TED2015
Sophie Scott: Why we laugh
Sophie Scott: Zašto se smijemo
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Jeste li znali da smo trideset puta skloniji smijati se ukoliko smo u nečijem društvu, u usporedbi sa situacijama kada smo sami? Kognitivna neuroznanstvenica Sophie Scott govori o ovoj i drugim iznenađujućim činjenicama o smijehu u ubrzanom, napetom i nadasve duhovitom presjeku znanosti koja se krije iza ove teme.
Sophie Scott - Neuroscientist, stand-up comic
While exploring the neuroscience of speech and vocal behavior, Sophie Scott stumbled upon a surprising second vocation: making audiences laugh as a stand-up comic. Full bio
While exploring the neuroscience of speech and vocal behavior, Sophie Scott stumbled upon a surprising second vocation: making audiences laugh as a stand-up comic. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:12
Hi. I'm going to talk
to you today about laughter,
to you today about laughter,
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Pozdrav, danas ću vam govoriti o smijehu.
00:15
and I just want to start
by thinking about the first time
by thinking about the first time
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Počet ću prisjećajući se prvog puta
00:18
I can ever remember noticing laughter.
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kad sam počela primjećivati smijeh.
00:20
This is when I was a little girl.
I would've been about six.
I would've been about six.
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Bilo je to kad sam bila djevojčica,
imala sam šest godina.
imala sam šest godina.
00:23
And I came across my parents
doing something unusual,
doing something unusual,
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Zatekla sam roditelje
usred neobične radnje -
usred neobične radnje -
00:27
where they were laughing.
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smijali su se.
00:28
They were laughing very, very hard.
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I to jako.
00:30
They were lying on the floor laughing.
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Valjali su se po podu od smijeha.
00:32
They were screaming with laughter.
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Vrištali su od smijeha.
00:34
I did not know what they were
laughing at, but I wanted in.
laughing at, but I wanted in.
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Nisam znala čemu se smiju,
ali i ja sam im se htjela pridružiti.
ali i ja sam im se htjela pridružiti.
00:38
I wanted to be part of that,
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Htjela sam biti dio toga,
00:40
and I kind of sat around at the edge
going, "Hoo hoo!" (Laughter)
going, "Hoo hoo!" (Laughter)
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pa sam sjela sa strane
i počela govoriti: "Hu hu!" (Smijeh)
i počela govoriti: "Hu hu!" (Smijeh)
00:43
Now, incidentally,
what they were laughing at
what they were laughing at
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Smijali su se
00:47
was a song which people used to sing,
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pjesmi koja se nekoć pjevala,
00:49
which was based around
signs in toilets on trains
signs in toilets on trains
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a bila je inspirirana znakovima
u toaletima na vlakovima
u toaletima na vlakovima
00:53
telling you what you could
and could not do
and could not do
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koji su govorili što smiješ,
a što ne smiješ raditi
a što ne smiješ raditi
00:56
in toilets on trains.
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u toaletima na vlakovima.
00:57
And the thing you have to remember
about the English is, of course,
about the English is, of course,
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Ono što morate imati na umu
kad govorimo o Englezima jest to da
kad govorimo o Englezima jest to da
01:00
we do have an immensely
sophisticated sense of humor.
sophisticated sense of humor.
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imamo krajnje sofisticiran
smisao za humor.
smisao za humor.
01:03
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
01:04
At the time, though, I didn't
understand anything of that.
understand anything of that.
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Doduše, u to vrijeme ja to nisam znala.
01:07
I just cared about the laughter,
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Zanimao me samo smijeh
01:09
and actually, as a neuroscientist,
I've come to care about it again.
I've come to care about it again.
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i kao neuroznanstvenica,
opet sam se zainteresirala za njega.
opet sam se zainteresirala za njega.
01:12
And it is a really weird thing to do.
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To je zaista neobična aktivnost.
01:15
What I'm going to do now
is just play some examples
is just play some examples
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Sada ću vam pustiti neke primjere
01:17
of real human beings laughing,
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smijeha pravih ljudskih bića
01:19
and I want you think about the sound
people make and how odd that can be,
people make and how odd that can be,
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i želim da razmišljate o tom zvuku,
o tome koliko čudan on može biti
o tome koliko čudan on može biti
01:22
and in fact how primitive
laughter is as a sound.
laughter is as a sound.
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i o tome koliko je to primitivan zvuk.
01:25
It's much more like an animal call
than it is like speech.
than it is like speech.
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Više nalikuje životinjskom zovu
nego ljudskom govoru.
nego ljudskom govoru.
01:28
So here we've got some laughter for you.
The first one is pretty joyful.
The first one is pretty joyful.
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Evo nekolicine smjehova.
Prvi je prilično radostan.
Prvi je prilično radostan.
01:31
(Audio: Laughing)
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(Zvuk: Smijeh)
01:47
Now this next guy, I need him to breathe.
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Sljedeći tip trebao bi malo udahnuti.
01:50
There's a point in there
where I'm just, like,
where I'm just, like,
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U određenom trenutku zaista pomislim
01:52
you've got to get some air in there, mate,
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da treba udahnuti koji put
01:54
because he just sounds
like he's breathing out.
like he's breathing out.
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jer zvuči kao da samo izdiše.
01:56
(Audio: Laughing)
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(Zvuk: Smijeh)
02:05
This hasn't been edited; this is him.
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Video nije uređivan: to je on.
02:08
(Audio: Laughing)
(Laughter)
(Laughter)
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(Zvuk: Smijeh)
(Smijeh)
(Smijeh)
02:14
And finally we have --
this is a human female laughing.
this is a human female laughing.
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Na kraju imamo smijeh jedne žene.
02:18
And laughter can take us to some pretty
odd places in terms of making noises.
odd places in terms of making noises.
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Po pitanju zvukova smijeh nas može odvesti
na neka krajnje neobična mjesta.
na neka krajnje neobična mjesta.
02:22
(Audio: Laughing)
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(Zvuk: Smijeh)
02:41
She actually says, "Oh my God,
what is that?" in French.
what is that?" in French.
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Govori na francuskom:
"Oh, Bože, što je to?"
"Oh, Bože, što je to?"
02:44
We're all kind of with her.
