TEDWomen 2015
Aspen Baker: A better way to talk about abortion
Filmed:
Readability: 3.8
1,791,168 views
Abortion is extremely common. In America, for example, one in three women will have an abortion in their lifetime, yet the strong emotions sparked by the topic -- and the highly politicized rhetoric around it -- leave little room for thoughtful, open debate. In this personal, thoughtful talk, Aspen Baker makes the case for being neither “pro-life” nor “pro-choice” but rather "pro-voice" -- and for the roles that listening and storytelling can play when it comes to discussing difficult topics.
Aspen Baker - Listener
As abortion debates have turned black-and-white, Aspen Baker advocates being "pro-voice" -- listening respectfully and compassionately to all kinds of experiences. Full bio
As abortion debates have turned black-and-white, Aspen Baker advocates being "pro-voice" -- listening respectfully and compassionately to all kinds of experiences. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:12
It was the middle of summer
and well past closing time
and well past closing time
0
598
2613
00:15
in the downtown Berkeley bar
where my friend Polly and I
where my friend Polly and I
1
3211
2687
00:17
worked together as bartenders.
2
5898
2341
00:20
Usually at the end of our shift
we had a drink -- but not that night.
we had a drink -- but not that night.
3
8693
3792
00:25
"I'm pregnant.
4
13732
1005
00:27
Not sure what I'm going
to do yet," I told Polly.
to do yet," I told Polly.
5
15224
3042
00:30
Without hesitation, she replied,
"I've had an abortion."
"I've had an abortion."
6
18729
3183
00:34
Before Polly, no one had ever told me
that she'd had an abortion.
that she'd had an abortion.
7
22819
4805
00:40
I'd graduated from college
just a few months earlier
just a few months earlier
8
28631
2705
00:43
and I was in a new relationship
when I found out that I was pregnant.
when I found out that I was pregnant.
9
31336
3625
00:47
When I thought about my choices,
I honestly did not know how to decide,
I honestly did not know how to decide,
10
35797
4687
00:52
what criteria I should use.
11
40534
2275
00:55
How would I know what
the right decision was?
the right decision was?
12
43459
2299
00:58
I worried that I would regret
an abortion later.
an abortion later.
13
46408
3274
01:03
Coming of age on the beaches
of Southern California,
of Southern California,
14
51044
2682
01:05
I grew up in the middle of
our nation's abortion wars.
our nation's abortion wars.
15
53785
3002
01:09
I was born in a trailer on the third
anniversary of Roe vs. Wade.
anniversary of Roe vs. Wade.
16
57646
4644
01:15
Our community was surfing Christians.
17
63578
2687
01:18
We cared about God, the less fortunate,
and the ocean.
and the ocean.
18
66265
3385
01:22
Everyone was pro-life.
19
70022
1718
01:24
As a kid, the idea of abortion made me so
sad that I knew if I ever got pregnant
sad that I knew if I ever got pregnant
20
72413
5712
01:30
I could never have one.
21
78125
1397
01:33
And then I did.
22
81412
1148
01:36
It was a step towards the unknown.
23
84789
2020
01:39
But Polly had given me
a very special gift:
a very special gift:
24
87531
2774
01:42
the knowledge that I wasn't alone
25
90305
2382
01:44
and the realization that abortion
was something that we can talk about.
was something that we can talk about.
26
92687
4060
01:49
Abortion is common.
27
97055
1828
01:51
According to the Guttmacher Institute,
one in three women in America
one in three women in America
28
99370
3308
01:54
will have an abortion in their lifetime.
29
102714
2438
02:00
But for the last few decades, the dialogue
around abortion in the United States
around abortion in the United States
30
108147
3903
02:04
has left little room for anything beyond
pro-life and pro-choice.
pro-life and pro-choice.
31
112050
3411
02:07
It's political and polarizing.
32
115944
2334
02:10
But as much as abortion is hotly debated,
it's still rare for us,
it's still rare for us,
33
118688
4274
02:14
whether as fellow women
or even just as fellow people,
or even just as fellow people,
34
122982
3916
02:18
to talk with one another
about the abortions that we have.
about the abortions that we have.
35
126898
4096
02:24
There is a gap.
36
132028
1148
02:25
Between what happens in politics
and what happens in real life,
and what happens in real life,
37
133430
3785
02:29
and in that gap, a battlefield mentality.
