TED2006
Dan Dennett: Let's teach religion -- all religion -- in schools
Odgovor Dana Dennetta Ricku Warrenu
Filmed:
Readability: 3.9
3,728,395 views
Filozof Dan Dennett poziva sve religije da se počnu podučavati u školama s ciljem razumijevanja njihove prirode kao prirodnog fenomena. Zatim priča o knjizi "Smislom vođen život", pobijajući tvrdnju kako, da bi bili moralni, moramo poricati teoriju evolucije.
Dan Dennett - Philosopher, cognitive scientist
Dan Dennett thinks that human consciousness and free will are the result of physical processes. Full bio
Dan Dennett thinks that human consciousness and free will are the result of physical processes. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:26
It's wonderful to be back.
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Lijepo je opet biti tu.
00:29
I love this wonderful gathering.
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Volim ovakva divna okupljanja
00:32
And you must be wondering, "What on Earth?
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Mora da se pitate, "što je to dovraga?
00:34
Have they put up the wrong slide?"
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Jesu li stavili pogrešan slide?"
00:36
No, no.
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Ne, ne
00:38
Look at this magnificent beast and ask the question -- who designed it?
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Pogledajte ovu predivnu životinju i zapitajte se -- tko je dizajner?
00:45
This is TED.
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Ovo je TED.
00:47
This is Technology, Entertainment, Design and there's a dairy cow.
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Ovo je Tehnologija, Zabava, Dizajn... a tu je i krava muzara.
00:54
It's a quite wonderfully designed animal.
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Predivno dizajnirana životinja.
00:58
And I was thinking, how do I introduce this?
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Razmišljao sam, kako da ovo predstavim?
01:00
And I thought, well, maybe that old doggerel by Joyce Kilmer,
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Pa sam pomislio, pa možda putem grubih stihova Joyca Kilmera,
01:05
you know: "Poems are made by fools like me,
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znate ono: "stihovi stvaraju glupani poput mene,
01:07
but only God can make a tree."
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ali samo Bog može stvoriti drvo."
01:09
And you might say, "Well, God designed the cow."
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A vi možete reći, "Pa, Bog je dizajnirao kravu."
01:12
But, of course, God got a lot of help.
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Ali, naravno, Bog je imao veliku pomoć..
01:16
This is the ancestor of cattle.
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Ovo je predak goveda.
01:19
This is the Oryx.
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Ovo je Oriks.
01:21
And it was designed by natural selection,
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Dizajniran je prirodnom selekcijom,
01:23
the process of natural selection, over many millions of years.
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procesom prirodne selekcije tijekom mnoštva milijona godina.
01:27
And then it became domesticated thousands of years ago.
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I onda je pripitomljen prije mnogo tisuća godina.
01:32
And human beings became its stewards,
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Ljudi su postali njegovi skrbnici,
01:37
and, without even knowing what they were doing,
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i bez da su znali što rade
01:39
they gradually redesigned it and redesigned it and redesigned it.
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uspješno su ga redizajnirali i redizajnirali i redizajnirali.
01:43
And then, more recently, they really began
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I onda su, nedavno, ozbiljno započeli
01:46
to do sort of reverse engineering on this beast
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provoditi svojevrsni obratni inženjering na ovom biću
01:49
and figure out just what the parts were, how they worked
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da shvate koji su joj dijelovi, kako rade
01:52
and how they might be optimized -- how they might be made better.
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i kako se mogu optimizirati -- kako postići da bolje rade.
01:57
Now why am I talking about cows?
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Zašto ja sada govorim o kravama?
02:01
Because I want to say that much the same thing is true of religions.
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Zato što želim reći kako je isto i sa religijama.
02:06
Religions are natural phenomena.
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Religije su prirodni fenomen.
02:09
They're just as natural as cows.
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Prirodne su poput krava.
02:11
They have evolved over millennia.
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Evoluirale su kroz tisućljeća.
02:15
They have a biological base, just like the Oryx.
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Imaju biološku bazu poput Oriksa.
02:20
They have become domesticated, and human beings
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Pripitomljene su, a ljudi
02:23
have been redesigning their religions for thousands of years.
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su ih redizajnirali tisućama godina.
02:29
This is TED, and I want to talk about design.
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Ovo je TED, i ja želim govoriti o dizajnu.
02:33
Because what I've been doing for the last four years,
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Zbog toga jer to radim posljednje četiri godine,
02:36
really since the first time you saw me -- some of you saw me at TED
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zapravo odkad ste me prvi put vidjeli -- neki od vas vidjeli su me na TED-u
02:38
when I was talking about religion, and in the last four years
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kada sam govorio o religiji, i u zadnje četiri godine
02:42
I've been working just about non-stop on this topic.
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radio sam neprestano na ovoj temi.
02:45
And you might say it's about the reverse engineering of religions.
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I možete reći da je riječ o obratnom inženjeringu religije.
02:51
Now that very idea, I think, strikes terror in many people,
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Mislim da ta ideja užasava mnoge,
02:57
or anger, or anxiety of one sort or another.
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ili ih ljuti ili im stvara tjeskobu.
03:02
And that is the spell that I want to break.
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To je čarolija koju želim prekinuti.
03:05
I want to say, no, religions are an important natural phenomenon.
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Želim reći: ne, religije su važan prirodni fenomen.
03:09
We should study them with the same intensity
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Trebamo ih proučavati s istim intenzitetom
03:12
that we study all the other important natural phenomena,
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kao što to radimo i sa ostalim prirodnim fenomenima,
03:15
like global warming, as we heard so eloquently last night from Al Gore.
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poput globalnog zatopljenje, što smo tako rječito čuli od Al Gorea.
03:19
Today's religions are brilliantly designed -- brilliantly designed.
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Današnje su religije savršeno dizajnirane, savršeno dizajnirane.
