TED2015
Sophie Scott: Why we laugh
Sophie Scott: Hvorfor vi griner
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Vidste du at du ler 30 gange mere når du er sammen med nogen, end når du er alene? Kognitiv neurolog Sophie Scott deler dette og andre overraskende facts om latter i denne hurtigtkørende, aktionmættede og, ja, lattervækkende tur gennem videnskaben om dette emne.
Sophie Scott - Neuroscientist, stand-up comic
While exploring the neuroscience of speech and vocal behavior, Sophie Scott stumbled upon a surprising second vocation: making audiences laugh as a stand-up comic. Full bio
While exploring the neuroscience of speech and vocal behavior, Sophie Scott stumbled upon a surprising second vocation: making audiences laugh as a stand-up comic. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:12
Hi. I'm going to talk
to you today about laughter,
to you today about laughter,
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Hej. Jeg vil tale i dag med jer om latter,
00:15
and I just want to start
by thinking about the first time
by thinking about the first time
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og jeg vil starte med at tænke på
den første gang
den første gang
00:18
I can ever remember noticing laughter.
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jeg husker at bemærke latter.
00:20
This is when I was a little girl.
I would've been about six.
I would've been about six.
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Det var da jeg var en lille pige,
omkring seks år gammel.
omkring seks år gammel.
00:23
And I came across my parents
doing something unusual,
doing something unusual,
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Og jeg så mine forældre gøre
noget usædvanligt,
noget usædvanligt,
00:27
where they were laughing.
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hvor de grinte.
00:28
They were laughing very, very hard.
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De grinte rigtig, rigtig meget.
00:30
They were lying on the floor laughing.
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De lå på gulvet og grinte.
00:32
They were screaming with laughter.
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De skreg af grin.
00:34
I did not know what they were
laughing at, but I wanted in.
laughing at, but I wanted in.
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Jeg vidste ikke, hvad de grinte af,
men jeg ville også være med.
men jeg ville også være med.
00:38
I wanted to be part of that,
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Jeg ville være en del af det,
00:40
and I kind of sat around at the edge
going, "Hoo hoo!" (Laughter)
going, "Hoo hoo!" (Laughter)
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og jeg sad ved siden af dem og ligesom
sagde "Huu huu!" (Latter)
sagde "Huu huu!" (Latter)
00:43
Now, incidentally,
what they were laughing at
what they were laughing at
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Tilfældigvis var det, de grinte ad
00:47
was a song which people used to sing,
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en sang, som folk plejede at synge,
00:49
which was based around
signs in toilets on trains
signs in toilets on trains
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som handlede om skilte i toiletter på tog
00:53
telling you what you could
and could not do
and could not do
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som viste hvad du må og ikke må gøre
00:56
in toilets on trains.
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i toiletter på tog.
00:57
And the thing you have to remember
about the English is, of course,
about the English is, of course,
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Og hvad du må huske om os
englændere, er selvfølgelig,
englændere, er selvfølgelig,
at vi har en særdeles sofistikeret
sans for humor.
sans for humor.
01:00
we do have an immensely
sophisticated sense of humor.
sophisticated sense of humor.
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(Latter)
01:03
(Laughter)
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01:04
At the time, though, I didn't
understand anything of that.
understand anything of that.
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Dengang forstod jeg dog ikke
noget af alt det.
noget af alt det.
01:07
I just cared about the laughter,
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Jeg forstod kun latteren,
01:09
and actually, as a neuroscientist,
I've come to care about it again.
I've come to care about it again.
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og som neurolog er jeg begyndt at
interessere mig for den igen.
interessere mig for den igen.
01:12
And it is a really weird thing to do.
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Og det er en meget sær ting at gøre.
01:15
What I'm going to do now
is just play some examples
is just play some examples
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Nu vil jeg vise nogle eksempler
01:17
of real human beings laughing,
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af rigtige mennesker, der ler,
01:19
and I want you think about the sound
people make and how odd that can be,
people make and how odd that can be,
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og jeg vil at I skal tænke over lyden
og hvor sær den kan være,
og hvor sær den kan være,
01:22
and in fact how primitive
laughter is as a sound.
laughter is as a sound.
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og hvor primitiv lyden af
latter egentlig er.
latter egentlig er.
01:25
It's much more like an animal call
than it is like speech.
than it is like speech.
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Det er meget mere et dyrekald end
den ligner tale.
den ligner tale.
01:28
So here we've got some laughter for you.
The first one is pretty joyful.
The first one is pretty joyful.
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Så her er lidt latter til jer.
Den første er ret munter.
Den første er ret munter.
01:31
(Audio: Laughing)
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(Lyd: Latter)
01:47
Now this next guy, I need him to breathe.
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Den næste mand, synes jeg,
trænger til at trække vejret.
trænger til at trække vejret.
01:50
There's a point in there
where I'm just, like,
where I'm just, like,
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Der er et tidspunkt hvor jeg tænker
01:52
you've got to get some air in there, mate,
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du har brug for noget luft der, min ven,
01:54
because he just sounds
like he's breathing out.
like he's breathing out.
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for han lyder som om at han
kun ånder ud.
kun ånder ud.
(Lyd: Latter)
01:56
(Audio: Laughing)
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02:05
This hasn't been edited; this is him.
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Det er ikke blevet redigeret; det er ham.
(Lyd: Latter)
(Latter)
(Latter)
02:08
(Audio: Laughing)
(Laughter)
(Laughter)
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02:14
And finally we have --
this is a human female laughing.
this is a human female laughing.
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Og endelig har vi --
det her en kvinde, der ler.
det her en kvinde, der ler.
02:18
And laughter can take us to some pretty
odd places in terms of making noises.
odd places in terms of making noises.
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Og latter kan tage os til nogen mærkelige
steder, når det kommer til at lave lyde.
steder, når det kommer til at lave lyde.
02:22
(Audio: Laughing)
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(Lyd: Latter)
02:41
She actually says, "Oh my God,
what is that?" in French.
what is that?" in French.
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Hun siger egentlig, "Åh du godeste,
hvad er det?" på fransk.
hvad er det?" på fransk.
02:44
We're all kind of with her.
I have no idea.
I have no idea.
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Vi tænker det samme som hende.
Jeg aner det ikke.
Jeg aner det ikke.
