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Sebastian Junger: Our lonely society makes it hard to come home from war
塞巴斯蒂安．荣格尔: 让退伍军人归途难行的孤独社会
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塞巴斯蒂安．荣格尔（Sebastian Junger）曾近距离目睹过战争，他深知战场会带给士兵巨大的冲击和创伤。但他认为引起回归老兵痛苦的另一个重大原因是：远离了军队中部落式的亲密关係，重返疏远而充满分歧的现代社会。“有时候我们问问自己，是否能够拯救这些老兵，”荣格尔说道，“我认为真正的问题是，我们能不能拯救我們的社會。”
Sebastian Junger - Journalist and documentarian
The author of "The Perfect Storm" and the director of the documentaries "Restrepo" and "Korengal," Sebastian Junger tells non-fiction stories with grit and emotion. Full bio
The author of "The Perfect Storm" and the director of the documentaries "Restrepo" and "Korengal," Sebastian Junger tells non-fiction stories with grit and emotion. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:13
I worked as a war reporter for 15 years
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做了十五年战地记者后，
00:17
before I realized
that I really had a problem.
that I really had a problem.
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我才意识到自己出了问题。
00:21
There was something really wrong with me.
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我整个人都不对劲，
00:23
This was about a year before 9/11,
and America wasn't at war yet.
and America wasn't at war yet.
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这事大概发生在9/11事件前一年，
当时美国还没处于战乱中。
当时美国还没处于战乱中。
00:27
We weren't talking about PTSD.
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人们尚未谈及PTSD。
00:29
We were not yet talking
about the effect of trauma and war
about the effect of trauma and war
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也未提及伤痛和战争
00:34
on the human psyche.
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给人带来的心灵创伤。
00:36
I'd been in Afghanistan
for a couple of months
for a couple of months
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我同北部联盟在阿富汗待过几个月，
00:38
with the Northern Alliance
as they were fighting the Taliban.
as they were fighting the Taliban.
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正值阿富汗与塔利班交战。
00:42
And at that point the Taliban
had an air force,
had an air force,
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当时，塔利班有一支空军部队。
00:45
they had fighter planes,
they had tanks, they had artillery,
they had tanks, they had artillery,
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他们还有战斗机，坦克和大炮。
00:48
and we really got hammered
pretty badly a couple of times.
pretty badly a couple of times.
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有好几次，我们着实遭到了重创。
00:51
We saw some very ugly things.
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也目睹过一些恶劣行径。
00:55
But I didn't really think it affected me.
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但我确实没想过这事会影响到我。
我没怎么去想过它。
00:57
I didn't think much about it.
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00:58
I came home to New York, where I live.
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我返回纽约，回到居所。
01:01
Then one day I went down into the subway,
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然后有天，我走进地铁，
01:04
and for the first time in my life,
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这辈子第一次，
01:06
I knew real fear.
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我感受到了真正的恐惧。
01:08
I had a massive panic attack.
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莫大的恐慌向我袭来，
01:12
I was way more scared
than I had ever been in Afghanistan.
than I had ever been in Afghanistan.
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我可比当时在阿富汗要来得惶恐得多。
01:16
Everything I was looking at seemed like
it was going to kill me,
it was going to kill me,
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眼前所见的一切似乎都想要我的命，
01:19
but I couldn't explain why.
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但我不能解释为何。
01:22
The trains were going too fast.
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列车开得飞快，
01:24
There were too many people.
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周围太多人，
01:25
The lights were too bright.
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灯光过于亮，
01:27
Everything was too loud,
everything was moving too quickly.
everything was moving too quickly.
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万物喧闹着，飞快晃动着。
我靠在一根支柱边，
就只是静待其变。
就只是静待其变。
01:30
I backed up against a support column
and just waited for it.
and just waited for it.
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01:35
When I couldn't take it any longer,
I ran out of the subway station
I ran out of the subway station
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在自己忍无可忍之时，
我冲出地铁站，
我冲出地铁站，
像只没头苍蝇一通瞎走。
01:38
and walked wherever I was going.
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之后我才知晓，当时自己患上的是
短期PTSD——
短期PTSD——
01:41
Later, I found out that what I had
was short-term PTSD:
was short-term PTSD:
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01:45
post-traumatic stress disorder.