38
137215
2254
02:31
An "are you with us
or against us?" stance takes root.
or against us?" stance takes root.
39
139794
2902
02:36
This isn't just about abortion.
40
144058
2492
02:38
There are so many important issues
that we can't talk about.
that we can't talk about.
41
146655
4377
02:44
And so finding ways to shift the conflict
to a place of conversation
to a place of conversation
42
152278
5246
02:49
is the work of my life.
43
157524
2052
02:53
There are two main ways to get started.
44
161410
2717
02:56
One way is to listen closely.
45
164332
2140
02:58
And the other way is to share stories.
46
166634
2694
03:03
So, 15 years ago, I cofounded
an organization called Exhale
an organization called Exhale
47
171073
3572
03:06
to start listening to people
who have had abortions.
who have had abortions.
48
174664
2651
03:10
The first thing we did was create
a talk-line, where women and men
a talk-line, where women and men
49
178593
3370
03:13
could call to get emotional support.
50
181963
2040
03:16
Free of judgment and politics,
believe it or not, nothing like our sevice
believe it or not, nothing like our sevice
51
184862
4179
03:21
had ever existed.
52
189064
1393
03:24
We needed a new framework that could
hold all the experiences that we were
hold all the experiences that we were
53
192257
4210
03:28
hearing on our talk-line.
54
196467
1908
03:30
The feminist who regrets her abortion.
55
198934
2181
03:33
The Catholic who is grateful for hers.
56
201555
2462
03:36
The personal experiences that weren't
fitting neatly into one box or the other.
fitting neatly into one box or the other.
57
204132
4668
03:41
We didn't think it was right
to ask women to pick a side.
to ask women to pick a side.
58
209416
3541
03:45
We wanted to show them that
the whole world was on their side,
the whole world was on their side,
59
213467
4853
03:50
as they were going through this deeply
personal experience.
personal experience.
60
218469
4356
03:54
So we invented "pro-voice."
61
222964
1811
03:58
Beyond abortion, pro-voice works on hard
issues that we've struggled with globally
issues that we've struggled with globally
62
226191
4528
04:02
for years,
63
230751
1222
04:04
issues like immigration, religious
tolerance, violence against women.
tolerance, violence against women.
64
232022
5293
04:09
It also works on deeply personal topics
that might only matter to you
that might only matter to you
65
237315
3992
04:13
and your immediate family and friends.
66
241366
1939
04:15
They have a terminal illness,
their mother just died,
their mother just died,
67
243989
3807
04:19
they have a child with special needs
and they can't talk about it.
and they can't talk about it.
68
247878
3645
04:25
Listening and storytelling are
the hallmarks of pro-voice practice.
the hallmarks of pro-voice practice.
69
253636
4412
04:31
Listening and storytelling.
70
259302
1625
04:33
That sounds pretty nice.
71
261484
1672
04:35
Sounds maybe, easy?
We could all do that.
We could all do that.
72
263551
3297
04:39
It's not easy.
It's very hard.
It's very hard.
73
267150
2011
04:42
Pro-voice is hard because we are talking
about things everyone's fighting about
about things everyone's fighting about
74
270354
5828
04:48
or the things that no one
wants to talk about.
wants to talk about.
75
276233
2387
04:51
I wish I could tell you that when you
decide to be pro-voice, that you'll find
decide to be pro-voice, that you'll find
76
279409
6918
04:58
beautiful moments of breakthrough
and gardens full of flowers,
and gardens full of flowers,
77
286365
3677
05:02
where listening and storytelling
creates wonderful "a-ha" moments.
creates wonderful "a-ha" moments.
78
290615
3630
05:07
I wish I could tell you that there would
be a feminist welcoming party for you,
be a feminist welcoming party for you,
79
295220
4059
05:11
or that there's a long-lost sisterhood
of people who are just ready
of people who are just ready
80
299279
3362
05:14
to have your back when you get slammed.
81
302641
2360
05:18
But it can be vulnerable and exhausting
to tell our own stories
to tell our own stories
82
306301
4245
05:22
when it feels like nobody cares.
83
310546
2329
05:26
And if we truly listen to one another,
84
314520
4235
05:30
we will hear things that demand
that we shift our own perceptions.
that we shift our own perceptions.