I have no idea.
I have no idea.
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Svi se na neki način
slažemo s njom. Nemam pojma.
slažemo s njom. Nemam pojma.
02:48
Now, to understand laughter,
you have to look at a part of the body
you have to look at a part of the body
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Kako bismo razumjeli smijeh,
moramo promotriti dio tijela
moramo promotriti dio tijela
02:51
that psychologists and neuroscientists
don't normally spend much time looking at,
don't normally spend much time looking at,
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koji psiholozi i neuroznanstvenici
inače zanemaruju,
inače zanemaruju,
02:55
which is the ribcage,
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a to je prsni koš.
02:56
and it doesn't seem terribly exciting,
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Ne djeluje pretjerano zanimljivo,
02:58
but actually you're all using
your ribcage all the time.
your ribcage all the time.
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ali svi ga mi cijelo vrijeme koristimo.
03:00
What you're all doing
at the moment with your ribcage,
at the moment with your ribcage,
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Ono što trenutno s njime radimo
03:03
and don't stop doing it, is breathing.
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i ne prestajemo raditi jest disanje.
03:05
So you use the intercostal muscles,
the muscles between your ribs,
the muscles between your ribs,
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Koristimo međurebrene mišiće,
mišiće između rebara
mišiće između rebara
03:08
to bring air in and out of your lungs
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kako bi zrak ušao i izašao iz pluća
03:10
just by expanding
and contracting your ribcage,
and contracting your ribcage,
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proširivanjem i skupljanjem prsnog koša.
03:12
and if I was to put a strap
around the outside of your chest
around the outside of your chest
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Da stavim remen
oko vanjskog dijela vaših prsa,
oko vanjskog dijela vaših prsa,
03:15
called a breath belt, and just look
at that movement,
at that movement,
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remen za disanje, i promatrala taj pokret,
03:17
you see a rather gentle sinusoidal
movement, so that's breathing.
movement, so that's breathing.
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vidjeli biste lagani
sinusni pokret - disanje.
sinusni pokret - disanje.
03:21
You're all doing it. Don't stop.
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Svi to radite. Nemojte prestati.
03:22
As soon as you start talking,
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Čim počnemo govoriti,
03:24
you start using your breathing
completely differently.
completely differently.
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dišemo potpuno drugačije.
03:26
So what I'm doing now is you see
something much more like this.
something much more like this.
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Sada radim nešto što je više nalik ovome.
03:29
In talking, you use very fine
movements of the ribcage
movements of the ribcage
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Dok govorimo, prsni se koš
gotovo neprimjetno pokreće
gotovo neprimjetno pokreće
03:32
to squeeze the air out --
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ne bi li istisnuo zrak -
03:33
and in fact, we're the only animals
that can do this.
that can do this.
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mi smo jedine životinje koje to mogu.
03:36
It's why we can talk at all.
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Zato možemo i govoriti.
03:37
Now, both talking and breathing
has a mortal enemy,
has a mortal enemy,
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I govor i disanje imaju
zajedničkog zakletog neprijatelja -
zajedničkog zakletog neprijatelja -
03:40
and that enemy is laughter,
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smijeh.
03:43
because what happens when you laugh
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Kad se smijemo,
03:45
is those same muscles
start to contract very regularly,
start to contract very regularly,
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ti se isti mišići počinju
marljivo stiskati
marljivo stiskati
03:48
and you get this very marked
sort of zig-zagging,
sort of zig-zagging,
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i dobijemo ovo vrludanje
03:51
and that's just squeezing
the air out of you.
the air out of you.
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koje iz nas istiskuje zrak.
03:53
It literally is that basic a way
of making a sound.
of making a sound.
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Taj je zvuk uistinu toliko jednostavan.
03:56
You could be stamping on somebody,
it's having the same effect.
it's having the same effect.
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Da gazite po nekome,
dobili biste isti rezultat.
dobili biste isti rezultat.
03:59
You're just squeezing air out,
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Jednostavno istiskujete zrak,
04:00
and each of those contractions --
Ha! -- gives you a sound.
Ha! -- gives you a sound.
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a svaka kontrakcija -ha!- proizvodi zvuk.
04:03
And as the contractions run together,
you can get these spasms,
you can get these spasms,
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Kako se te kontrakcije uparuju,
možete dobiti napadaje,
možete dobiti napadaje,
04:06
and that's when you start getting
these -- (Wheezing) -- things happening.
these -- (Wheezing) -- things happening.
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a to se dogodi kad počnete hroptati.
04:10
I'm brilliant at this. (Laughter)
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Super mi to ide. (Smijeh)
04:13
Now, in terms of the science of laughter,
there isn't very much,
there isn't very much,
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Što se tiče znanosti smijeha,
nema puno za reći,
nema puno za reći,
04:17
but it does turn out that pretty much
everything we think we know
everything we think we know
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ali ispada da gotovo sve
što mislimo da znamo
što mislimo da znamo
04:20
about laughter is wrong.
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o smijehu jest pogrešno.
04:23
So it's not at all unusual, for example,
to hear people to say
to hear people to say
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Primjerice, nije neuobičajeno
čuti ljude kako govore
čuti ljude kako govore
04:25
humans are the only animals that laugh.
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da su ljudi jedine životinje što se smiju.
04:28
Nietzsche thought that humans
are the only animals that laugh.
are the only animals that laugh.
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Nietzsche je držao da su ljudi
jedine životinje koje se smiju.
jedine životinje koje se smiju.
04:30
In fact, you find laughter
throughout the mammals.
throughout the mammals.
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No smijeh je moguće uočiti
kod mnogih sisavaca.
kod mnogih sisavaca.
04:33
It's been well-described
and well-observed in primates,
and well-observed in primates,
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Taj je fenomen detaljno
opisan i uočen u primata,
opisan i uočen u primata,
04:35
but you also see it in rats,
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ali i u štakora.
04:37
and wherever you find it --
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Gdje god na njega naišli -
04:38
humans, primates, rats --
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kod ljudi, primata, štakora -
04:40
you find it associated
with things like tickling.
with things like tickling.
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uvijek je povezan
sa stvarima poput škakljanja.
sa stvarima poput škakljanja.