02:48
Now, to understand laughter,
you have to look at a part of the body
you have to look at a part of the body
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For at forstå latter,
må vi se på en del af kroppen
må vi se på en del af kroppen
02:51
that psychologists and neuroscientists
don't normally spend much time looking at,
don't normally spend much time looking at,
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som psykologer og neurologer
normalt ikke bruger så megen tid på,
normalt ikke bruger så megen tid på,
som er brystkassen,
02:55
which is the ribcage,
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og den virker ikke så spændende,
02:56
and it doesn't seem terribly exciting,
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men faktisk bruger du brystkassen
hele tiden.
hele tiden.
02:58
but actually you're all using
your ribcage all the time.
your ribcage all the time.
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Det, som I alle gør i øjeblikket med
jeres brystkasse,
jeres brystkasse,
03:00
What you're all doing
at the moment with your ribcage,
at the moment with your ribcage,
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som I altid gør, er at trække vejret.
03:03
and don't stop doing it, is breathing.
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I bruger musklerne i interkostalrummet,
musklerne mellem ribbenene,
musklerne mellem ribbenene,
03:05
So you use the intercostal muscles,
the muscles between your ribs,
the muscles between your ribs,
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at trække luft ind og ud af lungerne
03:08
to bring air in and out of your lungs
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kun ved at udvide og
sammentrække brystkassen,
sammentrække brystkassen,
03:10
just by expanding
and contracting your ribcage,
and contracting your ribcage,
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og hvis jeg satte et bånd omkring
jeres bryst,
jeres bryst,
03:12
and if I was to put a strap
around the outside of your chest
around the outside of your chest
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kaldet et åndedrætsbælte, og ser
på den bevægelse,
på den bevægelse,
03:15
called a breath belt, and just look
at that movement,
at that movement,
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kan man se en lille bevægelse i
sinus, som er åndedrættet.
sinus, som er åndedrættet.
03:17
you see a rather gentle sinusoidal
movement, so that's breathing.
movement, so that's breathing.
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I gør det alle. Ikke stoppe.
03:21
You're all doing it. Don't stop.
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Når I starter at tale,
03:22
As soon as you start talking,
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bruger I åndedrættet helt
anderledes.
anderledes.
03:24
you start using your breathing
completely differently.
completely differently.
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Hvad jeg gør nu er, som I ser,
noget meget mere som dette.
noget meget mere som dette.
03:26
So what I'm doing now is you see
something much more like this.
something much more like this.
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03:29
In talking, you use very fine
movements of the ribcage
movements of the ribcage
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Talende gør vi meget små bevægelser
med brystkassen
med brystkassen
for at presse luften ud --
03:32
to squeeze the air out --
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03:33
and in fact, we're the only animals
that can do this.
that can do this.
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og faktisk er vi de eneste dyr
er i stand til det.
er i stand til det.
Derfor kan vi tale.
03:36
It's why we can talk at all.
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Både at tale og at ånde har
en ærkefjende,
en ærkefjende,
03:37
Now, both talking and breathing
has a mortal enemy,
has a mortal enemy,
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03:40
and that enemy is laughter,
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og den fjende er latter,
03:43
because what happens when you laugh
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for hvad der sker når vi ler
er at de samme muskler trækker
sig meget jævnligt sammen,
sig meget jævnligt sammen,
03:45
is those same muscles
start to contract very regularly,
start to contract very regularly,
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03:48
and you get this very marked
sort of zig-zagging,
sort of zig-zagging,
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og der dannes et meget stærkt
zig-zag mønster,
zig-zag mønster,
03:51
and that's just squeezing
the air out of you.
the air out of you.
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som presser luften ud af dig.
Det er måden vi laver lyde på.
03:53
It literally is that basic a way
of making a sound.
of making a sound.
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03:56
You could be stamping on somebody,
it's having the same effect.
it's having the same effect.
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Hvis man stamper på folk
får man den samme effekt.
får man den samme effekt.
03:59
You're just squeezing air out,
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Vi presser kun luft ud,
og hver sammentrækning -- Ha!
-- laver en lyd.
-- laver en lyd.
04:00
and each of those contractions --
Ha! -- gives you a sound.
Ha! -- gives you a sound.
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Som sammentrækningerne sker oftere,
får man disse spasmer,
får man disse spasmer,
04:03
And as the contractions run together,
you can get these spasms,
you can get these spasms,
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og der sker disse -- (Hvæser) -- ting.
04:06
and that's when you start getting
these -- (Wheezing) -- things happening.
these -- (Wheezing) -- things happening.
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Jeg er rigtig god til det her. (Latter)
04:10
I'm brilliant at this. (Laughter)
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04:13
Now, in terms of the science of laughter,
there isn't very much,
there isn't very much,
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Videnskabeligt set er der ikke
meget om latter,
meget om latter,
04:17
but it does turn out that pretty much
everything we think we know
everything we think we know
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men det viser sig at stort set alt,
som vi tror vi ved
som vi tror vi ved
04:20
about laughter is wrong.
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om latter er ukorrekt.
04:23
So it's not at all unusual, for example,
to hear people to say
to hear people to say
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Det er slet ikke usædvanligt, f.eks.,
at høre folk sige
at høre folk sige
04:25
humans are the only animals that laugh.
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mennesker er de eneste dyr, der ler.
Nietzsche troede at mennesker er de
eneste dyr, der ler.
eneste dyr, der ler.
04:28
Nietzsche thought that humans
are the only animals that laugh.
are the only animals that laugh.
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Faktisk kan du finde latter
hos alle pattedyr.
hos alle pattedyr.
04:30
In fact, you find laughter
throughout the mammals.
throughout the mammals.
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Den er blevet observeret og dokumenteret
hos primater,
hos primater,
04:33
It's been well-described
and well-observed in primates,
and well-observed in primates,
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men rotter ler også,
04:35
but you also see it in rats,
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og allevegne --
04:37
and wherever you find it --
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04:38
humans, primates, rats --
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mennesker, primater, rotter --
er den forbundet med at kilde, f.eks.
04:40
you find it associated
with things like tickling.
with things like tickling.
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Det er det samme hos mennesker.
04:43
That's the same for humans.
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04:46
You find it associated with play,
and all mammals play.
and all mammals play.
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Den er forbundet med leg,
og alle pattedyr leger.
og alle pattedyr leger.
04:51
And wherever you find it,
it's associated with interactions.
it's associated with interactions.
