TEDxRiodelaPlata
Dan Ariely: What makes us feel good about our work?
丹‧艾瑞利：是什麼讓我們喜歡自己的工作?
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是什麼驅使我們工作? 跟傳統想法相反的，答案並不只是錢，但也不完全是喜悅。似乎，我們大多數都是以不斷進步以及明確的目標來讓我們茁壯地成長。
行為經濟學家，丹‧艾瑞利在此帶給你兩個讓你大開眼界的實驗，顯現我們面對工作意義時令人意想不到的微妙態度。
(拍攝地點: TEDxRiodelaPlata)
Dan Ariely - Behavioral economist
The dismal science of economics is not as firmly grounded in actual behavior as was once supposed. In "Predictably Irrational," Dan Ariely told us why. Full bio
The dismal science of economics is not as firmly grounded in actual behavior as was once supposed. In "Predictably Irrational," Dan Ariely told us why. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:12
I want to talk a little bit today
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我今天想來談談
00:14
about labor and work.
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勞動與工作。
00:18
When we think about how people work,
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當談到人們是怎麼工作的時候，
00:21
the naive intuition we have
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我們的直覺是
00:23
is that people are like rats in a maze --
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人們就有如迷宮中的老鼠一樣 --
00:25
that all people care about is money,
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都只在乎錢
(老鼠只在乎芝士)
(老鼠只在乎芝士)
00:28
and the moment we give people money,
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只要我們給錢，
00:29
we can direct them to work one way,
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就可以隨意地命令他們這樣做，
00:31
we can direct them to work another way.
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或是那樣做。
00:33
This is why we give bonuses to bankers and pay in all kinds of ways.
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這就是為什麼我們會給銀行家紅利和各種補貼。
00:36
And we really have this incredibly simplistic view
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我們對於人們工作的原因和勞工市場
00:40
of why people work and what the labor market looks like.
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也有著非常天真的看法。
00:44
At the same time, if you think about it,
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與此同時，如果你想想看，你就會發現
00:47
there's all kinds of strange behaviors in the world around us.
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其實我們身邊充滿著千古百怪的行為。
00:50
Think about something like mountaineering and mountain climbing.
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拿登山和攀登來說好了。
00:53
If you read books of people who climb mountains, difficult mountains,
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當你閱讀克服高山的登山者傳記時，
00:58
do you think that those books are full of moments of joy and happiness?
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你認為書中充滿喜悅和快樂的時刻嗎?
01:03
No, they are full of misery.
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不，裡頭充滿痛苦。
01:05
In fact, it's all about frostbite and difficulty to walk
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事實上，全是凍傷、舉步維艱
01:09
and difficulty of breathing --
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呼吸困難 --
01:11
cold, challenging circumstances.
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寒冷、艱難的生存條件。
01:14
And if people were just trying to be happy,
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如果人們就只是想要獲得，
01:16
the moment they would get to the top,
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在攻頂那一剎那的快樂的話，
01:18
they would say, "This was a terrible mistake.
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他們會說：「這真是個可怕的錯誤。
01:20
I'll never do it again."
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我打死也不會再做這種事了。」
01:21
(Laughter)
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(笑聲)
01:23
"Instead, let me sit on a beach somewhere drinking mojitos."
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「還是讓我坐在沙灘上享用莫吉托(雞尾酒) 吧。」
01:27
But instead, people go down,
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但卻恰好相反，他們下山後，
01:30
and after they recover, they go up again.
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體力一旦恢復，他們又會再度出發。
01:33
And if you think about mountain climbing as an example,
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若以登山為例，
01:36
it suggests all kinds of things.
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它說明了很多事情。
01:38
It suggests that we care about reaching the end, a peak.
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它說明了我們是在乎能否抵達終點，直到巔峰。
01:42
It suggests that we care about the fight, about the challenge.
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也說明我們在乎過程中的堅持與挑戰。
01:46
It suggests that there's all kinds of other things
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它意味著世上還有許多事物可以
01:48
that motivate us to work or behave in all kinds of ways.
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促使我們在各領域上努力工作或表現。
01:53
And for me personally, I started thinking about this
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對我來說，我是在一位學生來探望我之後
01:56
after a student came to visit me.
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才開始思考這件事的。
01:59
This was a student that was one of my students a few years earlier.
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他是我幾年前的學生。
02:03
And he came one day back to campus.
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有一天他回到校園
02:05
And he told me the following story:
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敘述以下的故事給我聽：
02:08
He said that for more than two weeks, he was working on a PowerPoint presentation.
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他說他為了一份簡報忙了兩個多禮拜。
02:13
He was working in a big bank.
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那時他在一間大銀行工作。
02:15
This was in preparation for a merger and acquisition.
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這份簡報是為公司的併購計劃而準備的。
02:19
And he was working very hard on this presentation --
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他也盡心盡力地去做這份簡報--
02:21
graphs, tables, information.
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圖表，表格，資料。
02:23
He stayed late at night every day.
