TEDSalon NY2013
Esther Perel: The secret to desire in a long-term relationship
Esther Perel: Ključ do poželenja v dolgotrajnem razmerju
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V dolgotrajnih razmerjih od ljubljenega pogosto pričakujemo, da bo tako naš najboljši prijatelj kot tudi erotični partner. A kot izpostavi Esther Perel, dober in predan seks temelji na dveh nasprotujočih si potrebah: naše potrebe po varnosti in naše potrebe po presenečenju. Kako ohranjati poželenje? Perel nam na hudomušen in zgovoren način razkrije skrivnost erotične inteligence.
Esther Perel - Relationship therapist
Psychotherapist Esther Perel is changing the conversation on what it means to be in love and have a fulfilling sex life. Full bio
Psychotherapist Esther Perel is changing the conversation on what it means to be in love and have a fulfilling sex life. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:17
So, why does good sex so often fade,
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Zakaj dober seks tako pogosto postane medel
00:20
even for couples who continue to love each other as much as ever?
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tudi za pare, ki se imajo še vedno tako radi kot prej?
00:25
And why does good intimacy not guarantee good sex,
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Zakaj dobra intimnost ne zagotavlja dobrega seksa,
00:28
contrary to popular belief?
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kar nasprotuje splošnemu prepričanju?
00:31
Or, the next question would be,
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Ali, kar bi bilo naslednje vprašanje,
00:33
can we want what we already have?
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si lahko želimo tega, kar že imamo?
00:35
That's the million-dollar question, right?
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To je vprašanje za milijon dolarjev, kajne?
00:38
And why is the forbidden so erotic?
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Zakaj je prepovedano tako erotično?
00:40
What is it about transgression that makes desire so potent?
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Zakaj prekoračitev mej tako zelo okrepi poželenje?
00:44
And why does sex make babies,
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Zakaj pri seksu nastanejo otroci,
00:46
and babies spell erotic disaster in couples?
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ti pa pri parih povzročijo erotično katastrofo?
00:50
It's kind of the fatal erotic blow, isn't it?
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To je nekakšen smrtni erotični udarec, kajne?
00:52
And when you love, how does it feel?
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Kadar ljubimo, kakšen je ta občutek?
00:55
And when you desire, how is it different?
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Kadar si želimo, kako je to drugače?
00:58
These are some of the questions
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To so nekatera izmed vprašanj,
01:00
that are at the center of my exploration
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ki so glavna za moje raziskovanje
01:02
on the nature of erotic desire
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narave erotičnega poželenja
01:05
and its concomitant dilemmas in modern love.
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in spremljajočih dilem v sodobni ljubezni.
01:09
So I travel the globe,
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Potujem po svetu
01:11
and what I'm noticing is that
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in opažam,
01:13
everywhere where romanticism has entered,
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da povsod, kjer najdemo romantiko,
01:16
there seems to be a crisis of desire.
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obstaja nekakšna kriza poželenja.
01:19
A crisis of desire, as in owning the wanting --
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Kriza poželenja, kar pomeni priznati, da si želimo
01:24
desire as an expression of our individuality,
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poželenja -- da bi z njim izrazil svojo individualnost,
01:27
of our free choice, of our preferences, of our identity --
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svojo svobodno izbiro, svoje preference in svojo identiteto --
01:30
desire that has become a central concept
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poželenje, ki je postalo osrednja zamisel
01:34
as part of modern love and individualistic societies.
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in del sodobne ljubezni v individualističnih družbah.
01:37
You know, this is the first time in the history of humankind
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Veste, to je prvič v zgodovini človeštva,
01:40
where we are trying to experience sexuality in the long term,
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da poskušamo doživeti spolnost na dolgi rok,
01:46
not because we want 14 children,
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ne ker bi hoteli 14 otrok,
01:50
for which we need to have even more because many of them won't make it,
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ker bi jih morali imeti še več, saj jih večina ne bi preživela,
01:54
and not because it is exclusively a woman's marital duty.
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in ne ker bi bila to izključna dolžnost poročene ženske.
01:59
This is the first time that we want sex over time
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To je prvič, da si želimo dolgotrajnega seksa
02:03
about pleasure and connection that is rooted in desire.
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zaradi užitka in povezanosti, ki je zakoreninjena v poželenju.
02:08
So what sustains desire, and why is it so difficult?
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Kaj ohranja poželenje in zakaj je to tako težko?
02:11
And at the heart of sustaining desire in a committed relationship,
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Mislim, da je v središču ohranjanja poželenja v dolgotrajnem razmerju
02:16
I think is the reconciliation of two fundamental human needs.
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uskladitev dveh osnovnih človeških potreb.
