TEDGlobal 2011
Karen Tse: How to stop torture
Karen Tse: Hvordan man stopper tortur
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Politiske fanger er ikke de eneste, der bliver tortureret -- størstedelen af retslig tortur sker i normale sager, selv i "fungerende" retssystemer. Socialaktivisten Karen Tse viser, hvordan vi kan, og bør, sige fra og stoppe brugen af rutinetortur.
Karen Tse - Anti-torture activist
In too many countries, it's still normal to torture prisoners for confessions and information. Karen Tse works to end that. Full bio
In too many countries, it's still normal to torture prisoners for confessions and information. Karen Tse works to end that. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:16
In 1994, I walked into a prison in Cambodia,
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I 1994 gik jeg ind i et fængsel i Cambodja,
00:20
and I met a 12-year-old boy
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og jeg mødte en 12 år gammel dreng,
00:23
who had been tortured
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der var blevet tortureret
00:25
and was denied access to counsel.
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og blev nægtet en advokat.
00:27
And as I looked into his eyes, I realized
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Og mens jeg så ind i hans øjne, indså jeg,
00:29
that for the hundreds of letters I had written
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at i de hundredvis af breve, jeg havde skrevet
00:31
for political prisoners, that I would never have
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for politiske fanger, at jeg aldrig ville have
00:34
written a letter for him,
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skrevet et brev for ham,
00:36
because he was not a 12-year-old boy who
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for han var ikke en 12 år gammel dreng, der
00:38
had done something important for anybody.
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havde gjort noget vigtigt for nogen.
00:40
He was not a political prisoner.
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Han var ikke en politisk fange.
00:42
He was a 12-year-old boy who had
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Han var en 12 år gammel dreng, der havde
00:44
stolen a bicycle.
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stjålet en cykel.
00:46
What I also realized at that point was that
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Det, jeg også indså på det tidspunkt, var, at
00:48
it was not only Cambodia, but
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det ikke kun var Cambodja, men
00:50
of the 113
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af de 113
00:52
developing countries that torture,
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udviklingslande, der torturerer,
00:54
93 of these countries have all passed laws
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93 af disse lande har alle vedtaget love,
00:57
that say you have a right to a lawyer
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der siger, man har ret til en advokat,
00:59
and you have a right not to be tortured.
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og man har ret til ikke at blive tortureret.
01:02
And what I recognized was that there was an
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Og det, jeg genkendte, var, at der var et
01:04
incredible window of opportunity for us
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utroligt vindue af mulighed for os
01:06
as a world community to come together
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som verdenssamfund at komme sammen
01:09
and end torture as an investigative tool.
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og stoppe tortur som et efterforskningsmiddel.
01:12
We often think of torture as being
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Vi opfatter ofte tortur som værende
01:14
political torture or reserved for
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politisk tortur eller gemt til
01:16
just the worst, but, in fact,
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kun de værste, men i virkeligheden
01:19
95 percent of torture today
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er 95 procent af al tortur i dag
01:21
is not for political prisoners.
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ikke udøvet på politiske fanger.
01:23
It is for people who are
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Det er for folk, der er
01:25
in broken-down legal systems,
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i ødelagte retssystemer,
01:27
and unfortunately because torture is
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og desværre fordi tortur er
01:29
the cheapest form of investigation --
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den billigste form for efterforskning --
01:31
it's cheaper than having a legal system,
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det er billigere end at have et retssystem,
01:33
cheaper than having a lawyer
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billigere end at have en advokat
01:35
and early access to counsel --
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og tidlig adgang til rådgivning --
01:37
it is what happens most of the time.
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det er det, der sker det meste af tiden.
01:39
I believe today that it is possible for us
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Jeg tror i dag, at det er muligt for os
01:41
as a world community, if we make a decision,
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som verdenssamfund, hvis vi tager en beslutning,
01:44
to come together and end torture
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at komme sammen og stoppe tortur
01:46
as an investigative tool in our lifetime,
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som et efterforskningsmiddel i vores levetid,
01:49
but it will require three things.
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men det vil kræve tre ting.
01:51
First is the training, empowerment,
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Først kommer træningen, styrkelsen
01:54
and connection of defenders worldwide.
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og forbindelsen mellem forsvarere verden over.
01:57
The second is insuring that there is
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Dernæst kommer forsikringen om, at der er
02:00
systematic early access to counsel.
