TED Fellows Retreat 2015
Will Potter: The secret US prisons you've never heard of before
威尔·波特: 关于美国监狱，你从未听过的秘密
Filmed:
Readability: 5
4,502,663 views
调查记者威尔·波特，是唯一一个曾经进入“通信管制监狱”（简称CMU），与联邦囚犯进行交流的人。这些部门被秘密地启用，限制囚犯的基本待遇——甚至禁止他们拥抱自己的孩子。波特，作为TED成员，让我们知道了是谁被关押在这里，政府又是如何试图隐藏他们。“只有一点是明确的，”他说，“不要谈论这个地方。”
关于这次演讲的资料，参见： willpotter.com/cmu
Will Potter - Investigative journalist
Award-winning journalist and author, Will Potter focuses on the animal rights and environmental movements, and civil liberties in the post-9/11 era. Full bio
Award-winning journalist and author, Will Potter focuses on the animal rights and environmental movements, and civil liberties in the post-9/11 era. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:13
Father Daniel Berrigan once said
that "writing about prisoners
that "writing about prisoners
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丹尼尔·贝里根神父曾经说过
“描写囚犯，就像在描写死人。”
00:16
is a little like writing about the dead."
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00:19
I think what he meant is that
we treat prisoners as ghosts.
we treat prisoners as ghosts.
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我认为他的意思是
我们对待囚犯就像幽灵。
我们对待囚犯就像幽灵。
00:22
They're unseen and unheard.
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他们从未被听到和看到。
00:25
It's easy to simply ignore them
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要忽略他们实在太容易了，
00:27
and it's even easier when the government
goes to great lengths to keep them hidden.
goes to great lengths to keep them hidden.
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尤其是在政府
竭力隐藏的情况下。
竭力隐藏的情况下。
00:31
As a journalist, I think these stories
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作为一个记者，我觉得那些故事，
00:33
of what people in power do
when no one is watching,
when no one is watching,
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那些关于掌权者，在
无人所知的地方所做的事，
无人所知的地方所做的事，
00:37
are precisely the stories
that we need to tell.
that we need to tell.
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都应该被人们了解。
00:40
That's why I began investigating
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这就是我为什么开始调查
00:41
the most secretive and experimental
prison units in the United States,
prison units in the United States,
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美国给所谓的
“二线恐怖分子”设立的
“二线恐怖分子”设立的
最隐秘、也最具实验性的监狱部门。
00:45
for so-called "second-tier" terrorists.
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00:49
The government calls these units
Communications Management Units or CMUs.
Communications Management Units or CMUs.
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政府称这些部门为
“通信管制监狱”， 也就是CMUs
“通信管制监狱”， 也就是CMUs
00:54
Prisoners and guards call them
"Little Guantanamo."
"Little Guantanamo."
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而囚犯和狱警却将它称为
“小关塔那摩”。
“小关塔那摩”。
00:58
They are islands unto themselves.
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它们与世隔绝。
01:01
But unlike Gitmo they exist
right here, at home,
right here, at home,
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但与关塔那摩监狱不同的是：
它们就在这里，在我们的国家，
它们就在这里，在我们的国家，
01:05
floating within larger federal prisons.
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悬浮于更大的联邦监狱内部。
01:09
There are 2 CMUs.
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有两个CMUs。
01:10
One was opened inside the prison
in Terre Haute, Indiana,
in Terre Haute, Indiana,
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一个建在印第安纳州
特雷霍特的监狱内部，
特雷霍特的监狱内部，
01:14
and the other is inside this prison,
in Marion, Illinois.
in Marion, Illinois.
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而另一个，在这个监狱里，
位于伊利诺伊州，马里昂。
位于伊利诺伊州，马里昂。
01:18
Neither of them underwent
the formal review process
the formal review process
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他们中的任何一个，
在被启用时，
在被启用时，
01:21
that is required by law
when they were opened.
when they were opened.
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都没有经过法律要求的
正式审核程序。
正式审核程序。
01:25
CMU prisoners have all
been convicted of crimes.
been convicted of crimes.
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CMU里面的囚犯皆被判为有罪。
01:28
Some of their cases are questionable
and some involve threats and violence.
and some involve threats and violence.
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但其中一些案子尚存疑点，
还有一些涉及恐吓威胁和暴力。
还有一些涉及恐吓威胁和暴力。
01:33
I'm not here to argue the guilt
or innocence of any prisoner.
or innocence of any prisoner.
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我不是要在这里
争论囚犯有罪与否。
争论囚犯有罪与否。
01:36
I'm here because as Supreme Court Justice
Thurgood Marshall said,
Thurgood Marshall said,
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我在这里，是因为
最高法院大法官瑟古德·马歇尔曾说过
最高法院大法官瑟古德·马歇尔曾说过
01:39
"When the prisons and gates slam shut,
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“当监狱大门砰一声关上时，
01:42
prisoners do not lose
their human quality."
their human quality."
