TEDxRiodelaPlata
Cristina Domenech: Poetry that frees the soul
Kristina Domenek (Cristina Domenech): Poezija koja oslobađa dušu
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"Kažu, da biste bili pesnik, morate se bar jednom spustiti u pakao." Kristina Domenek vodi radionice kreativnog pisanja u jednom argentinskom zatvoru i priča dirljivu priču o tome kako pomaže zatvorenicima da se izraze, da razumeju sami sebe... i da uživaju u slobodi reči. Obratite pažnju na snažan nastup jednog od njenih učenika, jednog od zatvorenika, pred publikom od 10 000 ljudi.
Cristina Domenech - Poet and educator
Cristina Domenech proposes to use language as an instrument of liberation and as a way to change the world. Full bio
Cristina Domenech proposes to use language as an instrument of liberation and as a way to change the world. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:14
It's said that to be a poet
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Kažu, da biste bili pesnik,
morate se bar jednom spustiti u pakao.
morate se bar jednom spustiti u pakao.
00:18
you have to go to hell and back.
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Prvi put kada sam ušla u zatvor,
nije me iznenadila buka katanaca
nije me iznenadila buka katanaca
00:24
The first time I visited the prison,
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00:27
I was not surprised by the noise
of the padlocks,
of the padlocks,
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ni vrata koja su se zatvarala, ni rešetke,
00:32
or the closing doors,
or the cell bars,
or the cell bars,
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ni bilo šta što sam očekivala.
00:36
or by any of the things
I had imagined.
I had imagined.
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Možda zato što se zatvor nalazi
na prilično otvorenom prostoru.
na prilično otvorenom prostoru.
00:40
Maybe because the prison
is in a quite open space.
is in a quite open space.
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00:45
You can see the sky.
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Vidi se nebo.
Galebovi preleću i verujete
da je more tu pored vas.
da je more tu pored vas.
00:47
Seagulls fly overhead,
and you feel like you're next to the sea,
and you feel like you're next to the sea,
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Da ste veoma blizu plaže.
00:51
that you're really close to the beach.
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Ali, u stvari, galebovi dolaze
da jedu smeće u blizini zatvora.
da jedu smeće u blizini zatvora.
00:54
But in fact, the gulls are looking
for food in the dump near the prison.
for food in the dump near the prison.
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01:01
I went farther inside and I suddenly saw
inmates moving across the corridors.
inmates moving across the corridors.
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Ulazeći, iznenada sam ugledala zatvorenike
kako se kreću po paviljonima, kruže.
kako se kreću po paviljonima, kruže.
01:07
Then it was as if I stepped back
and thought
and thought
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Kao da sam se osvrnula i pomislila
da sam mogla savršeno
da budem jedna od njih.
da budem jedna od njih.
01:11
that I could have very well been
one of them.
one of them.
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Da sam imala drugačiju prošlost,
drugačije okolnosti, drugu sreću.
drugačije okolnosti, drugu sreću.
01:15
If I had another story,
another context, different luck.
another context, different luck.
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Jer niko, niko ne može da bira
mesto gde će da se rodi.
mesto gde će da se rodi.
01:22
Because nobody - nobody -
can choose where they're born.
can choose where they're born.
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01:29
In 2009, I was invited to join a project
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Godine 2009. su me pozvali
da učestvujem u jednom projektu
da učestvujem u jednom projektu
01:34
that San Martín National University
conducted at the Unit 48 penitentiary,
conducted at the Unit 48 penitentiary,
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koji je sprovodio Nacionalni univerzitet
iz San Martina unutar Odeljenja 48,
iz San Martina unutar Odeljenja 48,
01:39
to coordinate a writing workshop.
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kako bih vodila
radionicu kreativnog pisanja.
radionicu kreativnog pisanja.
01:43
The prison service ceded some land
at the end of the prison,
at the end of the prison,
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Zatvorski servis je ustupio deo prostora
u pozadini zatvora
u pozadini zatvora
01:49
which is where they constructed
the University Center building.
the University Center building.
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i baš tu su sagradili zgradu
univerzitetskog centra.
univerzitetskog centra.