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systematisk tidlig adgang til rådgivning.
02:03
And the third is commitment.
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Og som det tredje kommer forpligtelse.
02:06
So in the year 2000,
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Så i år 2000
02:08
I began to wonder,
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begyndte jeg at overveje,
02:11
what if we came together?
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hvad nu hvis vi kom sammen?
02:14
Could we do something
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Kunne vi gøre noget
02:16
for these 93 countries?
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for disse 93 lande?
02:18
And I founded International Bridges to Justice
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Og jeg stiftede International Bridges to Justice,
02:20
which has a specific mission of
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der har den specifikke mission
02:22
ending torture as an investigative tool
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at stoppe tortur som efterforskningsmiddel
02:25
and implementing due process rights
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og implementere passende procesrettigheder
02:27
in the 93 countries by placing trained lawyers
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i de 93 lande ved at indsætte trænede advokater
02:30
at an early stage in police stations
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på et tidligt stadie i politistationer
02:32
and in courtrooms.
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og i retssale.
02:34
My first experiences, though, did come
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Min første oplevelse kom dog
02:36
from Cambodia, and at the time I remember
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fra Cambodja, og på den tid husker jeg, at jeg
02:39
first coming to Cambodia and there were,
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for første gang kom til Cambodja, og der var
02:41
in 1994, still less than
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i 1994 stadig færre end
02:43
10 attorneys in the country because
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10 advokater i landet, fordi
02:45
the Khmer Rouge had killed them all.
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De Røde Khmerer havde dræbt dem allesammen.
02:47
And even 20 years later, there was only
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Og selv 20 år senere var der kun
02:49
10 lawyers in the country, so consequently
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10 advokater i landet, så som konsekvens heraf
02:51
you'd walk into a prison and
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ville man gå ind i et fængsel, og
02:53
not only would you meet 12-year-old boys,
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man ville ikke bare møde 12-årige drenge,
02:55
you'd meet women and you'd say,
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man ville møde kvinder, og man ville sige,
02:57
"Why are you here?" Women would say,
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"Hvorfor er I her?" Kvinderne ville sige,
02:59
"Well I've been here for 10 years because
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"Altså jeg har været her i 10 år, fordi
03:01
my husband committed a crime, but they can't find him."
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min mand begik en forbrydelse, men de kan ikke finde ham."
03:03
So it's just a place where there was no rule of law.
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Så det var bare et sted, hvor der ikke var nogen retsnormer.
03:06
The first group of defenders came together
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Den første gruppe af forsvarere kom sammen,
03:08
and I still remember, as I was training, I said,
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og jeg husker stadig, da jeg trænede, sagde jeg,
03:10
"Okay, what do you do for an investigation?"
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"Okay, hvad gør I for at efterforske?"
03:12
And there was silence in the class, and finally
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Og der var stilhed i klassen, og endelig
03:14
one woman stood up, [inaudible name],
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rejste en kvinde sig, [utydeligt navn],
03:16
and she said "Khrew," which means "teacher."
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og hun sagde "Khrew," der betyder "lærer."
03:19
She said, "I have defended more than
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Hun sagde, "Jeg har forsvaret mere end
03:22
a hundred people, and I've never had to do
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et hundrede mennesker, og jeg har aldrig haft brug for
03:25
any investigation,
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at efterforske,
03:27
because they all come with confessions."
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for de kommer alle med tilståelser."
03:29
And we talked about, as a class, the fact that
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Og vi talte om, som klasse, det faktum, at
03:32
number one, the confessions
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nummer ét, tilståelserne
03:34
might not be reliable, but number two,
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måske ikke er pålidelige, men nummer to,
03:36
we did not want to encourage the police
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vi ville ikke opfordre politiet til
03:38
to keep doing this, especially
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at fortsætte med at gøre dette, især
03:40
as it was now against the law.
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da det nu var imod loven.
03:42
And it took a lot of courage for these
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Og det krævede en del mod af disse
03:44
defenders to decide that they would
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forsvarere at beslutte sig for, at de ville
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begin to stand up and support each other
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begynde at rejse sig og støtte hinanden
03:48
in implementing these laws.
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i at implementere disse love.
