TED2003
Lee Smolin: Science and democracy
李·斯莫林:科學和民主的相似之處
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物理學家李·斯莫林談論科學界是如何運作。如他所講：「我們會盡全力據理力爭」，但是每個人都接受是下一代的科學家會決定誰是正確的。同時，他說這也是民主主義如何運作。
Lee Smolin - Physicist
Lee Smolin is a theoretical physicist, working mainly in the field of quantum gravity. He's a founding member of the Perimeter Institute for Theoretical Physics in Canada, and the author of The Trouble With Physics. Full bio
Lee Smolin is a theoretical physicist, working mainly in the field of quantum gravity. He's a founding member of the Perimeter Institute for Theoretical Physics in Canada, and the author of The Trouble With Physics. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:12
So, about three years ago I was in London,
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大約三年前我在倫敦的時候,
00:16
and somebody called Howard Burton came to me and said,
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一位叫霍華德•伯頓的人來訪，並對我說
00:21
I represent a group of people,
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我代表一個群體,
00:23
and we want to start an institute in theoretical physics.
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我們這個群體想成立一個理論物研究所。
00:27
We have about 120 million dollars, and we want to do it well.
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我們擁有一億兩千萬美金的資金,我們想把這個研究所做好。
00:32
We want to be in the forefront fields,
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我們想在該領域中出類拔萃,
00:34
and we want to do it differently.
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而且我們想要有所創新。
00:36
We want to get out of this thing
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我們想脫離這種現狀,
00:38
where the young people have all the ideas, and the old people have all the power
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就是現在年輕學子擁有想法點子,而權力卻掌握在老一輩人的人手中
00:41
and decide what science gets done.
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並且由他們決定科學的走向。
00:44
It took me about 25 seconds to decide that that was a good idea.
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在思量了二十五秒之後,我認為這是個絕妙的想法。
00:47
Three years later, we have the Perimeter Institute for Theoretical Physics
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三年之後,我們在安大略省滑鐵盧市成立了〈周長理論物理研究所〉。
00:52
in Waterloo, Ontario. It’s the most exciting job I’ve ever had.
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這是我有生以來擁有過最讓人興奮的工作。
00:57
And it’s the first time I’ve had a job where I’m afraid to go away
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而這也是我第一次擁有一份會讓我不敢離開半步的工作,
01:01
because of everything that’s going to happen in this week when I’m here.
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這都是因為這週在研究所裡發生一切之際，我卻在這裡和你們一起。
01:05
(Laughter)
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(笑聲)
01:07
But in any case, what I’m going to do in my little bit of time
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但不管怎樣,我所將要做的是在我有限的時間內,
01:11
is take you on a quick tour of some of the things
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讓你們快速的了解
01:14
that we talk about and we think about.
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我們所談論及思考的事情。
01:17
So, we think a lot about what really makes science work?
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我們常常思考到底是什麽使科學產生影響?
01:20
The first thing that anybody who knows science,
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第一件事就是任何一位了解科學
01:23
and has been around science,
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和與科學為伍的人
01:24
is that the stuff you learn in school as a scientific method
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都在學校所習得的科學方法是錯誤的。
01:26
is wrong. There is no method.
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因為根本沒有任何方法。
01:29
On the other hand, somehow we manage to reason together
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另一方面,我們不知何故地根據不完整的線索
01:33
as a community, from incomplete evidence
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共同討論，又以某種方法得出原因
01:36
to conclusions that we all agree about.
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來總結出我們大家都同意的結論。
01:39
And this is, by the way, something that a democratic society also has to do.
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順帶一提,這也是在民主社會必須達成的一個步驟。
01:43
So how does it work?
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那麼,這項做法如何運作?
01:45
Well, my belief is that it works
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嗯,我認為它能得以運作
01:48
because scientists are a community bound together by an ethics.
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是因為科學家們是被某種共同理念緊密連結在一起的團體。
01:52
And here are some of the ethical principles.
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這裡列舉了一些行道德理念。
01:54
I’m not going to read them all to you because I’m not in teacher mode.
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我不會將它們逐字逐句的念給你們聽,
01:57
I’m in entertain, amaze mode.
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因為我現在不是來教書,而是來娛樂的。
02:00
(Laughter)
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(笑聲)
02:03
But one of the principles is that everybody
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但其中一項理念是團體中的每一位科學家
02:07
who is part of the community gets to fight and argue
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要為他們所相信的事物
02:10
as hard as they can for what they believe.
