TED2013
Jared Diamond: How societies can grow old better
賈德·戴蒙: 當社會結構老化的同時，要如何變得更好?
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Readability: 5.2
1,100,581 views
我們致力於延長人類壽命的背後，有件很諷刺的事：老年人要生活在以年輕人為導向社會，不是一件輕鬆的事。老年人會變得很孤單、缺乏重要工作、知識累積不足。此次發人深省的演講中，賈德·戴蒙帶您一同來看，在許多不同社會中對待老年人的方式，有些方式很好，有些方式則是很差，期許我們都能從經驗中獲得啟發。
Jared Diamond - Civilization scholar
Jared Diamond investigates why cultures prosper or decline -- and what we can learn by taking a broad look across many kinds of societies. Full bio
Jared Diamond investigates why cultures prosper or decline -- and what we can learn by taking a broad look across many kinds of societies. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:12
To give me an idea of how many of you here
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請大家表示意見 現場有多少人
00:14
may find what I'm about to tell you
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可能發現我要演講的主題
00:17
of practical value,
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就是「實用價值」
00:18
let me ask you please to raise your hands:
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我想請問各位一個問題
有符合描述的人請舉手
有符合描述的人請舉手
00:21
Who here is either over 65 years old
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在場有誰超過65歲
00:24
or hopes to live past age 65
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誰希望活超過65歲
00:28
or has parents or grandparents who did live
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有父母或祖父母生前
00:31
or have lived past 65,
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或現在超過65歲的人
00:33
raise your hands please. (Laughter)
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請舉手(笑聲)
00:36
Okay. You are the people to whom my talk
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好 你們就是那些
00:38
will be of practical value. (Laughter)
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會覺得我的演講很實用的人(笑聲)
00:40
The rest of you
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其餘的人
00:42
won't find my talk personally relevant,
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可能會覺得我的演講與自己沒有關係
00:44
but I think that you will still find the subject
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但是我認為你們
還是會覺得這次主題
還是會覺得這次主題
00:46
fascinating.
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很吸引人
00:47
I'm going to talk about growing older
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我今天的演講主題是
00:49
in traditional societies.
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在傳統社會裡年紀增長的議題
00:51
This subject constitutes just one chapter
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這個主題只是我新書當中的其中一個章節
00:54
of my latest book, which compares
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我的新書是將
00:57
traditional, small, tribal societies
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傳統社會、小型社會、部落社會
01:00
with our large, modern societies,
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與我們大型的現代社會比較
01:02
with respect to many topics
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還有許多主題
01:04
such as bringing up children,
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像是撫養小孩
01:06
growing older, health, dealing with danger,
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人口高齡化、健康問題、危機處理
01:10
settling disputes, religion
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解決紛爭、宗教議題
01:12
and speaking more than one language.
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還有語言多樣性等主題
01:15
Those tribal societies, which constituted
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在人類歷史上可以常看到這種部落社會
01:18
all human societies for most of human history,
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在人類歷史上可以常看到這種部落社會
01:21
are far more diverse than are our modern,
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這種社會比我們近期的大型現代社會
01:24
recent, big societies.
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更加多元化
01:26
All big societies that have governments,
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所有大型社會都有政府組織
01:28
and where most people are strangers to each other,
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在這種社會裡
多數民眾對彼此都很生疏
多數民眾對彼此都很生疏
01:31
are inevitably similar to each other
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每種大型社會都很類似
01:33
and different from tribal societies.
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但是又與部落社會不同
01:36
Tribes constitute thousands of natural experiments
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部落社會是經由大自然千錘百鍊的試驗
01:39
in how to run a human society.
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得出人類社會最佳的運作方式
01:42
They constitute experiments from which we ourselves
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他們所建構出的這些實驗
01:45
may be able to learn.
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也許我們能從這些實驗學到一些東西
01:47
Tribal societies shouldn't be scorned
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我們不應該嘲笑部落社會
01:49
as primitive and miserable,
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是一種很落後、原始的社會
01:51
but also they shouldn't be romanticized
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但也不能將其美化成
01:53
as happy and peaceful.
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是一個快樂安寧的社會
01:55
When we learn of tribal practices,
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我們聽說某些部落習俗的時候
01:58
some of them will horrify us,
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有些習俗可能會嚇到我們
01:59
but there are other tribal practices which,
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但是其他的部落習俗
02:02
when we hear about them,
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我們聽到的時候
02:03
we may admire and envy
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我們可能會很羨慕
02:05
and wonder whether we could adopt those practices
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然後遲疑我們自己
02:07
ourselves.