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也就是“战后孤独感症候群”。
01:48
We evolved as animals, as primates,
to survive periods of danger,
to survive periods of danger,
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我们从动物、人猿演化而来，
在危险情境中生存了下来，
在危险情境中生存了下来，
01:52
and if your life has been in danger,
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如果你的生命处于危险的情境当中，
01:55
you want to react to unfamiliar noises.
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你会想对不熟悉的噪音作出反应。
01:59
You want to sleep lightly, wake up easily.
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你会浅眠，而且很容易惊醒。
02:01
You want to have nightmares and flashbacks
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你就会做噩梦并回忆起
02:03
of the thing that could kill you.
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那些差点把你杀掉的事情。
02:06
You want to be angry because it makes you
predisposed to fight,
predisposed to fight,
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你会变得很生气，因为它会让你
进入准备战斗的状态，
进入准备战斗的状态，
或者变得绝望，因为它会
让你有点喘不过气来，
让你有点喘不过气来，
02:09
or depressed, because it keeps you out
of circulation a little bit.
of circulation a little bit.
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你会想随时保持自己的安全。
02:13
Keeps you safe.
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02:15
It's not very pleasant,
but it's better than getting eaten.
but it's better than getting eaten.
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这并不令人愉快，
但比被恐惧吞噬来得好。
但比被恐惧吞噬来得好。
02:20
Most people recover
from that pretty quickly.
from that pretty quickly.
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大多数人能很快走出这个阴影。
02:22
It takes a few weeks, a few months.
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大概需要几个星期，或是几个月。
02:25
I kept having panic attacks,
but they eventually went away.
but they eventually went away.
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我一直经历着这种痛苦的打击，
但我最后还是康復了。
但我最后还是康復了。
我不知道这和自己目睹过
的战乱有所相连。
的战乱有所相连。
02:28
I had no idea it was connected
to the war that I'd seen.
to the war that I'd seen.
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我只觉得自己要疯了，
02:30
I just thought I was going crazy,
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之后我想，好吧，
现在我再也不会发疯了。
现在我再也不会发疯了。
02:32
and then I thought, well,
now I'm not going crazy anymore.
now I'm not going crazy anymore.
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02:37
About 20 percent of people, however,
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然而，大约有20%的人，
02:39
wind up with chronic, long-term PTSD.
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最后演变成慢性、长期的PTSD
02:43
They are not adapted to temporary danger.
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他们不是要去面对短期的危险，
02:45
They are maladapted for everyday life,
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而是不能适应日常的生活，
02:48
unless they get help.
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除非有人能帮他们一把。
02:49
We know that the people
who are vulnerable to long-term PTSD
who are vulnerable to long-term PTSD
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我们都知道那些容易
转变为长期PTSD的人，
转变为长期PTSD的人，
02:53
are people who were abused as children,
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这些人也许是童年时
蒙受过非人虐待、
蒙受过非人虐待、
02:56
who suffered trauma as children,
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也许是年幼时遭到精神创伤、
02:58
people who have low education levels,
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也许是没有受过高等教育的人，
03:00
people who have psychiatric
disorders in their family.
disorders in their family.
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也许是有精神病的家庭遗传，
如果你曾在越南服役，
03:03
If you served in Vietnam
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03:04
and your brother is schizophrenic,
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而你的兄弟是精神分裂病患者，
03:07
you're way more likely to get
long-term PTSD from Vietnam.
long-term PTSD from Vietnam.
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你很有可能因越南的经历
而患上PTSD。
而患上PTSD。
03:12
So I started to study this
as a journalist,
as a journalist,
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因此我开始以记者的身份，
来对这个问题进行调查研究，
来对这个问题进行调查研究，
03:15
and I realized that there was something
really strange going on.
really strange going on.
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并且意识到，确实这其中有所异常。
03:19
The numbers seemed to be going
in the wrong direction.
in the wrong direction.
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“人数”似乎朝着错误的方向不断发展。
03:22
Every war that we have
fought as a country,
fought as a country,
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每一次我们国家参与的战争，
03:24
starting with the Civil War,
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——从独立战争开始，
03:26
the intensity of the combat has gone down.
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战争的强度开始下降。
03:30
As a result, the casualty rates
have gone down.
have gone down.