03:24
They're immensely powerful social institutions
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One su silno moćne društvene institucije
03:28
and many of their features can be traced back to earlier features
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i mnoge njihove značajke možemo povezati s ranijim značajkama
03:34
that we can really make sense of by reverse engineering.
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koje uistinu možemo shvatiti tek ako koristimo obratni inženjering.
03:39
And, as with the cow, there's a mixture of evolutionary design,
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I, kao kod krava, tu je mješavina evolucijskog dizajna,
03:44
designed by natural selection itself, and intelligent design --
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dizajniranog prirodnom selekcijom, i inteligentnog dizajna --
03:49
more or less intelligent design -- and redesigned by human beings
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više ili manje inteligentnog dizajna -- redizajniranog od strane ljudi
03:53
who are trying to redesign their religions.
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koji su pokušavali redizajnirati svoje religije.
03:58
You don't do book talks at TED, but I'm going to have just one slide
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Na TED-u se ne održavaju govori iz knjiga, ali ja ću imati samo jedan slide
04:03
about my book, because there is one message in it
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o mojoj knjizi, jer je u njoj jedna poruka
04:07
which I think this group really needs to hear.
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koju ova grupa stvarno mora čuti.
04:10
And I would be very interested to get your responses to this.
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Volio bi dobiti vaš odgovor na ovo.
04:15
It's the one policy proposal that I make in the book,
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To je jedan politički prijedlog koji sam dao u knjizi,
04:19
at this time when I claim not to know enough about religion
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u vremenu kada tvrdim kako ne znam dovoljno o religiji
04:23
to know what other policy proposals to make.
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da bi znao dovoljno da predložim drugačije.
04:25
And it's one that echoes remarks that you've heard already today.
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To je odjek ideja koje ste danas već čuli.
04:30
Here's my proposal.
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Evo mog prijedloga.
04:32
I'm going to just take a couple of minutes to explain it --
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Uzet ću si nekoliko minuta da ga objasnim --
04:34
education in world religions, on world religions, for all of our children in primary school,
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obrazovanje naše djece o svjetskim religijama u osnovnim školama,
04:41
in high school, in public schools, in private schools and in home schooling.
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srednjim školama, javnim školama, privatnim školama, i kućnom obrazovanju.
04:46
So what I'm proposing is,
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Ono što predlažem je,
04:48
just as we require reading, writing, arithmetic, American history,
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da isto kao što zahtjevamo čitanje, pisanje, računanje, povijest,
04:54
so we should have a curriculum on facts
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tako bi trebali imati i nastavni plan
04:58
about all the religions of the world --
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o svjetskim religijama --
05:00
about their history, about their creeds, about their texts,
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o njihovoj povijesti, pravilima, tekstovima,
05:06
their music, their symbolisms, their prohibitions, their requirements.
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glazbi, simbolima, zabranama, obavezama.
05:11
And this should be presented factually, straightforwardly,
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To bi trebalo prezentirati preko činjenica, izravno
05:16
with no particular spin, to all of the children in the country.
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bez posebnog "spina", svoj djeci u zemlji.
05:23
And as long as you teach them that,
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Ukoliko ih time podučavate,
05:26
you can teach them anything else you like.
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možete ih podučavati i svemu ostalom.
05:29
That, I think, is maximal tolerance for religious freedom.
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To je, mislim, maksimalna tolerancija spram religijske slobode.
05:34
As long as you inform your children about other religions,
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Ukoliko djecu podučavate ostalim religijama
05:39
then you may -- and as early as you like and whatever you like --
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tada ih možete -- koliko to rano želite i što god želite,
05:42
teach them whatever creed you want them to learn.
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podučavati bilo kojim smjernicama koje želite da nauče.
05:45
But also let them know about other religions.
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Ali ih i pustite da znaju o drugim religijama.
05:48
Now why do I say that?
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Zašto to govorim?
05:52
Because democracy depends on an informed citizenship.
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Jer demokracija ovisi o upućenosti građana.
05:59
Informed consent is the very bedrock
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Upućeni pristanak je temelj
06:02
of our understanding of democracy.
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našeg razumijevanja demokracije.
06:06
Misinformed consent is not worth it.
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Neupućeni pristanak nije vrijedan.
06:10
It's like a coin flip; it doesn't count really.
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To je poput bacanja novčića, jednostavno nije -- ne broji se.
06:13
Democracy depends on informed consent.
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Demokracija ovisi o informiranosti.
06:16
This is the way we treat people as responsible adults.
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To je način da ljude tretiramo kao odgovorna bića.
06:20
Now, children below the age of consent are a special case.
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Malodobna djeca su poseban slučaj.
06:30
I'm going to use a word that Pastor Rick just used --
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Upotrijebiti ću riječ koju je upotrijebio pastor Rick --
06:36
parents are stewards of their children.
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roditelji su djetetovi skrbnici.
06:38
They don't own them.
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Oni ih ne posjeduju.
06:41
You can't own your children.
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Ne možete posjedovati svoju djecu.
06:43
You have a responsibility to the world,
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Vi imate odgovornost prema svijetu,
06:46
to the state, to them, to take care of them right.
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prema državi, prema njima, da se brinete za njih.
06:52
You may teach them whatever creed you think is most important,
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Možete ih podučavati bilo kojim pravilima vi mislili da su najvažnija,
06:58
but I say you have a responsibility to let them be informed
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ali ja kažem da imate odgovornost da im osigurate informiranost
07:03
about all the other creeds in the world, too.
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i o drugim idejama na svijetu.
07:07
The reason I've taken this time is I've been fascinated to hear
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Razlog što sam si uzeo ovo vrijeme je što sam fasciniran
07:11
some of the reactions to this.
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nekim reakcijama koje čujem na ovo.
07:14
One reviewer for a Roman Catholic newspaper called it "totalitarian."
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Jedan ocjenjivač za Rimokatoličke novine to je nazvao "totalitarno".
