TED2012
Bryan Stevenson: We need to talk about an injustice
布莱恩·史蒂文森：我们需要谈谈不公
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Readability: 3.5
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在这个演讲里，人权律师布莱恩·史蒂文森通过讲述他与其外婆以及与帕克斯夫人之间的故事，告诉了大家一些美国司法系统中的骇人真相。演讲从讲述大规模的的种族不平等待遇开始：三分之一美国黑人男性有被监禁的经历。这些问题源于美国一段不被重视的历史，它们从未像今天这样被坦诚地，有洞察力地和有说服力地公开讨论过。
Bryan Stevenson - Public-interest lawyer
Bryan Stevenson is the founder and executive director of the Equal Justice Initiative, fighting poverty and challenging racial discrimination in the criminal justice system. Full bio
Bryan Stevenson is the founder and executive director of the Equal Justice Initiative, fighting poverty and challenging racial discrimination in the criminal justice system. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:15
Well this is a really extraordinary honor for me.
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很荣幸来到这里
00:18
I spend most of my time
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我大多数时候都
00:20
in jails, in prisons, on death row.
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在管教所，在监狱里，在死囚室中
00:23
I spend most of my time in very low-income communities
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大部分时间我在低收入的社区里工作
00:26
in the projects and places where there's a great deal of hopelessness.
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在充满绝望的地区，做前途暗淡的项目
00:29
And being here at TED
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今天来到TED
00:31
and seeing the stimulation, hearing it,
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看到听到这些激动人心的演讲
00:33
has been very, very energizing to me.
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给了我一针强心剂
00:35
And one of the things that's emerged in my short time here
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在这短短的时间里，我注意到
00:38
is that TED has an identity.
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TED有自己的定位
00:41
And you can actually say things here
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你可以看到这里发生的事情
00:43
that have impacts around the world.
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影响全世界
00:45
And sometimes when it comes through TED,
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有时当事情发生在TED的讲台上
00:47
it has meaning and power
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比发生在别处
00:49
that it doesn't have when it doesn't.
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更有意义，更有影响
00:52
And I mention that because I think identity is really important.
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我提起这个是因为我觉得自我定位很重要
00:55
And we've had some fantastic presentations.
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我们已经听了一些精彩的演说
00:58
And I think what we've learned
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我们已经体会到
01:00
is that, if you're a teacher your words can be meaningful,
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作为一个老师，你的话是有影响力的
01:02
but if you're a compassionate teacher,
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如果你是个很慈善的老师
01:04
they can be especially meaningful.
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你的教导就格外意味深长
01:06
If you're a doctor you can do some good things,
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作为一个医生，你能够帮助人
01:08
but if you're a caring doctor you can do some other things.
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如果你是个体恤病人的医生，你能帮助更多
01:11
And so I want to talk about the power of identity.
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所以我想讲讲定位的重要性
01:14
And I didn't learn about this actually
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我不是从做律师
01:16
practicing law and doing the work that I do.
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或者做其他项目学到怎样自我定位的
01:18
I actually learned about this from my grandmother.
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我其实是从我外婆那里学到的
01:21
I grew up in a house
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我的家庭
01:23
that was the traditional African-American home
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是一个传统的黑人家庭
01:25
that was dominated by a matriarch,
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只有一个女家长
01:27
and that matriarch was my grandmother.
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就是我的外婆
01:29
She was tough, she was strong,
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她很坚韧， 也很强壮
01:32
she was powerful.
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威风凛凛
01:34
She was the end of every argument in our family.
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家里有争执，她有决定权
01:38
She was the beginning of a lot of arguments in our family.
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不过很多事儿也是她挑起来的
01:41
She was the daughter of people who were actually enslaved.
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她的父母曾是真正的黑奴
01:44
Her parents were born in slavery in Virginia in the 1840's.
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弗吉尼亚州19世纪40年代，她父母落草为奴
01:46
She was born in the 1880's
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我外婆是十九世纪八十年代生的
01:48
and the experience of slavery
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这段父母被奴役的经历
01:50
very much shaped the way she saw the world.
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决定了她看世界的角度
01:53
And my grandmother was tough, but she was also loving.
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我的外婆很强势，但她也很慈爱
01:55
When I would see her as a little boy,
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当我是个小男孩时
01:57
she'd come up to me and she'd give me these hugs.
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每次见到她都拥抱我
01:59
And she'd squeeze me so tight I could barely breathe
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她抱得那么紧，我都透不过气来
02:01
and then she'd let me go.
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然后她才会放开我
02:03
And an hour or two later, if I saw her,
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一两个小时之后，当我再见她
02:05
she'd come over to me and she'd say, "Bryan, do you still feel me hugging you?"
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她会过来问我：“还能感觉我的拥抱么？”
02:08
And if I said, "No," she'd assault me again,
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如果我说“感觉不到了”，她就再度出击
02:10
and if I said, "Yes," she'd leave me alone.
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直到我说“感觉得到”，她才放开我
02:12
And she just had this quality
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她就是有这个能力
02:14
that you always wanted to be near her.
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让你老是想亲近她
02:16
And the only challenge was that she had 10 children.
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唯一的挑战是她有十个儿女
02:19
My mom was the youngest of her 10 kids.
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我妈妈是十个里最年轻的
02:21
And sometimes when I would go and spend time with her,
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常常当我去和外婆亲近时
02:23
it would be difficult to get her time and attention.
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很难让她注意到我，有时间陪我
02:25
My cousins would be running around everywhere.
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我的表兄妹们总是无处不在
02:27
And I remember, when I was about eight or nine years old,
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我记得，当我八九岁时的一次
02:30
waking up one morning, going into the living room,
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我早上醒来，跑到客厅
02:32
and all of my cousins were running around.
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所有的表兄妹都在
02:34
And my grandmother was sitting across the room
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我外婆坐在房间的另一端
02:36
staring at me.
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盯着我看
02:38
And at first I thought we were playing a game.
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一开始我以为我们在玩游戏
02:40
And I would look at her and I'd smile,
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我就看回去，对她笑笑
02:42
but she was very serious.