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囚犯们并没有丧失
他们身为人的特性。”
他们身为人的特性。”
01:46
Every prisoner I've interviewed
has said there are three flecks of light
has said there are three flecks of light
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我采访过的每一位囚犯都说，
在黑暗的监狱里只有三件事
给他们带来微弱的光亮：
给他们带来微弱的光亮：
01:51
in the darkness of prison:
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01:53
phone calls,
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接电话、
01:54
letters
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收信、
01:56
and visits from family.
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还有家属探监。
01:58
CMUs aren't solitary confinement,
but they radically restrict all of these
but they radically restrict all of these
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CMUs 并没有将罪犯隔离关押，
但他们对囚犯行为的全面限制
但他们对囚犯行为的全面限制
02:02
to levels that meet or exceed the most
extreme prisons in the United States.
extreme prisons in the United States.
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严格到超过了
美国最严苛的监狱。
美国最严苛的监狱。
02:06
Their phone calls can be limited
to 45 minutes a month,
to 45 minutes a month,
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他们的通话时间
被限制在每月45分钟，
被限制在每月45分钟，
02:09
compared to the 300 minutes
other prisoners receive.
other prisoners receive.
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而别的囚犯可以获得300分钟。
02:14
Their letters can be limited
to six pieces of paper.
to six pieces of paper.
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他们的信件来往限制在6页纸以内。
02:17
Their visits can be limited
to four hours per month,
to four hours per month,
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每月的家属探视时间
只有4个小时，
只有4个小时，
02:19
compared to the 35 hours that people
like Olympic Park bomber Eric Rudolph
like Olympic Park bomber Eric Rudolph
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与之相反，就连奥林匹克公园爆炸案
的始作俑者，埃里克·鲁道夫
的始作俑者，埃里克·鲁道夫
02:25
receive in the supermax.
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最多都能有35个小时。
02:28
On top of that, CMU visits are non-contact
which means prisoners are not allowed
which means prisoners are not allowed
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最重要的是，
CMU的探视是非接触式的，
CMU的探视是非接触式的，
也就是说，囚犯们甚至
不能拥抱自己的家人。
不能拥抱自己的家人。
02:33
to even hug their family.
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02:36
As one CMU prisoner said,
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就像一位CMU囚犯说的：
02:38
"We're not being tortured here,
except psychologically."
except psychologically."
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“在这里，我们确实没被酷刑折磨，
我们只受到精神上的折磨。”
我们只受到精神上的折磨。”
02:42
The government won't say
who is imprisoned here.
who is imprisoned here.
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政府不会透露
谁被关押在这里。
谁被关押在这里。
02:45
But through court documents,
open records requests
open records requests
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但通过法院的文件、
请求公开的记录
请求公开的记录
02:49
and interviews with current
and former prisoners,
and former prisoners,
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和我们对现任、前任囚犯的采访，
02:51
some small windows
into the CMUs have opened.
into the CMUs have opened.
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我们打开了一些
通往CMUs的小窗口。
通往CMUs的小窗口。
02:56
There's an estimated
60 to 70 prisoners here,
60 to 70 prisoners here,
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这里大约有60到70名囚犯，
02:59
and they're overwhelmingly Muslim.
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其中大多数是穆斯林。
03:01
They include people like Dr. Rafil Dhafir,
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其中包括Rafil Dhafir博士
这样的人，
这样的人，
03:05
who violated the economic sanctions
on Iraq by sending medical supplies
on Iraq by sending medical supplies
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他因为给伊拉克的儿童
寄送医疗用品，违反了
寄送医疗用品，违反了
对伊拉克的经济制裁禁令。
03:09
for the children there.
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03:11
They've included people like Yassin Aref.
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其中也包括Yassin Aref
这样的人。
这样的人。
03:14
Aref and his family fled to New York
from Saddam Hussein's Iraq as refugees.
from Saddam Hussein's Iraq as refugees.
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Aref和他的家人作为难民，
从萨达姆统治下的伊拉克逃到纽约。
从萨达姆统治下的伊拉克逃到纽约。
03:20
He was arrested in 2004
as part of an FBI sting.
as part of an FBI sting.
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他在2004年，一次
FBI的行动中被捕。
FBI的行动中被捕。
03:24
Aref is an imam and he was asked
to bear witness to a loan,
to bear witness to a loan,
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Aref作为伊玛目（伊斯兰教长），
曾被要求为一笔贷款做担保，
曾被要求为一笔贷款做担保，
03:28
which is a tradition in Islamic culture.
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这是伊斯兰文化的传统。
03:30
It turned out that one of the people
involved in the loan was trying to enlist
involved in the loan was trying to enlist
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但后来发现贷款的其中一人
试图招募别的人
参与一场伪装袭击。
参与一场伪装袭击。
03:34
someone else in a fake attack.