07:21
It strikes me as practically libertarian.
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To mi je gotovo libertarijanski.
07:26
Is it totalitarian to require reading, writing and arithmetic?
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Je li totalitarno zahtjevati čitanje, pisanje i računanje?
07:29
I don't think so.
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Mislim da nije.
07:31
All I'm saying is -- facts. Facts only.
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Sve što tražim su -- činjenice. Samo činjenice.
07:35
No values, just facts about all the world's religions.
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Bez vrijednosti, samo činjenice o svjetskim religijama.
07:41
Another reviewer called it "hilarious."
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Drugi je to nazvao "smiješnim".
07:44
Well, I'm really bothered by the fact
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Pa, stvarno me smeta
07:48
that anybody would think that was hilarious.
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da bi bilo tko pomislio kako je to smiješno.
07:51
It seems to me to be such a plausible,
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Čini mi se da je to vjerojatan,
07:55
natural extension of the democratic principles we already have,
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prirodni produžetak demokratskih načela koje već imamo,
07:59
that I'm shocked to think anybody would find that just ridiculous.
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da sam šokiran time da to netko smatra smiješnim.
08:05
I know many religions are so anxious about preserving the purity
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Znam da se mnoge religije trude očuvati čistoću
08:12
of their faith among their children that they are intent
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vjere preko svoje djece da su naumili
08:17
on keeping their children ignorant of other faiths.
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držati ih u neznanju o drugim vjerama.
08:22
I don't think that's defensible, but I'd really be pleased
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Ne mislim da je to dobar razlog, ali bi stvarno volio
08:26
to get your answers on that -- any reactions to that -- later.
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da dobijem o tome vaše odgovore -- bilo kakvu reakciju na to -- kasnije.
08:29
But now I'm going to move on.
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Ali sad ću nastaviti.
08:31
Back to the cow.
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Vratimo se kravi.
08:33
This picture, which I pulled off the web --
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Ovu sliku, koju sam uzeo s interneta --
08:36
the fellow on the left is really an important part of this picture.
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dečko s lijeva je stvarno bitan dio ove slike.
08:39
That's the steward.
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to je skrbnik.
08:41
Cows couldn't live without human stewards -- they're domesticated.
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Krave ne bi trebale živjeti bez ljudske skrbi -- one su pripitomljene.
08:46
They're a sort of ectosymbiont.
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To je svojevrsna moć simbioze.
08:50
They depend on us for their survival.
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Njihovo preživljavanje ovisi o nama.
08:55
And Pastor Rick was just talking about sheep.
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I pastor Rick je govorio o ovcama.
08:58
I'm going to talk about sheep, too.
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I ja ću govoriti o ovcama.
09:00
There's a lot of serendipitous convergence here.
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Baš je to sretna slučajnosti.
09:04
How clever it was of sheep to acquire shepherds!
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Kako je od ovaca bilo pametno što su si nabavile skrbnike!
09:10
Think of what this got them.
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Zamislite što im je to donijelo.
09:12
They could outsource all their problems --
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Riješili su sve svoje probleme:
09:15
protection from predators, food finding, health maintenance.
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zaštićene su od grabežljivaca, daje im se hrana, brine se o njihovom zdravlju.
09:22
The only cost in most flocks is a loss of free mating.
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Jedina cijena većine stada je gubitak slobode parenja.
09:29
What a deal.
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Dobra pogodba.
09:31
"How clever of sheep!" you might say.
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"Kako su samo pametne te ovce!" mogli biste reći.
09:33
Except, of course, it wasn't the sheep's cleverness.
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Osim, naravno, ako to nije bila ovčja pamet.
09:35
We all know sheep are not exactly rocket scientists -- they're not very smart.
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Svi znamo da one baš i nisu vrhunski znanstvenici -- nisu jako pametne.
09:40
It wasn't the cleverness of the sheep at all.
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To uopće nije bila njihova pamet.
09:43
They were clueless.
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Nisu imale pojma.
09:45
But it was a very clever move.
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Ali, bio je to vrlo pametan potez.
09:48
Whose clever move was it?
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Čiji pametan potez?
09:50
It was a clever move of natural selection itself.
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Bio je to pametan potez same prirodne selekcije.
09:53
Francis Crick, the co-discoverer of the structure of DNA
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Francis Crick, suotkrivač strukture DNK
09:59
with Jim Watson, once joked about what he called Orgel's Second Rule.
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sa Jimom Watsonom, jednom se našalio s nečim što je nazvao Orgelovo drugo pravilo.
10:04
Leslie Orgel is still a molecular biologist, brilliant guy,
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Leslie Orgel je još uvijek molekularni biolog, predivna osoba,
10:10
and Orgel's Second Rule is: Evolution is cleverer than you are.
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a njegovo je drugo pravilo: evolucija je pametnija od vas samih.
10:14
Now, that is not Intelligent Design -- not from Francis Crick.
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I sada, to nije inteligentni dizajn -- ne od Francisa Cricka
10:21
Evolution is cleverer than you are.
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Evolucija je pametnija od vas samih.
10:23
If you understand Orgel's Second Rule, then you understand
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Ako razumijeta Orgelovo drugo pravilo, onda razumijete
10:26
why the Intelligent Design movement is basically a hoax.
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zašto je inteligentni dizajn obična prijevara.
10:33
The designs discovered by the process of natural selection
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Dizajni koji su nastali kao posljedica prirodne selekcije
10:37
are brilliant, unbelievably brilliant.
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su brilijantni, nevjerojatno brilijantni.
10:40
Again and again biologists are fascinated with the brilliance of what's discovered.
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Iznova i iznova biolozi su fascinirani brilijantnošću onog što otkrivaju.
10:45
But the process itself is without purpose,
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Ali sam proces je bez svrhe,
10:48
without foresight, without design.
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bez planiranja, bez dizajna.