04:43
That's the same for humans.
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Tako je i kod ljudi.
04:46
You find it associated with play,
and all mammals play.
and all mammals play.
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Povezan je s igrom,
a svi se sisavci igraju.
a svi se sisavci igraju.
04:51
And wherever you find it,
it's associated with interactions.
it's associated with interactions.
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Gdje god na njega naišli,
povezan je s interakcijom.
povezan je s interakcijom.
04:55
So Robert Provine, who has done
a lot of work on this,
a lot of work on this,
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Robert Provine, čovjek koji je
to intenzivno proučavao,
to intenzivno proučavao,
04:58
has pointed out that you are 30 times
more likely to laugh
more likely to laugh
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ukazao je na to da smo
30 puta skloniji smijati se
30 puta skloniji smijati se
05:02
if you are with somebody else
than if you're on your own,
than if you're on your own,
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ukoliko smo s nekim, u usporedbi
sa situacijama kada smo sami.
sa situacijama kada smo sami.
05:06
and where you find most laughter
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Na smijeh najčešće nailazimo
05:08
is in social interactions
like conversation.
like conversation.
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u društvenim interakcijama
poput razgovora.
poput razgovora.
05:10
So if you ask human beings,
"When do you laugh?"
"When do you laugh?"
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Ako ljude upitamo kada se smiju,
05:13
they'll talk about comedy and they'll talk
about humor and they'll talk about jokes.
about humor and they'll talk about jokes.
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pričat će vam o komedijama,
humoru i vicevima.
humoru i vicevima.
05:17
If you look at when they laugh,
they're laughing with their friends.
they're laughing with their friends.
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Ako promatramo kada se smiju,
smiju se među prijateljima,
smiju se među prijateljima,
05:20
And when we laugh with people, we're
hardly ever actually laughing at jokes.
hardly ever actually laughing at jokes.
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a kad se smijemo među ljudima,
rijetko se kad smijemo šalama.
rijetko se kad smijemo šalama.
05:23
You are laughing to show people
that you understand them,
that you understand them,
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Smijemo se ne bismo li im pokazali
da ih razumijemo,
da ih razumijemo,
05:26
that you agree with them, that you're
part of the same group as them.
part of the same group as them.
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da se slažemo s njima,
da pripadamo istoj skupini,
da pripadamo istoj skupini,
05:29
You're laughing to show
that you like them.
that you like them.
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kako bismo im pokazali da nam se sviđaju.
05:31
You might even love them.
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Ili čak da ih volimo.
05:33
You're doing all that at the same time
as talking to them,
as talking to them,
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Sve to radite dok pričate s njima,
05:35
and the laughter is doing a lot
of that emotional work for you.
of that emotional work for you.
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a smijeh odrađuje velik dio
emocionalnog posla.
emocionalnog posla.
05:38
Something that Robert Provine
has pointed out, as you can see here,
has pointed out, as you can see here,
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Robert Provine istaknuo je
05:41
and the reason why we were laughing
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da smo se smijali
05:43
when we heard those
funny laughs at the start,
funny laughs at the start,
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onim smiješnim smjehovima s početka
05:45
and why I was laughing
when I found my parents laughing,
when I found my parents laughing,
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i zašto sam se ja smijala
vidjevši roditelje
vidjevši roditelje
05:48
is that it's an enormously
behaviorally contagious effect.
behaviorally contagious effect.
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jest zbog njegove iznimne
bihevioralne zaraznosti.
bihevioralne zaraznosti.
05:51
You can catch laughter from somebody else,
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Možete se njime zaraziti,
05:53
and you are more likely to catch laughter
off somebody else if you know them.
off somebody else if you know them.
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a to će se češće dogoditi
ukoliko poznajete te ljude.
ukoliko poznajete te ljude.
05:57
So it's still modulated
by this social context.
by this social context.
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Dakle, modulirano je
društvenim kontekstom.
društvenim kontekstom.
05:59
You have to put humor to one side
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Moramo zanemariti humor
06:00
and think about the social
meaning of laughter
meaning of laughter
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i razmišljati o socijalnom značaju smijeha
06:03
because that's where its origins lie.
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jer od toga potiče.
06:05
Now, something I've got very interested in
is different kinds of laughter,
is different kinds of laughter,
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Mene su zainteresirale
različite vrste smijeha.
različite vrste smijeha.
06:09
and we have some neurobiological evidence
about how human beings vocalize
about how human beings vocalize
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Imamo neurobiološke dokaze
o tome kako ljudi vokaliziraju
o tome kako ljudi vokaliziraju
06:14
that suggests there might be
two kinds of laughs that we have.
two kinds of laughs that we have.
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koji ukazuju na to
da imamo dvije vrste smijeha.
da imamo dvije vrste smijeha.
06:18
So it seems possible that the neurobiology
for helpless, involuntary laughter,
for helpless, involuntary laughter,
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Moguće je da neurobiologija
bespomoćnog, nesvojevoljnog smijeha,
bespomoćnog, nesvojevoljnog smijeha,
06:23
like my parents lying on the floor
screaming about a silly song,
screaming about a silly song,
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poput onoga kada su mi se roditelji
valjali po podu zbog pjesme,
valjali po podu zbog pjesme,
06:26
might have a different basis to it
than some of that more polite
than some of that more polite
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ima drugačiju osnovu od onih pristojnijih
06:29
social laughter that you encounter,
which isn't horrible laughter,
which isn't horrible laughter,
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društvenih smjehova na koje nailazimo,
što nije užasan smijeh,
što nije užasan smijeh,
06:32
but it's behavior somebody is doing
as part of their communicative act to you,
as part of their communicative act to you,
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već je to način ponašanja
kojim se nastoji komunicirati,
kojim se nastoji komunicirati,
06:36
part of their interaction with you;
they are choosing to do this.
they are choosing to do this.
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dio njihove interakcije s vama,
a oni se odlučuju na to.
a oni se odlučuju na to.
06:40
In our evolution, we have developed
two different ways of vocalizing.
two different ways of vocalizing.
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Tijekom evolucije razvili smo
dva različita načina vokalizacije.
dva različita načina vokalizacije.
