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Cristina Domenech: Poetry that frees the soul
Cristina Domenech: Poezija koja oslobađa dušu
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"Kažu, da biste bili pjesnik, morate se ponekad spustiti u pakao.“ Cristina Domenech vodi radionice kreativnog pisanja u jednom argentinskom zatvoru te pripovijeda dirljivu priču kako pomaže zatvorenicima da se izraze, da razumiju sebe same... i da se raduju slobodi riječi. Obratite pažnju na emocionalno čitanje pjesme jednog od njezinih učenika zatvorenika pred 10 000 gledatelja.
Cristina Domenech - Poet and educator
Cristina Domenech proposes to use language as an instrument of liberation and as a way to change the world. Full bio
Cristina Domenech proposes to use language as an instrument of liberation and as a way to change the world. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:14
It's said that to be a poet
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Kažu, da biste bili pjesnik,
morate se ponekad spustiti u pakao.
morate se ponekad spustiti u pakao.
00:18
you have to go to hell and back.
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Kad sam prvi put ušla u zatvor,
nije me iznenadila
nije me iznenadila
00:24
The first time I visited the prison,
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00:27
I was not surprised by the noise
of the padlocks,
of the padlocks,
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ni buka lokota, ni vrata
koja su se zatvarala, ni rešetke,
koja su se zatvarala, ni rešetke,
00:32
or the closing doors,
or the cell bars,
or the cell bars,
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ni išta drugo što sam zamišljala.
00:36
or by any of the things
I had imagined.
I had imagined.
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Možda zato što se zatvor nalazi
u prilično otvorenom prostoru.
u prilično otvorenom prostoru.
00:40
Maybe because the prison
is in a quite open space.
is in a quite open space.
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Vidi se nebo.
00:45
You can see the sky.
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Galebovi prolijeću i misliš
da ti je more odmah pokraj.
da ti je more odmah pokraj.
00:47
Seagulls fly overhead,
and you feel like you're next to the sea,
and you feel like you're next to the sea,
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Da si jako blizu plaže.
00:51
that you're really close to the beach.
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Zapravo se galebovi hrane
na smetlištu blizu zatvora.
na smetlištu blizu zatvora.
00:54
But in fact, the gulls are looking
for food in the dump near the prison.
for food in the dump near the prison.
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01:01
I went farther inside and I suddenly saw
inmates moving across the corridors.
inmates moving across the corridors.
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Nastavila sam i odjednom sam vidjela
zatvorenike kako se kreću po paviljonima.
zatvorenike kako se kreću po paviljonima.
01:07
Then it was as if I stepped back
and thought
and thought
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Kao da sam koraknula unazad i pomislila
01:11
that I could have very well been
one of them.
one of them.
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da sam i ja mogla biti jedna od njih.
Da sam imala drugu priču,
druge okolnosti ili drukčiju sreću.
druge okolnosti ili drukčiju sreću.
01:15
If I had another story,
another context, different luck.
another context, different luck.
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Jer baš nitko ne može
izabrati gdje će se roditi.
izabrati gdje će se roditi.
01:22
Because nobody - nobody -
can choose where they're born.
can choose where they're born.
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Godine 2009. pozvali su me
da se pridružim projektu
da se pridružim projektu
01:29
In 2009, I was invited to join a project
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01:34
that San Martín National University
conducted at the Unit 48 penitentiary,
conducted at the Unit 48 penitentiary,
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koji provodi Nacionalno sveučilište
San Martín u Odjelu 48,
San Martín u Odjelu 48,
01:39
to coordinate a writing workshop.
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kako bih vodila radionicu
kreativnog pisanja.
kreativnog pisanja.
01:43
The prison service ceded some land
at the end of the prison,
at the end of the prison,
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Zatvorska uprava ustupila im je
dio zemljišta na kraju zatvora
dio zemljišta na kraju zatvora
01:49
which is where they constructed
the University Center building.
the University Center building.
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i baš su tamo sagradili
zgradu sveučilišnog centra.
zgradu sveučilišnog centra.