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竭盡所能的去據理力爭。
02:13
But we’re all disciplined by the understanding
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但是我們都達成一種共識
02:16
that the only people who are going to decide, you know,
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那就是在未來能夠決定
02:18
whether I’m right or somebody else is right,
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我們或他人對錯與否的人,
02:21
are the people in our community in the next generation,
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是我們這個團體中的下一代,
02:24
in 30 and 50 years.
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三十至五十年之後的科學家。
02:26
So it’s this combination of respect
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這是我們對科學界的傳統和這個團體的
02:29
for the tradition and community we’re in,
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敬意的結合,
02:31
and rebellion that the community requires to get anywhere,
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也是使科學繼續運作的，讓科學界前進的
02:34
that makes science work.
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叛逆精神。
02:37
And being in this process of being in a community
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身為科學界的一份子,參與以及供享的證明來推論到定下結論的
02:42
that reasons from shared evidence to conclusions,
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這個過程中
02:46
I believe, teaches us about democracy.
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我相信,我們可以從中學到民主。
02:50
Not only is there a relationship between the ethics of science
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不單單是因為科學的理念和身為民主社會中的公民
02:53
and the ethics of being a citizen in democracy,
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理念相關聯,
02:56
but there has been, historically, a relationship
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而是自古以來
02:59
between how people think about space and time, and what the cosmos is,
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人們對於空間,時間,宇宙的想法
03:05
and how people think about the society that they live in.
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和人們如何在社會中相處是有所關聯。
03:09
And I want to talk about three stages in that evolution.
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接著, 我要討論在這個演變中的三個階段。
03:14
The first science of cosmology that was anything like science
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第一階段的宇宙科學
03:18
was Aristotelian science, and that was hierarchical.
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是亞里斯多德科學, 而那是有等級觀念的。
03:22
The earth is in the center, then there are these crystal spheres,
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地球是宇宙的中心, 接著便是其它的水晶球體,
03:26
the sun, the moon, the planets and finally the celestial sphere,
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太陽,月亮,行星群,最後是恆星所在的天體,
03:30
where the stars are. And everything in this universe has a place.
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在宇宙的中所有的事物都有其位置。
03:34
And Aristotle’s law of motion was that everything
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根據亞里斯多德的動力定律,
03:37
goes to its natural place, which was of course,
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每一樣事物都有其歸屬,當然這也是在當時,亞里斯多德
03:39
the rule of the society that Aristotle lived in,
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所處的社會中的法則,
03:43
and more importantly, the medieval society that, through Christianity,
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更重要的是,以基督教為主要信仰的中古世紀社會
03:46
embraced Aristotle and blessed it.
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推崇亞里斯多德,支持這樣的社會法則。
03:50
And the idea is that everything is defined.
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而這個想法是相對於最後一層天體。
03:53
Where something is, is defined with respect to this last sphere,
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所有的事物都可以被定義,一切的事物都是可以被確定的,
03:58
the celestial sphere, outside of which is this eternal,
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在天體之外
04:00
perfect realm, where lives God,
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是上帝所居住的完美天國,
04:03
who is the ultimate judge of everything.
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祂對一切的事物做最終的審判。
04:06
So that is both Aristotelian cosmology,
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這就是亞里斯多德宇宙論,
04:08
and in a certain sense, medieval society.
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就某種程度上來說也是中古社會。
04:11
Now, in the 17th century there was a revolution in thinking about
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到了十七世紀,牛頓提出有關於空間,時間,及動力
04:16
space and time and motion and so forth of Newton.
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的思想革命,
04:20
And at the same time there was a revolution in social thought
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在同一時期,約翰•洛克和他的合作夥伴
04:24
of John Locke and his collaborators.
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也正在引發社會思想中的變革。
04:27
And they were very closely associated.
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這兩個變革是有緊密的關聯。
04:28
In fact, Newton and Locke were friends.
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事實上,牛頓和洛克是朋友
04:31
Their way of thinking about space and time and motion on the one hand,
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一方面,他們對空間,時間,動力進行思考,
04:36
and a society on the other hand, were closely related.
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另一方面,他們對社會進行考量。
04:40
And let me show you.
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讓我向你說明。
04:41
In a Newtonian universe, there’s no center -- thank you.
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在牛頓的宇宙中沒有中心---謝謝。
04:46
There are particles and they move around
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相動於固定且絕對的空間和時間框架中,
04:49
with respect to a fixed, absolute framework of space and time.
