TED2004
Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi: Flow, the secret to happiness
米哈里·契克森米哈谈流动
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米哈里·契克森米哈提出这样一个问题：“什么样的生活才是值得过的？”金钱并不能增进我们的幸福值，米哈里·契克森米哈则通过对那些追求长久满足与快乐的人的研究，带出对“流动”这样一个心理状态的探讨。
Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi - Positive psychologist
Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi has contributed pioneering work to our understanding of happiness, creativity, human fulfillment and the notion of "flow" -- a state of heightened focus and immersion in activities such as art, play and work. Full bio
Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi has contributed pioneering work to our understanding of happiness, creativity, human fulfillment and the notion of "flow" -- a state of heightened focus and immersion in activities such as art, play and work. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:12
I grew up in Europe, and World War II caught me
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我在欧洲长大 那时正好是二战时期
00:17
when I was between seven and 10 years old.
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我是7岁到10岁的光景
00:21
And I realized how few of the grown-ups that I knew
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我体会到 身边的大人
00:28
were able to withstand the tragedies that the war visited on them --
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没有几个能够经受得起战争带给他们的创伤
00:38
how few of them could even resemble a normal, contented,
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很少可以重建起一种正常的、舒心的
00:46
satisfied, happy life once their job, their home, their security
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满意的、快乐的生活
00:55
was destroyed by the war.
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因为他们的工作、家庭以及 安全都因为战争而失去
00:57
So I became interested in understanding
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于是我开始对
01:00
what contributed to a life that was worth living.
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什么元素的注入可以丰富人们的生活这一话题发生兴趣
01:05
And I tried, as a child, as a teenager, to read philosophy
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那是我还是孩子 不过也开始读哲学的书
01:11
and to get involved in art and religion and many other ways
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并且尝试过艺术、宗教等各种我认为
01:19
that I could see as a possible answer to that question.
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可以为我解开谜团的途径
01:23
And finally I ended up encountering psychology by chance.
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最终则是意外的与心理学结了缘
01:32
I was at a ski resort in Switzerland without any money
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那次我去到了瑞士的一个滑雪胜地 身上分文都没有
01:37
to actually enjoy myself, because the snow had melted and
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我是去那玩的 那时雪已消融
01:45
I didn't have money to go to a movie. But I found that on the --
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我没钱去看电影
01:50
I read in the newspapers that there was to be a presentation
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但是我从报纸上看到说 将会有一场演讲
01:55
by someone in a place that I'd seen in the center of Zurich,
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地点是苏黎世市中心一个我去过的地方
02:01
and it was about flying saucers [that] he was going to talk.
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他要讲的是飞碟
02:07
And I thought, well, since I can't go to the movies,
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我就想 既然不能去看电影
02:09
at least I will go for free to listen to flying saucers.
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但至少可以去听一下这个讲飞碟的演讲吧
02:15
And the man who talked at that evening lecture was very interesting.
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那晚上的演讲非常有趣
02:24
Instead of talking about little green men,
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他没有讲绿色皮肤的外星人
02:27
he talked about how the psyche of the Europeans
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他讲到欧洲人的心灵如何因为
02:32
had been traumatized by the war, and now they're projecting
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二战而受到了创伤
02:36
flying saucers into the sky.
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因而就以放飞碟来自娱
02:40
He talked about how the mandalas of ancient Hindu religion
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他还讲到古代印度的曼荼罗
02:45
were kind of projected into the sky as an attempt to regain
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也是在战后 被人扔到天空
02:52
some sense of order after the chaos of war.
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以此来重新建立一种秩序
02:56
And this seemed very interesting to me.
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我对此很感兴趣
02:59
And I started reading his books after that lecture.
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于是就开始读相关的书
03:02
And that was Carl Jung, whose name or work I had no idea about.
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那人的名字是荣格 而那时我还不知道这个名字
03:10
Then I came to this country to study psychology
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后来就到了美国学习心理学
03:13
and I started trying to understand the roots of happiness.
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我开始探寻幸福之本源
03:20
This is a typical result that many people have presented,
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这是很多人都展示过的一个结果
03:25
and there are many variations on it.