01:56
The first time I met with the prisoners,
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Tijekom prvog susreta sa zatvorenicima
pitala sam ih zašto su tražili
radionicu kreativnog pisanja
radionicu kreativnog pisanja
01:58
I asked them why they were asking
for a writing workshop
for a writing workshop
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02:02
and they told me they wanted
to put on paper
to put on paper
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i rekli su mi da žele staviti na papir
sve ono što ne mogu reći i učiniti.
02:05
all that they couldn't say and do.
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Tada sam odlučila da želim
uvesti poeziju u zatvor.
uvesti poeziju u zatvor.
02:11
Right then I decided that I wanted poetry
to enter the prison.
to enter the prison.
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Upitala sam ih zašto se
ne bismo bavili poezijom,
ne bismo bavili poezijom,
02:17
So I said to them
why don't we work with poetry,
why don't we work with poetry,
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02:21
if they knew what poetry was.
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ako znaju što je to.
Nitko nije imao pojma
što je uistinu poezija.
što je uistinu poezija.
02:23
But nobody had a clue
what poetry really was.
what poetry really was.
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Osim toga, predložili su mi da
radionica ne bude samo za one
radionica ne bude samo za one
02:30
They also suggested to me
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02:32
that the workshop should be
not just for the inmates
not just for the inmates
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s fakultetskim obrazovanjem,
nego da obuhvati
nego da obuhvati
02:34
taking university classes,
but for all the inmates.
but for all the inmates.
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sve zatvorenike.
Tada sam rekla da mi
za tu radionicu treba
za tu radionicu treba
02:40
And so I said
that to start this workshop,
that to start this workshop,
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02:43
I needed to find a tool
that we all had in common.
that we all had in common.
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neki alat kojeg bismo svi imali.
Taj je alat bio jezik.
02:47
That tool was language.
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Imali smo jezik, imali smo radionicu.
Mogli smo imati i poeziju.
Mogli smo imati i poeziju.
02:50
We had language, we had the workshop.
We could have poetry.
We could have poetry.
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02:56
But what I hadn't considered
was that inequality exists in prison, too.
was that inequality exists in prison, too.
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No, nisam računala da je i
nejednakost prisutna u zatvoru
nejednakost prisutna u zatvoru
03:02
Many of the prisoners hadn't even
completed grammar school.
completed grammar school.
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te mnogi među njima nisu
završili čak ni osnovnu školu.
završili čak ni osnovnu školu.
Mnogi nisu znali pisana slova,
tek poneka tiskana.
tek poneka tiskana.
03:07
Many couldn't use cursive,
could barely print.
could barely print.
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Nisu ni pisali pretjerano tečno.
03:15
They didn't write fluently, either.
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Tako smo krenuli tražiti vrlo kratke,
ali i vrlo snažne pjesme.
ali i vrlo snažne pjesme.
03:19
So we started looking for short poems.
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03:23
Very short, but very powerful.
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03:26
And we started to read, and we'd read
one author, then another author,
one author, then another author,
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Počeli smo čitati i čitali smo
jednog pa drugog pisca
jednog pa drugog pisca
i čitajući te tako kratke pjesme,
svi su počeli shvaćati
svi su počeli shvaćati
03:30
and by reading such short poems,
they all began to realize
they all began to realize
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da jezik poezije razbija
03:35
that what the poetic language did
was to break a certain logic,
was to break a certain logic,
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postojeću logiku i gradi drukčiji sustav.
03:40
and create another system.
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Razbijanje logike jezika znači
također razbijanje logike sustava
također razbijanje logike sustava
03:42
Breaking the logic of language
also breaks the logic of the system
also breaks the logic of the system
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kojem su bili naviknuti odgovarati.
03:45
under which they've learned to respond.
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03:50
So a new system appeared,
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Tada se pojavio novi sustav, nova pravila,
03:54
new rules that made them
understand very quickly,
understand very quickly,
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koja su im jako brzo pomogla shvatiti
03:59
- very quickly -
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da će jezikom poezije reći
baš ono što oni žele.
baš ono što oni žele.
