TED2015
Sophie Scott: Why we laugh
Sofi Skot (Sophie Scott): Zašto se smejemo?
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Da li ste znali da su 30 puta veće šanse da ćete se nasmejati u nečijem društvu nego kada ste sami? Kognitivni neuronaučnik Sofi Skot deli ovu i druge iznenađujuće činjenice o smehu na ovom brzom, živom i, da, urebesnom putovanju kroz nauku vezanu za ovu tematiku.
Sophie Scott - Neuroscientist, stand-up comic
While exploring the neuroscience of speech and vocal behavior, Sophie Scott stumbled upon a surprising second vocation: making audiences laugh as a stand-up comic. Full bio
While exploring the neuroscience of speech and vocal behavior, Sophie Scott stumbled upon a surprising second vocation: making audiences laugh as a stand-up comic. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
Zdravo. Danas ću vam pričati o smehu
00:12
Hi. I'm going to talk
to you today about laughter,
to you today about laughter,
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00:15
and I just want to start
by thinking about the first time
by thinking about the first time
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i htela bih da počnem
tako što ću se vratiti u vreme
tako što ću se vratiti u vreme
kad sam prvi put primetila smeh.
00:18
I can ever remember noticing laughter.
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00:20
This is when I was a little girl.
I would've been about six.
I would've been about six.
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To je bilo kad sam bila mala.
Imala sam oko šest godina
Imala sam oko šest godina
i slučajno sam videla roditelje
kako se neobično ponašaju,
kako se neobično ponašaju,
00:23
And I came across my parents
doing something unusual,
doing something unusual,
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kako se smeju.
00:27
where they were laughing.
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Zaista su se mnogo smejali.
00:28
They were laughing very, very hard.
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00:30
They were lying on the floor laughing.
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Valjali su se po podu od smeha.
00:32
They were screaming with laughter.
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Vrištali su od smeha.
Nisam znala zbog čega se smeju,
ali sam želela da im se pridružim.
ali sam želela da im se pridružim.
00:34
I did not know what they were
laughing at, but I wanted in.
laughing at, but I wanted in.
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00:38
I wanted to be part of that,
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Htela sam da budem deo toga
00:40
and I kind of sat around at the edge
going, "Hoo hoo!" (Laughter)
going, "Hoo hoo!" (Laughter)
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i tako sam sela sa strane
i počela da vičem: „Hu-hu!” (Smeh)
i počela da vičem: „Hu-hu!” (Smeh)
00:43
Now, incidentally,
what they were laughing at
what they were laughing at
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Slučajno, smejali su se jednoj pesmi
00:47
was a song which people used to sing,
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koju su ljudi pevali,
00:49
which was based around
signs in toilets on trains
signs in toilets on trains
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a koja je govorila o natpisima
u toaletima u vozovima
u toaletima u vozovima
i o tome šta ste smeli
ili niste smeli da radite
ili niste smeli da radite
00:53
telling you what you could
and could not do
and could not do
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u toaletu u vozu.
00:56
in toilets on trains.
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00:57
And the thing you have to remember
about the English is, of course,
about the English is, of course,
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Morate da se setite da mi Englezi,
naravno,
naravno,
imamo vrlo sofisticiran smisao za humor.
01:00
we do have an immensely
sophisticated sense of humor.
sophisticated sense of humor.
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(Smeh)
01:03
(Laughter)
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01:04
At the time, though, I didn't
understand anything of that.
understand anything of that.
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U to vreme, nisam razumela ništa od toga.
01:07
I just cared about the laughter,
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Interesovao me je samo smeh
i zapravo me, kao neuronaučnika,
opet interesuje.
opet interesuje.
01:09
and actually, as a neuroscientist,
I've come to care about it again.
I've come to care about it again.
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Smejanje je stvarno čudno.
01:12
And it is a really weird thing to do.
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Ono što ću vam sad pustiti su primeri
01:15
What I'm going to do now
is just play some examples
is just play some examples
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pravih ljudi koji se smeju
01:17
of real human beings laughing,
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01:19
and I want you think about the sound
people make and how odd that can be,
people make and how odd that can be,
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i želim da razmislite o zvucima
koje ljudi proizvode
koje ljudi proizvode
i koliko to čudno može biti
01:22
and in fact how primitive
laughter is as a sound.
laughter is as a sound.
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i, u stvari, koliko je smeh
primitivan kao zvuk.
primitivan kao zvuk.
01:25
It's much more like an animal call
than it is like speech.
than it is like speech.
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Više liči na životinjski zov
nego na govor.
nego na govor.
01:28
So here we've got some laughter for you.
The first one is pretty joyful.
The first one is pretty joyful.
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Evo malo smeha za vas.
Prvi je prilično veseo.
Prvi je prilično veseo.
(Audio: smeh)
01:31
(Audio: Laughing)
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01:47
Now this next guy, I need him to breathe.
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Ovaj sledeći momak treba da diše.
01:50
There's a point in there
where I'm just, like,
where I'm just, like,
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U jednom trenutku, bila sam u fazonu
01:52
you've got to get some air in there, mate,
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„moraš malo i da dišeš, druže"
01:54
because he just sounds
like he's breathing out.
like he's breathing out.
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jer zvuči kao da izdiše.
01:56
(Audio: Laughing)
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(Audio: smeh)
02:05
This hasn't been edited; this is him.
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Ovo nije izmenjeno;
to je njegov smeh.
to je njegov smeh.
(Smeh)
02:08
(Audio: Laughing)
(Laughter)
(Laughter)
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Na kraju imamo jednu ženu
koja se smeje.
koja se smeje.
02:14
And finally we have --
this is a human female laughing.
this is a human female laughing.
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02:18
And laughter can take us to some pretty
odd places in terms of making noises.
odd places in terms of making noises.
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Smeh nas može odvesti do nekih
zaista čudnih mesta u smislu zvukova.
zaista čudnih mesta u smislu zvukova.
02:22
(Audio: Laughing)
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(Audio; smeh)
Ona u stvari kaže na francuskom:
„O, moje bože, šta je to?"
„O, moje bože, šta je to?"
02:41
She actually says, "Oh my God,
what is that?" in French.
what is that?" in French.
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02:44
We're all kind of with her.
I have no idea.
I have no idea.
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Svi smo pomalo uz nju.
Nemam pojma.
Nemam pojma.
