TED2003
Dan Dennett: The illusion of consciousness
Dan Dennett o našoj svijesti
Filmed:
Readability: 3.2
3,868,782 views
Filozof Dan Dennett uvjerljivo tvrdi kako ne samo da ne razumijemo vlastitu svijest, već nas i većinu vremena naš mozak aktivno zavarava.
Dan Dennett - Philosopher, cognitive scientist
Dan Dennett thinks that human consciousness and free will are the result of physical processes. Full bio
Dan Dennett thinks that human consciousness and free will are the result of physical processes. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:26
So I'm going to speak about a problem that I have
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Danas ću govoriti o problemu kojeg imam
00:29
and that's that I'm a philosopher.
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a taj je da sam filozof.
00:32
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
00:34
When I go to a party and people ask me what do I do
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Kada odem na zabavu i ljudi me pitaju čime se bavim
00:37
and I say, "I'm a professor," their eyes glaze over.
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i kažem im "ja sam profesor", odmah prestanu slušati.
00:42
When I go to an academic cocktail party
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Kada otiđem na akademsku koktelsku zabavu
00:44
and there are all the professors around, they ask me what field I'm in
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na kojoj su samo profesori, pitaju me kojim se poljem znanosti bavim
00:48
and I say, "philosophy" -- their eyes glaze over.
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i ja im kažem filozofijom -- odmah prestanu slušati.
00:51
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
00:53
When I go to a philosopher's party
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Kada odem na zabavu filozofa
00:56
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
00:59
and they ask me what I work on and I say, "consciousness,"
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i kada me pitaju na čemu radim i ja im kažem na svijesti,
01:03
their eyes don't glaze over -- their lips curl into a snarl.
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oni ne prestanu slušati -- već prijezirno frknu nosom.
01:08
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
01:09
And I get hoots of derision and cackles and growls
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Dobijem brdo prezira i hihotanja i gunđanja
01:15
because they think, "That's impossible! You can't explain consciousness."
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jer smatraju "To je nemoguće! Svijest se ne može objasniti".
01:20
The very chutzpah of somebody thinking
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Sama drskost vaše pomisli
01:22
that you could explain consciousness is just out of the question.
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da biste mogli objasniti svijest ne dolazi u obzir.
01:26
My late, lamented friend Bob Nozick, a fine philosopher,
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Moj pokojni, neprežaljeni prijatelj Bob Nozick, odličan filozof,
01:30
in one of his books, "Philosophical Explanations,"
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u jednoj od svojih knjiga, "Filozofska objašnjenja",
01:34
is commenting on the ethos of philosophy --
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tumači bit filozofije --
01:39
the way philosophers go about their business.
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način na koji filozofi rade svoj posao.
01:41
And he says, you know, "Philosophers love rational argument."
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I kaže, "Filozofi vole racionalan argument".
01:45
And he says, "It seems as if the ideal argument
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"Čini se kako je idealan argument,
01:47
for most philosophers is you give your audience the premises
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većini filozofa, dati publici premise,
01:53
and then you give them the inferences and the conclusion,
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a zatim inferencije i zaključak,
01:58
and if they don't accept the conclusion, they die.
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a ako ne prihvate zaključak moraju umrijeti.
02:02
Their heads explode." The idea is to have an argument
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Glave im eksplodiraju". Zamisao je da imate argument
02:05
that is so powerful that it knocks out your opponents.
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koji je toliko jak da obori vaše suparnike.
02:09
But in fact that doesn't change people's minds at all.
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Zapravo, time uopće nećete promijeniti ničije mišljenje.
02:12
It's very hard to change people's minds
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Vrlo je teško promijeniti nečije mišljenje
02:13
about something like consciousness,
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oko nečeg kao što je svijest,
02:15
and I finally figured out the reason for that.
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i konačno sam otkrio razlog tome.
02:20
The reason for that is that everybody's an expert on consciousness.
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Razlog tome je što su svi stručnjaci po pitanju svijesti.
02:24
We heard the other day that everybody's got a strong opinion about video games.
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Neki smo dan čuli kako svi imaju čvrsti stav što se tiče video igrica.
02:28
They all have an idea for a video game, even if they're not experts.
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Svi imaju neko mišljenje o video igricama, čak ako i nisu stručnjaci.
02:31
But they don't consider themselves experts on video games;
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No ne smatraju se stručnjacima po pitanju video igrica,
02:34
they've just got strong opinions.
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već samo imaju čvrsta mišljenja.
02:35
I'm sure that people here who work on, say, climate change
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Siguran sam da ljudi koji se bave recimo klimatskim promjenama
02:40
and global warming, or on the future of the Internet,
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i globalnim zagrijavanjem, ili budućnošću Interneta,
02:45
encounter people who have very strong opinions
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susreću ljude koji imaju čvrst stav
02:47
about what's going to happen next.
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oko toga što će se sljedeće dogoditi.
02:50
But they probably don't think of these opinions as expertise.
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Samo što oni ne tumače ta mišljenja kao stručna.