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Allevegne man finder latter,
er den forbundet med interaktioner.
er den forbundet med interaktioner.
04:55
So Robert Provine, who has done
a lot of work on this,
a lot of work on this,
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Robert Provine, som har arbejdet
meget med dette,
meget med dette,
04:58
has pointed out that you are 30 times
more likely to laugh
more likely to laugh
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har påpeget at du er 30 gange mere
tilbøjelig til at le
tilbøjelig til at le
05:02
if you are with somebody else
than if you're on your own,
than if you're on your own,
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hvis du er sammen med nogen,
end hvis du er alene,
end hvis du er alene,
05:06
and where you find most laughter
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og man finder mest latter
05:08
is in social interactions
like conversation.
like conversation.
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i sociale interaktioner såsom samtale.
05:10
So if you ask human beings,
"When do you laugh?"
"When do you laugh?"
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Hvis du spørger mennesker,
"Hvornår ler du?"
"Hvornår ler du?"
05:13
they'll talk about comedy and they'll talk
about humor and they'll talk about jokes.
about humor and they'll talk about jokes.
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vil de tale om komik, humor og
vittigheder.
vittigheder.
05:17
If you look at when they laugh,
they're laughing with their friends.
they're laughing with their friends.
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Hvis du ser på hvornår de ler,
ler de sammen med deres venner.
ler de sammen med deres venner.
05:20
And when we laugh with people, we're
hardly ever actually laughing at jokes.
hardly ever actually laughing at jokes.
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Når vi ler sammen med mennesker, ler vi
næsten aldrig ad vittigheder.
næsten aldrig ad vittigheder.
05:23
You are laughing to show people
that you understand them,
that you understand them,
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Vi ler for at vise andre,
at vi forstår dem,
at vi forstår dem,
05:26
that you agree with them, that you're
part of the same group as them.
part of the same group as them.
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at vi er enige, at vi er del af den
samme gruppe som dem.
samme gruppe som dem.
Vi ler for at vise at vi kan lide dem.
05:29
You're laughing to show
that you like them.
that you like them.
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Vi elsker dem måske.
05:31
You might even love them.
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Vi gør alt dette samtidig med at vi
taler med dem,
taler med dem,
05:33
You're doing all that at the same time
as talking to them,
as talking to them,
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og latteren gør meget af det følelses-
mæssige arbejde for os.
mæssige arbejde for os.
05:35
and the laughter is doing a lot
of that emotional work for you.
of that emotional work for you.
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Det er noget, som Robert Provine har
påvist, som det ses her,
påvist, som det ses her,
05:38
Something that Robert Provine
has pointed out, as you can see here,
has pointed out, as you can see here,
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og grunden til at vi lo
05:41
and the reason why we were laughing
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når vi hørte de sjove lyde i starten,
05:43
when we heard those
funny laughs at the start,
funny laughs at the start,
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og hvorfor jeg lo når jeg så
mine forældre le,
mine forældre le,
05:45
and why I was laughing
when I found my parents laughing,
when I found my parents laughing,
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er at det har en enormt smitsom effekt
på vores opførsel.
på vores opførsel.
05:48
is that it's an enormously
behaviorally contagious effect.
behaviorally contagious effect.
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Du kan smittes med latter fra andre,
05:51
You can catch laughter from somebody else,
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og du har lettere ved at smittes med
latter hvis du kender den anden.
latter hvis du kender den anden.
05:53
and you are more likely to catch laughter
off somebody else if you know them.
off somebody else if you know them.
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Den er stadig moduleret af sociale
kontekster.
kontekster.
05:57
So it's still modulated
by this social context.
by this social context.
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Vi lægger humor til side
05:59
You have to put humor to one side
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og tænker på den sociale mening
med latter
med latter
06:00
and think about the social
meaning of laughter
meaning of laughter
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for det er hvordan den er opstået.
06:03
because that's where its origins lie.
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Jeg er blevet meget interesseret i
forskellige slags latter,
forskellige slags latter,
06:05
Now, something I've got very interested in
is different kinds of laughter,
is different kinds of laughter,
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og vi har neurobiologiske beviser for
hvordan mennesker vokaliserer
hvordan mennesker vokaliserer
06:09
and we have some neurobiological evidence
about how human beings vocalize
about how human beings vocalize
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06:14
that suggests there might be
two kinds of laughs that we have.
two kinds of laughs that we have.
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der indikerer at vi har to forskellige
slags latter.
slags latter.
06:18
So it seems possible that the neurobiology
for helpless, involuntary laughter,
for helpless, involuntary laughter,
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Det er muligt at neurobiologien for
hjælpeløs ufrivillig latter,
hjælpeløs ufrivillig latter,
06:23
like my parents lying on the floor
screaming about a silly song,
screaming about a silly song,
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som mine forældre der lå og skreg af
latter over en fjollet sang,
latter over en fjollet sang,
06:26
might have a different basis to it
than some of that more polite
than some of that more polite
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nok har en anderledes baggrund
end den mere høflige
end den mere høflige
06:29
social laughter that you encounter,
which isn't horrible laughter,
which isn't horrible laughter,
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sociale latter som vi møder, der ikke
er en forfærdelig latter,
er en forfærdelig latter,
06:32
but it's behavior somebody is doing
as part of their communicative act to you,
as part of their communicative act to you,
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men det er en opførsel en person gør,
som en del af kommunikativ relation,
som en del af kommunikativ relation,
06:36
part of their interaction with you;
they are choosing to do this.
they are choosing to do this.
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en del af deres interaktion med dig;
de vælger at gøre det.
de vælger at gøre det.
I vores evolution har vi udviklet to
forskellige måder at vokalisere.
forskellige måder at vokalisere.
06:40
In our evolution, we have developed
two different ways of vocalizing.
two different ways of vocalizing.
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Ufrivillige vokaliseringer er del af
et ældre system
et ældre system
06:43
Involuntary vocalizations
are part of an older system
are part of an older system
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06:46
than the more voluntary vocalizations
like the speech I'm doing now.
like the speech I'm doing now.
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end de mere frivillige vokaliseringer som
talen jeg frembringer nu.
talen jeg frembringer nu.
Vi kan forestille os at latter egentlig
har to forskellige baggrunde.
har to forskellige baggrunde.
06:49
So we might imagine that laughter
might actually have two different roots.
might actually have two different roots.
