TEDxPhoenix
Brenda Romero: Gaming for understanding
Brenda Brathwaite: 透過玩遊戲了解世界
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有效傳達複雜的歷史悲劇從來不是件簡單的事。所以當 Brenda Brathwite 的女兒下課後提出有關奴隸的問題時，她的反應是做她天天都在做的事: 設計一個遊戲。於 TEDxPhoenix，她描述這些遊戲如何有效地幫助玩家真正了解各個歷史故事。
(攝於 TEDxPhoenix)
Brenda Romero - Game designer
Brenda Romero designs games that turn some of history's most tragic lessons into interactive, emotional experiences. Full bio
Brenda Romero designs games that turn some of history's most tragic lessons into interactive, emotional experiences. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:12
When we think of games, there's all kinds of things.
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對於遊戲，每個人的感受都不同
00:14
Maybe you're ticked off, or maybe you're looking forward
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你可能興趣缺缺，也可能期待玩新遊戲
00:16
to a new game. You've been up too late playing a game.
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或者你為了玩遊戲而熬夜太久
00:18
All these things happen to me.
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這些經驗我都有過
00:20
But when we think about games, a lot of times we think
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但是一說到遊戲，大家常想到的就是
00:22
about stuff like this: first-person shooters, or the big,
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第一人稱射擊或是大受歡迎
00:24
what we would call AAA games,
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又稱為 AAA 的熱門遊戲
00:27
or maybe you're a Facebook game player.
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或者你玩的是 Facebook 遊戲
00:28
This is one my partner and I worked on.
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這就是我和我的夥伴以前做的一款遊戲
00:30
Maybe you play Facebook games, and that's what we're
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如果你玩的是 Facebook 遊戲，我們現在
00:31
making right now. This is a lighter form of game.
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正在製作這個規模較小的遊戲
00:34
Maybe you think about the tragically boring board games
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你也許想到無聊斃了的桌遊
00:37
that hold us hostage in Thanksgiving situations.
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那些感恩節時不得不玩的遊戲
00:40
This would be one of those tragically boring board games
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這可能就是窮極無聊的桌遊之一
00:42
that you can figure out.
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你可能已經想到了
00:44
Or maybe you're in your living room, you know,
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或者你在客廳裡
00:46
playing with the Wii with the kids, or something like that,
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跟小孩玩 Wii 或類似的遊戲
00:49
and, you know, there's this whole range of games,
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現在你知道遊戲的種類極多
00:51
and that's very much what I think about.
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而這些就是我每天在想的東西
00:53
I make my living from games. I've been lucky enough
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因為遊戲是我的職業
00:54
to do this since I was 15, which also qualifies
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我有幸在 15 歲那年就踏進這個產業
00:57
as I've never really had a real job.
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也就是說我至今沒做過一份真正的工作
00:59
But we think about games as fun, and that's completely
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遊戲在我們眼中就是好玩，這完全可以理解
01:02
reasonable, but let's just think about this.
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不過，我們來想想這些狀況
01:05
So this one here, this is the 1980 Olympics.
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這個是 1980 年奧運
01:07
Now I don't know where you guys were, but I was
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我不知道你們當年怎樣
01:09
in my living room. It was practically a religious event.
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但我可是以宗教般的狂熱在客廳裡鎖定電視
01:12
And this is when the Americans beat the Russians,
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這是當年美國打敗俄羅斯的瞬間
01:15
and this was -- yes, it was technically a game.
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真是難以言喻
對，運動也是一種遊戲
對，運動也是一種遊戲
01:17
Hockey is a game. But really, was this a game?
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冰上曲棍球也是種遊戲
但這真的只是一場遊戲嗎？
但這真的只是一場遊戲嗎？
01:20
I mean, people cried. I've never seen my mother cry
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我是說，觀眾都哭了耶
我從沒看過我媽
我從沒看過我媽
01:24
like that at the end of Monopoly.
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在玩完大富翁時哭
01:27
And so this was just an amazing experience.
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所以這真的是很震撼的體驗
01:29
Or, you know, if anybody here is from Boston --
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或者要是這裡有人來自波士頓
01:32
So when the Boston Red Sox won the World Series after,
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在波士頓紅襪隊贏得世錦賽
01:35
I believe, 351 years,
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終結我想是長達 351 年的飲恨紀錄時
01:39
when they won the World Series, it was amazing.
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他們贏得世錦賽的那一刻，極為美妙
01:41
I happened to be living in Springfield at the time,
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當時我剛好住在 Springfield
01:43
and the best part of it was -- is that --
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記得最棒的就是
01:46
you would close the women's door in the bathroom,
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在女廁關上門
01:49
and I remember seeing "Go Sox," and I thought, really?