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有很多个版本
03:28
But this, for instance, shows that about 30 percent of the people
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而这一个则显示 自1956年有调查记录以来
03:32
surveyed in the United States since 1956
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有30%的美国受访公民
03:36
say that their life is very happy.
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说他们的生活非常快乐
03:40
And that hasn't changed at all.
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这一点几乎没有变
03:42
Whereas the personal income,
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但是同一时期的人均收入则增加了
03:44
on a scale that has been held constant to accommodate for inflation,
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两倍以上 接近三倍
03:50
has more than doubled, almost tripled, in that period.
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这一统计已经是把通货膨胀算进去了
03:54
But you find essentially the same results,
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可是 结果基本是一致的
03:58
namely, that after a certain basic point -- which corresponds more or less
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就是说
04:03
to just a few 1,000 dollars above the minimum poverty level --
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到了温饱线之上1000美元之后的某个点
04:07
increases in material well-being don't seem to affect how happy people are.
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收入的增加不会影响人们的幸福值
04:14
In fact, you can find that the lack of basic resources,
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而基本生活物资之匮乏
04:21
material resources, contributes to unhappiness,
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则会导致不幸福
04:24
but the increase in material resources does not increase happiness.
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但持续的物质财富之增长并不会带来更大的幸福
04:30
So my research has been focused more on --
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所以 当我发现这些东西与我自身的经历相吻合时
04:35
after finding out these things that actually corresponded
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我在后来的研究里
04:42
to my own experience, I tried to understand:
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就开始询问
04:45
where -- in everyday life, in our normal experience --
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在正常的日常生活中
04:51
do we feel really happy?
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我们怎么才会感到幸福
04:54
And to start
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研究刚开始的时候
04:58
those studies about 40 years ago, I began to look at creative people --
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我寻找那些有创意的人士
05:03
first artists and scientists, and so forth -- trying to understand
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首先是艺术家、科学家
05:09
what made them feel that it was worth essentially spending their life
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我尝试找到 是什么让他们感觉自己的一生是值得的
05:19
doing things for which many of them didn't expect either fame or fortune,
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他们做的很多事情都不能带来荣誉和财富
05:25
but which made their life meaningful and worth doing.
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但那样的事情使得他们的人生充满意义
05:30
This was one of the leading composers of American music back in the '70s.
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这是1970年代美国最出色的一位作曲家
05:36
And the interview was 40 pages long.
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我跟他的对话记录长达40页
05:39
But this little excerpt is a very good summary
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而这一段则是一个很好的总结
05:43
of what he was saying during the interview.
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是对他的发言的总结
05:47
And it describes how he feels when composing is going well.
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它描绘出作曲家在写曲子时的感受
05:52
And he says by describing it as an ecstatic state.
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他讲的时候也是一种狂喜的状态
05:56
Now, "ecstasy" in Greek meant
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而狂喜一词在希腊语里的意思是
05:58
simply to stand to the side of something.
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站在某个东西的边上
06:01
And then it became essentially an analogy for a mental state
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后来就成为一种心智状态的代名词
06:08
where you feel that you are not doing your ordinary everyday routines.
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用来形容非正常的行为
06:14
So ecstasy is essentially a stepping into an alternative reality.
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换言之 狂喜就是一种超越寻常的感觉
06:20
And it's interesting, if you think about it, how, when we think about
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有趣的是 当我们想起
06:25
the civilizations that we look up to as having been pinnacles of human achievement --
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那些被公认为人类文明之巅峰的文明时
06:31
whether it's China, Greece, the Hindu civilization,
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不管是在中国、希腊或者是印度
06:36
or the Mayas, or Egyptians -- what we know about them
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或玛雅、或埃及
06:41
is really about their ecstasies, not about their everyday life.
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我们所听说的 都是关于他们的狂喜的故事 而不是他们日常生活的琐事
06:46
We know the temples they built, where people could come
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我们知道他们建了大型的殿堂
06:49
to experience a different reality.
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人们可以去到那样的地方去感受不一样的现实
06:51
We know about the circuses,
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还有马戏团的故事
06:54
the arenas, the theaters.
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斗兽场 戏院
06:57
These are the remains of civilizations and they are the places that people went
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这些都是文明之遗迹 也是当时的人们经常光顾的地方
07:05
to experience life in a more concentrated, more ordered form.