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但我外婆是很严肃的
02:44
And after about 15 or 20 minutes of this,
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大概十五还是二十分钟之后
02:46
she got up and she came across the room
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她站起来，穿过房间
02:49
and she took me by the hand
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牵住我的手
02:51
and she said, "Come on, Bryan. You and I are going to have a talk."
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对我说：“过来，布莱恩，我们得谈谈。”
02:53
And I remember this just like it happened yesterday.
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这就像是昨天才发生的一样
02:57
I never will forget it.
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我永远忘不掉
02:59
She took me out back and she said, "Bryan, I'm going to tell you something,
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她把我带到一边说：“我想和你说些事，
03:01
but you don't tell anybody what I tell you."
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你不许和任何人说。”
03:03
I said, "Okay, Mama."
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我答应了：“好的，姥姥。”
03:05
She said, "Now you make sure you don't do that." I said, "Sure."
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她说：“保证绝不说出去。”我回答：“保证。”
03:08
Then she sat me down and she looked at me
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然后我们坐下，她看着我
03:11
and she said, "I want you to know
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说：“我想让你知道
03:13
I've been watching you."
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我观察你一段时间了。”
03:16
And she said, "I think you're special."
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接着她说：“你是个特别的孩子。”
03:19
She said, "I think you can do anything you want to do."
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她说：“我确信你是无所不能的。”
03:23
I will never forget it.
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这我永远不会忘记
03:26
And then she said, "I just need you to promise me three things, Bryan."
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接着她说：“我想让你向我保证三件事。”
03:28
I said, "Okay, Mama."
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我说：“好的姥姥。”
03:30
She said, "The first thing I want you to promise me
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她说：“第一，我想让你保证
03:32
is that you'll always love your mom."
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你会永远爱你的妈妈。”
03:34
She said, "That's my baby girl,
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她说：“你妈妈是我的心头肉，
03:36
and you have to promise me now you'll always take care of her."
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你得向我保证你会永远爱护她。”
03:38
Well I adored my mom, so I said, "Yes, Mama. I'll do that."
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我很爱我妈妈，我说：“好，姥姥，我会。”
03:42
Then she said, "The second thing I want you to promise me
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接着她说：“第二件事，是你要答应我
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is that you'll always do the right thing
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你会永远走正路
03:46
even when the right thing is the hard thing."
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即使走正路是很难的选择。”
03:49
And I thought about it and I said, "Yes, Mama. I'll do that."
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我想了想回答：“好的姥姥，我会的。”
03:53
Then finally she said, "The third thing I want you to promise me
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最后她说：“第三件事，我要你保证
03:55
is that you'll never drink alcohol."
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你永不喝酒。”
03:58
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
04:00
Well I was nine years old, so I said, "Yes, Mama. I'll do that."
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我才九岁，我答应：“好，姥姥，我保证。”
04:03
I grew up in the country in the rural South,
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我在南部的乡下长大
04:05
and I have a brother a year older than me and a sister a year younger.
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我有个哥哥大我一岁，还有个妹妹小我一岁
04:08
When I was about 14 or 15,
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当我十四五岁时
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one day my brother came home and he had this six-pack of beer --
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一天我哥哥带回到家半打啤酒——
04:12
I don't know where he got it --
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我都不知道他怎么弄到的——
04:14
and he grabbed me and my sister and we went out in the woods.
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他带上我和我妹妹，跑到树林里
04:16
And we were kind of just out there doing the stuff we crazily did.
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一通疯玩疯跑
04:19
And he had a sip of this beer and he gave some to my sister and she had some,
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他喝了一口啤酒，递给我妹妹，她也喝了
04:22
and they offered it to me.
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然后他们递给了我
04:24
I said, "No, no, no. That's okay. You all go ahead. I'm not going to have any beer."
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我说：“我不要。没事，你们喝。我不喝。”
04:27
My brother said, "Come on. We're doing this today; you always do what we do.
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我哥哥说：“来嘛，我们今个儿都喝。你老是和我们一条阵线的。
04:30
I had some, your sister had some. Have some beer."
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我喝了点，妹妹也喝了点，你来些。”
04:32
I said, "No, I don't feel right about that. Y'all go ahead. Y'all go ahead."
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我说：“不，我不想喝。你们喝你们喝。”
04:34
And then my brother started staring at me.
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我哥哥盯住我
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He said, "What's wrong with you? Have some beer."
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问：“你有什么毛病？喝一点。”
04:39
Then he looked at me real hard and he said,
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接着他细细打量了我一会，问我：
04:41
"Oh, I hope you're not still hung up
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“噢，你不会还想着
04:43
on that conversation Mama had with you."
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姥姥要你保证的事吧。”
04:45
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
04:47
I said, "Well, what are you talking about?"
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我说：“你在说什么呀？”
04:49
He said, "Oh, Mama tells all the grandkids that they're special."
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他说：“姥姥和每个外孙都说他很特别。”
04:52
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
04:55
I was devastated.
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我这个伤心呀
04:57
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
04:59
And I'm going to admit something to you.
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现在我想向大家坦白一件事
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I'm going to tell you something I probably shouldn't.
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可能不该在这里说
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I know this might be broadcast broadly.
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因为这个演讲是会到处播的
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But I'm 52 years old,
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我今年五十二了
05:07
and I'm going to admit to you
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我要向大家承认
05:09
that I've never had a drop of alcohol.
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我从来没有喝过一滴酒
05:12
(Applause)
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（掌声）
05:14
I don't say that because I think that's virtuous;
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这不是为了显派我多有道德
05:17
I say that because there is power in identity.
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是为了说明自我定位的威力
05:21
When we create the right kind of identity,
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当我们决定了正确的定位
05:23
we can say things to the world around us
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我们就可以让全世界接受
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that they don't actually believe makes sense.
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他们本来想不到的事情
05:27
We can get them to do things
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我们能让世界做
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that they don't think they can do.
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他们本来觉得做不到的事情
05:31
When I thought about my grandmother,
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当我想到我的外婆
05:33
of course she would think all her grandkids were special.
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她当然觉得每个外孙都很特别
05:35
My grandfather was in prison during prohibition.