03:51
And I still remember the first cases where
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Og jeg husker stadig de første sager, hvor
03:53
they came, all 25 together, she would
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de kom, alle 25 sammen, hun ville
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stand up, and they were in the back, and
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rejse sig op, og de var bagerst, og
03:57
they would support her, and the judges kept
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de ville støtte hende, og dommerne blev ved med
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saying, "No, no, no, no, we're going to do things
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at sige, "Nej, nej, nej, nej, vi gør tingene
04:01
the exact same way we've been doing them."
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på nøjagtigt samme måde, vi altid har gjort dem."
04:03
But one day the perfect case came, and it
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Men en dag kom den perfekte sag, og det
04:05
was a woman who was a vegetable seller,
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var en kvinde, der var grøntsagssælger,
04:07
she was sitting outside of a house.
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hun sad uden for et hus.
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She said she actually saw the person
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Hun sagde, hun faktisk så personen
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run out who she thinks stole
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løbe ud, som hun tror stjal
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whatever the jewelry was, but the police
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hvad det nu var for nogle smykker, men politiet
04:16
came, they got her, there was nothing on her.
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kom, de fik hende, der var intet på hende.
04:18
She was pregnant at the time. She had
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Hun var gravid på det tidspunkt. Hun havde
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cigarette burns on her. She'd miscarried.
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cigaretbrændemærker på sig. Hun havde aborteret.
04:22
And when they brought her case
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Og da de bragte hendes sag
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to the judge, for the first time he stood up
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for dommeren, rejste han sig for første gang op,
04:26
and he said, "Yes, there's no evidence
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og han sagde, "Ja, der er ingen beviser
04:28
except for your torture confession
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ud over din torturtilståelse,
04:30
and you will be released."
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og du skal løslades."
04:32
And the defenders began to take cases
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Og forsvarerne begyndte at tage sager
04:34
over and over again and
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igen og igen, og
04:36
you will see, they have step by step began
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I vil se, de er skridt for skridt begyndt
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to change the course of history in Cambodia.
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at ændre historiens gang i Cambodja.
04:42
But Cambodia is not alone.
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Men Cambodja er ikke alene.
04:44
I used to think, well is it Cambodia?
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Jeg plejede at tænke, jamen er det Cambodja?
04:46
Or is it other countries?
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Eller er det andre lande?
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But it is in so many countries.
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Men det findes i så mange lande.
04:51
In Burundi I walked into a prison and it wasn't
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I Burundi gik jeg ind i et fængsel, og det var ikke
04:53
a 12-year-old boy, it was an 8-year-old boy
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en 12 år gammel dreng, det var en 8 år gammel dreng
04:56
for stealing a mobile phone.
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for at stjæle en mobiltelefon.
04:58
Or a woman, I picked up her baby,
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Eller en kvinde, jeg samlede hendes baby op,
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really cute baby, I said "Your baby is so cute."
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virkelig sød baby, jeg sagde "Din baby er så sød."
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It wasn't a baby, she was three.
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Det var ikke en baby, hun var tre.
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And she said "Yeah, but she's why I'm here,"
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Og hun sagde "Jah, men hun er grunden til, jeg er her,"
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because she was accused of stealing
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fordi hun var anklaget for at stjæle
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two diapers and an iron for her baby and
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to bleer og et strygejern til sin baby og
05:11
still had been in prison.
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havde stadig været i fængsel.
05:13
And when I walked up to the prison director,
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Og da jeg gik op til fængselsdirektøren,
05:15
I said, "You've got to let her out.
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sagde jeg, "Du er nødt til at slippe hende gå.
05:17
A judge would let her out."
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En dommer ville lade hende gå."
05:19
And he said, "Okay, we can talk about it,
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Og han sagde, "Okay, vi kan tale om det,
05:21
but look at my prison. Eighty percent
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men se på mit fængsel. Firs procent
05:23
of the two thousand people here
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af de to tusind folk her
05:25
are without a lawyer. What can we do?"
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er uden advokat. Hvad kan vi gøre?"
05:27
So lawyers began to courageously
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Så advokater begyndte modigt at
05:29
stand up together to organize a system
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rejse sig sammen for at organisere et system,
05:32
where they can take cases.
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hvor de kan tage sager.
05:34
But we realized that it's not only the training
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Men vi indså, at det ikke kun er træningen
05:36
of the lawyers, but the connection
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af advokater, men forbindelsen
05:38
of the lawyers that makes a difference.