06:43
Involuntary vocalizations
are part of an older system
are part of an older system
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Nenamjerne vokalizacije
dio su starijeg sustava
dio su starijeg sustava
06:46
than the more voluntary vocalizations
like the speech I'm doing now.
like the speech I'm doing now.
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od namjernih vokalizacija
poput govora koji ja sad provodim.
poput govora koji ja sad provodim.
06:49
So we might imagine that laughter
might actually have two different roots.
might actually have two different roots.
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Možemo pretpostaviti
da smijeh ima dva različita korijena.
da smijeh ima dva različita korijena.
06:53
So I've been looking at this
in more detail.
in more detail.
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Detaljno sam to proučavala.
06:55
To do this, we've had to make
recordings of people laughing,
recordings of people laughing,
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Kako bih to napravila,
trebale su nam snimke smijeha
trebale su nam snimke smijeha
06:58
and we've had to do whatever it takes
to make people laugh,
to make people laugh,
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i morali smo se dobrano
potruditi da nasmijemo ljude.
potruditi da nasmijemo ljude.
07:01
and we got those same people
to produce more posed, social laughter.
to produce more posed, social laughter.
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Neki su proizveli umjetne,
društvene smjehove.
društvene smjehove.
07:04
So imagine your friend told a joke,
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Zamislite - prijatelj vam priča vic
07:05
and you're laughing because
you like your friend,
you like your friend,
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i vi se smijete jer vam je prijatelj drag,
07:08
but not really because
the joke's all that.
the joke's all that.
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a ne zbog toga što je vic tako dobar.
07:10
So I'm going to play you
a couple of those.
a couple of those.
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Pustit ću vam nekoliko takvih.
07:12
I want you to tell me if you think
this laughter is real laughter,
this laughter is real laughter,
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Reći ćete mi mislite li
je li ovo iskreni smijeh
je li ovo iskreni smijeh
07:15
or if you think it's posed.
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ili je ipak umjetan.
07:16
So is this involuntary laughter
or more voluntary laughter?
or more voluntary laughter?
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Nenamjeran ili namjeran smijeh?
07:19
(Audio: Laughing)
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(Zvuk: Smijeh)
07:24
What does that sound like to you?
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Što vi mislite?
07:26
Audience: Posed.
Sophie Scott: Posed? Posed.
Sophie Scott: Posed? Posed.
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Publika: Umjetan.
Sophie Scott: Umjetan? Da.
Sophie Scott: Umjetan? Da.
07:28
How about this one?
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A ovaj?
07:29
(Audio: Laughing)
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(Zvuk: Smijeh)
07:34
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
07:35
I'm the best.
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Prava sam!
07:37
(Laughter) (Applause)
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(Smijeh) (Pljesak)
07:39
Not really.
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Pa baš i nisam.
07:41
No, that was helpless laughter,
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To je bio bespomoćan smijeh,
07:43
and in fact, to record that,
all they had to do was record me
all they had to do was record me
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a kako bismo to snimili,
samo su trebali snimiti mene
samo su trebali snimiti mene
07:47
watching one of my friends listening to
something I knew she wanted to laugh at,
something I knew she wanted to laugh at,
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kako gledam prijateljicu koja sluša nešto
na što sam znala da se želi nasmijati
na što sam znala da se želi nasmijati
07:50
and I just started doing this.
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i dogodilo se ovo.
07:52
What you find is that people
are good at telling the difference
are good at telling the difference
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Ljudima uistinu ide razlikovanje
07:55
between real and posed laughter.
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iskrenog i umjetnog smijeha.
07:57
They seem to be different things to us.
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Čine nam se drukčije.
07:59
Interestingly, you see something
quite similar with chimpanzees.
quite similar with chimpanzees.
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Zanimljivo je da na nešto slično
nailazimo i kod čimpanzi.
nailazimo i kod čimpanzi.
08:02
Chimpanzees laugh differently
if they're being tickled
if they're being tickled
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One se drukčije smiju kada ih se škaklji
08:04
than if they're playing with each other,
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i kad se igraju jedna s drugom,
08:06
and we might be seeing
something like that here,
something like that here,
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a to je možda nalik situaciji koju imamo
08:08
involuntary laughter, tickling laughter,
being different from social laughter.
being different from social laughter.
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kod nenamjernog i škakljajućeg smijeha
koji se razlikuje od onog društvenog.
koji se razlikuje od onog društvenog.
08:12
They're acoustically very different.
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Akustički su znatno drukčiji.
08:14
The real laughs are longer.
They're higher in pitch.
They're higher in pitch.
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Iskreni su smjehovi dulji, piskutaviji.
08:16
When you start laughing hard,
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Kada se počnete jako smijati,
08:18
you start squeezing air out
from your lungs
from your lungs
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počnete istiskivati zrak iz pluća
08:20
under much higher pressures
than you could ever produce voluntarily.
than you could ever produce voluntarily.
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pod većim pritiskom nego što biste
to mogli izvesti voljnim putem.
to mogli izvesti voljnim putem.
08:23
For example, I could never
pitch my voice that high to sing.
pitch my voice that high to sing.
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Nikada ne bih mogla svoj glas
toliko povisiti za pjevanje.
toliko povisiti za pjevanje.
08:26
Also, you start to get these sort of
contractions and weird whistling sounds,
contractions and weird whistling sounds,
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Također, počnete proizvoditi
te kontrakcije i čudne zviždeće zvukove,
te kontrakcije i čudne zviždeće zvukove,
08:30
all of which mean that real laughter
is extremely easy,
is extremely easy,
170
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što znači da je iskreni smijeh dosta lagan
08:32
or feels extremely easy to spot.
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ili ga je barem dosta lako uočiti.
08:34
In contrast, posed laughter,
we might think it sounds a bit fake.
we might think it sounds a bit fake.
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Nasuprot tome, možemo misliti
da umjetni smijeh zvuči lažno,
da umjetni smijeh zvuči lažno,
08:39
Actually, it's not, it's actually
an important social cue.
an important social cue.
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no to je zapravo važan socijalni znak.
08:42
We use it a lot, we're choosing
to laugh in a lot of situations,
to laugh in a lot of situations,
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Često ga koristimo, namjerno
se smijemo u mnogim situacijama
se smijemo u mnogim situacijama
08:45
and it seems to be its own thing.