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我的外公因为违了禁在蹲监狱
05:38
My male uncles died of alcohol-related diseases.
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我不止一个舅舅死与和酗酒有关的疾病
05:40
And these were the things she thought we needed to commit to.
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这些原则都是我外婆相信我们应该坚持的
05:43
Well I've been trying to say something
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我想向大家介绍的
05:45
about our criminal justice system.
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是我们刑事执法系统
05:47
This country is very different today
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和四十年前比
05:49
than it was 40 years ago.
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这个国家变了很多
05:51
In 1972, there were 300,000 people in jails and prisons.
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在1972年，监狱里只有三十万人
05:54
Today, there are 2.3 million.
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今天，有两百三十万
05:59
The United States now has the highest rate of incarceration
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今天美国是世界上
06:01
in the world.
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服刑人口比例最高的国家
06:03
We have seven million people on probation and parole.
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我们有七百万人在缓刑期和假释期
06:06
And mass incarceration, in my judgment,
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在我看来，这样的大量判刑
06:09
has fundamentally changed our world.
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完全改变了我们的世界
06:12
In poor communities, in communities of color
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在贫穷的社区里，在有色人种社区里
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there is this despair,
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充满了绝望
06:16
there is this hopelessness,
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这样的绝望
06:18
that is being shaped by these outcomes.
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是由这些改变带来的
06:20
One out of three black men
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三分之一的黑人男性
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between the ages of 18 and 30
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十八岁到三十岁之间的
06:24
is in jail, in prison, on probation or parole.
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不是在监狱里，就是在缓刑期或者假释期
06:27
In urban communities across this country --
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在全国各处的城市社区里——
06:29
Los Angeles, Philadelphia, Baltimore, Washington --
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洛杉矶，费城，巴尔的摩，华盛顿——
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50 to 60 percent of all young men of color are
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百分之五十到六十的有色人种的年轻人
06:35
in jail or prison or on probation or parole.
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不是在监狱里，就是在缓刑期或者假释期
06:38
Our system isn't just being shaped
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我们的司法系统不仅是改变了
06:40
in these ways that seem to be distorting around race,
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而是围绕着种族问题扭曲了
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they're also distorted by poverty.
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也围绕着贫困扭曲了
06:44
We have a system of justice in this country
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这个国家的司法系统
06:47
that treats you much better
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会对你特殊照顾
06:49
if you're rich and guilty than if you're poor and innocent.
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如果你是有罪的富人而不是无辜的穷人的话
06:52
Wealth, not culpability,
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财富，而不是过失本身
06:55
shapes outcomes.
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决定了最终结果
06:57
And yet, we seem to be very comfortable.
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可是，我们还挺自在的呢
07:00
The politics of fear and anger
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玩弄恐惧和愤怒的政治手腕
07:02
have made us believe
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说服了我们
07:04
that these are problems that are not our problems.
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事不关己
07:07
We've been disconnected.
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高高挂起
07:09
It's interesting to me.
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我对这个很感兴趣
07:11
We're looking at some very interesting developments in our work.
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我们日常工作能看一些很有意思的变革
07:13
My state of Alabama, like a number of states,
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我所在的阿拉巴马州，像很多其他州一样
07:15
actually permanently disenfranchises you
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如果你被判有罪
07:17
if you have a criminal conviction.
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就终身剥夺你的政治权力
07:19
Right now in Alabama
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现在在阿拉巴马州
07:21
34 percent of the black male population
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百分之三十四的黑人男性
07:23
has permanently lost the right to vote.
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永远失去了投票权
07:25
We're actually projecting in another 10 years
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我们向前看十年
07:27
the level of disenfranchisement
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这个剥夺政治权利的比例
07:29
will be as high as it's been
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将和投票权法案通过之前
07:31
since prior to the passage of the Voting Rights Act.
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一样的高
07:33
And there is this stunning silence.
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可是没人提半个字
07:37
I represent children.
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我代表孩子们上庭
07:39
A lot of my clients are very young.
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很多我的被告都很年轻
07:41
The United States is the only country in the world
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美国是世界上唯一能将
07:43
where we sentence 13-year-old children
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十三岁的孩子
07:45
to die in prison.
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判成终身监禁的国家
07:47
We have life imprisonment without parole for kids in this country.
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我国对孩子判终身监禁，还不得假释
07:50
And we're actually doing some litigation.
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我们其实现在就在帮这些人上诉
07:52
The only country in the world.
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世界上独一份
07:54
I represent people on death row.
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我也代理死刑犯的官司
07:56
It's interesting, this question of the death penalty.
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死刑这件事很发人深省
07:58
In many ways, we've been taught to think
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我们从各种渠道了解到
08:00
that the real question is,
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（死刑的）根本问题是
08:02
do people deserve to die for the crimes they've committed?
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人该不该为他们犯的罪行偿命
08:05
And that's a very sensible question.
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这是个非常合理的问题
08:07
But there's another way of thinking
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但是另一方面
08:09
about where we are in our identity.
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问题是我们的自我定位
08:11
The other way of thinking about it
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另一个想问题的方式
08:13
is not, do people deserve to die for the crimes they commit,
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不是人们该不该为罪行偿命
08:15
but do we deserve to kill?
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而是我们配不配杀他们
08:17
I mean, it's fascinating.
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我是说，这个问题非常震撼
08:19
Death penalty in America is defined by error.
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死刑在美国是常有差错的
08:22
For every nine people who have been executed,
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每九个被判死刑的人
08:24
we've actually identified one innocent person
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有一个后来会被证明无罪
08:26
who's been exonerated and released from death row.
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被免死刑
08:29
A kind of astonishing error rate --
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这种错误率——
08:32
one out of nine people innocent.
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九分之一的人完全无辜
08:35
I mean, it's fascinating.
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我得说，非常震撼
08:37
In aviation, we would never let people fly on airplanes
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学航空的人知道，如果每九架飞机里
08:40
if for every nine planes that took off
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会有一架出事故
08:42
one would crash.
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我们肯定是不会让这玩意儿载人飞的
08:44
But somehow we can insulate ourselves from this problem.
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但是莫名其妙地我们就能忽视死刑的问题
08:47
It's not our problem.
