TEDSalon NY2013
Esther Perel: The secret to desire in a long-term relationship
Esther Perel: 维系长期关系性欲的奥秘
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在长期关系中，我们通常希望我们的爱人能成为我们的好朋友和性伴侣。但 Esther Perel 认为，良好的、有承诺的性关系源于两种相冲突的需要：安全感和惊喜需要。所以，你将如何维系自己的性欲呢？Perel 将用她的智慧和雄辩的口才和我们一起探索性商的奥秘。
Esther Perel - Relationship therapist
Psychotherapist Esther Perel is changing the conversation on what it means to be in love and have a fulfilling sex life. Full bio
Psychotherapist Esther Perel is changing the conversation on what it means to be in love and have a fulfilling sex life. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:17
So, why does good sex so often fade,
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为何性爱的激情那么容易褪色？
00:20
even for couples who continue to love each other as much as ever?
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就算是那些爱得如胶似漆的夫妇也无一例外。
00:25
And why does good intimacy not guarantee good sex,
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为何亲密的爱情也无法维持激情的色彩呢？
00:28
contrary to popular belief?
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这和我们普遍对性生活与爱情的关系的认知相违背。
00:31
Or, the next question would be,
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或者说，换第二个问题:
00:33
can we want what we already have?
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我们能留住我们现有的性生活频率吗？
00:35
That's the million-dollar question, right?
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这可是个很值得研究的问题，对吧?
00:38
And why is the forbidden so erotic?
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再者，为什么偷腥会令人如此激情彭拜?
00:40
What is it about transgression that makes desire so potent?
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又是什么东西令人在偷尝云雨之情时有如此旺盛的性欲呢？
00:44
And why does sex make babies,
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又是为何性爱孕育了儿女
00:46
and babies spell erotic disaster in couples?
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而儿女却最终反过来却成为夫妻性爱的灾难呢？
00:50
It's kind of the fatal erotic blow, isn't it?
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这对于性欲可是种致命的打击，不是么？
00:52
And when you love, how does it feel?
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还有，当你爱时，你有什么感受?
00:55
And when you desire, how is it different?
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并且当你产生欲望时，这种感受又会有什么不同的变化?
00:58
These are some of the questions
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这些都是
01:00
that are at the center of my exploration
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我今天想要探讨的问题
01:02
on the nature of erotic desire
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-----探索现代爱情中人类的原始性冲动
01:05
and its concomitant dilemmas in modern love.
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和其伴随而来的困境
01:09
So I travel the globe,
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为了这一研究，我去了很多国家
01:11
and what I'm noticing is that
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而我注意到
01:13
everywhere where romanticism has entered,
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凡是浪漫的国度
01:16
there seems to be a crisis of desire.
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都面临着性欲消退的危机。
01:19
A crisis of desire, as in owning the wanting --
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欲望消退危机----正如我们的需要一样,
01:24
desire as an expression of our individuality,
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性欲作为我们对自身个体的表达：
01:27
of our free choice, of our preferences, of our identity --
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是对于我们的自由选择、偏好和身份的一种需要
01:30
desire that has become a central concept
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性欲已经成为
01:34
as part of modern love and individualistic societies.
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现代爱情和崇尚个人主义的社会的核心概念
01:37
You know, this is the first time in the history of humankind
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要知道，这是人类历史上首次
01:40
where we are trying to experience sexuality in the long term,
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我们长期体验性爱
01:46
not because we want 14 children,
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不是为了生一大堆孩子,比如说14个。
01:50
for which we need to have even more because many of them won't make it,
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-----或许我们部分人可能要生养育更多，以防很多可能会夭折，
01:54
and not because it is exclusively a woman's marital duty.
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也不是源于女人生儿育女的天职。
01:59
This is the first time that we want sex over time
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人类第一次将我需要性的观点超越了仅仅是体内的性欲在作怪
02:03
about pleasure and connection that is rooted in desire.
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是因为性爱能给人们带来愉悦和稳定的关系。
02:08
So what sustains desire, and why is it so difficult?
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那么,究竟是什么在维持着人的性欲?而维持性欲为何又这么难呢？
02:11
And at the heart of sustaining desire in a committed relationship,
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要维持夫妻关系中的性欲的关键
02:16
I think is the reconciliation of two fundamental human needs.