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我記得都能看到「紅襪隊加油！」
我想不會吧？這也太誇張了！
我想不會吧？這也太誇張了！
01:51
Or the houses, you'd come out, because every game,
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連家裡都沒人在，因為每場比賽
01:54
well, I think almost every game, went into overtime, right?
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嗯，我想幾乎每場比賽都打到延長賽，對吧？
01:57
So we'd be outside, and all the other lights are on
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所以我們都在外面，整條街的燈都亮著
01:59
on the whole block, and kids, like, the attendance was down
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學校出席率也下降，連小孩也不例外
02:03
in school, and kids weren't going to school.
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因為孩子們不去上學
02:05
But it's okay, it's the Red Sox, right?
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但都沒關係，因為這是紅襪隊耶，對嗎？
02:07
I mean, there's education, and then there's the Red Sox,
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一邊是上學一邊是紅襪隊
02:09
and we know where they're stacked.
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在我們心中地位高下立判
02:11
So this was an amazing experience, and again, yes,
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所以這是很美好的經驗，而這也是
02:14
it was a game, but they didn't write newspaper articles,
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一場遊戲，即便報紙上沒報導
02:16
people didn't say -- you know, really, "I can die now
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當時人們說「我現在死而無憾」
02:19
because the Red Sox won." And many people did.
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「因為紅襪隊終於贏了」，許多人真是這樣想
02:22
So games, it means something more to us.
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因此遊戲，對我們的意義更深
02:26
It absolutely means something more.
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在我們心裡的意義比想像中複雜
02:27
So now, just, this is an abrupt transition here.
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現在讓我作個有點突兀的轉折
02:29
There was three years where I actually did have a real job, sort of.
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我曾經擁有一份認真的職位三年
02:32
I was the head of a college department
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我擔任某大學的系主任
02:35
teaching games, so, again, it was sort of a real job,
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教作遊戲，所以勉強算是認真的工作
02:37
and now I just got to talk about making as opposed to making them.
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只是我作有關遊戲的演講，而不是製作遊戲
02:40
And I was at a dinner. Part of the job of it, when you're
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有天我出席一個晚宴
02:42
a chair of a department, is to eat, and I did that very well,
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吃飯常是系主任的工作內容，我也超在行的
02:45
and so I'm out at a dinner with this guy called Zig Jackson.
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我正和一個叫 Zig Jackson 的人吃飯
02:49
So this is Zig in this photograph. This is also one of Zig's
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這是 Zig，這也是 Zig 照的相片
02:52
photographs. He's a photographer.
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他是位攝影家
02:53
And he goes all around the country taking pictures
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他走片全國到處攝影
02:56
of himself, and you can see here he's got
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在這張圖中是 Zig 的印地安部落
03:01
Zig's Indian Reservation. And this particular shot, this
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而這一張照片，算是比較傳統的構圖
03:05
is one of the more traditional shots. This is a rain dancer.
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這是一位祈雨舞者
03:09
And this is one of my favorite shots here.
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這是我最喜愛的照片之一
03:11
So you can look at this, and maybe you've even seen
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你也許看過類似的照片
03:13
things like this. This is an expression of culture, right?
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這是文化的表現，不是嗎?
03:16
And this is actually from his Degradation series.
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但這其實出自他的「羞辱」系列作品
03:19
And what was most fascinating to me about this series
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這系列作品讓我感興趣的昰
03:21
is just, look at that little boy there.
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看看那位小男孩
03:23
Can you imagine? Now let's, we can see that's a traditional
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想像一下，現在他是位美國印地安人
03:26
Native American. Now I just want to change that guy's race.
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現在我要更改他的種族
03:28
Just imagine if that's a black guy.
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想像他是位黑人
03:30
So, "Honey, come here, let's get your picture with the black guy."
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「親愛的，來和這位黑人照相」
03:33
Right? Like, seriously, nobody would do this.
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沒有任何人會這麼做
03:35
It baffles the mind. And so Zig, being Indian,
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如此行為令人不解
所以Zig，身為印地安人
所以Zig，身為印地安人
03:38
likewise it baffles his mind. His favorite photograph --
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一樣無法了解這種行為
他最喜歡的一張相片
他最喜歡的一張相片
03:41
my favorite photograph of his, which I don't have in here is
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也是我最愛的相片，我沒放在這裡
03:43
Indian taking picture of white people taking pictures
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是一位印第安人拍攝白人拍攝印地安人
03:46
of Indians. (Laughter)
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的照片 (笑聲)
03:49
So I happen to be at dinner with this photographer,
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所以我剛好和這位攝影師吃飯
03:51
and he was talking with another photographer
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而他正和另一位攝影師談話
03:53
about a shooting that had occurred,
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討論最近完成的攝影工作
03:55
and it was on an Indian reservation. He'd taken his camera
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工作地點是在印第安保留區
03:57
up there to photograph it, but when he got there,
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他帶了相機準備拍攝，但當他抵達時
04:00
he discovered he couldn't do it. He just couldn't capture
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他發現他做不到，他沒辦法按下快門
04:01
the picture. And so they were talking back and forth
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所以他們倆來回地討論這個問題
04:06
about this question. Do you take the picture or not?