Kako biste razumeli smeh,
morate proučiti delove tela
morate proučiti delove tela
02:48
Now, to understand laughter,
you have to look at a part of the body
you have to look at a part of the body
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02:51
that psychologists and neuroscientists
don't normally spend much time looking at,
don't normally spend much time looking at,
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koje psiholozi i neurolozi obično
ne proučavaju dovoljno,
ne proučavaju dovoljno,
a to je grudni koš.
02:55
which is the ribcage,
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Ne zvuči previše zanimljivo,
02:56
and it doesn't seem terribly exciting,
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ali, zapravo, koristite ga sve vreme.
02:58
but actually you're all using
your ribcage all the time.
your ribcage all the time.
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Ono što trenutno činite
sa vašim grudnim košem -
sa vašim grudnim košem -
03:00
What you're all doing
at the moment with your ribcage,
at the moment with your ribcage,
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a nemojte prestajati s tim - je disanje.
03:03
and don't stop doing it, is breathing.
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Koristite međurebarne mišiće,
mišiće između vaših rebara,
mišiće između vaših rebara,
03:05
So you use the intercostal muscles,
the muscles between your ribs,
the muscles between your ribs,
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da biste udisali i izdisali
vazduh iz pluća
vazduh iz pluća
03:08
to bring air in and out of your lungs
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kroz širenje i grčenje grudnog koša
03:10
just by expanding
and contracting your ribcage,
and contracting your ribcage,
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i ako bih stavila traku
oko spoljašnjeg dela vaših grudi,
oko spoljašnjeg dela vaših grudi,
03:12
and if I was to put a strap
around the outside of your chest
around the outside of your chest
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tzv. disajnu traku i samo posmatrala
vaše pokrete,
vaše pokrete,
03:15
called a breath belt, and just look
at that movement,
at that movement,
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videli biste prilično blag
sinusoidni pokret.
sinusoidni pokret.
03:17
you see a rather gentle sinusoidal
movement, so that's breathing.
movement, so that's breathing.
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To je disanje.
Svi to radite. Nemojte prestati.
03:21
You're all doing it. Don't stop.
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Čim počnete da govorite,
03:22
As soon as you start talking,
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počinjete da koristite disanje
na potpuno drugačiji način.
na potpuno drugačiji način.
03:24
you start using your breathing
completely differently.
completely differently.
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Ono što ja radim sada je nešto
što izgleda ovako.
što izgleda ovako.
03:26
So what I'm doing now is you see
something much more like this.
something much more like this.
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Kad pričate, koristite veoma fine pokrete
grudnog koša
grudnog koša
03:29
In talking, you use very fine
movements of the ribcage
movements of the ribcage
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da biste izbacili vazduh van.
03:32
to squeeze the air out --
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Mi smo, zapravo, jedine životinje
koje to mogu da rade.
koje to mogu da rade.
03:33
and in fact, we're the only animals
that can do this.
that can do this.
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Zato možemo da pričamo.
03:36
It's why we can talk at all.
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I pričanje i disanje imaju
smrtnog neprijatelja,
smrtnog neprijatelja,
03:37
Now, both talking and breathing
has a mortal enemy,
has a mortal enemy,
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a taj neprijatelj je smeh
03:40
and that enemy is laughter,
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03:43
because what happens when you laugh
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jer, dok se smejete,
isti ti mišići počinju
da se pravilno grče
da se pravilno grče
03:45
is those same muscles
start to contract very regularly,
start to contract very regularly,
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03:48
and you get this very marked
sort of zig-zagging,
sort of zig-zagging,
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i dobijete izraženu vrstu pomeranja
u cik-cak,
u cik-cak,
03:51
and that's just squeezing
the air out of you.
the air out of you.
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a to jednostavno istiskuje vazduh iz vas.
03:53
It literally is that basic a way
of making a sound.
of making a sound.
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To je bukvalno osnovni način
pravljenja zvuka.
pravljenja zvuka.
03:56
You could be stamping on somebody,
it's having the same effect.
it's having the same effect.
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Mogli biste gaziti po nekome -
ima isti efekat.
ima isti efekat.
Jednostavno istišćete vazduh,
03:59
You're just squeezing air out,
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a svaka od ovih kontrakcija - ha! -
daje vam zvuk.
daje vam zvuk.
04:00
and each of those contractions --
Ha! -- gives you a sound.
Ha! -- gives you a sound.
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Dok se udružene kontrakcije dešavaju,
možete dobiti grčeve,
možete dobiti grčeve,
04:03
And as the contractions run together,
you can get these spasms,
you can get these spasms,
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a tada počinju ove - (Šištanje) - stvari
da se dešavaju.
da se dešavaju.
04:06
and that's when you start getting
these -- (Wheezing) -- things happening.
these -- (Wheezing) -- things happening.
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Sjajna sam u ovome. (Smeh)
04:10
I'm brilliant at this. (Laughter)
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04:13
Now, in terms of the science of laughter,
there isn't very much,
there isn't very much,
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Vezano za nauku o smehu,
nema se mnogo šta reći,
nema se mnogo šta reći,
04:17
but it does turn out that pretty much
everything we think we know
everything we think we know
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ali ispada da je skoro sve
što mislimo da znamo
što mislimo da znamo
04:20
about laughter is wrong.
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o smehu pogrešno.
Tako, uopšte nije neuobičajeno, recimo,
04:23
So it's not at all unusual, for example,
to hear people to say
to hear people to say
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da čujemo ljude kako kažu -
04:25
humans are the only animals that laugh.
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ljudi su jedine životinje
koje se smeju.
koje se smeju.
04:28
Nietzsche thought that humans
are the only animals that laugh.
are the only animals that laugh.
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Niče je to mislio.
U stvari, nailazite na smeh
kod mnogih sisara.
kod mnogih sisara.
04:30
In fact, you find laughter
throughout the mammals.
throughout the mammals.
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Dobro je opisan i istražen kod primata,
04:33
It's been well-described
and well-observed in primates,
and well-observed in primates,
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ali nailazite na njega i kod pacova,
04:35
but you also see it in rats,
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a gde god da se sretnete sa njim -
04:37
and wherever you find it --
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04:38
humans, primates, rats --
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kod ljudi, primata, pacova -
otkrićete da se vezuje za stvari
kao što je golicanje.
kao što je golicanje.
04:40
you find it associated
with things like tickling.
with things like tickling.
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04:43
That's the same for humans.