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Jeg har undersøgt dette mere nøje.
06:53
So I've been looking at this
in more detail.
in more detail.
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For at muliggøre det, har vi måttet lave
optagelser af folk der ler,
optagelser af folk der ler,
06:55
To do this, we've had to make
recordings of people laughing,
recordings of people laughing,
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og vi måtte gøre hvad som helst for
at få dem til at le,
at få dem til at le,
06:58
and we've had to do whatever it takes
to make people laugh,
to make people laugh,
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07:01
and we got those same people
to produce more posed, social laughter.
to produce more posed, social laughter.
134
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og de samme mennesker lo en
mere opstillet, social latter.
mere opstillet, social latter.
Din ven fortæller en vittighed,
07:04
So imagine your friend told a joke,
135
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og du ler fordi du kan lide din ven,
07:05
and you're laughing because
you like your friend,
you like your friend,
136
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ikke så meget pga. vittigheden.
07:08
but not really because
the joke's all that.
the joke's all that.
137
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2008
Jeg vil spille nogle af disse eksempler.
07:10
So I'm going to play you
a couple of those.
a couple of those.
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Fortæl mig om I tror dette er ægte latter,
07:12
I want you to tell me if you think
this laughter is real laughter,
this laughter is real laughter,
139
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eller om den er opstillet.
07:15
or if you think it's posed.
140
423507
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Er dette ufrivillig eller
frivillig latter?
frivillig latter?
07:16
So is this involuntary laughter
or more voluntary laughter?
or more voluntary laughter?
141
424806
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(Lyd: Latter)
07:19
(Audio: Laughing)
142
427742
4880
07:24
What does that sound like to you?
143
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Hvordan lyder det på jer?
07:26
Audience: Posed.
Sophie Scott: Posed? Posed.
Sophie Scott: Posed? Posed.
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Publikum: Falsk.
Sophie Scott: Falsk? Falsk.
Sophie Scott: Falsk? Falsk.
Hvad med denne?
07:28
How about this one?
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(Lyd: Latter)
07:29
(Audio: Laughing)
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437819
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(Latter)
07:34
(Laughter)
147
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1432
07:35
I'm the best.
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1416
Jeg er den bedste.
07:37
(Laughter) (Applause)
149
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2639
(Latter) (Bifald)
07:39
Not really.
150
447857
1736
Nej, vrøvl.
07:41
No, that was helpless laughter,
151
449593
2250
Nej, det var ufrivillig latter,
og for at få den lyd optog de mig
mens jeg kiggede på en optagelse
mens jeg kiggede på en optagelse
07:43
and in fact, to record that,
all they had to do was record me
all they had to do was record me
152
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3275
07:47
watching one of my friends listening to
something I knew she wanted to laugh at,
something I knew she wanted to laugh at,
153
455118
3777
af en af mine venner der lyttede til noget
jeg vidste hun ville le ad,
jeg vidste hun ville le ad,
07:50
and I just started doing this.
154
458895
1470
og jeg lo på den måde.
Folk er gode til at se forskel
07:52
What you find is that people
are good at telling the difference
are good at telling the difference
155
460365
3217
mellem ægte og opstillet latter.
07:55
between real and posed laughter.
156
463582
1545
De er to forskellige ting for os.
07:57
They seem to be different things to us.
157
465127
1914
Nogen gange kan man se det samme
hos chimpanser.
hos chimpanser.
07:59
Interestingly, you see something
quite similar with chimpanzees.
quite similar with chimpanzees.
158
467041
3032
Chimpanser ler anderledes
hvis de bliver kildet
hvis de bliver kildet
08:02
Chimpanzees laugh differently
if they're being tickled
if they're being tickled
159
470073
2548
end hvis de leger med hinanden,
08:04
than if they're playing with each other,
160
472621
1969
og vi ser noget lignende her,
ufrivillig latter, kildende latter,
som anderledes end social latter.
som anderledes end social latter.
08:06
and we might be seeing
something like that here,
something like that here,
161
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2262
08:08
involuntary laughter, tickling laughter,
being different from social laughter.
being different from social laughter.
162
476852
3694
De er ret forskellige akustisk set.
De ægte er længere.
De er højere i tonefald.
De er højere i tonefald.
08:12
They're acoustically very different.
163
480546
1741
08:14
The real laughs are longer.
They're higher in pitch.
They're higher in pitch.
164
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2492
Når du ler rigtig meget,
presser du luft ud af lungerne
08:16
When you start laughing hard,
165
484779
1419
08:18
you start squeezing air out
from your lungs
from your lungs
166
486198
2053
under højere pres end du nogensinde
kunne rent viljemæssigt.
kunne rent viljemæssigt.
08:20
under much higher pressures
than you could ever produce voluntarily.
than you could ever produce voluntarily.
167
488251
3191
F.eks. kunne jeg aldrig presse min stemme
derop for at synge.
derop for at synge.
08:23
For example, I could never
pitch my voice that high to sing.
pitch my voice that high to sing.
168
491442
2922
Også vil der komme sammentrækninger
og mærkelige fløjtelyde,
og mærkelige fløjtelyde,
08:26
Also, you start to get these sort of
contractions and weird whistling sounds,
contractions and weird whistling sounds,
169
494364
3668
som betyder at ægte latter
er meget nem at frembringe,
er meget nem at frembringe,
08:30
all of which mean that real laughter
is extremely easy,
is extremely easy,
170
498032
2766
08:32
or feels extremely easy to spot.
171
500798
2072
eller føles nem at aflæse.
08:34
In contrast, posed laughter,
we might think it sounds a bit fake.
we might think it sounds a bit fake.
172
502870
5082
Som kontrast vil opstillet latter lyde
falsk i vore ører.
falsk i vore ører.
08:39
Actually, it's not, it's actually
an important social cue.
an important social cue.
173
507952
2740
Det er den ikke, den har en meget
vigtig social funktion.
vigtig social funktion.
Vi bruger den meget, vi vælger at le
i mange situationer,
i mange situationer,
08:42
We use it a lot, we're choosing
to laugh in a lot of situations,
to laugh in a lot of situations,
174
510692
3077
og den synes at være sin egen.
08:45
and it seems to be its own thing.