02:22
On the one hand, our need for security, for predictability,
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Na eni strani je naša potreba po varnosti, predvidljivosti,
02:27
for safety, for dependability, for reliability, for permanence --
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zanesljivosti, gotovosti, trajnosti,
02:35
all these anchoring, grounding experiences of our lives
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kar so vse prizemljujoče, trdne izkušnje v našem življenju,
02:38
that we call home.
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ki jim pravimo dom.
02:39
But we also have an equally strong need -- men and women --
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Poleg tega pa imamo enako močno potrebo -- tako moški kot ženske --
02:44
for adventure, for novelty, for mystery, for risk, for danger,
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po avanturah, novostih, skrivnostnosti, tveganju, nevarnosti,
02:49
for the unknown, for the unexpected, surprise --
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neznanem, nepričakovanem, presenečenju --
02:53
you get the gist -- for journey, for travel.
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saj razumete -- po potovanjih.
02:57
So reconciling our need for security
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Usklajevanje naše potrebe po varnosti
02:59
and our need for adventure into one relationship,
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in naše potrebe po pustolovščinah v enem razmerju,
03:02
or what we today like to call a passionate marriage,
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kar je to, čemur danes pravimo strasten zakon,
03:05
used to be a contradiction in terms.
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je bilo nekoč v protislovju.
03:07
Marriage was an economic institution
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Zakon je bil ekonomska ustanova,
03:10
in which you were given a partnership for life
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v kateri ste dobili doživljenjsko partnerstvo
03:14
in terms of children and social status
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v smislu otrok, socialnega statusa,
03:16
and succession and companionship.
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nasledstva in družabništva.
03:19
But now we want our partner to still give us all these things,
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Danes pa želimo, da nam partner še vedno nudi vse te stvari,
03:23
but in addition I want you to be my best friend
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poleg tega pa želimo, da so naši najboljši prijatelji,
03:26
and my trusted confidant and my passionate lover to boot,
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zaupniki in povrhu še strastni ljubimci,
03:29
and we live twice as long.
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živimo pa dvakrat dlje.
03:30
(Laughter)
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(smeh)
03:33
So we come to one person, and we basically are asking them
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Pristopimo do človeka in jih pravzaprav prosimo,
03:37
to give us what once an entire village used to provide:
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da nam dajo, kar nam je nekoč nudila celotna vas;
03:41
Give me belonging, give me identity, give me continuity,
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daj mi pripadanje, daj mi identiteto, daj mi doslednost,
03:45
but give me transcendence and mystery and awe all in one.
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a obenem mi daj tudi izvrstnost, skrivnostnost in spoštovanje.
03:49
Give me comfort, give me edge.
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Daj mi udobje, daj mi ostrino.
03:51
Give me novelty, give me familiarity.
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Daj mi novost, daj mi poznanost.
03:52
Give me predictability, give me surprise.
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Daj mi predvidljivost, daj mi presenečenje.
03:55
And we think it's a given, and toys and lingerie are going to save us with that.
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Mislimo, da je to samo po sebi dano in da nas bodo rešile igračke in perilo.
03:59
(Applause)
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(aplavz)
04:04
So now we get to the existential reality of the story, right?
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Zdaj smo prišli do eksistencialne resničnosti v zgodbi, kajne?
04:08
Because I think, in some way -- and I'll come back to that --
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Mislim, da na nek način -- in k temu se bom vrnila --
04:14
but the crisis of desire is often a crisis of the imagination.
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je kriza poželenja pogosto kriza domišljije.
04:18
So why does good sex so often fade?
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Zakaj dober seks tako pogosto postane medel?
04:21
What is the relationship between love and desire?
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Kakšno je razmerje med ljubeznijo in poželenjem?
04:24
How do they relate, and how do they conflict?
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Kako sta povezana in kako si nasprotujeta?
04:27
Because therein lies the mystery of eroticism.
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V tem leži skrivnost erotike.
04:30
So if there is a verb, for me, that comes with love, it's "to have."
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Če zame obstaja glagol, ki je povezan z ljubeznijo, je to "imeti".
04:34
And if there is a verb that comes with desire, it is "to want."
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Če obstaja glagol, ki je povezan s poželenjem, je to "želeti".
04:39
In love, we want to have, we want to know the beloved.
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V ljubezni želimo imeti, želimo poznati ljubljenega.
04:42
We want to minimize the distance. We want to contract that gap.
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Hočemo zmanjšati razdaljo. Hočemo premostiti vrzel.
04:47
We want to neutralize the tensions. We want closeness.
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Hočemo nevtralizirati napetost. Hočemo bližino.
04:51
But in desire, we tend to not really want to go back to the places we've already gone.
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V poželenju pa si po navadi ne želimo nazaj na kraje, kjer smo že bili.
04:56
Forgone conclusion does not keep our interest.
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Ne zanima nas več predvidljivi izid.