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i doima se kao neovisna pojava.
08:47
So, for example, you find
nasality in posed laughter,
nasality in posed laughter,
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Npr. u umjetnom smijehu
nailazimo na nazalnost,
nailazimo na nazalnost,
08:50
that kind of "ha ha ha ha ha" sound
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onaj "ha ha ha ha ha" zvuk
08:52
that you never get, you could not do,
if you were laughing involuntarily.
if you were laughing involuntarily.
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koji nikada ne biste mogli proizvesti
nenamjernim smijanjem.
nenamjernim smijanjem.
08:55
So they do seem to be genuinely
these two different sorts of things.
these two different sorts of things.
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To su uistinu dvije različite stvari.
08:58
We took it into the scanner
to see how brains respond
to see how brains respond
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Stavili smo ih u skener
da vidimo kako mozak reagira
da vidimo kako mozak reagira
09:01
when you hear laughter.
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1212
na zvuk smijeha.
09:02
And when you do this,
this is a really boring experiment.
this is a really boring experiment.
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Dosadano je provoditi ovaj eksperiment.
09:05
We just played people
real and posed laughs.
real and posed laughs.
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2045
Samo smo puštali
prave i umjetne smjehove.
prave i umjetne smjehove.
09:07
We didn't tell them
it was a study on laughter.
it was a study on laughter.
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Ispitanicima nismo rekli što istražujemo.
09:09
We put other sounds in there
to distract them,
to distract them,
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2199
Dodali smo i druge zvukove
da ih zbunimo,
da ih zbunimo,
09:11
and all they're doing
is lying listening to sounds.
is lying listening to sounds.
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a oni su samo ležali i slušali zvukove.
09:14
We don't tell them to do anything.
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Nismo im rekli da išta rade,
09:15
Nonetheless, when you hear real laughter
and when you hear posed laughter,
and when you hear posed laughter,
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ali kada čujemo pravi i umjetni smijeh,
09:19
the brains are responding
completely differently,
completely differently,
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2417
mozak reagira potpuno drukčije,
09:21
significantly differently.
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1432
znatno drukčije.
09:23
What you see in the regions in blue,
which lies in auditory cortex,
which lies in auditory cortex,
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551186
3548
Plavo obojena područja
u kojima se nalazi slušni kortekst
u kojima se nalazi slušni kortekst
09:26
are the brain areas that respond
more to the real laughs,
more to the real laughs,
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2689
označavaju područja koja
više reagiraju na pravi smijeh,
više reagiraju na pravi smijeh,
09:29
and what seems to be the case,
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1441
a čini se da
09:30
when you hear somebody
laughing involuntarily,
laughing involuntarily,
194
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2157
kada čujete nekoga kako se
nenamjerno smije,
nenamjerno smije,
09:33
you hear sounds you would never
hear in any other context.
hear in any other context.
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2727
čujete zvukove specifične
samo za taj kontekst.
samo za taj kontekst.
09:35
It's very unambiguous,
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1086
Veoma je jasno
09:36
and it seems to be associated
with greater auditory processing
with greater auditory processing
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3070
i po svemu sudeći, povezano
s pojačanim slušnim procesuiranjem
s pojačanim slušnim procesuiranjem
09:39
of these novel sounds.
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tih novih zvukova.
09:41
In contrast, when you hear somebody
laughing in a posed way,
laughing in a posed way,
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3809
Za razliku od toga,
kad čujemo umjetni smijeh,
kad čujemo umjetni smijeh,
09:45
what you see are these regions in pink,
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pojave se ova ružičasta područja
09:47
which are occupying brain areas
associated with mentalizing,
associated with mentalizing,
201
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u kojima se nalaze područja
vezana uz umovanje,
vezana uz umovanje,
09:50
thinking about what
somebody else is thinking.
somebody else is thinking.
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2155
razmišljanje o tome
što netko drugi misli.
što netko drugi misli.
09:52
And I think what that means is,
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1540
Mislim da to znači
09:53
even if you're having your brain scanned,
which is completely boring
which is completely boring
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da čak i ako skenirate mozak,
što je užasno dosadno
što je užasno dosadno
09:56
and not very interesting,
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1200
i prilično nezanimljivo,
09:58
when you hear somebody going,
"A ha ha ha ha ha,"
"A ha ha ha ha ha,"
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2333
kad čujete "A ha ha ha ha ha",
10:00
you're trying to work out
why they're laughing.
why they're laughing.
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pokušavate shvatiti čemu se smiju.
10:02
Laughter is always meaningful.
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Smijeh uvijek ima značenje.
10:04
You are always trying
to understand it in context,
to understand it in context,
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Uvijek ga pokušavamo shvatiti
unutar konteksta
unutar konteksta
10:06
even if, as far as you are concerned,
at that point in time,
at that point in time,
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čak iako, što se nas tiče, u tom trenutku
10:09
it has not necessarily
anything to do with you,
anything to do with you,
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nema nikakve veze s nama,
10:11
you still want to know
why those people are laughing.
why those people are laughing.
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još uvijek želimo znati
zašto se drugi ljudi smiju.
zašto se drugi ljudi smiju.
10:14
Now, we've had the opportunity to look
at how people hear real and posed laughter
at how people hear real and posed laughter
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Imali smo priliku promotriti kako
doživljavamo iskreni i umjetni smijeh
doživljavamo iskreni i umjetni smijeh
10:18
across the age range.
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po dobnim skupinama.
10:19
So this is an online experiment
we ran with the Royal Society,
we ran with the Royal Society,
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2931
To je online-eksperiment
koji smo proveli s Royal Societyjem.
koji smo proveli s Royal Societyjem.
10:21
and here we just asked people
two questions.
two questions.
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Ljudima smo postavili dva pitanja.
10:24
First of all, they heard some laughs,
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Najprije su poslušali neke smjehove
10:25
and they had to say, how real
or posed do these laughs sound?
or posed do these laughs sound?
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3019
te su morali odrediti koliko
iskreno, odnosno umjetno zvuče.
iskreno, odnosno umjetno zvuče.
10:28
The real laughs are shown in red
and the posed laughs are shown in blue.
and the posed laughs are shown in blue.