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因为这不是我们自身的问题
08:49
It's not our burden.
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这不是我们自身的麻烦
08:51
It's not our struggle.
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这不是我们自身的挣扎
08:53
I talk a lot about these issues.
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我谈了很多问题
08:55
I talk about race and this question
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种族，还有
08:57
of whether we deserve to kill.
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我们配不配执行死刑
08:59
And it's interesting, when I teach my students about African-American history,
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这很发人深省。当我教美国黑人历史的时候
09:01
I tell them about slavery.
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我和学生讲奴隶制
09:03
I tell them about terrorism,
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和他们讲恐怖主义
09:05
the era that began at the end of reconstruction
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那个始于大复兴晚期
09:07
that went on to World War II.
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一直到二战时期的时代
09:09
We don't really know very much about it.
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我们并不真的了解那段历史
09:11
But for African-Americans in this country,
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但是对于这个国家的黑人来说
09:13
that was an era defined by terror.
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那是个白色恐怖时代
09:15
In many communities, people had to worry about being lynched.
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在很多社区，人们害怕随时会被私刑处死
09:17
They had to worry about being bombed.
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人们担心随时会被炸弹袭击
09:19
It was the threat of terror that shaped their lives.
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那个白色恐怖时代，改变了他们的生活
09:21
And these older people come up to me now
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那时的人现在上了年纪，来和我说
09:23
and they say, "Mr. Stevenson, you give talks, you make speeches,
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“史蒂文森先生，你到处演讲
09:26
you tell people to stop saying
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你得告诉大家
09:28
we're dealing with terrorism for the first time in our nation's history
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别说什么911以后是我们美国有史以来
09:31
after 9/11."
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第一次对付恐怖主义。”
09:33
They tell me to say, "No, tell them that we grew up with that."
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他们让我说：“我们就是在恐怖里长大的。”
09:36
And that era of terrorism, of course,
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那个恐怖主义的时代，当然了
09:38
was followed by segregation
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最后演变成了无法逾越的鸿沟
09:40
and decades of racial subordination
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数十年的种族歧视
09:42
and apartheid.
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和种族隔离
09:44
And yet, we have in this country this dynamic
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然而，我们这个国家
09:47
where we really don't like to talk about our problems.
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不喜欢讨论存在的问题
09:50
We don't like to talk about our history.
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我们不喜欢讨论历史
09:53
And because of that, we really haven't understood
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正因如此，我们不能真正理解
09:56
what it's meant to do the things we've done historically.
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我们有史以来做了什么
09:59
We're constantly running into each other.
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我们不停地产生冲突
10:01
We're constantly creating tensions and conflicts.
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不停地制造紧张气氛
10:03
We have a hard time talking about race,
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我们没法讨论种族问题
10:06
and I believe it's because we are unwilling to commit ourselves
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我相信是因为我们不愿意正视
10:10
to a process of truth and reconciliation.
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一系列的事实，不愿意达成和解
10:12
In South Africa, people understood
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在南非，人们知道
10:14
that we couldn't overcome apartheid
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我们不能忘记种族隔离
10:16
without a commitment to truth and reconciliation.
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除非我们诚实面对，达成和解
10:18
In Rwanda, even after the genocide, there was this commitment,
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在卢旺达，即使种族灭绝后，人们还是正视了
10:21
but in this country we haven't done that.
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但是在美国我们不愿意这么干
10:23
I was giving some lectures in Germany about the death penalty.
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我也在德国谈过死刑的问题
10:26
It was fascinating
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结果很绝妙
10:28
because one of the scholars stood up after the presentation
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因为在讲谈后有个学者站起来
10:31
and said, "Well you know it's deeply troubling
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说：“你要知道，
10:33
to hear what you're talking about."
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听你谈这个很痛心。”
10:35
He said, "We don't have the death penalty in Germany.
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她说：“我们德国没有死刑。
10:38
And of course, we can never have the death penalty in Germany."
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当然了，我们德国永远也不可能有死刑。”
10:41
And the room got very quiet,
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全场肃静
10:43
and this woman said,
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这位女士说：
10:45
"There's no way, with our history,
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“因为我们的历史，
10:48
we could ever engage
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我们永不可能决定
10:50
in the systematic killing of human beings.
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有系统地杀人。
10:52
It would be unconscionable for us
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公开化且下意识地
10:56
to, in an intentional and deliberate way,
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执行死刑，对我们来说
10:58
set about executing people."
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是良心上无法接受的
11:01
And I thought about that.
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我思考了这个问题
11:03
What would it feel like
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如果我整天
11:05
to be living in a world
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都看着德国人杀人
11:07
where the nation state of Germany was executing people,
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毫无道理地屠杀犹太人
11:10
especially if they were disproportionately Jewish?
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我会有什么感受？
11:12
I couldn't bear it.
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我无法忍受
11:14
It would be unconscionable.
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那真是太不合理了
11:16
And yet, in this country,
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但是，在我们这个国家
11:18
in the states of the Old South,
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在南方各州
11:20
we execute people --
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我们真的在屠杀——
11:22
where you're 11 times more likely to get the death penalty
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当仅仅因为受害人是白人而不是黑人
11:24
if the victim is white than if the victim is black,
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你被判死刑的机率上升十倍时
11:26
22 times more likely to get it
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当仅仅因为被告是黑人而不是白人
11:28
if the defendant is black and the victim is white --
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你被判死刑的机率上升二十一倍时——
11:30
in the very states where there are buried in the ground
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在这些州，到处埋着
11:32
the bodies of people who were lynched.
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被私刑处死的人
11:34
And yet, there is this disconnect.
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可是，我们还是漠不关心
11:38
Well I believe that our identity is at risk.
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我相信这说明我们有定位危机
11:42
That when we actually don't care
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当我们对这些棘手的问题
11:45
about these difficult things,
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置之不顾时
11:48
the positive and wonderful things
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我们却仍旧对那些正面的好事儿
11:50
are nonetheless implicated.
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一如既往地关心
11:53
We love innovation.
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我们爱极了革新
11:55
We love technology. We love creativity.
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我们爱技术，我们爱创造
11:58
We love entertainment.