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To je isto za sve ljude.
04:46
You find it associated with play,
and all mammals play.
and all mammals play.
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Otkrićete da je vezan za igru,
a svi se sisari igraju.
a svi se sisari igraju.
04:51
And wherever you find it,
it's associated with interactions.
it's associated with interactions.
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Gde god da naiđete na njega,
vezan je za interakcije.
vezan je za interakcije.
04:55
So Robert Provine, who has done
a lot of work on this,
a lot of work on this,
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Tako, Robert Provajn, koji je dosta
radio na ovome,
radio na ovome,
04:58
has pointed out that you are 30 times
more likely to laugh
more likely to laugh
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ukazao je na to da su 30 puta
veće šanse da ćete se nasmejati
veće šanse da ćete se nasmejati
05:02
if you are with somebody else
than if you're on your own,
than if you're on your own,
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ako ste sa nekim, nego kada ste sami,
05:06
and where you find most laughter
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a mesto gde nailazite na najviše smeha su
05:08
is in social interactions
like conversation.
like conversation.
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društvene interakcije,
kao što je razgovor.
kao što je razgovor.
05:10
So if you ask human beings,
"When do you laugh?"
"When do you laugh?"
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Tako, ako pitate ljudsko biće:
„Kada se smejete?”,
„Kada se smejete?”,
05:13
they'll talk about comedy and they'll talk
about humor and they'll talk about jokes.
about humor and they'll talk about jokes.
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pričaće o komediji, humoru i šalama.
Ako pogledate kada se smeju -
smeju se kada su sa prijateljima.
smeju se kada su sa prijateljima.
05:17
If you look at when they laugh,
they're laughing with their friends.
they're laughing with their friends.
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05:20
And when we laugh with people, we're
hardly ever actually laughing at jokes.
hardly ever actually laughing at jokes.
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Kada se smejemo sa ljudima,
jedva da se ponekad smejemo šalama.
jedva da se ponekad smejemo šalama.
05:23
You are laughing to show people
that you understand them,
that you understand them,
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Smejete se da biste pokazali ljudima
da ih razumete,
da ih razumete,
05:26
that you agree with them, that you're
part of the same group as them.
part of the same group as them.
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da se slažete sa njima,
da ste deo iste grupe kao i oni.
da ste deo iste grupe kao i oni.
Smejete se da biste pokazali
da vam se sviđaju, a možda ih i volite.
da vam se sviđaju, a možda ih i volite.
05:29
You're laughing to show
that you like them.
that you like them.
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05:31
You might even love them.
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05:33
You're doing all that at the same time
as talking to them,
as talking to them,
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Sve to radite u isto vreme
dok razgovarate sa njima,
dok razgovarate sa njima,
a smeh odrađuje puno
emocionalnog posla za vas.
emocionalnog posla za vas.
05:35
and the laughter is doing a lot
of that emotional work for you.
of that emotional work for you.
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Nešto na šta je Robert Provajn ukazao,
kao što možete videti ovde
kao što možete videti ovde
05:38
Something that Robert Provine
has pointed out, as you can see here,
has pointed out, as you can see here,
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i razlog zbog kog smo se smejali
05:41
and the reason why we were laughing
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kada smo čuli sav zabavan smeh na početku
05:43
when we heard those
funny laughs at the start,
funny laughs at the start,
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i zbog kog sam se ja smejala
kada sam naišla na svoje roditelje je
kada sam naišla na svoje roditelje je
05:45
and why I was laughing
when I found my parents laughing,
when I found my parents laughing,
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da je to u ogromnoj meri
bihevioralno zarazan efekat.
bihevioralno zarazan efekat.
05:48
is that it's an enormously
behaviorally contagious effect.
behaviorally contagious effect.
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Možete da se zarazite smehom,
05:51
You can catch laughter from somebody else,
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a veće su šanse da ćete se zaraziti
od nekog ako ga već poznajete.
od nekog ako ga već poznajete.
05:53
and you are more likely to catch laughter
off somebody else if you know them.
off somebody else if you know them.
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Dakle, određuje ga društveni kontekst.
05:57
So it's still modulated
by this social context.
by this social context.
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Morate da sklonite humor sa strane
05:59
You have to put humor to one side
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i razmišljate o društvenom značenju smeha
06:00
and think about the social
meaning of laughter
meaning of laughter
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zato što je to mesto gde se nalazi
njegovo poreklo.
njegovo poreklo.
06:03
because that's where its origins lie.
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E, sad, ja sam se veoma zainteresovala
za različite vrste smejanja,
za različite vrste smejanja,
06:05
Now, something I've got very interested in
is different kinds of laughter,
is different kinds of laughter,
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06:09
and we have some neurobiological evidence
about how human beings vocalize
about how human beings vocalize
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a postoje i neurobiološki dokazi
o tome kako ljudi vokalizuju
o tome kako ljudi vokalizuju
06:14
that suggests there might be
two kinds of laughs that we have.
two kinds of laughs that we have.
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koji nagoveštavaju da možda postoje
dve vrste smeha koje imamo.
dve vrste smeha koje imamo.
06:18
So it seems possible that the neurobiology
for helpless, involuntary laughter,
for helpless, involuntary laughter,
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Čini se da neurobiologija bespomoćnog,
nevoljnog smeha,
nevoljnog smeha,
kao smeh mojih roditelja koji leže na podu
vrišteći zbog blesave pesme,
vrišteći zbog blesave pesme,
06:23
like my parents lying on the floor
screaming about a silly song,
screaming about a silly song,
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06:26
might have a different basis to it
than some of that more polite
than some of that more polite
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može imati drugačiju osnovu
od učtivijeg društvenog smeha
od učtivijeg društvenog smeha
06:29
social laughter that you encounter,
which isn't horrible laughter,
which isn't horrible laughter,
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sa kojim se susrećete,
koji nije grozan smeh,
koji nije grozan smeh,
06:32
but it's behavior somebody is doing
as part of their communicative act to you,
as part of their communicative act to you,
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već ponašanje nekoga koji ovo radi
kao deo komunikacionog čina prema vama,
kao deo komunikacionog čina prema vama,
06:36
part of their interaction with you;
they are choosing to do this.
they are choosing to do this.
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deo njihove interakcije sa vama;
oni biraju da ovo urade.
oni biraju da ovo urade.
06:40
In our evolution, we have developed
two different ways of vocalizing.
two different ways of vocalizing.
