TED2003
Lee Smolin: Science and democracy
Li Smolin: Kako je nauka nalik demokratiji
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Fizičar Li Smolin govori o tome kako naučna zajednica funkcioniše: kako on kaže, ''mi se borimo i svađamo što više možemo'', ali svi prihvataju da će sledeća generacija naučnika odlučiti o tome ko je u pravu. I, on dodaje, tako funkcioniše i demokratija.
Lee Smolin - Physicist
Lee Smolin is a theoretical physicist, working mainly in the field of quantum gravity. He's a founding member of the Perimeter Institute for Theoretical Physics in Canada, and the author of The Trouble With Physics. Full bio
Lee Smolin is a theoretical physicist, working mainly in the field of quantum gravity. He's a founding member of the Perimeter Institute for Theoretical Physics in Canada, and the author of The Trouble With Physics. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:12
So, about three years ago I was in London,
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Pre otprilike tri godine sam bio u Londonu,
00:16
and somebody called Howard Burton came to me and said,
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i prišao mi je neki Hauard Burton i rekao,
00:21
I represent a group of people,
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zastupam grupu ljudi,
00:23
and we want to start an institute in theoretical physics.
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i mi želimo da osnujemo institut za teorijsku fiziku.
00:27
We have about 120 million dollars, and we want to do it well.
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Imamo oko USD 120 miliona i želimo da to radimo kako treba.
00:32
We want to be in the forefront fields,
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Želimo da se bavimo najaktuelnijim oblastima,
00:34
and we want to do it differently.
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i želimo da to radimo drugačije.
00:36
We want to get out of this thing
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Želimo da prekinemo ovakav način rada
00:38
where the young people have all the ideas, and the old people have all the power
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u kome mladi ljudi imaju sve ideje, a stari ljudi imaju svu moć
00:41
and decide what science gets done.
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i odlučuju o tome šta će se raditi.
00:44
It took me about 25 seconds to decide that that was a good idea.
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Bilo mi je potrebno oko 25 sekundi da shvatim da je to dobra ideja.
00:47
Three years later, we have the Perimeter Institute for Theoretical Physics
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Tri godine kasnije nastao je Perimeter Institut za teorijsku fiziku
00:52
in Waterloo, Ontario. It’s the most exciting job I’ve ever had.
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u Voterluu, Ontario. Ovo je najuzbudljiviji posao koji sam ikada imao.
00:57
And it’s the first time I’ve had a job where I’m afraid to go away
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I prvi put imam posao sa koga me je strah da budem odsutan
01:01
because of everything that’s going to happen in this week when I’m here.
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zbog svega što će se dogoditi u nedelji kada nisam tamo.
01:05
(Laughter)
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(Smeh)
01:07
But in any case, what I’m going to do in my little bit of time
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Ali u svakom slučaju, ono što ću raditi za ovo kratko vreme,
01:11
is take you on a quick tour of some of the things
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jeste da vas na brzinu provedem kroz neke od stvari
01:14
that we talk about and we think about.
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o kojima razgovaramo i o kojima razmišljamo.
01:17
So, we think a lot about what really makes science work?
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Znači mnogo razmišljamo o tome kako nauka stvarno radi?
01:20
The first thing that anybody who knows science,
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Prva stvar koju svako ko zna nauku,
01:23
and has been around science,
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i ko se bavio naukom,
01:24
is that the stuff you learn in school as a scientific method
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zna jeste da je stvar koja se uči u školi pod nazivom naučni metod
01:26
is wrong. There is no method.
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pogrešna. Ne postoji metod.
01:29
On the other hand, somehow we manage to reason together
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S druge strane, nekako uspevamo da razmišljamo zajedno,
01:33
as a community, from incomplete evidence
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kao zajednica, iz nepotpunih dokaza,
01:36
to conclusions that we all agree about.
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i da dođemo do zaključaka oko kojih se svi slažemo.
01:39
And this is, by the way, something that a democratic society also has to do.
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A to je, usput, nešto što demokratsko društvo takođe mora da radi.
01:43
So how does it work?
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Kako to funkcioniše?
