ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Karima Bennoune - Professor of international law
Karima Bennoune's new book introduces the world to people who speak out against fundamentalist terrorism.

Why you should listen

Karima Bennoune is a professor of international law at the University of California–Davis School of Law. She grew up in Algeria and the United States and now lives in northern California.

She has published widely in many leading academic journals, as well as in the Guardian, The New York Times, Comment is Free, the website of Al Jazeera English, The Nation. The topic of her most recent publication ‘Your Fatwa Does Not Apply Here’ is a very personal one for her. Her father Mahfoud Bennoune was an outspoken professor at the University of Algiers, and faced death threats during the 1990s, but continued speaking out against fundamentalism and terrorism. In writing this book, Karima set out to meet people who are today doing what her father did back then, to try to garner for them greater international support than Algerian democrats received during the 1990s.

She has served as a member of the Executive Council of the American Society of International Law and on the board of directors of Amnesty International USA. Currently, she sits on the Board of the Network of Women Living Under Muslim Laws. She has also been a consultant on human rights issues for the International Council on Human Rights Policy, the Soros Foundation, the Coalition to Stop the Use of Child Soldiers, and for the United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization (UNESCO). Her human rights field missions have included Afghanistan, Bangladesh, Fiji, Lebanon, Pakistan, South Korea, southern Thailand, and Tunisia.

She traveled to Algeria in February 2011 to serve as an observer at pro-democracy protests with the support of the Urgent Action Fund for Women’s Human Rights, writing a series of articles about these events for the Guardian. In October 2011, she volunteered as an election observer during the Tunisian constituent assembly elections with Gender Concerns International.

More profile about the speaker
Karima Bennoune | Speaker | TED.com
TEDxExeter

Karima Bennoune: When people of Muslim heritage challenge fundamentalism

Filmed:
1,504,177 views

Karima Bennoune shares four powerful stories of real people fighting against fundamentalism in their own communities — refusing to allow the faith they love to become a tool for crime, attacks and murder. These personal stories humanize one of the most overlooked human-rights struggles in the world.
- Professor of international law
Karima Bennoune's new book introduces the world to people who speak out against fundamentalist terrorism. Full bio

Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.