175
513769
1613
08:47
So, for example, you find
nasality in posed laughter,
nasality in posed laughter,
176
515382
2787
F.eks. hører vi nasalitet
i opstillet latter
i opstillet latter
08:50
that kind of "ha ha ha ha ha" sound
177
518169
2107
den der "ha ha ha ha ha" lyd
08:52
that you never get, you could not do,
if you were laughing involuntarily.
if you were laughing involuntarily.
178
520276
3447
som du aldrig ville kunne frembringe
hvis du lo ufrivilligt.
hvis du lo ufrivilligt.
08:55
So they do seem to be genuinely
these two different sorts of things.
these two different sorts of things.
179
523723
3232
De virker reelt set til at være helt
forskellige ting.
forskellige ting.
08:58
We took it into the scanner
to see how brains respond
to see how brains respond
180
526955
2550
Vi lavede scanninger for at se
hvordan hjernen reagerer
hvordan hjernen reagerer
når vi hører latter.
09:01
when you hear laughter.
181
529505
1212
I arbejdsprocessen er det et ret
kedeligt eksperiment.
kedeligt eksperiment.
09:02
And when you do this,
this is a really boring experiment.
this is a really boring experiment.
182
530717
2668
09:05
We just played people
real and posed laughs.
real and posed laughs.
183
533385
2045
Vi viste folk ægte og opstillede lattere.
09:07
We didn't tell them
it was a study on laughter.
it was a study on laughter.
184
535430
2204
De vidste ikke at vi
undersøgte latter.
undersøgte latter.
09:09
We put other sounds in there
to distract them,
to distract them,
185
537634
2199
Vi lagde andre lyde ind for at
distrahere dem,
distrahere dem,
09:11
and all they're doing
is lying listening to sounds.
is lying listening to sounds.
186
539833
2387
og alt de gør er at ligge og
lytte til lyde.
lytte til lyde.
09:14
We don't tell them to do anything.
187
542220
1643
Vi beder dem ikke at gøre noget.
09:15
Nonetheless, when you hear real laughter
and when you hear posed laughter,
and when you hear posed laughter,
188
543863
3474
Alligevel, når du hører ægte latter
og når du hører opstillet latter,
og når du hører opstillet latter,
09:19
the brains are responding
completely differently,
completely differently,
189
547337
2417
reagerer hjernen helt forskelligt,
09:21
significantly differently.
190
549754
1432
signifikant forskelligt.
09:23
What you see in the regions in blue,
which lies in auditory cortex,
which lies in auditory cortex,
191
551186
3548
Hvad I ser at områderne i blåt,
som ligger i auditive cortex,
som ligger i auditive cortex,
09:26
are the brain areas that respond
more to the real laughs,
more to the real laughs,
192
554734
2689
er hjerneområderne der reagerer
mere på ægte latter,
mere på ægte latter,
09:29
and what seems to be the case,
193
557423
1441
og det synes at være tilfældet
09:30
when you hear somebody
laughing involuntarily,
laughing involuntarily,
194
558864
2157
når vi hører nogen le ufrivilligt,
09:33
you hear sounds you would never
hear in any other context.
hear in any other context.
195
561021
2727
hører vi lyde, vi aldrig ville høre
i andre sammenhænge.
i andre sammenhænge.
09:35
It's very unambiguous,
196
563748
1086
Den er meget entydig,
09:36
and it seems to be associated
with greater auditory processing
with greater auditory processing
197
564834
3070
og synes at være forbundet med
større auditiv processering
større auditiv processering
09:39
of these novel sounds.
198
567904
1370
af disse nye lyde.
09:41
In contrast, when you hear somebody
laughing in a posed way,
laughing in a posed way,
199
569274
3809
Til kontrast, når vi hører nogen
le på en opstillet måde,
le på en opstillet måde,
09:45
what you see are these regions in pink,
200
573083
2042
hvad vi ser er disse områder i pink,
09:47
which are occupying brain areas
associated with mentalizing,
associated with mentalizing,
201
575125
2879
som optager hjerneområder
forbundet med mentalisering,
forbundet med mentalisering,
09:50
thinking about what
somebody else is thinking.
somebody else is thinking.
202
578004
2155
at tænke over hvad andre tænker.
09:52
And I think what that means is,
203
580159
1540
Og jeg tror at det betyder
09:53
even if you're having your brain scanned,
which is completely boring
which is completely boring
204
581699
3197
at selv om du får din hjerne scannet,
hvilket er ret kedeligt
hvilket er ret kedeligt
og slet ikke interessant,
09:56
and not very interesting,
205
584896
1200
når du dér hører nogen sige:
"A ha ha ha ha ha,"
"A ha ha ha ha ha,"
09:58
when you hear somebody going,
"A ha ha ha ha ha,"
"A ha ha ha ha ha,"
206
586096
2333
10:00
you're trying to work out
why they're laughing.
why they're laughing.
207
588429
2196
forsøger du at regne ud,
hvorfor de ler.
hvorfor de ler.
10:02
Laughter is always meaningful.
208
590625
1445
Latter er altid meningsfuld.
10:04
You are always trying
to understand it in context,
to understand it in context,
209
592070
2340
Du forsøger altid at forstå den i kontekst
10:06
even if, as far as you are concerned,
at that point in time,
at that point in time,
210
594410
2866
selv om, på det tidspunkt for dig,
den ikke har noget med dig at gøre,
10:09
it has not necessarily
anything to do with you,
anything to do with you,
211
597276
2187
du vil stadig vide hvorfor disse folk ler.
10:11
you still want to know
why those people are laughing.
why those people are laughing.
212
599463
2672
Vi har haft muligheden for at se på,
hvordan folk skelner mellem latter
hvordan folk skelner mellem latter
10:14
Now, we've had the opportunity to look
at how people hear real and posed laughter
at how people hear real and posed laughter
213
602135
3866
i alle aldersgrupper.
10:18
across the age range.
214
606001
1063
Dette er et online eksperiment vi
foretog med Royal Society,
foretog med Royal Society,
10:19
So this is an online experiment
we ran with the Royal Society,
we ran with the Royal Society,
215
607064
2931
og vi spurgte folk to spørgsmål.
10:21
and here we just asked people
two questions.
two questions.
216
609995
2104
De hørte folk le,
10:24
First of all, they heard some laughs,
217
612099
1828
og de skulle svare på, hvor ægte eller
opstillet det lød.
opstillet det lød.
10:25
and they had to say, how real
or posed do these laughs sound?
or posed do these laughs sound?