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他每天都在熬夜。
02:27
And the day before it was due,
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在截止日的前一天
02:29
he sent his PowerPoint presentation to his boss,
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他把這份簡報寄給了他的老闆，
02:32
and his boss wrote him back and said,
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而他老闆則回應他說：
02:35
"Nice presentation, but the merger is canceled."
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「這份簡報做得還不錯，但合併計劃已經取消了。」
02:40
And the guy was deeply depressed.
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之後他就覺得非常沮喪。
02:42
Now at the moment when he was working,
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但當他在做這份簡報的時候
02:44
he was actually quite happy.
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他其實還滿開心的。
02:46
Every night he was enjoying his work,
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每個晚上他都很享受著這份工作，
02:48
he was staying late, he was perfecting this PowerPoint presentation.
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享受著熬夜，也享受著把簡報完美化。
02:53
But knowing that nobody would ever watch that made him quite depressed.
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可是得知沒有人會看到這份簡報之後，他大受打擊。
02:58
So I started thinking about how do we experiment
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所以我才開始思考我們該如何實驗
03:01
with this idea of the fruits of our labor.
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勞動的成果這個概念。
03:05
And to start with, we created a little experiment
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一開始，我們設計了一個小實驗。
03:09
in which we gave people Legos, and we asked them to build with Legos.
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實驗中，我們把樂高給實驗對象並要求他們堆出東西。
03:15
And for some people, we gave them Legos and we said,
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其中一部份的人，在我們給他們樂高之後，我們就跟他說，
03:19
"Hey, would you like to build this Bionicle for three dollars?
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「你願不願組出一個價值 $3.00 的 ”生化戰士” (Bionicle)?」
03:24
We'll pay you three dollars for it."
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我們會用 $3.00 跟你買。」
03:26
And people said yes, and they built with these Legos.
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他們答應之後便用樂高組出 ”生化戰士”。
03:29
And when they finished, we took it, we put it under the table,
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完成之後，我們把成品拿走並將它放置在桌下，
03:33
and we said, "Would you like to build another one, this time for $2.70?"
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然後再問：「你願不願意再組一個? 這次價格為 $2.70。」
03:38
If they said yes, we gave them another one.
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如果他們答應，我們再給他們另一組樂高。
03:40
And when they finished, we asked them,
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他們完成之後，我們又問他們，
03:41
"Do you want to build another one?" for $2.40, $2.10, and so on,
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「你想不想再組一個?」價格為 $2.40, 為$2.10… 以此類推，
03:46
until at some point people said, "No more. It's not worth it for me."
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直到他們說，「這根本划不來，我不做了。」
03:51
This was what we called the meaningful condition.
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這就是我們稱為有意義的狀況。
03:54
People built one Bionicle after another.
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實驗對象堆出一個又一個 ”生化戰士”。
03:57
After they finished every one of them, we put them under the table.
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當他們全部都完成之後，我們就把成品放在桌下
04:00
And we told them that at the end of the experiment,
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並在實驗最後告知他們，
04:03
we will take all these Bionicles, we will disassemble them,
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我們會回收並拆解所有的 ”生化戰士”，
04:06
we will put them back in the boxes, and we will use it for the next participant.
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我們會把它們放回箱子給下一個對象使用。
04:11
There was another condition.
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還有另一個情形。
04:13
This other condition was inspired by David, my student.
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這個情形是從我的學生，大衛，身上所得到的靈感。
04:17
And this other condition we called the Sisyphic condition.
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我們稱它為西西弗斯的狀況。
04:21
And if you remember the story about Sisyphus,
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如果你記得西西弗斯的故事，
04:23
Sisyphus was punished by the gods to push the same rock up a hill,
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西西弗斯受到上帝的懲罰
並要他把一塊特定的巨石推上山頂，
並要他把一塊特定的巨石推上山頂，
04:28
and when he almost got to the end,
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正當他將要抵達終點的時候，
04:30
the rock would roll over, and he would have to start again.
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這塊巨石就會滾下山，那他就得再來一次。
04:33
And you can think about this as the essence of doing futile work.
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你可以把這當作是徒勞的本質。
04:38
You can imagine that if he pushed the rock on different hills,
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你可以想像如果他把石塊推往其他的山，
04:41
at least he would have some sense of progress.
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他至少會感覺有些許的進展。
04:44
Also, if you look at prison movies,
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還有，如果你看過以監獄為題材的電影
04:46
sometimes the way that the guards torture the prisoners
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那你就會發現有時候獄警虐待犯人的方法
04:50
is to get them to dig a hole
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就是叫他們去挖地洞。
04:52
and when the prisoner is finished, they ask him to fill the hole back up and then dig again.
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當犯人挖完以後，獄警們就會讓他把洞給補滿然後再重挖。
04:56
There's something about this cyclical version
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在這個週期性
04:59
of doing something over and over and over
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一而再地重復做某一件事的行為之中
05:01
that seems to be particularly demotivating.
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彷彿有些什麼東西是特別讓人消極的。
05:04
So in the second condition of this experiment, that's exactly what we did.