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mellem advokaterne, der gør en forskel.
05:40
For example, in Cambodia, it was that
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For eksempel, i Cambodja var det, at
05:42
[inaudible name] did not go alone
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[utydeligt navn] ikke var alene,
05:44
but she had 24 lawyers with her
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men hun havde 24 advokater med sig,
05:46
who stood up together. And in the same way,
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der stod op sammen. Og på samme måde
05:48
in China, they always tell me,
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i Kina siger de altid til mig,
05:50
"It's like a fresh wind in the desert
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"Det er som en frisk vind i ørkenen,
05:52
when we can come together."
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når vi kan komme sammen."
05:54
Or in Zimbabwe, where I remember Innocent,
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Eller i Zimbabwe, hvor jeg husker Innocent
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after coming out of a prison where everybody
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efter at være kommet ud af et fængsel, hvor alle
05:58
stood up and said, "I've been here
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stod op og sagde, "Jeg har været her
06:00
for one year, eight years, 12 years
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i et år, otte år, 12 år
06:02
without a lawyer,"
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uden en advokat,"
06:04
he came and we had a training together
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kom han, og vi trænede sammen,
06:06
and he said, "I have heard it said" --
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og han sagde, "Jeg har hørt det sagt" --
06:09
because he had heard people mumbling
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for han havde hørt folk mumle
06:11
and grumbling -- "I have heard it said that
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og brokke sig -- "Jeg har hørt det sagt, at
06:13
we cannot help to create justice
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vi ikke kan hjælpe til med at skabe retfærdighed,
06:16
because we do not have the resources."
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fordi vi ikke har ressourcerne."
06:18
And then he said, "But I want you to know
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Og så sagde han, "Men jeg vil gerne have du ved,
06:20
that the lack of resources
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at manglen på ressourcer
06:23
is never an excuse for injustice."
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aldrig er en undskyldning for uretfærdighed."
06:25
And with that, he successfully
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Og med det organiserede han
06:27
organized 68 lawyers who have been
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med succes 68 advokater, der systematisk
06:30
systematically taking the cases.
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har taget sagerne.
06:32
The key that we see, though, is training
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Nøglen, som vi ser det, er dog træning
06:35
and then early access.
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og så tidlig adgang.
06:37
I was recently in Egypt, and was inspired
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Jeg var for nyligt i Ægypten og blev inspireret
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to meet with another group of lawyers,
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til at mødes med en anden gruppe advokater,
06:41
and what they told me is that they said,
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og det, de fortalte mig, er, at de sagde,
06:43
"Hey, look, we don't have police
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"Hey, se her, vi har ikke politi
06:45
on the streets now. The police are
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på gaderne nu. Politiet er
06:47
one of the main reasons why we had
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en af hovedårsagerne til, hvorfor vi havde
06:49
the revolution. They were torturing everybody
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den revolution. De torturerede alle
06:51
all the time."
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hele tiden."
06:53
And I said, "But there's been tens of millions
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Og jeg sagde, "Men der har været millionvis
06:55
of dollars that have recently gone in
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af dollars, der for nyligt er blevet sat af
06:57
to the development of the legal system here.
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til udviklingen af retssystemet her.
06:59
What's going on?"
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Hvad sker der?"
07:01
I met with one of the development agencies,
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Jeg mødtes med en af udviklingsbureauerne,
07:04
and they were training prosecutors
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og de trænede anklagere
07:06
and judges, which is the normal bias,
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og dommere, hvilket er den normale forudindtagethed,
07:08
as opposed to defenders.
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i modsætningen til forsvarere.
07:10
And they showed me a manual which
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Og de viste mig en manual, der
07:12
actually was an excellent manual.
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egentlig var en fremragende manual.
07:14
I said, "I'm gonna copy this."
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Jeg sagde, "Jeg vil kopiere denne."
07:16
It had everything in it. Lawyers can come
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Den havde alt i sig. Advokater kan komme
07:18
at the police station. It was perfect.
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på politistationen. Den var perfekt.
07:20
Prosecutors were perfectly trained.
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Anklagere var perfekt trænede.
07:22
But I said to them, "I just have one question,
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Men jeg sagde til dem, "Jeg har bare ét spørgsmål,
07:24
which is, by the time that everybody got to
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som er, på det tidspunkt, hvor alle kom til
07:26
the prosecutor's office, what had happened to them?"
