TEDxRiodelaPlata
Cristina Domenech: Poetry that frees the soul
克里斯蒂娜·多梅内克: 解放心灵的诗
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“有人说要想成为诗人，就要到地狱走一遭”。在一所阿根廷监狱开办写作班的克里斯蒂娜·多梅内克讲述了她帮助囚犯表达自我、理解自我以及理解语言带来的自由光辉的动人故事。现场还有她的一位囚犯学生在一万名观众前感人地读诗。
Cristina Domenech - Poet and educator
Cristina Domenech proposes to use language as an instrument of liberation and as a way to change the world. Full bio
Cristina Domenech proposes to use language as an instrument of liberation and as a way to change the world. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:14
It's said that to be a poet
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有人说 如果你想要成为诗人
00:18
you have to go to hell and back.
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你就必须去一趟地狱 然后回来
00:24
The first time I visited the prison,
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当我第一次参观监狱时
00:27
I was not surprised by the noise
of the padlocks,
of the padlocks,
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那里的枷锁和牢门关闭的声音
00:32
or the closing doors,
or the cell bars,
or the cell bars,
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狱室的栏杆
和我之前想象出的各种恐怖东西
和我之前想象出的各种恐怖东西
00:36
or by any of the things
I had imagined.
I had imagined.
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都没有吓到我
00:40
Maybe because the prison
is in a quite open space.
is in a quite open space.
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也许是因为那个监狱是在一个比较开阔的地方
00:45
You can see the sky.
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抬头就是天空
00:47
Seagulls fly overhead,
and you feel like you're next to the sea,
and you feel like you're next to the sea,
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海鸥在头顶飞翔
你会感觉大海就在附近
你会感觉大海就在附近
00:51
that you're really close to the beach.
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沙滩就在附近
00:54
But in fact, the gulls are looking
for food in the dump near the prison.
for food in the dump near the prison.
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但是实际上
那些海鸥是在监狱旁边的垃圾堆里寻找食物
那些海鸥是在监狱旁边的垃圾堆里寻找食物
01:01
I went farther inside and I suddenly saw
inmates moving across the corridors.
inmates moving across the corridors.
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我继续往里面走
突然看到囚犯们在走廊里走动
突然看到囚犯们在走廊里走动
01:07
Then it was as if I stepped back
and thought
and thought
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我停下脚步 陷入了思考
01:11
that I could have very well been
one of them.
one of them.
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我也有可能成为他们中的一员
01:15
If I had another story,
another context, different luck.
another context, different luck.
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如果我的人生是另一个故事
另一种境遇 不同的缘分
另一种境遇 不同的缘分
01:22
Because nobody - nobody -
can choose where they're born.
can choose where they're born.
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因为没有人能够选择他们的出身
01:29
In 2009, I was invited to join a project
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2009年，我应邀参加了一个项目
01:34
that San Martín National University
conducted at the Unit 48 penitentiary,
conducted at the Unit 48 penitentiary,
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圣·马丁国立大学在第48教养所
01:39
to coordinate a writing workshop.
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举办了一个写作班
01:43
The prison service ceded some land
at the end of the prison,
at the end of the prison,
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狱方在监狱的尽头划了一片地
01:49
which is where they constructed
the University Center building.
the University Center building.
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在那里修建了大学中心的建筑
01:56
The first time I met with the prisoners,
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我第一次和那些囚犯见面时
01:58
I asked them why they were asking
for a writing workshop
for a writing workshop
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我问他们为什么要参加写作班
02:02
and they told me they wanted
to put on paper
to put on paper
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他们说要把那些不能说与不能做的事
02:05
all that they couldn't say and do.
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都写在纸上
02:11
Right then I decided that I wanted poetry
to enter the prison.
to enter the prison.
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那一刻 我决定把诗引入监狱
02:17
So I said to them
why don't we work with poetry,
why don't we work with poetry,
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于是我跟他们说
为什么我们不写诗
为什么我们不写诗
02:21
if they knew what poetry was.
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如果他们知道诗是什么
02:23
But nobody had a clue
what poetry really was.
what poetry really was.