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Aref对此并不知情。
03:37
Aref didn't know.
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03:39
For that, he was convicted
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就因为这个，他被判处
03:40
of conspiracy to provide material support
to a terrorist group.
to a terrorist group.
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密谋为恐怖组织提供物质支持。
03:46
The CMUs also include
some non-Muslim prisoners.
some non-Muslim prisoners.
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在CMUs里同样
有一些非穆斯林囚犯。
有一些非穆斯林囚犯。
03:49
The guards call them "balancers,"
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警卫称他们为“平衡者”。
03:52
meaning they help balance out
the racial numbers,
the racial numbers,
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意思是他们的存在
平衡了（囚犯的）种族人数，
平衡了（囚犯的）种族人数，
03:55
in hopes of deflecting law suits.
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监狱借此逃脱法律指控。
03:58
These balancers include animal rights
and environmental activists
and environmental activists
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这些平衡者里包括
动物权益和环保主义激进分子
动物权益和环保主义激进分子
04:01
like Daniel McGowan.
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比如Daniel McGowan。
04:03
McGowan was convicted
of participating in two arsons
of participating in two arsons
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McGowan被判决
参与了两次
参与了两次
由地球解放阵线发起的
以保卫环境为名的纵火案件。
以保卫环境为名的纵火案件。
04:06
in the name of defending the environment
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04:08
as part of the Earth Liberation Front.
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04:11
During his sentencing, he was afraid
that he would be sent
that he would be sent
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在他的判决中，
他害怕自己被送进
他害怕自己被送进
04:14
to a rumored secret prison for terrorists.
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据说是关押恐怖分子的“秘密监狱”。
04:17
The judge dismissed all those fears,
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法官对他的恐惧不予任何考虑，
04:19
saying that they
weren't supported by any facts.
weren't supported by any facts.
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称没有任何事实可以支撑这一谣言。
04:22
But that might be because the government
hasn't fully explained
hasn't fully explained
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但那恐怕是因为政府从未完全解释过
04:25
why some prisoners end up in a CMU,
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为什么有些囚犯会被送进CMU，
04:28
and who is responsible
for these decisions.
for these decisions.
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而这些决策又是由谁负责做出的。
04:32
When McGowan was transferred, he was told
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当McGowan被递交监狱时，
04:34
it's because he is a "domestic terrorist,"
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他被告知，是因为
他是一名“国内恐怖分子”，
他是一名“国内恐怖分子”，
04:37
a term the FBI uses repeatedly when
talking about environmental activists.
talking about environmental activists.
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这一术语被FBI大量地
用于形容环境保护主义者。
用于形容环境保护主义者。
04:42
Now, keep in mind there are about 400
prisoners in US prisons
prisoners in US prisons
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然而，要知道：
美国的监狱里
美国的监狱里
有大约400名囚犯
被分类为“恐怖分子”，
被分类为“恐怖分子”，
04:46
who are classified as terrorists,
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但只有屈指可数的一些
被关在CMUs里。
被关在CMUs里。
04:48
and only a handful of them
are in the CMUs.
are in the CMUs.
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04:51
In McGowan's case, he was previously
at a low-security prison
at a low-security prison
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在McGowan的案子里，
他明显是一个低危险系数的犯人，
他明显是一个低危险系数的犯人，
04:54
and he had no communications violations.
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显然，他也不会有任何
威胁性的通信行为。
威胁性的通信行为。
04:59
So, why was he moved?
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那么，为什么他会被送进去？
05:02
Like other CMU prisoners,
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像其他的CMU囚犯一样，
05:03
McGowan repeatedly asked
for an answer, a hearing,
for an answer, a hearing,
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McGowan不断地要求
一个回答、一次倾听、
或者一个上诉的机会。
或者一个上诉的机会。
05:07
or some opportunity for an appeal.
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05:10
This example from another prisoner
shows how those requests are viewed.
shows how those requests are viewed.
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这个例子来自别的犯人，证实了
他们的申请是如何被审核的。
他们的申请是如何被审核的。
05:15
"Wants a transfer." "Told him no."
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“希望转移（到别的监狱）。”
“告诉他不可能。”
“告诉他不可能。”
05:19
At one point, the prison warden himself
recommended McGowan's transfer
recommended McGowan's transfer
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甚至有一次，监狱长他自己
都建议鉴于McGowan的优秀表现
都建议鉴于McGowan的优秀表现
05:23
out of the CMU citing his good behavior,
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将他移出CMU监狱，
05:26
but the warden was overruled
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但被监狱局与FBI联合反恐特遣部队
合作的监狱反恐部门驳回了请求。
合作的监狱反恐部门驳回了请求。
05:28
by the Bureau of Prison's
Counterterrorism Unit,
Counterterrorism Unit,
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05:31
working with the Joint Terrorism
Task Force of the FBI.