218
613927
3019
De ægte lattere vises i rødt, og de
opstillede i blåt.
opstillede i blåt.
10:28
The real laughs are shown in red
and the posed laughs are shown in blue.
and the posed laughs are shown in blue.
219
616946
3457
Hvad I ser er hurtig indtræden.
10:32
What you see is there is a rapid onset.
220
620403
1897
Jo ældre vi bliver, jo bedre bliver vi
til at kende ægte latter.
til at kende ægte latter.
10:34
As you get older, you get better
and better at spotting real laughter.
and better at spotting real laughter.
221
622300
3352
Børn i seksårsalderen kan
ikke kende forskel.
ikke kende forskel.
10:37
So six-year-olds are at chance,
they can't really hear the difference.
they can't really hear the difference.
222
625652
3325
Når vi bliver ældre, bliver
vi bedre til det,
vi bedre til det,
10:40
By the time you are older, you get better,
223
628977
2152
10:43
but interestingly, you do not hit
peak performance in this dataset
peak performance in this dataset
224
631129
3622
men vi bliver ikke eksperter i området,
før vi er sidst i 30´erne og
først i 40´erne.
først i 40´erne.
10:46
until you are in your
late 30s and early 40s.
late 30s and early 40s.
225
634751
3531
10:50
You don't understand laughter fully
by the time you hit puberty.
by the time you hit puberty.
226
638282
3041
Vi forstår ikke latter fuldt ud før
vi kommer i puberteten.
vi kommer i puberteten.
10:53
You don't understand laughter fully
by the time your brain has matured
by the time your brain has matured
227
641323
3297
Vi forstår ikke latter fuldt ud, før
vor hjerne er udviklet
vor hjerne er udviklet
sidst i teenageårene.
10:56
at the end of your teens.
228
644620
1394
Vi lærer om latter gennem hele vort
tidlige voksenliv.
tidlige voksenliv.
10:58
You're learning about laughter
throughout your entire early adult life.
throughout your entire early adult life.
229
646014
3798
Hvis vi vender spørgsmålet og spørger,
ikke hvad latter lyder som,
ikke hvad latter lyder som,
11:01
If we turn the question around and now say
not, what does the laughter sound like
not, what does the laughter sound like
230
649812
3802
11:05
in terms of being real
or posed, but we say,
or posed, but we say,
231
653614
2052
ægte eller opstillet, men om
hvor meget denne latter giver
dig lyst til at le,
dig lyst til at le,
11:07
how much does this laughter
make you want to laugh,
make you want to laugh,
232
655666
2484
hvor smittende denne latter er for dig,
ser vi noget andet.
ser vi noget andet.
11:10
how contagious is this laughter to you,
we see a different profile.
we see a different profile.
233
658150
3215
Og her, jo yngre du er,
11:13
And here, the younger you are,
234
661365
1503
11:14
the more you want to join in
when you hear laughter.
when you hear laughter.
235
662868
2434
jo mere har du lyst til at le,
når du hører latter.
når du hører latter.
11:17
Remember me laughing with my parents
when I had no idea what was going on.
when I had no idea what was going on.
236
665302
3493
Husk på mig, leende med mine forældre,
når jeg ikke forstod det der skete.
når jeg ikke forstod det der skete.
Dette kan vi se.
11:20
You really can see this.
237
668795
1226
Alle, ung som gammel,
11:22
Now everybody, young and old,
238
670021
1395
11:23
finds the real laughs more contagious
than the posed laughs,
than the posed laughs,
239
671416
2845
synes at ægte latter er mere smittende
end opstillet latter,
end opstillet latter,
men som vi ældes bliver det mindre
smittende for os.
smittende for os.
11:26
but as you get older, it all becomes
less contagious to you.
less contagious to you.
240
674261
2910
11:29
Now, either we're all just becoming
really grumpy as we get older,
really grumpy as we get older,
241
677171
4204
Enten bliver vi mere gnavne som ældre,
11:33
or it may mean that as you
understand laughter better,
understand laughter better,
242
681375
2929
eller forstår vi latter bedre,
11:36
and you are getting better at doing that,
243
684304
2089
og vi bliver bedre til at forstå den,
11:38
you need more than just
hearing people laugh to want to laugh.
hearing people laugh to want to laugh.
244
686393
2946
og vi har brug for mere end kun at høre
latter for at le med.
latter for at le med.
11:41
You need the social stuff there.
245
689339
2647
Vi har brug for den sociale vinkel.
Så vi har en meget interessant opførsel
11:43
So we've got a very interesting behavior
246
691986
1974
11:45
about which a lot of our
lay assumptions are incorrect,
lay assumptions are incorrect,
247
693960
3153
omkring hvor mange af vore antagelser
er ukorrekte,
er ukorrekte,
men faktisk er der mere end så om latter
11:49
but I'm coming to see that actually
there's even more to laughter
there's even more to laughter
248
697113
3851
11:52
than it's an important social emotion
we should look at,
we should look at,
249
700964
2731
end at det er en vigtig social følelse
vi skal bemærke,
vi skal bemærke,
11:55
because it turns out
people are phenomenally nuanced
people are phenomenally nuanced
250
703695
2919
for det viser sig at folk
er fænomenalt nuancerede
er fænomenalt nuancerede
11:58
in terms of how we use laughter.
251
706614
1587
i hvordan vi bruger latter.
12:00
There's a really lovely
set of studies coming out
set of studies coming out
252
708201
2284
Nogle dejlige undersøgelser
kommer snart ud
kommer snart ud
12:02
from Robert Levenson's lab in California,
253
710485
2094
fra Robert Levenson´s laboratorie i USA,
12:04
where he's doing
a longitudinal study with couples.
a longitudinal study with couples.
254
712579
2476
hvor han laver langsgående
undersøgelser med par.
undersøgelser med par.
12:07
He gets married couples,
men and women, into the lab,
men and women, into the lab,
255
715055
2783
Gifte par, mænd og kvinder, kommer ind,
12:09
and he gives them
stressful conversations to have
stressful conversations to have
256
717838
2294
og får stressende samtaler
at have fra ham,
at have fra ham,
12:12
while he wires them up to a polygraph
so he can see them becoming stressed.
so he can see them becoming stressed.
257
720132
3532
mens de er forbundet til en polygraf-
maskine, så han kan se dem stresse.
maskine, så han kan se dem stresse.