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我认为在于协调两种人类的基本需求。
02:22
On the one hand, our need for security, for predictability,
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一方面，是我们对安全、可预测性、
02:27
for safety, for dependability, for reliability, for permanence --
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安全感、可靠性、可依赖感和对永恒的需要。
02:35
all these anchoring, grounding experiences of our lives
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所有这些生活中能为我们提供所需的厚实而安稳的体验的地方
02:38
that we call home.
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就是我们所说的"家"。
02:39
But we also have an equally strong need -- men and women --
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但同时, 无论男女, 我们,还有另一种强烈的需要
02:44
for adventure, for novelty, for mystery, for risk, for danger,
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---那就是对冒险，对新奇事物，神秘、危险、风险
02:49
for the unknown, for the unexpected, surprise --
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以及对未知有的、预料之外和惊喜的渴望。
02:53
you get the gist -- for journey, for travel.
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我的意思是我们喜欢出游，旅行
02:57
So reconciling our need for security
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这就意味着在一段关系中，要协调我们对安稳感的需求
02:59
and our need for adventure into one relationship,
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和对猎奇的需要，
03:02
or what we today like to call a passionate marriage,
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我们今天称之为 “有激情的婚姻”
03:05
used to be a contradiction in terms.
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过去曾是相互矛盾的的两个方面
03:07
Marriage was an economic institution
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婚姻曾经是一种经济制度
03:10
in which you were given a partnership for life
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你可以从中获得某种合作关系,
03:14
in terms of children and social status
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它一般以孩子，社会地位
03:16
and succession and companionship.
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继承权以及同伴的形式出现。
03:19
But now we want our partner to still give us all these things,
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可如今，我们在希望我们的伴侣可以继续提供这些的同时
03:23
but in addition I want you to be my best friend
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又要求他们成为我们的知己
03:26
and my trusted confidant and my passionate lover to boot,
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做我们可交心的伴侣和激情四射的情人
03:29
and we live twice as long.
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甚至还想长生不老呢
03:30
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
03:33
So we come to one person, and we basically are asking them
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所以,当我碰到我们的另一半时，我们简直在向对方要求
03:37
to give us what once an entire village used to provide:
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给我们这些过去原本一整个村庄才能提供的东西：
03:41
Give me belonging, give me identity, give me continuity,
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如财产，名份，至死不渝的忠贞爱情,
03:45
but give me transcendence and mystery and awe all in one.
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同时你还得让我觉得你是卓尔不群，有神秘感和有敬畏心。
03:49
Give me comfort, give me edge.
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安抚我的同时带给我刺激。
03:51
Give me novelty, give me familiarity.
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给我新鲜感的同时又要保持亲密。
03:52
Give me predictability, give me surprise.
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让我过安稳的日子的同时还要能给我惊喜。
03:55
And we think it's a given, and toys and lingerie are going to save us with that.
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多数人认为这是奉献，性玩具和性感睡衣就能解决这些问题。
03:59
(Applause)
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（掌声）
04:04
So now we get to the existential reality of the story, right?
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现在我们应该说清楚性爱激情的现实部分了,对吧?
04:08
Because I think, in some way -- and I'll come back to that --
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我觉得，从某种角度讲-- 一会我们再会回到这个话题
04:14
but the crisis of desire is often a crisis of the imagination.
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其实欲望危机就是想象力的危机。
04:18
So why does good sex so often fade?
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那么为什么美妙的性爱体验容易消散呢？
04:21
What is the relationship between love and desire?
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爱和欲之间的联系到底是什么呢？
04:24
How do they relate, and how do they conflict?
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它们是怎样联系起来的，又是怎么相互冲突的呢？
04:27
Because therein lies the mystery of eroticism.
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横亘在这两者之间的是性欲的奥秘。
04:30
So if there is a verb, for me, that comes with love, it's "to have."
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如果要我用一个动词来描述爱，那就是“拥有"
04:34
And if there is a verb that comes with desire, it is "to want."
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而对于性欲,我想用"索求"来描述最恰当不过了。
04:39
In love, we want to have, we want to know the beloved.
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在爱情中，我们想要拥有，我们想要了解我们的爱人
04:42
We want to minimize the distance. We want to contract that gap.
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我们想腻在一起，想跨越阻碍
04:47
We want to neutralize the tensions. We want closeness.