Task Force of the FBI.
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05:35
Later I found out that McGowan
was really sent to a CMU
was really sent to a CMU
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后来我发现，McGowan
被送进CMU的真正原因
被送进CMU的真正原因
05:38
not because of what he did,
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不是因为他做了什么，
05:40
but what he has said.
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而是他说过的话。
05:42
A memo from the Counterterrorism Unit
cited McGowan's "anti-government beliefs."
cited McGowan's "anti-government beliefs."
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监狱反恐部门的一项备忘录记载：
McGowan有“反政府信念”。
McGowan有“反政府信念”。
05:48
While imprisoned, he continued writing
about environmental issues,
about environmental issues,
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在关押期内，他持续进行
环境问题相关写作，
环境问题相关写作，
05:51
saying that activists must
reflect on their mistakes
reflect on their mistakes
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告诉别的环保主义者
必须反思自己的错误
必须反思自己的错误
05:54
and listen to each other.
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并倾听彼此的意见。
05:56
Now, in fairness, if you've spent
any time at all in Washington, DC,
any time at all in Washington, DC,
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说句公道话，如果你在
华盛顿特区呆过一段时间，
华盛顿特区呆过一段时间，
06:00
you know this is really a radical
concept for the government.
concept for the government.
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你就明白，对政府来说
这可真是一种激进的理念。
这可真是一种激进的理念。
06:04
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
06:06
I actually asked to visit
McGowan in the CMU.
McGowan in the CMU.
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实际上，我曾要求
去CMU探视McGowan。
去CMU探视McGowan。
06:10
And I was approved.
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请求通过了。
06:12
That came as quite a shock.
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这吓了我一跳。
06:14
First, because as I've discussed
on this stage before,
on this stage before,
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一方面，之前我就常在这一领域发声，
06:19
I learned that the FBI has been
monitoring my work.
monitoring my work.
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我听说FBI早就在监视我的工作。
06:23
Second, because it would make me the first
and only journalist to visit a CMU.
and only journalist to visit a CMU.
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另一方面，
这次探视会让我成为
这次探视会让我成为
第一个、也是唯一一个
进入CMU的调查记者。
进入CMU的调查记者。
我还从监狱局反恐部门听说，
06:29
I had even learned
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06:30
through the Bureau of Prisons
Counterterrorism Unit,
Counterterrorism Unit,
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他们一直在监视我关于CMUs的演讲，
就像今天这一场。
就像今天这一场。
06:33
that they had been monitoring my speeches
about CMUs, like this one.
about CMUs, like this one.
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06:39
So how could I possibly
be approved to visit?
be approved to visit?
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那么，我怎么可能被允许探视的？
06:43
A few days before I went
out to the prison, I got an answer.
out to the prison, I got an answer.
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就在前几天我去了监狱之后，
我得到了答案。
我得到了答案。
06:48
I was allowed to visit McGowan
as a friend, not a journalist.
as a friend, not a journalist.
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我获准作为McGowan的朋友
对他进行探视，而不是作为记者。
对他进行探视，而不是作为记者。
06:52
Journalists are not allowed here.
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记者不被允许出现在这里。
06:54
McGowan was told by CMU officials
that if I asked any questions
that if I asked any questions
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CMU的官员告诉McGowan，
一旦我问了一些敏感问题
一旦我问了一些敏感问题
06:58
or published any story,
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或是在之后发表了任何敏感言论，
07:00
that he would be punished
for my reporting.
for my reporting.
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他就会为我的报道
受到惩罚。
受到惩罚。
07:04
When I arrived for our visit,
the guards reminded me
the guards reminded me
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当我来到监狱时，
警卫提醒我
警卫提醒我
07:06
that they knew who I was
and knew about my work.
and knew about my work.
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他们知道我是谁
也知道我的工作。
也知道我的工作。
07:09
And they said that if I attempted
to interview McGowan,
to interview McGowan,
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他们说，一旦我试图
对McGowan进行采访，
对McGowan进行采访，
07:11
the visit would be terminated.
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探视就会被终止。
07:14
The Bureau of Prisons describes CMUs
as "self-contained housing units."
as "self-contained housing units."
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监狱局声称，CMUs是
“自足的居住部门”。
“自足的居住部门”。
07:20
But I think that's an Orwellian way
of describing black holes.
of describing black holes.
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但我认为这与奥威尔描述
黑洞的方式没有区别。
黑洞的方式没有区别。
07:24
When you visit a CMU,
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当你来到CMU，
07:25
you go through all the security
checkpoints that you would expect.
checkpoints that you would expect.
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你经过了所有安全检查的关卡，
这是你之前就能想到的。
这是你之前就能想到的。
07:29
But then the walk
to the visitation room is silent.
to the visitation room is silent.