10:51
When I was here four years ago,
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Kada sam prije četiri godine bio ovdje,
10:53
I told the story about an ant climbing a blade of grass.
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ispričao sam priču o mravu koji se penje uz vlat trave.
10:55
And why was the ant doing it?
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Zašto je to mrav radio?
10:57
Well, it's because its brain had been infected with a lancet fluke that was --
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Pa, zato jer je njegov um bio inficiran lancetnim iverkom koji je --
11:02
needed to get into the belly of a sheep or a cow in order to reproduce.
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trebao dospjeti u želudac ovce ili krave u svrhu reprodukcije.
11:07
It was sort of a spooky story.
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Bila je to pomalo stravična priča.
11:09
And I think some people may have misunderstood.
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I mislim da su je neki ljudi krivo shvatili.
11:11
Lancet flukes aren't smart.
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Lancetni iverak nije pametan.
11:13
I submit that the intelligence of a lancet fluke is down there
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Tvrdio sam da je njegova inteligencija ovdje dolje
11:18
somewhere between petunia and carrot.
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negdje između petunije i mrkve.
11:20
They're not really bright. They don't have to be.
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Oni nisu stvarno pametni. Ni ne trebaju biti.
11:22
The lesson we learn from this is
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Lekcija koju smo ovdje naučili je
11:24
you don't have to have a mind to be a beneficiary.
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kako ne trebamo biti pametni da bi bili povlašteni.
11:27
The design is there in nature, but it's not in anybody's head.
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Dizajn se nalazi u prirodi, ali nije u ničijoj glavi.
11:32
It doesn't have to be.
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Ni ne treba biti.
11:34
That's the way evolution works.
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Tako radi evolucija.
11:36
The question -- was domestication good for sheep?
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Pitanje -- da li je pripitomljavanje bilo dobro za ovce?
11:38
It was great for their genetic fitness.
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Bilo je sjajno za njihov genetički rast.
11:40
And here I want to remind you of a wonderful point
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Ovdje vas želim podsjetiti na jednu zanimljivu misao
11:44
that Paul MacCready made at TED three years ago.
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koju je stvorio Paul MacCready na TED-u prije tri godine.
11:47
Here's what he said.
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Rekao je sljedeće.
11:49
10,000 years ago at the dawn of agriculture,
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Prije 10,000 godina u svitanju agrikulture,
11:52
human population, plus livestock and pets, was approximately
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Ljudska populacija, sa stokom i kućnim ljubimcima, bila je približno
11:55
a tenth of one per cent of the terrestrial vertebrae landmass.
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0,1 posto biomase zemaljskih kralježnjaka.
12:00
That was just 10,000 years ago.
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To je bilo samo prije 10,000 godina
12:02
Yesterday, in biological terms.
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U biološkim terminima, to je bilo jučer.
12:05
What is it today? Does anybody remember what he told us?
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Koliko je to danas? Sjeća li se itko što nam je rekao?
12:09
98 percent.
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98 posto.
12:11
That is what we have done on this planet.
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To je što smo napravili na ovom planetu.
12:14
Now, I talked to Paul afterwards.
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Razgovarao sam kasnija sa Paulom.
12:16
I wanted to check to find out how he'd calculated this,
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Htio sam saznati kako je to on izračunao,
12:18
and get the sources and so forth.
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dobiti izvore i tako dalje.
12:20
And he gave me a paper that he had written on this.
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Dao mi je papir na kojem je to zapisao.
12:23
There was a passage in it which he did not present here
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U njemu je bio odlomak koji ovdje nije iznosio
12:25
and I think it is so good I'm going to read it to you.
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i mislim da je toliko dabar da ću vam ga pročitati
12:28
"Over billions of years on a unique sphere,
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"Tijekom milijuna godina na jedinstvenoj kugli,
12:31
chance has painted a thin covering of life:
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prilike su nanjele tanak sloj života:
12:34
complex, improbable, wonderful and fragile.
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složen, nevjerojatan, predivan i krhak.
12:38
Suddenly, we humans, a recently arrived species
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Iznenada, mi ljudi, novopridošla vrsta
12:41
no longer subject to the checks and balances inherent in nature,
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koja više ne podliježe prirodnim zakonitostima,
12:44
have grown in population, technology and intelligence to a position of terrible power.
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izrasla je u brojnosti, tehnologiji i inteligenciji do strašne razine moći.
12:49
We now wield the paintbrush."
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Sada mi držimo kist."
12:52
We heard about the atmosphere as a thin layer of varnish.
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Čuli smo o atmosferi kao tankom prozirnom sloju.
12:55
Life itself is just a thin coat of paint on this planet.
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Sam život je tanak sloj boje na ovom planetu.
12:59
And we're the ones that hold the paintbrush.
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A mi smo oni koji drže kist.
13:01
And how can we do that?
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Kako nam to uspjeva?
13:04
The key to our domination of the planet is culture,
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Ključ za svjetskom dominacijom leži u kulturi,
13:08
and the key to culture is religion.
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a ključ kulture je religija.
13:11
Suppose Martian scientists came to Earth.
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Pretpostavimo da Marsovski znanstvenici dođu na zemlju.
13:14
They would be puzzled by many things.
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Čudili bi se mnogim stvarima.
13:19
Anybody know what this is?
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Zna li netko što je ovo?
13:21
I'll tell you what it is.
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Reći ću vam.
13:23
This is a million people gathering on the banks of the Ganges in 2001,
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To je milijun ljudi okupljenih na obalama Gangesa 2001,
13:27
perhaps the largest single gathering of human beings ever,
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možda najveće okupljanje ljudi ikad,
13:31
as seen from satellite photograph.
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kao što vidimo na satelitskoj snimci.
13:33
Here's a big crowd.
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Velika je gužva.
13:34
Here's another crowd in Mecca.
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Evo još jedne gužve u Meki.
13:36
Martians would be amazed by this.