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是否也能採納那些方法
02:10
Most old people in the U.S. end up living
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在美國多數的老人在臨走前
02:13
separately from their children
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都沒有和他們的小孩住在一起
02:15
and from most of their friends
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沒有與多數早年的朋友
02:17
of their earlier years,
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保持聯繫
02:18
and often they live in separate
retirements homes for the elderly,
retirements homes for the elderly,
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通常他們都住在養老院
02:22
whereas in traditional societies,
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養老院是屬於傳統社會
02:24
older people instead live out their lives
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年紀較長的長輩反而是
02:27
among their children, their other relatives,
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與他們的小孩住在一起
和其他親戚常有交流
和其他親戚常有交流
02:29
and their lifelong friends.
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常終身好友互動往來
02:32
Nevertheless, the treatment of the elderly
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不過對待老年人的方式
02:34
varies enormously among traditional societies,
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在各種傳統社會型態上
有著很大的差異
有著很大的差異
02:37
from much worse to much better
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相較於我們現代社會
對待老年人的情況
對待老年人的情況
02:39
than in our modern societies.
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狀況是從「極差」到「極佳」都有
02:42
At the worst extreme, many traditional societies
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最糟糕的情況就是
許多傳統社會
許多傳統社會
02:45
get rid of their elderly
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棄養老年人逐年增長的
02:47
in one of four increasingly direct ways:
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四大直接了當的方式包括:
02:50
by neglecting their elderly
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對老年人漠不關心
02:52
and not feeding or cleaning them until they die,
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不餵他們吃飯
到他們死前也不幫他們洗澡
到他們死前也不幫他們洗澡
02:56
or by abandoning them when the group moves,
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拋棄他們
02:59
or by encouraging older people to commit suicide,
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勸老年人自己了結生命
03:02
or by killing older people.
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殺害老年人
03:05
In which tribal societies do children
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部落社會裡的小孩
03:07
abandon or kill their parents?
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真的會棄養或殺害他們的雙親嗎?
03:10
It happens mainly under two conditions.
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會發生此等情事
主要有兩種情況
主要有兩種情況
03:13
One is in nomadic, hunter-gather societies
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其中一個就是游牧的狩獵採集社會
03:16
that often shift camp
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這種社會常常遷徙
03:18
and that are physically incapable
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實際上沒有餘力
03:20
of transporting old people who can't walk
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帶上不便行走的老年人
03:23
when the able-bodied younger people already
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當身強體健的年輕人準備
03:25
have to carry their young children
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要帶上他們的小孩
03:27
and all their physical possessions.
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和他們所有財產移動的時候
03:30
The other condition is in societies
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另外一種情況就是
03:32
living in marginal or fluctuating environments,
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生活在邊緣的社會
或經常變動的環境之下
或經常變動的環境之下
03:36
such as the Arctic or deserts,
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像是北極地區、沙漠地帶
03:38
where there are periodic food shortages,
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都常出現週期性食物短缺的狀態
03:41
and occasionally there just isn't enough food
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偶爾也會發生糧食不足的情況
03:43
to keep everyone alive.
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無法養活每一個人
03:45
Whatever food is available has to be reserved
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不管食物是否足夠都必須
03:47
for able-bodied adults and for children.
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留給健康的成年人和小孩食用
03:52
To us Americans, it sounds horrible
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對我們美國人來說
03:55
to think of abandoning or killing
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要棄養或殺害
03:57
your own sick wife or husband
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自己患有重病的老婆、丈夫
03:59
or elderly mother or father,
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或年邁的父母
這種事情聽起來很恐怖
這種事情聽起來很恐怖
04:01
but what could those traditional societies
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但是那些傳統社會
04:05
do differently?
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能有什麼不一樣的做法嗎?
04:07
They face a cruel situation of no choice.
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他們面臨一種很殘酷的情況
毫無選擇餘地
毫無選擇餘地
04:10
Their old people had to do it to their own parents,
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他們的老年人也得
以同樣的方式對待他們自己的父母
以同樣的方式對待他們自己的父母
04:13
and the old people know
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老年人知道
04:15
what now is going to happen to them.
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接下來會降臨在他們身上的事情
04:18
At the opposite extreme
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另外一種對待老年人的作法上
04:20
in treatment of the elderly, the happy extreme,
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是一個極端狀態就是「非常好」
04:22
are the New Guinea farming societies
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新幾內亞的農業社會對老年人非常好
04:24
where I've been doing my fieldwork
for the past 50 years,
for the past 50 years,
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我在當地研究超過50年
04:27
and most other sedentary traditional societies
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也研究大多數
04:31
around the world.
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世界上固有的傳統社會
04:33
In those societies, older people are cared for.
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在那些社會中
老年人都有得到妥善照顧
老年人都有得到妥善照顧
04:36
They are fed. They remain valuable.
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都有人會餵飯給他們吃
他們還是有生存的價值
他們還是有生存的價值
04:38
And they continue to live in the same hut
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也都還是住在同一間房子
04:40
or else in a nearby hut near their children,
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或是住在小孩
04:43
relatives and lifelong friends.
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親戚或終身好友的附近
04:47
There are two main sets of reasons for this variation
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這種變化有兩組主要原因
04:49
among societies in their treatment
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在各社會型態
04:52
of old people.