01:45
Well, my belief is that it works
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Ja smatram da to radi
01:48
because scientists are a community bound together by an ethics.
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jer su naučnici zajednica povezana etikom.
01:52
And here are some of the ethical principles.
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A evo nekih od etičkih principa.
01:54
I’m not going to read them all to you because I’m not in teacher mode.
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Neću vam ih čitati sve jer trenutno nisam ovde kao nastavnik,
01:57
I’m in entertain, amaze mode.
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već želim da vas zabavim i zapanjim.
02:00
(Laughter)
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(Smeh)
02:03
But one of the principles is that everybody
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Ali jedan od principa jeste da svi
02:07
who is part of the community gets to fight and argue
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koji su deo zajednice imaju pravo da se bore i svađaju
02:10
as hard as they can for what they believe.
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što više mogu za ono u šta veruju.
02:13
But we’re all disciplined by the understanding
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Ali svi smo disciplinovani saznanjem
02:16
that the only people who are going to decide, you know,
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da su jedini ljudi koji će odlučiti, znate,
02:18
whether I’m right or somebody else is right,
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bilo da sam ja u pravu ili je neko drugi u pravu,
02:21
are the people in our community in the next generation,
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su ljudi iz naše zajednice iz sledeće generacije,
02:24
in 30 and 50 years.
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za 30 ili 50 godina.
02:26
So it’s this combination of respect
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Znači to je kombinacija poštovanja
02:29
for the tradition and community we’re in,
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tradicije i zajednice čiji smo član,
02:31
and rebellion that the community requires to get anywhere,
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i pobune koju zajednica zahteva da bi bilo šta postigla,
02:34
that makes science work.
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koja čini da nauka napreduje.
02:37
And being in this process of being in a community
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A biti u ovom procesu u zajednici
02:42
that reasons from shared evidence to conclusions,
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koja rezonuje na osnovu zajedničkih dokaza donoseći zaključke,
02:46
I believe, teaches us about democracy.
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verujem da nas uči o demokratiji.
02:50
Not only is there a relationship between the ethics of science
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Ne samo da postoji odnos između etike nauke
02:53
and the ethics of being a citizen in democracy,
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i etike građana u demokratiji,
02:56
but there has been, historically, a relationship
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već postoji, istorijski, odnos
02:59
between how people think about space and time, and what the cosmos is,
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između toga kako ljudi razmišljaju o prostoru i vremenu i o tome šta je kosmos,
03:05
and how people think about the society that they live in.
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i o tome kako ljudi razmišljaju o društvu u kome žive.
03:09
And I want to talk about three stages in that evolution.
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I želim da govorim o tri stupnja u toj evoluciji.
03:14
The first science of cosmology that was anything like science
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Prva nauka o kosmologiji koja je bila nešto nalik nauci,
03:18
was Aristotelian science, and that was hierarchical.
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je bila aristotelovska nauka, a ona je bila hijerarhijska.
03:22
The earth is in the center, then there are these crystal spheres,
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Zemlja je bila u sedištu, a onda su postojale kristalne sfere,
03:26
the sun, the moon, the planets and finally the celestial sphere,
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sunce, mesec, planete i konačno nebeska sfera,
03:30
where the stars are. And everything in this universe has a place.
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gde su se nalazile zvezde. I sve u ovom univerzumu ima mesto.
03:34
And Aristotle’s law of motion was that everything
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A Aristotelov zakon kretanja je navodio da sve
03:37
goes to its natural place, which was of course,
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ide na svoje prirodno mesto, što je naravno,
03:39
the rule of the society that Aristotle lived in,
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bio zakon društva u kome je živeo Aristotel,
03:43
and more importantly, the medieval society that, through Christianity,
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i još važnije, srednjevekovnog društva koje je kroz hrišćanstvo,
03:46
embraced Aristotle and blessed it.
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prihvatilo Aristotela i blagoslovilo ga.
03:50
And the idea is that everything is defined.
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Ideja je bila da je sve definisano.
03:53
Where something is, is defined with respect to this last sphere,
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Mesto gde se nešto nalazi, je definisano u odnosu na ovu poslednju sferu,
03:58
the celestial sphere, outside of which is this eternal,
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nebesku sferu, van koje je ovaj večni,
04:00
perfect realm, where lives God,
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savršeni svet, gde živi Bog,
04:03
who is the ultimate judge of everything.