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我们想调和不安的情绪，我们想亲密无间。
04:51
But in desire, we tend to not really want to go back to the places we've already gone.
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而在性欲方面，我们不想回到我们已经经历过的地方。
04:56
Forgone conclusion does not keep our interest.
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过时的结论提不起我们的兴趣。
05:00
In desire, we want an Other, somebody on the other side that we can go visit,
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在性欲方面，我们想找的是我们的另一半，一个在彼岸,一个我们想去探索的另一半。
05:05
that we can go spend some time with,
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一个我们想呆在一起的另一半
05:07
that we can go see what goes on in their red light district.
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和一个我们能探索其瘾秘的内心世界的另一半
05:11
In desire, we want a bridge to cross.
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在性欲中，我们想找的是一座沟通的桥梁。
05:15
Or in other words, I sometimes say, fire needs air.
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换言之，“一个巴掌拍不响啊”
05:18
Desire needs space.
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性欲也需要空间。
05:20
And when it's said like that, it's often quite abstract.
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这样说或许有点抽象吧。
05:24
But then I took a question with me.
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带着一个问题
05:25
And I've gone to more than 20 countries in the last few years
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几年间我带着"Mating in Captivity" 这本书走访了20多个国家
05:28
with "Mating in Captivity," and I asked people,
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每到一处，我都会问人们:
05:31
when do you find yourself most drawn to your partner?
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"你什么时候最喜欢和爱人呆在一起？"
05:34
Not attracted sexually, per se, but most drawn.
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我说的是呆在一起而不是一起性爱
05:37
And across culture, across religion, and across gender --
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来自不同文化、不同地区、不同性别的人
05:41
except for one -- there are a few answers that just keep coming back.
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除一个有点例外，其它人给我的回答不外如是
05:46
So the first group is: I am most drawn to my partner
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第一组：最想和爱人在一起的时候
05:51
when she is away, when we are apart, when we reunite.
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是爱人不在身边的时候、是分开的时候或是小别重逢时。
05:57
Basically, when I get back in touch
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也就是，当我能用我的想象力
06:01
with my ability to imagine myself with my partner,
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想像我和爱人在一起的时候，
06:05
when my imagination comes back in the picture,
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当我的想像力能回到这方面来的时候，
06:07
and when I can root it in absence and in longing,
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当爱人不在而我又想要的时候
06:12
which is a major component of desire.
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这就是性欲的主要组成部分
06:15
But then the second group is even more interesting:
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然而，另一组回答更有趣。
06:18
I am most drawn to my partner
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我最想和爱人在一起的时候
06:20
when I see him in the studio, when she is onstage,
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是当我看到他在录影棚工作、在舞台上表演的时候、
06:24
when he is in his element, when she's doing something she's passionate about,
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当他在做正经事的时候、当他在做她感兴趣的事情的时候，
06:28
when I see him at a party and other people are really drawn to him,
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当我看到他在party上谜倒一大堆人的时候
06:32
when I see her hold court.
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当她开庭的时候。
06:34
Basically, when I look at my partner radiant and confident,
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一般而言，当我看到我的爱人光芒四射而又自信的时候
06:38
probably the biggest turn-on across the board.
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这就是最大的刺激物了。
06:42
Radiant, as in self-sustaining.
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光芒四射，在自我维系中也如此。
06:44
I look at this person -- by the way, in desire
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在欲望中， 我看这个人
06:47
people rarely talk about it, when we are blended into one,
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人们很少谈论这些, 当我们粘在一起的时候
06:50
five centimeters from each other. I don't know in inches how much that is.
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也就是相隔5厘米左右的时候---说实在的我不知道是几厘米
06:53
But it's also not when the other person is that far apart
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但是,这种分别并不是说相隔太远
06:57
that you no longer see them.
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以至于以后都不能相见。
06:58
It's when I'm looking at my partner from a comfortable distance,
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而是我能在一个比较合适的距离看着我爱的人
07:02
where this person that is already so familiar, so known,
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那个我熟悉和相知的，
07:07
is momentarily once again somewhat mysterious, somewhat elusive.
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还带有点神秘,有点难以捉摸的人。
07:12
And in this space between me and the other lies the erotic élan,
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我和爱人之间的距离成了一条性欲的纽带
07:16
lies that movement toward the other.