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所以，伤亡率也开始下降。
03:34
But disability rates have gone up.
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但伤残率却开始上升，
03:36
They should be going
in the same direction,
in the same direction,
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它们本该是朝同一方向进发，
03:39
but they're going in different directions.
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却走上了截然不同的道路。
03:44
The recent wars in Iraq and Afghanistan
have produced, thank God,
have produced, thank God,
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感谢上帝，最近在伊拉克和
阿富汗的战争仅造成
阿富汗的战争仅造成
03:48
a casualty rate about one third
of what it was in Vietnam.
of what it was in Vietnam.
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越南战争伤亡率的三分之一。
03:56
But they've also created --
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但是，它们也导致了——
03:58
they've also produced
three times the disability rates.
three times the disability rates.
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多达三倍的伤残率。
04:03
Around 10 percent of the US military
is actively engaged in combat,
is actively engaged in combat,
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将近有 10% 的美国军人经历过战场，
04:10
10 percent or under.
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或者说是10%以下。
04:11
They're shooting at people,
killing people,
killing people,
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他们在战场上开枪，杀人，
04:14
getting shot at,
seeing their friends get killed.
seeing their friends get killed.
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中弹、或者看着他们的战友倒下。
这简直是莫大的精神创伤。
04:16
It's incredibly traumatic.
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04:18
But it's only about 10 percent
of our military.
of our military.
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这仅仅是10%的军人。
04:20
But about half of our military has filed
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然而从政府的档案中，
我们看到有一半的军人
我们看到有一半的军人
04:23
for some kind of PTSD compensation
from the government.
from the government.
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正在领取 PTSD 的救济金。
04:28
And suicide doesn't even fit into this
in a very logical way.
in a very logical way.
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从逻辑看来，自杀人数
根本不符合这个数据。
根本不符合这个数据。
04:34
We've all heard the tragic statistic
of 22 vets a day, on average,
of 22 vets a day, on average,
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我们都听说过一个不幸的统计数据，
平均每天，有22个退伍军人，
平均每天，有22个退伍军人，
04:39
in this country, killing themselves.
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就在这个国家，选择自杀。
04:43
Most people don't realize
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大部分人还没发觉
04:45
that the majority of those suicides
are veterans of the Vietnam War,
are veterans of the Vietnam War,
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这些自杀案例大多数
是从越南战争回国的老兵，
是从越南战争回国的老兵，
04:50
that generation,
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在那一个年代，
04:52
and their decision to take their own lives
actually might not be related
actually might not be related
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他们想要自我了断的决定，
事实上或许与那场
50年前的战争无关。
50年前的战争无关。
04:57
to the war they fought 50 years earlier.
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05:01
In fact, there's no statistical connection
between combat and suicide.
between combat and suicide.
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实际上，目前没有战争与自杀
是有关连性的统计数据。
是有关连性的统计数据。
05:04
If you're in the military
and you're in a lot of combat,
and you're in a lot of combat,
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假如你在军队中参与过很多场战役，
05:07
you're no more likely to kill yourself
than if you weren't.
than if you weren't.
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你更不会倾向于选择自杀，
05:11
In fact, one study found
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一项研究显示，
05:12
that if you deploy to Iraq or Afghanistan,
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假如你参与过伊拉克或者阿富汗战争，
其实你是更不可能
在往后选择自杀的。
在往后选择自杀的。
05:15
you're actually slightly less likely
to commit suicide later.
to commit suicide later.
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05:20
I studied anthropology in college.
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我在大学时期研究人类学，
05:22
I did my fieldwork
on the Navajo reservation.
on the Navajo reservation.
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到那瓦侯保护区做过实地调查，
05:25
I wrote a thesis on Navajo
long-distance runners.
long-distance runners.
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写过当地长跑运动员的相关论文。
05:30
And recently, while
I was researching PTSD,
I was researching PTSD,
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而最近，在我研究PTSD时，
05:35
I had this thought.
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突然有了这样的想法。
05:38
I thought back to the work
I did when I was young,
I did when I was young,
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我想起我年轻时做过的研究，
05:41
and I thought, I bet the Navajo,
the Apache, the Comanche --
the Apache, the Comanche --
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我在想，我敢说那瓦侯人，
阿帕切人，科曼奇人
阿帕切人，科曼奇人
05:45
I mean, these are very warlike nations --
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我的意思是，
——這些好戰的民族——
——這些好戰的民族——
05:48
I bet they weren't getting
PTSD like we do.