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但接下来，
通往探视间的路上却是沉默的。
通往探视间的路上却是沉默的。
07:33
When a CMU prisoner has a visit,
the rest of the prison is on lockdown.
the rest of the prison is on lockdown.
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当一名CMU囚犯接受探视时，
其余的犯人全被关回牢房里。
其余的犯人全被关回牢房里。
07:39
I was ushered into a small room,
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我被引导进一个小房间里，
07:40
so small my outstretched arms
could touch each wall.
could touch each wall.
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小到我伸展双臂就能摸到两边的墙。
07:44
There was a grapefruit-sized
orb in the ceiling
orb in the ceiling
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天花板上有一个转动的小圆球，
07:47
for the visit to be live-monitored
by the Counterterrorism Unit
by the Counterterrorism Unit
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方便远在西弗吉尼亚的反恐部门
实时监控这里的探视。
07:50
in West Virginia.
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07:52
The unit insists that all the visits
have to be in English for CMU prisoners,
have to be in English for CMU prisoners,
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他们坚持要求CMU囚犯
在探视过程中用英语交流，
在探视过程中用英语交流，
07:57
which is an additional hardship
for many of the Muslim families.
for many of the Muslim families.
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这对那些穆斯林家庭来说
显得更加困难。
显得更加困难。
08:00
There is a thick sheet of foggy,
bulletproof glass
bulletproof glass
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在我面前是一面极厚的、
模糊的防弹玻璃
模糊的防弹玻璃
08:04
and on the other side was Daniel McGowan.
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玻璃的另一侧，
是Daniel McGowan。
是Daniel McGowan。
08:08
We spoke through these handsets
attached to the wall
attached to the wall
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我们通过墙上的
电话听筒进行交流，
电话听筒进行交流，
08:10
and talked about books and movies.
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聊一些书和电影。
08:13
We did our best to find reasons to laugh.
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我们尽力找出一些发笑的理由。
08:16
To fight boredom and amuse himself
while in the CMU,
while in the CMU,
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身处CMU，为了
消磨时间，找点乐子，
消磨时间，找点乐子，
08:19
McGowan had been spreading a rumor
that I was secretly the president
that I was secretly the president
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McGowan散布了个谣言，
说我是暮光之城粉丝俱乐部
说我是暮光之城粉丝俱乐部
08:23
of a Twilight fan club in Washington, DC
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在华盛顿特区的秘密总统。
08:27
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
08:29
For the record, I'm not.
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我想在这里说清楚，
其实我不是。
其实我不是。
08:32
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
08:33
But I kind of the hope the FBI
now thinks that Bella and Edward
now thinks that Bella and Edward
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但我其实有点希望FBI
会把贝拉和爱德华
会把贝拉和爱德华
08:37
are terrorist code names.
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当成恐怖分子的代号。
08:39
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
在我们探视过程中，
08:42
During our visit, McGowan spoke most
and at length about his niece Lily,
and at length about his niece Lily,
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McGowan讲得最多、
最不遗余力地谈论的
最不遗余力地谈论的
是他的侄女丽丽、妻子珍妮，
08:48
his wife Jenny and how torturous
it feels to never be able to hug them,
it feels to never be able to hug them,
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以及再也不能拥抱她们、
再也不能拉她们手的折磨。
再也不能拉她们手的折磨。
08:54
to never be able to hold their hands.
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08:58
Three months after our visit, McGowan
was transferred out of the CMU
was transferred out of the CMU
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那次探视之后过了三个月，
McGowan被转移出了CMU，
McGowan被转移出了CMU，
09:01
and then, without warning,
he was sent back again.
he was sent back again.
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但之后，没有任何警告，
他又被送回去了。
他又被送回去了。
09:05
I had published leaked
CMU documents on my website
CMU documents on my website
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我在自己的网站上公开了
泄密的CMU文件
泄密的CMU文件
09:10
and the Counterterrorism Unit said
that McGowan had called his wife
that McGowan had called his wife
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反恐部门称，McGowan曾
给他的妻子打电话
给他的妻子打电话
09:13
and asked her to mail them.
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并要求她给有关部门写信。
09:16
He wanted to see what the government
was saying about him,
was saying about him,
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他想知道政府对他的案子怎么解释，
09:19
and for that he was sent back to the CMU.
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因此他又被送回了CMU。
09:21
When he was finally released
at the end of his sentence,
at the end of his sentence,
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当他最终刑满获释，
09:24
his story got even more Kafkaesque.
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这个故事又变得更加戏剧性。
09:27
He wrote an article
for the Huffington Post headlined,
for the Huffington Post headlined,
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他为赫芬顿邮报撰写了
一篇文章，标题是：
一篇文章，标题是：
《法庭文件证实，我因自己的
政治言论被送进CMU》，
政治言论被送进CMU》，
09:29
"Court Documents Prove I was Sent to
a CMU for my Political Speech."
a CMU for my Political Speech."