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他们去到那里去体验一种更加紧凑 更具节奏的生活
07:14
Now, this man doesn't need to go to a place like this,
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这个人不需要去到这样的地方
07:18
which is also -- this place, this arena, which is built
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这里 这块地方
07:22
like a Greek amphitheatre, is a place for ecstasy also.
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就像一个古希腊的斗兽场 也是一个狂欢之地
07:26
We are participating in a reality that is different
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我们参与进去 所体验到的
07:30
from that of the everyday life that we're used to.
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与日常生活完全不一样
07:33
But this man doesn't need to go there.
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但这并不意味着我们必须去到那样的地方
07:36
He needs just a piece of paper where he can put down little marks,
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这位作曲家只需一张纸 就能够把整个乐曲写下来
07:42
and as he does that, he can imagine sounds
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与此同时 他在脑海里想象
07:48
that had not existed before in that particular combination.
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一种从未有过的特殊的声音的组合
07:52
So once he gets to that point of beginning to create,
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只要他开始真正要创作
07:58
like Jennifer did in her improvisation,
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就像刚才珍妮弗的即兴演奏
08:01
a new reality -- that is, a moment of ecstasy --
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他就进入了一种新的现实 进入狂喜
08:06
he enters that different reality.
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那是不一样的现实
08:09
Now he says also that this is so intense an experience
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他说 那是一种非常紧凑的体验
08:13
that it feels almost as if he didn't exist.
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他似乎也感觉不到自己的存在
08:16
And that sounds like a kind of a romantic exaggeration.
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这也许有点夸张
08:22
But actually, our nervous system is incapable of processing
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但事实上我们的神经系统是无法
08:26
more than about 110 bits of information per second.
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在一秒的时间里同时处理超过110比特的信息
08:31
And in order to hear me and understand what I'm saying,
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你在听我说话 并且尝试去理解其中的意思
08:35
you need to process about 60 bits per second.
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这就相当于处理60比特的信息
08:39
That's why you can't hear more than two people.
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所以说 同时听到两个以上的人的会话是不可能的
08:42
You can't understand more than two people talking to you.
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你不可能同时做到这一点
08:45
Well, when you are really involved in this completely engaging process
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假如你真的是全身心的投入此间
08:56
of creating something new, as this man is,
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像这位作曲家那样去创造一种新的东西
08:59
he doesn't have enough attention left over to monitor
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就不可能再有精力
09:05
how his body feels, or his problems at home.
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去感知他的身体在那一刻发生的变化
09:09
He can't feel even that he's hungry or tired.
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不知饥饿与劳累
09:12
His body disappears,
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似乎整个躯体都消失了
09:15
his identity disappears from his consciousness,
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在他的意识里不再有自己的存在
09:20
because he doesn't have enough attention, like none of us do,
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他没有那么多精力 事实上我们某个人都不可能做得到
09:24
to really do well something that requires a lot of concentration,
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因为做那样的事情确实需要全副身心的投入
09:30
and at the same time to feel that he exists.
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他就不可能感知自己的存在了
09:32
So existence is temporarily suspended.
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他的存在被暂时遗忘了
09:37
And he says that his hand seems to be moving by itself.
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他自己也说 他的手似乎能够不由自主的活动
09:43
Now, I could look at my hand for two weeks, and I wouldn't feel
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我也许对着自己的手看两个星期 也不能看出有什么不一样的地方
09:51
any awe or wonder, because I can't compose. (Laughter)
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因为我不是作曲家
09:55
So what it's telling you here
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这说明了什么？
09:57
is that obviously this automatic,
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访谈当中还提到
10:04
spontaneous process that he's describing can only happen to someone
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这样一个自动的、自发的过程只有可能
10:09
who is very well trained and who has developed technique.
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发生在一个受过严格训练以及培养了良好的钢琴技艺的人身上
10:13
And it has become a kind of a truism in the study of creativity
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在创造力研究这一领域 有一个接近真理的说法是
10:20
that you can't be creating anything with less than 10 years
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没有10年时间的积累
10:25
of technical-knowledge immersion in a particular field.
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是不可能产生出这类的奇迹的
10:31
Whether it's mathematics or music, it takes that long
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不管是数学、音乐
10:36
to be able to begin to change something in a way that it's better
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都需要这样漫长的时间 来达到这个境界
10:44
than what was there before.