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Marsovci bi bili zapanjeni.
13:39
They'd want to know how it originated, what it was for and how it perpetuates itself.
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Ne bi znali kako je to organizirano, što je svrha i kako se ponavlja.
13:44
Actually, I'm going to pass over this.
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Zapravo ću ovo preskočiti.
13:47
The ant isn't alone.
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Mrav nije sam.
13:49
There's all sorts of wonderful cases of species.
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Ima mnogo slučajeva među vrstama.
13:52
In that case, a parasite gets into a mouse
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U ovom slučaju parazit ulazi u miša
13:58
and it needs to get into the belly of a cat.
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i treba dospjeti u probavni sustav mačke.
14:00
And it turns the mouse into Mighty Mouse -- it makes it fearless,
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Pretvara miša u Super Miša -- stvara ga neustrašivim,
14:02
so it runs out in the open, where it'll be eaten by a cat.
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pa tako trči na otvorenom, gdje će ga pojesti mačka.
14:05
True story.
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Istinita priča.
14:07
In other words, we have these hijackers --
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Drugim riječima, mi imamo ove putnike --
14:09
you've seen this slide before, from four years ago --
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vidjeli ste već ovu sliku prije četiri godine --
14:12
a parasite that infects the brain
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parazit koji inficira mozak
14:14
and induces even suicidal behavior on behalf of a cause
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i inducira samoubilačko ponašanje
14:17
other than one's own genetic fitness.
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koje nije u interesu vaših gena.
14:19
Does that ever happen to us?
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Da li se to ikada događa nama?
14:22
Yes, it does -- quite wonderfully.
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Da, događa se -- i to prilično fascinantno.
14:27
The Arabic word "Islam" means "submission."
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Arapska riječ "islam" znači pokornost.
14:29
It means "surrender of self-interest to the will of Allah."
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Znači predaju vlastitog interesa volji Allaha.
14:32
But I'm not just talking about Islam.
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Međutim, ne govorim samo o islamu.
14:34
I'm talking also about Christianity.
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Govorim i o kršćanstvu.
14:36
This is a parchment music page that I found in a Paris bookstall 50 years ago.
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Ovo je pergament koju sam pronašao u Parizu prije 50 godina.
14:41
And on it it says, in Latin:
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I na njoj piše, na latinskom:
14:44
"Semen est verbum Dei. Sator autem Christus.
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(Latinski)
14:47
The word of God is the seed and the sower of the seed is Christ."
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"Riječ Božja je sjeme, a žanje ga Krist."
14:51
Same idea! Well, not quite.
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Ista ideja! Zapravo i ne baš.
14:53
But in fact, Christians, too, glory in the fact that they have surrendered to God.
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Ali u biti, to je Kršćanski hvalospjev činjenici da su se predali Bogu.
15:02
I'll give you a few quotes.
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Navesti ću nekoliko navoda.
15:03
"The heart of worship is surrender.
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Srce bogoslužja je predaja.
15:06
Surrendered people obey God's words, even if it doesn't make sense."
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Predani ljudi slušaju Božje riječi i kada one nemaju smisla."
15:11
Those words are by Rick Warren.
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To su riječi Ricka Warrena.
15:13
Those are from "The Purpose Driven Life."
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One su iz knjige "Život vođen smislom".
15:17
And I want to turn now, briefly, to talk about that book, which I've read.
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Sada bi rekao par riječi o toj knjizi, koju sam pročitao.
15:20
You've all got a copy.
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Svi imate primjerak.
15:22
You've just heard the man.
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Upravo ste čuli čovjeka.
15:24
And what I want to do now is say a bit about this book from the design standpoint,
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Želim vam reći ponešto o ovoj knjizi sa stajališta dizajna,
15:29
because I think it's actually a brilliant book.
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jer mislim da je ovo stvarno dobra knjiga.
15:32
First of all, the goal.
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Prije svega, cilj.
15:34
And you heard just now what the goal is.
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A upravo ste čuli što je cilj.
15:36
It's to bring purpose to the lives of millions, and he has succeeded.
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Cilj je bio naći svrhu života za milijune ljudi, i uspio je.
15:39
Is it a good goal?
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Da li je to dobar cilj?
15:41
In itself, I'm sure we all agree, it is a wonderful goal.
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Sam po sebi, siguran sam da se slažemo, to je dobar cilj.
15:43
He's absolutely right.
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On je apsolutno u pravu.
15:45
There are lots of people out there who don't have purpose in their life,
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Ima mnogo ljudi koji nemaju cilj u životu,
15:48
and bringing purpose to their life is a wonderful goal.
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a donošenje cilja njihovim životima je odličan cilj.
15:51
I give him an A+ on this.
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Dajem mu +5 za to.
15:55
Is the goal achieved?
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Je li cilj postignut?
15:58
Yes.
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Da.
16:00
30 million copies of this book.
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30 milijuna prodanih primjeraka.
16:05
Al Gore, eat your heart out.
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Ale Gore, svisni od muke.
16:07
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
16:10
Just exactly what Al is trying to do, Rick is doing.
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Upravo ono što je htio Al, napravio je Rick.
16:14
This is a fantastic achievement.
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Do je zapanjujuće postignuće.
16:17
And, the means -- how does he do it?
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A način -- kako je to postigao?
16:22
It's a brilliant redesign of traditional religious themes --
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To je predivni redizajn tradicionalne religije --
16:25
updating them, quietly dropping obsolete features,
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ažurirajući ih, potiho sklanjajući zastarjele načine,
16:28
putting new interpretations on other features.
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pronalazeći nove interpretacije njihovih potvrda.
16:30
This is the evolution of religion that's been going on for thousands of years,
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To je religijska revolucija na koju smo čekali tisućama godina,
16:33
and he's just the latest brilliant practitioner of it.
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a on je zadnji praktičar toga.
16:38
I don't have to tell you this.
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Nisam vam to trebao reći.