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對其他老年人的方式
04:53
The variation depends especially
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這種變化特別是取決於
04:55
on the usefulness of old people
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老年人是否還有利用價值
04:57
and on the society's values.
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還有該社會的價值
05:00
First, as regards usefulness,
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首先 關於利用價值
05:02
older people continue to perform useful services.
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老年人持續做出有用的貢獻
05:05
One use of older people in traditional societies
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傳統社會中
老年人的其中一個作用
老年人的其中一個作用
05:08
is that they often are still effective
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就是通常他們仍然
05:10
at producing food.
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對生產食物有一定的影響力
05:12
Another traditional usefulness of older people
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另一個老年人傳統上的利用價值
05:15
is that they are capable of babysitting
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就是他們能夠
05:18
their grandchildren,
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照顧他們的孫子女
05:20
thereby freeing up their own adult children,
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讓他們長大成人的兒女
05:23
the parents of those grandchildren,
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也就是他們孫子女的父母
05:24
to go hunting and gathering
food for the grandchildren.
food for the grandchildren.
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能放心去打獵
或採集食物給小孩吃
或採集食物給小孩吃
05:28
Still another traditional value of older people
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老年人還有另一個傳統價值
05:30
is in making tools, weapons, baskets,
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就是製造工具、武器、竹籃
05:33
pots and textiles.
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鍋、壺、紡織品等
05:35
In fact, they're usually the people who are best at it.
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實際上他們通常都是
最會做這些東西的人
最會做這些東西的人
05:38
Older people usually are the leaders
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老年人通常都扮演著
05:41
of traditional societies,
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傳統社會的領導者
05:43
and the people most knowledgeable about politics,
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他們也對政治、醫學、宗教、歌謠與舞蹈
05:46
medicine, religion, songs and dances.
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非常博學多聞
05:50
Finally, older people in traditional societies
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最後 傳統社會的老年人
05:53
have a huge significance that would never occur
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具有一種重要性
05:56
to us in our modern, literate societies,
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那種重要性在現代文明社會
我們絕對想像不到
我們絕對想像不到
06:00
where our sources of information are books
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在文明社會裡
我們資訊的來源都是依靠書籍
我們資訊的來源都是依靠書籍
06:03
and the Internet.
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與網際網路
06:04
In contrast, in traditional societies without writing,
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相較之下
在沒有以文字傳遞訊息的傳統社會裡
在沒有以文字傳遞訊息的傳統社會裡
06:08
older people are the repositories of information.
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老年人就是一座資訊寶庫
06:11
It's their knowledge that spells the difference
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靠著他們的知識拼湊出
06:14
between survival and death for their whole society
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整個社會對於生死之間觀念的差異
06:18
in a time of crisis caused by rare events
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在一段時間由少數事件所導致的危機
06:21
for which only the oldest people alive
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只有現在活著的老年人
06:23
have had experience.
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已經經歷過的
06:26
Those, then, are the ways in which older people
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那些生活方式都使
06:28
are useful in traditional societies.
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傳統社會的年長者存有利用價值
06:31
Their usefulness varies and contributes
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他們還能做很多事
06:34
to variation in the society's treatment
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也能改善社會
06:36
of the elderly.
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對待老年人的方式
06:38
The other set of reasons for variation
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另一項會造成對待老年人的方式
06:40
in the treatment of the elderly is
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有所差異的原因就是
06:42
the society's cultural values.
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該社會的文化價值
06:45
For example, there's particular emphasis
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例如 有個特別的重點
06:47
on respect for the elderly in East Asia,
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在東亞的老年人的觀念裡
06:50
associated with Confucius' doctrine
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與儒家思想中的
06:53
of filial piety, which means obedience,
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孝道有關
盡孝道的意思是指要服從尊長
盡孝道的意思是指要服從尊長
06:57
respect and support for elderly parents.
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尊敬長者 扶持長輩
07:01
Cultural values that emphasize
respect for older people
respect for older people
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強調尊重長輩的文化價值
07:05
contrast with the low status of the elderly
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與不太重視老年人的美國文化
07:08
in the U.S.
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形成對比
07:10
Older Americans are at a big disadvantage
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美國的老年人有著很大的劣勢
07:12
in job applications.
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在應徵工作的時候
07:14
They're at a big disadvantage in hospitals.
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醫院也對他們不太友善
07:17
Our hospitals have an explicit policy
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我們的醫院有一項明確的政策
07:20
called age-based allocation of healthcare resources.