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09:34
The next day he was thrown
back in jail for his political speech.
back in jail for his political speech.
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第二天他就又被扔回监狱去了，
因为他的“政治发言”（登报文章）。
因为他的“政治发言”（登报文章）。
09:40
His attorneys quickly secured his release,
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他的律师很快将他保释出来，
09:42
but the message was very clear:
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但收到的信息是明确的：
09:45
Don't talk about this place.
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——“不要谈论这个地方。”
09:48
Today, nine years after they were opened
by the Bush administration,
by the Bush administration,
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至今，距离布什政府
启用它们已有9年，
启用它们已有9年，
09:53
the government is codifying
how and why CMUs were created.
how and why CMUs were created.
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政府仍在试图将设立CMUs
的原因和方式合法化。
的原因和方式合法化。
09:57
According to the Bureau of Prisons,
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根据监狱局的说法，
09:59
they are for prisoners
with "inspirational significance."
with "inspirational significance."
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它们是用于关押那些
“具有煽动意义”的囚犯。
“具有煽动意义”的囚犯。
10:04
I think that is very nice way of saying
these are political prisons
these are political prisons
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我认为这样形容
这些关押政治犯的
这些关押政治犯的
政治监狱非常巧妙。
10:08
for political prisoners.
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10:10
Prisoners are sent to a CMU
because of their race,
because of their race,
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犯人们因为他们的种族、
10:13
their religion or their
political beliefs.
political beliefs.
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宗教或政治信仰而被送进CMU。
10:16
Now, if you think that
characterization is too strong,
characterization is too strong,
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现在，你可能会
觉得这些判定特征太夸张了，
觉得这些判定特征太夸张了，
10:19
just look at some
of the government's own documents.
of the government's own documents.
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不妨来看一些
政府自己的文件。
政府自己的文件。
10:22
When some of McGowan's mail was rejected
by the CMU, the sender was told
by the CMU, the sender was told
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当McGowan的信件被CMU
拒收时，寄信者获知
拒收时，寄信者获知
10:26
it's because the letters were intended
"for political prisoners."
"for political prisoners."
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这些信因为寄给
“政治性罪犯”而被拒收。
“政治性罪犯”而被拒收。
10:31
When another prisoner, animal rights
activist Andy Stepanian,
activist Andy Stepanian,
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而对别的犯人，像动物权益保护者
Andy Stepanian，
Andy Stepanian，
10:35
was sent to a CMU, it was because of his
anti-government and anti-corporate views.
anti-government and anti-corporate views.
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被送进CMU的理由是：
他有反企业、反政府观点。
他有反企业、反政府观点。
10:41
Now, I know all of this
may be hard to believe,
may be hard to believe,
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我知道这一切让人很难接受，
10:44
that it's happening right now,
and in the United States.
and in the United States.
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但它确实发生在当下，
发生在我们美国。
发生在我们美国。
10:49
But the unknown reality
is that the US has a dark history
is that the US has a dark history
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这个不为人知的事实就是，
美国有着一段黑暗的历史
美国有着一段黑暗的历史
10:52
of disproportionately punishing people
because of their political beliefs.
because of their political beliefs.
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是根据人们的政治信仰，
区别对待地进行惩罚。
区别对待地进行惩罚。
10:57
In the 1960s, before Marion
was home to the CMU,
was home to the CMU,
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在1960年代，当马里昂还
没有CMU的时候，
没有CMU的时候，
11:02
it was home to the notorious Control Unit.
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那里就有一所
臭名昭著的管制监狱。
臭名昭著的管制监狱。
11:05
Prisoners were locked down
in solitary for 22 hours a day.
in solitary for 22 hours a day.
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犯人们每天有22小时
被单独关押。
被单独关押。
11:10
The warden said the unit
was to "control revolutionary attitudes."
was to "control revolutionary attitudes."
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监狱长说，这所监狱是用于
“控制具有革命倾向的犯人”。
“控制具有革命倾向的犯人”。
11:16
In the 1980s, another experiment called
the Lexington High Security Unit
the Lexington High Security Unit
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在1980年代，另一所实验性监狱
名叫列克星敦高安全监狱
名叫列克星敦高安全监狱
11:21
held women connected
to the Weather Underground,
to the Weather Underground,
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关押着与“地下气象人组织”、
11:24
Black Liberation and Puerto Rican
independent struggles.
independent struggles.
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黑人解放运动、波多黎各独立斗争
有关的女性。
有关的女性。
11:27
The prison radically restricted
communication and used sleep deprivation,
communication and used sleep deprivation,
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监狱从根本上限制通信交流
并且使用“剥夺睡眠”和“持续光照”
并且使用“剥夺睡眠”和“持续光照”
11:32
and constant light for so-called
"ideological conversion."