02:54
They're just strongly held opinions.
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To su samo uvriježena mišljenja.
02:56
But with regard to consciousness, people seem to think,
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No, što se tiče svijesti, ljudi misle,
03:00
each of us seems to think, "I am an expert.
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svatko od nas misli, "Ja sam stručnjak.
03:03
Simply by being conscious, I know all about this."
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Već samim time što sam svjestan znam sve o tome."
03:06
And so, you tell them your theory and they say,
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I kada im iznesete svoju teoriju, oni kažu,
03:08
"No, no, that's not the way consciousness is!
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"Ne, ne, svijest ne funkcionira tako!
03:09
No, you've got it all wrong."
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Ne, to ste sve pogrešno shvatili".
03:11
And they say this with an amazing confidence.
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I kažu vam to s nevjerojatnom količinom pouzdanja.
03:15
And so what I'm going to try to do today
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Danas ću pokušati
03:17
is to shake your confidence. Because I know the feeling --
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pokolebati vaše uvjerenje. Zato što mi je poznat taj osjećaj --
03:20
I can feel it myself.
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i sam ga mogu osjetiti.
03:22
I want to shake your confidence that you know your own innermost minds --
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Želim pokolebati vaše uvjerenje da poznajete svoje najdublje misli --
03:28
that you are, yourselves, authoritative about your own consciousness.
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da vi sami vladate svojom svijesti.
03:33
That's the order of the day here.
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To je plan programa za danas.
03:36
Now, this nice picture shows a thought-balloon, a thought-bubble.
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Ova slika prikazuje misaoni oblak. Misaoni oblačić.
03:39
I think everybody understands what that means.
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Mislim da svi razumijemo što to znači.
03:41
That's supposed to exhibit the stream of consciousness.
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On bi trebao pokazivati struju svijesti.
03:44
This is my favorite picture of consciousness that's ever been done.
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Ovo je moja omiljena slika svijesti.
03:46
It's a Saul Steinberg of course -- it was a New Yorker cover.
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Autor je, naravno, Saul Steinberg -- i bila je na naslovnici New Yorkera.
03:49
And this fellow here is looking at the painting by Braque.
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Ovaj čovjek tu gleda Braqueovu sliku.
03:54
That reminds him of the word baroque, barrack, bark, poodle,
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To ga je podsjetilo na riječ barok, baraka, lavež, pudlica,
03:58
Suzanne R. -- he's off to the races.
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Suzanne R. -- njegov mozak radi sto na sat.
04:00
There's a wonderful stream of consciousness here
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Ovo je predivan prikaz struje svijesti
04:04
and if you follow it along, you learn a lot about this man.
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i ako ju pratite saznat ćete puno o ovom čovjeku.
04:08
What I particularly like about this picture, too,
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Ono što mi se osobito sviđa kod ove slike
04:10
is that Steinberg has rendered the guy
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je to da je Steinberg nacrtao ovog čovjeka
04:12
in this sort of pointillist style.
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na neki način poentilističkim stilom.
04:15
Which reminds us, as Rod Brooks was saying yesterday:
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Što nas podsjeća, kao što je Rod Brooks rekao jučer:
04:18
what we are, what each of us is -- what you are, what I am --
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da smo mi, da je svatko od nas -- da ste vi, da sam ja --
04:22
is approximately 100 trillion little cellular robots.
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približno 100 trilijuna malih staničnih robota.
04:28
That's what we're made of.
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Od toga se sastojimo.
04:30
No other ingredients at all. We're just made of cells, about 100 trillion of them.
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Bez drugih dodataka. Sastojimo se samo od stanica, i to oko 100 trilijuna njih.
04:34
Not a single one of those cells is conscious;
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Niti jedna od tih stanica nije svjesna,
04:36
not a single one of those cells knows who you are, or cares.
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niti jedna od njih ne zna tko ste vi, niti ju je briga.
04:41
Somehow, we have to explain
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Nekako moramo objasniti
04:43
how when you put together teams, armies, battalions
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kako to da kada spojimo timove, vojske, bataljune
04:47
of hundreds of millions of little robotic unconscious cells --
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stotina milijuna malih nesvjesnih robotskih stanica --
04:51
not so different really from a bacterium, each one of them --
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svaka od njih ne toliko različita od bakterije --
04:55
the result is this. I mean, just look at it.
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rezultat je ovo. Mislim, samo pogledajte.
04:59
The content -- there's color, there's ideas, there's memories,
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Taj sadržaj -- tu su boje, ideje, sjećanja,
05:03
there's history. And somehow all that content of consciousness
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povijest. I nekako je sav taj sadržaj svijesti
05:07
is accomplished by the busy activity of those hoards of neurons.
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postignut aktivnošću gomila tih neurona.
05:12
How is that possible? Many people just think it isn't possible at all.
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Kako je to moguće? Mnogi smatraju kako to uopće nije moguće.
05:16
They think, "No, there can't be any
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Misle, "Ne, ne može postojati nikakvo
05:18
sort of naturalistic explanation of consciousness."