16:40
You've just heard the man.
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Upravo ste čuli čovjeka.
16:42
Excellent insights into human psychology, wise advice on every page.
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Izvrstan uvid u ljudsku psihologiju, mudar savjet na svakoj stranici.
16:46
Moreover, he invites us to look under the hood.
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Štoviše, pozvao nas je da pogledamo ispod haube.
16:50
I really appreciated that.
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To stvarno cijenim.
16:52
For instance, he has an appendix where he explains
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Kao primjer, postoji dodatak u kojem objašnjava
16:54
his choice of translations of different Bible verses.
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svoj izbor između različitih prijevoda Biblije.
16:57
The book is clear, vivid, accessible, beautifully formatted.
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Knjiga je jasna, pristupačna, prelijepo dizajnirana.
17:04
Just enough repetition.
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Sasvim dovoljno ponavljanja.
17:06
That's really important.
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To je vrlo važno.
17:08
Every time you read it or say it, you make another copy in your brain.
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Svaki put kada je pročitate ili izgovorite, stvarate novu kopiju u mozgu.
17:13
Every time you read it or say it, you make another copy in your brain.
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Svaki put kada je pročitate ili izgovorite, stvarate novu kopiju u mozgu.
17:17
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
17:18
With me, everybody -- every time you read it or say it,
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Ponovite sa mnom: Svaki put kada je pročitate ili izgovorite,
17:22
you make another copy in your brain.
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stvarate novu kopiju u mozgu.
17:24
Thank you.
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Hvala.
17:26
And now we come to my problem.
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A sad dolazimo do mog problema
17:28
Because I'm absolutely sincere in my appreciation
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Jer sam potpuno iskren u svom poštivanju
17:32
of all that I've said about this book.
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prema svemu što sam rekao o ovoj knjizi.
17:34
But I wish it were better.
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Ali bih volio da je bilo bolje.
17:36
I have some problems with the book.
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Imam nekih problema s knjigom.
17:38
And it would just be insincere of me not to address those problems.
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I bilo bi neodgovorno od mene da to ne istaknem.
17:42
I wish he could do this with a revision,
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Volio bih da je ovo napravio s revizijom,
17:46
a Mark 2 version of his book.
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drugom izdanju knjige.
17:50
"The truth will set you free" --
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"Istina će vas osloboditi." --
17:52
that's what it says in the Bible, and it's something that I want to live by, too.
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to je ono što kaže Biblija, i to je nešto u što želim vjerovati.
17:57
My problem is, some of the bits in it I don't think are true.
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Moj je problem za neke pojmove nisam siguran da su istiniti.
18:02
Now some of this is a difference of opinion,
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Nešto od toga je razlika u mišljenju,
18:07
and that's not my main complaint.
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i to nije moj glavni prigovor.
18:09
That's worth mentioning.
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To vrijedi spomenuti.
18:11
Here's a passage -- it's very much what he said, anyway.
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Ovo je odlomak -- govori mnogo o tome što je htio reći.
18:13
"If there was no God we would all be accidents,
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"Kada ne bi bilo Boga svi bismo bili slučajnost,
18:15
the result of astronomical random chance in the Universe.
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rezultat astronomske slučajnosti u Svemiru.
18:18
You could stop reading this book because life
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Trebali biste prestati čitati ovi knjigu jer život
18:21
would have no purpose or meaning or significance.
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nebi imao svrhe, smisla niti značenja.
18:24
There would be no right or wrong and no hope beyond your brief years on Earth."
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Ne bi bilo pravilnog ili krivog i ne bi bilo nade u životu provedenom na Zemlji."
18:27
Now, I just do not believe that.
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Ja jednostavno u to ne vjerujem.
18:29
By the way, I find Homer Groening's film
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Naime, film Homera Groeninga
18:33
presented a beautiful alternative to that very claim.
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predstavlja bolju alternativu toj tvrdnji.
18:37
Yes, there is meaning and a reason for right or wrong.
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Da, postoji razlog za pravo i krivo.
18:41
We don't need a belief in God to be good or to have meaning in us.
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Ne trebamo vjerovati u boga da bi bili bolji ili imali svrhu.
18:47
But that is just a difference of opinion.
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Ali to je samo razlika u mišljenju.
18:52
That's not what I'm really worried about.
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To nije ono o čemu trenutno brinem
18:54
How about this -- "God designed this planet's environment just so we could live in it."
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Što mislite o ovome: "Bog je stvorio ovaj planet samo kako bi mi živjeli na njemu."
19:00
I'm afraid that a lot of people take that sentiment to mean
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Bojim se da mnogi dobivaju taj osjećaj
19:05
that we don't have to do the sorts of things that Al Gore
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da ne trebamo raditi ono što nam Al Gore
19:07
is trying so hard to get us to do.
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toliko uporno želi nametnuti.
19:09
I'm not happy with that sentiment at all.
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Uopće nisam sretan zbog tog osjećaja.
19:12
And then I find this -- "All the evidence available in the biological sciences
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A onda sam pronašao ovo: "Svi dokazi koji su dostupni biolozima
19:16
supports the core proposition that the cosmos is especially designed whole
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podržavaju osnovnu tvrdnju da je svemir posebno dizajniran kao cjelina
19:20
with life and mankind as its fundamental goal and purpose,
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sa životom i ljudskom vrstom koja mu je krajnji cilj i svrha,
19:23
a whole in which all facets of reality have their meaning
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cjelina u kojoj sva naličja stvarnosti imaju svoj smisao
19:25
and explanation in this central fact."
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i objašnjenje u toj središnjoj činjenici."
19:27
Well, that's Michael Denton. He's a creationist.
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Pa, to je Michael Denton. On je kreacionist.
19:30
And here I think, "Wait a minute."
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I tu pomišljam, "Čekaj malo."
19:33
I read this again.
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Ponovno čitam.