05:00
In desire, we want an Other, somebody on the other side that we can go visit,
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V poželenju si želimo nekaj drugega, nekoga na drugi strani, ki ga lahko obiščemo,
05:05
that we can go spend some time with,
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s katerim lahko preživimo nekaj časa,
05:07
that we can go see what goes on in their red light district.
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pri katerem lahko obiščemo njegovo rdečo četrt.
05:11
In desire, we want a bridge to cross.
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V poželenju si želimo vrzeli, ki jo je treba premostiti.
05:15
Or in other words, I sometimes say, fire needs air.
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Včasih povem to drugače; ogenj potrebuje zrak.
05:18
Desire needs space.
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Poželenje potrebuje prostor.
05:20
And when it's said like that, it's often quite abstract.
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Ko to rečemo tako, pogosto zveni abstraktno.
05:24
But then I took a question with me.
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Potem sem to vprašanje vzela s seboj.
05:25
And I've gone to more than 20 countries in the last few years
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V zadnjih nekaj letih sem bila v več kot 20 državah
05:28
with "Mating in Captivity," and I asked people,
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s "Parjenjem v ujetništvu" in ljudi sem vprašala,
05:31
when do you find yourself most drawn to your partner?
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kdaj se jim njihov partner zdi najbolj privlačen.
05:34
Not attracted sexually, per se, but most drawn.
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Niti ne spolno, ampak da jih najbolj privlačijo.
05:37
And across culture, across religion, and across gender --
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Ne glede na kulturo, vero, spol
05:41
except for one -- there are a few answers that just keep coming back.
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-- razen enega -- so se pogosto pojavljali nekateri odgovori.
05:46
So the first group is: I am most drawn to my partner
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Prva skupina je bila: "Moj partnerka me najbolj privlači,
05:51
when she is away, when we are apart, when we reunite.
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ko je odsotna, ko sva narazen, ko se spet združiva.
05:57
Basically, when I get back in touch
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Ko zopet vzpostavim stik
06:01
with my ability to imagine myself with my partner,
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z zmožnostjo, da si sebe predstavljam s partnerjem,
06:05
when my imagination comes back in the picture,
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moja domišljija spet oživi
06:07
and when I can root it in absence and in longing,
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in ko lahko najdem osnovo poželenja v odsotnosti in hrepenenju,
06:12
which is a major component of desire.
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kar je velik del poželenja."
06:15
But then the second group is even more interesting:
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Druga skupina je še bolj zanimiva:
06:18
I am most drawn to my partner
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"Moj partner me najbolj privlači,
06:20
when I see him in the studio, when she is onstage,
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ko ga vidim v studiu, ko je na odru,
06:24
when he is in his element, when she's doing something she's passionate about,
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ko je v svojem elementu, ko počne nekaj, glede česa je strasten,
06:28
when I see him at a party and other people are really drawn to him,
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ko ga vidim na zabavi in res privlači druge ljudi,
06:32
when I see her hold court.
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ko je pod žarometi.
06:34
Basically, when I look at my partner radiant and confident,
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Kadar torej vidim partnerja, ko je žareč in samozavesten,
06:38
probably the biggest turn-on across the board.
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je to najbolj seksi reč.
06:42
Radiant, as in self-sustaining.
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Žareč in neodvisen.
06:44
I look at this person -- by the way, in desire
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To osebo pogledam -- mimogrede, pri poželenju
06:47
people rarely talk about it, when we are blended into one,
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ljudje redko govorijo o tem, kadar smo združeni v eno,
06:50
five centimeters from each other. I don't know in inches how much that is.
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pet centimetrov drug od drugega. Ne vem, koliko je to v inčih.
06:53
But it's also not when the other person is that far apart
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In ne zgodi se takrat, ko je človek tako daleč stran,
06:57
that you no longer see them.
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da ga ne vidiš več.
06:58
It's when I'm looking at my partner from a comfortable distance,
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To se zgodi, ko partnerja vidimo z dobre razdalje,
07:02
where this person that is already so familiar, so known,
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ko človek, ki je tako znan, tako domač,
07:07
is momentarily once again somewhat mysterious, somewhat elusive.
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za trenutek zopet postane nekako skrivnosten, izmikajoč se."
07:12
And in this space between me and the other lies the erotic élan,
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V tem prostoru med nama leži erotični elan,
07:16
lies that movement toward the other.
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ta sila, ki vleče proti drugemu.
07:19
Because sometimes, as Proust says,
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Včasih, kot pravi Proust,
07:21
mystery is not about traveling to new places,
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skrivnostnost ni v potovanju na nove kraje,
07:24
but it's about looking with new eyes.
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ampak v gledanju z novimi očmi.