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但是没有人清楚诗到底是什么
02:30
They also suggested to me
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他们还给我建议
02:32
that the workshop should be
not just for the inmates
not just for the inmates
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写作班不应该只面向参加大学课程的囚犯
02:34
taking university classes,
but for all the inmates.
but for all the inmates.
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而应该面向所有囚犯
02:40
And so I said
that to start this workshop,
that to start this workshop,
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于是我说如果要办这个写作班
02:43
I needed to find a tool
that we all had in common.
that we all had in common.
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我需要找到一个我们都有的工具
02:47
That tool was language.
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这个工具就是语言
02:50
We had language, we had the workshop.
We could have poetry.
We could have poetry.
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我们有语言 有这个写作班
就应当可以写诗
就应当可以写诗
02:56
But what I hadn't considered
was that inequality exists in prison, too.
was that inequality exists in prison, too.
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但是我没有想到
监狱里面也存在着不平等
监狱里面也存在着不平等
03:02
Many of the prisoners hadn't even
completed grammar school.
completed grammar school.
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很多囚犯连语法都没学过
03:07
Many couldn't use cursive,
could barely print.
could barely print.
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很多人不会手写体
连写印刷体也很困难
连写印刷体也很困难
03:15
They didn't write fluently, either.
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他们写的也不流畅
03:19
So we started looking for short poems.
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于是我们先从短篇诗开始
03:23
Very short, but very powerful.
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非常短 但是非常有力
03:26
And we started to read, and we'd read
one author, then another author,
one author, then another author,
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然后我们开始阅读
一位作家接着一位作家的读
一位作家接着一位作家的读
03:30
and by reading such short poems,
they all began to realize
they all began to realize
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通过阅读这些短篇诗
他们都开始意识到
他们都开始意识到
03:35
that what the poetic language did
was to break a certain logic,
was to break a certain logic,
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诗的语言能够打破一定的逻辑
03:40
and create another system.
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并且建立另一个系统
03:42
Breaking the logic of language
also breaks the logic of the system
also breaks the logic of the system
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诗在打破了语言的逻辑
的同时也打破了
的同时也打破了
03:45
under which they've learned to respond.
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他们早已适应的系统的逻辑
03:50
So a new system appeared,
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于是一个新的系统诞生了
03:54
new rules that made them
understand very quickly,
understand very quickly,
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新的规则让他们非常迅速
03:59
- very quickly -
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非常迅速地理解到
04:01
that with poetic language
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利用诗的语言
04:03
they would be able to say
absolutely whatever they wanted.
absolutely whatever they wanted.
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他们可以说出想表达的一切
04:11
It's said that to be a poet
you have to go to hell and back.
you have to go to hell and back.
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有人说要成为诗人
就要到地狱去再回来
就要到地狱去再回来
04:17
And they have plenty of hell.
Plenty of hell.
Plenty of hell.
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这些囚犯的现实人生已然是地狱
04:21
One of them once said:
"In prison you never sleep.
"In prison you never sleep.
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一个囚犯说
“在监狱无法睡觉
“在监狱无法睡觉
04:26
You can never sleep in jail.
You can never close your eyelids."
You can never close your eyelids."
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“在监狱无法入眠
无法合拢眼皮”
无法合拢眼皮”
04:32
And so, like I’m doing now,
I gave them a moment of silence,
I gave them a moment of silence,
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于是 就像我现在要做的
我让他们保持片刻的安静
我让他们保持片刻的安静
04:38
then said,
“That's what poetry is, you guys.
“That's what poetry is, you guys.
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然后说
“这就是诗，各位”
“这就是诗，各位”
04:44
It's in this prison universe
that you have all around you.
that you have all around you.
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诗就在这所监狱中
在你的周围
在你的周围
04:49
Everything you say
about how you never sleep,
about how you never sleep,
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你说的关于“无法入眠”的一切
04:51
it exudes fear.
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都散发着恐惧
04:53
All the things that go unwritten --
all of that is poetry."
all of that is poetry."
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所有这一切没有写下来的
全部都是诗
全部都是诗
04:59
So we started appropriating that hell;
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于是我们开始借用这个地狱
05:03
we plunged ourselves, headfirst,
into the seventh circle.
into the seventh circle.