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koji je krajnji sudija svega.
04:06
So that is both Aristotelian cosmology,
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I to je i Aristotelova kosmologija,
04:08
and in a certain sense, medieval society.
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i u izvesnom smislu, srednjevekovno društvo.
04:11
Now, in the 17th century there was a revolution in thinking about
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Sada, u 17. veku došlo je do revolucije u razmišljanju o
04:16
space and time and motion and so forth of Newton.
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prostoru i vremenu i kretanju, i tako dalje, od strane Njutna.
04:20
And at the same time there was a revolution in social thought
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A u isto vreme došlo je do revolucije u društvenom razmišljanju
04:24
of John Locke and his collaborators.
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Džona Loka i njegovih saradnika.
04:27
And they were very closely associated.
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I oni su bili veoma blisko povezani.
04:28
In fact, Newton and Locke were friends.
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Zapravo, Njutn i Lok su bili prijatelji.
04:31
Their way of thinking about space and time and motion on the one hand,
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Njihov način razmišljanja o prostoru i vremenu i kretanju s jedne strane,
04:36
and a society on the other hand, were closely related.
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i društvu s druge strane, bio je blisko povezan.
04:40
And let me show you.
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A evo da vam pokažem.
04:41
In a Newtonian universe, there’s no center -- thank you.
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U Njutnovom univerzumu, ne postoji središte - hvala.
04:46
There are particles and they move around
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Postoje čestice i one se kreću okolo
04:49
with respect to a fixed, absolute framework of space and time.
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u odnosu na fiksni, apsolutni okvir prostora i vremena.
04:54
It’s meaningful to say absolutely where something is in space,
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Ima smisla reći apsolutno gde je nešto u prostoru,
04:58
because that’s defined, not with respect to say, where other things are,
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jer ga to definiše, ne u odnosu na to gde su druge stvari,
05:02
but with respect to this absolute notion of space,
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već u odnosu na ovu apsolutnu ideju prostora,
05:04
which for Newton was God.
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koja je za Njutna bio Bog.
05:06
Now, similarly, in Locke’s society there are individuals
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Slično, u Lokovom društvu postoje neki pojedinci
05:11
who have certain rights, properties in a formal sense,
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koji imaju izvesna prava, osobine u formalnom smislu,
05:14
and those are defined with respect to some absolute,
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a one su definisane u odnosu na neke apsolutne,
05:18
abstract notions of rights and justice, and so forth,
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apstraktne ideje prava i pravde, i tako dalje,
05:22
which are independent of what else has happened in the society.
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koje su nezavisne od ostalog što se događa u društvu.
05:27
Of who else there is, of the history and so forth.
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Od koga god je takođe tu, od istorije i tako dalje.
05:30
There is also an omniscient observer
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Takođe postoji sveznajući posmatrač
05:33
who knows everything, who is God,
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koji sve zna, koji je Bog,
05:35
who is in a certain sense outside the universe,
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koji je u izvesnom smislu van univerzuma,
05:38
because he has no role in anything that happens,
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jer nema ulogu u bilo čemu što se događa,
05:40
but is in a certain sense everywhere,
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ali je u izvesnom smislu svugde,
05:42
because space is just the way that God knows
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jer je svemir samo način na koji Bog zna
05:45
where everything is, according to Newton, OK?
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gde se sve nalazi, prema Njutnu, OK?
05:49
So this is the foundations of what’s called, traditionally,
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Znači ovo je osnova onoga što se naziva, tradicionalno,
05:53
liberal political theory and Newtonian physics.
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liberalna politička teorija i Njutnova fizika.
05:57
Now, in the 20th century we had a revolution
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Sada, u 20. veku imali smo revoluciju
06:01
that was initiated at the beginning of the 20th century,
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koja je započeta početkom 20. veka,
06:04
and which is still going on.
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i koja i dalje traje.
06:07
It was begun with the invention
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Počela je otkrićem
06:08
of relativity theory and quantum theory.
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teorije relativiteta i kvantne teorije.