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叫做「依照年齡分配醫療資源方案」
07:25
That sinister expression means that
167
433032
2773
講不好聽一點就是
07:27
if hospital resources are limited,
168
435805
2206
如果醫療資源有限
07:30
for example if only one donor heart
169
438011
2050
例如 如果只有一顆捐贈的心臟
07:32
becomes available for transplant,
170
440061
2298
能夠進行移植
07:34
or if a surgeon has time to operate
171
442359
2102
或者如果一位外科醫生
在僅限的時間之內
在僅限的時間之內
07:36
on only a certain number of patients,
172
444461
2511
只能為一定數量的病人動手術
07:38
American hospitals have an explicit policy
173
446972
2950
美國的醫院有一項明確的政策
07:41
of giving preference to younger patients
174
449922
2320
讓較年輕的病患先進行手術
07:44
over older patients
175
452242
1480
較年長的病患則慢一點
07:45
on the grounds that younger patients are considered
176
453722
3244
因為他們認為年輕的病患
07:48
more valuable to society
177
456966
1817
對社會來說比較有價值
07:50
because they have more years of life ahead of them,
178
458783
2645
因為他們還能活的時間比較長
07:53
even though the younger patients have fewer years
179
461428
2660
雖然年輕病患有的
07:56
of valuable life experience behind them.
180
464088
3982
寶貴的生活經驗不及老年人
08:00
There are several reasons for this low status
181
468070
2228
造成美國人不太尊重老年人的情況
08:02
of the elderly in the U.S.
182
470298
2342
有幾個原因
08:04
One is our Protestant work ethic
183
472640
3185
其中一個原因就是我們的「新教倫理」
08:07
which places high value on work,
184
475825
2313
「新教倫理」非常重視工作
08:10
so older people who are no longer working
185
478138
2223
所以無法工作老年人
08:12
aren't respected.
186
480361
1983
就得不到別人的尊敬
08:14
Another reason is our American emphasis
187
482344
2857
另一個原因就是我們美國人強調
08:17
on the virtues of self-reliance and independence,
188
485201
3383
要有自力更生、獨立自主的美德
08:20
so we instinctively look down on older people
189
488584
3069
所以我們就會以直覺來看待老年人
08:23
who are no longer self-reliant and independent.
190
491653
3597
而老年人通常都需要別人來照顧
08:27
Still a third reason is our American cult of youth,
191
495250
4101
第三個原因就是
我們美國人崇拜「青春能量」
我們美國人崇拜「青春能量」
08:31
which shows up even in our advertisements.
192
499351
2808
這種情況就連在我們的
電視廣告裡都可以看見
電視廣告裡都可以看見
08:34
Ads for Coca-Cola and beer always depict
193
502159
3264
可口可樂和啤酒的廣告都可以看到
08:37
smiling young people,
194
505423
1555
有年輕人開懷大笑
08:38
even though old as well as young people
195
506978
1970
即使不論老少
08:40
buy and drink Coca-Cola and beer.
196
508948
2322
都會買可口可樂和啤酒來喝
08:43
Just think, what's the last time you saw
197
511270
2003
試想一下 上次你看到
08:45
a Coke or beer ad depicting smiling people
198
513273
2677
可口可樂或是啤酒的廣告
08:47
85 years old? Never.
199
515950
2949
當中有一位85歲的老人在對你微笑
絕對沒有
絕對沒有
08:50
Instead, the only American ads
200
518899
1806
反而只有美國的廣告
08:52
featuring white-haired old people
201
520705
2006
當中出現白髮蒼蒼的老人
08:54
are ads for retirement homes and pension planning.
202
522711
3865
這些都是老人院和退休金規畫的廣告
08:58
Well, what has changed in the status
203
526576
2050
是什麼力量改變
09:00
of the elderly today
204
528626
1983
今天老年人的狀態
09:02
compared to their status in traditional societies?
205
530609
3389
相較於他們在傳統社會的狀態?
09:05
There have been a few changes for the better
206
533998
1870
有少數部份變得比較好
09:07
and more changes for the worse.
207
535868
2205
但多數部份變的更差了
09:10
Big changes for the better
208
538073
1601
大幅度的改變帶來更好的生活
09:11
include the fact that today we enjoy
209
539674
2151
包括今天我們能享有
09:13
much longer lives,
210
541825
1984
更長的壽命
09:15
much better health in our old age,
211
543809
2294
我們老的時候比前人更健康
09:18
and much better recreational opportunities.
212
546103
3638
有更好休養生息的機會
09:21
Another change for the better is that we now have
213
549741
2270
另一項好的改變就是
我們現在有
我們現在有
09:24
specialized retirement facilities
214
552011
2840
專門設置的養老設施
09:26
and programs to take care of old people.
215
554851
3351
與照料計畫去照顧老年人
09:30
Changes for the worse begin with the cruel reality
216
558202
2868
不好的改變就是來自於殘酷的現實
09:33
that we now have
217
561070
1689
我們現在的
09:34
more old people and fewer young people
218
562759
2574
老年人更多
但年輕人更少
但年輕人更少
09:37
than at any time in the past.
219
565333
2684
情況比從前任何時候都還嚴重
09:40
That means that all those old people
220
568017
1751
那就表示因為老年人口較多
09:41
are more of a burden on the few young people,
221
569768
2425
而年輕人口較少
使得年輕人的負擔更重了
使得年輕人的負擔更重了
09:44
and that each old person has less individual value.