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所以我們就在第二個情形的實驗當中這麼做。
05:07
We asked people, "Would you like to build one Bionicle for three dollars?"
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我們問實驗對象，「你想不想堆出一個價值為 $3.00 的 "生化戰士"?」
05:12
And if they said yes, they built it.
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如果他們說好，那他們就會去堆一個出來。
05:14
Then we asked them, "Do you want to build another one for $2.70?"
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之後我們再問他們，「你想不想為$2.70再造一個? 」
05:18
And if they said yes, we gave them a new one,
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如果他們說好，那我們就會給他們一個新的 "生化戰士"。
05:21
and as they were building it,
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在他們在堆的時後，
05:23
we took apart the one that they just finished.
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我們就會把他們前一個成品給拆了。
05:26
And when they finished that,
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然後當他們完成後，
05:29
we said, "Would you like to build another one, this time for 30 cents less?"
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我們又會說，「你願不願意再造一個? 這次會比上一個少 $0.30」
05:32
And if they said yes, we gave them the one that they built and we broke.
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如果他們又說好，我們就會把之前拆掉的給他們。
05:36
So this was an endless cycle
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所以，這就是個永無止境的循環，
05:39
of them building and us destroying in front of their eyes.
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他們不停地堆而我們則是不停地當著他們的面拆。
05:44
Now what happens when you compare these two conditions?
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如果你拿這兩種情形來比較，會發生什麼狀況呢?
05:48
The first thing that happened
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第一件發生的事就是
05:49
was that people built many more Bionicles -- they built 11 versus seven --
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一組人堆出較多的 "生化戰士" -- 數量為 11 比 7
05:53
in the meaningful condition versus the Sisyphus condition.
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這是有意義狀況和西西弗斯相較之下的比值。
05:56
And by the way, we should point out that this was not a big meaning.
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我們應該順便提一下，這結果的意義其實並不大。
05:59
People were not curing cancer or building bridges.
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他們並不是在治療癌症，也不是在建橋梁。
06:02
People were building Bionicles for a few cents.
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他們只是在為了幾毛錢去堆 "生化戰士"罷了。
06:06
And not only that, everybody knew that the Bionicles would be destroyed quite soon.
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不僅如此，大家都知道堆出來的 "生化戰士" 很快就會被拆掉。
06:11
So there was not a real opportunity for big meaning.
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所以從頭到尾也沒所謂的重大意義。
06:14
But even the small meaning made a difference.
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但即便是意義小，也有影響力。
06:18
Now we had another version of this experiment.
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現在我們有另一個實驗版本。
06:20
In this other version of the experiment,
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在這個版本中，
06:22
we didn't put people in this situation,
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沒有人參與這個情況，
06:24
we just described to them the situation, much as I am describing to you now,
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我們只跟他們講述，
就像我跟你們描述一樣。
就像我跟你們描述一樣。
06:28
and we asked them to predict what the result would be.
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然後我們請他們預測結果。
06:31
What happened?
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發生什麼事了呢?
06:33
People predicted the right direction but not the right magnitude.
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大家的預測大致上都是對的，但數值上卻有所出入。
06:37
People who were just given the description of the experiment
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那些只聽過描述的實驗對象
06:41
said that in the meaningful condition people would probably build one more Bionicle.
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表示他們大概會在有意義的情況下多堆一個 "生化戰士" 出來。
06:45
So people understand that meaning is important,
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所以說，大家都了解意義很重要，
06:47
they just don't understand the magnitude of the importance,
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但他們只是不了解它有"多"重要，
06:50
the extent to which it's important.
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是何種程度上的重要。
06:52
There was one other piece of data we looked at.
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我們還可以參考另一個數據。
06:55
If you think about it, there are some people who love Legos and some people who don't.
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你想一下就會發現有的人很喜歡樂高，也有的人不喜歡。
07:00
And you would speculate that the people who love Legos
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你應該可以推測出來，喜歡樂高的人
07:02
will build more Legos, even for less money,
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即使錢比較少，他們還是會去堆多些樂高
07:05
because after all, they get more internal joy from it.
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因為他們畢竟會從中得到更多的喜悅。
07:08
And the people who love Legos less will build less Legos
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相對的，那些比較不喜歡樂高的人會堆較少的樂高
07:11
because the enjoyment that they derive from it is lower.
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因為他們從中得到的喜悅較少。
07:14
And that's actually what we found in the meaningful condition.
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其實就是我們在有意義的狀況中得到的結果。
07:17
There was a very nice correlation between love of Lego
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對樂高的喜愛度和成品的數量
07:20
and the amount of Legos people built.
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成正比。
07:22
What happened in the Sisyphic condition?
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那西西弗斯狀況下出現了什麼情形呢?
07:25
In that condition the correlation was zero.
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在這個情況中，相關性為零。
07:28
There was no relationship between the love of Lego and how much people built,
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對樂高的喜愛和成品的數量是毫無關係的
07:32
which suggests to me that with this manipulation
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並告訴我，在人們面前
07:35
of breaking things in front of people's eyes,
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摧毀東西的這個手段，
07:37
we basically crushed any joy that they could get out of this activity.