06:11
And merging them together to make the final quantum theory
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A njihovo spajanje u konačnu kvantnu teoriju
06:14
of space and time and gravity, is the culmination of that,
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prostora i vremena i gravitacije, jeste vrhunac toga,
06:19
something that’s going on right now.
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što se upravo sada događa.
06:21
And in this universe there’s nothing fixed and absolute. Zilch, OK.
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A u ovom univerzumu ništa nije fiksno i apsolutno. Ništica, OK.
06:26
This universe is described by being a network of relationships.
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Univerzum je opisan kao mreža relacija.
06:31
Space is just one aspect, so there’s no meaning to say
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Prostor je samo jedan aspekt pa zato nema smisla reći
06:34
absolutely where something is.
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apsolutno gde se nešto nalazi.
06:36
There’s only where it is relative to everything else that is.
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Postoji samo gde je nešto u odnosu na sve ostalo što postoji.
06:39
And this network of relations is ever-evolving.
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A ova mreža odnosa se stalno razvija.
06:43
So we call it a relational universe.
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Pa zato ovo nazivamo univerzumom relacija.
06:45
All properties of things are about these kinds of relationships.
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Sve osobine stvari su vezane za ovu vrstu odnosa.
06:49
And also, if you’re embedded in such a network of relationships,
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Takođe, ako ste ugrađeni u takvu mrežu relacija,
06:52
your view of the world has to do with what information
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vaše viđenje sveta se zasniva na onim informacijama
06:56
comes to you through the network of relations.
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do kojih dolazite preko mreže relacija.
06:58
And there’s no place for an omniscient observer
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I ne postoji mesto za sveznajućeg posmatrača
07:01
or an outside intelligence knowing everything and making everything.
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ili inteligenciju sa strane koja sve zna i sve stvara.
07:06
So this is general relativity, this is quantum theory.
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Znači to je opšta relativnost, to je kvantna teorija.
07:09
This is also, if you talk to legal scholars,
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Ali to je takođe, ako razgovarate sa pravnim stručnjacima,
07:12
the foundations of new ideas in legal thought.
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osnova novih ideja u pravnim razmišljanjima.
07:16
They’re thinking about the same things.
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Oni razmišljaju o istim stvarima.
07:17
And not only that, they make the analogy
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I ne samo to, oni prave analogiju
07:20
to relativity theory and cosmology often.
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često sa teorijom relativnosti i kosmologijom.
07:23
So there’s an interesting discussion going on there.
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Znači tu se odvija zanimljiva rasprava.
07:26
This last view of cosmology is called the relational view.
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Ovo poslednje viđenje kosmologije se naziva relacionim stanovištem.
07:31
So the main slogan here is that there’s nothing outside the universe,
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Znači glavni slogan jeste da ne postoji ništa van univerzuma,
07:34
which means that there’s no place
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što znači da nema mesta
07:36
to put an explanation for something outside.
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za objašnjenje da postoji nešto spolja.
07:40
So in such a relational universe,
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Znači u takvom relacionom univerzumu,
07:42
if you come upon something that’s ordered and structured,
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ako naiđete na nešto što je uređeno i strukturisano,
07:46
like this device here, or that device there,
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poput ovog uređaja ovde, ili onog uređaja tamo,
07:48
or something beautiful, like all the living things,
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ili na nešto lepo, kao što su sve žive stvari,
07:50
all of you guys in the room --
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svi vi momci ovde u ovoj sobi --
07:53
"guys" in physics, by the way, is a generic term: men and women.
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''momci'' u fizici, generčki je izraz; označava i muškarce i žene.
07:58
(Laughter)
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(Smeh)
08:01
Then you want to know, you’re a person,
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Onda želite da znate, vi ste osoba,
08:04
you want to know how is it made.
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želite da znate kako to nastaje.
08:06
And in a relational universe the only possible explanation was, somehow it made itself.
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A u relacionom univerzumu jedino moguće objašnjenje jeste, da je to nekako samo sebe napravilo.
08:11
There must be mechanisms of self-organization
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Mora da postoje mehanizami samoorganizacije
08:14
inside the universe that make things.