PTSD like we do.
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我打赌他们不像我们这样
会患上PTSD。
会患上PTSD。
05:52
When their warriors came back
from fighting the US military
from fighting the US military
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当他们的战士从抵抗美国
军队的战争中回到家乡
军队的战争中回到家乡
05:55
or fighting each other,
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或者从部落之间的互斗中归来时，
05:58
I bet they pretty much just slipped
right back into tribal life.
right back into tribal life.
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我敢说他们肯定很容易就
重新融入部落生活。
重新融入部落生活。
06:03
And maybe what determines
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也许，
06:05
the rate of long-term PTSD
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决定长期 PTSD 的因素，
06:08
isn't what happened out there,
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不是在战场上发生了什麽，
06:11
but the kind of society you come back to.
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而是你回到了什麽样的社会。
06:15
And maybe if you come back
to a close, cohesive, tribal society,
to a close, cohesive, tribal society,
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要是回到一个紧密联繫的、
团结的、部落化的社会，
团结的、部落化的社会，
06:20
you can get over trauma pretty quickly.
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你能很快度过创伤期。
06:23
And if you come back
to an alienating, modern society,
to an alienating, modern society,
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但假如你回到的是一个
人与人疏远的现代社会，
人与人疏远的现代社会，
06:28
you might remain traumatized
your entire life.
your entire life.
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或许会以郁郁终生结尾。
06:32
In other words, maybe the problem
isn't them, the vets;
isn't them, the vets;
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换句话来说，也许问题不出在他们、
那些退伍军人身上；
那些退伍军人身上；
06:35
maybe the problem is us.
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而有可能是我们社会自身的问题。
06:39
Certainly, modern society
is hard on the human psyche
is hard on the human psyche
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的确，现代社会对人类的精神
带来了重大的压力，
带来了重大的压力，
06:44
by every metric that we have.
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这些压力来自于我们社会上
各种的衡量标准。
各种的衡量标准。
06:49
As wealth goes up in a society,
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随着社会财富积累，
06:53
the suicide rate goes up instead of down.
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自杀率不减反增。
06:58
If you live in modern society,
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如果你住在现代社会中，
07:00
you're up to eight times more likely
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有多达 8 倍的几率，
07:04
to suffer from depression in your lifetime
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毕生遭受更多、
07:06
than if you live in a poor,
agrarian society.
agrarian society.
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比生活在贫困农耕社会，
还要多的忧愁烦恼。
还要多的忧愁烦恼。
07:10
Modern society has probably produced
the highest rates of suicide
the highest rates of suicide
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现代社会可能引发了有所以来超高的自杀率、
07:14
and depression and anxiety
and loneliness and child abuse
and loneliness and child abuse
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抑鬱症、焦虑症、孤僻症
和受到童年虐待的可能，
和受到童年虐待的可能，
07:17
ever in human history.
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这比例要比历史任一时代都高。
07:20
I saw one study
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我曾看过一项研究，
07:22
that compared women in Nigeria,
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它把尼日利亚的妇女，
07:25
one of the most chaotic
and violent and corrupt
and violent and corrupt
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也就是非洲最混乱、暴力、堕落、
07:28
and poorest countries in Africa,
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最贫穷的国家之一，
07:31
to women in North America.
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和北美的女性进行比较。
07:32
And the highest rates of depression
were urban women in North America.
were urban women in North America.
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北美的城市女性
是抑鬱症患病率最高的。
是抑鬱症患病率最高的。
07:37
That was also the wealthiest group.
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她们同样是最富有的一群人。
07:40
So let's go back to the US military.
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那么，我们回头来看美军的状况。
07:45
Ten percent are in combat.
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10% 的军人经历过战争。
07:47
Around 50 percent have filed
for PTSD compensation.
for PTSD compensation.
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约乎50%的人申请PTSD补偿金。
07:53
So about 40 percent of veterans
really were not traumatized overseas
really were not traumatized overseas
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所以大概 40% 的退伍老兵
并不是在海外受到精神创伤，
并不是在海外受到精神创伤，
07:59
but have come home to discover
they are dangerously alienated
they are dangerously alienated
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而是回到家后
发现他们被孤立
发现他们被孤立
08:04
and depressed.