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基本上我們是在粉碎他們從中得到的任何喜悅。
07:42
We basically eliminated it.
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我們根本就是把它給毀滅了。
07:45
Soon after I finished running this experiment,
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這實驗一結束，
07:49
I went to talk to a big software company in Seattle.
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我去跟一家在西雅圖的大軟體公司。
07:53
I can't tell you who they were, but they were a big company in Seattle.
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我不能跟你說他們是誰，但是他們在西雅圖是一家大公司。
07:56
And this was a group within this software company that was put in a different building.
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在這個軟體公司的這組人被安置在另一個大廈。
08:01
And they asked them to innovate and create the next big product for this company.
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為了創造出下一個創新的當紅產品。
08:06
And the week before I showed up,
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在我出現的前一週，
08:08
the CEO of this big software company went to that group, 200 engineers,
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這公司的執行長當著這一組，200位工程師的面
08:12
and canceled the project.
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取消了他們的項目。
08:15
And I stood there in front of 200 of the most depressed people I've ever talked to.
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我站在這群我這輩子交談過最沮喪的200個人面前。
08:20
And I described to them some of these Lego experiments,
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開始跟他們描述這些樂高實驗，
08:23
and they said they felt like they had just been through that experiment.
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他們說，他們彷彿身歷其境。
08:28
And I asked them, I said,
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我問他們，
08:30
"How many of you now show up to work later than you used to?"
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「有多少人現在比以前晚到公司的?」
08:33
And everybody raised their hand.
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大家都舉手。
08:35
I said, "How many of you now go home earlier than you used to?"
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我又問：「又有多少人是比往常更早回家的?」
08:38
And everybody raised their hand.
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大家又舉起了手。
08:40
I asked them, "How many of you now add not-so-kosher things to your expense reports?"
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我再問他們：「你們現在有多少個人在開銷報告中加入了不太適當的事物?」
08:46
And they didn't really raise their hands,
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他們沒有舉手，
08:48
but they took me out to dinner and showed me what they could do with expense reports.
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但在他們帶我去晚餐的時候，
實際展現了他們花公帳的能力。
實際展現了他們花公帳的能力。
08:53
And then I asked them, I said,
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於是我問他們：
08:55
"What could the CEO have done to make you not as depressed?"
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「你們的執行長該如何做才能讓你們減低沮喪呢?」
09:00
And they came up with all kinds of ideas.
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他們想出一堆點子。
09:02
They said the CEO could have asked them to present to the whole company
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他們說，執行長可以讓他們向整個公司報告
09:05
about their journey over the last two years and what they decided to do.
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他們這兩年來的歷程以及想要執行的計劃。
09:09
He could have asked them to think about which aspect of their technology
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或是請他們想一想他們的技術上哪一方面
09:12
could fit with other parts of the organization.
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可以跟公司其他的部門融合在一起。
09:16
He could have asked them to build some prototypes, some next-generation prototypes,
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他可以請他們製造一些原型，
一些新一代的原型
一些新一代的原型
09:19
and seen how they would work.
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並測試它們。
09:21
But the thing is that any one of those
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但以上任何一項提議都
09:23
would require some effort and motivation.
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需要些許的努力與動機。
09:26
And I think the CEO basically did not understand the importance of meaning.
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我覺得執行長基本上不懂"意義"的重要性。
09:30
If the CEO, just like our participants,
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如果這執行長像我們的實驗對象一樣，
09:33
thought the essence of meaning is unimportant,
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覺得意義的本質是不重要的，
09:36
then he [wouldn't] care.
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那他就不會在乎。
09:37
And he would tell them, "At the moment I directed you in this way,
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而且他就會告訴他們，「那時候，我叫你們去東，
09:40
and now that I am directing you in this way,
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現在我叫你們去西，
09:42
everything will be okay."
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一切都會沒問題的。」
09:44
But if you understood how important meaning is,
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但如果你明白"意義"的重要性，
09:46
then you would figure out that it's actually important
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你應該知道花一些時間精力
09:49
to spend some time, energy and effort
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努力讓人們關心自己所做的事
09:50
in getting people to care more about what they're doing.
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是很重要的。
09:54
The next experiment was slightly different.
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下一個實驗有點不同。
09:57
We took a sheet of paper with random letters,
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我們拿了一張紙，上面隨意的寫上了一些字母，
09:59
and we asked people to find pairs of letters that were identical next to each other.
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我們請實驗對象在紙上找出和相鄰相同的字母組。
10:04
That was the task.
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這個就是他們的課題。(文書處理)
10:05
And people did the first sheet.
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然後他們把第一張做完。
10:06
And then we asked them if they wanted to do the next sheet for a little bit less money
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我們問他們願不願以較低的工資再做一張
10:09
and the next sheet for a little bit less money, and so on and so forth.
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下一張的錢又少了些，以此類推。
10:12
And we had three conditions.