01:56
The first time I met with the prisoners,
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Prvi put
kad sam se susrela sa zatvorenicima,
kad sam se susrela sa zatvorenicima,
01:58
I asked them why they were asking
for a writing workshop
for a writing workshop
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upitala sam ih zašto su zahtevali
radionicu kreativnog pisanja,
radionicu kreativnog pisanja,
i rekli su mi kako su poželeli
da stave na papir
da stave na papir
02:02
and they told me they wanted
to put on paper
to put on paper
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sve ono što nisu mogli da kažu
i što nisu mogli da urade.
i što nisu mogli da urade.
02:05
all that they couldn't say and do.
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Tada sam odlučila da želim
da donesem poeziju u zatvor.
da donesem poeziju u zatvor.
02:11
Right then I decided that I wanted poetry
to enter the prison.
to enter the prison.
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Pa sam ih upitala,
zašto ne bismo radili s poezijom,
zašto ne bismo radili s poezijom,
02:17
So I said to them
why don't we work with poetry,
why don't we work with poetry,
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02:21
if they knew what poetry was.
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ako znaju šta je poezija.
Niko pojma nije imao
šta je uistinu poezija.
šta je uistinu poezija.
02:23
But nobody had a clue
what poetry really was.
what poetry really was.
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Pritom su mi predložili da radionica
02:30
They also suggested to me
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02:32
that the workshop should be
not just for the inmates
not just for the inmates
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ne bude isključivo za zatvorenike
koji su pohađali fakultet,
koji su pohađali fakultet,
02:34
taking university classes,
but for all the inmates.
but for all the inmates.
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već i da uključi sve stanovnike
iz zatvorske zajednice.
iz zatvorske zajednice.
Onda sam rekla,
da bismo započeli ovu radionicu
da bismo započeli ovu radionicu
02:40
And so I said
that to start this workshop,
that to start this workshop,
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02:43
I needed to find a tool
that we all had in common.
that we all had in common.
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potrebno mi je neko oruđe dostupno svima.
02:47
That tool was language.
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A to oruđe je bio jezik.
Imali smo jezik, imali smo radionicu.
Mogli smo da imamo poeziju.
Mogli smo da imamo poeziju.
02:50
We had language, we had the workshop.
We could have poetry.
We could have poetry.
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02:56
But what I hadn't considered
was that inequality exists in prison, too.
was that inequality exists in prison, too.
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Ali nisam računala na to
da nejednakost počiva i u zatvoru,
da nejednakost počiva i u zatvoru,
03:02
Many of the prisoners hadn't even
completed grammar school.
completed grammar school.
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i da mnogi od njih
nisu završili ni osnovnu školu.
nisu završili ni osnovnu školu.
03:07
Many couldn't use cursive,
could barely print.
could barely print.
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Mnogi nisu znali da koriste kurziv,
jedva da su znali i štampana slova.
jedva da su znali i štampana slova.
Nisu ni pisali naročito tečno.
03:15
They didn't write fluently, either.
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Pa smo tražili kratke pesme,
veoma kratke, ali veoma snažne.
veoma kratke, ali veoma snažne.
03:19
So we started looking for short poems.
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03:23
Very short, but very powerful.
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I počeli smo da čitamo,
čitali smo pisca za piscem
čitali smo pisca za piscem
03:26
And we started to read, and we'd read
one author, then another author,
one author, then another author,
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i čitajući te kratke pesme,
svi su shvatili
svi su shvatili
03:30
and by reading such short poems,
they all began to realize
they all began to realize
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da jezik poezije nastaje
kada se razbije logička izvesnost
kada se razbije logička izvesnost
03:35
that what the poetic language did
was to break a certain logic,
was to break a certain logic,
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i kada se uspostavi novi sistem.
03:40
and create another system.
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Razbiti logiku jezika,
takođe znači razbiti logičnost sistema
takođe znači razbiti logičnost sistema
03:42
Breaking the logic of language
also breaks the logic of the system
also breaks the logic of the system
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kome su naučili da se povinuju.
03:45
under which they've learned to respond.