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我们爱娱乐
12:00
But ultimately,
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但是最终
12:02
those realities
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这些好的现实
12:04
are shadowed by suffering,
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都被痛苦煎熬，
12:07
abuse, degradation,
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滥用职权，剥夺人权
12:09
marginalization.
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边缘化，蒙上了阴影
12:11
And for me, it becomes necessary
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对于我来说两者合一
12:13
to integrate the two.
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是必要的
12:15
Because ultimately we are talking
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因为最终我们谈的
12:17
about a need to be more hopeful,
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是怎么更有希望
12:19
more committed, more dedicated
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更有保障，更有贡献
12:22
to the basic challenges of living in a complex world.
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来应付生活在这个复杂社会中的种种挑战
12:25
And for me that means
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对于我来说那需要
12:28
spending time thinking and talking
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花时间思考和讨论
12:30
about the poor, the disadvantaged,
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穷人阶层，弱势群体
12:33
those who will never get to TED.
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那些永远也没机会来TED的人
12:35
But thinking about them in a way
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不过想着他们其实在某种意义上
12:37
that is integrated in our own lives.
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是把他们融合进我们的生活里
12:39
You know ultimately, we all have to believe things we haven't seen.
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要知道最终，我们得相信那些没亲眼见的事
12:43
We do. As rational as we are, as committed to intellect as we are.
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我们不得不。作为理智的社会，这么聪明的社会
12:47
Innovation, creativity,
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革新，创造
12:49
development comes
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发展，并不仅仅
12:51
not from the ideas in our mind alone.
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在我们脑子里空想出来的
12:53
They come from the ideas in our mind
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它们是从我们脑子里的智慧
12:56
that are also fueled
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和我们心里的信念
12:58
by some conviction in our heart.
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相结合的产物
13:00
And it's that mind-heart connection
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这个灵智合一
13:02
that I believe compels us
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我相信会驱使我们
13:04
to not just be attentive
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不仅仅是对那些
13:06
to all the bright and dazzly things,
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光明的事情更上心
13:09
but also the dark and difficult things.
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同时对那些黑暗面和棘手的事情也是一样
13:12
Vaclav Havel, the great Czech leader, talked about this.
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韦克拉乌·哈韦尔，这位捷克的杰出领导人，谈过这个问题
13:15
He said, "When we were in Eastern Europe and dealing with oppression,
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他说：“当我们在东欧解决强制压迫的问题时
13:18
we wanted all kinds of things,
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我们希望能成就很多
13:20
but mostly what we needed was hope,
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但是最重要的，我们要一个希望
13:22
an orientation of the spirit,
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一个心灵的指向
13:24
a willingness to sometimes be in hopeless places
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一种不惮于体会绝望的态度
13:26
and be a witness."
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以及为史留证的意愿。”
13:28
Well that orientation of the spirit
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这个心灵的指向
13:30
is very much at the core of what I believe
337
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就是我的核心信念
13:33
even TED communities
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我们的TED社会
13:35
have to be engaged in.
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也要参与进来
13:37
There is no disconnect
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这里不应有任何东西把
13:39
around technology and design
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高新的科技和完美的设计
13:42
that will allow us to be fully human
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和我们的人性间隔开来
13:44
until we pay attention to suffering,
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只要我们还能注意到痛苦
13:47
to poverty, to exclusion, to unfairness, to injustice.
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注意到贫穷，制约，不公，和冤屈
13:50
Now I will warn you
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我想提醒大家
13:52
that this kind of identity
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这样的定位
13:54
is a much more challenging identity
347
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是很有挑战性的
13:57
than ones that don't pay attention to this.
348
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比起那些漠不关心的定位来说
13:59
It will get to you.
349
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它会影响你
14:01
I had the great privilege, when I was a young lawyer, of meeting Rosa Parks.
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当我是个年轻律师，我有幸见到帕克斯夫人
14:04
And Ms. Parks used to come back to Montgomery every now and then,
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帕克斯夫人曾时不时会到蒙哥马利
14:07
and she would get together with two of her dearest friends,
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每次她都会和两个好友会面
14:09
these older women,
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两位上了年纪的女性
14:11
Johnnie Carr who was the organizer
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姜妮·卡尔，她是蒙哥马利
14:13
of the Montgomery bus boycott --
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公车抵制运动的组织者——
14:15
amazing African-American woman --
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非常出色的黑人女性——
14:17
and Virginia Durr, a white woman,
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还有弗吉尼亚·杜尔，一位白人女性
14:19
whose husband, Clifford Durr, represented Dr. King.
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她丈夫克利福德·杜尔是马丁·路德·金的律师
14:21
And these women would get together and just talk.
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这些女士们经常聚在一起讨论问题
14:24
And every now and then Ms. Carr would call me,
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有时卡尔夫人会给我打电话
14:26
and she'd say, "Bryan, Ms. Parks is coming to town. We're going to get together and talk.
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问我：“帕克斯夫人回来了，我们要聚聚。
14:29
Do you want to come over and listen?"
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你愿不愿意来听我们谈话？”
14:31
And I'd say, "Yes, Ma'am, I do."
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我会说：“当然，夫人，我愿意。”
14:33
And she'd say, "Well what are you going to do when you get here?"
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她会问：“你来这里具体干什么呀？”
14:35
I said, "I'm going to listen."
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我会说：“我就想听听。”
14:37
And I'd go over there and I would, I would just listen.
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然后我会过去，只是倾听
14:39
It would be so energizing and so empowering.
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这些聚会总是非常激动和鼓舞人心的
14:41
And one time I was over there listening to these women talk,
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有一次我在那里听她们谈话
14:44
and after a couple of hours Ms. Parks turned to me
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几小时后帕克斯夫人问我
14:46
and she said, "Now Bryan, tell me what the Equal Justice Initiative is.
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她问：“布莱恩，和我讲讲你的平等司法倡议。
14:49
Tell me what you're trying to do."
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和我讲讲你打算做什么。”
14:51
And I began giving her my rap.
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我就开始大讲特讲
14:53
I said, "Well we're trying to challenge injustice.