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也造成了我们的相互走动
07:19
Because sometimes, as Proust says,
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因为有时候，正如Proust说的那样
07:21
mystery is not about traveling to new places,
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发现奥秘不一定要到一个新的地方去，
07:24
but it's about looking with new eyes.
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而只要我们有新视角就行。
07:26
And so, when I see my partner on his own or her own,
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所以，当我们看到我们的另一半独自
07:30
doing something in which they are enveloped,
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在忙自己的事的时候。
07:32
I look at this person and I momentarily get a shift in perception,
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看着他我会对他有一种新的了解和认识，
07:37
and I stay open to the mysteries that are living right next to me.
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而我对我身过的一些奥秘是常怀着关注之情的。
07:42
And then, more importantly, in this description about the other
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更重要的是，对别人的了解
07:47
or myself -- it's the same -- what is most interesting
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或者对自己的了解, 都一样.
07:51
is that there is no neediness in desire.
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最有趣的是，这不需要性欲。
07:53
Nobody needs anybody.
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没有谁需要谁。
07:55
There is no caretaking in desire.
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性欲不存在谁照顾谁的问题。
07:58
Caretaking is mightily loving. It's a powerful anti-aphrodisiac.
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照顾是一种了不起的大爱，是一种强大的崔情药
08:03
I have yet to see somebody who is so turned on
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我还看到一些人的性欲
08:05
by somebody who needs them.
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是被那些需要他们的人唤起的
08:07
Wanting them is one thing. Needing them is a shutdown,
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想要是一回事，但需要会令人性趣索然
08:10
and women have known that forever,
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这点女人最清楚了，
08:12
because anything that will bring up parenthood
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因为任何母性有关的东西
08:15
will usually decrease the erotic charge.
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都会降低性欲。
08:18
For good reasons, right?
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很有道理，是不是?
08:20
And then the third group of answers usually would be
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第三类回答是:
08:24
when I'm surprised, when we laugh together,
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当我感到惊喜时，当我们一起大笑时会性趣大发，
08:28
as somebody said to me in the office today,
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比如说，今天有人在我的办公室告诉我，
08:30
when he's in his tux, so I said, you know,
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当他穿着无尾半正式晚礼服时最有感觉了
08:32
it's either the tux or the cowboy boots.
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其实性欲与晚礼服或牛仔靴无关
08:35
But basically it's when there is novelty.
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而是与猎奇有关。
08:39
But novelty isn't about new positions. It isn't a repertoire of techniques.
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但新奇并不只意味着新的体位，也不是五花八门的性爱技巧
08:43
Novelty is, what parts of you do you bring out?
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新奇是,你将自已的哪一面展现出来？
08:47
What parts of you are just being seen?
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你的哪一面你的爱人熟悉？
08:50
Because in some way one could say
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因为在某种程度上，我们会说
08:52
sex isn't something you do, eh?
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性交并不专指性交活动，对吧?
08:54
Sex is a place you go. It's a space you enter
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性交过程其实像你在去一个地方
08:57
inside yourself and with another, or others.
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是一个进入自己或对方体内的过程。
09:00
So where do you go in sex?
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因此，性交时何去何从？
09:03
What parts of you do you connect to?
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你们身体的哪一部分有接触?
09:05
What do you seek to express there?
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你们想在那里表达些什么？
09:07
Is it a place for transcendence and spiritual union?
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那是一个表现性爱技巧和精神合一的地方吗？
09:10
Is it a place for naughtiness and is it a place to be safely aggressive?
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那是一个俏皮掏蛋的地方呢还是一个略带点侵略性质的地方呢？
09:15
Is it a place where you can finally surrender
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还是一个你最后放弃
09:17
and not have to take responsibility for everything?
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不想负责任的地方呢?
09:20
Is it a place where you can express your infantile wishes?
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它是不是一个你可以表达你孩子气的地方呢？
09:23
What comes out there? It's a language.
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性爱到底是什么？ 其实性交是一种语言。
09:25
It isn't just a behavior.
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不是一种行为。
09:28
And it's the poetic of that language that I'm interested in,
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而我，正是对这一充满诗意的性交语言感兴趣
09:31
which is why I began to explore this concept of erotic intelligence.
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这就是为什么我要探讨"性商"这一概念。
09:35
You know, animals have sex.
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要知道，动物也性交。
09:37
It's the pivot, it's biology, it's the natural instinct.