12:15
So you've got the two of them in there,
and he'll say to the husband,
and he'll say to the husband,
258
723664
3235
De er begge derinde, og han siger
til manden
til manden
12:18
"Tell me something that your wife does
that irritates you."
that irritates you."
259
726899
2782
"Fortæl mig noget som din kone gør,
der irriterer dig."
der irriterer dig."
12:21
And what you see is immediately --
260
729681
1616
Og man kan med det samme se --
12:23
just run that one through your head
briefly, you and your partner --
briefly, you and your partner --
261
731297
3327
tænk lige på den situation,
dig og din partner --
dig og din partner --
12:26
you can imagine everybody gets a bit
more stressed as soon as that starts.
more stressed as soon as that starts.
262
734624
4148
I kan forestille jer at alle bliver lidt
mere stressede med det samme.
mere stressede med det samme.
12:30
You can see physically,
people become more stressed.
people become more stressed.
263
738772
2624
Fysisk kan man se folk stresse mere.
12:33
What he finds is that the couples
who manage that feeling of stress
who manage that feeling of stress
264
741396
5782
Han ser også, at parrene der
tackler stressfølelsen
tackler stressfølelsen
12:39
with laughter,
positive emotions like laughter,
positive emotions like laughter,
265
747178
3506
med latter, positive
følelser som latter,
følelser som latter,
12:42
not only immediately become less stressed,
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ikke kun straks bliver mindre stressede,
12:46
they can see them
physically feeling better,
physically feeling better,
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men også at de får det bedre
rent fysisk,
rent fysisk,
12:48
they're dealing with this
unpleasant situation better together,
unpleasant situation better together,
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og de tackler den ubehagelige
situation bedre sammen,
situation bedre sammen,
12:52
they are also the couples that report
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de er også parrene der udmelder
12:53
high levels of satisfaction
in their relationship
in their relationship
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høje niveauer af tilfredshed
i deres forhold
i deres forhold
12:56
and they stay together for longer.
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og de bliver sammen længere.
12:57
So in fact, when you look
at close relationships,
at close relationships,
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Så når man kigger på tætte forhold,
13:00
laughter is a phenomenally useful index
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er latter et utrolig brugbart indeks
13:02
of how people are regulating
their emotions together.
their emotions together.
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af hvordan folk regulerer
deres følelser sammen.
deres følelser sammen.
13:04
We're not just emitting it at each other
to show that we like each other,
to show that we like each other,
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Vi viser den ikke kun til andre
for at vise at vi kan lide dem,
for at vise at vi kan lide dem,
13:08
we're making ourselves
feel better together.
feel better together.
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vi får os selv til at have
det bedre sammen.
det bedre sammen.
13:10
Now, I don't think this is going
to be limited to romantic relationships.
to be limited to romantic relationships.
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Jeg tror ikke, at dette kun gælder
romantiske forhold.
romantiske forhold.
13:13
I think this is probably
going to be a characteristic
going to be a characteristic
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Jeg tror det kommer til at kendetegne
13:16
of close emotional relationships
such as you might have with friends,
such as you might have with friends,
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tætte, følelsesmæssige forhold
som du også kan have med venner,
som du også kan have med venner,
13:19
which explains my next clip,
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der forklarer mit næste klip,
som er en YouTube video af nogle
unge mænd fra fhv. Øst-Tyskland
unge mænd fra fhv. Øst-Tyskland
13:21
which is of a YouTube video of some
young men in the former East Germany
young men in the former East Germany
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13:24
on making a video to promote
their heavy metal band,
their heavy metal band,
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der laver en promo-video for
deres heavy metal-gruppe,
deres heavy metal-gruppe,
13:28
and it's extremely macho,
and the mood is very serious,
and the mood is very serious,
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og den er ekstremt macho og
tonen er meget seriøs,
tonen er meget seriøs,
13:31
and I want you to notice
what happens in terms of laughter
what happens in terms of laughter
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og læg mærke til, hvad der sker
i forhold til latter
i forhold til latter
13:34
when things go wrong
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når tingene går galt,
13:36
and how quickly that happens,
and how that changes the mood.
and how that changes the mood.
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hvor hurtigt det sker,
og hvordan tonen forandres.
og hvordan tonen forandres.
13:41
He's cold. He's about to get wet.
He's got swimming trunks on,
He's got swimming trunks on,
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Han fryser. Han kommer til at blive våd.
Han er i svømmeshorts,
Han er i svømmeshorts,
13:44
got a towel.
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3738
har et håndklæde.
13:48
Ice.
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Is.
Hvad kommer til at ske?
13:50
What might possibly happen?
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2438
13:54
Video starts.
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Videoen starter.
13:57
Serious mood.
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Seriøs tone.
14:06
And his friends are already laughing.
They are already laughing, hard.
They are already laughing, hard.
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4505
Og hans venner ler allerede.
De griner allerede meget.
De griner allerede meget.
14:11
He's not laughing yet.
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1904
Han ler ikke endnu.
14:14
(Laughter)
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1649
(Latter)
14:16
He's starting to go now.
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Han begynder at le nu.
14:25
And now they're all off.
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Og nu griner de allesammen.
14:27
(Laughter)
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(Latter)
14:44
They're on the floor.
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1742
De ligger på gulvet.
14:46
(Laughter)
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(Latter)
14:55
The thing I really like about that
is it's all very serious
is it's all very serious
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Jeg kan rigtig godt lide at
videoen er så seriøs
videoen er så seriøs
14:59
until he jumps onto the ice, and
as soon as he doesn't go through the ice,
as soon as he doesn't go through the ice,
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til han hopper ud på isen, og så snart
han ikke falder gennem isen,
han ikke falder gennem isen,
15:02
but also there isn't blood
and bone everywhere,
and bone everywhere,
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og der ikke er blod og
knogler allevegne,
knogler allevegne,
15:05
his friends start laughing.
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1573
begynder hans venner at grine.
15:06
And imagine if that had played him out
with him standing there going,
with him standing there going,
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Forestil jer, at hvis det der skete
var at han stod der og sagde
var at han stod der og sagde
15:09
"No seriously, Heinrich,
I think this is broken,"
I think this is broken,"
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897992
2444
"Nej seriøst Heinrich,
den er i stykker,"
den er i stykker,"
ville vi ikke synes om at se det.