222
572193
4486
也表示每位老年人的個人價值下降了
09:48
Another big change for the worse
in the status of the elderly
in the status of the elderly
223
576679
3184
對於老年人的狀態方面
另一項不好的大改變
另一項不好的大改變
09:51
is the breaking of social ties with age,
224
579863
2677
就是隨年齡增長而疏離社會聯繫
09:54
because older people, their children,
225
582540
1844
因為年長者、他們的小孩
09:56
and their friends,
226
584384
1316
他們的朋友
09:57
all move and scatter independently of each other
227
585700
2850
每個人都是獨自行動、散居各地
10:00
many times during their lives.
228
588550
2254
在他們的一生中
10:02
We Americans move on the average
229
590804
1813
平均每五年
10:04
every five years.
230
592617
1953
我們美國人就會搬一次家
10:06
Hence our older people are likely
231
594570
2031
因此我們的長者可能
10:08
to end up living distant from their children
232
596601
2307
到死都沒有和他們的小孩
10:10
and the friends of their youth.
233
598908
2803
朋友在一起生活
10:13
Yet another change for the worse
in the status of the elderly
in the status of the elderly
234
601711
3162
對於老年人的狀態方面
另一項不好的大改變
另一項不好的大改變
10:16
is formal retirement from the workforce,
235
604873
3730
就是正式從職場退休
10:20
carrying with it a loss of work friendships
236
608603
2750
同時表示會失去同事情誼
10:23
and a loss of the self-esteem associated with work.
237
611353
4140
也會失去在工作方面的自我抱負
10:27
Perhaps the biggest change for the worse
238
615493
2485
也許最大最糟糕的改變
10:29
is that our elderly are objectively
239
617978
2873
就是現代我們老年人客觀上
10:32
less useful than in traditional societies.
240
620851
3162
比傳統社會的老年人更沒有幫助
10:36
Widespread literacy means that they are no longer
241
624013
2963
普遍能力顯示他們不再
10:38
useful as repositories of knowledge.
242
626976
2631
像是座知識寶庫般有用
10:41
When we want some information,
243
629607
1943
我們想要找某種資訊的時候
10:43
we look it up in a book or we Google it
244
631550
2261
我們會從書裡面尋找
或上Google查詢
或上Google查詢
10:45
instead of finding some old person to ask.
245
633811
3470
而不是去問一些老年人
10:49
The slow pace of technological change
246
637281
2087
在傳統社會
科技進步的步伐很慢
科技進步的步伐很慢
10:51
in traditional societies
247
639368
1822
在傳統社會
科技進步的步伐很慢
科技進步的步伐很慢
10:53
means that what someone learns there as a child
248
641190
2850
表示傳統社會裡小時候所學的東西
10:56
is still useful when that person is old,
249
644040
2659
到老都還是有用的
10:58
but the rapid pace of technological change today
250
646699
3603
但是現今科技快速進步
11:02
means that what we learn as children
251
650302
2067
也就表示我們小時候所學的東西
11:04
is no longer useful 60 years later.
252
652369
2890
六十年過後
已經不堪使用
已經不堪使用
11:07
And conversely, we older people are not fluent
253
655259
2379
相反地我們老年人無法
11:09
in the technologies essential for surviving
254
657638
3034
以科技技術當作生存技能
11:12
in modern society.
255
660672
1971
在現代社會謀生
11:14
For example, as a 15-year-old,
256
662643
2173
例如 我在十五歲的時候
11:16
I was considered outstandingly
good at multiplying numbers
good at multiplying numbers
257
664816
3590
大家都覺得我在多重完全數方面
運算很厲害
運算很厲害
11:20
because I had memorized the multiplication tables
258
668406
3195
因為我有背乘法表
11:23
and I know how to use logarithms
259
671601
2145
而且我知道對數函數的使用方法
11:25
and I'm quick at manipulating a slide rule.
260
673746
2863
用計算尺我可以很快
11:28
Today, though, those skills are utterly useless
261
676609
3086
時至今日 這些技能完全都沒用了
11:31
because any idiot
262
679695
2371
因為任何一個白痴
11:34
can now multiply eight-digit numbers
263
682066
2358
靠著口袋型計算機
現在都可以乘上八位數
現在都可以乘上八位數
11:36
accurately and instantly with a pocket calculator.
264
684424
3187
絕對準確無誤
而且馬上就能知道答案
而且馬上就能知道答案
11:39
Conversely, I at age 75
265
687611
2170
相反地 我現在七十五歲
11:41
am incompetent at skills
266
689781
2664
就連在基本的每日生活技能方面
11:44
essential for everyday life.