04:01
that with poetic language
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04:03
they would be able to say
absolutely whatever they wanted.
absolutely whatever they wanted.
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Kažu, da biste bili pjesnik,
morate se ponekad spustiti u pakao.
morate se ponekad spustiti u pakao.
04:11
It's said that to be a poet
you have to go to hell and back.
you have to go to hell and back.
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A njima je pakla bilo previše.
04:17
And they have plenty of hell.
Plenty of hell.
Plenty of hell.
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04:21
One of them once said:
"In prison you never sleep.
"In prison you never sleep.
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Netko od njih je jednom rekao:
"U zatvoru ne spavaš nikad.
"U zatvoru ne spavaš nikad.
Nikad se ne može spavati u zatvoru.
Nikad ne možeš zatvoriti kapke."
Nikad ne možeš zatvoriti kapke."
04:26
You can never sleep in jail.
You can never close your eyelids."
You can never close your eyelids."
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04:32
And so, like I’m doing now,
I gave them a moment of silence,
I gave them a moment of silence,
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Tad sam napravila isto kao i sada,
nakon trenutka tišine, rekla sam im:
"Momci, upravo to je poezija.
"Momci, upravo to je poezija.
04:38
then said,
“That's what poetry is, you guys.
“That's what poetry is, you guys.
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Zatvorski svijet je izložen,
nadohvat ruke vam je.
nadohvat ruke vam je.
04:44
It's in this prison universe
that you have all around you.
that you have all around you.
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Sve to što govorite, da nikad ne spavate,
04:49
Everything you say
about how you never sleep,
about how you never sleep,
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odiše strahom. Sve nezapisano.
Sve je to poezija.
Sve je to poezija.
04:51
it exudes fear.
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04:53
All the things that go unwritten --
all of that is poetry."
all of that is poetry."
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Tada smo počeli prisvajati taj pakao.
04:59
So we started appropriating that hell;
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Uronili smo izravno i
duboko u sedmi krug.
duboko u sedmi krug.
05:03
we plunged ourselves, headfirst,
into the seventh circle.
into the seventh circle.
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U tom sedmom krugu pakla,
tako bliskom i dragom,
tako bliskom i dragom,
05:07
And in that seventh circle of hell,
our very own, beloved circle,
our very own, beloved circle,
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naučili su da zidovi mogu biti nevidljivi,
05:11
they learned that they could
make the walls invisible,
make the walls invisible,
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05:15
that they could make the windows yell,
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da mogu natjerati prozore da vrište
i da se možemo skriti unutar sjena.
i da se možemo skriti unutar sjena.
05:17
and that we could hide inside the shadows.
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05:23
When the first year
of the workshop had ended,
of the workshop had ended,
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Prve godine kad je radionica završila,
05:27
we organized a little closing party,
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organizirali smo malu proslavu
za kraj godine, kako se već radi
za kraj godine, kako se već radi
05:29
like you do when a job is done
with so much love,
with so much love,
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kad se dovrši posao
koji se radi s tolikom ljubavlju.
koji se radi s tolikom ljubavlju.
Čovjek želi proslaviti
i napraviti zabavu.
i napraviti zabavu.
05:33
and you want to celebrate with a party.
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Pozvali smo obitelji, prijatelje,
ljude s fakulteta.
ljude s fakulteta.
05:36
We called family, friends,
the university authorities.
the university authorities.
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05:40
The only thing the inmates
had to do was read a poem,
had to do was read a poem,
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Sve što su trebali napraviti
je pročitati pjesmu,
je pročitati pjesmu,
05:45
and receive their diplomas and applause.
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primiti diplomu i pljesak,
to je bila naša mala zabava.
to je bila naša mala zabava.
05:47
That was our simple party.