85
318755
5958
05:37
There is no perfect time
and there is no perfect place
and there is no perfect place
86
325921
2906
05:40
to start a difficult conversation.
87
328827
2643
05:43
There's never a time when everyone will be
on the same page, share the same lens,
on the same page, share the same lens,
88
331811
5486
05:49
or know the same history.
89
337414
2206
05:53
So, let's talk about listening
and how to be a good listener.
and how to be a good listener.
90
341153
5317
05:58
There's lots of ways to be a good listener
and I'm going to give you just a couple.
and I'm going to give you just a couple.
91
346650
3958
06:02
One is to ask open-ended questions.
92
350905
2623
06:05
You can ask yourself or someone
that you know,
that you know,
93
353807
2712
06:08
"How are you feeling?"
94
356519
3000
06:11
"What was that like?"
95
359519
1486
06:14
"What do you hope for, now?"
96
362166
2089
06:18
Another way to be a good listener
is to use reflective language.
is to use reflective language.
97
366368
3971
06:22
If someone is talking about
their own personal experience,
their own personal experience,
98
370757
2904
06:25
use the words that they use.
99
373661
2413
06:28
If someone is talking about an abortion
and they say the word "baby,"
and they say the word "baby,"
100
376169
3318
06:31
you can say "baby."
101
379539
1504
06:33
If they say "fetus,"
you can say "fetus."
you can say "fetus."
102
381483
2067
06:36
If someone describes themselves
as gender queer to you,
as gender queer to you,
103
384479
2740
06:39
you can say "gender queer."
104
387224
1690
06:41
If someone kind of looks like a he,
but they say they're a she -- it's cool.
but they say they're a she -- it's cool.
105
389782
3590
06:45
Call that person a she.
106
393620
2167
06:48
When we reflect the language of the person
who is sharing their own story,
who is sharing their own story,
107
396081
3537
06:51
we are conveying that we are interested
in understanding who they are
in understanding who they are
108
399647
5351
06:57
and what they're going through.
109
405029
1867
06:59
The same way that we hope people are
interested in knowing us.
interested in knowing us.
110
407745
4098
07:05
So, I'll never forget being in one
of the Exhale counselor meetings,
of the Exhale counselor meetings,
111
413062
3411
07:08
listening to a volunteer talk about how
she was getting a lot of calls
she was getting a lot of calls
112
416473
3901
07:12
from Christian women who
were talking about God.
were talking about God.
113
420374
2695
07:16
Now, some of our volunteers are religious,
but this particular one was not.
but this particular one was not.
114
424114
3924
07:20
At first, it felt a little weird for her
to talk to callers about God.
to talk to callers about God.
115
428247
3891
07:24
So, she decided to get comfortable.
116
432852
2430
07:27
And she stood in front of her mirror
at home, and she said the word "God."
at home, and she said the word "God."
117
435282
3855
07:31
"God."
118
439671
704
07:32
"God."
119
440785
720
07:33
"God."
120
441505
720
07:34
"God."
121
442225
720
07:35
"God."
122
443325
702
07:36
"God."
123
444282
700
07:37
Over and over and over again
until the word no longer felt strange
until the word no longer felt strange
124
445801
3280
07:41
coming out her mouth.
125
449081
2130
07:43
Saying the word God did not turn this
volunteer into a Christian,
volunteer into a Christian,
126
451455
3870
07:47
but it did make her a much
better listener of Christian women.
better listener of Christian women.
127
455395
4791
07:54
So, another way to be pro-voice
is to share stories,
is to share stories,
128
462693
3883
07:58
and one risk that you take on, when you
share your story with someone else,
share your story with someone else,
129
466576
4220
08:02
is that given the same
set of circumstances as you
set of circumstances as you
130
470796
3187
08:05
they might actually
make a different decision.
make a different decision.
131
473983
2595
08:09
For example, if you're telling a story
about your abortion,
about your abortion,
132
477227
4196
08:13
realize that she might have had the baby.
133
481423
2980
08:18
She might have placed for adoption.
134
486284
1973
08:21
She might have told her parents
and her partner -- or not.
and her partner -- or not.
135
489790
3808
08:26
She might have felt relief and confidence,
even though you felt sad and lost.
even though you felt sad and lost.
136
494503
5712
08:32
This is okay.