07:26
And so, when I see my partner on his own or her own,
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Ko partnerja torej vidim samega,
07:30
doing something in which they are enveloped,
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ko zavzeto počne nekaj,
07:32
I look at this person and I momentarily get a shift in perception,
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pogledam tega človeka in za trenutek dobim drugačno perspektivo
07:37
and I stay open to the mysteries that are living right next to me.
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in se odprem skrivnostnosti, ki živi poleg mene.
07:42
And then, more importantly, in this description about the other
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Bolj pomembno pa je, da v tem opisu drugega,
07:47
or myself -- it's the same -- what is most interesting
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ali sebe -- to je enako -- je najbolj zanimivo,
07:51
is that there is no neediness in desire.
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da pri poželenju ni nobenega potrebovanja.
07:53
Nobody needs anybody.
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Nihče ne potrebuje nikogar.
07:55
There is no caretaking in desire.
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V poželenju ni oskrbovanja.
07:58
Caretaking is mightily loving. It's a powerful anti-aphrodisiac.
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Oskrbovanje je močno ljubeče. To je močan antiafrodizijak.
08:03
I have yet to see somebody who is so turned on
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Nisem še videla, da bi nekoga vzburilo dejstvo,
08:05
by somebody who needs them.
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da ga nekdo potrebuje.
08:07
Wanting them is one thing. Needing them is a shutdown,
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Želeti si nekoga je druga stvar. Potrebovati pa je blokada
08:10
and women have known that forever,
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in ženske se tega zavedajo že celo večnost,
08:12
because anything that will bring up parenthood
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ker, karkoli spominja na starševstvo,
08:15
will usually decrease the erotic charge.
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po navadi zmanjša erotični naboj.
08:18
For good reasons, right?
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Za to obstajajo dobri razlogi, kajne?
08:20
And then the third group of answers usually would be
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Tretja skupina odgovorov bi po navadi bila:
08:24
when I'm surprised, when we laugh together,
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"Ko sem presenečen, ko se skupaj smejeva."
08:28
as somebody said to me in the office today,
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Nekdo mi je danes v pisarni rekel:
08:30
when he's in his tux, so I said, you know,
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"Ko je v smokingu." Na to sem dejala:
08:32
it's either the tux or the cowboy boots.
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"Vedno je ali smoking ali kavbojski škornji."
08:35
But basically it's when there is novelty.
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Pravzaprav gre za novosti.
08:39
But novelty isn't about new positions. It isn't a repertoire of techniques.
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A novost niso novi položaji ali repertoar tehnik.
08:43
Novelty is, what parts of you do you bring out?
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Novost je v tem, katere dele sebe pokažete.
08:47
What parts of you are just being seen?
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Katere dele ste pokazali šele zdaj?
08:50
Because in some way one could say
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Na nek način bi lahko dejali,
08:52
sex isn't something you do, eh?
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da seks ni nekaj, kar počnemo, kaj?
08:54
Sex is a place you go. It's a space you enter
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Seks je kraj, ki ga obiščemo. Je prostor, v katerega vstopimo
08:57
inside yourself and with another, or others.
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v samem sebi in to z drugim, ali drugimi.
09:00
So where do you go in sex?
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Kam greste pri seksu?
09:03
What parts of you do you connect to?
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S katerimi deli sebe se povežete?
09:05
What do you seek to express there?
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Kaj si želite izraziti?
09:07
Is it a place for transcendence and spiritual union?
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Gre za premoč ali duševno zvezo?
09:10
Is it a place for naughtiness and is it a place to be safely aggressive?
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Gre za porednost in ali je to kraj, kjer je varno biti agresiven?
09:15
Is it a place where you can finally surrender
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Je to kraj, kjer se lahko predate
09:17
and not have to take responsibility for everything?
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in ne prevzemate odgovornosti za vse?
09:20
Is it a place where you can express your infantile wishes?
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Je to kraj, kjer lahko izrazite svoje otročje želje?
09:23
What comes out there? It's a language.
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Kaj pride na plan? To je jezik.
09:25
It isn't just a behavior.
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Ni le vedenje.
09:28
And it's the poetic of that language that I'm interested in,
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Zanima me poetičnost tega jezika,
09:31
which is why I began to explore this concept of erotic intelligence.
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zaradizato sem začela raziskovati to idejo erotične inteligence.
09:35
You know, animals have sex.
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Veste, živali seksajo.
09:37
It's the pivot, it's biology, it's the natural instinct.
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Vse se vrti okoli tega, je biološko, naravni instinkt.
09:40
We are the only ones who have an erotic life,
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Mi smo edini, ki imamo erotično življenje,
09:43
which means that it's sexuality transformed by the human imagination.
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kar pomeni, da človeška domišljija preobrazi spolnost.
09:49
We are the only ones who can make love for hours,
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Mi smo edini, ki se lahko ljubimo več ur,
09:53
have a blissful time, multiple orgasms,
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se imamo božansko, večkratne orgazme,
09:56
and touch nobody, just because we can imagine it.