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05:52
The only thing I want to leave you with
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Jedino što ja želim zapamtiti je
trenutak kad su ti muškarci,
trenutak kad su ti muškarci,
05:58
is the moment in which those men,
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ponekad ogromni pokraj mene,
06:03
some of them just huge
when standing next to me,
when standing next to me,
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ili momci, iznimno mladi,
ali s iznimnim ponosom,
ali s iznimnim ponosom,
06:05
or the young boys - so young,
but with an enormous pride,
but with an enormous pride,
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06:11
held their papers and trembled
like little kids and sweated,
like little kids and sweated,
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držali svoje papire, tresući se
i znojeći poput dječaka,
i znojeći poput dječaka,
čitali svoje pjesme
potpuno slomljenim glasom.
potpuno slomljenim glasom.
06:17
and read their poems with their
voices completely broken.
voices completely broken.
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U tom trenutku sam se zamislila.
Za mnoge od njih je ovo sigurno bio
Za mnoge od njih je ovo sigurno bio
06:24
That moment made me think a lot
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06:28
that for most of them,
it was surely the very first time
it was surely the very first time
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prvi put da im netko plješće
za nešto što su napravili.
za nešto što su napravili.
06:33
that someone applauded them
for something they had done.
for something they had done.
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06:40
In prison there are things
that can't be done.
that can't be done.
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U zatvoru postoje stvari
koje se ne mogu raditi.
koje se ne mogu raditi.
U zatvoru se ne može sanjati.
U zatvoru se ne može plakati.
U zatvoru se ne može plakati.
06:44
In prison, you can't dream.
In prison, you can't cry.
In prison, you can't cry.
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Postoje riječi koje su zabranjene,
poput riječi "vrijeme",
poput riječi "vrijeme",
06:49
There are words that are virtually
forbidden, like the word "time,"
forbidden, like the word "time,"
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riječi "budućnost", riječi "želja".
06:54
the word "future," the word "wish".
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06:59
But we dared to dream, and to dream a lot.
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No, mi smo se odvažili sanjati
i puno smo sanjali
i puno smo sanjali
jer smo odlučili da će napisati knjigu.
07:04
We decided
that they were going to write a book.
that they were going to write a book.
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Ne samo da su napisali
knjigu, već su je i uvezali.
knjigu, već su je i uvezali.
07:09
Not only did they write a book,
but they also bound it themselves.
but they also bound it themselves.
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To je bilo krajem 2010. godine.
07:13
That was at the end of 2010.
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Drugi put smo se kladili
i napisali drugu knjigu.
i napisali drugu knjigu.
07:16
Then, we doubled the bet
and wrote another book.
and wrote another book.
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Uvezali su i drugu knjigu.
07:21
And we bound that one, too.
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To je bilo nedavno, krajem prošle godine.
07:22
That was a short time ago,
at the end of last year.
at the end of last year.
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07:28
What I see week after week,
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Ono što vidim iz tjedna u
tjedan je kako se pretvaraju
tjedan je kako se pretvaraju
07:32
is how they're turning
into different people;
into different people;
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u sasvim drugačije ljude,
transformiraju se.
transformiraju se.
07:36
how they're being transformed.
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Kako im riječ pruža dostojanstvo
koje nisu poznavali,
koje nisu poznavali,
07:38
How words are empowering them
with a dignity they had never known,
with a dignity they had never known,
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koje čak nisu mogli ni zamisliti.
07:43
that they couldn't even imagine.
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Nisu znali da takvo dostojanstvo
postoji i da može biti njihovo.
postoji i da može biti njihovo.
07:45
They had no idea such dignity
could come from them.
could come from them.
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Tijekom radionice, u tom našem
voljenom paklu, svi dajemo.
voljenom paklu, svi dajemo.
07:51
At the workshop, in that beloved hell
we share, we all give something.
we share, we all give something.
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Otvorimo ruke i srca te dajemo
07:58
We open our hands and hearts and give
what we have, what we can.
what we have, what we can.
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sve što imamo, sve što možemo.
Svi jednako.
08:02
All of us;
all of us equally.
all of us equally.