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anklagerens kontor, hvad var der sket med dem?"
07:28
And after a pause, they said,
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Og efter en pause sagde de,
07:30
"They had been tortured."
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"De var blevet torturerede."
07:32
So the pieces are,
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Så stykkerne er
07:34
not only the training of the lawyers, but
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ikke kun træningen af advokaterne, men
07:36
us finding a way to systematically implement
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at vi finder en vej til systematisk at implementere
07:39
early access to counsel, because they are
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tidlig adgang til rådgivning, fordi de er
07:42
the safeguard in the system
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systemets sikkerhedsforanstaltning
07:44
for people who are being tortured.
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for folk, der bliver tortureret.
07:47
And as I tell you this, I'm also aware of the
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Og mens jeg fortæller jer dette, er jeg også klar over,
07:49
fact that it sounds like, "Oh, okay, it sounds
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at det lyder som, "Åh, okay, det lyder
07:51
like we could do it, but can we really do it?"
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som om vi kunne gøre det, men kan vi virkelig gøre det?"
07:54
Because it sounds big.
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For det lyder stort.
07:56
And there are many reasons why I believe it's possible.
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Og der er mange grunde til, hvorfor jeg tror på, det er muligt.
07:59
The first reason is the people on the ground
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Den første grund er folkene på jorden,
08:02
who find ways of creating miracles
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der finder måder at skabe mirakler på
08:05
because of their commitment.
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på grund af deres engagement.
08:07
It's not only Innocent, who I told you about
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Det er ikke kun Innocent, som jeg fortalte jer om
08:10
in Zimbabwe, but defenders all over the world
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i Zimbabwe, men forsvarere i hele verden,
08:13
who are looking for these pieces.
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der leder efter disse stykker.
08:16
We have a program called JusticeMakers,
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Vi har et program, der hedder JusticeMakers,
08:19
and we realized there are people that are
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og vi indså, der er folk, der er
08:21
courageous and want to do things, but
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modige og gerne vil gøre ting, men
08:23
how can we support them?
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hvordan kan vi støtte dem?
08:25
So it's an online contest where it's only
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Så det er en en online konkurrence, hvor man kun får
08:27
five thousand dollars if you come up with
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fem tusind dollars, hvis man finder på
08:29
and innovative way of implementing justice.
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en opfindsom måde at implementere retfærdighed.
08:31
And there are 30 JusticeMakers
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Og der er 30 JusticeMakers
08:33
throughout the world, from Sri Lanka
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i hele verden, fra Sri Lanka
08:35
to Swaziland to the DRC, who with
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til Swaziland til DR Congo, der med
08:38
five thousand dollars do amazing things,
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fem tusind dollars gør fantastiske ting,
08:41
through SMS programs,
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gennem SMS programmer,
08:43
through paralegal programs,
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gennem advokatmedhjælperprogrammer,
08:45
through whatever they can do.
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gennem hvad nu end, de kan gøre.
08:47
And it's not only these JusticeMakers,
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Og det er ikke kun disse JusticeMakers,
08:51
but people we courageously see
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men folk, som vi ser modigt,
08:53
figure out who their networks are
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finde ud af, hvem deres netværker er,
08:56
and how they can move it forward.
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og hvordan de kan bevæge det fremad.
08:58
So in China, for instance, great laws
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Så i Kina for eksempel kom gode love
09:00
came out where it says police cannot
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ud, der siger, politiet ikke må
09:03
torture people or they will be punished.
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torturere folk, ellers bliver de straffet.
09:06
And I was sitting side by side with one of our
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Og jeg sad side om side med en af vores
09:09
very courageous lawyers, and said,
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meget modige advokater og sagde,
09:12
"How can we get this out? How can we
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"Hvordan kan vi føre det her ud? Hvordan kan vi
09:14
make sure that this is implemented?
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sikre, at det her bliver implementeret?
09:16
This is fantastic." And he said to me,
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Det er fantastisk." Og han sagde til mig,
09:18
"Well, do you have money?" And I said,
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"Altså, har du penge?" Og jeg sagde,
09:20
"No." And he said, "That's okay,
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"Nej." Og han sagde, "Det er okay,
09:22
we can still figure it out."