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ne da bi se kogarkoli dotaknili, ker si to lahko predstavljamo.
10:00
We can hint at it. We don't even have to do it.
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Lahko namignemo na to. Tega nam ni treba niti storiti.
10:03
We can experience that powerful thing called anticipation,
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Doživimo lahko to močno stvar, ki ji pravimo pričakovanje,
10:06
which is a mortar to desire,
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in ki je sestavni del strasti.
10:09
the ability to imagine it, as if it's happening,
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Zmožnost predstavljati si, da se dogaja,
10:12
to experience it as if it's happening, while nothing is happening
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doživljati, kot da se dogaja, kadar se nič ne dogaja
10:16
and everything is happening at the same time.
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in se obenem dogaja vse.
10:19
So when I began to think about eroticism,
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Ko sem pričela premišljevati o erotiki,
10:21
I began to think about the poetics of sex,
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sem pričela premišljevati o poeziji seksa.
10:25
and if I look at it as an intelligence,
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Če to pogledam kot nekakšno inteligenco,
10:27
then it's something that you cultivate.
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je to nekaj, kar gojimo.
10:29
What are the ingredients? Imagination, playfulness,
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Katere so sestavine? Domišljija, igrivost,
10:34
novelty, curiosity, mystery.
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novosti, radovednost, skrivnostnost.
10:37
But the central agent is really that piece called the imagination.
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A osrednji dejavnik je delček, ki mu pravimo domišljija.
10:42
But more importantly, for me to begin to understand
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Da bi lahko razumela,
10:45
who are the couples who have an erotic spark,
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kdo so pari, ki imajo erotično iskrico,
10:48
what sustains desire, I had to go back
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kaj ohranja poželenje, sem se morala vrniti
10:50
to the original definition of eroticism,
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k izvirni definiciji erotike,
10:53
the mystical definition, and I went through it
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skrivnostni definiciji. Čez njo sem se prebila tako,
10:56
through a bifurcation by looking actually at trauma,
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da sem si pogledala travmo,
10:59
which is the other side, and I looked at it
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ki je bila nekaj drugačnega. To sem si ogledala tako,
11:02
looking at the community that I had grown up in,
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da sem raziskala skupnost, v kateri sem odrasla,
11:04
which was a community in Belgium, all Holocaust survivors,
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to je bila skupnost preživelih holokavsta v Belgiji.
11:08
and in my community there were two groups:
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V tej skupnosti sta bili dve skupini:
11:11
those who didn't die, and those who came back to life.
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tisti, ki niso umrli, in tisti, ki so ponovno oživeli.
11:15
And those who didn't die lived often very tethered to the ground,
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Tisti, ki niso umrli, so pogosto bili zelo pobiti,
11:18
could not experience pleasure, could not trust,
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niso mogli izkusiti užitka, niso mogli zaupati,
11:22
because when you're vigilant, worried, anxious,
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ker, ko si pazljiv, prestrašen, zaskrbljen
11:24
and insecure, you can't lift your head
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in negotov, ne moreš dvigniti glave,
11:27
to go and take off in space and be playful and safe and imaginative.
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da bi odletel v vesolje in bil igriv, varen in iznajdljiv.
11:32
Those who came back to life were those
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Tisti, ki so ponovno oživeli, so bili tisti,
11:35
who understood the erotic as an antidote to death.
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ki so razumeli, da je erotika protistrup smrti.
11:38
They knew how to keep themselves alive.
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Vedeli so, kako same sebe ohranjati žive.
11:41
And when I began to listen to the sexlessness of the couples that I work with,
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Ko sem začela poslušati o pomanjkanju spolnosti parov, s katerimi sem delala,
11:45
I sometimes would hear people say, "I want more sex,"
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sem včasih slišala: "Želim si več seksa."
11:48
but generally people want better sex,
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A ljudje si po navadi želijo boljšega seksa
11:51
and better is to reconnect with that quality of aliveness,
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in boljše pomeni, da ponovno vzpostaviš vez z živostjo,
11:54
of vibrancy, of renewal, of vitality, of eros, of energy
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živahnostjo, obnovitvijo, vitalnostjo, libidom, energijo,
11:58
that sex used to afford them, or that they've hoped
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ki jih je včasih nudil seks, ali za katere so upali,
12:01
it would afford them.
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da jim jih bo nudil.
12:03
And so I began to ask a different question.
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Zato sem začela postavljati drugačna vprašanja.
12:06
"I shut myself off when ..." began to be the question.
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Vprašanje je postalo: "Zaprem se vase, ko ..."
12:11
"I turn off my desires when ..." which is not the same question as,
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"Svoje poželenje ugasnem, ko ..." kar ni enako kot:
12:14
"What turns me off is ..." and "You turn me off when ..."