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prirodoznanstveno objašnjenje svijesti".
05:22
This is a lovely book by a friend of mine named Lee Siegel,
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Ovo je divna knjiga mog prijatelja Leeja Siegela,
05:25
who's a professor of religion, actually, at the University of Hawaii,
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profesora religije na Sveučilištu Havaja,
05:28
and he's an expert magician, and an expert
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on je stručnjak na polju magije, i stručnjak
05:30
on the street magic of India, which is what this book is about,
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indijske ulične magije, o čemu je zapravo riječ u njegovoj knjizi
05:34
"Net of Magic."
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"Mreža magije".
05:36
And there's a passage in it which I would love to share with you.
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U knjizi je odlomak koji bih rado podijelio s vama.
05:39
It speaks so eloquently to the problem.
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Vrlo se uvjerljivo dotiče ovog problema.
05:45
"'I'm writing a book on magic,' I explain, and I'm asked, 'Real magic?'
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"Pišem knjigu o magiji", kažem i pitaju me "Pravoj magiji?"
05:50
By 'real magic,' people mean miracles,
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Pod pravom magijom ljudi smatraju čuda,
05:52
thaumaturgical acts, and supernatural powers.
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čudotvorna djela i nadprirodne moći.
05:54
'No,' I answer. 'Conjuring tricks, not real magic.'
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"Ne", odgovaram. "O običnim trikovima, ne o pravoj magiji".
05:58
'Real magic,' in other words, refers to the magic that is not real;
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Prava se magija, drugim riječima, odnosi na magiju koja nije prava,
06:02
while the magic that is real, that can actually be done, is not real magic."
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dok je magija koja jest prava, koja se može izvesti, nije prava magija".
06:07
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
06:11
Now, that's the way a lot of people feel about consciousness.
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Na isti način mnogi ljudi doživljavaju svijest.
06:15
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
06:16
Real consciousness is not a bag of tricks.
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Stvaran svijet nije tek vreća smicalica.
06:18
If you're going to explain this as a bag of tricks,
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Ako ćete ju objasniti kao vreću smicalica
06:20
then it's not real consciousness, whatever it is.
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to onda nije prava svijest, što god da jest.
06:23
And, as Marvin said, and as other people have said,
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I kao što je Marvin rekao, a isto su rekli i drugi,
06:29
"Consciousness is a bag of tricks."
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"Svijest je vreća smicalica".
06:32
This means that a lot of people are just left completely dissatisfied
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To znači da mnogi ljudi ostanu posve nezadovoljni
06:37
and incredulous when I attempt to explain consciousness.
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i skeptični kada im pokušavam objasniti svijest.
06:40
So this is the problem. So I have to
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Dakle to je problem. Moram se potruditi
06:43
do a little bit of the sort of work
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odraditi mali dio posla
06:46
that a lot of you won't like,
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koji se većini vas neće svidjeti,
06:50
for the same reason that you don't like to see
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iz istog razloga iz kojeg ne želite
06:52
a magic trick explained to you.
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da vam se objasni mađioničarski trik.
06:54
How many of you here, if somebody -- some smart aleck --
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Koliko vas, kada vam netko -- neki pametnjaković --
06:58
starts telling you how a particular magic trick is done,
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počinje objašnjavati kako određeni trik funkcionira,
07:01
you sort of want to block your ears and say, "No, no, I don't want to know!
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samo želi pokriti uši i reći "Ne, ne, ne želim znati!
07:04
Don't take the thrill of it away. I'd rather be mystified.
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Nemoj mi pokvariti uzbuđenje. Neka ostane tajna.
07:07
Don't tell me the answer."
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Nemoj mi odati tajnu trika".
07:10
A lot of people feel that way about consciousness, I've discovered.
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Otkrio sam da se mnogo ljudi isto tako ponaša kada je riječ o svijesti.
07:13
And I'm sorry if I impose some clarity, some understanding on you.
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I žao mi je ako ću vam nametnuti jasnoću, neko razumijevanje.
07:19
You'd better leave now if you don't want to know some of these tricks.
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Bolje da otiđete sada ako ne želite znati tajnu nekih trikova.
07:24
But I'm not going to explain it all to you.
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Ali neću vam sve objasniti.
07:28
I'm going to do what philosophers do.
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Napravit ću ono što rade filozofi.
07:31
Here's how a philosopher explains the sawing-the-lady-in-half trick.
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Evo kako filozofi objašnjavanju trik rezanja žena na pola.
07:37
You know the sawing-the-lady-in-half trick?
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Znate trik rezanja žene na pola?
07:39
The philosopher says, "I'm going to explain to you how that's done.
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Filozof kaže, "Objasnit ću ti kako se to radi.
07:43
You see, the magician doesn't really saw the lady in half."
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Znaš, mađioničar zapravo ne razreže ženu na pola."
07:48
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
07:50
"He merely makes you think that he does."
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"Samo te uvjeri kako je to napravio".
07:54
And you say, "Yes, and how does he do that?"