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Iskreni smjehovi prikazani su
crvenom bojom, a umjetni plavom.
crvenom bojom, a umjetni plavom.
10:32
What you see is there is a rapid onset.
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Ovdje imamo ubrzan početak.
10:34
As you get older, you get better
and better at spotting real laughter.
and better at spotting real laughter.
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Kako starimo, sve smo bolji
u prepoznavanju iskrenog smijeha.
u prepoznavanju iskrenog smijeha.
10:37
So six-year-olds are at chance,
they can't really hear the difference.
they can't really hear the difference.
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Šestogodišnjaci igraju na sreću,
ne vide neku preveliku razliku.
ne vide neku preveliku razliku.
10:40
By the time you are older, you get better,
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2152
Kako starimo, to smo sve bolji,
10:43
but interestingly, you do not hit
peak performance in this dataset
peak performance in this dataset
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3622
ali zanimljivo je da u ovom skupu podataka
ne dostižemo svoj vrhunac
ne dostižemo svoj vrhunac
10:46
until you are in your
late 30s and early 40s.
late 30s and early 40s.
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3531
sve do kasnih tridesetih
i ranih četrdesetih.
i ranih četrdesetih.
10:50
You don't understand laughter fully
by the time you hit puberty.
by the time you hit puberty.
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3041
Ne razumijemo smijeh
u potpunosti prije puberteta.
u potpunosti prije puberteta.
10:53
You don't understand laughter fully
by the time your brain has matured
by the time your brain has matured
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Ne razumijemo ga u potpunosti
dok nam se mozak ne razvije
dok nam se mozak ne razvije
10:56
at the end of your teens.
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1394
krajem adolescencije.
10:58
You're learning about laughter
throughout your entire early adult life.
throughout your entire early adult life.
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3798
O smijehu učimo cijelu mladost.
11:01
If we turn the question around and now say
not, what does the laughter sound like
not, what does the laughter sound like
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Ali što ako promijenimo pitanje
i ne pitamo kako smijeh zvuči
i ne pitamo kako smijeh zvuči
11:05
in terms of being real
or posed, but we say,
or posed, but we say,
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2052
kao iskren i umjetan, nego pitamo
11:07
how much does this laughter
make you want to laugh,
make you want to laugh,
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koliko nas smijeh tjera na smijeh,
11:10
how contagious is this laughter to you,
we see a different profile.
we see a different profile.
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3215
koliko je zarazan,
vidimo drukčiji profil.
vidimo drukčiji profil.
11:13
And here, the younger you are,
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1503
U ovom slučaju, što smo mlađi,
11:14
the more you want to join in
when you hear laughter.
when you hear laughter.
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2434
više se želimo pridružiti smijehu
kada ga čujemo.
kada ga čujemo.
11:17
Remember me laughing with my parents
when I had no idea what was going on.
when I had no idea what was going on.
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3493
Tako sam se ja smijala s roditeljima
bez da sam imala pojma što se događa.
bez da sam imala pojma što se događa.
11:20
You really can see this.
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To je vidljivo.
11:22
Now everybody, young and old,
238
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1395
Svi ljudi, i mladi i stari,
11:23
finds the real laughs more contagious
than the posed laughs,
than the posed laughs,
239
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2845
iskreni smijeh smatraju zaraznijim
od hinjenog smijeha,
od hinjenog smijeha,
11:26
but as you get older, it all becomes
less contagious to you.
less contagious to you.
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2910
ali kako starimo,
sve postaje manje zarazno.
sve postaje manje zarazno.
11:29
Now, either we're all just becoming
really grumpy as we get older,
really grumpy as we get older,
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4204
To znači da ili svi postajemo
mrzovoljni kako starimo
mrzovoljni kako starimo
11:33
or it may mean that as you
understand laughter better,
understand laughter better,
242
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2929
ili da počinjemo bolje razumjeti smijeh
11:36
and you are getting better at doing that,
243
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2089
i sve smo bolji u tome
11:38
you need more than just
hearing people laugh to want to laugh.
hearing people laugh to want to laugh.
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2946
i nije nam dosta samo zvuk smijeha
da se i mi počnemo smijati.
da se i mi počnemo smijati.
11:41
You need the social stuff there.
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2647
Potreban je društveni kontekst.
11:43
So we've got a very interesting behavior
246
691986
1974
To je iznimno zanimljivo ponašanje
11:45
about which a lot of our
lay assumptions are incorrect,
lay assumptions are incorrect,
247
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3153
o kojemu je većina
naših laičkih pretpostavki pogrešno,
naših laičkih pretpostavki pogrešno,
11:49
but I'm coming to see that actually
there's even more to laughter
there's even more to laughter
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3851
ali počinjem shvaćati
da je smijeh nešto više
da je smijeh nešto više
11:52
than it's an important social emotion
we should look at,
we should look at,
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2731
od važne društvene emocije
koju trebamo promatrati
koju trebamo promatrati
11:55
because it turns out
people are phenomenally nuanced
people are phenomenally nuanced
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2919
jer se ispostavilo da su ljudi
izvanredno osjetljivi
izvanredno osjetljivi
11:58
in terms of how we use laughter.
251
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1587
po pitanju korištenja smijeha.
12:00
There's a really lovely
set of studies coming out
set of studies coming out
252
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2284
Postoji krasan skup studija koje dolaze
12:02
from Robert Levenson's lab in California,
253
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2094
iz Levensonova laboratorija u Kaliforniji
12:04
where he's doing
a longitudinal study with couples.
a longitudinal study with couples.
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2476
u kojemu provodi
longitudinalnu studiju s parovima.
longitudinalnu studiju s parovima.
12:07
He gets married couples,
men and women, into the lab,
men and women, into the lab,
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Vjenčani parovi, muškarci i žene,
dolaze mu u laboratorij,
dolaze mu u laboratorij,
12:09
and he gives them
stressful conversations to have
stressful conversations to have
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a on ih uključuje u stresne razgovore
12:12
while he wires them up to a polygraph
so he can see them becoming stressed.
so he can see them becoming stressed.
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dok su spojeni na poligraf
da vidi kako se počinju uznemiravati.
da vidi kako se počinju uznemiravati.