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U našoj evoluciji, razvili smo
dve različite vrste vokalizacije.
dve različite vrste vokalizacije.
Nevoljne vokalizacije su
deo starijeg sistema
deo starijeg sistema
06:43
Involuntary vocalizations
are part of an older system
are part of an older system
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u odnosu na dobrovoljne vokalizacije
kao što je govor koji sada držim.
kao što je govor koji sada držim.
06:46
than the more voluntary vocalizations
like the speech I'm doing now.
like the speech I'm doing now.
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06:49
So we might imagine that laughter
might actually have two different roots.
might actually have two different roots.
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Možemo zamisliti da smeh zapravo
može imati dva različita korena.
može imati dva različita korena.
Proučavala sam to detaljnije.
06:53
So I've been looking at this
in more detail.
in more detail.
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Da bih to učinila, morali smo da usnimimo
ljude koji se smeju,
ljude koji se smeju,
06:55
To do this, we've had to make
recordings of people laughing,
recordings of people laughing,
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06:58
and we've had to do whatever it takes
to make people laugh,
to make people laugh,
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a morali smo da radimo štagod je potrebno
da bismo nasmejali ljude
da bismo nasmejali ljude
07:01
and we got those same people
to produce more posed, social laughter.
to produce more posed, social laughter.
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i uspelo nam je da ti isti ljudi
proizvedu veštački, društveni smeh.
proizvedu veštački, društveni smeh.
07:04
So imagine your friend told a joke,
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Zamislite da vam je prijatelj
ispričao vic,
ispričao vic,
07:05
and you're laughing because
you like your friend,
you like your friend,
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a vi se smejete jer volite prijatelja,
a ne i zaista zbog vica.
a ne i zaista zbog vica.
07:08
but not really because
the joke's all that.
the joke's all that.
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07:10
So I'm going to play you
a couple of those.
a couple of those.
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Pustiću vam par ovih.
Želim da mi kažete
da li je smeh pravi
da li je smeh pravi
07:12
I want you to tell me if you think
this laughter is real laughter,
this laughter is real laughter,
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ili mislite da je veštački.
07:15
or if you think it's posed.
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Dakle, da li je ovo nevoljan
ili dobrovoljan smeh?
ili dobrovoljan smeh?
07:16
So is this involuntary laughter
or more voluntary laughter?
or more voluntary laughter?
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07:19
(Audio: Laughing)
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(Snimak: Smeh)
Kako vam zvuči?
07:24
What does that sound like to you?
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07:26
Audience: Posed.
Sophie Scott: Posed? Posed.
Sophie Scott: Posed? Posed.
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Publika: Veštački.
Sofi Skot: Veštački? Veštački.
Sofi Skot: Veštački? Veštački.
07:28
How about this one?
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A ovaj?
(Snimak: Smeh)
07:29
(Audio: Laughing)
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(Smeh)
07:34
(Laughter)
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Najbolja sam.
07:35
I'm the best.
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(Smeh) (Aplauz)
07:37
(Laughter) (Applause)
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07:39
Not really.
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Ne stvarno.
To je bio bespomoćan smeh.
07:41
No, that was helpless laughter,
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07:43
and in fact, to record that,
all they had to do was record me
all they had to do was record me
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U stvari, da bi to usnimili, sve što je
trebalo da urade je da me usnime
trebalo da urade je da me usnime
07:47
watching one of my friends listening to
something I knew she wanted to laugh at,
something I knew she wanted to laugh at,
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kako posmatram prijateljicu dok sluša
nešto za šta znam da je može nasmejati
nešto za šta znam da je može nasmejati
07:50
and I just started doing this.
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i reagovala sam ovako.
07:52
What you find is that people
are good at telling the difference
are good at telling the difference
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Otkrivate da su ljudi dobri
u pravljenju razlike
u pravljenju razlike
između pravog i veštačkog smeha.
07:55
between real and posed laughter.
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Čini se da su to
dve različite stvari za nas.
dve različite stvari za nas.
07:57
They seem to be different things to us.
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Zanimljivo, vidite nešto slično
kod šimpanzi.
kod šimpanzi.
07:59
Interestingly, you see something
quite similar with chimpanzees.
quite similar with chimpanzees.
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Šimpanze se smeju drugačije
ako ih golicate
ako ih golicate
08:02
Chimpanzees laugh differently
if they're being tickled
if they're being tickled
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nego kada se međusobno igraju,
08:04
than if they're playing with each other,
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a može biti da vidimo
nešto slično tome ovde -
nešto slično tome ovde -
08:06
and we might be seeing
something like that here,
something like that here,
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nevoljni smeh, smeh zbog golicanja,
drugačiji od društvenog smeha.
drugačiji od društvenog smeha.
08:08
involuntary laughter, tickling laughter,
being different from social laughter.
being different from social laughter.
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Akustično su veoma različiti.
Pravi smeh je duži.
Ton je viši.
Ton je viši.
08:12
They're acoustically very different.
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08:14
The real laughs are longer.
They're higher in pitch.
They're higher in pitch.
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Kada počnete jako da se smejete,
08:16
When you start laughing hard,
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počnete da istišćete vazduh iz pluća
08:18
you start squeezing air out
from your lungs
from your lungs
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pod mnogo većim pritiskom od onog
08:20
under much higher pressures
than you could ever produce voluntarily.
than you could ever produce voluntarily.
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koji biste ikada mogli
proizvesti dobrovoljno.
proizvesti dobrovoljno.
08:23
For example, I could never
pitch my voice that high to sing.
pitch my voice that high to sing.
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Recimo, nikada ne mogu dostići
tako visoke tonove da pevam.
tako visoke tonove da pevam.
08:26
Also, you start to get these sort of
contractions and weird whistling sounds,
contractions and weird whistling sounds,
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Takođe, proizvodite kontrakcije
i čudne zvižduće tonove,
i čudne zvižduće tonove,
što znači da je iskreni smeh izuzetno lak,
08:30
all of which mean that real laughter
is extremely easy,
is extremely easy,
170
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ili osećamo da je izuzetno lak
za uočavanje.
za uočavanje.
08:32
or feels extremely easy to spot.
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Nasuprot tome, za veštački smeh
možemo misliti da zvuči malčice lažno.
možemo misliti da zvuči malčice lažno.
08:34
In contrast, posed laughter,
we might think it sounds a bit fake.
we might think it sounds a bit fake.