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A vi kažete, "Da, ali kako je to učinio?"
07:55
He says, "Oh, that's not my department, I'm sorry."
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On kaže, "Ma, to nije moje područje, žao mi je".
07:57
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
08:02
So now I'm going to illustrate how philosophers explain consciousness.
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Sada ću vam razjasniti kako filozofi objašnjavaju svijest.
08:05
But I'm going to try to also show you
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Isto tako ću vam nastojati pokazati
08:08
that consciousness isn't quite as marvelous --
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da svijest i nije tako čudesna --
08:11
your own consciousness isn't quite as wonderful --
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vaša svijest nije toliko predivna --
08:13
as you may have thought it is.
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koliko vi mislite da jest.
08:15
This is something, by the way, that Lee Siegel talks about in his book.
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Uzgred rečeno, o ovome govori Lee Siegel u svojoj knjizi.
08:19
He marvels at how he'll do a magic show, and afterwards
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Divi se tome kako kada napravi mađioničarsku predstavu, ljudi se
08:23
people will swear they saw him do X, Y, and Z. He never did those things.
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poslije kunu kako su ga vidjeli da je napravio X, Y i Z. Stvari koje nikada nije učinio.
08:27
He didn't even try to do those things.
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Nije niti pokušao napraviti te stvari.
08:29
People's memories inflate what they think they saw.
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Ljudsko sjećanje preuveliča ono što misli da je vidjelo.
08:33
And the same is true of consciousness.
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Isto je i sa svijesti.
08:36
Now, let's see if this will work. All right. Let's just watch this.
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Da vidimo hoće li ovo raditi. Dobro. Pogledajmo ovo.
08:43
Watch it carefully.
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Pažljivo gledajte.
08:56
I'm working with a young computer-animator documentarian
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Radim s mladim dokumentaristom koji se bavi kompjuterskom animacijom
08:59
named Nick Deamer, and this is a little demo that he's done for me,
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Nickom Deamerom, a ovo je mala demonstracija koju je napravio za mene,
09:04
part of a larger project some of you may be interested in.
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dio je većeg projekta za koji će neki od vas biti zainteresirani.
09:07
We're looking for a backer.
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Tražimo sponzora.
09:10
It's a feature-length documentary on consciousness.
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Radi se o dugomentražnom dokumentarcu o svijesti.
09:14
OK, now, you all saw what changed, right?
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Dobro, svi ste vidjeli što se promijenilo, zar ne?
09:20
How many of you noticed that every one of those squares changed color?
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Koliko je vas primijetilo kako je svaki od kvadrata promijenio boju?
09:25
Every one. I'll just show you by running it again.
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Svi. Pokazat ću vam još jednom.
09:34
Even when you know that they're all going to change color,
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Čak i kada znate da će promijeniti boju,
09:39
it's very hard to notice. You have to really concentrate
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vrlo je teško to i primijetiti. Stvarno se morate koncentrirati
09:43
to pick up any of the changes at all.
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da biste zapazili bilo kakve promjene.
09:46
Now, this is an example -- one of many --
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Ovo je primjer -- jedan od mnogih --
09:51
of a phenomenon that's now being studied quite a bit.
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pojave kojom se sada znanstvenici mnogo bave.
09:53
It's one that I predicted in the last page or two of my
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Pojava je to koju sam predvidio na zadnjim stranicama
09:57
1991 book, "Consciousness Explained,"
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svoje knjige "Objašnjenja svijest" iz 1991. godine.,
09:59
where I said if you did experiments of this sort,
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gdje sam objasnio, ukoliko se naprave ovakve vrste pokusa,
10:02
you'd find that people were unable to pick up really large changes.
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otkrit će se da ljudi nisu sposobni primijetiti vrlo velike promjene.
10:05
If there's time at the end,
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Ako ćemo imati vremena na kraju
10:07
I'll show you the much more dramatic case.
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pokazat ću vam puno drastičnije primjere.
10:10
Now, how can it be that there are all those changes going on,
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Kako je moguće da se ove promjene događaju,
10:15
and that we're not aware of them?
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ali mi nismo njih svjesni?
10:18
Well, earlier today, Jeff Hawkins mentioned the way your eye saccades,
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Ranije je Jeff Hawkins spomenuo način na koji oči trzaju,
10:23
the way your eye moves around three or four times a second.
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način na koji se pokreću tri ili četiri puta u sekundi.
10:26
He didn't mention the speed. Your eye is constantly in motion,
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Nije spomenuo brzinu. Vaše su oči u neprestanom pokretu,
10:29
moving around, looking at eyes, noses, elbows,
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kreću se, gledaju oči, noseve, laktove,
10:32
looking at interesting things in the world.
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gledaju zanimljive stvari na svijetu.
10:34
And where your eye isn't looking,
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Tamo, kamo vaše oči ne gledaju
10:36
you're remarkably impoverished in your vision.
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nevjerojatno ste zakinuti na vidnom polju.