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unutar univerzuma koji prave stvari.
08:16
Because there’s no place to put a maker outside,
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Jer nema mesta da se postavi stvaratelj vani,
08:19
as there was in the Aristotelian and the Newtonian universe.
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kao u Aristotelovom i Njutnovom univerzumu.
08:23
So in a relational universe we must have processes of self-organization.
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Znači u relacionom univerzumu moramo imati procese samoorganizacije.
08:27
Now, Darwin taught us that there are processes of self-organization
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Sada, Darvin nas je naučio da postoje procesi samoorganizacije,
08:33
that suffice to explain all of us and everything we see.
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koji su dovoljni da objasne sve nas i sve što vidimo.
08:37
So it works. But not only that,
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Znači to radi. Ali ne samo to,
08:39
if you think about how natural selection works,
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ako razmislite o tome kako deluje prirodna selekcija,
08:43
then it turns out that natural selection
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onda ispada da bi prirodna selekcija
08:45
would only make sense in such a relational universe.
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imala smisla samo u takvom relacionom univerzumu.
08:49
That is, natural selection works on properties,
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Tj. prirodna selekcija deluje na osnovu osobina,
08:53
like fitness, which are about relationships
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poput spremnosti, koje se tiču relacija
08:56
of some species to some other species.
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nekih vrsta prema nekim drugim vrstama.
08:59
Darwin wouldn’t make sense in an Aristotelian universe,
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Darvin ne bi imao smisla u Aristotelovskom univerzumu,
09:03
and wouldn’t really make sense in a Newtonian universe.
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i ne bi imao smisla u Njutnovskom univerzumu.
09:07
So a theory of biology based on natural selection
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Znači teorija biologije na osnovu prirodne selekcije
09:12
requires a relational notion of
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zahteva relacionu ideju
09:15
what are the properties of biological systems.
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osobina koje čine biološke sisteme.
09:18
And if you push that all the way down, really,
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I ako idete tako do kraja, zapravo,
09:21
it makes the best sense in a relational universe
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to ima najviše smisla u relacionom univerzumu
09:24
where all properties are relational.
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u kome su sve osobine relacione.
09:27
Now, not only that, but Einstein taught us
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I ne samo to, već nas je Ajnštajn naučio
09:30
that gravity is the result of the world being relational.
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da je gravitacija posledica toga što je svet relacioni.
09:36
If it wasn’t for gravity, there wouldn’t be life,
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Da ne postoji gravitacija, ne bi bilo života,
09:39
because gravity causes stars to form and live for a very long time,
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jer gravitacija tera zvezde da se formiraju i da žive jako dugo,
09:45
keeping pieces of the world, like the surface of the Earth,
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držeći delove sveta, kao što je površina Zemlje,
09:48
out of thermal equilibrium for billions of years so life can evolve.
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van toplotne ravnoteže milijardama godina tako da život može da se razvije.
09:52
In the 20th century,
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U 20. veku,
09:54
we saw the independent development of two big themes in science.
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videli smo nezavisan razvoj dve velike teorije u nauci.
09:59
In the biological sciences, they explored
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U biološkim naukama, one su ispitivale
10:03
the implications of the notion that order and complexity
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implikacije ideje da uređenost i složenost
10:06
and structure arise in a self-organized way.
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i struktura nastaju na samoorganizovani način.
10:10
That was the triumph of Neo-Darwinism and so forth.
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To je bio triumf Neodarvinista i tako dalje.
10:14
And slowly, that idea is leaking out to the cognitive sciences,
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I polako, ta ideja prodire u kognitivne nauke,
10:19
the human sciences, economics, et cetera.
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društvene nauke, ekonomiju, itd.
10:23
At the same time, we physicists
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U isto vreme, mi fizičari
10:25
have been busy trying to make sense of
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pokušavamo da shvatimo
10:28
and build on and integrate the discoveries
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i nadgrađujemo i integrišemo otkrića
10:31
of quantum theory and relativity.
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kvantne teorije i relativiteta.
10:33
And what we’ve been working out is the implications, really,
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I ono što smo razradili jesu implikacije, zapravo,
10:37
of the idea that the universe is made up of relations.