137
500450
1787
08:35
Empathy gets created the moment we
imagine ourselves in someone else's shoes.
imagine ourselves in someone else's shoes.
138
503723
5340
08:41
It doesn't mean we all have
to end up in the same place.
to end up in the same place.
139
509606
3799
08:46
It's not agreement, it's not sameness
that pro-voice is after.
that pro-voice is after.
140
514729
5294
08:53
It creates a culture and a society that
values what make us special and unique.
values what make us special and unique.
141
521207
5758
08:59
It values what makes us human,
our flaws and our imperfections.
our flaws and our imperfections.
142
527569
5061
09:04
And this way of thinking allows us to see
our differences with respect,
our differences with respect,
143
532932
4585
09:09
instead of fear.
144
537551
1674
09:12
And it generates the empathy that we need
145
540386
2214
09:14
to overcome all the ways
that we try to hurt one another.
that we try to hurt one another.
146
542600
3426
09:18
Stigma, shame, prejudice,
discrimination, oppression.
discrimination, oppression.
147
546026
5551
09:24
Pro-voice is contagious,
and the more it's practiced
and the more it's practiced
148
552690
4880
09:29
the more it spreads.
149
557603
1590
09:35
So, last year I was pregnant again.
150
563149
2754
09:38
This time I was looking forward
to the birth of my son.
to the birth of my son.
151
566253
3296
09:42
And while pregnant, I had never been asked
how I was feeling so much in all my life.
how I was feeling so much in all my life.
152
570350
6536
09:48
(Laughter)
153
576927
1135
09:50
And however I replied, whether I was
feeling wonderful and excited
feeling wonderful and excited
154
578346
4020
09:54
or scared and totally freaked out,
155
582408
2744
09:57
there was always someone there
giving me a "been there" response.
giving me a "been there" response.
156
585217
4361
10:01
It was awesome.
157
589578
1587
10:03
It was a welcome, yet dramatic
departure from what I experience
departure from what I experience
158
591350
5170
10:08
when I talk about
my mixed feelings of my abortion.
my mixed feelings of my abortion.
159
596520
3608
10:13
Pro-voice is about the real stories
of real people
of real people
160
601087
3777
10:16
making an impact on the way abortion
161
604864
2580
10:19
and so many other politicized
and stigmatized issues
and stigmatized issues
162
607444
4098
10:23
are understood and discussed.
163
611542
2100
10:25
From sexuality and mental health
to poverty and incarceration.
to poverty and incarceration.
164
613857
4452
10:31
Far beyond definition
as single right or wrong decisions,
as single right or wrong decisions,
165
619562
3488
10:35
our experiences can exist on a spectrum.
166
623050
3385
10:40
Pro-voice focuses that conversation
on human experience
on human experience
167
628478
4322
10:44
and it makes support and respect
possible for all.
possible for all.
168
632800
4896
10:50
Thank you.
169
638755
1426
10:52
(Applause)
170
640390
2809
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Aspen Baker - ListenerAs abortion debates have turned black-and-white, Aspen Baker advocates being "pro-voice" -- listening respectfully and compassionately to all kinds of experiences.
Why you should listen
When Aspen Baker had an abortion at 24, she felt caught between warring pro-life and pro-choice factions, with no space to share her feelings. So she cofounded Exhale, a nonprofit that offers women and men emotional support after an abortion, free of judgment and politics. After being constantly asked to pick a side in the abortion conflict, Baker and her cofounders started a new conversation.
Leaving the black-and-white debate behind, they embraced the gray areas and personal stories hidden behind the fight. They invented “pro-voice,” a philosophy and practice that uses listening and storytelling to help people have respectful, compassionate exchanges about abortion, and many other controversial topics. Called a “fun, fearless female” by Cosmopolitan, Baker is an award-winning leader and author of Pro-Voice: How to Keep Listening When the World Wants a Fight.
More profile about the speakerLeaving the black-and-white debate behind, they embraced the gray areas and personal stories hidden behind the fight. They invented “pro-voice,” a philosophy and practice that uses listening and storytelling to help people have respectful, compassionate exchanges about abortion, and many other controversial topics. Called a “fun, fearless female” by Cosmopolitan, Baker is an award-winning leader and author of Pro-Voice: How to Keep Listening When the World Wants a Fight.
Aspen Baker | Speaker | TED.com