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我说：“我们想向不公正的待遇提出挑战。
14:55
We're trying to help people who have been wrongly convicted.
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我们想帮那些被误判了刑的人。
14:57
We're trying to confront bias and discrimination
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我们想和在刑法制度里的
14:59
in the administration of criminal justice.
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偏见和歧视做对抗。
15:01
We're trying to end life without parole sentences for children.
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给孩子被判终身无法假释的制度给终结掉。
15:04
We're trying to do something about the death penalty.
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我们想为死刑制度做些改变。
15:06
We're trying to reduce the prison population.
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我们想减少监狱人口。
15:08
We're trying to end mass incarceration."
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我们还想杜绝过度泛滥的监禁。”
15:10
I gave her my whole rap, and when I finished she looked at me
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我做了一个全本无删减的演讲，当我结束时，她盯着我
15:12
and she said, "Mmm mmm mmm."
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说：“别别别。”
15:15
She said, "That's going to make you tired, tired, tired."
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她说：“这些会让你很累，很累，很累的。”
15:18
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
15:20
And that's when Ms. Carr leaned forward, she put her finger in my face,
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这时卡尔夫人凑过来，她把手放在我脸边说：
15:22
she said, "That's why you've got to be brave, brave, brave."
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“这就是为什么你要很勇敢很勇敢很勇敢。”
15:28
And I actually believe that the TED community
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我确信TED这个社会
15:31
needs to be more courageous.
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需要更有胆量些
15:33
We need to find ways
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我们需要找到出路
15:35
to embrace these challenges,
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来面对这些挑战
15:37
these problems, the suffering.
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这些问题，这些痛苦
15:39
Because ultimately, our humanity depends
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因为最终，我们的整体的人性取决于
15:42
on everyone's humanity.
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每个人的人性
15:44
I've learned very simple things doing the work that I do.
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在我的工作中
15:46
It's just taught me very simple things.
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我学到了非常简单的原则
15:48
I've come to understand and to believe
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我开始理解，开始相信
15:51
that each of us
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我们每一个人
15:53
is more than the worst thing we've ever done.
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都不会被我们最坏的一面所定义
15:55
I believe that for every person on the planet.
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我相信，对于这个星球上的每一个人
15:58
I think if somebody tells a lie, they're not just a liar.
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如果他撒了个谎，并不说明他就是个骗子
16:01
I think if somebody takes something that doesn't belong to them,
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如果他拿了不属于他的东西
16:03
they're not just a thief.
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并不说明他就是个惯偷
16:05
I think even if you kill someone, you're not just a killer.
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甚至你杀了人，并不说明你就是个冷血杀手
16:08
And because of that there's this basic human dignity
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因为我相信人类有基本的尊严
16:11
that must be respected by law.
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法律必须尊重它
16:13
I also believe
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我也相信
16:15
that in many parts of this country,
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在我们国家的很多地方
16:17
and certainly in many parts of this globe,
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当然甚至这个世界的很多地方
16:21
that the opposite of poverty is not wealth.
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贫穷的反面，不是富裕
16:23
I don't believe that.
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我不相信这个
16:25
I actually think, in too many places,
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我认为，在很多很多地方
16:28
the opposite of poverty is justice.
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贫穷的反面，是公正
16:31
And finally, I believe
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最后，我相信
16:34
that, despite the fact that it is so dramatic
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尽管（我们的科技和设计）很有声色
16:37
and so beautiful and so inspiring
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很美妙，很鼓动人心
16:39
and so stimulating,
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也很刺激
16:41
we will ultimately not be judged by our technology,
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但我们本身最终不会被科技所评价
16:44
we won't be judged by our design,
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也不会被设计所衡量
16:47
we won't be judged by our intellect and reason.
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我们也不会被智慧和哲学来打分
16:50
Ultimately, you judge the character of a society,
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最终，人们会评价我们这个社会
16:53
not by how they treat their rich and the powerful and the privileged,
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不是根据我们怎么款待富人，有特权的人
16:56
but by how they treat the poor,
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而是根据我们怎么对待穷人
16:58
the condemned, the incarcerated.
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被谴责的人，被囚禁的人
17:00
Because it's in that nexus
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因为正是在这个合流点
17:02
that we actually begin to understand truly profound things
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我们真正地开始对于我们是什么样的人
17:05
about who we are.
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有了深入的理解
17:09
I sometimes get out of balance. I'll end with this story.
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我常失去平衡。我想用个故事结束我的演讲
17:11
I sometimes push too hard.
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我有时工作太多
17:13
I do get tired, as we all do.
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很累，就像大家每个人一样
17:15
Sometimes those ideas get ahead of our thinking
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有时这些想法太多而思考跟不上
17:18
in ways that are important.
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结果是很严重的
17:20
And I've been representing these kids
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我曾经为这些孩子们辩护
17:22
who have been sentenced to do these very harsh sentences.
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他们被判了很重的刑
17:24
And I go to the jail and I see my client who's 13 and 14,
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我去管教所，看见我的被告都是十三四岁
17:27
and he's been certified to stand trial as an adult.
435
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他们被说成是成年人，作为成年人对待
17:30
I start thinking, well, how did that happen?
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我开始想，到底是怎么一回事？
17:32
How can a judge turn you into something
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一个法官，怎么能够把一个人
17:34
that you're not?
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判定成一个不同的人？
17:36
And the judge has certified him as an adult, but I see this kid.
439
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这个法官说他是成年人，但我只看见一个孩子
17:39
And I was up too late one night and I starting thinking,
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一天晚上我彻夜难眠，不止地想
17:41
well gosh, if the judge can turn you into something that you're not,
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天哪，如果法官能把你写成另一个人
17:43
the judge must have magic power.
442
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这个法官肯定有魔法
17:45
Yeah, Bryan, the judge has some magic power.
443
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对了，布莱恩，这个法官有魔法
17:48
You should ask for some of that.
444
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你可得学着点
17:50
And because I was up too late, wasn't thinking real straight,
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因为我睡得太晚，脑子不清楚
17:52
I started working on a motion.
446
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我开始做一个议案
17:54
And I had a client who was 14 years old, a young, poor black kid.