12:15
So you've got the two of them in there,
and he'll say to the husband,
and he'll say to the husband,
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U sobi je bračni par, a on kaže suprugu:
12:18
"Tell me something that your wife does
that irritates you."
that irritates you."
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"Pričajte mi o nečemu
što vas živcira kod vaše žene."
što vas živcira kod vaše žene."
12:21
And what you see is immediately --
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Odmah vidite -
12:23
just run that one through your head
briefly, you and your partner --
briefly, you and your partner --
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zamislite to na trenutak,
vas i vašeg partnera -
vas i vašeg partnera -
12:26
you can imagine everybody gets a bit
more stressed as soon as that starts.
more stressed as soon as that starts.
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možete zamisliti da se svatko
u tom trenutku barem malo uznemiri.
u tom trenutku barem malo uznemiri.
12:30
You can see physically,
people become more stressed.
people become more stressed.
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To se može uočiti i fizički.
12:33
What he finds is that the couples
who manage that feeling of stress
who manage that feeling of stress
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Uočio je da oni parovi
koji osjećaj uznemirenosti pobijede
koji osjećaj uznemirenosti pobijede
12:39
with laughter,
positive emotions like laughter,
positive emotions like laughter,
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smijehom
12:42
not only immediately become less stressed,
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ne samo da odmah postanu manje napeti
12:46
they can see them
physically feeling better,
physically feeling better,
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već je i fizički vidljivo
da se bolje osjećaju,
da se bolje osjećaju,
12:48
they're dealing with this
unpleasant situation better together,
unpleasant situation better together,
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s tom se neugodnom situacijom
bolje nose zajednički.
bolje nose zajednički.
12:52
they are also the couples that report
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To su također parovi koji pokazuju
12:53
high levels of satisfaction
in their relationship
in their relationship
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više razine zadovoljstva u vezi
12:56
and they stay together for longer.
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te duže ostaju zajedno.
12:57
So in fact, when you look
at close relationships,
at close relationships,
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Kad promatramo bliske odnose,
13:00
laughter is a phenomenally useful index
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smijeh je iznimno koristan pokazatelj
13:02
of how people are regulating
their emotions together.
their emotions together.
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zajedničkog kontroliranja emocija.
13:04
We're not just emitting it at each other
to show that we like each other,
to show that we like each other,
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Ne koristimo ga samo da pokažemo
drugima da nam se sviđaju
drugima da nam se sviđaju
13:08
we're making ourselves
feel better together.
feel better together.
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već i kako bismo se mi bolje osjećali.
13:10
Now, I don't think this is going
to be limited to romantic relationships.
to be limited to romantic relationships.
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Mislim da se to ne odnosi
samo na romantične veze,
samo na romantične veze,
13:13
I think this is probably
going to be a characteristic
going to be a characteristic
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vjerojatno je karakteristično
13:16
of close emotional relationships
such as you might have with friends,
such as you might have with friends,
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3318
i za bliske emocionalne odnose,
poput onih s prijateljima,
poput onih s prijateljima,
13:19
which explains my next clip,
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što objašnjava sljedeći video.
13:21
which is of a YouTube video of some
young men in the former East Germany
young men in the former East Germany
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To je YT-video mladića
bivše Istočne Njemačke
bivše Istočne Njemačke
13:24
on making a video to promote
their heavy metal band,
their heavy metal band,
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o snimanju spota radi
promocije svog heavy metal benda.
promocije svog heavy metal benda.
13:28
and it's extremely macho,
and the mood is very serious,
and the mood is very serious,
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Video je sav muževan,
raspoloženje iznimno ozbiljno,
raspoloženje iznimno ozbiljno,
13:31
and I want you to notice
what happens in terms of laughter
what happens in terms of laughter
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a sad pratite što se događa
po pitanju smijeha
po pitanju smijeha
13:34
when things go wrong
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1950
kad nešto pođe krivo,
13:36
and how quickly that happens,
and how that changes the mood.
and how that changes the mood.
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koliko se to brzo odvija
i koliko mijenja cijelo raspoloženje.
i koliko mijenja cijelo raspoloženje.
13:41
He's cold. He's about to get wet.
He's got swimming trunks on,
He's got swimming trunks on,
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Hladno mu je, uskoro će se smočiti,
na sebi ima kupaće gaće,
na sebi ima kupaće gaće,
13:44
got a towel.
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ima i ručnik.
13:48
Ice.
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Led.
13:50
What might possibly happen?
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Što bi se moglo dogoditi?
13:54
Video starts.
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Video počinje.
13:57
Serious mood.
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Ozbiljno raspoloženje.
14:06
And his friends are already laughing.
They are already laughing, hard.
They are already laughing, hard.
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Njegovi se prijatelji smiju, i to jako.
14:11
He's not laughing yet.
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On se još uvijek ne smije.
14:14
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
14:16
He's starting to go now.
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Sad se i on počinje smijati.
14:25
And now they're all off.
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I sad svi pucaju od smijeha.
14:27
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh.)
14:44
They're on the floor.
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Na podu su.
14:46
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
14:55
The thing I really like about that
is it's all very serious
is it's all very serious
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Ono što mi se ovdje posebno sviđa
jest ta ozbiljnost koja vlada
jest ta ozbiljnost koja vlada
14:59
until he jumps onto the ice, and
as soon as he doesn't go through the ice,
as soon as he doesn't go through the ice,
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sve dok on ne skoči na led
i čim ne propadne kroz njega,
i čim ne propadne kroz njega,
15:02
but also there isn't blood
and bone everywhere,
and bone everywhere,
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a na vidiku nema
ni krvi ni slomljenih kostiju,
ni krvi ni slomljenih kostiju,
15:05
his friends start laughing.
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1573
prijatelji mu se počinju smijati.
15:06
And imagine if that had played him out
with him standing there going,
with him standing there going,
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A zamislite da je stao i rekao:
15:09
"No seriously, Heinrich,
I think this is broken,"
I think this is broken,"
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2444
"Ozbiljno, Heinrich,
mislim da je slomljeno."
mislim da je slomljeno."
15:12
we wouldn't enjoy watching that.
That would be stressful.
That would be stressful.
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Ne bismo uživali gledajući.