10:39
That's because the foveal part of your eye,
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To je zato što je fovealni dio oka,
10:42
which is the high-resolution part,
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dio koji je zadužen za oštar vid,
10:44
is only about the size of your thumbnail held at arms length.
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veličine nokta na palcu kada ga držite na dužini ispružene ruke.
10:47
That's the detail part.
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Taj je dio zadužen za detalje.
10:49
It doesn't seem that way, does it?
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Ne čini nam se tako, zar ne?
10:52
It doesn't seem that way, but that's the way it is.
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Ne čini nam se, ali zapravo jest tako.
10:54
You're getting in a lot less information than you think.
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Dobivate mnogo manje informacija nego što mislite.
10:58
Here's a completely different effect. This is a painting by Bellotto.
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Sada, posve suprotan učinak. Ovo je Bellottova slika.
11:04
It's in the museum in North Carolina.
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Ovo je iz muzeja u Sjevernoj Karolini.
11:06
Bellotto was a student of Canaletto's.
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Bellotto je bio Canalettov učenik.
11:09
And I love paintings like that --
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Volim ovakve slike --
11:10
the painting is actually about as big as it is right here.
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slika je približno iste veličine kao i ovdje.
11:14
And I love Canalettos, because Canaletto has this fantastic detail,
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Volim Canalettova djela jer je Canaletto fantastičan po pitanju detalja,
11:17
and you can get right up
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i možete se posve približiti
11:20
and see all the details on the painting.
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i vidjeti detalje na slici.
11:23
And I started across the hall in North Carolina,
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Krenuo sam preko dvorane u Sjevernoj Karolini,
11:28
because I thought it was probably a Canaletto,
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jer sam mislio kao se radi o Canalettovom djelu,
11:30
and would have all that in detail.
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i imat će sve te detalje.
11:32
And I noticed that on the bridge there, there's a lot of people --
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Primijetio sam kako se ondje na mostu nalazi mnogo ljudi --
11:35
you can just barely see them walking across the bridge.
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jedva da ih možete vidjeti kako prelaze preko mosta.
11:38
And I thought as I got closer
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Kako sam se približavao, pomislio sam
11:39
I would be able to see all the detail of most people,
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da ću vidjeti detalje većine ljudi
11:42
see their clothes, and so forth.
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vidjeti njihovu odjeću, i tako dalje.
11:44
And as I got closer and closer, I actually screamed.
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Kako sam se sve više približio, stvarno sam vrisnuo.
11:48
I yelled out because when I got closer,
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Uzviknuo sam jer kada sam se približio
11:50
I found the detail wasn't there at all.
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otkrio sam da detalja uopće nema.
11:54
There were just little artfully placed blobs of paint.
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Na slici su bile samo malene mrlje boje.
11:58
And as I walked towards the picture,
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Kako sam se približavao slici
12:01
I was expecting detail that wasn't there.
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očekivao sam detalje kojih nije bilo.
12:04
The artist had very cleverly suggested people and clothes
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Umjetnik je vrlo vješto sugerirao ljude i odjeću
12:09
and wagons and all sorts of things,
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i teretna kola i razne stvari na slici,
12:12
and my brain had taken the suggestion.
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a moj je mozak prihvatio njegovu sugestiju.
12:15
You're familiar with a more recent technology, which is -- There,
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Upoznati ste sa suvremenijom tehnologijom, koja je -- ovdje.
12:21
you can get a better view of the blobs.
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Možete bolje vidjeti mrlje.
12:23
See, when you get close
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Kada se približite
12:25
they're really just blobs of paint.
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zapravo vidite mrlje bolje.
12:30
You will have seen something like this -- this is the reverse effect.
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Zacijelo ste vidjeli nešto ovakvo -- ovo je obrnuti učinak.
12:44
I'll just give that to you one more time.
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Pokazat ću vam to još jednom.
12:47
Now, what does your brain do when it takes the suggestion?
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Što vaš mozak radi kada prihvati sugestiju?
12:54
When an artful blob of paint or two, by an artist,
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Kada mrlja boje ili dvije, napravljene od strane umjetnika,
12:59
suggests a person -- say, one of
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sugeriraju osobu -- primjerice
13:05
Marvin Minsky's little society of mind --
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kao u društvu uma Marvina Minskyja --
13:07
do they send little painters out to fill in all the details in your brain somewhere?
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pošalju li se i maleni slikari koji tada upotpune detalje negdje u vašem mozgu?
13:12
I don't think so. Not a chance. But then, how on Earth is it done?
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Ne bih rekao. Nema šanse. Ali, zaboga, što se onda događa?
13:17
Well, remember the philosopher's explanation of the lady?
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Sjećate se filozofskog objašnjenja trika s rezanjem žene?
13:22
It's the same thing.
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Ista je stvar.
13:25
The brain just makes you think that it's got the detail there.
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Mozak vas uvjeri kako ondje postoje detalji.
13:28
You think the detail's there, but it isn't there.
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Vi mislite kako su detalji ondje, ali zapravo nisu.
13:31
The brain isn't actually putting the detail in your head at all.