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达到一种全新的升华
10:47
Now, when that happens,
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而这样的事情一旦发生
10:49
he says the music just flows out.
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他就说 音乐仿佛是流出来了。
10:51
And because all of these people I started interviewing --
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而我所采访的这些人
10:55
this was an interview which is over 30 years old --
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这是一个30年前的会议记录
11:01
so many of the people described this as a spontaneous flow
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很多人将此称为“即兴的流动”
11:05
that I called this type of experience the "flow experience."
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这是我给过程起的名字是
11:10
And it happens in different realms.
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它正在不同的领域内发生
11:13
For instance, a poet describes it in this form.
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比如 有位诗人如此写到
11:17
This is by a student of mine who interviewed
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这是我的一位学生
11:20
some of the leading writers and poets in the United States.
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他采访了美国最杰出的作家、诗人
11:23
And it describes the same effortless, spontaneous feeling
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同样也是一种狂喜的状态
11:29
that you get when you enter into this ecstatic state.
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在那种状态下 诗人们可以非常轻松的写出诗来
11:32
This poet describes it as opening a door that floats in the sky --
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这位诗人则说 那就有如打开了通往天际之窗
11:37
a very similar description to what Albert Einstein gave
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这个跟爱因斯坦所说的
11:40
as to how he imagined the forces of relativity,
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关于相对论的设想非常相像
11:46
when he was struggling with trying to understand how it worked.
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那时的爱因斯坦也是在苦苦的思考为何那样的事情会发生
11:50
But it happens in other activities.
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在其他的领域也会发生这样的事情
11:55
For instance, this is another student of mine,
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这是我的另一位学生
11:57
Susan Jackson from Australia, who did work
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她叫苏珊·杰克逊，来自澳洲
12:01
with some of the leading athletes in the world.
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她采访了世界上顶尖的运动健将
12:05
And you see here in this description of an Olympic skater,
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这是关于一位奥林匹克滑冰运动员的的介绍
12:09
the same essential description of the phenomenology
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也是同样的一段现象学的描述
12:12
of the inner state of the person.
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描绘的是一个人的内心活动
12:14
You don't think; it goes automatically,
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你也许会认为那样的事情要自然的发生是不可能的
12:17
if you merge yourself with the music, and so forth.
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但只要当你将自己与音乐融为一体之时 就发现那是可能的
12:21
It happens also, actually, in the most recent book I wrote,
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我最近写了一本书，里面也提到这样的例子
12:25
called "Good Business," where I interviewed some of the CEOs
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书名是《优良商业》 我采访了一些公司的总裁
12:28
who had been nominated by their peers as being both very successful
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同行们都认为那些人是非常成功的
12:33
and very ethical, very socially responsible.
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并且他们做企业非常讲道德、有社会责任
12:36
You see that these people define success
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他们关于成功的定义是这样的
12:40
as something that helps others and at the same time
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既帮助他人的同时
12:45
makes you feel happy as you are working at it.
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使自己乐在其中
12:48
And like all of these successful and responsible CEOs say,
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这些成功并且富有社会责任的总裁也说到
12:55
you can't have just one of these things be successful
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单单有其中一样是不足以令你成功的
13:02
if you want a meaningful and successful job.
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假如你要的是有意义的工作、成功的工作
13:05
Anita Roddick is another one of these CEOs we interviewed.
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安妮塔·罗迪克是其中一位受访的总裁
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She is the founder of Body Shop,
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她创建了Body Shop，那是一个化妆品企业
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the natural cosmetics king.
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她自己则成为了天然化妆品之母
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It's kind of a passion that comes
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这正是一种热情
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from doing the best and having flow while you're working.
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它源自一个人对最高价值的追求 并且在工作中体会到一种“流动”
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This is an interesting little quote from Masaru Ibuka,
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这是井深大说过的一句话
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who was at that time starting out Sony without any money,
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他那时手无分文，却创建了索尼
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without a product -- they didn't have a product,
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他们那时甚至连产品也拿不出来
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they didn't have anything, but they had an idea.