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我們有三種情況。
10:14
In the first condition, people wrote their name on the sheet,
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在第一種情況，實驗對象把他們的名字寫在紙上，
10:18
found all the pairs of letters, gave it to the experimenter.
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等找到所有的字母組後，把紙交給研究人員。
10:22
The experimenter would look at it, scan it from top to bottom,
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研究人員會把那張紙重頭看到尾，
10:25
say "uh huh" and put it on the pile next to them.
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說聲「對」 然後把它放在旁邊的紙堆上。
10:30
In the second condition, people did not write their name on it.
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第二種情況，實驗對象不用把名字寫在紙上。
10:33
The experimenter looked at it,
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研究人員看了它一眼
10:36
took the sheet of paper, did not look at it, did not scan it,
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就把紙給拿走了，連讀也不讀
10:39
and simply put it on the pile of pages.
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直接把它放在紙堆上。
10:42
So you take a piece, you just put it on the side.
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也就是說，你拿了一張，然後就將它放在一旁。
10:45
And in the third condition,
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然後，第三種狀況，
10:46
the experimenter got the sheet of paper and directly put it into a shredder.
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研究人員拿到紙後，直接把它放入碎紙機中。
10:54
What happened in those three conditions?
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這三種情況會造成什麼結果呢?
10:57
In this plot I'm showing you at what pay rate people stopped.
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現在我給你看的圖表是告訴你
人們是在什麼支付費率停止的。
人們是在什麼支付費率停止的。
11:02
So low numbers mean that people worked harder. They worked for much longer.
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也就是說，數字越低表示人們較努力，也做得較久。
11:06
In the acknowledged condition, people worked all the way down to 15 cents.
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在受到肯定的條件下，人們願意一直做到 $0.15 元。
11:11
At 15 cents per page, they basically stopped these efforts.
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當工資為每張 $0.15 時，基本上，他們就不再做了。
11:15
In the shredder condition, it was twice as much -- 30 cents per sheet.
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碎紙機的情況中，工資為前者整整高出兩倍之多 -- 每張 $0.30
11:20
And this is basically the result we had before.
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基本上和我們之前所得到的結果一樣。
11:22
You shred people's efforts, output,
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你撕碎了他人的努力和成果，
11:25
you get them not to be as happy with what they're doing.
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你讓他們對自己所做得事感到不是那麼開心。
11:28
But I should point out, by the way,
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但同時，我應該指出，
11:29
that in the shredder condition, people could have cheated.
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在碎紙機的情況下，人們也許會作弊。
11:32
They could have done not so good work,
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他們可以不把事情做好，
11:34
because they realized that people were just shredding it.
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因為他們意識到之後人們也只會把它給撕碎。
11:37
So maybe the first sheet you would do good work,
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因此，你第一張紙可能會做得不錯，
11:39
but then you see nobody is really testing it,
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但當你看到沒有人會用心去撿查它，
11:41
so you would do more and more and more.
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那你就會做多點，多點，再多點。
11:43
So in fact, in the shredder condition,
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所以事實上，在碎紙機的情形下，
11:45
people could have submitted more work and gotten more money
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人們可以遞交更多的成品並取得更多的錢
11:47
and put less effort into it.
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也較不用心工作。
11:50
But what about the ignored condition?
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那採取不理不睬的情況又是如何的呢?
11:52
Would the ignored condition be more like the acknowledged or more like the shredder,
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這情況中會不會跟受肯定的情形較類似
還是跟碎紙機的情形較類似，
還是跟碎紙機的情形較類似，
11:55
or somewhere in the middle?
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還是介於兩者之間?
11:58
It turns out it was almost like the shredder.
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結果顯示這個情形跟碎紙機十分相似。
12:01
Now there's good news and bad news here.
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現在有一個好消息和一個壞消息。
12:04
The bad news is that ignoring the performance of people
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壞消息是，忽略他人的表現
12:08
is almost as bad as shredding their effort in front of their eyes.
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就有如在他人的眼前把他們的努力撕碎一樣的差。
12:13
Ignoring gets you a whole way out there.
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忽略會讓你感到如此惡劣。
12:17
The good news is that by simply looking at something that somebody has done,
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好消息就是，只要把他人的成果簡單的看一下，
12:21
scanning it and saying "uh huh,"
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略看一下並說聲"對"，
12:23
that seems to be quite sufficient
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這似乎就已經足夠
12:25
to dramatically improve people's motivations.
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大大提昇人們的動機。
12:28
So the good news is that adding motivation doesn't seem to be so difficult.
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所以說，好消息就是要增加動機其實一點也不難。
12:33
The bad news is that eliminating motivations
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壞消息就是要消滅動機
12:36
seems to be incredibly easy,
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比想像中來得容易多了，
12:37
and if we don't think about it carefully, we might overdo it.
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而且如果我們不謹慎思考一下，
我們也許會做過了頭。
我們也許會做過了頭。
12:41
So this is all in terms of negative motivation
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因此這一切就是有關負面動機
12:45
or eliminating negative motivation.