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到底該不該照相?
04:08
And that was fascinating to me as a game designer,
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身為遊戲設計師，我對這話題極感興趣
04:11
because it never occurs to me, like, should I make
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因為我從來沒想過
04:12
the game about this difficult topic or not?
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我該不該創作有關敏感議題的遊戲?
04:15
Because we just make things that are fun or, you know,
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因為我們只是這做些好玩的東西而已
04:17
will make you feel fear, you know, that visceral excitement.
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或是讓人感到害怕、打從骨裡地興奮
04:21
But every other medium does it.
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但任何其它媒介都面臨這個難題
04:23
So this is my kid. This is Maezza, and when she was
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這是我女兒，她叫 Maezza
04:26
seven years old, she came home from school one day,
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她七歲那年，有一天從學校回來
04:28
and like I do every single day, I asked her,
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我一如過往地問 :
04:30
"What'd you do today?"
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妳今天在學校做了些什麼啊?
04:31
So she said, "We talked about the Middle Passage."
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她說 : 「今天老師教中間航道」
譯註: 中間航道 (Middle Passage) 奴隸貿易航線
譯註: 中間航道 (Middle Passage) 奴隸貿易航線
04:33
Now, this was a big moment. Maezza's dad is black,
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這一刻意義非凡，因為 Maezza 的爸爸是黑人
04:37
and I knew this day was coming. I wasn't expecting it
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我早知這一刻會到來，但沒想到她七歲就接觸到了
04:40
at seven. I don't know why, but I wasn't.
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我不知道為什麼，我覺得太早
04:42
Anyways, so I asked her, "How do you feel about that?"
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所以我問她 : 「那妳認為呢?」
04:45
So she proceeded to tell me, and so any of you
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她就跟我說，你們若也是家長
04:48
who are parents will recognize the bingo buzzwords here.
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一定會認出那些像賓果般的用詞
04:51
So the ships start in England, they come down
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她說: 那些船從英國起駛，往下走
04:52
from England, they go to Africa, they go across the ocean --
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到了非洲，再橫越海洋
04:55
that's the Middle Passage part — they come to America
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那就是中間航道的意思，然後抵達美國
04:57
where the slaves are sold, she's telling me.
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然後奴隸在美國被賣掉
04:59
But Abraham Lincoln was elected president, and then he
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但是林肯選上總統後
05:01
passed the Emancipation Proclamation, and now they're free.
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他通過解放奴隸宣言，然後他們就自由了
05:04
Pause for about 10 seconds.
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她頓了大概十秒
05:07
"Can I play a game, Mommy?"
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「媽咪，我可以去玩遊戲了嗎?」
05:08
And I thought, that's it? And so, you know,
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我心想，就這樣?
05:13
this is the Middle Passage, this is an incredibly significant
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這是中間航道，一個歷史意義重大的事件
05:16
event, and she's treating it like, basically some
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而她卻把它想成
05:19
black people went on a cruise, is more or less
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像是一群黑人
05:21
how it sounds to her. (Laughter)
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坐遊輪到處玩一般 (笑聲)
05:23
And so, to me, I wanted more value in this, so when
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對我而言，我希望這能更具意義
05:27
she asked if she could play a game, I said,
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所以當她問我可不可以玩遊戲時，我說
05:29
"Yes." (Laughter)
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「可以」(笑聲)
05:31
And so I happened to have all of these little pieces.
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我剛好有一些小零件
05:33
I'm a game designer, so I have this stuff sitting around my house.
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我是遊戲設計師，所以家裡一堆這類東西
05:36
So I said, "Yeah, you can play a game," and I give her
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我說:「我們來玩個遊戲」
05:38
a bunch of these, and I tell her to paint them
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我把零件給她，並讓她上色作為不同家庭
05:39
in different families. These are pictures of Maezza
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這是 Maezza 當時的照片
05:41
when she was — God, it still chokes me up seeing these.
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天啊，我現在看到依然哽咽
05:44
So she's painting her little families.