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Mozak uopće ne stavlja detalje u vaš glavu.
13:34
It's just making you expect the detail.
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On očekuje da vi pretpostavite detalje.
13:37
Let's just do this experiment very quickly.
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Napravimo jedan pokus vrlo brzo.
13:40
Is the shape on the left the same as the shape on the right, rotated?
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Je li, rotirano, oblik s lijeve strane jednak obliku s desne strane?
13:45
Yes.
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Da.
13:47
How many of you did it by rotating the one on the left
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Koliko vas je to zaključilo rotirajući oblik s lijeve stane
13:49
in your mind's eye, to see if it matched up with the one on the right?
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u svojoj glavi, kako biste vidjeli da li se slaže s onim na desnoj strani?
13:52
How many of you rotated the one on the right? OK.
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Koliko vas je rotiralo oblik s desne strane? U redu.
13:56
How do you know that's what you did?
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Kako znate da ste upravo to učinili?
13:58
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
14:01
There's in fact been a very interesting debate
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Zapravo, postoji zanimljiva rasprava u kognitivnoj znanosti
14:03
raging for over 20 years in cognitive science --
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koja traje već 20 godina --
14:06
various experiments started by Roger Shepherd,
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započeo ju je Roger Shepherd raznim pokusima,
14:08
who measured the angular velocity of rotation of mental images.
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koji su mjerili kutnu brzinu rotacije mentalnih slika.
14:13
Yes, it's possible to do that.
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Da, moguće je to napraviti.
14:15
But the details of the process are still in significant controversy.
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Međutim, detalji tog procesa još su uvijek vrlo kontroverzni.
14:22
And if you read that literature, one of the things
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Ako ste čitali literaturu o tome, jedna od stvari
14:25
that you really have to come to terms with is
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s kojom ćete se morati pomiriti
14:28
even when you're the subject in the experiment, you don't know.
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čak ako ste bili sudionik pokusa, je ta da jednostavno ne znate.
14:30
You don't know how you do it.
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Ne znate kako ste to napravili.
14:32
You just know that you have certain beliefs.
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Samo znate da imate određena uvjerenja.
14:35
And they come in a certain order, at a certain time.
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I ona prate određen redoslijed, u određeno vrijeme.
14:38
And what explains the fact that that's what you think?
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I to objašnjava činjenicu kako je to ono što vi mislite?
14:40
Well, that's where you have to go backstage and ask the magician.
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Pa sad, trebali biste otići iza kulisa i pitati to međioničara.
14:44
This is a figure that I love: Bradley, Petrie, and Dumais.
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Ovo je slika koju volim: Bradley, Petrie i Dumais.
14:48
You may think that I've cheated,
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Vjerojatno mislite kako sam varao,
14:50
that I've put a little whiter-than-white boundary there.
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da sam stavio nešto svjetlije bijele granice ovdje.
14:55
How many of you see that sort of boundary,
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Koliko vas vidi takvu granicu,
14:57
with the Necker cube floating in front of the circles?
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s Neckerovom kockom kako pluta ispred krugova?
15:00
Can you see it?
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Vidite li?
15:02
Well, you know, in effect, the boundary's really there, in a certain sense.
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Znate, u biti, u određenom smislu, granica postoji.
15:07
Your brain is actually computing that boundary,
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Vaš mozak je zapravo pretpostavio tu granicu,
15:10
the boundary that goes right there.
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granicu koja ide ovdje.
15:15
But now, notice there are two ways of seeing the cube, right?
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Primijetite kako postoje dva načina gledanja kocke, zar ne?
15:17
It's a Necker cube.
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To je Neckerova kocka.
15:19
Everybody can see the two ways of seeing the cube? OK.
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Svi vidite dva načina promatranje kocke? Dobro.
15:23
Can you see the four ways of seeing the cube?
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Vidite li četiri načina gledanja kocke?
15:27
Because there's another way of seeing it.
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Postoji još jedan način gledanja.
15:29
If you're seeing it as a cube floating in front of some circles,
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Ako ju promatrate kao kocku koja lebdi ispred nekih krugova,
15:32
some black circles, there's another way of seeing it.
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crnih krugova, postoji još jedan način promatranja.
15:35
As a cube, on a black background,
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Kao kocku na crnoj pozadini,
15:37
as seen through a piece of Swiss cheese.
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koju kao da gledate kroz komad švicarskog sira.
15:39
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
15:42
Can you get it? How many of you can't get it? That'll help.
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Vidite li? Koliko vas možete ovo primijetiti? Ovo će pomoći.
15:48
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
15:50
Now you can get it. These are two very different phenomena.
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Vidite li sada. Ovo su dvije vrlo različite pojave.
15:55
When you see the cube one way, behind the screen,
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Kada gledate kocku na jedan način, iza ekrana,
16:01
those boundaries go away.
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granice nestaju.
16:03
But there's still a sort of filling in, as we can tell if we look at this.
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Ali postoji neka vrsta popunjavanja, koju možemo primijetiti ako pogledamo ovo.