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"Ohladim se, ko ..." in "Moje vzburjenje ugasneš, ko ..."
12:18
And people began to say, "I turn myself off when
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Ljudje so začeli govoriti: "Ohladim se,
12:21
I feel dead inside, when I don't like my body,
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ko se znotraj počutim mrtvega, ko mi ni všeč moje telo,
12:24
when I feel old, when I haven't had time for myself,
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ko se počutim starega, ko nisem imel časa zase,
12:27
when I haven't had a chance to even check in with you,
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ko nisem imel niti priložnosti, da te pokličem,
12:30
when I don't perform well at work,
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ko mi ne gre v službi,
12:31
when I feel low self esteem, when I don't have a sense of self-worth,
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ko imam nizko samozavest, ko ne cenim samega sebe,
12:35
when I don't feel like I have a right to want, to take,
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ko mislim, da si nimam pravice želeti, vzeti
12:38
to receive pleasure."
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in dobiti užitek."
12:40
And then I began to ask the reverse question.
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Nato sem začela obračati vprašanje.
12:43
"I turn myself on when ..." Because most of the time,
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"Sam sebe vzburim, ko ..." Ker po navadi
12:45
people like to ask the question, "You turn me on,
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ljudje radi sprašujejo: "Ti me vzburiš,
12:48
what turns me on," and I'm out of the question. You know?
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kaj me vzburi," in nisem več del vprašanja. Razumete?
12:52
Now, if you are dead inside, the other person can do a lot of things for Valentine's.
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Če se znotraj počutiš mrtvega, lahko druga oseba stori mnogo stvari na valentinovo,
12:56
It won't make a dent. There is nobody at the reception desk.
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a to ne bo imelo učinka. Nobenega ni na recepciji.
12:59
(Laughter)
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(smeh)
13:00
So I turn myself on when,
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Sama sebe vzburim, ko ...
13:03
I turn my desires, I wake up when ...
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Prižgem svoje poželenje, zbudim se, ko ...
13:07
Now, in this paradox between love and desire,
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Pri tem paradoksu med ljubeznijo in poželenjem
13:12
what seems to be so puzzling is that the very ingredients
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je begajoče, da prav te sestavine,
13:15
that nurture love -- mutuality, reciprocity,
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ki hranijo ljubezen -- skupnost, vzajemnost,
13:20
protection, worry, responsibility for the other --
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zaščita, skrb, odgovornost za drugega --
13:24
are sometimes the very ingredients that stifle desire.
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so ravno te sestavine, ki gasijo poželenje.
13:28
Because desire comes with a host of feelings
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Poželenje spremlja skupina čustev,
13:32
that are not always such favorites of love:
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ki niso vedno priljubljeni v ljubezni:
13:36
jealousy, possessiveness, aggression, power, dominance,
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ljubosumje, posesivnost, agresija, moč, dominantnost,
13:40
naughtiness, mischief.
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porednost, nagajivost.
13:42
Basically most of us will get turned on at night
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Večino izmed nas bo ponoči vzburilo to,
13:45
by the very same things that we will demonstrate against during the day.
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proti čemur bomo protestirali čez dan.
13:49
You know, the erotic mind is not very politically correct.
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Veste, erotični um ni politično korekten.
13:52
If everybody was fantasizing on a bed of roses,
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Če bi vsi fantazirali o postelji prekriti z vrtnicami,
13:55
we wouldn't be having such interesting talks about this.
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ne bi imeli teh zanimivih pogovorov.
13:59
But no, in our mind up there
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Ampak ni tako. V naših možganih
14:01
are a host of things going on that we don't always know
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je ogromno reči, za katere včasih ne vemo,
14:05
how to bring to the person that we love,
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kako bi jih omenili človeku, ki ga ljubimo,
14:07
because we think love comes with selflessness
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ker mislimo, da je ljubezen nesebična.
14:10
and in fact desire comes with a certain amount of selfishness
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Res pa je, da poželenje spremlja določna mera sebičnosti
14:14
in the best sense of the word:
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v najboljšem pomenu besede:
14:15
the ability to stay connected to one's self
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zmožen ostati povezan sam s sabo
14:18
in the presence of another.
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v prisotnosti drugega.
14:20
So I want to draw that little image for you,
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Rada bi vam to prikazala nazorno,
14:23
because this need to reconcile these two sets of needs,
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saj se rodimo s potrebo, da bi uskladili
14:27
we are born with that.
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te dve skupini potreb.
14:28
Our need for connection, our need for separateness,
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Naša potreba po povezanosti, naša potreba po ločenosti,
14:31
or our need for security and adventure,
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ali naša potreba po varnosti in pustolovščini
14:33
or our need for togetherness and for autonomy,
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ali naša potreba po skupnosti in samostojnosti.