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Tako čovjek osjeća da barem malo
08:05
And so you feel that at least
in a small way
in a small way
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popravlja tu ogromnu društvenu
pukotinu zbog koje
pukotinu zbog koje
08:09
you're repairing
that huge social fracture
that huge social fracture
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08:13
which makes it so that for many of them,
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mnoge poput njih zatvor
čeka kao jedino odredište.
čeka kao jedino odredište.
08:18
prison is their only destination.
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Sjećam se stiha velikog pjesnika
08:24
I remember a verse
by a tremendous poet, a great poet,
by a tremendous poet, a great poet,
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08:30
from our Unit 48 workshop,
Nicolás Dorado:
Nicolás Dorado:
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iz Odjela 48, s naše radionice,
Nicolása Dorada:
Nicolása Dorada:
"Moram pronaći beskonačnu nit
kako bih zašio ovu veliku ranu."
kako bih zašio ovu veliku ranu."
08:40
"I will need an infinite thread
to sew up this huge wound."
to sew up this huge wound."
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To poezija čini.
Zašiva rane isključivosti.
Zašiva rane isključivosti.
08:47
Poetry does that; it sews up
the wounds of exclusion.
the wounds of exclusion.
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Otvara vrata.
Poezija je poput zrcala.
Poezija je poput zrcala.
08:53
It opens doors.
Poetry works as a mirror.
Poetry works as a mirror.
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08:58
It creates a mirror, which is the poem.
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Stvara zrcalo - pjesmu.
Prepoznaju se, promatraju se
u pjesmi i pišu,
u pjesmi i pišu,
09:01
They recognize themselves,
they look at themselves in the poem
they look at themselves in the poem
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09:05
and write from who they are,
and are from what they write.
and are from what they write.
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polazeći od toga tko su
i ono su odakle pišu.
i ono su odakle pišu.
Kako bi mogli pisati, moraju prisvojiti
09:10
In order to write,
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09:13
they need to appropriate
the moment of writing
the moment of writing
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trenutak pisanja koji je
trenutak izvanredne slobode.
trenutak izvanredne slobode.
09:17
which is a moment
of extraordinary freedom.
of extraordinary freedom.
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Moraju ući u glavu i
naći onaj djelić slobode
naći onaj djelić slobode
09:21
They have to get into their heads,
search for that bit of freedom
search for that bit of freedom
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koji im baš nikad nitko ne može
oduzeti u trenutku pisanja
oduzeti u trenutku pisanja
09:24
that can never be taken away
when they write
when they write
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i da im to posluži da dokažu
da je sloboda moguća
da je sloboda moguća
09:29
and that is also useful
to realize that freedom is possible
to realize that freedom is possible
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09:32
even inside a prison,
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iako se nalaze u zatvoru,
i da je jedina rešetka koju imamo
i da je jedina rešetka koju imamo
09:34
and that the only bars we have
in our wonderful space
in our wonderful space
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u našem predivnom prostoru
riječ "rešetka",
riječ "rešetka",
09:40
is the word "bars,"
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09:42
and that all of us in our hell
burn with happiness
burn with happiness
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i da svi u našem paklu izgaramo od sreće
09:45
when we light the wick of the word.
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kad se zapali fitilj riječi.
09:49
(Applause)
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(Pljesak)
10:17
I told you a lot about the prison,
a lot about what I experience
a lot about what I experience
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Govorila sam vam dosta o zatvoru,
o tome što doživljavam
o tome što doživljavam
svaki tjedan, kako uživam i kako se
transformiram zajedno s njima.
transformiram zajedno s njima.
10:23
every week, and how I enjoy it
and transform myself with the inmates.
and transform myself with the inmates.
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10:28
But you don't know how much I'd like it
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No, ne znate koliko bih voljela
da vi možete osjetiti, proživjeti,
da vi možete osjetiti, proživjeti,
10:31
if you could feel, live, experience,
even for a few seconds,
even for a few seconds,
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iskusiti, barem na nekoliko trenutaka
ono u čemu ja svaki tjedan uživam
i što me čini onim što jesam.
i što me čini onim što jesam.