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而动物的性交是传宗接代的，是生物的，是一种自然的天性。
09:40
We are the only ones who have an erotic life,
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人类是唯一过性生活的物种，
09:43
which means that it's sexuality transformed by the human imagination.
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所谓性生活完全是人类想象出来的东西
09:49
We are the only ones who can make love for hours,
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人类也是唯一能持续几个小时做爱
09:53
have a blissful time, multiple orgasms,
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有幸福时光，有多次高潮
09:56
and touch nobody, just because we can imagine it.
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而没有身体抚摸的动物，因为人类能想象出这些东西。
10:00
We can hint at it. We don't even have to do it.
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我们可以用意念来交欢，根本就不用直接的身体接触。
10:03
We can experience that powerful thing called anticipation,
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我们能体验强大的性期待
10:06
which is a mortar to desire,
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那可是性欲的动机，
10:09
the ability to imagine it, as if it's happening,
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能想得到的，它就可以是发生的
10:12
to experience it as if it's happening, while nothing is happening
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能体验到好像正在发生的，而实际上却没发生任何事
10:16
and everything is happening at the same time.
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所有这些都可以同时发生
10:19
So when I began to think about eroticism,
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所以，当我想到性兴奋时，
10:21
I began to think about the poetics of sex,
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我就会想到性爱的美妙。
10:25
and if I look at it as an intelligence,
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而如果我把它看作一种“智商”
10:27
then it's something that you cultivate.
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那么，它就应该是你应该培养的东西。
10:29
What are the ingredients? Imagination, playfulness,
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性商包括什么呢？想象力、情趣、
10:34
novelty, curiosity, mystery.
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新鲜感、好奇心和神秘感。
10:37
But the central agent is really that piece called the imagination.
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但其核心是想象力。
10:42
But more importantly, for me to begin to understand
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但更重要的是，如果说我要弄清楚
10:45
who are the couples who have an erotic spark,
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哪些夫妇有性火花，
10:48
what sustains desire, I had to go back
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什么东西方维系着性爱, 我必须得回顾一下
10:50
to the original definition of eroticism,
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性爱的最原始的定义,
10:53
the mystical definition, and I went through it
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这一最神秘的定义，我经历过的
10:56
through a bifurcation by looking actually at trauma,
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以一种分岐，通过创伤来看
10:59
which is the other side, and I looked at it
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这就是另一面，让我来看看
11:02
looking at the community that I had grown up in,
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看看我成长的社区
11:04
which was a community in Belgium, all Holocaust survivors,
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那是一个在比利时的社区，所有人都是大屠杀的幸存者
11:08
and in my community there were two groups:
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在这个社区里，有两类人：
11:11
those who didn't die, and those who came back to life.
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一类是没有死过的，另一类是死后重生的
11:15
And those who didn't die lived often very tethered to the ground,
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那些没死过的人一般都很现实
11:18
could not experience pleasure, could not trust,
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无法体会快感，不信任人
11:22
because when you're vigilant, worried, anxious,
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因为他们过于谨慎、杞人忧天、焦虑
11:24
and insecure, you can't lift your head
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没有安全感，不能自信地
11:27
to go and take off in space and be playful and safe and imaginative.
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在性爱中解放自我，没有情趣，没安全感也缺乏想象力。
11:32
Those who came back to life were those
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那些劫后余生的人
11:35
who understood the erotic as an antidote to death.
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他们把性事当作忘却死亡的解药。
11:38
They knew how to keep themselves alive.
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他们知道怎样让自己活下去。
11:41
And when I began to listen to the sexlessness of the couples that I work with,
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当我听到我的那些无性生活的同事的故事时
11:45
I sometimes would hear people say, "I want more sex,"
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有时我听到别人说：我想要更多的性生活。
11:48
but generally people want better sex,
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但很多时候，人们更在意性生活的质量,
11:51
and better is to reconnect with that quality of aliveness,
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最好的是能过传统意义上性生活能提供给他们的活力、
11:54
of vibrancy, of renewal, of vitality, of eros, of energy
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新鲜感、动感、和充满动力的性爱
11:58
that sex used to afford them, or that they've hoped
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或者他们希望
12:01
it would afford them.
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能得到这性爱。
12:03
And so I began to ask a different question.
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所以，我会问另一个问题：
12:06
"I shut myself off when ..." began to be the question.