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并感到沮丧绝望。
08:08
So what is happening with them?
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在这些人身上到底发生了什么？
08:11
What's going on with those people,
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他们遭遇了什麽？
08:14
the phantom 40 percent that are troubled
but don't understand why?
but don't understand why?
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我们让 40% 的人，
患上 PTSD，却不清楚成因？
患上 PTSD，却不清楚成因？
08:18
Maybe it's this:
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或许是这个原因：
08:20
maybe they had an experience
of sort of tribal closeness
of sort of tribal closeness
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也许当时他们在海外，
08:24
in their unit when they were overseas.
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经历过部队亲密的战友关係。
08:28
They were eating together,
sleeping together,
sleeping together,
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他们一起吃饭，一起睡觉，
08:30
doing tasks and missions together.
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一道完成任务和使命。
08:33
They were trusting each other
with their lives.
with their lives.
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以生命为担保，相信彼此。
08:37
And then they come home
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待他们回到家，
08:38
and they have to give all that up
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曾经的一切都必须舍弃。
08:41
and they're coming back
to a society, a modern society,
to a society, a modern society,
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他们回到社会，这个现代社会，
08:45
which is hard on people
who weren't even in the military.
who weren't even in the military.
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这个甚至对非军人都苛刻至极的社会。
08:49
It's just hard on everybody.
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所有人在这社会都活得艰苦。
08:51
And we keep focusing on trauma, PTSD.
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而我们却一直关注
创伤，PTSD。
创伤，PTSD。
08:56
But for a lot of these people,
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但对大部分人来说，
08:59
maybe it's not trauma.
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也许这不是精神创伤。
09:00
I mean, certainly,
soldiers are traumatized
soldiers are traumatized
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我的意思是，当然了，
士兵的确是受过精神创伤，
士兵的确是受过精神创伤，
09:03
and the ones who are
have to be treated for that.
have to be treated for that.
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也有士兵接受过治疗。
09:05
But a lot of them --
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但是这之中许多人——
09:06
maybe what's bothering them
is actually a kind of alienation.
is actually a kind of alienation.
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也许困扰他们的只是一种疏离感。
09:10
I mean, maybe we just have
the wrong word for some of it,
the wrong word for some of it,
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我的意思是，也许我们只是
错用了词语去形容他们，
错用了词语去形容他们，
09:13
and just changing our language,
our understanding,
our understanding,
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只要调整我们的语句，
改变我们的想法，
改变我们的想法，
都将会有所帮助。
09:15
would help a little bit.
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"战后孤独感症候群"。
09:16
"Post-deployment alienation disorder."
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也许只要这样称呼
他们其中的一部分人
他们其中的一部分人
09:19
Maybe even just calling it that
for some of these people
for some of these people
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09:23
would allow them to stop imagining
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2578
就能帮助他们停止联想
09:26
trying to imagine a trauma
that didn't really happen
that didn't really happen
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一个根本没有发生过的创伤。
09:29
in order to explain a feeling
that really is happening.
that really is happening.
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2771
这是为了解释一种
他们正在经历的感受。
他们正在经历的感受。
而事实上，这是一种
非常危险的感觉。
非常危险的感觉。
09:32
And in fact, it's an extremely
dangerous feeling.
dangerous feeling.
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2517
09:35
That alienation and depression
can lead to suicide.
can lead to suicide.
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疏远和抑郁有可能导致自杀。
09:37
These people are in danger.
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565807
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这些人身处险境。
09:39
It's very important to understand why.
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瞭解成因是非常重要的事情。
09:43
The Israeli military has a PTSD rate
of around one percent.
of around one percent.
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571167
4274
以色列军人，
患 PTSD 的概率是1%。
患 PTSD 的概率是1%。
09:47
The theory is that everyone in Israel
is supposed to serve in the military.
is supposed to serve in the military.
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有一种理论是说，因为以色列
的所有人都需要服兵役。
的所有人都需要服兵役。
09:53
When soldiers come back
from the front line,
from the front line,
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581273
2110
当士兵从前线回归，
09:55
they're not going from a military
environment to a civilian environment.
environment to a civilian environment.