14:36
and if you think about the little kid who sits on your lap
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Pomislite na otroka, ki vam sedi v naročju,
14:39
and who is cozily nested here and very secure and comfortable,
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udobno je nameščen in zelo varen.
14:43
and at some point all of us need to go out into the world
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Slej ko prej moramo vsi iti v svet,
14:47
to discover and to explore.
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da raziskujemo in odkrivamo.
14:50
That's the beginning of desire,
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To je pričetek poželenja,
14:51
that exploratory needs curiosity, discovery.
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potrebe po raziskovanju, radovednosti, odkrivanju.
14:56
And then at some point they turn around and they look at you,
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Nekega dne se otrok obrne in vas pogleda,
15:00
and if you tell them,
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in če mu rečete:
15:02
"Hey kiddo, the world's a great place. Go for it.
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"Hej, mali, svet je krasen. Kar daj.
15:04
There's so much fun out there,"
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Zunaj je obilo zabave,"
15:06
then they can turn away and they can experience
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se lahko obrne stran in doživi
15:09
connection and separateness at the same time.
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povezanost in odtujenost obenem.
15:11
They can go off in their imagination, off in their body,
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Lahko odpotuje z domišljijo, s telesom,
15:14
off in their playfulness, all the while knowing
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z igrivostjo in ves čas ve,
15:17
that there's somebody when they come back.
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da ga nekdo čaka, ko se vrne.
15:20
But if on this side there is somebody who says,
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A če je na tej strani nekdo, ki reče:
15:22
"I'm worried. I'm anxious. I'm depressed.
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"Skrbi me. Živčen sem. Depresiven sem.
15:26
My partner hasn't taken care of me in so long.
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2034
Moj partner že dolgo ni poskrbel zame.
15:28
What's so good out there? Don't we have everything
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Kaj je dobrega tam zunaj? Ali nimava vsega,
15:31
you need together, you and I?"
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kar potrebuješ, skupaj, jaz in ti?"
15:33
then there are a few little reactions
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Potem se zgodi serija malih odzivov,
15:35
that all of us can pretty much recognize.
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ki jih lahko prepoznamo skorajda vsi.
15:38
Some of us will come back, came back a long time ago,
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Nekateri se bomo vrnili, smo se vrnili dolgo časa nazaj
15:43
and that little child who comes back
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in ta mali otrok, ki pride nazaj,
15:45
is the child who will forgo a part of himself
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je otrok, ki je zavrgel delček sebe,
15:48
in order not to lose the other.
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da ne bi izgubil drugega.
15:51
I will lose my freedom in order not to lose connection.
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Izgubil bom svojo svobodo, da ne bi izgubil povezanosti.
15:54
And I will learn to love in a certain way
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Naučil se bom ljubiti na način,
15:57
that will become burdened with extra worry
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ki bo še bolj otežen zaradi dodatnih skrbi,
16:01
and extra responsibility and extra protection,
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dodatne odgovornosti in dodatne zaščite.
16:05
and I won't know how to leave you
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Ne bom te znal zapustiti,
16:07
in order to go play, in order to go experience pleasure,
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da bi se igral, da bi doživel ugodje,
16:11
in order to discover, to enter inside myself.
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da bi odkrival, da bi vstopil vase.
16:14
Translate this into adult language.
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To prevedite v jezik odraslih.
16:17
It starts very young. It continues into our sex lives
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Začne se pri mladih letih in se nadaljuje v naše spolno življenje,
16:21
up to the end.
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vse do konca.
16:22
Child number two comes back
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Otrok številka dve se vrne,
16:25
but looks like that over their shoulder all the time.
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a se kar naprej ozira čez ramo.
16:27
"Are you going to be there?
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"Ali boš tam?
16:30
Are you going to curse me? Are you going to scold me?
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Ali me boš preklel? Ali me boš okaral?
16:31
Are you going to be angry with me?"
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Ali boš jezen name?"
16:33
And they may be gone, but they're never really away,
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Morda ga ni več, a nikoli ni zares odšel
16:37
and those are often the people that will tell you,
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in to so pogosto ljudje, ki vam bodo dejali,
16:39
in the beginning it was super hot.
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da je bil začetek res vroč.
16:41
Because in the beginning, the growing intimacy
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Ker na začetku ta rastoča intimnost
16:45
wasn't yet so strong
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še ni bila tako močna,
16:47
that it actually led to the decrease of desire.
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da bi pripeljala do zmanjšanega poželenja.
16:50
The more connected I became, the more responsible I felt,
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Bolj kot sem se počutil povezanega, bolj sem se počutil odgovornega
16:54
the less I was able to let go in your presence.
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in manj sem se upal sprostiti v tvoji prisotnosti.
16:57
The third child doesn't really come back.
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Tretji otrok se pravzaprav nikoli ne vrne.
