TED2011
Homaro Cantu + Ben Roche: Cooking as alchemy
何馬若‧坎圖 + 班‧羅氏：食物煉金術
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何馬若‧坎圖及班‧羅氏是摩托餐廳的經營者。這家位於芝加哥的餐廳以新奇的方法烹調及享用食物出名。但是除了好玩及嘗鮮外，還有更嚴肅的目的：我們可以讓新的食品科技造福人類嗎？
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:15
Ben Roche: So I'm Ben, by the way.
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班：所以，順便一題，我是班
00:17
Homaro Cantu: And I'm Homaro.
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何馬若：而我是何馬若
00:19
BR: And we're chefs. So when Moto
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班：我們是廚師。所以摩托餐廳
00:21
opened in 2004, people didn't really know
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於2004年開幕時，大家都搞不清楚
00:23
what to expect. A lot of people thought
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到底我們在玩什麼。很多人以為
00:25
that it was a Japanese restaurant, and
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這是家日本料理餐廳，
00:27
maybe it was the name, maybe it was
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或許是因為餐廳名字，或許是因為
00:29
the logo, which was like a Japanese
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餐廳商標真的很像日本字
00:31
character, but anyway, we had all these
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反正，我們收到
00:33
requests for Japanese food, which is
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一大堆詢問要點日本菜，可是
00:35
really not what we did. And after about
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我們真的不是做日本料理的。就在
00:37
the ten thousandth request for a maki roll,
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我們收到第一萬份要點壽司卷的詢問後
00:39
we decided to give the people
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我們決定要供應
00:41
what they wanted. So this picture is
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大家想吃的東西。所以這張圖片
00:43
an example of printed food, and this was
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是「印表機食物」樣品，這也是
00:45
the first foray into what we like to call
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我們第一次進軍我們稱之為
00:47
flavor transformation. So this is all
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味覺轉化的實驗。所以
00:49
the ingredients, all the flavor of, you know,
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你知道，就是把製作壽司卷的材料
00:51
a standard maki roll, printed onto
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及壽司卷的味道，印在
00:53
a little piece of paper.
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一張小小的紙上給客人吃
00:55
HC: So our diners started to get bored
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何：我們的客人很快就對這個點子
00:57
with this idea, and we decided to give them
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失去興趣了，因此我們決定
00:59
the same course twice, so here we actually
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把同一道菜上兩次，也就是說我們
01:02
took an element from the maki roll and
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仿造「壽司卷紙」這道菜
01:04
and took a picture of a dish and then
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照了一道菜的相片，然後
01:06
basically served that picture with the dish.
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就把這道菜的相片及這道菜一起端上桌
01:09
So this dish in particular is basically
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所以現在這道菜基本上是
01:11
champagne with seafood.
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香檳配海鮮
01:13
The champagne grapes that you see are
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這裡的香檳葡萄
01:15
actually carbonated grapes. A little bit of
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其實是灌了二氧化碳（發泡）的葡萄，再放
01:17
seafood and some crème fraiche and the
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一點海鮮以及crème fraiche （法式酸奶油）
01:19
picture actually tastes exactly like the dish. (Laughter)
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而這張相片吃起來味道就像這道菜。（笑聲）
01:22
BR: But it's not all just edible pictures.
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班：不過不只是可食用的相片
01:24
We decided to do something
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我們還決定要做點
01:26
a little bit different and transform flavors
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不一樣的東西來轉變那些
01:28
that were very familiar -- so in this case,
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很熟悉的味道—所以情況就是
01:31
we have carrot cake.
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我們要挑戰紅蘿蔔蛋糕
01:33
So we take a carrot cake, put it
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所以我們拿了一個紅蘿蔔蛋糕
01:35
in a blender, and we have kind of like
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把它放進果汁機裡攪一攪，就得到
01:37
a carrot cake juice, and then that went into
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很像紅蘿蔔蛋糕果汁的東西，然後放進
01:39
a balloon frozen in liquid nitrogen to create
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氣球裡，再用液態氮冰凍
01:41
this hollow shell of carrot cake
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做成這個中空的東西，我覺得很像
01:44
ice cream, I guess, and it comes off
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紅蘿蔔蛋糕冰淇淋，而且成品呢
01:46
looking like, you know,
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看起來很像，你知道
01:48
Jupiter's floating around your plate.
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木星飄浮在盤子上
01:50
So yeah, we're transforming things into
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所以是的，我們要把食材變成
01:52
something that you have absolutely
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你完全無法聯想的
01:54
no reference for.
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另一種食物
01:56
HC: And here's something we have no
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何：這個是我們
01:58
reference to eat. This is a cigar, and
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絕對想不到可以吃的東西。這是雪茄
02:00
basically it's a Cuban cigar made out of
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而且還是一枝古巴雪茄
02:02
a Cuban pork sandwich, so we take these
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用古巴豬肉三明治做的，我們把這些
02:04
spices that go into the pork shoulder,
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醃豬肩胛肉所需的香料
02:06
we fashion that into ash. We take
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做成煙灰的樣子。我們
02:08
the sandwich and wrap it up in
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把三明治用甘藍菜葉
02:10
a collard green, put an edible label
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包起來，再用一張可以吃的紙作商標
02:12
that bears no similarity to
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看起來一點都不像
02:14
a Cohiba cigar label, and we put it
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可喜巴雪茄，我們把它放在
02:16
in a dollar ninety-nine ashtray and charge
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一個1.99美元的煙灰缸裡，然後收你
02:18
you about twenty bucks for it. (Laughter)
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大約20美元吃這道菜。（笑聲）
02:21
HC: Delicious.