Bilo bi stresno.
Bilo bi stresno.
15:15
Or if he was running around
with a visibly broken leg laughing,
with a visibly broken leg laughing,
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Ili da je trčao okolo smijući se,
vidno slomljene noge,
vidno slomljene noge,
15:18
and his friends are going, "Heinrich, I
think we need to go to the hospital now,"
think we need to go to the hospital now,"
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a njegovi prijatelji viču: "Heinrich,
mislim da moramo u bolnicu."
mislim da moramo u bolnicu."
15:22
that also wouldn't be funny.
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Ni to ne bi bilo smiješno.
15:23
The fact that the laughter works,
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Ovdje smijeh pali
15:25
it gets him from a painful,
embarrassing, difficult situation,
embarrassing, difficult situation,
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2962
jer ga izvlači iz bolne,
neugodne i teške situacije
neugodne i teške situacije
15:28
into a funny situation, into what we're
actually enjoying there,
actually enjoying there,
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i stavlja u smiješnu situaciju
u kojoj svi uživaju.
u kojoj svi uživaju.
15:31
and I think that's
a really interesting use,
a really interesting use,
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Mislim da je to zaista zanimljiva upotreba
15:33
and it's actually happening all the time.
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1978
koja se često koristi.
15:35
For example, I can remember
something like this happening
something like this happening
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Primjerice, sjećam se da se
ovako nešto dogodilo
ovako nešto dogodilo
15:37
at my father's funeral.
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na očevoj sahrani.
15:39
We weren't jumping around
on the ice in our underpants.
on the ice in our underpants.
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2615
Nismo skakali po ledu u donjem rublju.
15:41
We're not Canadian.
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Nismo Kanađani.
15:44
(Laughter) (Applause)
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(Smijeh) (Pljesak)
15:46
These events are always difficult, I had
a relative who was being a bit difficult,
a relative who was being a bit difficult,
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Takvi su događaji uvijek teški,
jedan mi je rođak bio pomalo težak,
jedan mi je rođak bio pomalo težak,
15:50
my mum was not in a good place,
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1530
ni mama nije bila baš najbolje,
15:52
and I can remember finding myself
just before the whole thing started
just before the whole thing started
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3284
a ja sam, prije no što je sve započelo,
15:55
telling this story about something
that happened in a 1970s sitcom,
that happened in a 1970s sitcom,
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4247
pričala priču o nečemu
što je bilo u seriji iz 70-ih
što je bilo u seriji iz 70-ih
15:59
and I just thought at the time,
I don't know why I'm doing this,
I don't know why I'm doing this,
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i cijelo vrijeme nisam
imala pojma zašto to radim,
imala pojma zašto to radim,
16:02
and what I realized I was doing
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a onda sam shvatila
16:04
was I was coming up with
something from somewhere
something from somewhere
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da sam smišljala nešto
16:07
I could use to make her laugh
together with me.
together with me.
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4389
što mogu iskoristi kako bih je navela
da se smije sa mnom.
da se smije sa mnom.
16:11
It was a very basic reaction
to find some reason we can do this.
to find some reason we can do this.
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Bila je to nagonska reakcija
kako bih našla razlog da mi to možemo.
kako bih našla razlog da mi to možemo.
16:14
We can laugh together.
We're going to get through this.
We're going to get through this.
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Možemo se zajedno smijati, možemo mi to.
16:17
We're going to be okay.
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Bit ćemo dobro.
16:19
And in fact, all of us
are doing this all the time.
are doing this all the time.
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2431
I zaista, svi mi to radimo cijelo vrijeme.
16:21
You do it so often,
you don't even notice it.
you don't even notice it.
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Tako često da toga više nismo ni svjesni.
16:23
Everybody underestimates
how often they laugh,
how often they laugh,
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Svi podcjenjujemo koliko se često smijemo,
16:26
and you're doing something,
when you laugh with people,
when you laugh with people,
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a dok se smijemo
s drugim ljudima, radimo nešto
s drugim ljudima, radimo nešto
16:29
that's actually letting you access
a really ancient evolutionary system
a really ancient evolutionary system
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što nam dopušta da pristupimo
pradavnom evolucijskom sustavu
pradavnom evolucijskom sustavu
16:33
that mammals have evolved
to make and maintain social bonds,
to make and maintain social bonds,
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koji su sisavci razvili ne bi li
stvarali i održavali društvene veze,
stvarali i održavali društvene veze,
16:37
and clearly to regulate emotions,
to make ourselves feel better.
to make ourselves feel better.
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jasno kontrolirali emocije i
popravljali raspoloženje.
popravljali raspoloženje.
16:41
It's not something specific to humans --
it's a really ancient behavior
it's a really ancient behavior
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Nije to rezervirano samo za ljude --
to je drevni oblik ponašanja
to je drevni oblik ponašanja
16:44
which really helps us regulate how we feel
and makes us feel better.
and makes us feel better.
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koji nam pomaže kontrolirati osjećaje
i popraviti nam raspoloženje.
i popraviti nam raspoloženje.
16:48
In other words, when it comes to laughter,
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Drugim riječima, kad govorimo o smijehu,
16:51
you and me, baby, ain't nothing
but mammals. (Laughter)
but mammals. (Laughter)
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ti i ja, dušo, samo smo sisavci.
(Smijeh)
(Smijeh)
16:54
Thank you.
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Hvala vam.
16:56
Thank you. (Applause)
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Hvala vam. (Pljesak)
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Sophie Scott - Neuroscientist, stand-up comicWhile exploring the neuroscience of speech and vocal behavior, Sophie Scott stumbled upon a surprising second vocation: making audiences laugh as a stand-up comic.
Why you should listen
As deputy director of the University College London’s Institute of Cognitive Neuroscience, Sophie Scott seeks out the neurological basis of communication, whether it’s speech or vocalized emotion.
As a pioneering researcher in the science of laughter, she’s made some unexpected discoveries -- including that rats are ticklish, and that the one tactic that’s almost guaranteed to get someone to laugh is to show them someone else laughing. But as an occasional stand-up comedian with UCL’s Bright Club, she shows that she’s no slouch at getting laughs herself.
Sophie Scott | Speaker | TED.com