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Could I protect my father
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from the Armed Islamic Group with a paring knife?
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That was the question I faced
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one Tuesday morning in June of 1993,
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when I was a law student.
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I woke up early that morning
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in Dad's apartment
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on the outskirts of Algiers, Algeria,
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to an unrelenting pounding on the front door.
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It was a season as described by a local paper
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when every Tuesday a scholar fell
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to the bullets of fundamentalist assassins.
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My father's university teaching of Darwin
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had already provoked a classroom visit
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from the head of the so-called
Islamic Salvation Front,
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who denounced Dad as an advocate of biologism
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before Dad had ejected the man,
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and now whoever was outside
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would neither identify himself nor go away.
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So my father tried to get the police on the phone,
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but perhaps terrified by the rising tide
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of armed extremism that had already claimed
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the lives of so many Algerian officers,
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they didn't even answer.
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And that was when I went to the kitchen,
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got out a paring knife,
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and took up a position inside the entryway.
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It was a ridiculous thing to do, really,
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but I couldn't think of anything else,
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and so there I stood.
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When I look back now, I think
that that was the moment
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that set me on the path was to writing a book
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called "Your Fatwa Does Not Apply Here:
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Untold Stories from the Fight
Against Muslim Fundamentalism."
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The title comes from a Pakistani play.
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I think it was actually that moment
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that sent me on the journey
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to interview 300 people of Muslim heritage
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from nearly 30 countries,
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from Afghanistan to Mali,
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to find out how they fought fundamentalism
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peacefully like my father did,
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and how they coped with the attendant risks.
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Luckily, back in June of 1993,
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our unidentified visitor went away,
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but other families were so much less lucky,
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and that was the thought
that motivated my research.
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In any case, someone would return
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a few months later and leave a note
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on Dad's kitchen table,
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which simply said, "Consider yourself dead."
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Subsequently, Algeria's
fundamentalist armed groups
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would murder as many as 200,000 civilians
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in what came to be known
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as the dark decade of the 1990s,
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including every single one
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of the women that you see here.
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In its harsh counterterrorist response,
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the state resorted to torture
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and to forced disappearances,
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and as terrible as all of these events became,
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the international community largely ignored them.
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Finally, my father, an Algerian
peasant's son turned professor,
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was forced to stop teaching at the university
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and to flee his apartment,
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but what I will never forget
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about Mahfoud Bennoune, my dad,
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was that like so many other Algerian intellectuals,
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he refused to leave the country
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and he continued to publish pointed criticisms,
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both of the fundamentalists
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and sometimes of the government they battled.
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For example, in a November 1994 series
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in the newspaper El Watan
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entitled "How Fundamentalism
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Produced a Terrorism without Precedent,"
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he denounced what he called
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the terrorists' radical break with the true Islam
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as it was lived by our ancestors.
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These were words that could get you killed.
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My father's country taught me
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in that dark decade of the 1990s that
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the popular struggle against Muslim fundamentalism
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is one of the most important
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and overlooked human rights struggles
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in the world.
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This remains true today, nearly 20 years later.
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You see, in every country
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where you hear about armed jihadis
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targeting civilians,
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there are also unarmed people
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defying those militants that you don't hear about,
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and those people need our support to succeed.
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In the West, it's often assumed
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that Muslims generally condone terrorism.
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Some on the right think this because they view
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Muslim culture as inherently violent,
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and some on the left imagine this
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because they view Muslim violence,
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fundamentalist violence,
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solely as a product of legitimate grievances.
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But both views are dead wrong.
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In fact, many people of Muslim heritage
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around the world are staunch opponents
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both of fundamentalism and of terrorism,
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and often for very good reason.
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You see, they're much more likely to be victims
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of this violence than its perpetrators.
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Let me just give you one example.
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According to a 2009 survey
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of Arabic language media resources,
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between 2004 and 2008,
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no more than 15 percent of al Qaeda's victims
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were Westerners.
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That's a terrible toll, but the vast majority
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were people of Muslim heritage,
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killed by Muslim fundamentalists.
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Now I've been talking for the last five minutes
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about fundamentalism, and you have a right to know
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exactly what I mean.
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I cite the definition given by the Algerian sociologist
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Marieme Helie Lucas,
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and she says that fundamentalisms,