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4438
他们不是要从军队环境回到文明社会，
10:00
They're coming back to a community
where everyone understands
where everyone understands
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3707
而是回到一个
人人都瞭解甚麽是当兵的社会。
10:05
about the military.
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1155
每个人都曾经服役、或者准备去服役。
10:06
Everyone's been in it
or is going to be in it.
or is going to be in it.
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2155
所有人知道自己处在什么样的情况，
10:09
Everyone understands
the situation they're all in.
the situation they're all in.
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就好像这些人处于一个庞大的部落中。
10:11
It's as if they're all in one big tribe.
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2269
10:14
We know that if you take a lab rat
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2034
我们都知道，如果拿做实验用的小白鼠，
10:16
and traumatize it and put it
in a cage by itself,
in a cage by itself,
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3672
折磨它，把它单独关在笼子里，
10:20
you can maintain its trauma symptoms
almost indefinitely.
almost indefinitely.
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3157
你可以永无止境地
让牠保持在精神创伤的状态。
让牠保持在精神创伤的状态。
10:23
And if you take that same lab rat
and put it in a cage with other rats,
and put it in a cage with other rats,
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5087
但假如你把同样的实验鼠
放在有其他老鼠的笼子里，
放在有其他老鼠的笼子里，
10:30
after a couple of weeks,
it's pretty much OK.
it's pretty much OK.
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几个星期后，
牠的表现就会回復正常了。
牠的表现就会回復正常了。
10:35
After 9/11,
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1262
在9/11之后，
10:38
the murder rate in New York City
went down by 40 percent.
went down by 40 percent.
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3293
纽约的谋杀率下降了40%，
10:41
The suicide rate went down.
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629866
1822
自杀率也下降了，
10:44
The violent crime rate in New York
went down after 9/11.
went down after 9/11.
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4504
纽约的暴力犯罪率，
随9/11之后也下降了。
随9/11之后也下降了。
10:49
Even combat veterans of previous wars
who suffered from PTSD
who suffered from PTSD
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5319
甚至在之前战役中，
饱受 PTSD 的老兵都说，
饱受 PTSD 的老兵都说，
10:54
said that their symptoms went down
after 9/11 happened.
after 9/11 happened.
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4497
他们的症状在9/11之后有所缓和。
10:59
The reason is that if you traumatize
an entire society,
an entire society,
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647148
3436
原因在于，如果一整个社会范围内
的群体都受到创伤，
的群体都受到创伤，
11:04
we don't fall apart
and turn on one another.
and turn on one another.
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652450
3219
我们并不会因此瓦解崩溃，
彼此针锋相对。
彼此针锋相对。
11:07
We come together. We unify.
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655693
2114
而是融为一体，心连心。
11:09
Basically, we tribalize,
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657831
2047
大致来说，我们产生了集体意识。
11:11
and that process of unifying
feels so good and is so good for us,
feels so good and is so good for us,
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659902
5553
团结一起的过程让人感觉很好，
也对我们有益，
也对我们有益，
甚至帮助了那些、
11:17
that it even helps people
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665479
1417
11:18
who are struggling
with mental health issues.
with mental health issues.
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666920
3294
还在苦苦与精神健康问题缠斗的人。
11:22
During the blitz in London,
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1765
在二战伦敦被德国轰炸的期间，
11:24
admissions to psychiatric wards
went down during the bombings.
went down during the bombings.
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672027
5013
精神病医院的患者减少了。
11:30
For a while, that was the kind of country
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678606
3222
有一段时间，美军从海外返回的国家
11:33
that American soldiers came
back to -- a unified country.
back to -- a unified country.
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681852
3871
是一个团结的国家。
11:38
We were sticking together.
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686288
1271
我们紧紧相依，
11:39
We were trying to understand
the threat against us.
the threat against us.
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2611
试图知晓到底是什么威胁着我们。
11:42
We were trying to help
ourselves and the world.
ourselves and the world.
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4079
试着自我帮助，加益于世界。
11:47
But that's changed.