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我何时不会有性欲。
12:11
"I turn off my desires when ..." which is not the same question as,
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我何时会压制自已的性欲。
12:14
"What turns me off is ..." and "You turn me off when ..."
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是什么令我毫无性欲。你何时令我性欲全无。
12:18
And people began to say, "I turn myself off when
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人们会回答说：当我心死时、当我不再喜欢我自己的身体时
12:21
I feel dead inside, when I don't like my body,
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我对性也就没有任何兴趣了。
12:24
when I feel old, when I haven't had time for myself,
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当我感觉自己老了，当我没有自己的时间了，
12:27
when I haven't had a chance to even check in with you,
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当我没机会和你去开房时，
12:30
when I don't perform well at work,
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当我工作毫无业绩可言时，
12:31
when I feel low self esteem, when I don't have a sense of self-worth,
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当我没有了自尊、当我觉得没有了个人价值时，
12:35
when I don't feel like I have a right to want, to take,
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当我觉得我已经没有权力去想，去获得
12:38
to receive pleasure."
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和去接受这种快感受时
12:40
And then I began to ask the reverse question.
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然后，我会反过来问：
12:43
"I turn myself on when ..." Because most of the time,
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我何时会性趣大发。因为很多时候
12:45
people like to ask the question, "You turn me on,
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人们喜欢问这类问题：你令我兴奋
12:48
what turns me on," and I'm out of the question. You know?
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什么使我兴奋? 我不可能兴奋的，对吧？
12:52
Now, if you are dead inside, the other person can do a lot of things for Valentine's.
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但如果你已经心死了，你的另一半可以为你们的情人节做很多事啊！
12:56
It won't make a dent. There is nobody at the reception desk.
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没有人知道的， 前台没有人呢。
12:59
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
13:00
So I turn myself on when,
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所以，我让自己兴奋
13:03
I turn my desires, I wake up when ...
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我唤醒自己的性欲，我起来时。。。
13:07
Now, in this paradox between love and desire,
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在爱与欲这对矛盾体里
13:12
what seems to be so puzzling is that the very ingredients
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令人不解的是那些滋润着爱的养分------
13:15
that nurture love -- mutuality, reciprocity,
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相依相伴、互惠、
13:20
protection, worry, responsibility for the other --
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爱护有加、担心、和为对方肩负起来的责任
13:24
are sometimes the very ingredients that stifle desire.
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这些东西有时也会抑制性欲。
13:28
Because desire comes with a host of feelings
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因为，性欲来自于一系列的
13:32
that are not always such favorites of love:
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并非全是爱的情感：
13:36
jealousy, possessiveness, aggression, power, dominance,
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比如说妒忌、占有欲、冒犯、权力、支配
13:40
naughtiness, mischief.
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俏皮、捣蛋等等。
13:42
Basically most of us will get turned on at night
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一般来说，大多数人晚上都会有性兴奋
13:45
by the very same things that we will demonstrate against during the day.
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其实白天也一样可能会有性兴奋
13:49
You know, the erotic mind is not very politically correct.
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性想法在政治上不算很合适
13:52
If everybody was fantasizing on a bed of roses,
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如果每个人都能躺在床上想着满床的玖瑰
13:55
we wouldn't be having such interesting talks about this.
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那我们今天就没有必要来听这个演讲了。
13:59
But no, in our mind up there
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但其实并不然，在我们心底的某个角落,
14:01
are a host of things going on that we don't always know
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有着一些我们不知道的东西
14:05
how to bring to the person that we love,
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不知道怎么样将这些东西告诉我们的爱人，
14:07
because we think love comes with selflessness
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这是因为，我们认为爱是自私的，
14:10
and in fact desire comes with a certain amount of selfishness
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而性欲在很大程度上出于我们的自私
14:14
in the best sense of the word:
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如果说非得这么说的话
14:15
the ability to stay connected to one's self
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自私就是和别人在一起的时候
14:18
in the presence of another.
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只顾自我的感受。
14:20
So I want to draw that little image for you,
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所以，让我稍为概括一下
14:23
because this need to reconcile these two sets of needs,
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因为这需要调和一下我们与生俱来的东西
14:27
we are born with that.