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我们将自己头朝下
投入到第七圈地狱中
投入到第七圈地狱中
05:07
And in that seventh circle of hell,
our very own, beloved circle,
our very own, beloved circle,
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而就在这第七圈地狱
我们自己的 钟爱的第七圈
我们自己的 钟爱的第七圈
05:11
they learned that they could
make the walls invisible,
make the walls invisible,
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他们发现自己可以让围墙消失
05:15
that they could make the windows yell,
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可以让窗户咆哮
05:17
and that we could hide inside the shadows.
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而我们可以躲在阴影里
05:23
When the first year
of the workshop had ended,
of the workshop had ended,
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当第一年的写作班结束时
05:27
we organized a little closing party,
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我们开了一个小型的结课聚会
05:29
like you do when a job is done
with so much love,
with so much love,
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就好像当你投入了很多爱
去完成了一项工作时
去完成了一项工作时
05:33
and you want to celebrate with a party.
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你会用一个聚会来庆祝
05:36
We called family, friends,
the university authorities.
the university authorities.
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我们叫来了家人 朋友
大学的官员
大学的官员
05:40
The only thing the inmates
had to do was read a poem,
had to do was read a poem,
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犯人们唯一需要做的
就是读一首诗
就是读一首诗
05:45
and receive their diplomas and applause.
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然后接收学位并鼓掌
05:47
That was our simple party.
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我们的聚会就是这样简单
05:52
The only thing I want to leave you with
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我还想告诉你的唯一一点
05:58
is the moment in which those men,
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就是有那么一刻 这些人
06:03
some of them just huge
when standing next to me,
when standing next to me,
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他们中有些人站在我旁边
显得十分巨大
显得十分巨大
06:05
or the young boys - so young,
but with an enormous pride,
but with an enormous pride,
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还有年轻的男孩 非常年轻
但是非常有傲骨
但是非常有傲骨
06:11
held their papers and trembled
like little kids and sweated,
like little kids and sweated,
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他们都拿着自己的纸
颤抖得像小孩子 满身是汗
颤抖得像小孩子 满身是汗
06:17
and read their poems with their
voices completely broken.
voices completely broken.
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朗诵着自己的诗
声音完全嘶哑了
声音完全嘶哑了
06:24
That moment made me think a lot
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那一刻让我思考良多
06:28
that for most of them,
it was surely the very first time
it was surely the very first time
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对于他们中大多数人
这肯定是第一次
这肯定是第一次
06:33
that someone applauded them
for something they had done.
for something they had done.
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能够有人为了他们做的事情而鼓掌
06:40
In prison there are things
that can't be done.
that can't be done.
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在监狱中有些事情是不能做的
06:44
In prison, you can't dream.
In prison, you can't cry.
In prison, you can't cry.
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在监狱里 不能做梦
在监狱里 不能哭喊
在监狱里 不能哭喊
06:49
There are words that are virtually
forbidden, like the word "time,"
forbidden, like the word "time,"
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有些词基本是禁用的
比如说“时间”
比如说“时间”
06:54
the word "future," the word "wish".
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“未来” 或者 “希望”
06:59
But we dared to dream, and to dream a lot.
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但是我们敢于去做梦
做很多的梦
做很多的梦
07:04
We decided
that they were going to write a book.
that they were going to write a book.
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我们决定犯人们可以写本书
07:09
Not only did they write a book,
but they also bound it themselves.
but they also bound it themselves.
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他们不仅写了一本书
而且他们还自己装订
而且他们还自己装订
07:13
That was at the end of 2010.
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那是2010年年底
07:16
Then, we doubled the bet
and wrote another book.
and wrote another book.
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那之后 我们下了双重赌注
写了另一本书
写了另一本书
07:21
And we bound that one, too.
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我们也装订了那一本
07:22
That was a short time ago,
at the end of last year.
at the end of last year.
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那是不久之前
去年年底
去年年底
07:28
What I see week after week,
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一个又一个星期过去了
我所看到的是
我所看到的是
07:32
is how they're turning
into different people;
into different people;
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他们如何成为了不同的人
07:36
how they're being transformed.
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他们如何进行转变
07:38
How words are empowering them
with a dignity they had never known,
with a dignity they had never known,
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词语是如何让他们变得强大而有尊严
连他们自己都从未知道
连他们自己都从未知道
07:43
that they couldn't even imagine.