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1601
但这些都变了。
11:50
Now, American soldiers,
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2346
现在，美国的在役军人、
11:52
American veterans are coming back
to a country that is so bitterly divided
to a country that is so bitterly divided
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700762
3820
美国老兵，正在回到
一个极其分裂的国家，
一个极其分裂的国家，
11:57
that the two political parties
are literally accusing each other
are literally accusing each other
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3422
两党互相指控对方叛国、
是国家的敌人、
12:02
of treason, of being
an enemy of the state,
an enemy of the state,
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2840
12:06
of trying to undermine the security
and the welfare of their own country.
and the welfare of their own country.
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714265
4760
或者暗中颠复国家的
国土安全和福利。
国土安全和福利。
12:11
The gap between rich and poor
is the biggest it's ever been.
is the biggest it's ever been.
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719049
4133
贫富差距达到前所未有之大，
现状还在恶化。
12:15
It's just getting worse.
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1185
12:16
Race relations are terrible.
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724415
2408
种族关系恶劣，
12:18
There are demonstrations
and even riots in the streets
and even riots in the streets
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726847
2856
街上有人示威游行、甚至引发暴乱，
12:21
because of racial injustice.
220
729727
1979
全因种族歧视。
12:24
And veterans know that any tribe
that treated itself that way -- in fact,
that treated itself that way -- in fact,
221
732727
4261
退伍军人知道任何
一个部落或者连队
一个部落或者连队
12:29
any platoon that treated itself
that way -- would never survive.
that way -- would never survive.
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4930
以这样的方式对待自己的战友，
都不会存活。
都不会存活。
12:35
We've gotten used to it.
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1891
我们却已经习惯了。
12:36
Veterans have gone away
and are coming back
and are coming back
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744983
3853
退伍军人离开战地，
终是回国。
终是回国。
12:40
and seeing their own country
with fresh eyes.
with fresh eyes.
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4441
用全新的眼光，看待自己的国家。
12:45
And they see what's going on.
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753325
1657
目睹发生的这些，
12:47
This is the country they fought for.
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755738
1855
这就是他们为之浴血奋斗的国家。
12:50
No wonder they're depressed.
228
758433
1678
也难怪他们会抑郁，
12:52
No wonder they're scared.
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1574
他们会害怕。
12:55
Sometimes, we ask ourselves
if we can save the vets.
if we can save the vets.
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763371
3877
有的时候，我们问自己，
是否能够拯救那些老兵。
是否能够拯救那些老兵。
13:00
I think the real question
is if we can save ourselves.
is if we can save ourselves.
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我反倒认为，真正的问题在于，
我们能不能拯救我們的社會。
我们能不能拯救我們的社會。
13:03
If we can,
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1690
如果能，
13:05
I think the vets are going to be fine.
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773619
1974
我想他们就会有所好转。
13:08
It's time for this country to unite,
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776697
3137
这个国家是时候该团结起来了，
13:13
if only to help the men and women
who fought to protect us.
who fought to protect us.
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781818
4792
只为帮助那些为保护我们
而奋勇斗争的人。
而奋勇斗争的人。
13:19
Thank you very much.
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1231
非常感谢大家的倾听。
13:20
(Applause)
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788437
6666
（掌声）
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Sebastian Junger - Journalist and documentarianThe author of "The Perfect Storm" and the director of the documentaries "Restrepo" and "Korengal," Sebastian Junger tells non-fiction stories with grit and emotion.
Why you should listen
Sebastian Junger thundered onto the media landscape with his non-fiction book, The Perfect Storm. A correspondent for Vanity Fair and ABC News, Junger has covered stories all across the globe, igniting a new interest in non-fiction. One of his main interests: war.
From 2007 to 2008, Junger and photographer Tim Hetherington embedded with the 173rd Airborne Brigade Combat Team in Afghanistan. They spent intensive time with the soldiers at the Restrepo outpost in the Korengal Valley, which saw more combat than any other part of Afghanistan. The experience became Junger's book WAR, and the documentary "Restrepo," which was nominated for the Academy Award for Best Documentary in 2011.
Junger and Hetherington planned to make a second documentary on the topic, "Korengal," meant to help soldiers and civilians alike understand the fear, courage and complexity involved in combat. It's a project that Junger decided to carry on after Hetherington was killed in Libya while covering the civil war there. Junger self-financed and released the film.
Sebastian Junger | Speaker | TED.com