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vi kan stadig finde ud af det."
09:24
And on December 4, he organized
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Og den 4. december organiserede han
09:26
three thousand members
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tre tusind medlemmer
09:28
of the Youth Communist League,
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fra Youth Communist League
09:30
from 14 of the top law schools,
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fra 14 af de bedste juridiske fakulteter,
09:32
who organized themselves, developed
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der organiserede sig selv, udviklede
09:34
posters with the new laws, and went
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plakater med de nye love og gik
09:36
to the police stations and began what he says
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til politistationerne og begyndte med, hvad han siger,
09:38
is a non-violent legal revolution
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er en ikke-voldelig retslig revolution
09:41
to protect citizen rights.
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for at beskytte borgerrettigheder.
09:44
So I talked about the fact that we need
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Så jeg talte om, at vi har brug for
09:46
to train and support defenders.
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at træne og støtte forsvarere.
09:48
We need to systematically implement
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Vi er nødt til systematisk at implementere
09:50
early access to counsel.
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tidlig adgang til rådgivning.
09:52
But the third and most important thing is that
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Men den tredje og vigtigste ting er, at
09:54
we make a commitment to this.
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vi forpligter os til dette.
09:56
And people often say to me, "You know,
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Og folk siger ofte til mig, "Altså,
09:58
this is great, but it's wildly idealistic.
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det her er rigtig godt, men det er vildt idealistisk.
10:00
Never going to happen."
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Sker aldrig."
10:02
And the reason that I think that
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Og grunden til, jeg synes, at
10:04
those words are interesting is because
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de ord er interessante, er, at
10:06
those were the same kinds of words
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de ord var af den samme type,
10:08
that were used for people who decided
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der blev brugt om folk, der besluttede,
10:10
they would end slavery, or end apartheid.
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de ville stoppe slaveri eller stoppe apartheid.
10:12
It began with a small group of people
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Det begyndte med en lille gruppe mennesker,
10:14
who decided they would commit.
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der besluttede, de ville engagere sig.
10:16
Now, there's one of our favorite poems
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Nu er der et af vores favoritdigte
10:18
from the defenders, which they share
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fra forsvarerne, som de deler
10:20
from each other, is:
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med hinanden, lyder:
10:22
"Take courage friends, the road is often long,
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"Fat mod venner, vejen er ofte lang,
10:24
the path is never clear,
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retningen er aldrig klar,
10:26
and the stakes are very high,
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og indsatserne er meget høje,
10:28
but deep down, you are not alone."
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men dybt nede, er I ikke alene."
10:30
And I believe that if we can come together
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Og jeg tror, at hvis vi kan komme sammen
10:33
as a world community to support not only
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som et verdenssamfund til at støtte ikke bare
10:35
defenders, but also everyone in the system
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forsvarere, men også alle i systemet,
10:38
who is looking towards it,
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der ser mod det,
10:40
we can end torture as an investigative tool.
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kan vi stoppe tortur som et efterforskningsmiddel.
10:43
I end always, because I'm sure the questions are --
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Jeg slutter altid af med, fordi jeg ved, hvad spørgsmålene er --
10:45
and I'd be happy to talk to you
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og jeg vil være glad for at snakke med jer
10:47
at any point -- "But what can I really do?"
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til enhver tid -- "Men hvad kan jeg virkelig gøre?"
10:49
Well, I would say this. First of all,
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Altså, jeg ville sige dette. For det første
10:51
you know what you can do. But second of all,
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ved I, hvad I kan gøre. Men for det andet
10:53
I would leave you with the story of Vishna,
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vil jeg forlade jer med historien om Vishna,
10:55
who actually was my inspiration
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der egentlig var min inspiration
10:58
for starting International Bridges to Justice.
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til at starte International Bridges to Justice.
11:00
Vishna was a 4-year-old boy when I met him
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Vishna var en 4 år gammel dreng, da jeg mødte ham,
11:03
who was born in a Cambodian prison
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der blev født i et cambodjansk fængsel
11:05
in Kandal Province. But because he was
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i Kandalprovinsen. Men fordi han blev
11:08
born in the prison, everybody loved him,
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født i fængslet, elskede alle ham,
11:10
including the guards, so he was the only one
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inklusive vagterne, så han var den eneste,
11:12
who was allowed to come
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der fik lov til at komme
11:14
in and out of the bars.