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03:50
So a new system appeared,
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Tako je nastao novi sistem, nova pravila
03:54
new rules that made them
understand very quickly,
understand very quickly,
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koja su veoma brzo savladali,
ali veoma brzo,
ali veoma brzo,
03:59
- very quickly -
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04:01
that with poetic language
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da uz pomoć poetskog jezika
mogu da kažu apsolutno sve što žele.
mogu da kažu apsolutno sve što žele.
04:03
they would be able to say
absolutely whatever they wanted.
absolutely whatever they wanted.
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Kažu, da biste bili pesnik,
morate se bar jednom spustiti u pakao.
morate se bar jednom spustiti u pakao.
04:11
It's said that to be a poet
you have to go to hell and back.
you have to go to hell and back.
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A njima pakla nije nedostajalo.
Pakla im nije nedostajalo.
Pakla im nije nedostajalo.
04:17
And they have plenty of hell.
Plenty of hell.
Plenty of hell.
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04:21
One of them once said:
"In prison you never sleep.
"In prison you never sleep.
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Jednom je neko od njih rekao:
"U zatvoru nikada ne spavaš.
"U zatvoru nikada ne spavaš.
Nikada se ne spava u zatvoru.
Nikada ne možeš da spustiš kapke."
Nikada ne možeš da spustiš kapke."
04:26
You can never sleep in jail.
You can never close your eyelids."
You can never close your eyelids."
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04:32
And so, like I’m doing now,
I gave them a moment of silence,
I gave them a moment of silence,
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I tada sam uradila što i sada,
nakon momenta tišine, rekla sam im:
"Ljudi, ovo je poezija, ovo."
"Ljudi, ovo je poezija, ovo."
04:38
then said,
“That's what poetry is, you guys.
“That's what poetry is, you guys.
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Ona se prikazuje u zatvorskom univerzumu,
na dohvat vam je ruke.
na dohvat vam je ruke.
04:44
It's in this prison universe
that you have all around you.
that you have all around you.
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Sve o čemu govorite, da nikada ne spavate.
04:49
Everything you say
about how you never sleep,
about how you never sleep,
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Iz tog se luči strah.
Sve nenapisano. Sve je to poezija.
Sve nenapisano. Sve je to poezija.
04:51
it exudes fear.
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04:53
All the things that go unwritten --
all of that is poetry."
all of that is poetry."
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Te smo počeli da prisvajamo taj pakao.
04:59
So we started appropriating that hell;
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I direktno smo se strmoglavili
u sedmi krug.
u sedmi krug.
05:03
we plunged ourselves, headfirst,
into the seventh circle.
into the seventh circle.
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A u tom sedmom krugu pakla,
nama bliskom, nama dragom,
nama bliskom, nama dragom,
05:07
And in that seventh circle of hell,
our very own, beloved circle,
our very own, beloved circle,
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naučili smo da zidovi mogu da nestanu,
da prozori mogu da vrište,
da prozori mogu da vrište,
05:11
they learned that they could
make the walls invisible,
make the walls invisible,
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05:15
that they could make the windows yell,
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da se skrivamo u senkama.
05:17
and that we could hide inside the shadows.
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05:23
When the first year
of the workshop had ended,
of the workshop had ended,
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Prve godine,
kada smo završili s radionicom
kada smo završili s radionicom
priredili smo malenu zabavu
za kraj godine,
za kraj godine,
05:27
we organized a little closing party,
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05:29
like you do when a job is done
with so much love,
with so much love,
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kakav je i običaj
kada se odradi posao s toliko ljubavi.
kada se odradi posao s toliko ljubavi.
Želite da slavite i da napravite zabavu.
05:33
and you want to celebrate with a party.
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Pozvali smo porodicu, prijatelje,
nadležne s univerziteta.
nadležne s univerziteta.
05:36
We called family, friends,
the university authorities.
the university authorities.
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05:40
The only thing the inmates
had to do was read a poem,
had to do was read a poem,
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Sve što je trebalo da urade
jeste da pročitaju jednu pesmu,
jeste da pročitaju jednu pesmu,
prime diplomu, dobiju aplauz
i to je bila čitava naša skromna zabava.
i to je bila čitava naša skromna zabava.
05:45
and receive their diplomas and applause.
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05:47
That was our simple party.