19:35
I read it three or four times and I think,
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Pročitao sam to tri ili četiri puti i pomislio,
19:37
"Is he really endorsing intelligent design?
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"Da li on to stvarno promiče inteligentni dizajn?
19:39
Is he endorsing creationism here?"
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Je li ovdje podržao kreacionizam?"
19:41
And you can't tell.
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I ne možete biti sigurni.
19:43
So I'm sort of thinking, "Well, I don't know,
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Pa pomislim nešto poput, "Pa, ne znam,
19:45
I don't know if I want to get upset with this yet."
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nisam siguran da se ovime trenutno želim zamarati."
19:47
But then I read on and I read this: "First, Noah had never seen rain,
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Zatim sam čitao dalje i pročitao -- "Prvo, Noa nije nikad vidio kišu,
19:51
because prior to the flood God irrigated the earth from the ground up."
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jer je Bog prije potopa navodnjavao zemlju iz zemlje."
19:56
I wish that sentence weren't in there, because I think it is false.
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Volio bi da te rečenice nema tamo jer mislim da je neistinita.
20:01
And I think that thinking this way about the history of the planet,
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I mislim kako je razmišljanje o povijesti na ovaj način,
20:04
after we've just been hearing about the history
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netom što smo čuli o prošlosti
20:07
of the planet over millions of years,
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planeta tijekom milijuna godina,
20:11
discourages people from scientific understanding.
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udaljuje ljude od znanstvenog razumijevanja.
20:14
Now, Rick Warren uses scientific terms and scientific factoids
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Rick Warren koristi znanstvene termine, činjenice
20:22
and information in a very interesting way.
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i informacije na jedan vrlo zanimljiv način.
20:25
Here's one: "God deliberately shaped and formed you to serve him
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Evo jednog -- "Bog te namjerno oblikuje da mu služiš,
20:28
in a way that makes your ministry unique.
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na način da to služenje bude jedinstveno.
20:30
He carefully mixed the DNA cocktail that created you."
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Pomno je zamiješao DNK koktel koji te stvorio."
20:37
I think that's false.
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Mislim da je to neistina.
20:40
Now maybe we want to treat it as metaphorical.
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Ali možda to želimo smatrati metaforom.
20:43
Here's another one -- "For instance, your brain can store 100 trillion facts.
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Evo još jednog: "Na primjer, tvoj mozak može spremiti 100 bilijuna činjenica.
20:47
Your mind can handle 15,000 decisions a second."
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Tvoj um može baratati sa 15 000 odluka u sekundi."
20:50
Well, it would be interesting to find the interpretation where I would accept that.
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Pa, bilo bi lijepo pronaći način na koji bi mogao prihvatiti tu tvrdnju.
20:54
There might be some way of treating that as true.
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Možda postoji neki način da se to smatra istinom.
20:57
"Anthropologists have noted that worship is a universal urge,
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"Antropolozi su primijetili da je obožavanje univerzalni nagon,
21:01
hardwired by God into the very fiber of our being,
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ugrađen od strane Boga u samu srž našeg bića,
21:04
an inbuilt need to connect with God."
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urođena potreba za povezivanja s Bogom."
21:08
Well, there's a sense which I agree with him,
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Pa, tu je smisao oko kojeg se slažem s njim,
21:10
except I think it has an evolutionary explanation.
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osim što mislim da se objašnjenje nalazi u evoluciji.
21:12
And what I find deeply troubling in this book
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A ono što smatram jako problematičnim u ovoj knjizi
21:16
is that he seems to be arguing that if you want to be moral,
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je to što se u njoj raspravlja da ako želiš bit moralan,
21:20
if you want to have meaning in your life,
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ako želiš imati smisao u životu,
21:22
you have to be an Intelligent Designer -- you have to deny
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moraš biti pristaša Inteligentnog dizajna - moraš poricati
21:26
the theory of evolution by natural selection.
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teoriju evolucije prirodnim odabirom.
21:29
And I think, on the contrary, that it is very important to solving
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Ja naprotiv mislim da je vrlo važno za rješavanje
21:32
the world's problems that we take evolutionary biology seriously.
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svjetskih problema da ozbiljno shvatimo evolucijsku biologiju.
21:37
Whose truth are we going to listen to?
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Čiju čemo istinu prihvatiti?
21:40
Well, this from "The Purpose Driven Life" --
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Ovu iz "Života vođenog smislom":
21:43
"The Bible must become the authoritative standard for my life,
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"Biblija treba postati najviši prioritet mog života,
21:46
the compass I rely on for direction, the counsel I listen to
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kompas od kojeg tražim smjer, savjetnika kojeg slušam kako bi
21:49
for making wise decisions and the benchmark I use for evaluating everything."
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donosio mudre odluke i s kojim bi sve drugo uspoređivao."
21:53
Well maybe, OK, but what's going to follow from this?
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Pa možda, u redu, ali što iz ovog slijedi?
21:58
And here's one that does concern me.
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A ovdje je jedan koji me brine.
22:02
Remember I quoted him before with this line --
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Zapamtite da sam ovo već citirao --
22:05
"Surrendered people obey God's word, even if it doesn't make sense."
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"Predani ljudi štuju Božju riječ, iako ona nema smisla."
22:10
And that's a problem.
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U tome je problem.
22:15
"Don't ever argue with the Devil.
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"Nemoj nikad raspravljati s vragom.
22:17
He's better at arguing than you are, having had thousands of years to practice."
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Bolji je u tome od tebe, jer je imao tisuće godina vježbe."
22:21
Now Rick Warren didn't invent this clever move.
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Ali Rick Warren nije izmislio taj mudri potez.
22:25
It's an old move.
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To je stara stvar.
22:27
It's a very clever adaptation of religions.
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To je vrlo pametna religijska adaptacija.
22:30
It's a wildcard for disarming any reasonable criticism.