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note the "s," so within all of the world's
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great religious traditions,
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"fundamentalisms are political
movements of the extreme right
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which in a context of globalization
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manipulate religion in order to achieve
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their political aims."
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Sadia Abbas has called this the radical politicization
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of theology.
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Now I want to avoid projecting the notion
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that there's sort of a monolith out there
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called Muslim fundamentalism
that is the same everywhere,
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because these movements
also have their diversities.
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Some use and advocate violence.
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Some do not, though they're often interrelated.
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They take different forms.
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Some may be non-governmental organizations,
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even here in Britain like Cageprisoners.
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Some may become political parties,
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like the Muslim Brotherhood,
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and some may be openly armed groups
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like the Taliban.
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But in any case, these are all radical projects.
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They're not conservative or traditional approaches.
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They're most often about changing
people's relationship with Islam
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rather than preserving it.
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What I am talking about is the Muslim extreme right,
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and the fact that its adherents are
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or purport to be Muslim
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makes them no less offensive
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than the extreme right anywhere else.
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So in my view, if we consider ourselves
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liberal or left-wing,
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human rights-loving or feminist,
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we must oppose these movements
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and support their grassroots opponents.
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Now let me be clear
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that I support an effective struggle
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against fundamentalism,
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but also a struggle that must itself
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respect international law,
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so nothing I am saying should be taken
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as a justification for refusals
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to democratize,
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and here I send out a shout-out of support
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to the pro-democracy movement
in Algeria today, Barakat.
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Nor should anything I say be taken
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as a justification of violations of human rights,
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like the mass death sentences
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handed out in Egypt earlier this week.
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But what I am saying
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is that we must challenge these
Muslim fundamentalist movements
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because they threaten human rights
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across Muslim-majority contexts,
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and they do this in a range of ways,
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most obviously with the direct attacks on civilians
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by the armed groups that carry those out.
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But that violence is just the tip of the iceberg.
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These movements as a whole purvey discrimination
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against religious minorities and sexual minorities.
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They seek to curtail the freedom of religion
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of everyone who either practices in a different way
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or chooses not to practice.
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And most definingly, they lead an all-out war
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on the rights of women.
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Now, faced with these movements
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in recent years, Western discourse
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has most often offered
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two flawed responses.
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The first that one sometimes finds on the right
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suggests that most Muslims are fundamentalist
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or something about Islam is
inherently fundamentalist,
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and this is just offensive and wrong,
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but unfortunately on the left
one sometimes encounters
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a discourse that is too politically correct
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to acknowledge the problem of
Muslim fundamentalism at all
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or, even worse, apologizes for it,
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and this is unacceptable as well.
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So what I'm seeking is a new way
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of talking about this all together,
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which is grounded in the lived experiences
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and the hope of the people on the front lines.
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I'm painfully aware that there has been
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an increase in discrimination
against Muslims in recent years
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in countries like the U.K. and the U.S.,
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and that too is a matter of grave concern,
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but I firmly believe
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that telling these counter-stereotypical stories
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of people of Muslim heritage
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who have confronted the fundamentalists
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and been their primary victims
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is also a great way of countering that discrimination.
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So now let me introduce you
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to four people whose stories
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I had the great honor of telling.
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Faizan Peerzada and the Rafi Peer Theatre
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workshop named for his father
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have for years promoted the performing arts
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in Pakistan.
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With the rise of jihadist violence,
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they began to receive threats
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to call off their events, which they refused to heed.
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And so a bomber struck their 2008
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eighth world performing arts festival in Lahore,
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producing rain of glass
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that fell into the venue
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injuring nine people,
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and later that same night,
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the Peerzadas made a very difficult decision:
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they announced that their festival
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would continue as planned the next day.
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As Faizan said at the time,
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if we bow down to the Islamists,
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we'll just be sitting in a dark corner.
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But they didn't know what would happen.
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Would anyone come?
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In fact, thousands of people came out the next day
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to support the performing arts in Lahore,
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and this simultaneously thrilled
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and terrified Faizan,
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and he ran up to a woman
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who had come in with her two small children,
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and he said, "You do know there
was a bomb here yesterday,
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10:05