17:00
So what happens, if you want to sustain desire,
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Če torej želite ohranjati poželenje,
17:03
it's that real dialectic piece.
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ste postavljeni v protislovno situacijo.
17:05
On the one hand you want the security in order to be able to go.
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Po eni strani si želite varnosti, da bi se lahko sprostili.
17:09
On the other hand if you can't go, you can't have pleasure,
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Po drugi strani, če ne morete oditi, ne morete izkusiti užitka,
17:13
you can't culminate, you don't have an orgasm,
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ne kulminirate, ne dosežete orgazma,
17:16
you don't get excited because you spend your time
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ne vzburite se, ker svoj čas porabite
17:18
in the body and the head of the other and not in your own.
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v telesu in glavi drugega in ne sebe.
17:21
So in this dilemma about reconciling
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O tej dilemi o usklajevanju
17:25
these two sets of fundamental needs,
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teh dveh skupin osnovnih potreb
17:28
there are a few things that I've come to understand erotic couples do.
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sem ugotovila nekaj stvari, ki jih počenejo erotični pari.
17:32
One, they have a lot of sexual privacy.
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Prvič, imajo veliko seksualne zasebnosti.
17:35
They understand that there is an erotic space
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Razumejo, da obstaja erotičen prostor,
17:37
that belongs to each of them.
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ki pripada vsakemu izmed njiju.
17:40
They also understand that foreplay is not something you do
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Razumejo tudi, da predigra ni nekaj, kar počnemo
17:43
five minutes before the real thing.
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pet minut pred pravo zadevo.
17:45
Foreplay pretty much starts at the end of the previous orgasm.
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Predigra se začne na koncu prejšnjega orgazma.
17:48
They also understand that an erotic space
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Razumejo tudi, da se erotičen prostor
17:51
isn't about, you begin to stroke the other.
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ne začne z dotikanjem drug drugega.
17:53
It's about you create a space where you leave Management Inc.,
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Gre se za ustvarjanje prostora, kjer pustijo ob strani službo,
17:57
maybe where you leave the agile program,
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kjer lahko pustijo ob strani fitnes,
18:00
(Laughter)
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(smeh)
18:01
and you actually just enter that place
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in vstopijo v prostor,
18:04
where you stop being the good citizen
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kjer prenehajo biti dober državljan,
18:07
who is taking care of things and being responsible.
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ki poskrbi za zadeve in je odgovoren.
18:09
Responsibility and desire just butt heads.
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Odgovornost in poželenje le tolčeta z glavami skupaj.
18:13
They don't really do well together.
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Ne znata dobro sodelovati.
18:15
Erotic couples also understand that passion waxes and wanes.
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Erotični pari tudi razumejo, da strast narašča in pada.
18:20
It's pretty much like the moon. It has intermittent eclipses.
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Je kot luna. V presledkih obstajajo mrki.
18:23
But what they know is they know how to resurrect it.
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A zavedajo se, kako jo obuditi.
18:26
They know how to bring it back,
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Vedo, kako jo pripeljati nazaj
18:28
and they know how to bring it back
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in to vedo,
18:29
because they have demystified one big myth,
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ker so razkrili velik mit,
18:31
which is the myth of spontaneity, which is
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namreč mit spontanosti, ki govori,
18:34
that it's just going to fall from heaven while you're folding the laundry
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da jim bo to padlo z nebes, ko bodo zlagali perilo,
18:38
like a deus ex machina, and in fact they understood
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kot deus ex machina, in pravzaprav razumejo,
18:41
that whatever is going to just happen
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da karkoli se bo zgodilo
18:43
in a long-term relationship already has.
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v dolgotrajnem razmerju, se je že zgodilo.
18:46
Committed sex is premeditated sex.
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Predan seks je premišljen seks.
18:49
It's willful. It's intentional.
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Zavesten je. Nameren je.
18:52
It's focus and presence.
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Je osredotočenje in prisotnost.
18:55
Merry Valentine's.
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Veselo valentinovo.
18:57
(Applause)
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(aplavz)
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Esther Perel - Relationship therapistPsychotherapist Esther Perel is changing the conversation on what it means to be in love and have a fulfilling sex life.
Why you should listen
For the first time in human history, couples aren’t having sex just to have kids; there’s room for sustained desire and long-term sexual relationships. But how? Perel, a licensed marriage and family therapist with a practice in New York, travels the world to help people answer this question. For her research she works across cultures and is fluent in nine languages. She coaches, consults and speaks regularly on erotic intelligence, trauma, sexual honesty and conflict resolution. She is the author of Mating in Captivity: Reconciling the Erotic and the Domestic. Her latest work focuses on infidelity: what it is, why happy people do it and how couples can recover from it. She aims to locate this very personal experience within a larger cultural context.
Esther Perel | Speaker | TED.com