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05:52
The only thing I want to leave you with
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Samo želim da vam prenesem sliku
momenta kada su ti muškarci,
momenta kada su ti muškarci,
05:58
is the moment in which those men,
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često ogromni u poređenju sa mnom,
06:03
some of them just huge
when standing next to me,
when standing next to me,
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ili momci, veoma mladi,
ali s ogromnim ponosom,
ali s ogromnim ponosom,
06:05
or the young boys - so young,
but with an enormous pride,
but with an enormous pride,
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kako su stajali s papirom
i drhtali kao dečaci, preznojavajući se
i drhtali kao dečaci, preznojavajući se
06:11
held their papers and trembled
like little kids and sweated,
like little kids and sweated,
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i kako su čitali svoje pesme
glasom potpuno skrhanim.
glasom potpuno skrhanim.
06:17
and read their poems with their
voices completely broken.
voices completely broken.
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Taj momenat me je naterao da pomislim
da većina njih sigurno
da većina njih sigurno
06:24
That moment made me think a lot
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06:28
that for most of them,
it was surely the very first time
it was surely the very first time
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nikada pre nije primila aplauz
za bilo šta što su uradili.
za bilo šta što su uradili.
06:33
that someone applauded them
for something they had done.
for something they had done.
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06:40
In prison there are things
that can't be done.
that can't be done.
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U zatvoru ima stvari
koje se ne mogu raditi.
koje se ne mogu raditi.
U zatvoru se ne može sanjati,
u zatvoru se ne može plakati.
u zatvoru se ne može plakati.
06:44
In prison, you can't dream.
In prison, you can't cry.
In prison, you can't cry.
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06:49
There are words that are virtually
forbidden, like the word "time,"
forbidden, like the word "time,"
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Neke reči su praktično zabranjene,
poput reči "vreme",
poput reči "vreme",
reči "budućnost", reči "žudnja".
06:54
the word "future," the word "wish".
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06:59
But we dared to dream, and to dream a lot.
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Ali mi smo se odvažili da sanjamo
i to da sanjamo na veliko,
i to da sanjamo na veliko,
jer smo odlučili
da će oni da napišu knjigu.
da će oni da napišu knjigu.
07:04
We decided
that they were going to write a book.
that they were going to write a book.
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Ne samo da su napisali knjigu,
već su je i uvezali.
već su je i uvezali.
07:09
Not only did they write a book,
but they also bound it themselves.
but they also bound it themselves.
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To je bilo krajem 2010.
07:13
That was at the end of 2010.
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Onda smo podigli ulog
i napisali drugu knjigu.
i napisali drugu knjigu.
07:16
Then, we doubled the bet
and wrote another book.
and wrote another book.
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I uvezali smo drugu knjigu.
07:21
And we bound that one, too.
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To je bilo nedavno, krajem prošle godine.
07:22
That was a short time ago,
at the end of last year.
at the end of last year.
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07:28
What I see week after week,
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Ono što vidim, iz nedelje u nedelju,
jeste kako postaju drugi ljudi,
jeste kako postaju drugi ljudi,
07:32
is how they're turning
into different people;
into different people;
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07:36
how they're being transformed.
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kako se transformišu.
Kako ih reči uče dostojanstvu
koje im je bilo strano,
koje im je bilo strano,
07:38
How words are empowering them
with a dignity they had never known,
with a dignity they had never known,
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nezamislivo čak.
07:43
that they couldn't even imagine.
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Nisu znali za dostojanstvo
i da bi mogli da ga poseduju.
i da bi mogli da ga poseduju.
07:45
They had no idea such dignity
could come from them.
could come from them.
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Za vreme radionice,
u tom našem voljenom paklu, sve delimo.
u tom našem voljenom paklu, sve delimo.
07:51
At the workshop, in that beloved hell
we share, we all give something.
we share, we all give something.
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Raširimo ruke i srce i delimo
07:58
We open our hands and hearts and give
what we have, what we can.
what we have, what we can.
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koliko imamo, koliko možemo. Sve.
08:02
All of us;
all of us equally.
all of us equally.
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Svima jednako.