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所以她做好了這些小家庭
05:46
So then I grab a bunch of them and I put them on a boat.
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我拿了一些並把他們放在船上
05:49
This was the boat. It was made quickly obviously. (Laughter)
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這就是船，看得出是趕工出來的 (笑聲)
05:54
And so the basic gist of it is, I grabbed a bunch of families,
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所以基本上，我隨便抓一把不同家庭
05:56
and she's like, "Mommy, but you forgot the pink baby
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她說 : 「媽咪，你忘了粉紅色的寶寶
05:59
and you forgot the blue daddy
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和藍色的爸爸」
06:00
and you forgot all these other things."
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「你忘了其他的人」
06:01
And she says, "They want to go." And I said,
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「他們也想上船」
06:03
"Honey, no they don't want to go. This is the Middle Passage.
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我回答:「甜心，他們不會想走。這是中間航道」
06:05
Nobody wants to go on the Middle Passage."
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「沒人想渡過中間航道」
06:07
So she gave me a look that only a daughter
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於是她瞪了我一眼
06:09
of a game designer would give a mother,
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只有遊戲設計師的女兒會給媽媽這種臉色
06:11
and as we're going across the ocean, following these rules,
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於是我們依照遊戲規則，慢慢橫越海洋
06:14
she realizes that she's rolling pretty high, and she says
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她意識到她的花費太大
06:17
to me, "We're not going to make it."
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她跟我說:「我們到不了終點」
06:20
And she realizes, you know, we don't have enough food,
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她意識到船上的食物不夠吃了
06:22
and so she asks what to do, and I say,
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她問我該怎麼辦，我說:
06:25
"Well, we can either" -- Remember, she's seven --
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記得，她才七歲
06:27
"We can either put some people in the water
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「我們可以把一些人丟到水裡
06:29
or we can hope that they don't get sick
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或是我們可以寄望他們不會生病
06:30
and we make it to the other side."
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並勉強活的到彼岸。」
06:32
And she -- just the look on her face came over
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而她，她的臉整個垮了下來
06:35
and she said -- now mind you this is after a month of --
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她說， - - 記得，這是經過一整個月
06:37
this is Black History Month, right?
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一個月的「黑人歷史月」教育
06:40
After a month she says to me,
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她竟問我:
06:41
"Did this really happen?"
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「這些事是真的嗎?」
06:43
And I said, "Yes." And so she said, "So, if I came
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我說是。於是她說:
06:46
out of the woods" — this is her brother and sister — "If I came
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「如果我活的抵達， Avalon 和 Donovan 」
06:48
out of the woods, Avalon and Donovan might be gone."
"Yes."
"Yes."
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- -她的弟弟妹妹- -「他們可能會不見?」「是啊」
06:51
"But I'd get to see them in America."
"No."
"No."
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「但是我在美國就會看到他們了」「不會」
06:54
"But what if I saw them? You know, couldn't we stay together?"
"No."
"No."
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「我如果找到他們，我們可以在一起嗎?」「不行」
06:57
"So Daddy could be gone."
"Yes."
"Yes."
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「所以爸爸有可能會不見」「是啊」
06:59
And she was fascinated by this, and she started to cry,
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她入戯很深，開始哭了
07:02
and I started to cry, and her father started to cry,
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然後我也跟著哭，她爸爸也哭了
07:04
and now we're all crying. He didn't expect
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我們一家人哭成一團
07:05
to come home from work to the Middle Passage,
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他完全沒想到下班回家會遇上中間航道
07:07
but there it goes. (Laughter)
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但事經如此 (笑聲)
07:09
And so, we made this game, and she got it.
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所以經由玩遊戲，我女兒終於明白了
07:12
She got it because she spent time with these people.
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她之所以了解是因為她花時間和這些人相處
07:15
It wasn't abstract stuff in a brochure or in a movie.
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而不是像電影或教材中的抽象概念
07:18
And so it was just an incredibly powerful experience.
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所以才會是個如此難忘的經驗
07:21
This is the game, which I've ended up calling
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這個遊戲，我最後命名為「新世界」
07:23
The New World, because I like the phrase.
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純粹因為我喜歡這名字
07:25
I don't think the New World felt too new worldly exciting
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我並不以為，對於那些飄洋過海的黑奴來說
07:28
to the people who were brought over on slave ships.
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這新世界有任何值得興奮之處
07:30
But when this happened, I saw the whole planet.
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但是經由這個遊戲，我發現了一個全新世界
07:33
I was so excited. It was like, I'd been making games
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我好興奮。有如我雖然創作遊戲二十幾年了
07:35
for 20-some years, and then I decided to do it again.
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現在卻可以重新來過的熱情
07:38
My history is Irish.