447
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我有个被告，十四岁，一个黑人小孩子
17:57
And I started working on this motion,
448
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我开始做他的辩护
17:59
and the head of the motion was: "Motion to try my poor,
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标题是：“提案：将我的
18:01
14-year-old black male client
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十四岁的穷黑孩子
18:03
like a privileged, white 75-year-old
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想成一个七十五岁的特级
18:05
corporate executive."
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白人企业高管。”
18:07
(Applause)
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（掌声）
18:12
And I put in my motion
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在这个提案里
18:14
that there was prosecutorial misconduct and police misconduct and judicial misconduct.
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我说检察院，警察局和法庭都处理不当
18:17
There was a crazy line in there about how there's no conduct in this county,
456
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说这个法院没有合情合法这一说之类的疯话
18:19
it's all misconduct.
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全是故意乱判
18:21
And the next morning, I woke up and I thought, now did I dream that crazy motion,
458
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第二天早上我醒来回想，我是做了个梦呢
18:24
or did I actually write it?
459
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还是真的写了这个提案？
18:26
And to my horror, not only had I written it,
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恐怖的是，不光我真写了
18:28
but I had sent it to court.
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我还寄给法院了
18:30
(Applause)
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（掌声）
18:33
A couple months went by,
463
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几个月过去了
18:36
and I had just forgotten all about it.
464
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我全忘了有这么回事
18:38
And I finally decided,
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最后我决定
18:40
oh gosh, I've got to go to the court and do this crazy case.
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天哪，我得上庭去做这个案子
18:42
And I got into my car
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我跳上车
18:44
and I was feeling really overwhelmed -- overwhelmed.
468
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觉得很紧张——非常紧张
18:46
And I got in my car and I went to this courthouse.
469
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2000
我上车开到法庭
18:48
And I was thinking, this is going to be so difficult, so painful.
470
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我在想，这将会是场硬仗，会很痛苦
18:51
And I finally got out of the car and I started walking up to the courthouse.
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最后我终于钻出车子，开始往法庭走
18:54
And as I was walking up the steps of this courthouse,
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当我上台阶时
18:56
there was an older black man who was the janitor in this courthouse.
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有个上了年纪的黑人老伯，法院的清洁工
18:59
When this man saw me, he came over to me
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他看见我，跑来说
19:01
and he said, "Who are you?"
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他问：“你是谁？”
19:03
I said, "I'm a lawyer." He said, "You're a lawyer?" I said, "Yes, sir."
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我说：“我是律师。”他说：“你，是律师？”我说：“是的。先生。”
19:06
And this man came over to me
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这个老伯凑过来
19:08
and he hugged me.
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给了我一个拥抱
19:10
And he whispered in my ear.
479
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他悄悄在我耳边说
19:12
He said, "I'm so proud of you."
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他说：“我真为你骄傲。”
19:14
And I have to tell you,
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我得和大家承认
19:16
it was energizing.
482
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这可给了我一针强心剂
19:18
It connected deeply with something in me
483
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他的话提醒了我心深处
19:20
about identity,
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我的自我定位
19:22
about the capacity of every person to contribute
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提醒了我每个人都应该
19:25
to a community, to a perspective that is hopeful.
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对社会，对更好的前景做出的贡献
19:27
Well I went into the courtroom.
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所以我跑到法庭里
19:29
And as soon as I walked inside, the judge saw me coming in.
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我一走进去，法官看见我就说：
19:31
He said, "Mr. Stevenson, did you write this crazy motion?"
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“史蒂文森先生，是你写了这个疯案么？”
19:34
I said, "Yes, sir. I did." And we started arguing.
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我说：“是先生，是我写的。”我们开始争论
19:36
And people started coming in because they were just outraged.
491
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人们陆续跑进来，因为大家都愤怒了
19:38
I had written these crazy things.
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我的确写了不少挺够劲的事情
19:40
And police officers were coming in
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警察也进来了
19:42
and assistant prosecutors and clerk workers.
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助理检察官也进来了，书记员也进来了
19:44
And before I knew it, the courtroom was filled with people
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我还没回过神来，整个法庭站满了人
19:46
angry that we were talking about race,
496
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全很愤怒，因为我们在谈种族问题
19:48
that we were talking about poverty,
497
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我们在谈贫穷
19:50
that we were talking about inequality.
498
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我们在谈不平等待遇
19:52
And out of the corner of my eye, I could see this janitor pacing back and forth.
499
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我眼角瞟到那个清洁工，在外面走来走去
19:55
And he kept looking through the window, and he could hear all of this holler.
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不断向里张望，他也都能听到人们的抱怨
19:57
He kept pacing back and forth.
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他就这样来回来去地走
19:59
And finally, this older black man with this very worried look on his face
502
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最后，这个黑人老伯进来了
20:02
came into the courtroom and sat down behind me,
503
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一脸担心地坐在我后面
20:05
almost at counsel table.
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几乎顶到了辩护台
20:07
About 10 minutes later the judge said we would take a break.
505
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十分钟后，法官提议休息一下
20:09
And during the break there was a deputy sheriff who was offended
506
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休息期间，一个副警长觉得清洁工进法庭
20:12
that the janitor had come into court.
507
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2000
有失面子
20:14
And this deputy jumped up and he ran over to this older black man.
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这个副警长跳起来，向这个老伯冲过去
20:16
He said, "Jimmy, what are you doing in this courtroom?"
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说：“吉米，你来法庭里干什么？”
20:19
And this older black man stood up
510
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这个老黑人站起来
20:21
and he looked at that deputy and he looked at me
511
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看看这个副警长，看看我
20:23
and he said, "I came into this courtroom
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他说：“我进来
20:26
to tell this young man,
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是想告诉这个年轻人
20:28
keep your eyes on the prize, hold on."
514
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往前看，往好了看，挺住。”
20:31
I've come to TED
515
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我今天来TED
20:33
because I believe that many of you understand
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是因为我相信这里很多人都明白
20:35
that the moral arc of the universe is long,
517
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这个世界的道德的弧线尽管很长
20:37
but it bends toward justice.
518
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但是永远向着公正的一边倾斜
20:39
That we cannot be full evolved human beings
519
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在我们开始关心人权和尊严之前
20:42
until we care about human rights and basic dignity.