and you do know there's a threat here today."
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10:07
And she said, "I know that,
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but I came to your festival
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with my mother when I was their age,
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and I still have those images in my mind.
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We have to be here."
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With stalwart audiences like this,
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the Peerzadas were able to conclude
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their festival on schedule.
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And then the next year,
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they lost all of their sponsors
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due to the security risk.
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So when I met them in 2010,
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they were in the middle of the first subsequent event
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that they were able to have in the same venue,
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and this was the ninth youth performing arts festival
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held in Lahore in a year when that city
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had already experienced 44 terror attacks.
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This was a time when the Pakistani Taliban
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had commenced their systematic targeting
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of girls' schools that would culminate
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in the attack on Malala Yousafzai.
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What did the Peerzadas do in that environment?
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They staged girls' school theater.
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So I had the privilege of watching "Naang Wal,"
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which was a musical in the Punjabi language,
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and the girls of Lahore Grammar School
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played all the parts.
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They sang and danced,
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they played the mice and the water buffalo,
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and I held my breath, wondering,
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would we get to the end
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of this amazing show?
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And when we did, the whole audience
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collectively exhaled,
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and a few people actually wept,
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and then they filled the auditorium
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with the peaceful boom of their applause.
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And I remember thinking in that moment
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that the bombers made headlines here
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two years before
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but this night and these people
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are as important a story.
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Maria Bashir is the first and only
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11:52
woman chief prosecutor in Afghanistan.
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3124
11:56
She's been in the post since 2008
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2214
11:58
and actually opened an office to investigate
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2186
12:00
cases of violence against women,
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12:02
which she says is the most important area
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12:04
in her mandate.
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12:06
When I meet her in her office in Herat,
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12:09
she enters surrounded by
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12:11
four large men with four huge guns.
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3366
12:14
In fact, she now has 23 bodyguards,
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12:17
because she has weathered bomb attacks
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1420
12:18
that nearly killed her kids,
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1678
12:20
and it took the leg off of one of her guards.
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3351
12:23
Why does she continue?
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2110
12:26
She says with a smile that that is the question
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2654
12:28
that everyone asks—
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2047
12:30
as she puts it, "Why you risk not living?"
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3825
12:34
And it is simply that for her,
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1639
12:36
a better future for all the Maria Bashirs to come
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12:39
is worth the risk,
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1484
12:41
and she knows that if people like her
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1710
12:42
do not take the risk,
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1915
12:44
there will be no better future.
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2297
12:47
Later on in our interview,
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12:48
Prosecutor Bashir tells me how worried she is
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12:51
about the possible outcome
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1519
12:52
of government negotiations with the Taliban,
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2499
12:55
the people who have been trying to kill her.
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2394
12:57
"If we give them a place in the government,"
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1752
12:59
she asks, "Who will protect women's rights?"
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13:02
And she urges the international community
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2366
13:04
not to forget its promise about women
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2632
13:07
because now they want peace with Taliban.
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3827
13:11
A few weeks after I leave Afghanistan,
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2205
13:13
I see a headline on the Internet.
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2875
13:16
An Afghan prosecutor has been assassinated.
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3605
13:20
I google desperately,
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2136
13:22
and thankfully that day I find out
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1674
13:23
that Maria was not the victim,
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2086
13:25
though sadly, another Afghan prosecutor
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2223
13:28
was gunned down on his way to work.
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2031
13:30
And when I hear headlines like that now,
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2995
13:33
I think that as international troops
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2298
13:35
leave Afghanistan this year and beyond,
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3048
13:38
we must continue to care
333
806521
1906
13:40
about what happens to people there,
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1433
13:41
to all of the Maria Bashirs.
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3026
13:44
Sometimes I still hear her voice in my head
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812886
2613
13:47
saying, with no bravado whatsoever,
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3081
13:50
"The situation of the women of Afghanistan
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2605
13:53
will be better someday.
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1906
13:55
We should prepare the ground for this,
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2235
13:57
even if we are killed."
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2943
14:01
There are no words adequate
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1648
14:03
to denounce the al Shabaab terrorists
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1976
14:05
who attacked the Westgate Mall in Nairobi
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2262
14:07
on the same day as a children's cooking competition
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3462
14:11
in September of 2013.
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2418
14:13
They killed 67, including poets and pregnant women.
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4499
14:18
Far away in the American Midwest,
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2099
14:20
I had the good fortune of meeting Somali-Americans
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2347
14:22
who were working to counter
the efforts of al Shabaab
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2848
14:25
to recruit a small number of young people
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853413
2224
14:27
from their city of Minneapolis
352
855637
1944
14:29
to take part in atrocities like Westgate.
353
857581
3698
14:33
Abdirizak Bihi's studious
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861279
1960
14:35
17-year-old nephew Burhan Hassan
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863239
2889
14:38
was recruited here in 2008,
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2648
14:40
spirited to Somalia,
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1760
14:42
and then killed when he tried to come home.
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870536
3370
14:45
Since that time, Mr. Bihi,
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873906
1594
14:47
who directs the no-budget Somali
Education and Advocacy Center,
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875500
4253
14:51
has been vocally denouncing the recruitment
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879753
2451
14:54
and the failures of government
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882204