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我祖先是愛爾蘭人
07:40
So this is a game called Síochán Leat. It's "peace be with you."
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這個遊戲名為 Síochán Leat
「願和平與你常在」
「願和平與你常在」
07:42
It's the entire history of my family in a single game.
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這遊戲涵蓋了我整個家族歷史
(譯註: 愛爾蘭移民史)
(譯註: 愛爾蘭移民史)
07:45
I made another game called Train.
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我創作了另一個遊戲叫做「火車」
07:47
I was making a series of six games
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我那時正在做一系列的六個遊戲
07:49
that covered difficult topics, and if you're going to cover
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專門探討令人難以啟齒的歷史議題
07:51
a difficult topic, this is one you need to cover,
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而這個議題正是急需討論的議題之一
07:53
and I'll let you figure out what that's about on your own.
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我讓你自己猜猜看「火車」的主題是什麼
07:57
And I also made a game about the Trail of Tears.
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我也做了一個關於「血淚之路」的遊戲
譯註: Trail of tears，印第安切羅基人受迫西遷
譯註: Trail of tears，印第安切羅基人受迫西遷
08:00
This is a game with 50,000 individual pieces.
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這是個包含五萬個元件的遊戲
08:03
I was crazy when I decided to start it,
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我決定開始做這遊戲時一定是瘋了
08:05
but I'm in the middle of it now.
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但是我現在仍在製作過程中
08:07
It's the same thing.
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這些遊戲都一樣
08:08
I'm hoping that I'll teach culture through these games.
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我希望能夠透過它們教導文化
08:10
And the one I'm working on right now, which is --
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而另一個我現在正在製作的遊戲，它是- -
08:12
because I'm right in the middle of it, and these for some reason choke me up like crazy --
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因為我正埋首其中，講一下我就會哽咽 --
08:15
is a game called Mexican Kitchen Workers.
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這個遊戲叫「墨西哥廚工」
08:17
And originally it was a math problem more or less.
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一開始它比較像是個數學問題
08:20
Like, here's the economics of illegal immigration.
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描述非法移民的經濟問題
08:22
And the more I learned about the Mexican culture --
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但是我對於墨西哥文化了解愈多 --
08:25
my partner is Mexican — the more I learned that,
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我的伴侶是墨裔 -- 我愈了解到
08:27
you know, for all of us, food is a basic need, but,
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對所有人而言，食物是基本需求
08:30
and it is obviously with Mexicans too, but it's much more than that.
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對墨西哥人來說含意更深
08:33
It's an expression of love. It's an expression of —
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它是一種愛的表示，它是一種 --
08:36
God, I'm totally choking up way more than I thought.
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天啊，我比預期中的還要容易想哭
08:39
I'll look away from the picture.
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我不要看照片好了
08:41
It's an expression of beauty. It's how they say they love you.
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它是一種美的表示，是他們說我愛你的方式
08:44
It's how they say they care, and you can't hear somebody
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他們的民族就是如此
08:46
talk about their Mexican grandmother
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你無法聽一個人描述他的墨西哥祖母
08:48
without saying "food" in the first sentence.
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而不在第一句提到「食物」二字
08:51
And so to me, this beautiful culture, this beautiful expression
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對我來說，這美麗的文化，美麗的表達方式
08:55
is something that I want to capture through games.
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就是我想要透過遊戲所傳達的
08:58
And so games, for a change, it changes how we see topics,
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所以遊戲能夠改變我們對事物的看法
09:01
it changes how our perceptions about those people
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改變我們對人們和議題的觀感
09:04
in topics, and it changes ourselves.
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並且改變我們本身
09:07
We change as people through games,
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透過遊戲，我們每一個人都會蛻變
09:09
because we're involved, and we're playing,
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因為我們參與其中，認真玩
09:11
and we're learning as we do so. Thank you. (Applause)
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並同時學習。謝謝。(掌聲)
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Brenda Romero - Game designerBrenda Romero designs games that turn some of history's most tragic lessons into interactive, emotional experiences.
Why you should listen
For decades, Brenda Romero has been a major figure in the field of game design. Famous for her work on the role-playing series Wizardry, she’s also known for her work on Def Jam: Icon, Playboy: The Mansion, and Dungeons & Dragons: Heroes. Inspired by her daughter in 2008, she began work on her non-digital series, The Mechanic Is the Message, dedicated to expressing difficult subjects through interactive media. Train, a game derived from the events of the Holocaust, won the Vanguard Award at Indiecade in October 2009.
Read TED's interview with Brenda Romero: "To understand inequality, let's play a game."
Brenda Romero | Speaker | TED.com