520
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我们无法真正完成进化
20:45
That all of our survival
521
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我们的生存
20:47
is tied to the survival of everyone.
522
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和每一个人的生存都分不开
20:49
That our visions of technology and design
523
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2000
我们在科技和设计上的前景
20:51
and entertainment and creativity
524
1236000
2000
在娱乐和创造力上的眼光
20:53
have to be married with visions
525
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必须与人性，慈善，和公正的远见
20:55
of humanity, compassion and justice.
526
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相结合
20:58
And more than anything,
527
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最重要的是
21:00
for those of you who share that,
528
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对于每个执着此见的人
21:02
I've simply come to tell you
529
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2000
我只想和你说
21:04
to keep your eyes on the prize, hold on.
530
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往前看，往好了看，挺住
21:06
Thank you very much.
531
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谢谢大家
21:08
(Applause)
532
1253000
21000
（掌声）
21:29
Chris Anderson: So you heard and saw
533
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克里斯·安德森：你应该听到看到
21:31
an obvious desire by this audience, this community,
534
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这些听众，这个群体
21:34
to help you on your way and to do something on this issue.
535
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想帮你，想做贡献的意愿了
21:37
Other than writing a check,
536
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除了给你写支票
21:39
what could we do?
537
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我们还能做什么？
21:42
BS: Well there are opportunities all around us.
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布莱恩：有很多机会
21:44
If you live in the state of California, for example,
539
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2000
比如，如果你在加州住
21:46
there's a referendum coming up this spring
540
1291000
2000
今年春天有个公投
21:48
where actually there's going to be an effort
541
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2000
将是个很大的工夫
21:50
to redirect some of the money we spend on the politics of punishment.
542
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3000
关于重新分配我们在惩戒人上花的钱
21:53
For example, here in California
543
1298000
2000
比如，在加州
21:55
we're going to spend one billion dollars
544
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2000
在未来五年内
21:57
on the death penalty in the next five years --
545
1302000
2000
我们将花掉一亿美元——
21:59
one billion dollars.
546
1304000
3000
一亿呀
22:02
And yet, 46 percent of all homicide cases
547
1307000
2000
同时，百分之四十六的凶杀案
22:04
don't result in arrest.
548
1309000
2000
都没有下落
22:06
56 percent of all rape cases don't result.
549
1311000
2000
百分之五十六的强奸案，查不出来
22:08
So there's an opportunity to change that.
550
1313000
2000
这个公投是个改变现状的机会
22:10
And this referendum would propose having those dollars
551
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2000
这个公投将提出把这些钱
22:12
go to law enforcement and safety.
552
1317000
3000
花在执法和保安上
22:15
And I think that opportunity exists all around us.
553
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我认为这个机会我们能帮忙
22:17
CA: There's been this huge decline
554
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克瑞斯：在近三十年
22:19
in crime in America over the last three decades.
555
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3000
美国的犯罪率有个大下降
22:22
And part of the narrative of that
556
1327000
3000
有人说部分原因是
22:25
is sometimes that it's about increased incarceration rates.
557
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和大幅上升的监禁率有关
22:28
What would you say to someone who believed that?
558
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你对持这个说法的人会怎么讲？
22:30
BS: Well actually the violent crime rate
559
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布莱恩：其实犯罪率
22:32
has remained relatively stable.
560
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几乎没怎么变
22:34
The great increase in mass incarceration in this country
561
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这个国家上升的监禁率
22:36
wasn't really in violent crime categories.
562
1341000
3000
并不是在暴力犯罪这一类里的
22:39
It was this misguided war on drugs.
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而是由毒品的滥用所导致的
22:41
That's where the dramatic increases have come
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这才是我们监狱人口
22:43
in our prison population.
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上升的主要原因
22:46
And we got carried away with the rhetoric of punishment.
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我们在花哨的惩戒上走得有点太远了
22:49
And so we have three strikes laws
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同时我们有三击出局的规定
22:51
that put people in prison forever
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能把一些人永久监禁起来
22:53
for stealing a bicycle, for low-level property crimes,
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只是因为偷了辆自行车，或者一点点财物
22:56
rather than making them give those resources back
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我们并不给他们机会对受害人
22:58
to the people who they victimized.
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作出补偿
23:00
I believe we need to do more to help people who are victimized by crime,
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我相信我们需要给犯罪的人更多帮助
23:02
not do less.
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而不是剥夺他们仅有的
23:04
And I think our current punishment philosophy
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我想现今的刑法哲学
23:06
does nothing for no one.
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对谁也没有利
23:08
And I think that's the orientation that we have to change.
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我认为这个大方向应该改变
23:10
(Applause)
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（掌声）
23:12
CA: Bryan, you've struck a massive chord here.
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克里斯：布莱恩，你今天震了大家一把
23:15
You're an inspiring person.
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你真是很个能鼓舞人心的家伙
23:17
Thank you so much for coming to TED. Thank you.
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非常感谢你来TED。谢谢
23:19
(Applause)
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（掌声）
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Bryan Stevenson - Public-interest lawyerBryan Stevenson is the founder and executive director of the Equal Justice Initiative, fighting poverty and challenging racial discrimination in the criminal justice system.
Why you should listen
Bryan Stevenson is a public-interest lawyer who has dedicated his career to helping the poor, the incarcerated and the condemned. He's the founder and executive director of the Equal Justice Initiative, an Alabama-based group that has won major legal challenges eliminating excessive and unfair sentencing, exonerating innocent prisoners on death row, confronting abuse of the incarcerated and the mentally ill, and aiding children prosecuted as adults.
EJI recently won an historic ruling in the U.S. Supreme Court holding that mandatory life-without-parole sentences for all children 17 or younger are unconstitutional. Mr. Stevenson’s work fighting poverty and challenging racial discrimination in the criminal justice system has won him numerous awards. He is a graduate of the Harvard Law School and the Harvard School of Government, and has been awarded 14 honorary doctorate degrees. Bryan is the author of Just Mercy: A Story of Justice and Redemption.
Bryan Stevenson | Speaker | TED.com