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på begge sider af tremmerne.
11:16
So, you know, there's bars. And by the time
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Så, I ved, der er tremmer. Og som tiden gik,
11:18
that Vishna was getting bigger,
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blev Vishna større,
11:20
which means what gets bigger? Your head gets bigger.
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hvilket betød, hvad bliver større? Ens hoved bliver større.
11:22
So he would come to the first bar,
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Så han ville komme til den første tremme,
11:24
the second bar and then the third bar,
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den anden tremme og så den tredje tremme,
11:26
and then really slowly move his head
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og så virkeligt langsomt bevæge sit hoved,
11:28
so he could fit through, and come back,
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så han kunne mase sig igennem og komme tilbage,
11:30
third, second, first. And he would
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tredje, anden, første. Og han ville
11:32
grab my pinkie, because what he wanted
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gribe min lillefinger, fordi det, han ville
11:34
to do every day is he wanted to go visit.
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gøre hver dag, er, han ville gå på besøg.
11:36
You know, he never quite made it to
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I ved, han nåede aldrig helt
11:38
all of them every day, but he wanted to visit
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dem alle hver dag, men han ville besøge
11:40
all 156 prisoners. And I would lift him,
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alle 156 fanger. Og jeg ville løfte ham,
11:42
and he would put his fingers through.
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og han ville putte sine fingre gennem.
11:44
Or if they were dark cells, it was like iron
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Eller hvis det var mørke celler, var det som bølgeblik,
11:46
corrugated, and he would put his fingers through.
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og han ville putte sine fingre igennem.
11:48
And most of the prisoners said that he was
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Og de fleste af fangerne sagde, at han var
11:50
their greatest joy and their sunshine, and they
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deres største fornøjelse og deres solskin, og de
11:52
looked forward to him. And I was like,
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så frem til ham. Og jeg var sådan,
11:54
here's Vishna. He's a 4-year-old boy.
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her er Vishna. Han er en 4 år gammel dreng.
11:56
He was born in a prison with almost nothing,
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Han blev født i et fængsel med næsten ingenting,
11:58
no material goods, but he had a sense of
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ingen materielle goder, men han havde en opfattelse af
12:00
his own heroic journey, which I believe
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sin egen heroiske rejse, som jeg tror,
12:02
we are all born into. He said,
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vi alle er født til. Han sagde,
12:04
"Probably I can't do everything.
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"Sandsynligvis kan jeg ikke gøre alt.
12:06
But I'm one. I can do something.
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Men jeg er én. Jeg kan gøre noget.
12:08
And I will do the one thing that I can do."
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Og jeg vil gøre den ene ting, som jeg kan gøre."
12:10
So I thank you for having the prophetic
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Så jeg takker jer for at have den profetiske
12:12
imagination to imagine the shaping
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fantasi til at forestille jer formningen
12:15
of a new world with us together,
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af en ny verden med os sammen
12:17
and invite you into this journey with us.
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og inviterer jer til denne rejse med os.
12:19
Thank you.
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Tak.
12:21
(Applause)
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(Bifald)
12:29
Thank you.
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Tak.
12:31
(Applause)
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(Bifald)
12:33
Thank you.
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Tak.
12:35
(Applause)
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(Bifald)
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Karen Tse - Anti-torture activistIn too many countries, it's still normal to torture prisoners for confessions and information. Karen Tse works to end that.
Why you should listen
A former public defender, Karen Tse developed an interest in the intersection of criminal law and human rights after observing Southeast Asian refugees held in a local prison without trial, often tortured to obtain "confessions." In 1994, she moved to Cambodia to train the country's first core group of public defenders. Under the auspices of the UN, she trained judges and prosecutors, and established the first arraignment court in Cambodia.
In 2000, Tse founded International Bridges to Justice to help create systemic change in criminal justice and promote basic rights of legal representation for defendants on the ground. Her foundation complements the work of witness groups, who do the equally vital work of advocacy, reports, photographs. Tse's group helps governments build new systems that respect individual rights. In IBJ's first years, she negotiated groundbreaking measures in judicial reform with the Chinese, Vietnamese and Cambodian governments. It now works in sixteen countries, including Rwanda, Burundi and India.
She says: "I believe it is possible to end torture in my lifetime."
Karen Tse | Speaker | TED.com