1856
14:56
and Somali-American institutions
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2219
14:58
like the Abubakar As-Saddique Islamic Center
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3025
15:01
where he believes his nephew was radicalized
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2231
15:03
during a youth program.
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2106
15:05
But he doesn't just criticize the mosque.
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2153
15:07
He also takes on the government
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1579
15:09
for its failure to do more
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1785
15:11
to prevent poverty in his community.
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2498
15:13
Given his own lack of financial resources,
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2289
15:15
Mr. Bihi has had to be creative.
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2311
15:18
To counter the efforts of al Shabaab
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1894
15:20
to sway more disaffected youth,
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2385
15:22
in the wake of the group's 2010 attack
375
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2435
15:24
on World Cup viewers in Uganda,
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2594
15:27
he organized a Ramadan basketball tournament
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3340
15:30
in Minneapolis in response.
378
918904
2532
15:33
Scores of Somali-American kids came out
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2684
15:36
to embrace sport
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924120
1388
15:37
despite the fatwa against it.
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925508
2492
15:40
They played basketball
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928000
1745
15:41
as Burhan Hassan never would again.
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3867
15:45
For his efforts, Mr. Bihi has been ostracized
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933612
2650
15:48
by the leadership of the Abubakar
As-Saddique Islamic Center,
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3072
15:51
with which he used to have good relations.
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939334
2565
15:53
He told me, "One day we saw the imam on TV
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2386
15:56
calling us infidels and saying,
388
944285
2058
15:58
'These families are trying to destroy the mosque.'"
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3569
16:01
This is at complete odds
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1411
16:03
with how Abdirizak Bihi understands
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2533
16:05
what he is trying to do
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1800
16:07
by exposing al Shabaab recruitment,
393
955656
2406
16:10
which is to save the religion I love
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958062
2422
16:12
from a small number of extremists.
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3126
16:16
Now I want to tell one last story,
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2561
16:19
that of a 22-year-old law student in Algeria
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3014
16:22
named Amel Zenoune-Zouani
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970513
1946
16:24
who had the same dreams of a legal career
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972459
1879
16:26
that I did back in the '90s.
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974338
2702
16:29
She refused to give up her studies,
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977040
1929
16:30
despite the fact that the fundamentalists
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978969
1969
16:32
battling the Algerian state back then
403
980938
2530
16:35
threatened all who continued their education.
404
983468
3622
16:39
On January 26, 1997, Amel boarded the bus
405
987090
4110
16:43
in Algiers where she was studying
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991200
1922
16:45
to go home and spend a Ramadan evening
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993122
2183
16:47
with her family,
408
995305
1689
16:48
and would never finish law school.
409
996994
2386
16:51
When the bus reached the outskirts
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1460
16:52
of her hometown, it was stopped
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1775
16:54
at a checkpoint manned by men
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2142
16:56
from the Armed Islamic Group.
413
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2294
16:59
Carrying her schoolbag,
414
1007051
1729
17:00
Amel was taken off the bus
415
1008780
1986
17:02
and killed in the street.
416
1010766
2589
17:05
The men who cut her throat
417
1013355
1136
17:06
then told everyone else,
418
1014491
1850
17:08
"If you go to university,
419
1016341
1894
17:10
the day will come when we will kill all of you
420
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2554
17:12
just like this."
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1020789
3231
17:16
Amel died at exactly 5:17 p.m.,
422
1024020
2700
17:18
which we know because when she fell in the street,
423
1026720
2848
17:21
her watch broke.
424
1029568
1777
17:23
Her mother showed me the watch
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1031345
1229
17:24
with the second hand still aimed
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1032574
2001
17:26
optimistically upward
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1034575
1496
17:28
towards a 5:18 that would never come.
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1036071
3436
17:31
Shortly before her death,
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1039507
1149
17:32
Amel had said to her mother of herself
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1040656
1855
17:34
and her sisters,
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1887
17:36
"Nothing will happen to us, Inshallah, God willing,
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1044398
3617
17:40
but if something happens,
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1048015
1870
17:41
you must know that we are dead for knowledge.
434
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2883
17:44
You and father must keep your heads held high."
435
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4210
17:48
The loss of such a young woman is unfathomable,
436
1056978
3982
17:52
and so as I did my research
437
1060960
1555
17:54
I found myself searching for Amel's hope again
438
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3254
17:57
and her name even means "hope" in Arabic.
439
1065769
2937
18:00
I think I found it in two places.
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1068706
3251
18:03
The first is in the strength of her family
441
1071957
2295
18:06
and all the other families to
continue telling their stories
442
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3266
18:09
and to go on with their lives despite the terrorism.
443
1077518
3065
18:12
In fact, Amel's sister Lamia overcame her grief,
444
1080583
3282
18:15
went to law school,
445
1083865
1371
18:17
and practices as a lawyer in Algiers today,
446
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2754
18:19
something which is only possible
447
1087990
1601
18:21
because the armed fundamentalists
448
1089591
1189
18:22
were largely defeated in the country.
449
1090780
2878
18:25
And the second place I found Amel's hope
450
1093658
2847
18:28
was everywhere that women and men
451
1096505
2472
18:30
continue to defy the jihadis.
452
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2695
18:33
We must support all of those in honor of Amel
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3258
18:36
who continue this human rights struggle today,
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2633
18:39
like the Network of Women
Living Under Muslim Laws.
455
1107563
3997
18:43
It is not enough, as the victims rights advocate
456
1111560
2627
18:46
Cherifa Kheddar told me in Algiers,
457
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1887
18:48
it is not enough just to battle terrorism.
458
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3065
18:51
We must also challenge fundamentalism,
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2544
18:53
because fundamentalism is the ideology
460
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2437
18:56
that makes the bed of this terrorism.
461
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2591
18:58
Why is it that people like her, like all of them
462
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3439
19:02
are not more well known?
463
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1694
19:03
Why is it that everyone knows
who Osama bin Laden was
464
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3277
19:07
and so few know of all of those
465
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1933
19:09
standing up to the bin Ladens in their own contexts.
466
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3693
19:12
We must change that, and so I ask you
467
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2657
19:15
to please help share these stories
468
1143404
1768
19:17
through your networks.
469
1145172
1773
19:18
Look again at Amel Zenoune's watch,
470
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2099
19:21
forever frozen,
471
1149044
1660
19:22
and now please look at your own watch
472
1150704
2362
19:25
and decide this is the moment that you commit
473
1153066
3024
19:28
to supporting people like Amel.
474
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1908
19:29
We don't have the right to be silent about them
475
1157998
2381
19:32
because it is easier
476
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1498
19:33
or because Western policy is flawed as well,
477
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2861
19:36
because 5:17 is still coming
478
1164738
2336
19:39
to too many Amel Zenounes
479
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1867
19:40
in places like northern Nigeria,
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1168941
1970
19:42
where jihadis still kill students.
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2576
19:45
The time to speak up in support of all of those
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3081
19:48
who peacefully challenge fundamentalism
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2308
19:50
and terrorism in their own communities
484
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2964
19:53
is now.
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1536
19:55
Thank you.
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2283
19:57
(Applause)
487
1185659
2506