Det ville stresse os.
Det ville stresse os.
15:12
we wouldn't enjoy watching that.
That would be stressful.
That would be stressful.
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Eller hvis han løb rundt med
et synligt brækket ben og lo,
et synligt brækket ben og lo,
15:15
Or if he was running around
with a visibly broken leg laughing,
with a visibly broken leg laughing,
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og hans venner sagde "Heinrich, nu
skal du på hospitalet,"
skal du på hospitalet,"
15:18
and his friends are going, "Heinrich, I
think we need to go to the hospital now,"
think we need to go to the hospital now,"
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ville det ikke være sjovt.
Faktum er, at latter virker,
den får ham fra en smertefuld, flov
og svær situation,
og svær situation,
15:22
that also wouldn't be funny.
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1397
15:23
The fact that the laughter works,
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911407
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til en sjov situation, til hvad vi alle
kan le med i,
kan le med i,
15:25
it gets him from a painful,
embarrassing, difficult situation,
embarrassing, difficult situation,
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2962
15:28
into a funny situation, into what we're
actually enjoying there,
actually enjoying there,
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3085
og jeg synes at det er en
interessant funktion,
interessant funktion,
og det sker hele tiden.
15:31
and I think that's
a really interesting use,
a really interesting use,
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2187
F.eks. kan jeg huske noget
lignende ske
lignende ske
15:33
and it's actually happening all the time.
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1978
15:35
For example, I can remember
something like this happening
something like this happening
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2691
ved min fars begravelse.
Vi hoppede ikke rundt på isen
i vore underbukser.
i vore underbukser.
15:37
at my father's funeral.
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1197
15:39
We weren't jumping around
on the ice in our underpants.
on the ice in our underpants.
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2615
Vi er ikke fra Canada.
15:41
We're not Canadian.
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2641
(Latter) (Bifald)
15:44
(Laughter) (Applause)
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2455
15:46
These events are always difficult, I had
a relative who was being a bit difficult,
a relative who was being a bit difficult,
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3883
Disse begivenheder er altid svære, og
et familiemedlem var besværligt,
et familiemedlem var besværligt,
15:50
my mum was not in a good place,
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1530
min mor havde det ikke godt,
og jeg kan huske at jeg fandt mig selv,
lige før det hele begyndte,
lige før det hele begyndte,
15:52
and I can remember finding myself
just before the whole thing started
just before the whole thing started
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3284
fortælle en historie om noget der
skete i en komedie fra 1970´erne,
skete i en komedie fra 1970´erne,
15:55
telling this story about something
that happened in a 1970s sitcom,
that happened in a 1970s sitcom,
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og jeg tænkte, jeg ved ikke
hvorfor jeg gør dette,
hvorfor jeg gør dette,
15:59
and I just thought at the time,
I don't know why I'm doing this,
I don't know why I'm doing this,
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2438
16:02
and what I realized I was doing
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og jeg indså at grunden var
16:04
was I was coming up with
something from somewhere
something from somewhere
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952484
2698
at jeg forsøgte at bruge noget
et eller andet sted fra
et eller andet sted fra
16:07
I could use to make her laugh
together with me.
together with me.
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955182
4389
som ville få hende til at le
sammen med mig.
sammen med mig.
16:11
It was a very basic reaction
to find some reason we can do this.
to find some reason we can do this.
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3313
Det var en grundlæggende reaktion
for at finde en grund til at le.
for at finde en grund til at le.
16:14
We can laugh together.
We're going to get through this.
We're going to get through this.
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2685
Vi kan le sammen.
Vi kommer igennem dette.
Vi kommer igennem dette.
16:17
We're going to be okay.
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Vi kommer til at være ok.
16:19
And in fact, all of us
are doing this all the time.
are doing this all the time.
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2431
Faktisk gør vi det alle hele tiden.
16:21
You do it so often,
you don't even notice it.
you don't even notice it.
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Du gør det så tit,
at du ikke ænser det.
at du ikke ænser det.
16:23
Everybody underestimates
how often they laugh,
how often they laugh,
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2415
Alle undervurderer hvor tit de griner,
16:26
and you're doing something,
when you laugh with people,
when you laugh with people,
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og du gør noget når du ler sammen med folk
16:29
that's actually letting you access
a really ancient evolutionary system
a really ancient evolutionary system
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der gør at du får adgang til et ældgammelt
evolutionært system
evolutionært system
16:33
that mammals have evolved
to make and maintain social bonds,
to make and maintain social bonds,
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981949
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som pattedyr har udviklet for at danne
og vedligeholde sociale bånd
og vedligeholde sociale bånd
16:37
and clearly to regulate emotions,
to make ourselves feel better.
to make ourselves feel better.
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3390
og at regulere følelser, at få os
selv til at få det bedre.
selv til at få det bedre.
16:41
It's not something specific to humans --
it's a really ancient behavior
it's a really ancient behavior
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3390
Det er ikke specielt for mennesker --
det er en ældgammel opførsel
det er en ældgammel opførsel
16:44
which really helps us regulate how we feel
and makes us feel better.
and makes us feel better.
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der hjælper os at regulere hvad vi føler
og får os til at have det bedre.
og får os til at have det bedre.
16:48
In other words, when it comes to laughter,
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Med andre ord, når det gælder latter,
16:51
you and me, baby, ain't nothing
but mammals. (Laughter)
but mammals. (Laughter)
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2670
du og jeg, baby, er ikke andet
end pattedyr. (Latter)
end pattedyr. (Latter)
16:54
Thank you.
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Tak skal I have.
16:56
Thank you. (Applause)
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Tak. (Bifald)
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Sophie Scott - Neuroscientist, stand-up comicWhile exploring the neuroscience of speech and vocal behavior, Sophie Scott stumbled upon a surprising second vocation: making audiences laugh as a stand-up comic.
Why you should listen
As deputy director of the University College London’s Institute of Cognitive Neuroscience, Sophie Scott seeks out the neurological basis of communication, whether it’s speech or vocalized emotion.
As a pioneering researcher in the science of laughter, she’s made some unexpected discoveries -- including that rats are ticklish, and that the one tactic that’s almost guaranteed to get someone to laugh is to show them someone else laughing. But as an occasional stand-up comedian with UCL’s Bright Club, she shows that she’s no slouch at getting laughs herself.
Sophie Scott | Speaker | TED.com