16:08
We don't have any trouble seeing the cube, but where does the color change?
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Vidimo kocku bez problema, ali gdje se događa promjena boje?
16:12
Does your brain have to send little painters in there?
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Mora li mozak poslati male slikare?
16:15
The purple-painters and the green-painters
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Grimizne i zelene slikare
16:17
fight over who's going to paint that bit behind the curtain? No.
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koji se bore oko toga koji će obojit dio iza zastora? Ne.
16:20
Your brain just lets it go. The brain doesn't need to fill that in.
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Mozak to samo pusti. On ne mora to popuniti.
16:29
When I first started talking about
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Kada sam prvi puta pričao o
16:32
the Bradley, Petrie, Dumais example that you just saw --
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Bradley, Petrie i Dumais primjeru, koji ste upravo vidjeli --
16:36
I'll go back to it, this one --
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vratit ću mu se, ovome --
16:40
I said that there was no filling-in behind there.
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rekao sam da ne postoji pozadinsko popunjavanje.
16:47
And I supposed that that was just a flat truth, always true.
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Pretpostavio sam da je to čista istina, bez greške.
16:50
But Rob Van Lier has recently shown that it isn't.
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Međutim, Rob Van Lier je nedavno pokazao kako to nije tako.
16:55
Now, if you think you see some pale yellow --
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Ako mislite kako vidite neku blijedo žutu --
17:00
I'll run this a few more times.
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pustit ću to još nekoliko puta.
17:02
Look in the gray areas,
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Pogledajte siva područja,
17:06
and see if you seem to see something sort of shadowy moving in there --
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pokušajte vidjeti da li se nešto sjenovito kreće tamo --
17:11
yeah, it's amazing. There's nothing there. It's no trick.
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da! Nevjerojatno. Tamo nema ničega. To nije trik.
17:18
["Failure to Detect Changes in Scenes" slide]
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[ "Nesposobnost primjećivanja promjena kod slika"]
17:24
This is Ron Rensink's work, which was in some degree
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Ovo je djelo Rona Rensinka, koje je jednim djelom
17:26
inspired by that suggestion right at the end of the book.
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inspirirano onim prijedlogom na kraju knjige.
17:30
Let me just pause this for a second if I can.
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Samo da zaustavim ovo na trenutak, ako je to moguće.
17:32
This is change-blindness.
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Ovo se naziva sljepoća za promjene.
17:34
What you're going to see is two pictures,
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Vidjet ćete dvije slike
17:36
one of which is slightly different from the other.
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od kojih se jedna neznatno razlikuje od druge.
17:38
You see here the red roof and the gray roof,
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Ovdje vidite crveni krov i smeđi krov,
17:41
and in between them there will be a mask,
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i između njih će biti maska,
17:43
which is just a blank screen, for about a quarter of a second.
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što je zapravo prazan ekran, u trajanju četvrtine sekunde.
17:47
So you'll see the first picture, then a mask,
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Znači, prvo ćete vidjeti sliku, a zatim masku.
17:49
then the second picture, then a mask.
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Zatim drugu sliku, pa masku.
17:51
And this will just continue, and your job as the subject
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Taj slijed će se nastaviti, a vaš posao kao sudionika
17:55
is to press the button when you see the change.
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je da pritisnete gumb kada vidite promjenu.
17:58
So, show the original picture for 240 milliseconds. Blank.
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Znači, 240 milisekundi prikaži originalnu sliku. Prazno.
18:06
Show the next picture for 240 milliseconds. Blank.
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Pokaži sljedeću sliku 240 milisekundi. Prazno.
18:12
And keep going, until the subject presses the button, saying,
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I nastavi taj slijed sve dok sudionik ne pritisne gumb i kaže
18:16
"I see the change."
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"vidim promjenu".
18:18
So now we're going to be subjects in the experiment.
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Sada ćemo biti sudionici tog pokusa.
18:21
We're going to start easy. Some examples.
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Počet ćemo s lakšim primjerima. Neki primjeri.
18:30
No trouble there.
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Tu nema problema.
18:32
Can everybody see? All right.
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Svi vidite? Dobro.
18:35
Indeed, Rensink's subjects took only a little bit more
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Rensinkovim sudionicima je trebalo malo više
18:39
than a second to press the button.
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od sekunde za pritisak gumba.
18:46
Can you see that one?
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Vidite li ovu?
18:55
2.9 seconds.
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2,9 sekundi.
19:04
How many don't see it still?
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Koliko vas još uvijek ne vidi?
19:07
What's on the roof of that barn?
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Što je na krovu te staje?
19:09
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
19:20
It's easy.
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Ovo je lagano.
19:46
Is it a bridge or a dock?
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Je li ovo most ili dok?
19:52
There are a few more really dramatic ones, and then I'll close.
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Još par vrlo dramatičnih, pa ćemo završiti.
19:56
I want you to see a few that are particularly striking.
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Želim vam pokazati nekoliko vrlo upečatljivih.
20:00
This one because it's so large and yet it's pretty hard to see.