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或消除負面動機。
12:47
The next part I want to show you is something about the positive motivation.
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接下來我要讓你們看些和正面動機相關的東西。
12:52
So there is a store in the U.S. called IKEA.
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在美國有一家店叫 IKEA 。
12:56
And IKEA is a store with kind of okay furniture that takes a long time to assemble.
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IKEA 賣的傢俱還算可以，
但組裝起來卻很耗時。
但組裝起來卻很耗時。
13:03
(Laughter)
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(笑聲)
13:05
And I don't know about you, but every time I assemble one of those,
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我不知道你啦，但每一次我組合它們的傢俱時
13:08
it takes me much longer, it's much more effortful, it's much more confusing.
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我都需要更久~~的時間、更大~~的努力、
非常非常混亂。
非常非常混亂。
13:12
I put things in the wrong way.
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我會把東西裝錯。
13:15
I can't say enjoy those pieces.
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我很難說我享受那些傢俱。
13:17
I can't say I enjoy the process.
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或是組裝傢俱的過程。
13:21
But when I finish it, I seem to like those IKEA pieces of furniture
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但一旦組合好後，我似乎喜愛 IKEA 的傢俱
13:24
more than I like other ones.
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勝過其它的傢俱。
13:27
And there's an old story about cake mixes.
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接下來，有一個關於蛋糕混合粉的古老故事。
13:31
So when they started cake mixes in the '40s,
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話說在 40 年代，他們開始弄蛋糕預拌粉的時候，
13:34
they would take this powder and they would put it in a box,
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他們將這些粉放入盒子中，
13:38
and they would ask housewives to basically pour it in, stir some water in it,
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並請家庭主婦直接倒出來，加入些許的水，
13:42
mix it, put it in the oven, and -- voila! -- you had cake.
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攪拌均勻，放入烤箱，然後 -- 就這樣! --- 你就有蛋糕了。
13:47
But it turns out they were very unpopular.
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但結果卻是它們非常不受歡迎。
13:49
People did not want them.
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人們不想要它們。
13:51
And they thought about all kinds of reasons for that.
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之後，他們為了這件事想出各式各樣的原因。
13:53
Maybe the taste was not good.
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可能是味道不好。
13:55
No, the taste was great.
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不，味道很棒。
13:56
What they figured out was that there was not enough effort involved.
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他們得出的結果是，人們在製作過程中付出的心力不夠多。
14:01
It was so easy that nobody could serve cake to their guests
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因為過程太簡單，所以人們不能請客人品嚐這蛋糕
14:05
and say, "Here is my cake."
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並說：「這是我做的蛋糕。」
14:07
No, no, no, it was somebody else's cake.
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不不不，這是別人的蛋糕。
14:08
It was as if you bought it in the store.
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它就跟你從商店中買到一樣。
14:10
It didn't really feel like your own.
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它感覺上不是你自己的。
14:13
So what did they do?
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那他們怎麼做呢?
14:15
They took the eggs and the milk out of the powder.
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他們將粉中的雞蛋和牛奶拿走。
14:18
(Laughter)
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(笑聲)
14:20
Now you had to break the eggs and add them.
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現在你得敲開雞蛋，親自加入。
14:23
You had to measure the milk and add it, mixing it.
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你得測量牛奶，加入並攪拌它。
14:26
Now it was your cake. Now everything was fine.
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現在它就是你的蛋糕了。這樣問題都解決了。
14:29
(Applause)
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(鼓掌聲)
14:39
Now I think a little bit like the IKEA effect,
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我現在想法有點像 IKEA 效應，
14:42
by getting people to work harder,
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要求人們更努力工作，
14:44
they actually got them to love what they're doing to a higher degree.
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可能會讓他們更熱愛自己所作。
14:47
So how do we look at this question experimentally?
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我們如何用實驗來看待這問題?
14:50
We asked people to build some origami.
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我們請人們做一些摺紙。
14:53
We gave them instructions on how to create origami,
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我們給了他們摺紙的步驟
14:56
and we gave them a sheet of paper.
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和一張紙。
14:57
And these were all novices, and they built something that was really quite ugly --
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還有這些人全都是新手，
而他們摺出來的東西其實還滿醜的
而他們摺出來的東西其實還滿醜的
15:02
nothing like a frog or a crane.
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根本不像青蛙或是鶴。
15:04
But then we told them, we said, "Look, this origami really belongs to us.
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但之後我們跟他們說：「聽著，這摺紙其實是屬於我們的。
15:08
You worked for us, but I'll tell you what, we'll sell it to you.
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你幫我們工作，但我跟你說，我們會把它賣給你。
15:11
How much do you want to pay for it?"
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你願意為它付多少錢?」
15:13
And we measured how much they were willing to pay for it.
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我們就測量他們所願意付出的價錢。
15:16
And we had two types of people.
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當中，我們有兩種人。
15:18
We had the people who built it,
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我們有親自動手製造的人，
15:20
and we had the people who did not build it and just looked at it as external observers.