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有一群粒子在其中運轉。
04:54
It’s meaningful to say absolutely where something is in space,
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在這個空間中,物體有其絕對位置的說法是有意義的,
04:58
because that’s defined, not with respect to say, where other things are,
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因為這並不是說,它定義其他事物的存在,
05:02
but with respect to this absolute notion of space,
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而是定義了宇宙空間絕對存在的這個看法,
05:04
which for Newton was God.
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這對牛頓來說就是相對於上帝。
05:06
Now, similarly, in Locke’s society there are individuals
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同樣的,在洛克的社會中,
05:11
who have certain rights, properties in a formal sense,
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每一個個體在某種形式上都有特定的權益,財產,
05:14
and those are defined with respect to some absolute,
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而另一群人擁有
05:18
abstract notions of rights and justice, and so forth,
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絕對的權益,正義等等抽象想法,
05:22
which are independent of what else has happened in the society.
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這些獨立存在,
05:27
Of who else there is, of the history and so forth.
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不受社會所發生的一切,人類,及歷史所規範。
05:30
There is also an omniscient observer
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亦有一位全知全能的觀察者,
05:33
who knows everything, who is God,
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祂知道所有的事情,祂就是上帝,
05:35
who is in a certain sense outside the universe,
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在某種意義上來說,祂不處於這個宇宙當中,
05:38
because he has no role in anything that happens,
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因為在這個世界上所有事物中,祂沒有扮演任何一個角色,
05:40
but is in a certain sense everywhere,
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但在某種意義上來說,祂又無所不在,
05:42
because space is just the way that God knows
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因為通過空間,上帝知曉一切,
05:45
where everything is, according to Newton, OK?
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這是根據牛頓的理論所得出,明嗎？
05:49
So this is the foundations of what’s called, traditionally,
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這就是傳統民主政治理論
05:53
liberal political theory and Newtonian physics.
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和牛頓物理學的基礎。
05:57
Now, in the 20th century we had a revolution
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到了二十世紀,我們曾有一場革命,
06:01
that was initiated at the beginning of the 20th century,
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它是在二十世紀初開始
06:04
and which is still going on.
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持續到現在。
06:07
It was begun with the invention
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相對論和量子物理
06:08
of relativity theory and quantum theory.
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的誕生,引發了這場革命。
06:11
And merging them together to make the final quantum theory
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接著兩者結合,創造出時空量子理論,
06:14
of space and time and gravity, is the culmination of that,
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萬有引力是這一理論的頂峰,
06:19
something that’s going on right now.
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直到今天也是如此。
06:21
And in this universe there’s nothing fixed and absolute. Zilch, OK.
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在宇宙當中沒有事物是絕對和固定的,完全沒有。
06:26
This universe is described by being a network of relationships.
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宇宙被描述為一張聯繫網。
06:31
Space is just one aspect, so there’s no meaning to say
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太空太是其中一方面,
06:34
absolutely where something is.
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因此說某種事物的絕對位置是沒有意義的。
06:36
There’s only where it is relative to everything else that is.
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事物的存在只有相對位置,
06:39
And this network of relations is ever-evolving.
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而這張聯繫網仍在不斷進化中。
06:43
So we call it a relational universe.
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因此我們稱它為關聯宇宙。
06:45
All properties of things are about these kinds of relationships.
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事物所有的本質都在這關聯之中。
06:49
And also, if you’re embedded in such a network of relationships,
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假如你也身在這連繫網當中,
06:52
your view of the world has to do with what information
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而你從中所取得資訊,
06:56
comes to you through the network of relations.
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亦左右你對這個世界的看法。
06:58
And there’s no place for an omniscient observer
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而通曉一切的造物主或是無所不知的旁觀者
07:01
or an outside intelligence knowing everything and making everything.
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並不存在其中。
07:06
So this is general relativity, this is quantum theory.
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所以這是廣義相對論, 這是量子理論。
07:09
This is also, if you talk to legal scholars,
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如果你去問法律專家,
07:12
the foundations of new ideas in legal thought.
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這也會是新法律學理論的基礎。
07:16
They’re thinking about the same things.
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他們所思量的是同樣的事。
07:17
And not only that, they make the analogy
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不僅如此 他們常常會用
07:20
to relativity theory and cosmology often.
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相對論和宇宙論作譬如。
07:23
So there’s an interesting discussion going on there.
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因此一個有趣的討論就此誕生。
07:26
This last view of cosmology is called the relational view.