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Ovu jer je vrlo velika, a opet je teško primijetiti razliku.
20:07
Can you see it?
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Vidite li?
20:10
Audience: Yes.
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Publika: Da.
20:12
Dan Dennett: See the shadows going back and forth? Pretty big.
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Vidite kako se sjene miču naprijed natrag? Zaista veliko.
20:23
So 15.5 seconds is the median time
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Prosječno je vrijeme bilo 15 i pol sekundi
20:27
for subjects in his experiment there.
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za sudionike njegova pokusa.
20:29
I love this one. I'll end with this one,
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Volim ovu. Završit ću s njom
20:32
just because it's such an obvious and important thing.
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samo zato što je tako očita i važna stvar.
20:37
How many still don't see it? How many still don't see it?
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Koliko vas još uvijek ne vidi? Koliko vas još uvijek ne vidi?
20:43
How many engines on the wing of that Boeing?
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Koliko je motora na krilu tog Boeinga?
20:46
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
20:47
Right in the middle of the picture!
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Točno u sredini fotografije!
20:53
Thanks very much for your attention.
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Hvala vam na pozornosti.
20:54
What I wanted to show you is that scientists,
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Želio sam vam pokazati kako vam znanstvenici,
20:59
using their from-the-outside, third-person methods,
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koristeći izvanjske, metode trećeg lica,
21:03
can tell you things about your own consciousness
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mogu reći stvari o vašoj svijesti,
21:05
that you would never dream of,
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stvari o kojima ne biste ni sanjali.
21:07
and that, in fact, you're not the authority
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I da zapravo vi ne vladate
21:09
on your own consciousness that you think you are.
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svojom svijesti onoliko koliko mislite da vladate.
21:11
And we're really making a lot of progress
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Mnogo napredujemo
21:13
on coming up with a theory of mind.
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u stvaranju teorije uma.
21:16
Jeff Hawkins, this morning, was describing his attempt
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Jutros je Jeff Hawkins opisivao svoj pokušaj
21:22
to get theory, and a good, big theory, into the neuroscience.
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stvaranje teorije, i to dobre sveobuhvatne teorije, neuroznanosti.
21:26
And he's right. This is a problem.
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U pravu je. Ovo jest problem.
21:31
Harvard Medical School once -- I was at a talk --
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Ravnatelj laboratorija Harvardske škole medicine --
21:33
director of the lab said, "In our lab, we have a saying.
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na govoru na kojem sam bio -- je rekao "U našem laboratoriju
21:37
If you work on one neuron, that's neuroscience.
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imamo uzrečicu. Ako radite ne jednom neuronu to je neuroznanost.
21:40
If you work on two neurons, that's psychology."
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Ako radite na dva neurona, onda je to psihologija".
21:43
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
21:47
We have to have more theory, and it can come as much from the top down.
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Potrebno nam je više teorije, a do nje možemo doći raščlanjivanjem i analizom.
21:50
Thank you very much.
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Hvala vam najljepša.
21:52
(Applause)
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(Pljesak)
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Dan Dennett - Philosopher, cognitive scientistDan Dennett thinks that human consciousness and free will are the result of physical processes.
Why you should listen
One of our most important living philosophers, Dan Dennett is best known for his provocative and controversial arguments that human consciousness and free will are the result of physical processes in the brain. He argues that the brain's computational circuitry fools us into thinking we know more than we do, and that what we call consciousness — isn't. His 2003 book "Freedom Evolves" explores how our brains evolved to give us -- and only us -- the kind of freedom that matters, while 2006's "Breaking the Spell" examines belief through the lens of biology.
This mind-shifting perspective on the mind itself has distinguished Dennett's career as a philosopher and cognitive scientist. And while the philosophy community has never quite known what to make of Dennett (he defies easy categorization, and refuses to affiliate himself with accepted schools of thought), his computational approach to understanding the brain has made him, as Edge's John Brockman writes, “the philosopher of choice of the AI community.”
“It's tempting to say that Dennett has never met a robot he didn't like, and that what he likes most about them is that they are philosophical experiments,” Harry Blume wrote in the Atlantic Monthly in 1998. “To the question of whether machines can attain high-order intelligence, Dennett makes this provocative answer: ‘The best reason for believing that robots might some day become conscious is that we human beings are conscious, and we are a sort of robot ourselves.'"
In recent years, Dennett has become outspoken in his atheism, and his 2006 book Breaking the Spell calls for religion to be studied through the scientific lens of evolutionary biology. Dennett regards religion as a natural -- rather than supernatural -- phenomenon, and urges schools to break the taboo against empirical examination of religion. He argues that religion's influence over human behavior is precisely what makes gaining a rational understanding of it so necessary: “If we don't understand religion, we're going to miss our chance to improve the world in the 21st century.”
Dennett's landmark books include The Mind's I, co-edited with Douglas Hofstaedter, Consciousness Explained, and Darwin's Dangerous Idea. Read an excerpt from his 2013 book, Intuition Pumps, in the Guardian >>
Dan Dennett | Speaker | TED.com