10:37
what I enjoy every week
and what makes me who I am.
and what makes me who I am.
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10:44
(Applause)
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(Pljesak)
10:53
Martín Bustamante:
The heart chews tears of time;
The heart chews tears of time;
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"Srce žvače suze vremena
10:57
blinded by that light,
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zasljepljeno tim svjetlom,
skriva brzinu postojanja
11:00
it hides the speed of existence
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11:03
where the images go rowing by.
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gdje veslaju slike,
bori se, ne prepušta se.
11:05
It fights; it hangs on.
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Srce napukne pod tužnim pogledima,
11:08
The heart cracks under sad gazes,
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11:12
rides on storms that spread fire,
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jaše u olujama koje zalijevaju vatrom,
podiže prsa smanjena od srama,
11:16
lifts chests lowered by shame,
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zna da metoda nije samo čitati i slijediti,
11:19
knows that it's not just reading
and going on,
and going on,
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također želi vidjeti beskrajno plavetnilo.
11:22
it also wishes to see the infinite blue.
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11:26
The heart sits down to think about things,
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Srce sjedne da razmisli o stvarima,
bori se da ne padne u obično,
11:30
fights to avoid being ordinary,
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pokušava naučiti voljeti bez povređivanja,
11:32
tries to love without hurting,
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udiše sunce ohrabrujući se,
11:36
breathes the sun,
giving courage to itself,
giving courage to itself,
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predaje se, putuje razumu.
11:40
surrenders, travels toward reason.
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Srce se bori usred močvara,
11:44
The heart fights among the swamps,
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11:47
skirts the edge of the underworld,
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okružuje rub podzemlja,
pada iscrpljeno i ne predaje se lako
11:50
falls exhausted, but won't give in
to what's easy,
to what's easy,
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dok se nejednaki koraci oduševljenja
11:55
while irregular steps of intoxication
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ne probude,
11:57
wake up,
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ne probude mir".
11:59
wake the stillness.
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Zovem se Martín Bustamante.
12:01
I'm Martín Bustamante,
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Zatvorenik sam Odjela 48 u San Martínu.
12:03
I'm a prisoner in Unit 48 of San Martín,
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Danas su me privremeno pustili.
12:07
today is my day of temporary release.
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Poezija i književnost su meni
12:10
And for me, poetry and literature
have changed my life.
have changed my life.
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promijenili život.
Puno hvala!
(Pljesak)
(Pljesak)
12:13
Thank you very much!
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Hvala!
12:14
Cristina Domenech: Thank you!
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(Pljesak)
12:16
(Applause)
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ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Cristina Domenech - Poet and educatorCristina Domenech proposes to use language as an instrument of liberation and as a way to change the world.
Why you should listen
Writer and philosopher Cristina Domenech coordinates reading and writing workshops for kids and adults, including the inmates of the Centro de Estudiantes Rodolfo Walsh of the Centro Universitario San Martín (CUSAM) Universidad Nacional de San Martín, Unidad Penitenciaria 48, in Buenos Aires.
She has participated since 1995 in numerous conferences and meetings of national and international writers, among which include the International Festival of Poetry in Havana, Cuba, in 2009 and 2010 and Cosmopoética 2013 in Cordoba, Spain.
Her published works include “Impalpable” (1994), “Condensación de la Luz” (1998), Tierra Negra (1999), Demudado (2007), anthologies of poetry in 2010 and 2011, and most recently “Sintaxis del nudo” ("Syntax Knot").
More profile about the speakerShe has participated since 1995 in numerous conferences and meetings of national and international writers, among which include the International Festival of Poetry in Havana, Cuba, in 2009 and 2010 and Cosmopoética 2013 in Cordoba, Spain.
Her published works include “Impalpable” (1994), “Condensación de la Luz” (1998), Tierra Negra (1999), Demudado (2007), anthologies of poetry in 2010 and 2011, and most recently “Sintaxis del nudo” ("Syntax Knot").
Cristina Domenech | Speaker | TED.com