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可谓一无所有 但是他们有一个理念
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And the idea he had was to establish a place of work where engineers
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即他要创建一个工作环境
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can feel the joy of technological innovation,
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使得工程师可以体验到技术创新带来的快乐
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be aware of their mission to society and work to their heart's content.
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同时也意识到自身对于社会的使命 以最大的热情工作 直到自己内心满意为止
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I couldn't improve on this as a good example
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再也没有比这个更好的例子了
13:54
of how flow enters the workplace.
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“流动”就是这样走进公司的
13:57
Now, when we do studies --
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而我们在做研究的时候
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we have, with other colleagues around the world,
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我们与世界其他地区的研究员一起
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done over 8,000 interviews of people -- from Dominican monks,
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访问了8000人，他们有的是多米尼加的和尚
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to blind nuns, to Himalayan climbers, to Navajo shepherds --
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失明的尼姑、喜马拉雅山攀登者、納瓦霍牧羊人
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who enjoy their work.
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他们都喜欢自己的工作
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And regardless of the culture,
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不管他们身处什么地方
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regardless of education or whatever, there are these seven conditions
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不管他们的教育背景如何 只要存在以下的七个条件
14:27
that seem to be there when a person is in flow.
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我们就能感受到“流动”的存在
14:31
There's this focus that, once it becomes intense,
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首先是精神的集中
14:35
leads to a sense of ecstasy, a sense of clarity:
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集中到一定程度 就会走向狂喜 清醒
14:39
you know exactly what you want to do from one moment to the other;
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可以很清楚的知道自己下一刻该做什么
14:42
you get immediate feedback.
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因为你能够得到即时的反馈
14:44
You know that what you need to do
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你知道自己将要做的
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is possible to do, even though difficult,
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是可以做的 尽管会遇到不少困难
14:49
and sense of time disappears, you forget yourself,
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时间感也消失了 你甚至忘却了自我
14:52
you feel part of something larger.
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似乎能感到自己属于某个更大的整体
14:55
And once the conditions are present,
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而一旦有了那样的征兆
14:58
what you are doing becomes worth doing for its own sake.
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你做的事情本身也会变得有意义
15:03
In our studies, we represent the everyday life of people in this simple scheme.
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我们的研究得出的结果是 人们的日常行为可以分为以下几大类
15:09
And we can measure this very precisely, actually,
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我们可以非常准确的去测量
15:13
because we give people electronic pagers that go off 10 times a day,
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我们会给参与测试的人发电子纸 那样的纸每天会发出十次叫声
15:17
and whenever they go off you say what you're doing, how you feel,
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它一叫 你就马上说自己正在干什么
15:22
where you are, what you're thinking about.
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你在哪里 你正在想的是什么
15:24
And two things that we measure is the amount of challenge
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我们测量的，一是人们在某一刻所面临的挑战的难度
15:27
people experience at that moment and the amount of skill
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另一个是那一刻人们的技能熟练程度
15:31
that they feel they have at that moment.
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靠的是参与者自己说明
15:34
So for each person we can establish an average,
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对于每一位参与者 我们都能找到一个中间线
15:37
which is the center of the diagram.
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即图表中的中线
15:40
That would be your mean level of challenge and skill,
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那是平均挑战难度以及技能熟练程度
15:43
which will be different from that of anybody else.
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这个会与其他人的不一样
15:46
But you have a kind of a set point there, which would be in the middle.
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同样 在中间的地方会有一个固定的点
15:51
If we know what that set point is,
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假如我们能够知道这个固定的点在哪里
15:53
we can predict fairly accurately when you will be in flow,
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我们就能大致预测出你何时会走进“流动”的状态
15:58
and it will be when your challenges are higher than average
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那就是挑战大于平均值
16:01
and skills are higher than average.
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技能熟练程度也大于平均值的时候
16:03
And you may be doing things very differently from other people,
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你做的事情也许和其他人做的很不一样
16:07
but for everyone that flow channel, that area there,
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但是，对于每一个人，流动的出现
16:11
will be when you are doing what you really like to do --
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通常都是在你做自己真正热爱的事情的时候才出现
16:15
play the piano, be with your best friend, perhaps work,
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比如弹钢琴、跟好友在一起、甚或是工作
16:21
if work is what provides flow for you.