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U stvari nije; zapravo je vrlo važan
društveni znak.
društveni znak.
08:39
Actually, it's not, it's actually
an important social cue.
an important social cue.
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Puno ga koristimo,
biramo da se puno smejemo
biramo da se puno smejemo
08:42
We use it a lot, we're choosing
to laugh in a lot of situations,
to laugh in a lot of situations,
174
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3077
u mnogim situacijama
08:45
and it seems to be its own thing.
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i čini se da je nezavisna pojava.
08:47
So, for example, you find
nasality in posed laughter,
nasality in posed laughter,
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Na primer, nailazite na nazalnost
u veštačkom smehu,
u veštačkom smehu,
08:50
that kind of "ha ha ha ha ha" sound
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„ha ha ha ha ha” zvuk,
08:52
that you never get, you could not do,
if you were laughing involuntarily.
if you were laughing involuntarily.
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3447
koju nikada ne biste mogli da dobijete
ako se smejete nevoljno.
ako se smejete nevoljno.
08:55
So they do seem to be genuinely
these two different sorts of things.
these two different sorts of things.
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Čini se da su zaista dve različite stvari.
Odneli smo ga pod skener
da bismo videli kako mozak reaguje
da bismo videli kako mozak reaguje
08:58
We took it into the scanner
to see how brains respond
to see how brains respond
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09:01
when you hear laughter.
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kada čujete smeh.
Dok ovo radite,
to je vrlo dosadan eksperiment.
to je vrlo dosadan eksperiment.
09:02
And when you do this,
this is a really boring experiment.
this is a really boring experiment.
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2668
09:05
We just played people
real and posed laughs.
real and posed laughs.
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Samo smo puštali ljudima
pravi i veštački smeh.
pravi i veštački smeh.
09:07
We didn't tell them
it was a study on laughter.
it was a study on laughter.
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Nismo im rekli da je to
studija o smehu.
studija o smehu.
09:09
We put other sounds in there
to distract them,
to distract them,
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Stavili smo i druge zvukove
da ih zbunimo,
da ih zbunimo,
09:11
and all they're doing
is lying listening to sounds.
is lying listening to sounds.
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2387
a samo su ležali i slušali zvukove.
Nismo im rekli da išta rade.
09:14
We don't tell them to do anything.
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Bez obzira na to, kada čujete pravi
i veštački smeh,
i veštački smeh,
09:15
Nonetheless, when you hear real laughter
and when you hear posed laughter,
and when you hear posed laughter,
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09:19
the brains are responding
completely differently,
completely differently,
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2417
mozak reaguje potpuno drugačije,
značajno drugačije.
09:21
significantly differently.
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1432
Ono što vidite u područjima
u plavoj boji,
u plavoj boji,
09:23
What you see in the regions in blue,
which lies in auditory cortex,
which lies in auditory cortex,
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koja se nalazi u auditivnom korteksu su
09:26
are the brain areas that respond
more to the real laughs,
more to the real laughs,
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2689
područja mozga koja više reaguju
na pravi smeh,
na pravi smeh,
09:29
and what seems to be the case,
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1441
a čini se da je slučaj da,
09:30
when you hear somebody
laughing involuntarily,
laughing involuntarily,
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kada čujete nekoga da se nevoljno smeje,
09:33
you hear sounds you would never
hear in any other context.
hear in any other context.
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2727
čujete zvukove koje nikada ne biste čuli
u bilo kom drugom kontekstu.
u bilo kom drugom kontekstu.
09:35
It's very unambiguous,
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1086
To je nedvosmisleno
09:36
and it seems to be associated
with greater auditory processing
with greater auditory processing
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i čini se da je vezano
za pojačanu slušnu obradu
za pojačanu slušnu obradu
09:39
of these novel sounds.
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novih zvukova.
Suprotno tome, kada čujete nekoga
da se veštački smeje,
da se veštački smeje,
09:41
In contrast, when you hear somebody
laughing in a posed way,
laughing in a posed way,
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3809
09:45
what you see are these regions in pink,
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2042
vidite da su ovi regioni roze boje,
09:47
which are occupying brain areas
associated with mentalizing,
associated with mentalizing,
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2879
a koji zauzimaju područja mozga
koja su povezana sa mentalizacijom,
koja su povezana sa mentalizacijom,
09:50
thinking about what
somebody else is thinking.
somebody else is thinking.
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razmišljanjem o tome šta neko drugi misli.
09:52
And I think what that means is,
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1540
Mislim da to znači da,
09:53
even if you're having your brain scanned,
which is completely boring
which is completely boring
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3197
iako vam se mozak skenira,
što je apsolutno dosadno
što je apsolutno dosadno
i ne posebno interesantno,
09:56
and not very interesting,
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kada čujete da neko proizvodi
„a ha ha ha”,
„a ha ha ha”,
09:58
when you hear somebody going,
"A ha ha ha ha ha,"
"A ha ha ha ha ha,"
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pokušavate da shvatite zašto se smeju.
10:00
you're trying to work out
why they're laughing.
why they're laughing.
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10:02
Laughter is always meaningful.
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Smeh uvek ima značenje.
10:04
You are always trying
to understand it in context,
to understand it in context,
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Uvek pokušavate da ga
razumete u kontekstu;
razumete u kontekstu;
10:06
even if, as far as you are concerned,
at that point in time,
at that point in time,
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čak i ako, što se vas tiče,
u tom trenutku
u tom trenutku
nije nužno vezan za vas,
10:09
it has not necessarily
anything to do with you,
anything to do with you,
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i dalje želite da znate
zašto se ti ljudi smeju.
zašto se ti ljudi smeju.
10:11
you still want to know
why those people are laughing.
why those people are laughing.
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Imali smo priliku da pogledamo
kako ljudi čuju iskreni i veštački smeh
kako ljudi čuju iskreni i veštački smeh
10:14
Now, we've had the opportunity to look
at how people hear real and posed laughter
at how people hear real and posed laughter
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po različitim starosnim grupama.
10:18
across the age range.
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Ono je onlajn eksperiment koji smo
sproveli sa „Kraljevskim društvom”
sproveli sa „Kraljevskim društvom”
10:19
So this is an online experiment
we ran with the Royal Society,
we ran with the Royal Society,
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2931
10:21
and here we just asked people
two questions.
two questions.
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i ljudima smo samo postavljali
dva pitanja.
dva pitanja.