Na taj način osećate da bar malo
08:05
And so you feel that at least
in a small way
in a small way
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08:09
you're repairing
that huge social fracture
that huge social fracture
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popravljate tu ogromnu društvenu pukotinu
08:13
which makes it so that for many of them,
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zbog koje mnogi nalik njima,
iščekuju zatvor kao jedinu sudbinu.
iščekuju zatvor kao jedinu sudbinu.
08:18
prison is their only destination.
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Sećam se stiha jednog strašnog pesnika,
velikog pesnika
velikog pesnika
08:24
I remember a verse
by a tremendous poet, a great poet,
by a tremendous poet, a great poet,
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iz Odeljenja 48, iz naše radionice,
Nikolasa Dorada:
Nikolasa Dorada:
08:30
from our Unit 48 workshop,
Nicolás Dorado:
Nicolás Dorado:
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"Moram da pronađem beskonačnu nit
da njome zašijem ovu ogromnu ranu."
da njome zašijem ovu ogromnu ranu."
08:40
"I will need an infinite thread
to sew up this huge wound."
to sew up this huge wound."
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Poezija to i radi. Šije rane izolacije.
08:47
Poetry does that; it sews up
the wounds of exclusion.
the wounds of exclusion.
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Otvara vrata. Poezija je poput ogledala.
08:53
It opens doors.
Poetry works as a mirror.
Poetry works as a mirror.
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08:58
It creates a mirror, which is the poem.
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Stvara ogledalo, a to je pesma sama.
Oni se prepoznaju,
ogedaju se u pesmi i pišu
ogedaju se u pesmi i pišu
09:01
They recognize themselves,
they look at themselves in the poem
they look at themselves in the poem
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09:05
and write from who they are,
and are from what they write.
and are from what they write.
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o onome što jesu, i jesu ono o čemu pišu.
Da bi mogli da pišu potrebno je
da ovladaju trenutkom stvaranja pesme
da ovladaju trenutkom stvaranja pesme
09:10
In order to write,
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09:13
they need to appropriate
the moment of writing
the moment of writing
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a to je trenutak izuzetne slobode.
09:17
which is a moment
of extraordinary freedom.
of extraordinary freedom.
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Moraju da potraže u svojoj glavi
taj komadić slobode
taj komadić slobode
09:21
They have to get into their heads,
search for that bit of freedom
search for that bit of freedom
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koji im nikad, nikad niko
ne može da oduzme, trenutak stvaranja
ne može da oduzme, trenutak stvaranja
09:24
that can never be taken away
when they write
when they write
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i da im to takođe služi da shvate
da je sloboda moguća
da je sloboda moguća
09:29
and that is also useful
to realize that freedom is possible
to realize that freedom is possible
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09:32
even inside a prison,
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čak i u zatvoru,
i da su jedine rešetke koje imamo
i da su jedine rešetke koje imamo
09:34
and that the only bars we have
in our wonderful space
in our wonderful space
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u našem divnom prostoru,
samo reč "rešetke"
samo reč "rešetke"
09:40
is the word "bars,"
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09:42
and that all of us in our hell
burn with happiness
burn with happiness
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i da svi u našem paklu gorimo od sreće
kada naučimo
kako da koristimo reči kao fitilj.
kako da koristimo reči kao fitilj.
09:45
when we light the wick of the word.
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09:49
(Applause)
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(Aplauz)
Govorila sam vam mnogo o zatvoru,
10:17
I told you a lot about the prison,
a lot about what I experience
a lot about what I experience
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mnogo o tome
šta proživljavam svake sedmice
šta proživljavam svake sedmice
10:23
every week, and how I enjoy it
and transform myself with the inmates.
and transform myself with the inmates.
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i koliko uživam
i kako se menjam zajedno s njima.
i kako se menjam zajedno s njima.
Ali znate šta bih volela,
kada biste vi mogli da osetite, doživite,
kada biste vi mogli da osetite, doživite,
10:28
But you don't know how much I'd like it
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10:31
if you could feel, live, experience,
even for a few seconds,
even for a few seconds,
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da iskusite, makar na nekoliko sekundi
ono u čemu ja uživam svake sedmice
i zbog čega jesam to što jesam.
i zbog čega jesam to što jesam.