"ideological conversion."
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来进行所谓的“思想转换”。
11:37
Those prisons were eventually shut down,
but only through the campaigning
but only through the campaigning
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那些监狱最终都被关闭了，
但那是宗教组织和
但那是宗教组织和
11:43
of religious groups and human rights
advocates, like Amnesty International.
advocates, like Amnesty International.
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像“国际特赦组织”这样的人权倡导者
通过一系列的抗争换来的。
通过一系列的抗争换来的。
11:48
Today, civil rights lawyers
with the Center for Constitutional Rights
with the Center for Constitutional Rights
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今天，民权律师和宪法权利中心
11:52
are challenging CMUs in court
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都在向法院抗议CMUs
11:54
for depriving prisoners
of their due process rights
of their due process rights
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剥夺囚犯应享有的正当法律程序
11:57
and for retaliating against them
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以及对囚犯受保护的政治、
宗教发言做出的报复行为。
宗教发言做出的报复行为。
11:59
for their protected political
and religious speech.
and religious speech.
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3310
12:03
Many of these documents would have
never come to light without this lawsuit.
never come to light without this lawsuit.
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如果没有这些诉讼，
刚才展示的许多文件就不会重见天日。
刚才展示的许多文件就不会重见天日。
12:08
The message of these groups
and my message for you today
and my message for you today
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来自这些组织的信息，和我
今天告诉大家的这些信息
今天告诉大家的这些信息
12:13
is that we must bear witness
to what is being done to these prisoners.
to what is being done to these prisoners.
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是为了让各位见证：
我们正在对囚犯们做些什么。
我们正在对囚犯们做些什么。
12:16
Their treatment is a reflection
of the values held beyond prison walls.
of the values held beyond prison walls.
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他们的待遇，反映了
监狱高墙之外的人们持有的价值观念。
监狱高墙之外的人们持有的价值观念。
12:22
This story is not just about prisoners.
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这个故事不仅仅是关于犯人的。
12:24
It is about us.
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2024
也是关于你我的。
12:27
It is about our own commitment
to human rights.
to human rights.
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2747
它关于我们自己
维护人权的责任。
维护人权的责任。
12:29
It is about whether we will choose to stop
repeating the mistakes of our past.
repeating the mistakes of our past.
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4725
也是关于，我们是否要选择
重蹈覆辙，一错再错。
重蹈覆辙，一错再错。
12:35
If we don't listen to what Father Berrigan
described as the stories of the dead,
described as the stories of the dead,
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如果我们不愿去倾听
贝里根神父讲述关于死亡的故事，
贝里根神父讲述关于死亡的故事，
12:40
they will soon become
the stories of ourselves.
the stories of ourselves.
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那么明天，
那就会是我们自己的故事。
那就会是我们自己的故事。
12:42
Thank you.
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1150
谢谢。
12:44
(Applause)
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752074
2698
（掌声）
12:51
(Applause ends)
220
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2000
（掌声结束）
12:53
Tom Rielly: I have a couple questions.
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1835
Tom Rielly：我有几个问题。
12:55
When I was in high school,
I learned about the Bill of Rights,
I learned about the Bill of Rights,
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3928
当我还在读中学的时候，
我就学过“权利法案”、
我就学过“权利法案”、
12:59
the Constitution, freedom of speech,
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“宪法”、“言论自由”、
13:02
due process and
about 25 other laws and rights
about 25 other laws and rights
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4533
“正当法律程序”
和其它25种法律和权利，
和其它25种法律和权利，
13:07
that seem to be violated by this.
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1784
它们看起来都被这事违背了。
13:09
How could this possibly be happening?
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2704
那么这件事究竟是怎么发生的呢？
13:12
Will Potter: I think that's
the number one question I get
the number one question I get
227
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2691
Will Potter：
我想这是我整个工作中，
我想这是我整个工作中，
13:15
throughout all of my work,
228
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1987
要面临的首要问题，
13:17
and the short answer is
that people don't know.
that people don't know.
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3134
简单来说，答案是：
“没人知道。”
“没人知道。”
13:20
I think the solution to any of these types
of situations, any rights abuses,
of situations, any rights abuses,
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3891
我认为想要解决任何
类似的权力滥用情况，
类似的权力滥用情况，
13:24
are really dependent on two things.
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1693
就取决于两点：
13:26
They're dependent on knowledge
that it's actually happening
that it's actually happening
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得让人们真正了解
到底发生了什么；
到底发生了什么；
13:29
and then a means and efficacy
to actually make a change.
to actually make a change.
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还要有切实有效的
行动来促生改变。
行动来促生改变。
13:33
And unfortunately with these prisoners,
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而不幸的是，对这些犯人们，
13:35
one, people don't know
what's happening at all
what's happening at all
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首先，根本没人
知道里面发生了什么；
知道里面发生了什么；
13:38
and then they're already
disenfranchised populations
disenfranchised populations
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另外，他们实在是
被边缘化的弱势群体，
被边缘化的弱势群体，
13:41
who don't have access to attorneys,
not native English speakers.
not native English speakers.