10:24
First of all, they heard some laughs,
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Kao prvo, slušali su smeh
i morali da kažu koliko im
iskreno ili veštački zvuči.
iskreno ili veštački zvuči.
10:25
and they had to say, how real
or posed do these laughs sound?
or posed do these laughs sound?
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Iskreni smeh je prikazan crvenom bojom,
a veštački - plavom.
a veštački - plavom.
10:28
The real laughs are shown in red
and the posed laughs are shown in blue.
and the posed laughs are shown in blue.
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3457
Ovde vidite brzi početak.
10:32
What you see is there is a rapid onset.
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Sa godinama postajete sve bolji
u uočavanju iskrenog smeha.
u uočavanju iskrenog smeha.
10:34
As you get older, you get better
and better at spotting real laughter.
and better at spotting real laughter.
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3352
10:37
So six-year-olds are at chance,
they can't really hear the difference.
they can't really hear the difference.
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3325
Šestogodišnjaci nagađaju
i ne mogu zaista čuti razliku.
i ne mogu zaista čuti razliku.
Kako starimo, postajemo bolji u tome,
10:40
By the time you are older, you get better,
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2152
10:43
but interestingly, you do not hit
peak performance in this dataset
peak performance in this dataset
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3622
ali, zanimljivo, u ovoj grupi podataka
ne dostižemo svoj vrhunac
ne dostižemo svoj vrhunac
10:46
until you are in your
late 30s and early 40s.
late 30s and early 40s.
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do kasnih tridesetih
i ranih četrdesetih godina.
i ranih četrdesetih godina.
10:50
You don't understand laughter fully
by the time you hit puberty.
by the time you hit puberty.
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3041
Ne razumete smeh u potpunosti
dok ne stignete do puberteta.
dok ne stignete do puberteta.
10:53
You don't understand laughter fully
by the time your brain has matured
by the time your brain has matured
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Ne razumete smeh u potpunosti
dok vaš mozak ne sazri
dok vaš mozak ne sazri
pri kraju tinejdžerskih godina.
10:56
at the end of your teens.
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1394
Učite o smehu kroz ceo vaš život
kao odrasle osobe.
kao odrasle osobe.
10:58
You're learning about laughter
throughout your entire early adult life.
throughout your entire early adult life.
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3798
11:01
If we turn the question around and now say
not, what does the laughter sound like
not, what does the laughter sound like
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3802
Ako preformulišemo pitanje i kažemo
ne kako smeh zvuči,
ne kako smeh zvuči,
11:05
in terms of being real
or posed, but we say,
or posed, but we say,
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2052
u smislu da li je pravi ili veštački,
već kažemo
već kažemo
11:07
how much does this laughter
make you want to laugh,
make you want to laugh,
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koliko vas ovaj smeh zasmejava,
koliko je zarazan po vas,
vidimo drugačiji profil.
vidimo drugačiji profil.
11:10
how contagious is this laughter to you,
we see a different profile.
we see a different profile.
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3215
Ovde, što ste mlađi,
11:13
And here, the younger you are,
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1503
11:14
the more you want to join in
when you hear laughter.
when you hear laughter.
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2434
više želite da se pridružite
kada čujete smeh.
kada čujete smeh.
11:17
Remember me laughing with my parents
when I had no idea what was going on.
when I had no idea what was going on.
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3493
Sećate se mog smeha sa roditeljima
iako nisam znala šta se dešava.
iako nisam znala šta se dešava.
Stvarno možete da vidite ovo.
11:20
You really can see this.
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1226
11:22
Now everybody, young and old,
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1395
Svi, mladi i stari,
nalaze da je pravi smeh zarazniji
od veštačkog smeha,
od veštačkog smeha,
11:23
finds the real laughs more contagious
than the posed laughs,
than the posed laughs,
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2845
ali, kako starimo,
postaje nam manje zarazan.
postaje nam manje zarazan.
11:26
but as you get older, it all becomes
less contagious to you.
less contagious to you.
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2910
Ili postajemo mrzovoljni sa godinama,
11:29
Now, either we're all just becoming
really grumpy as we get older,
really grumpy as we get older,
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4204
ili može značiti da što više razumete smeh
11:33
or it may mean that as you
understand laughter better,
understand laughter better,
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2929
11:36
and you are getting better at doing that,
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2089
i postajete bolji u tome,
11:38
you need more than just
hearing people laugh to want to laugh.
hearing people laugh to want to laugh.
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2946
treba vam više od ljudi koji se smeju
da biste želeli da se smejete.
11:41
You need the social stuff there.
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Potreban je društveni kontekst.
11:43
So we've got a very interesting behavior
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Dobili smo vrlo interesantno ponašanje
11:45
about which a lot of our
lay assumptions are incorrect,
lay assumptions are incorrect,
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o kom su mnoge naše
laičke pretpostavke netačne,
laičke pretpostavke netačne,
11:49
but I'm coming to see that actually
there's even more to laughter
there's even more to laughter
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ali počinjem da shvatam
da je smeh nešto više
da je smeh nešto više
11:52
than it's an important social emotion
we should look at,
we should look at,
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od važne društvene emocije
koju treba posmatrati
koju treba posmatrati
11:55
because it turns out
people are phenomenally nuanced
people are phenomenally nuanced
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jer se ispostavilo
da su ljudi jako osetljivi
da su ljudi jako osetljivi
11:58
in terms of how we use laughter.
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po pitanju korišćenja smeha.
12:00
There's a really lovely
set of studies coming out
set of studies coming out
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Postoji sjajna grupa studija koja dolazi
12:02
from Robert Levenson's lab in California,
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iz laboratorije Roberta Levensona
u Kaliforniji,
u Kaliforniji,
12:04
where he's doing
a longitudinal study with couples.
a longitudinal study with couples.
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u kojoj sprovodi
longitudinalnu studiju sa parovima.
longitudinalnu studiju sa parovima.
12:07
He gets married couples,
men and women, into the lab,
men and women, into the lab,
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Dovodi venčane parove,
muškarce i žene, u laboratoriju
muškarce i žene, u laboratoriju
12:09
and he gives them
stressful conversations to have
stressful conversations to have
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i daje im da vode stresni razgovor
12:12
while he wires them up to a polygraph
so he can see them becoming stressed.
so he can see them becoming stressed.