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我們剛剛提到的宇宙學的觀點便是關聯的觀點。
07:31
So the main slogan here is that there’s nothing outside the universe,
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主要的口號就是處在這個宇宙之外沒有任何事物存在,
07:34
which means that there’s no place
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這意味著處在宇宙之外的一切
07:36
to put an explanation for something outside.
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是沒有解釋的。
07:40
So in such a relational universe,
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因此在這個關聯的宇宙中,
07:42
if you come upon something that’s ordered and structured,
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如果你遇見某件有秩序,組織的事物,
07:46
like this device here, or that device there,
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像是這個儀器,或是那個儀器,
07:48
or something beautiful, like all the living things,
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或是某種美麗的事物,例如所有生物,
07:50
all of you guys in the room --
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在座所有的傢伙們--
07:53
"guys" in physics, by the way, is a generic term: men and women.
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順帶一提 「傢伙們」 在物理學當中是男人和女人通稱。
07:58
(Laughter)
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(笑聲)
08:01
Then you want to know, you’re a person,
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接著,你想知道,身為一個人類,
08:04
you want to know how is it made.
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你想知道它是怎麼形成的。
08:06
And in a relational universe the only possible explanation was, somehow it made itself.
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在關聯宇宙中,唯一可能的解釋是,經過某種形式,它們創造了自己。
08:11
There must be mechanisms of self-organization
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在這宇宙一定有一種自我組織機制
08:14
inside the universe that make things.
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來創造萬物。
08:16
Because there’s no place to put a maker outside,
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因為造物主不存在於宇宙之外,
08:19
as there was in the Aristotelian and the Newtonian universe.
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這點不同於亞里斯多德和牛頓的宇宙。
08:23
So in a relational universe we must have processes of self-organization.
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因此在關聯宇宙當中,一定有自我組織過程的存在。
08:27
Now, Darwin taught us that there are processes of self-organization
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達爾文教導自我組織的過程是存在的,
08:33
that suffice to explain all of us and everything we see.
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那過程之豐富足以解釋我們本身和所有我們所看見的事物。
08:37
So it works. But not only that,
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因此它行得通,但是不僅如此,
08:39
if you think about how natural selection works,
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當你在思考天擇如何運作,
08:43
then it turns out that natural selection
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你會發現自然選擇只在關聯宇宙當中
08:45
would only make sense in such a relational universe.
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會有其意義。
08:49
That is, natural selection works on properties,
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自然選擇作用於事物的固有屬性,
08:53
like fitness, which are about relationships
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例如:適性,
08:56
of some species to some other species.
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是物種和物種之間的關係。
08:59
Darwin wouldn’t make sense in an Aristotelian universe,
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在亞里斯多德的宇宙中,達爾文的理論沒有意義,
09:03
and wouldn’t really make sense in a Newtonian universe.
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在牛頓的宇宙當中也沒有意義。
09:07
So a theory of biology based on natural selection
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因此以自然選擇為基礎的生物學理論
09:12
requires a relational notion of
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要知道生物系統的
09:15
what are the properties of biological systems.
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固有屬性。
09:18
And if you push that all the way down, really,
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如果繼續進行下去,
09:21
it makes the best sense in a relational universe
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自然選擇在關聯宇宙當能體現其中的意義,
09:24
where all properties are relational.
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在這樣的宇宙中,事物的屬性都是相關聯的。
09:27
Now, not only that, but Einstein taught us
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不僅如此,愛因斯坦告訴我們
09:30
that gravity is the result of the world being relational.
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地心引力是讓這個世界相互有關聯的原因。
09:36
If it wasn’t for gravity, there wouldn’t be life,
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沒有地心引力,就沒有生命,
09:39
because gravity causes stars to form and live for a very long time,
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因為地心引力讓星星得已形成並存活了非常長的一段時間,
09:45
keeping pieces of the world, like the surface of the Earth,
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保留世界上的片段,例如像地球的表面,
09:48
out of thermal equilibrium for billions of years so life can evolve.
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歷經數十億年的熱平衡,生命因此得以演化。
09:52
In the 20th century,
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在二十一世紀,
09:54
we saw the independent development of two big themes in science.
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我們目睹了科學界當中兩大主題各自獨立的發展。
09:59
In the biological sciences, they explored
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在生物科學當中,他們探索
10:03
the implications of the notion that order and complexity
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在自我組織過程中,所呈現的次序性,複雜性,
10:06
and structure arise in a self-organized way.
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和結構性所蘊含的意義。
10:10
That was the triumph of Neo-Darwinism and so forth.