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ideje da je univerzum sastavljen od relacija.
10:40
21st-century science is going to be driven
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Nauka u 21. veku biće vođena
10:43
by the integration of these two ideas:
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integracijom ove dve ideje:
10:46
the triumph of relational ways of thinking
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pobedom relacijskog načina razmišljanja
10:49
about the world, on the one hand,
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o svetu, s jedne strane,
10:51
and self-organization or Darwinian ways of thinking about the world,
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i samoorganizacijom ili Darvinovim načinom razmišljanja o svetu,
10:54
on the other hand.
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o svetu, s druge strane.
10:57
And also, is that in the 21st century
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Takođe, u 21. veku
10:59
our thinking about space and time and cosmology,
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i naše razmišljanje o prostoru i vremenu i kosmologiji,
11:04
and our thinking about society are both going to continue to evolve.
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i naše razmišljanje o društvu će takođe nastaviti da se razvija.
11:09
And what they’re evolving towards is the union
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A ono ka čemu se razvijaju jeste sjedinjavanje
11:11
of these two big ideas, Darwinism and relationalism.
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ove dve velike ideje, Darvinizma i relacionizma.
11:15
Now, if you think about democracy from this perspective,
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Sada, ako razmišljate o demokratiji iz ove perspektive,
11:21
a new pluralistic notion of democracy would be one that recognizes
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nova pluralistička ideja demokratije bi bila ona koja prepoznaje
11:26
that there are many different interests, many different agendas,
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da postoje mnogi različiti interesi, mnogi različiti prioriteti,
11:29
many different individuals, many different points of view.
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mnogi različiti pojedinci, mnoge različite tačke gledanja.
11:33
Each one is incomplete, because you’re embedded
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Svaka je nepotpuna, jer ste ugrađeni
11:37
in a network of relationships.
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u mrežu ili relacije.
11:39
Any actor in a democracy is embedded
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Svaki učesnik u demokratiji je ugrađen
11:41
in a network of relationships.
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u mrežu odnosa.
11:42
And you understand some things better than other things,
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I razumete neke od ovih stvari bolje od drugih stvari,
11:45
and because of that there’s a continual jostling
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i zbog toga postoji stalno gurkanje
11:49
and give and take, which is politics.
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i kompromisi, što čini politiku.
11:54
And politics is, in the ideal sense,
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A politika je, u idealnom smislu,
11:56
the way in which we continually address
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način na koji se stalno bavimo
12:00
our network of relations in order to achieve
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našom mrežom relacija kako bi stvorili
12:03
a better life and a better society.
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bolji život i bolje društvo.
12:06
And I also think that science will never go away and --
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I takođe mislim da nauka nikada neće nestati i --
12:12
I’m finishing on this line.
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I time završavam.
12:14
(Laughter)
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(Smeh)
12:18
In fact, I’m finished. Science will never go away.
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Zapravo, završio sam. Nauka nikada neće nestati.
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Lee Smolin - PhysicistLee Smolin is a theoretical physicist, working mainly in the field of quantum gravity. He's a founding member of the Perimeter Institute for Theoretical Physics in Canada, and the author of The Trouble With Physics.
Why you should listen
Lee Smolin's bachelor's degree was in physics and philosophy -- twin passions that have complemented one another throughout his blazing career as a theoretical physicist. As his website bio is careful to state, "His main contributions to research so far are to the field of quantum gravity." He's made contributions in many other fields, including cosmology, quantum mechanics, elementary particle physics and theoretical biology, and is the author of (among other books) The Trouble With Physics, a work that questions the very basis of the prevailing string theory.
Taking a step back from work on specific problems in physics, Smolin's work examines the scientific process itself and its place in the world. In all of his three books, Life of the Cosmos, Three Roads to Quantum Gravity and The Trouble with Physics, he wrestles with the philosophical implications of what contemporary physics has shown us to be true. As we come to understand more about how the world works, he asks, how will our worldview change?
Smolin is a founding member of and a researcher at the Perimeter Institute for Theoretical Physics, in Ontario, Canada (whose Executive Director is 2008 TED Prize winner Neil Turok).
Lee Smolin | Speaker | TED.com