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dok su povezani za poligraf,
pa može da vidi kako postaju uznemireni.
pa može da vidi kako postaju uznemireni.
12:15
So you've got the two of them in there,
and he'll say to the husband,
and he'll say to the husband,
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Znači, imate njih dvoje tamo,
a on bi rekao mužu:
a on bi rekao mužu:
„Recite mi šta vaša žena radi
što vas iritira.”
što vas iritira.”
12:18
"Tell me something that your wife does
that irritates you."
that irritates you."
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Odmah vidite -
12:21
And what you see is immediately --
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samo zamislite na trenutak
vas i vašeg partnera -
vas i vašeg partnera -
12:23
just run that one through your head
briefly, you and your partner --
briefly, you and your partner --
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možete zamisliti da svi
postaju uznemireniji čim to krene.
postaju uznemireniji čim to krene.
12:26
you can imagine everybody gets a bit
more stressed as soon as that starts.
more stressed as soon as that starts.
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Možete fizički da vidite da ljudi
postaju uznemireniji.
postaju uznemireniji.
12:30
You can see physically,
people become more stressed.
people become more stressed.
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12:33
What he finds is that the couples
who manage that feeling of stress
who manage that feeling of stress
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On otkriva da parovi koji prevaziđu
osećaj uznemirenosti uz smeh,
osećaj uznemirenosti uz smeh,
12:39
with laughter,
positive emotions like laughter,
positive emotions like laughter,
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pozitivne emocije kao što je smeh,
12:42
not only immediately become less stressed,
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ne samo da odmah postaju manje uznemireni,
već se može uočiti
da se fizički osećaju bolje,
da se fizički osećaju bolje,
12:46
they can see them
physically feeling better,
physically feeling better,
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12:48
they're dealing with this
unpleasant situation better together,
unpleasant situation better together,
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nose se sa ovom neprijatnom situacijom
bolje zajedno,
bolje zajedno,
a to su i parovi koji izveštavaju
12:52
they are also the couples that report
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o visokim nivoima zadovoljstva
u svojoj vezi
u svojoj vezi
12:53
high levels of satisfaction
in their relationship
in their relationship
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i koji ostaju duže zajedno.
12:56
and they stay together for longer.
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12:57
So in fact, when you look
at close relationships,
at close relationships,
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U stvari, kada pažljivije pogledamo
intimne veze,
intimne veze,
13:00
laughter is a phenomenally useful index
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smeh je fenomenalno koristan pokazatelj
13:02
of how people are regulating
their emotions together.
their emotions together.
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kako ljudi zajedno regulišu emocije.
13:04
We're not just emitting it at each other
to show that we like each other,
to show that we like each other,
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Ne emitujemo ga samo jedni na druge
da bismo pokazali
da bismo pokazali
13:08
we're making ourselves
feel better together.
feel better together.
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da se sviđamo jedni drugima;
činimo da se osećamo bolje.
13:10
Now, I don't think this is going
to be limited to romantic relationships.
to be limited to romantic relationships.
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Ne mislim da je ovo ograničeno
samo na ljubavne veze.
samo na ljubavne veze.
13:13
I think this is probably
going to be a characteristic
going to be a characteristic
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Mislim da je ovo osobina
intimnih emotivnih veza kakve možete
ostvariti sa prijateljima,
ostvariti sa prijateljima,
13:16
of close emotional relationships
such as you might have with friends,
such as you might have with friends,
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što objašnjava moj sledeći video,
13:19
which explains my next clip,
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Jutjub video o mladom momku
iz bivše Istočne Nemačke
iz bivše Istočne Nemačke
13:21
which is of a YouTube video of some
young men in the former East Germany
young men in the former East Germany
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i stvaranju videa koji bi trebalo
da promoviše njihov hevi-metal bend.
da promoviše njihov hevi-metal bend.
13:24
on making a video to promote
their heavy metal band,
their heavy metal band,
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13:28
and it's extremely macho,
and the mood is very serious,
and the mood is very serious,
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Izuzetno je mačo,
a raspoloženje je veoma ozbiljno.
a raspoloženje je veoma ozbiljno.
13:31
and I want you to notice
what happens in terms of laughter
what happens in terms of laughter
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Želim da sada primetite šta se dešava
po pitanju smeha
po pitanju smeha
kada stvari krenu po zlu
13:34
when things go wrong
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i koliko se to brzo dešava
i kako to menja raspoloženje.
i kako to menja raspoloženje.
13:36
and how quickly that happens,
and how that changes the mood.
and how that changes the mood.
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Hladno mu je. Samo što se nije okvasio.
13:41
He's cold. He's about to get wet.
He's got swimming trunks on,
He's got swimming trunks on,
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Na sebi ima kupaći, ima peškir.
13:44
got a towel.
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Led.
13:48
Ice.
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Šta može da se desi?
13:50
What might possibly happen?
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13:54
Video starts.
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Počinje video.
13:57
Serious mood.
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Ozbiljno raspoloženje.
14:06
And his friends are already laughing.
They are already laughing, hard.
They are already laughing, hard.
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Njegovi prijatelji se već smeju,
i to jako.
i to jako.
14:11
He's not laughing yet.
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On se još ne smeje.
(Smeh)
14:14
(Laughter)
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Sad i on kreće
14:16
He's starting to go now.
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i sad već svi pucaju od smeha.
14:25
And now they're all off.
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(Smeh)
14:27
(Laughter)
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Na podu su.
14:44
They're on the floor.
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(Smeh)
14:46
(Laughter)
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14:55
The thing I really like about that
is it's all very serious
is it's all very serious
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Stvarno mi se sviđa što je
sve veoma ozbiljno
sve veoma ozbiljno
14:59
until he jumps onto the ice, and
as soon as he doesn't go through the ice,
as soon as he doesn't go through the ice,
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dok ne skoči na led i čim skoči,
kad ne propadne kroz led,
kad ne propadne kroz led,
15:02
but also there isn't blood
and bone everywhere,
and bone everywhere,
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ali nema ni krvi ni kostiju svugde,
15:05
his friends start laughing.
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njegovi prijatelji počinju da se smeju.
15:06
And imagine if that had played him out
with him standing there going,
with him standing there going,
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Zamislite da je stao i rekao:
„Ozbiljno, Henrih, mislim da je
ovo slomljeno.”
ovo slomljeno.”
15:09
"No seriously, Heinrich,
I think this is broken,"
I think this is broken,"
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Ne bismo uživali u ovom snimku.