10:37
what I enjoy every week
and what makes me who I am.
and what makes me who I am.
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10:44
(Applause)
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(Aplauz)
10:53
Martín Bustamante:
The heart chews tears of time;
The heart chews tears of time;
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Martin Bustamante:
"Srce žvaće suze vremena
"Srce žvaće suze vremena
10:57
blinded by that light,
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zaslepljeno tom svetlošću
prikriva brzinu postojanja
11:00
it hides the speed of existence
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11:03
where the images go rowing by.
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kad slike naviru kao vesla,
bori se, ne posustaje.
11:05
It fights; it hangs on.
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Srce se slama pod tužnim pogledima
11:08
The heart cracks under sad gazes,
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11:12
rides on storms that spread fire,
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jaše oluje koje kupaju požare
podiže grudi unižene stidom,
11:16
lifts chests lowered by shame,
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zna da nije sve u praćenju uputstava
11:19
knows that it's not just reading
and going on,
and going on,
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takođe čezne da vidi beskrajno plavetnilo.
11:22
it also wishes to see the infinite blue.
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11:26
The heart sits down to think about things,
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Srce sedne da razmisli,
bori se da ne nasedne na tričarije,
11:30
fights to avoid being ordinary,
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želi da nauči da voli, a da ne povređuje,
11:32
tries to love without hurting,
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udiše sunce i to ga hrabri,
11:36
breathes the sun,
giving courage to itself,
giving courage to itself,
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prepušta se, ide razumu.
11:40
surrenders, travels toward reason.
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11:44
The heart fights among the swamps,
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Srce se bori u kaljugama,
11:47
skirts the edge of the underworld,
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iscrtava granice podzemlja,
padne onemoćalo, ali se ne predaje lako
11:50
falls exhausted, but won't give in
to what's easy,
to what's easy,
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sve dok ga
neravnomerni koraci omamljenosti
neravnomerni koraci omamljenosti
11:55
while irregular steps of intoxication
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ne probude,
11:57
wake up,
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dok ne probude tišinu."
11:59
wake the stillness.
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Ja sam Martin Bustamante,
12:01
I'm Martín Bustamante,
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zatvorenik sam iz Jedinice 48,
u San Martinu,
u San Martinu,
12:03
I'm a prisoner in Unit 48 of San Martín,
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danas su me privremeno pustili.
12:07
today is my day of temporary release.
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Meni su poezija i književnost
12:10
And for me, poetry and literature
have changed my life.
have changed my life.
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promenile život.
Mnogo vam hvala!
(Aplauz)
(Aplauz)
12:13
Thank you very much!
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Kristina Domenek: Hvala!
12:14
Cristina Domenech: Thank you!
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12:16
(Applause)
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(Aplauz)
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Cristina Domenech - Poet and educatorCristina Domenech proposes to use language as an instrument of liberation and as a way to change the world.
Why you should listen
Writer and philosopher Cristina Domenech coordinates reading and writing workshops for kids and adults, including the inmates of the Centro de Estudiantes Rodolfo Walsh of the Centro Universitario San Martín (CUSAM) Universidad Nacional de San Martín, Unidad Penitenciaria 48, in Buenos Aires.
She has participated since 1995 in numerous conferences and meetings of national and international writers, among which include the International Festival of Poetry in Havana, Cuba, in 2009 and 2010 and Cosmopoética 2013 in Cordoba, Spain.
Her published works include “Impalpable” (1994), “Condensación de la Luz” (1998), Tierra Negra (1999), Demudado (2007), anthologies of poetry in 2010 and 2011, and most recently “Sintaxis del nudo” ("Syntax Knot").
More profile about the speakerShe has participated since 1995 in numerous conferences and meetings of national and international writers, among which include the International Festival of Poetry in Havana, Cuba, in 2009 and 2010 and Cosmopoética 2013 in Cordoba, Spain.
Her published works include “Impalpable” (1994), “Condensación de la Luz” (1998), Tierra Negra (1999), Demudado (2007), anthologies of poetry in 2010 and 2011, and most recently “Sintaxis del nudo” ("Syntax Knot").
Cristina Domenech | Speaker | TED.com