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也有沒去製造而只是以觀察者的身份來觀察的人。
15:25
And what we found was that the builders thought
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結果，我們所發現的是，製造者們會認為
15:27
that these were beautiful pieces of origami,
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這些是很漂亮的摺紙作品，
15:30
and they were willing to pay for them five times more
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而且他們所願意付出的金錢是
15:33
than the people who just evaluated them externally.
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在局外評估他們的人們的五倍之多。
15:36
Now you could say, if you were a builder,
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現在你可以說，如果你是製造者，
15:39
do you think that, "Oh, I love this origami, but I know that nobody else would love it?"
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你會不會想：「哦，我好喜歡這摺紙，
但我知道除了我之外，沒有人會喜歡它」?
但我知道除了我之外，沒有人會喜歡它」?
15:46
Or do you think, "I love this origami, and everybody else will love it as well?"
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還是說，你會想：「我好喜歡這摺紙，
而且大家都一樣會喜歡」?
而且大家都一樣會喜歡」?
15:51
Which one of those two is correct?
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上述哪一個正確?
15:54
Turns out the builders not only loved the origami more,
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結果是，製造者不旦比較喜歡他們的褶紙，
15:57
they thought that everybody would see the world in their view.
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他們還認為大家都會跟他們的想法一樣。
16:00
They thought everybody else would love it more as well.
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他們以為所有人都跟他們一樣地喜歡他們的摺紙。
16:03
In the next version we tried to do the IKEA effect.
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下一個實驗，我們試著把難度提高
16:06
We tried to make it more difficult.
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看看 IKEA 效應是否是真的。
16:08
So for some people we gave the same task.
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因此，對一部分的人，我們給他們相同的任務。
16:11
For some people we made it harder by hiding the instructions.
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對另一部分的人我們提高難度，藏起摺紙說明。
16:15
At the top of the sheet, we had little diagrams of how do you fold origami.
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只在紙上簡單描述如何摺紙。
16:19
For some people we just eliminated that.
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對一些人，我們直接連這個都沒有。
16:22
So now this was tougher. What happened?
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那這樣就更困難了。結果呢?
16:25
Well in an objective way, the origami now was uglier, it was more difficult.
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客觀上，作品現在更醜了，也更難了。
16:31
Now when we looked at the easy origami,
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現在，當我們看看那些簡單的摺紙時，
16:33
we saw the same thing: Builders loved it more, evaluators loved it less.
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我們會看到相同的事：製造者會更喜歡作品，
評估者沒那麼喜歡
評估者沒那麼喜歡
16:38
When you looked at the hard instructions,
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當你看困難步驟實驗時，
16:40
the effect was larger.
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這效果就更明顯了。
16:43
Why? Because now the builders loved it even more.
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為什麼? 因為現在製造者更加喜歡成品了。
16:48
They put all this extra effort into it.
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在過程中，他們投入更多的精力。
16:50
And evaluators? They loved it even less.
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那評估者呢? 他們更不喜歡了。
16:55
Because in reality it was even uglier than the first version.
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因為事實上，它比第一版本更為醜陋了。
16:59
Of course, this tells you something about how we evaluate things.
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當然，這跟說明了我們是如何做評估的。
17:04
Now think about kids.
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現在想想看小孩子。
17:06
Imagine I asked you, "How much would you sell your kids for?"
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想像我問你：「多少錢你才願意賣掉你的孩子?」
17:11
Your memories and associations and so on.
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你的回憶和關係等等
17:13
Most people would say for a lot, a lot of money --
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大部分的人都會說，很多很多的錢 --
17:17
on good days.
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如果那天我心情好的話。
17:19
(Laughter)
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(笑聲)
17:20
But imagine this was slightly different.
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但想像稍微不一樣的狀況。
17:22
Imagine if you did not have your kids,
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想像一下如果你沒有小孩，
17:23
and one day you went to the park and you met some kids,
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然後有一天你去了公園，遇見了一些小孩子，
17:26
and they were just like your kids.
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而他們就跟你的孩子一模一樣。
17:28
And you played with them for a few hours.
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你跟他們玩了幾個小時之後。
17:29
And when you were about to leave, the parents said,
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就當你要離開的時候，他們的家長說，
17:32
"Hey, by the way, just before you leave, if you're interested, they're for sale."
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「喂，在你離開之前跟你說一聲，如果你有興趣的話，你可以購買他們。」
17:36
(Laughter)
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(笑聲)
17:38
How much would you pay for them now?
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那你現在會用多少錢來買他們呢?
17:41
Most people say not that much.
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大多數人會說，不用太多。
17:43
And this is because our kids are so valuable,
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這是因為我們的孩子比較珍貴，
17:48
not just because of who they are,
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不只是因為他們的身份，
17:50
but because of us, because they are so connected to us
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而是因為我們，因為他們跟我們之間有牽絆
17:54
and because of the time and connection.
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也因為孩子和我們所相處的時間與關係。
17:56
And by the way, if you think that IKEA instructions are not good,
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順便提一下，如果你認為 IKEA 的說明不好，
18:00
think about the instructions that come with kids.