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To je džoker za razoružavanje svake realne kritike.
22:35
"You don't like my interpretation?
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"Ne sviđa vam se moja interpretacija?
22:37
You've got a reasonable objection to it?
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Imate razuman prigovor?
22:39
Don't listen, don't listen!
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Ne slušajte ga, ne slušajte.
22:41
That's the Devil speaking."
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To govori Vrag."
22:44
This discourages the sort of reasoning citizenship
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Takav stav nas udaljuje od razumnosti
22:49
it seems to me that we want to have.
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koju, čini mi se, želimo.
22:52
I've got one more problem, then I'm through.
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Za kraj, imam još jedan problem.
22:55
And I'd really like to get a response if Rick is able to do it.
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I stvarno bih želio odgovor ako je Rick to u stanju.
23:00
"In the Great Commission, Jesus said, 'Go to all people of all nations
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"U velikoj poruci Isus je rekao, Odite svim ljudima svih nacija
23:03
and make them my disciples. Baptize them in the name of the Father,
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i učinite ih mojim učenicima, krstite ih u ime Oca,
23:06
the Son and the Holy Spirit, and teach them to do everything I've told you.'"
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Sina i Duha Svetoga, podučite ih svemu što sam vam rekao."
23:09
The Bible says Jesus is the only one who can save the world.
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Biblija kaže kako je Isus jedini spasitelj svijeta.
23:14
Now here we've seen many wonderful maps of the world
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Ovdje smo vidjeli mnogo predivnih krajeva svijeta
23:17
in the last day or so.
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u posljednjih par dana.
23:19
Here's one, not as beautiful as the others.
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Ovdje je jedan, ne tako lijep kao drugi.
23:21
It simply shows the religions of the world.
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Jednostavno prikazuje svjetske religije.
23:24
And here's one that shows the sort of current breakdown of the different religions.
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A ovdje je jedan koji prikazuje trenutačnu razdiobu različitih religija.
23:29
Now do we really want to commit ourselves to engulfing
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Želimo li stvarno učiniti ujediniti
23:38
all the other religions when their holy books are telling them,
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sve ostale religije kada im njihove svete knjige govore
23:44
"Don't listen to the other side, that's just Satan talking!"
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"Ne slušaj drugu stranu, to Vrag govori!"
23:49
It seems to me that that's a very problematic ship
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Čini mi se da je to veoma nepouzdan brod
23:55
to get on for the future.
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na putu za budućnost.
23:58
I found this sign as I was driving to Maine recently,
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Pronašao sam ovaj zapis nedavno, kada sam vozio u Maine,
24:03
in front of a church -- "Good without God becomes zero."
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ispred crkve: "Dobrota bez Boga je ništa."
24:05
Sort of cute.
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Simpatična igra riječi [na engleskom].
24:07
A very clever little meme.
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Pametan mali "mem".
24:11
I don't believe it and I think this idea, popular as it is -- not in this guise
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Ne mislim da je to istina i mislim da je ta ideja, iako popularna
24:18
but in general -- is itself one of the main problems that we face.
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glavni problem s kojim smo suočeni.
24:22
If you are like me, you know many wonderful, committed, engaged
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Ako ste poput mene, poznajete mnogo divnih, predanih, angažiranih
24:29
atheists, agnostics, who are being very good without God.
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ateista i agnostika, koji su vrlo dobri i bez boga.
24:35
And you also know many religious people who hide behind their sanctity
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I isto tako možda znate mnoge ljude koji se skrivaju iza svoje svetosti
24:40
instead of doing good works.
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umjesto da rade dobra djela.
24:42
So, I wish we could drop this meme.
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Zato bih volio da odbacimo ovaj mem.
24:46
I wish this meme would go extinct.
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Želim da taj mem izumre.
24:48
Thanks very much for your attention.
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Puno vam hvala na pozornosti.
24:50
(Applause)
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(Pljesak)
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Dan Dennett - Philosopher, cognitive scientistDan Dennett thinks that human consciousness and free will are the result of physical processes.
Why you should listen
One of our most important living philosophers, Dan Dennett is best known for his provocative and controversial arguments that human consciousness and free will are the result of physical processes in the brain. He argues that the brain's computational circuitry fools us into thinking we know more than we do, and that what we call consciousness — isn't. His 2003 book "Freedom Evolves" explores how our brains evolved to give us -- and only us -- the kind of freedom that matters, while 2006's "Breaking the Spell" examines belief through the lens of biology.
This mind-shifting perspective on the mind itself has distinguished Dennett's career as a philosopher and cognitive scientist. And while the philosophy community has never quite known what to make of Dennett (he defies easy categorization, and refuses to affiliate himself with accepted schools of thought), his computational approach to understanding the brain has made him, as Edge's John Brockman writes, “the philosopher of choice of the AI community.”
“It's tempting to say that Dennett has never met a robot he didn't like, and that what he likes most about them is that they are philosophical experiments,” Harry Blume wrote in the Atlantic Monthly in 1998. “To the question of whether machines can attain high-order intelligence, Dennett makes this provocative answer: ‘The best reason for believing that robots might some day become conscious is that we human beings are conscious, and we are a sort of robot ourselves.'"
In recent years, Dennett has become outspoken in his atheism, and his 2006 book Breaking the Spell calls for religion to be studied through the scientific lens of evolutionary biology. Dennett regards religion as a natural -- rather than supernatural -- phenomenon, and urges schools to break the taboo against empirical examination of religion. He argues that religion's influence over human behavior is precisely what makes gaining a rational understanding of it so necessary: “If we don't understand religion, we're going to miss our chance to improve the world in the 21st century.”
Dennett's landmark books include The Mind's I, co-edited with Douglas Hofstaedter, Consciousness Explained, and Darwin's Dangerous Idea. Read an excerpt from his 2013 book, Intuition Pumps, in the Guardian >>
Dan Dennett | Speaker | TED.com