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這是新達爾文主義的成就。
10:14
And slowly, that idea is leaking out to the cognitive sciences,
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漸漸地,這個想法擴散到認知科學,
10:19
the human sciences, economics, et cetera.
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人文科學,經濟學等等各種領域。
10:23
At the same time, we physicists
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在此同時,我們物理學家
10:25
have been busy trying to make sense of
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一直很努力去理解
10:28
and build on and integrate the discoveries
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整理,研究,整合
10:31
of quantum theory and relativity.
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量子論和相對論的發現。
10:33
And what we’ve been working out is the implications, really,
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根據我們的研究,發現其中所蘊含的意義,
10:37
of the idea that the universe is made up of relations.
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的確,宇宙是由許多的關聯所構成的。
10:40
21st-century science is going to be driven
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二十一世紀的科學是由
10:43
by the integration of these two ideas:
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兩大想法的整合所驅動:
10:46
the triumph of relational ways of thinking
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一方面是以關聯的想法
10:49
about the world, on the one hand,
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去思考這個世界,
10:51
and self-organization or Darwinian ways of thinking about the world,
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另一方面是自我組織
10:54
on the other hand.
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或是達爾文的方式去思考這個世界。
10:57
And also, is that in the 21st century
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在二十一世紀,
10:59
our thinking about space and time and cosmology,
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我們對空間,時間,宇宙的看法
11:04
and our thinking about society are both going to continue to evolve.
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以及我們對社會的看法都持續在發展當中。
11:09
And what they’re evolving towards is the union
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而它們發展的方向是朝
11:11
of these two big ideas, Darwinism and relationalism.
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將達爾文主義和關聯主義整合的方向前進。
11:15
Now, if you think about democracy from this perspective,
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如果從這個觀點去思考民主,
11:21
a new pluralistic notion of democracy would be one that recognizes
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民主的創新多元觀點將會是
11:26
that there are many different interests, many different agendas,
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承認許多各式各樣的利益,議題,
11:29
many different individuals, many different points of view.
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個體,觀點的想法。
11:33
Each one is incomplete, because you’re embedded
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每一個都是不完整的,因為我們置身於
11:37
in a network of relationships.
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聯繫網其中。
11:39
Any actor in a democracy is embedded
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任何一位民主的參與者
11:41
in a network of relationships.
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都包含在聯繫網當中。
11:42
And you understand some things better than other things,
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有些人對某些事物的了解比對其他事物的了解還要來得更深入,
11:45
and because of that there’s a continual jostling
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因此不間斷有競爭,
11:49
and give and take, which is politics.
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給予和索取,這就是政治。
11:54
And politics is, in the ideal sense,
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而政治就某種意義上來說
11:56
the way in which we continually address
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便是我們持續討論的聯繫網。
12:00
our network of relations in order to achieve
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為了創造更好的社會,
12:03
a better life and a better society.
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以及獲得更好的生活。
12:06
And I also think that science will never go away and --
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我也相信科學會永遠在我們身邊,並且
12:12
I’m finishing on this line.
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我以一這句話做為總結。
12:14
(Laughter)
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（笑聲）
12:18
In fact, I’m finished. Science will never go away.
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事實上,我已經結束了,科學會永遠在我們身邊。
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Lee Smolin - PhysicistLee Smolin is a theoretical physicist, working mainly in the field of quantum gravity. He's a founding member of the Perimeter Institute for Theoretical Physics in Canada, and the author of The Trouble With Physics.
Why you should listen
Lee Smolin's bachelor's degree was in physics and philosophy -- twin passions that have complemented one another throughout his blazing career as a theoretical physicist. As his website bio is careful to state, "His main contributions to research so far are to the field of quantum gravity." He's made contributions in many other fields, including cosmology, quantum mechanics, elementary particle physics and theoretical biology, and is the author of (among other books) The Trouble With Physics, a work that questions the very basis of the prevailing string theory.
Taking a step back from work on specific problems in physics, Smolin's work examines the scientific process itself and its place in the world. In all of his three books, Life of the Cosmos, Three Roads to Quantum Gravity and The Trouble with Physics, he wrestles with the philosophical implications of what contemporary physics has shown us to be true. As we come to understand more about how the world works, he asks, how will our worldview change?
Smolin is a founding member of and a researcher at the Perimeter Institute for Theoretical Physics, in Ontario, Canada (whose Executive Director is 2008 TED Prize winner Neil Turok).
Lee Smolin | Speaker | TED.com