267
692445
2454
都無法與他人競爭
11:46
My family's first TV set in 1948
268
694899
2784
1948年 我家第一次裝了電視
11:49
had only three knobs that I quickly mastered:
269
697683
3053
只有三個旋鈕 我很快就搞懂了
11:52
an on-off switch, a volume knob,
270
700736
2750
一個開/關機鈕、一個音量控制鈕
11:55
and a channel selector knob.
271
703486
2221
一個頻道選擇鈕
11:57
Today, just to watch a program
272
705707
2088
今天 只是要看一個電視節目
11:59
on the TV set in my own house,
273
707795
2456
用我自己家裡的電視機收看
12:02
I have to operate a 41-button TV remote
274
710251
3717
我就一定要用一台有41個按鍵的電視遙控器
12:05
that utterly defeats me.
275
713968
1982
真的是考倒我了
12:07
I have to telephone my 25-year-old sons
276
715950
3014
我還要打電話給我25歲的兒子
12:10
and ask them to talk me through it
277
718964
2197
透過電話問他們操作方法
12:13
while I try to push those wretched 41 buttons.
278
721161
4997
當我在試按那41個討厭的按鍵的時候
12:18
What can we do to improve the lives of the elderly
279
726158
2647
我們能做的就是改善美國老年人的生活
12:20
in the U.S., and to make better use of their value?
280
728805
3454
善加利用他們的價值
12:24
That's a huge problem.
281
732259
1774
那真是個大問題
12:26
In my remaining four minutes today,
282
734033
2471
在我今天演講剩下的四分鐘內
12:28
I can offer just a few suggestions.
283
736504
2577
我會提出一些建議
12:31
One value of older people is that they are
284
739081
1922
第一項老年人的價值就是
12:33
increasingly useful as grandparents
285
741003
3444
他們能逐漸展現自己的價值
12:36
for offering high-quality childcare
286
744447
2507
當祖父母能為自己子女
提供優質的育兒照顧的時候
提供優質的育兒照顧的時候
12:38
to their grandchildren, if they choose to do it,
287
746954
2653
讓他們能夠含飴弄孫
如果他們真的想幫忙照顧的話
如果他們真的想幫忙照顧的話
12:41
as more young women enter the workforce
288
749607
2849
當更多年輕女性進入工作職場
12:44
and as fewer young parents of either gender
289
752456
2334
當越來越少的年輕父母
不論是爸爸或媽媽
不論是爸爸或媽媽
12:46
stay home as full-time caretakers of their children.
290
754790
3660
能在家全天候照顧他們的小孩
12:50
Compared to the usual alternatives
291
758450
2036
相較於常見的替代方案
12:52
of paid babysitters and day care centers,
292
760486
3598
就是花錢請保母
或將小孩送到托兒所
或將小孩送到托兒所
12:56
grandparents offer superior, motivated,
293
764084
3127
祖父母則能以優質環境 積極的態度
12:59
experienced child care.
294
767211
2688
以及豐富的經驗來照顧小孩
13:01
They've already gained experience
from raising their own children.
from raising their own children.
295
769899
3266
從養育自己的小孩
他們就已經有過經驗
他們就已經有過經驗
13:05
They usually love their grandchildren,
296
773165
2344
祖父母通常都很喜歡他們的孫子女
13:07
and are eager to spend time with them.
297
775509
2665
也很希望能夠花時間陪他們
13:10
Unlike other caregivers,
298
778174
1901
不像其他居家照顧服務員
13:12
grandparents don't quit their job
299
780075
2897
祖父母不會辭職
13:14
because they found another job with higher pay
300
782972
2436
只因為找到另一份更高薪的
13:17
looking after another baby.
301
785408
3513
看護工作
13:20
A second value of older people is paradoxically
302
788921
2404
這麼說有點自相矛盾
第二項老年人的價值是
第二項老年人的價值是
13:23
related to their loss of value
303
791325
2661
與他們失去的自我價值有關
13:25
as a result of changing world
conditions and technology.
conditions and technology.
304
793986
4073
由於世界情勢改變和科技日新月異
13:30
At the same time, older people have gained
305
798059
2036
同時 更準確來說
今天的老年人
今天的老年人
13:32
in value today precisely because
306
800095
2311
越來越有價值
13:34
of their unique experience of living conditions
307
802406
3109
因為他們體會過的特殊生活情況
13:37
that have now become rare
308
805515
1719
對於現在來說是很罕見的
13:39
because of rapid change, but that could come back.
309
807234
3310
因為社會快速變遷
但是這種情況還是有可能再次發生
但是這種情況還是有可能再次發生
13:42
For example, only Americans now in their 70s
310
810544
2954
例如 現在只有70歲
13:45
or older today can remember
311
813498
2260
或70歲以上的老年人會記得
13:47
the experience of living through a great depression,
312
815758
3328
經濟大蕭條時期的生活經驗
13:51
the experience of living through a world war,
313
819086
2638
世界大戰時期的生活經驗
13:53
and agonizing whether or not
314
821724
2546
那個時代的人們
都生活在痛苦與掙扎之中
都生活在痛苦與掙扎之中
13:56
dropping atomic bombs would be more horrible
315
824270
3037
不管投下原子彈會不會
13:59
than the likely consequences
of not dropping atomic bombs.
of not dropping atomic bombs.