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想一下小孩所附帶的說明。
18:02
Those are really tough.
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這才是真正的困難。
18:03
(Laughter)
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(笑聲)
18:04
By the way, these are my kids, which, of course, are wonderful and so on.
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順提一下，這些是我的孩子，當然他們很棒，你知道的。
18:08
Which comes to tell you one more thing,
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這跟說明了一件事，
18:10
which is, much like our builders,
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那就是，就像實驗中的製造者，
18:13
when they look at the creature of their creation,
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當他們看著他們創造的創造物時，
18:16
we don't see that other people don't see things our way.
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我們不會覺得其他人跟我們的看法不同。
18:21
Let me say one last comment.
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最後，
18:24
If you think about Adam Smith versus Karl Marx,
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如果你把亞當‧斯密和卡爾‧馬克思拿來做比較，
18:28
Adam Smith had the very important notion of efficiency.
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亞當‧斯密對效率有個很重要的想法。
18:32
He gave an example of a pin factory.
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他用大頭釘工廠來舉例。
18:35
He said pins have 12 different steps,
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他說製造大頭釘有 12 個步驟，
18:38
and if one person does all 12 steps, production is very low.
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如果都讓一個人做，那產量就很低。
18:42
But if you get one person to do step one
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但如果你讓一個人做第一步、
18:45
and one person to do step two and step three and so on,
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一個人做第二步，第三步，以此類推，
18:47
production can increase tremendously.
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產量就會大大增加。
18:50
And indeed, this is a great example and the reason for the Industrial Revolution and efficiency.
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也沒錯，這是一個很棒的例子，也是工業革命和效率的原因。
18:55
Karl Marx, on the other hand,
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相對而言，卡爾‧馬克思
18:57
said that the alienation of labor is incredibly important
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認為異化勞工
19:01
in how people think about the connection to what they are doing.
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對勞工本身如何看待自己的工作是很關鍵的。
19:04
And if you make all 12 steps, you care about the pin.
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如果你親自完成這 12 步驟，你會在乎這大頭釘。
19:08
But if you make one step every time, maybe you don't care as much.
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但如果你每次只做某一步驟，也許你就不會那麼在乎了。
19:11
And I think that in the Industrial Revolution,
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我覺得在工業革命中，
19:14
Adam Smith was more correct than Karl Marx,
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亞當‧斯密比卡爾‧馬克思來得正確，
19:18
but the reality is that we've switched
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但事實上，我們相反了
19:20
and now we're in the knowledge economy.
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而我們現在身在知識經濟中。
19:23
And you can ask yourself, what happens in a knowledge economy?
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你可以問問自己了，知識經濟是怎麼回事?
19:26
Is efficiency still more important than meaning?
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效率還是比意義來得重要嗎?
19:29
I think the answer is no.
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我相信答案是"不"。
19:31
I think that as we move to situations
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我認為當大環境變成人們可以自己
19:33
in which people have to decide on their own
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決定自己要放多少精力去關注、關心
19:36
about how much effort, attention, caring, how connected they feel to it,
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自己選擇與工作的關係
19:39
are they thinking about labor on the way to work and in the shower and so on,
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他們是否在上班途上、洗澡時都想著工作?
19:44
all of a sudden Marx has more things to say to us.
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突然之間，馬克思有更多的事要跟我們說了。
19:48
So when we think about labor, we usually think about motivation and payment as the same thing,
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當我們在思考勞動時，
我們時常把動機和工資混為一談，
我們時常把動機和工資混為一談，
19:53
but the reality is that we should probably add all kinds of things to it --
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但事實上，我們應該把各式各類的東西都加進去 --
19:57
meaning, creation, challenges, ownership, identity, pride, etc.
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意義、創造、挑戰、所有權、身分、榮耀等等。
20:01
And the good news is that if we added all of those components and thought about them,
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好消息是如果我們把所有元素加入考慮
20:05
how do we create our own meaning, pride, motivation,
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包括我們如何創造自己的意義、榮耀、動機，
20:09
and how do we do it in our workplace and for the employees,
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以及我們在職場上和對待員工的表現，
20:12
I think we could get people to both be more productive and happier.
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我想我們可以讓人們更有效率也更開心。
20:16
Thank you very much.
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感謝大家。
20:18
(Applause)
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(鼓掌聲)
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Dan Ariely - Behavioral economistThe dismal science of economics is not as firmly grounded in actual behavior as was once supposed. In "Predictably Irrational," Dan Ariely told us why.
Why you should listen
Dan Ariely is a professor of psychology and behavioral economics at Duke University and a founding member of the Center for Advanced Hindsight. He is the author of the bestsellers Predictably Irrational, The Upside of Irrationality, and The Honest Truth About Dishonesty -- as well as the TED Book Payoff: The Hidden Logic that Shapes Our Motivations.
Through his research and his (often amusing and unorthodox) experiments, he questions the forces that influence human behavior and the irrational ways in which we often all behave.
Dan Ariely | Speaker | TED.com