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这两种需要。
14:28
Our need for connection, our need for separateness,
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也就是联系的需要，分离的需要
14:31
or our need for security and adventure,
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或者安全和冒险的需要
14:33
or our need for togetherness and for autonomy,
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团聚的需要、自我管理的需要
14:36
and if you think about the little kid who sits on your lap
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如果你想像一下，有个小孩坐在你大腿上
14:39
and who is cozily nested here and very secure and comfortable,
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他舒服地坐在那里，既安全又舒适
14:43
and at some point all of us need to go out into the world
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而在某种程度上，我们每个人都需要走出去
14:47
to discover and to explore.
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去发现、去探索.
14:50
That's the beginning of desire,
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这就是性欲的来源,
14:51
that exploratory needs curiosity, discovery.
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探索需要好奇心和发现。
14:56
And then at some point they turn around and they look at you,
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然后，在某时，他们会转过身来问看着你，
15:00
and if you tell them,
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如果你对他们说：
15:02
"Hey kiddo, the world's a great place. Go for it.
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“嘿，老兄，这个世界太美妙了，去享受它吧”
15:04
There's so much fun out there,"
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那儿有太多乐趣了。
15:06
then they can turn away and they can experience
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然后他们会去探索，同时去体验
15:09
connection and separateness at the same time.
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团聚和分离。
15:11
They can go off in their imagination, off in their body,
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他们会开动想象力和调动他们的身体
15:14
off in their playfulness, all the while knowing
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动起嬉闹的念想，想着
15:17
that there's somebody when they come back.
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回至家时爱人在等待。
15:20
But if on this side there is somebody who says,
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但也有人会说：
15:22
"I'm worried. I'm anxious. I'm depressed.
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我很担心、我很焦虑、我感到无比压抑
15:26
My partner hasn't taken care of me in so long.
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我和爱人很久都不理不睬了。
15:28
What's so good out there? Don't we have everything
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那里有什么好呢？我们两人在一起不就什么都有了吗？
15:31
you need together, you and I?"
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就你和我？
15:33
then there are a few little reactions
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这就会引起一引起小反应
15:35
that all of us can pretty much recognize.
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我们很多人都能识别
15:38
Some of us will come back, came back a long time ago,
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我们有些人会回到从前，很久很久以前
15:43
and that little child who comes back
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那些想要回到从前的小孩
15:45
is the child who will forgo a part of himself
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就是那些想放弃部分自我的小孩
15:48
in order not to lose the other.
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为了不失去对方
15:51
I will lose my freedom in order not to lose connection.
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要想不失去爱，我就得失去自由
15:54
And I will learn to love in a certain way
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而我又得学会用某种方式去爱
15:57
that will become burdened with extra worry
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这会导致我们过度担心、
16:01
and extra responsibility and extra protection,
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过大的责任和过度的保护而不堪重负
16:05
and I won't know how to leave you
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而我又不知道怎么放手
16:07
in order to go play, in order to go experience pleasure,
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让你去享受、去体验快感，
16:11
in order to discover, to enter inside myself.
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让你去发现，去进入我的内心世界
16:14
Translate this into adult language.
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这要用成年人的语言来理解。
16:17
It starts very young. It continues into our sex lives
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性欲从我们很小时候就有，它会陪我们进入我们的性生活期
16:21
up to the end.
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直至我们老死。
16:22
Child number two comes back
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第二个孩子回来
16:25
but looks like that over their shoulder all the time.
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但伏在他们的肩上。
16:27
"Are you going to be there?
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你快到了吗？
16:30
Are you going to curse me? Are you going to scold me?
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你会诅骂我吗？你会责备我吗？
16:31
Are you going to be angry with me?"
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你会生我的气吗？
16:33
And they may be gone, but they're never really away,
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这些或许都不见了，但他们永远都不会远离，
16:37
and those are often the people that will tell you,
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这些就是人们常会和你说的
16:39
in the beginning it was super hot.
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开始时会很狂热。
16:41
Because in the beginning, the growing intimacy
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因为刚开始时，亲密感
16:45
wasn't yet so strong
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还没有这么强烈
16:47
that it actually led to the decrease of desire.
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而恰恰是亲密会削弱性欲。
16:50
The more connected I became, the more responsible I felt,
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联系越紧密，觉得责任越大
16:54
the less I was able to let go in your presence.
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越不会放手让你走
16:57
The third child doesn't really come back.
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第三个孩子不会真正的回来
17:00
So what happens, if you want to sustain desire,
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那会怎样？如果你想保持性欲
17:03
it's that real dialectic piece.