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甚至都不可能想象
07:45
They had no idea such dignity
could come from them.
could come from them.
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他们曾经不晓得
尊严可以这样在他们身上出现
尊严可以这样在他们身上出现
07:51
At the workshop, in that beloved hell
we share, we all give something.
we share, we all give something.
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在写作班上 那个我们所爱的地狱中
我们共同分享 给予
我们共同分享 给予
07:58
We open our hands and hearts and give
what we have, what we can.
what we have, what we can.
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我们张开双手 敞开心扉
尽力给予
尽力给予
08:02
All of us;
all of us equally.
all of us equally.
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我们所有人
所有人平等地
所有人平等地
08:05
And so you feel that at least
in a small way
in a small way
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于是你感觉至少很微不足道地
08:09
you're repairing
that huge social fracture
that huge social fracture
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你在修理一个巨大的社会的裂痕
08:13
which makes it so that for many of them,
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这个裂痕造成的后果
就是很多像他们一样的人
就是很多像他们一样的人
08:18
prison is their only destination.
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监狱成为了他们唯一的终点
08:24
I remember a verse
by a tremendous poet, a great poet,
by a tremendous poet, a great poet,
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我记得一句诗
是一位很伟大的诗人写的
是一位很伟大的诗人写的
08:30
from our Unit 48 workshop,
Nicolás Dorado:
Nicolás Dorado:
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是来自我们第48所的写作班
尼古拉斯·多拉多
尼古拉斯·多拉多
08:40
"I will need an infinite thread
to sew up this huge wound."
to sew up this huge wound."
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“我需要一根无限长的线
才能缝合这个巨大的伤口”
才能缝合这个巨大的伤口”
08:47
Poetry does that; it sews up
the wounds of exclusion.
the wounds of exclusion.
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诗就能做到这一点
诗可以缝合排斥带来的伤口
诗可以缝合排斥带来的伤口
08:53
It opens doors.
Poetry works as a mirror.
Poetry works as a mirror.
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诗能打开一扇扇门
诗歌就像一面镜子
诗歌就像一面镜子
08:58
It creates a mirror, which is the poem.
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它创造了一面镜子，这就是诗
09:01
They recognize themselves,
they look at themselves in the poem
they look at themselves in the poem
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他们可以认识自己
在诗中审视自己
在诗中审视自己
09:05
and write from who they are,
and are from what they write.
and are from what they write.
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写自己是谁
写的就是自己
写的就是自己
09:10
In order to write,
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为了写诗
09:13
they need to appropriate
the moment of writing
the moment of writing
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他们需要投入到写作的那一刻中
09:17
which is a moment
of extraordinary freedom.
of extraordinary freedom.
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那是一个极为自由的时刻
09:21
They have to get into their heads,
search for that bit of freedom
search for that bit of freedom
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他们必须走进自己的头脑
寻找自由的那一个点
寻找自由的那一个点
09:24
that can never be taken away
when they write
when they write
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这自由绝不会被夺走
只要他们在写作
只要他们在写作
09:29
and that is also useful
to realize that freedom is possible
to realize that freedom is possible
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这也帮助他们意识到
自由是可能的
自由是可能的
09:32
even inside a prison,
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甚至是在监狱中
09:34
and that the only bars we have
in our wonderful space
in our wonderful space
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在我们美好的空间中
我们仅有的栏杆
我们仅有的栏杆
09:40
is the word "bars,"
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仅仅是“栏杆”这个词
09:42
and that all of us in our hell
burn with happiness
burn with happiness
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我们所有的人 在我们的地狱中
幸福地燃烧
幸福地燃烧
09:45
when we light the wick of the word.
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当我们点燃词语这个蕊心
09:49
(Applause)
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10:17
I told you a lot about the prison,
a lot about what I experience
a lot about what I experience
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我跟你讲述了很多关于监狱的事
很多我的体验
很多我的体验
10:23
every week, and how I enjoy it
and transform myself with the inmates.
and transform myself with the inmates.