316
827307
4113
比沒有投下原子彈所造成的後果更恐怖
14:03
Most of our current voters and politicians
317
831420
2276
現今我們多數的選民與政治人物
14:05
have no personal experience of any of those things,
318
833696
2732
都沒有上述的那種個人生活經驗
14:08
but millions of older Americans do.
319
836428
2695
但是數百萬計的美國老年人卻有這種經驗
14:11
Unfortunately, all of those terrible situations
320
839123
2651
不幸的是 所有糟糕的生活清況
14:13
could come back.
321
841774
1387
都有可能捲土重來
14:15
Even if they don't come back,
322
843161
1306
即使不會再發生
14:16
we have to be able to plan for them
323
844467
2192
我們必須也要有能力為這些情況作準備
14:18
on the basis of the experience of what they were like.
324
846659
2811
透過長輩過去的生活經驗來當參考
14:21
Older people have that experience.
325
849470
1834
老年人有那種經驗
14:23
Younger people don't.
326
851304
2053
年輕人卻沒有
14:25
The remaining value of older people
327
853357
1520
老年人其餘的價值
14:26
that I'll mention involves recognizing that
328
854877
2443
我會提到像是
我們都知道
我們都知道
14:29
while there are many things that older people
329
857320
2580
有許多事情老年人
14:31
can no longer do,
330
859900
1606
都做不到
14:33
there are other things that they can do
331
861506
1489
而在那些之外的事情上
他們做得
他們做得
14:34
better than younger people.
332
862995
2095
比年輕人更好
14:37
A challenge for society is
to make use of those things
to make use of those things
333
865090
2896
我們的社會就是該嘗試利用
14:39
that older people are better at doing.
334
867986
2472
老年人擅長做的事情
14:42
Some abilities, of course, decrease with age.
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3249
當然 有些能力會隨年紀遞減
14:45
Those include abilities at tasks
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2638
當中包括各種工作技能
14:48
requiring physical strength and stamina,
337
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3571
像是需要體力、耐力
14:51
ambition, and the power of novel reasoning
338
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3124
抱負與新穎的推論能力
14:55
in a circumscribed situation,
339
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2425
在受到限制的情況之下
14:57
such as figuring out the structure of DNA,
340
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2588
像是計算出DNA的結構
15:00
best left to scientists under the age of 30.
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3901
這種工作最好還是留給30歲以下的科學家
15:03
Conversely, valuable attributes
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1649
相反地 有些很重要、珍貴的特性
15:05
that increase with age include experience,
343
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3546
只會隨著年紀增長而出現
就像是經驗
就像是經驗
15:09
understanding of people and human relationships,
344
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3013
看人的眼光、人際關係
15:12
ability to help other people
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幫助其他人的能力
15:14
without your own ego getting in the way,
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2428
不會受到自尊心的攪亂
15:16
and interdisciplinary thinking about large databases,
347
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3525
與跨領域的大範圍思考模式
15:20
such as economics and comparative history,
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2825
像是經濟學與比較歷史學
15:23
best left to scholars over the age of 60.
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3214
最好還是留給60歲以上的學者
15:26
Hence older people are
much better than younger people
much better than younger people
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2472
因此老年人比年輕成更擅長於
15:28
at supervising, administering, advising,
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3971
監督、管理、勸告
15:32
strategizing, teaching, synthesizing,
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3482
謀略、教導、綜合事項
15:36
and devising long-term plans.
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2706
策劃長期計畫
15:39
I've seen this value of older people
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2020
我見識過這種老年人的價值
15:41
with so many of my friends in their 60s,
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2572
在我許多60歲
15:43
70s, 80s and 90s,
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931668
1990
70、80、90歲左右的朋友身上
15:45
who are still active as investment managers,
357
933658
3285
他們現在都還很活躍
有的是當投資經理人
有的是當投資經理人
15:48
farmers, lawyers and doctors.
358
936943
3013
也有農夫、律師和醫生
15:51
In short, many traditional societies
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2130
簡言之 許多傳統社會
15:54
make better use of their elderly
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2113
能夠有效利用老年人
15:56
and give their elderly more satisfying lives
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3110
給予老年人更滿意的生活環境
15:59
than we do in modern, big societies.
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2850
比我們現代的大社會環境還要好
16:02
Paradoxically nowadays,
363
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1865
矛盾的是
16:04
when we have more elderly people than ever before,
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2926
我們現在的老年人口比以前更多
16:06
living healthier lives and with better medical care
365
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2721
生活環境與條件比從前更好
16:09
than ever before,
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1486
也有更好的醫療照護
16:11
old age is in some respects more miserable
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2707
但是現在老年人
16:13
than ever before.