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这是一种真正的辩证法。
17:05
On the one hand you want the security in order to be able to go.
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一方面，为了享受性爱，你需要安全感。
17:09
On the other hand if you can't go, you can't have pleasure,
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3752
另一方面，如果你没有性爱，你不会享受到快感，
17:13
you can't culminate, you don't have an orgasm,
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不会有性亢奋，不会有高潮
17:16
you don't get excited because you spend your time
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你不会兴奋，因为你花太多的时间在别人的身体上
17:18
in the body and the head of the other and not in your own.
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或心理上，而忽略了自己的身体和想法。
17:21
So in this dilemma about reconciling
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因此，在妥协的两难中，
17:25
these two sets of fundamental needs,
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这两种基本的需要，
17:28
there are a few things that I've come to understand erotic couples do.
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让我解理了性福夫妇的一些做法。
17:32
One, they have a lot of sexual privacy.
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首先，他们有很多性瘾私。
17:35
They understand that there is an erotic space
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他们明白各人都应该有
17:37
that belongs to each of them.
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各自的空间。
17:40
They also understand that foreplay is not something you do
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他们也清楚前戏并不是
17:43
five minutes before the real thing.
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你在性交前5分钟所做的事。
17:45
Foreplay pretty much starts at the end of the previous orgasm.
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前戏应该从你上一次高潮结束之后就开始了。
17:48
They also understand that an erotic space
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他们同时也明白，性爱空间并不是
17:51
isn't about, you begin to stroke the other.
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你开始抚摸对方
17:53
It's about you create a space where you leave Management Inc.,
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性爱是指你开设一个空间，就象经营一间大公司一样
17:57
maybe where you leave the agile program,
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在那里有你灵活的管理计划。
18:00
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
18:01
and you actually just enter that place
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而你实际上只进入那个地方
18:04
where you stop being the good citizen
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然后像个好市民一样停下来
18:07
who is taking care of things and being responsible.
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谁来处理这些问题，谁来为这负责任。
18:09
Responsibility and desire just butt heads.
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责任和性欲俩都只能硬碰硬
18:13
They don't really do well together.
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他们不会合作。
18:15
Erotic couples also understand that passion waxes and wanes.
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有性福的夫妇也明白，激情会慢慢退化。
18:20
It's pretty much like the moon. It has intermittent eclipses.
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性欲这东西就很像月亮一样有阴晴圆缺。
18:23
But what they know is they know how to resurrect it.
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但是，他们知道怎么恢复它。
18:26
They know how to bring it back,
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他们知道怎么样让它再美满起来。
18:28
and they know how to bring it back
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他们能这样做是
18:29
because they have demystified one big myth,
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因为他们打破了一个神话
18:31
which is the myth of spontaneity, which is
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那个自然说的神话，
18:34
that it's just going to fall from heaven while you're folding the laundry
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性欲可能会在你的折叠衣物时突然出现
18:38
like a deus ex machina, and in fact they understood
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就像从天而降一样，豪无征兆，而事实上，他们明白
18:41
that whatever is going to just happen
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无论发生什么
18:43
in a long-term relationship already has.
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在一个长期的关系中
18:46
Committed sex is premeditated sex.
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有承诺的性爱是有预谋的性爱
18:49
It's willful. It's intentional.
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是自愿的、你情我愿的
18:52
It's focus and presence.
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是投入的和确实存在的
18:55
Merry Valentine's.
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情人节快乐
18:57
(Applause)
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(掌声）
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Esther Perel - Relationship therapistPsychotherapist Esther Perel is changing the conversation on what it means to be in love and have a fulfilling sex life.
Why you should listen
For the first time in human history, couples aren’t having sex just to have kids; there’s room for sustained desire and long-term sexual relationships. But how? Perel, a licensed marriage and family therapist with a practice in New York, travels the world to help people answer this question. For her research she works across cultures and is fluent in nine languages. She coaches, consults and speaks regularly on erotic intelligence, trauma, sexual honesty and conflict resolution. She is the author of Mating in Captivity: Reconciling the Erotic and the Domestic. Her latest work focuses on infidelity: what it is, why happy people do it and how couples can recover from it. She aims to locate this very personal experience within a larger cultural context.
Esther Perel | Speaker | TED.com