Bilo bi uznemiravajuće.
Bilo bi uznemiravajuće.
15:12
we wouldn't enjoy watching that.
That would be stressful.
That would be stressful.
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Ili, da trči okolo sa slomljenom nogom
smejući se,
smejući se,
15:15
Or if he was running around
with a visibly broken leg laughing,
with a visibly broken leg laughing,
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a njegovi prijatelji viču:
„Henrih, treba da idemo u bolnicu”,
„Henrih, treba da idemo u bolnicu”,
15:18
and his friends are going, "Heinrich, I
think we need to go to the hospital now,"
think we need to go to the hospital now,"
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ni to ne bi bilo smešno.
Činjenica da smeh funkcioniše,
15:22
that also wouldn't be funny.
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da ga dovodi iz bolne, ponižavajuće,
teške situacije
teške situacije
15:23
The fact that the laughter works,
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15:25
it gets him from a painful,
embarrassing, difficult situation,
embarrassing, difficult situation,
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u smešnu situaciju
je ono u čemu uživamo ovde,
je ono u čemu uživamo ovde,
15:28
into a funny situation, into what we're
actually enjoying there,
actually enjoying there,
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a mislim da je to stvarno
interesantna primena
interesantna primena
i zapravo se dešava sve vreme.
15:31
and I think that's
a really interesting use,
a really interesting use,
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Na primer, sećam se
da se nešto slično desilo
da se nešto slično desilo
15:33
and it's actually happening all the time.
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15:35
For example, I can remember
something like this happening
something like this happening
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na sahrani mog oca.
Nismo skakali po ledu
u kupaćim kostimima.
u kupaćim kostimima.
15:37
at my father's funeral.
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15:39
We weren't jumping around
on the ice in our underpants.
on the ice in our underpants.
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Nismo Kanađani.
15:41
We're not Canadian.
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(Smeh) (Aplauz)
15:44
(Laughter) (Applause)
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15:46
These events are always difficult, I had
a relative who was being a bit difficult,
a relative who was being a bit difficult,
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Ovi događaji su uvek teški,
jedan rođak je bio malo naporan,
jedan rođak je bio malo naporan,
moja mama je neraspoložena
15:50
my mum was not in a good place,
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i sećam se da sam,
pre nego da je sve krenulo,
pre nego da je sve krenulo,
15:52
and I can remember finding myself
just before the whole thing started
just before the whole thing started
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pričala priču o nečemu
iz serije iz sedamdesetih
iz serije iz sedamdesetih
15:55
telling this story about something
that happened in a 1970s sitcom,
that happened in a 1970s sitcom,
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i baš sam mislila u to vreme
da ne znam zašto to radim,
da ne znam zašto to radim,
15:59
and I just thought at the time,
I don't know why I'm doing this,
I don't know why I'm doing this,
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16:02
and what I realized I was doing
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a onda sam shvatila
da sam smišljala nešto iz nečega
16:04
was I was coming up with
something from somewhere
something from somewhere
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16:07
I could use to make her laugh
together with me.
together with me.
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da bih je mogla naterati
da se nasmeje sa mnom.
da se nasmeje sa mnom.
To je osnovna nagonska reakcija
da nađemo razlog da mi to možemo.
da nađemo razlog da mi to možemo.
16:11
It was a very basic reaction
to find some reason we can do this.
to find some reason we can do this.
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16:14
We can laugh together.
We're going to get through this.
We're going to get through this.
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Možemo da se smejemo zajedno.
Proći ćemo kroz ovo.
Proći ćemo kroz ovo.
Bićemo dobro.
16:17
We're going to be okay.
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U stvari, svi radimo ovo stalno.
16:19
And in fact, all of us
are doing this all the time.
are doing this all the time.
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Radite to toliko često
da i ne primećujete.
da i ne primećujete.
16:21
You do it so often,
you don't even notice it.
you don't even notice it.
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16:23
Everybody underestimates
how often they laugh,
how often they laugh,
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Svi potcenjuju koliko se često smeju,
a radite nešto dok se smejete
sa drugim ljudima
sa drugim ljudima
16:26
and you're doing something,
when you laugh with people,
when you laugh with people,
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što vam zapravo dozvoljava pristup
drevnom evolucionom sistemu
drevnom evolucionom sistemu
16:29
that's actually letting you access
a really ancient evolutionary system
a really ancient evolutionary system
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koji su sisari razvili da bi stvorili
i održali društvene veze
i održali društvene veze
16:33
that mammals have evolved
to make and maintain social bonds,
to make and maintain social bonds,
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i da, naravno, regulišu emocije
da bi učinili da se osećaju bolje.
da bi učinili da se osećaju bolje.
16:37
and clearly to regulate emotions,
to make ourselves feel better.
to make ourselves feel better.
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To nije nešto svojstveno samo ljudima -
to je zaista drevno ponašanje
to je zaista drevno ponašanje
16:41
It's not something specific to humans --
it's a really ancient behavior
it's a really ancient behavior
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koje nam stvarno pomaže
da regulišemo osećanja
da regulišemo osećanja
16:44
which really helps us regulate how we feel
and makes us feel better.
and makes us feel better.
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i koje čini da se osećamo bolje.
Drugim rečima, kada se radi o smehu,
16:48
In other words, when it comes to laughter,
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ti i ja, dušo, nismo ništa drugo
do sisari. (Smeh)
do sisari. (Smeh)
16:51
you and me, baby, ain't nothing
but mammals. (Laughter)
but mammals. (Laughter)
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Hvala vam.
16:54
Thank you.
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16:56
Thank you. (Applause)
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Hvala vam. (Aplauz)
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Sophie Scott - Neuroscientist, stand-up comicWhile exploring the neuroscience of speech and vocal behavior, Sophie Scott stumbled upon a surprising second vocation: making audiences laugh as a stand-up comic.
Why you should listen
As deputy director of the University College London’s Institute of Cognitive Neuroscience, Sophie Scott seeks out the neurological basis of communication, whether it’s speech or vocalized emotion.
As a pioneering researcher in the science of laughter, she’s made some unexpected discoveries -- including that rats are ticklish, and that the one tactic that’s almost guaranteed to get someone to laugh is to show them someone else laughing. But as an occasional stand-up comedian with UCL’s Bright Club, she shows that she’s no slouch at getting laughs herself.
Sophie Scott | Speaker | TED.com