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1767
比以前更不受到尊重
16:15
The lives of the elderly are widely recognized
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2422
大家普遍認為老年人的生活
16:18
as constituting a disaster area
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2767
就像在現代美國社會的
16:20
of modern American society.
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2533
災區裡面
16:23
We can surely do better by learning
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1681
我們該學學
16:25
from the lives of the elderly
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1875
老年人在傳統社會裡扮演的角色
16:26
in traditional societies.
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974909
2012
一定能從中獲益
16:28
But what's true of the lives of the elderly
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1942
但是適用於傳統社會老年人的生活型態
16:30
in traditional societies
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1464
但是適用於傳統社會老年人的生活型態
16:32
is true of many other features
377
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1695
也適用於其他各式傳統社會
16:34
of traditional societies as well.
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2594
也適用於其他各式傳統社會
16:36
Of course, I'm not advocating that we all give up
379
984616
2589
當然 我並不主張說
我們全然放棄
我們全然放棄
16:39
agriculture and metal tools
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2115
拿著金屬器具下田耕作
16:41
and return to a hunter-gatherer lifestyle.
381
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3084
回歸狩獵、採集的生活型態
16:44
There are many obvious respects
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1544
現在有許多明顯的觀點
16:45
in which our lives today are far happier
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2479
就是我們現在的生活遠比
16:48
than those in small, traditional societies.
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3062
小型的傳統社會還要快樂
16:51
To mention just a few examples,
385
999489
1706
就提幾個例子
16:53
our lives are longer, materially much richer,
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1001195
2970
我們的壽命越來越長
物質方面也比較富裕
物質方面也比較富裕
16:56
and less plagued by violence
387
1004165
2283
也較少有暴力事件的發生
16:58
than are the lives of people in traditional societies.
388
1006448
3228
比那些生活在傳統社會的人還好
17:01
But there are also things to be admired
389
1009676
2528
但是生活在傳統社會的人們
17:04
about people in traditional societies,
390
1012204
2142
也有一些令人稱羨的事
17:06
and perhaps to be learned from them.
391
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2319
也許我們也能從中學習
17:08
Their lives are usually socially much richer
392
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2591
他們的社交生活通常比
17:11
than our lives,
393
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1592
我們的還要好
17:12
although materially poorer.
394
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2292
雖然他們的物質生活比較不好
17:15
Their children are more self-confident,
395
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2952
傳統社會的小孩通常比較有自信
17:18
more independent, and more socially skilled
396
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2594
更獨立自主
更具社交技巧
更具社交技巧
17:20
than are our children.
397
1028686
2336
比我們現代的小孩來說
17:23
They think more realistically
about dangers than we do.
about dangers than we do.
398
1031022
3743
對於危險事物
他們的想法比我們更實際
他們的想法比我們更實際
17:26
They almost never die of diabetes, heart disease,
399
1034765
3529
他們幾乎沒有因罹患糖尿病、心臟病
17:30
stroke, and the other noncommunicable diseases
400
1038294
3234
中風或是其他非傳染性疾病而死
17:33
that will be the causes of death of almost
401
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2512
今天幾乎我們所有人
17:36
all of us in this room today.
402
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3086
都會因罹患非傳染性疾病而死亡
17:39
Features of the modern lifestyle
predispose us to those diseases,
predispose us to those diseases,
403
1047126
4010
現代生活型態的特性就是
我們很容易感染這些疾病
我們很容易感染這些疾病
17:43
and features of the traditional lifestyle
404
1051136
2234
但傳統生活型態的特性
17:45
protect us against them.
405
1053370
2507
卻可以保護我們免受這些疾病的侵害
17:47
Those are just some examples of what we can learn
406
1055877
2159
這幾項例子都是
17:50
from traditional societies.
407
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2288
我們能從傳統社會上學到的東西
17:52
I hope that you will find it as fascinating
408
1060324
1887
祝您讀到本書中的傳統社會時
17:54
to read about traditional societies
409
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2409
展閱愉快 身心獲益
17:56
as I found it to live in those societies.
410
1064620
2703
就像我對住在傳統社會的老人一樣
感到驚奇無比
感到驚奇無比
17:59
Thank you.
411
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2180
謝謝你
18:01
(Applause)
412
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4447
(掌聲)
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Jared Diamond - Civilization scholarJared Diamond investigates why cultures prosper or decline -- and what we can learn by taking a broad look across many kinds of societies.
Why you should listen
In his books Guns, Germs and Steel and Collapse (and the popular PBS and National Geographic documentaries they inspired), big-picture scholar Jared Diamond explores civilizations and why they all seem to fall. Now in his latest book, The World Until Yesterday, Diamond examines small, traditional, tribal societies -- and suggests that modern civilization is only our latest solution to survival.
Diamond’s background in evolutionary biology, geography and physiology informs his integrated vision of human history. He posits that success -- and failure -- depends on how well societies adapt to their changing environment.
Jared Diamond | Speaker | TED.com