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每个星期 我如何享受这个过程
和犯人们一同转变自我
和犯人们一同转变自我
10:28
But you don't know how much I'd like it
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但是你不知道我到底有多喜欢
10:31
if you could feel, live, experience,
even for a few seconds,
even for a few seconds,
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如果你能够感受 亲历 体验
哪怕只是几秒钟
哪怕只是几秒钟
10:37
what I enjoy every week
and what makes me who I am.
and what makes me who I am.
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我每个星期所享受的
也是塑造了我这个人的体验
也是塑造了我这个人的体验
10:44
(Applause)
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10:53
Martín Bustamante:
The heart chews tears of time;
The heart chews tears of time;
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马丁·布斯塔曼特：
心灵咀嚼着时间的眼泪
心灵咀嚼着时间的眼泪
10:57
blinded by that light,
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被亮光所致盲
11:00
it hides the speed of existence
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在那里画面划动而过的地方
11:03
where the images go rowing by.
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它隐藏了存在的速度
11:05
It fights; it hangs on.
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它斗争着 它坚持着
11:08
The heart cracks under sad gazes,
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心在悲伤眼神的注视中碎裂
11:12
rides on storms that spread fire,
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驾驭着传播烈火的风暴
11:16
lifts chests lowered by shame,
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挺起了因羞耻而低垂的胸膛
11:19
knows that it's not just reading
and going on,
and going on,
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知道这不只是短暂的阅读后
仍然继续
仍然继续
11:22
it also wishes to see the infinite blue.
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它也希望能看到无限的蔚蓝
11:26
The heart sits down to think about things,
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心坐下来开始思考事情
11:30
fights to avoid being ordinary,
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斗争着避免平庸
11:32
tries to love without hurting,
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试图去爱而避免伤害
11:36
breathes the sun,
giving courage to itself,
giving courage to itself,
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呼吸阳光 给予自己勇气
11:40
surrenders, travels toward reason.
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投降 走向理性
11:44
The heart fights among the swamps,
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心在沼泽中斗争
11:47
skirts the edge of the underworld,
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绕行着黑暗社会的边际
11:50
falls exhausted, but won't give in
to what's easy,
to what's easy,
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筋疲力竭 但不会向容易做的
11:55
while irregular steps of intoxication
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但是一步步引向中毒的事情投降
11:57
wake up,
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醒来
11:59
wake the stillness.
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打破寂静
12:01
I'm Martín Bustamante,
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我是马丁·巴斯特曼特
12:03
I'm a prisoner in Unit 48 of San Martín,
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我是圣马丁第48狱所的囚犯
12:07
today is my day of temporary release.
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今天是我的临时释放日
12:10
And for me, poetry and literature
have changed my life.
have changed my life.
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对于我来说
诗与文学改变了我的生活
诗与文学改变了我的生活
12:13
Thank you very much!
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非常感谢！
12:14
Cristina Domenech: Thank you!
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克里斯蒂娜·多美尼克：谢谢！
12:16
(Applause)
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ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Cristina Domenech - Poet and educatorCristina Domenech proposes to use language as an instrument of liberation and as a way to change the world.
Why you should listen
Writer and philosopher Cristina Domenech coordinates reading and writing workshops for kids and adults, including the inmates of the Centro de Estudiantes Rodolfo Walsh of the Centro Universitario San Martín (CUSAM) Universidad Nacional de San Martín, Unidad Penitenciaria 48, in Buenos Aires.
She has participated since 1995 in numerous conferences and meetings of national and international writers, among which include the International Festival of Poetry in Havana, Cuba, in 2009 and 2010 and Cosmopoética 2013 in Cordoba, Spain.
Her published works include “Impalpable” (1994), “Condensación de la Luz” (1998), Tierra Negra (1999), Demudado (2007), anthologies of poetry in 2010 and 2011, and most recently “Sintaxis del nudo” ("Syntax Knot").
More profile about the speakerShe has participated since 1995 in numerous conferences and meetings of national and international writers, among which include the International Festival of Poetry in Havana, Cuba, in 2009 and 2010 and Cosmopoética 2013 in Cordoba, Spain.
Her published works include “Impalpable” (1994), “Condensación de la Luz” (1998), Tierra Negra (1999), Demudado (2007), anthologies of poetry in 2010 and 2011, and most recently “Sintaxis del nudo” ("Syntax Knot").
Cristina Domenech | Speaker | TED.com