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假如你可以在工作中感受到“流动”的话
16:25
And then the other areas become less and less positive.
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而其他的区域则变得相对更加消极
16:29
Arousal is still good because you are over-challenged there.
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觉醒还是好的，因为你在那一点上还是有较大的挑战
16:34
Your skills are not quite as high as they should be,
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尽管你的技能熟悉程度不是很高
16:36
but you can move into flow fairly easily
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但是可以很容易的进入“流动”
16:39
by just developing a little more skill.
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只要增强一下技能就行了
16:42
So, arousal is the area where most people learn from,
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觉醒是大多数人学习的地方
16:46
because that's where they're pushed beyond their comfort zone
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他们在那样的区域就被迫走出舒适圈
16:52
and to enter that -- going back to flow --
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而后走进流动
16:55
then they develop higher skills.
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学会更高级的技能
16:57
Control is also a good place to be,
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“控制”也是一个不错的地方
17:01
because there you feel comfortable, but not very excited.
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因为你能感到舒服 虽然不是很激动
17:05
It's not very challenging any more.
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挑战也不是很强烈
17:08
And if you want to enter flow from control,
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假如要从那里走进“流动”
17:10
you have to increase the challenges.
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就要增强挑战的程度
17:13
So those two are ideal and complementary areas
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这两者是理想化的、相互补充的区域
17:17
from which flow is easy to go into.
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从这些地方可以很容易的进入“流动”
17:21
The other combinations of challenge and skill
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而挑战与技能的其他搭配
17:24
become progressively less optimal.
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则会显得越来越消极
17:27
Relaxation is fine -- you still feel OK.
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休息是好的 因为你还能感到舒适
17:29
Boredom begins to be very aversive
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但厌倦就会产生反作用了
17:34
and apathy becomes very negative:
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而冷漠则会带来非常消极的后果
17:38
you don't feel that you're doing anything,
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因为你觉得自己根本就没有干出什么实际的事情
17:42
you don't use your skills, there's no challenge.
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你没有在使用好你的技能 也没有什么挑战
17:44
Unfortunately, a lot of people's experience is in apathy.
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遗憾的是 很多人所经历的 大多是冷漠
17:49
The largest single contributor to that experience
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而导致这种情绪的元凶
17:56
is watching television; the next one is being in the bathroom, sitting.
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就是看电视 其次则是蹲茅厕
18:02
Even though sometimes watching television
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虽然有时候看电视
18:08
about seven to eight percent of the time is in flow,
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也有7%-8%的时间是处于“流动”
18:12
but that's when you choose a program you really want to watch
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但那是在你挑选了一个你真正喜欢的频道的时候
18:15
and you get feedback from it.
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你能够得到即时的反馈
18:18
So the question we are trying to address -- and I'm way over time --
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因此 我们要问的问题是
18:24
is how to put more and more of everyday life in that flow channel.
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如何使得我们的生活更多的处于“流动”的状态
18:30
And that is the kind of challenge that we're trying to understand.
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我们正在慢慢的解开其中的秘密
18:35
And some of you obviously know how to do that spontaneously
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你们当中有人懂得如何去做
18:38
without any advice, but unfortunately a lot of people don't.
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哪怕我不给你任何提示 可惜大多数人都不会
18:42
And that's what our mandate is, in a way, to do.
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而我们的任务之一 就是帮助那些人寻找到做事情的方法
18:48
Thank you.
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谢谢大家
18:49
(Applause)
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（掌声）
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi - Positive psychologistMihaly Csikszentmihalyi has contributed pioneering work to our understanding of happiness, creativity, human fulfillment and the notion of "flow" -- a state of heightened focus and immersion in activities such as art, play and work.
Why you should listen
Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi says creativity is a central source of meaning in our lives. A leading researcher in positive psychology, he has devoted his life to studying what makes people truly happy: "When we are involved in [creativity], we feel that we are living more fully than during the rest of life." He is the architect of the notion of "flow" -- the creative moment when a person is completely involved in an activity for its own sake.
Csikszentmihalyi teaches psychology and management at Claremont Graduate University, focusing on human strengths such as optimism, motivation and responsibility. He's the director the Quality of Life Research Center there. He has written numerous books and papers about the search for joy and fulfillment.
Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi | Speaker | TED.com