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ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Karima Bennoune - Professor of international law
Karima Bennoune's new book introduces the world to people who speak out against fundamentalist terrorism.

Why you should listen

Karima Bennoune is a professor of international law at the University of California–Davis School of Law. She grew up in Algeria and the United States and now lives in northern California.

She has published widely in many leading academic journals, as well as in the Guardian, The New York Times, Comment is Free, the website of Al Jazeera English, The Nation. The topic of her most recent publication ‘Your Fatwa Does Not Apply Here’ is a very personal one for her. Her father Mahfoud Bennoune was an outspoken professor at the University of Algiers, and faced death threats during the 1990s, but continued speaking out against fundamentalism and terrorism. In writing this book, Karima set out to meet people who are today doing what her father did back then, to try to garner for them greater international support than Algerian democrats received during the 1990s.

She has served as a member of the Executive Council of the American Society of International Law and on the board of directors of Amnesty International USA. Currently, she sits on the Board of the Network of Women Living Under Muslim Laws. She has also been a consultant on human rights issues for the International Council on Human Rights Policy, the Soros Foundation, the Coalition to Stop the Use of Child Soldiers, and for the United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization (UNESCO). Her human rights field missions have included Afghanistan, Bangladesh, Fiji, Lebanon, Pakistan, South Korea, southern Thailand, and Tunisia.

She traveled to Algeria in February 2011 to serve as an observer at pro-democracy protests with the support of the Urgent Action Fund for Women’s Human Rights, writing a series of articles about these events for the Guardian. In October 2011, she volunteered as an election observer during the Tunisian constituent assembly elections with Gender Concerns International.

More profile about the speaker
Karima Bennoune | Speaker | TED.com