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他们没有代理律师，
也不擅长讲英语。
也不擅长讲英语。
13:45
In some of these cases, they have great
representation that I mentioned,
representation that I mentioned,
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在我提到的这些案件里，
他们（受害者）确实已经人数众多，
他们（受害者）确实已经人数众多，
13:48
but there's just not a public awareness
of what's happening.
of what's happening.
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但还没有多到，足以让公众
认识到那里发生了什么。
认识到那里发生了什么。
13:51
TR: Isn't it guaranteed in prison
that you have right to council
that you have right to council
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TR：监狱有保证
犯人有权接触议会
犯人有权接触议会
13:54
or access to council?
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或者向议会抗议吗？
13:56
WP: There's a tendency in our culture
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WP：我们的文化里有一种倾向，
13:58
to see when people have been
convicted of a crime,
convicted of a crime,
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那就是只要人们被判有罪，
14:01
no matter if that charge
was bogus or legitimate,
was bogus or legitimate,
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无论这是误判还是合法判决，
14:03
that whatever happens to them
after that is warranted.
after that is warranted.
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此后对罪犯做的一切都是正当的。
14:06
And I think that's a really damaging
and dangerous narrative that we have,
and dangerous narrative that we have,
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而我觉得这真的是一种
破坏性的危险态度，
破坏性的危险态度，
14:10
that allows these types
of things to happen,
of things to happen,
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它让这类事情得以发生，
14:12
as the general public just
kind of turns a blind eye to it.
kind of turns a blind eye to it.
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让普通民众对它视而不见。
14:16
TR: All those documents on screen
were all real documents, word for word,
were all real documents, word for word,
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TR：屏幕上的所有文件
都是真实文件，每个字，
都是真实文件，每个字，
14:21
unchanged at all, right?
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都没有被篡改过，是吗？
14:23
WP: Absolutely. I've actually uploaded
all of them to my website.
all of them to my website.
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WP：绝对没有。事实上
我已经把它们上传到了我的网站。
我已经把它们上传到了我的网站。
14:26
It's willpotter.com/CMU and it's
a footnoted version of the talk,
a footnoted version of the talk,
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willpotter.com/CMU
我对这次演讲的所有内容做了脚注，
我对这次演讲的所有内容做了脚注，
14:31
so you can see the documents for yourself
without the little snippets.
without the little snippets.
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你可以直接点击（引用的）片段
查看文件原文。
查看文件原文。
14:34
You can see the full version.
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你可以看到完整的版本。
14:36
I relied overwhelmingly
on primary source documents
on primary source documents
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我的调查完全依赖于
最初的原始文件
最初的原始文件
14:39
or on primary interviews
with former and current prisoners,
with former and current prisoners,
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或我对现任/前任犯人的第一手采访，
14:42
with people that are dealing
with this situation every day.
with this situation every day.
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那些犯人是每天
都在面对这一状况的人。
都在面对这一状况的人。
14:45
And like I said, I've been
there myself, as well.
there myself, as well.
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而且我也说过了，
我自己也亲身去过那里。
我自己也亲身去过那里。
14:47
TR: You're doing courageous work.
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TR：你在从事一项非常勇敢的工作。
14:49
WP: Thank you very much. Thank you all.
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WP：非常感谢。感谢大家。
14:51
(Applause)
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（掌声）
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Will Potter - Investigative journalistAward-winning journalist and author, Will Potter focuses on the animal rights and environmental movements, and civil liberties in the post-9/11 era.
Why you should listen
Independent journalist and TED Fellow Will Potter is based in Washington, D.C.; his current work examines how whistleblowers and non-violent protesters are being treated as terrorists.
The author of Green Is The New Red: An Insider's Account of a Social Movement Under Siege, Potter has extensively documented how non-violent protest is slowly being criminalized. His reporting and commentary have been featured in the world's top media outlets, including the Washington Post, NPR, Rolling Stone, El Pais, and Le Monde. He has testified before the U.S. Congress about his reporting, as the only witness opposing the Animal Enterprise Terrorism Act -- and he is a plaintiff in the first lawsuits challenging so-called "ag-gag" laws as unconstitutional.
Will has also lectured at many universities and public forums about his work, including Georgetown University, Harvard Law School, and the House of Democracy and Human Rights in Berlin. International speaking tours have included Germany, Austria, Switzerland, New Zealand, and Spain, and he was the international guest lecturer for Australia's 2014 animal law lecture series.
His reporting has overturned criminal prosecutions, and it has both been praised in Congressional reports and monitored by the Counter-Terrorism Unit.
Will Potter | Speaker | TED.com