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何：真好！
02:23
BR: That's not it, though.
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班：但這不是我們的目的。
02:25
Instead of making foods that
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除了做一些讓你看起來
02:27
look like things that you wouldn't eat,
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不能吃的食物給你吃之外
02:29
we decided to make ingredients
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我們還做了一些
02:31
look like dishes that you know.
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看起來很熟悉的食物
02:33
So this is a plate of nachos.
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這是一盤墨西哥玉米片
02:35
The difference between our nachos
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但是這盤玉米片跟
02:37
and the other guy's nachos,
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你所知道的玉米片的不同在於
02:39
is that this is actually a dessert.
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這盤玉米片其實是道甜點
02:41
So the chips are candied,
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所以這些脆片其實是糖片
02:43
the ground beef is made from chocolate,
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牛絞肉是巧可力做的
02:45
and the cheese is made from a shredded
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起士則是以削成條狀的
02:47
mango sorbet that gets shredded
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芒果雪酪充當，因為削完後
02:49
into liquid nitrogen to look like cheese.
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就放在液態氮裡，所以看起來真的很像起士
02:51
And after doing all of this
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就在把這些材料
02:53
dematerialization and reconfiguring
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拆散重組後
02:56
of this, of these ingredients, we realized
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我們瞭解到
02:59
that it was pretty cool,
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其實這還滿酷的
03:01
because as we served it, we learned that
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因為我們出這道菜時，發現
03:03
the dish actually behaves like the real thing,
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這道假玉米片裝的還真像
03:05
where the cheese begins to melt.
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因為「起士」開始融化了
03:07
So when you're looking at this thing
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所以當你坐在我們的餐廳
03:09
in the dining room, you have this sensation
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看這這道菜，你會以為
03:11
that this is actually a plate of nachos,
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這真的是盤墨西哥玉米片
03:13
and it's not really until you begin tasting it
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直到你吃了之後
03:15
that you realize this is a dessert, and
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才會恍然大悟原來這是甜品
03:17
it's just kind of like a mind-ripper.
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有一種精神分裂的感覺
03:20
(Laughter)
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（笑聲）
03:22
HC: So we had been creating
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何：所以我們
03:24
all of these dishes out of a
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在一個一點都不像廚房
03:26
kitchen that was more like
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卻比較像修車場的地方
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a mechanic's shop than a kitchen, and
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實驗這些菜
03:30
the next logical step for us was to install
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所以下一步理所當然是
03:32
a state-of-the-art laboratory,
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打造一個擁有最新科技的實驗室
03:34
and that's what we have here.
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這個就是我們的實驗室
03:36
So we put this in the basement, and we
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我們蓋在地下室，而且
03:38
got really serious about food, like
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我們開始很認真地看待食物
03:40
serious experimentation.
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就像真的實驗一樣
03:42
BR: One of the really cool things about
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班：有一件非常酷的事是
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the lab, besides that we have a new
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這個廚房除了有新的科學實驗室外
03:46
science lab in the kitchen, is that,
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它還有
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you know, with this new equipment, and
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你知道，這些新的儀器
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this new approach, all these
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以及新的烹調手法
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different doors to creativity that we never
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而那前所未見、通往創意的門
03:54
knew were there began to open, and so the
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就這樣打開了
03:56
experiments and the food and the dishes
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所以這些實驗，這些食物，還有這些
03:58
that we created, they just kept going
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創意菜色，就這樣不斷地
04:01
further and further out there.
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產生出來，而且愈來愈勁爆。
04:03
HC: Let's talk about flavor transformation,
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何：我們來談談味覺轉變
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and let's actually make some cool stuff.
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就來做點酷東西吧
04:07
You see a cow with its tongue hanging out.
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你一定看過牛把舌頭伸出來的樣子
04:09
What I see is a cow about to eat something
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我每次看到都認為牠是準備要吃
04:11
delicious. What is that cow eating?
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美味的食物。牛在吃什麼呢？
04:14
And why is it delicious?
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為什麼這麼好吃？
04:16
So the cow, basically, eats three basic
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所以基本上給牛餵食三樣基本的東西
04:18
things in their feed: corn, beets, and barley,
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玉米、甜菜及大麥
04:22
and so what I do is I actually
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所以我就提出
04:24
challenge my staff with these crazy,
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一些瘋狂的點子挑戰我的員工
04:26
wild ideas. Can we take what the cow
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我們能不能拿牛吃的東西
04:29
eats, remove the cow, and then make
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但不要用真正的牛肉，
04:31
some hamburgers out of that?
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來做成漢堡？
04:33
And basically the reaction tends to be
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大家聽到後的反應基本上
04:35
kind of like this. (Laughter)
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是這樣的。（笑聲）
04:37
BR: Yeah, that's our chef de cuisine,
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班：是啊，這是我們的行政主廚
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Chris Jones. This is not the only guy
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克里斯·瓊斯。他不是唯一一個
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that just flips out when we assign
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對我們交待的無理差事
04:43
a ridiculous task, but a lot of these ideas,
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發火的人，對我們的員工而言
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they're hard to understand.
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我們的想法簡直是匪夷所思
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They're hard to just get automatically.
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很難一說就懂
04:50
There's a lot of research and a lot of
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這些創意菜裡
04:53
failure, trial and error -- I guess, more error --
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充滿了研究
04:56
that goes into each and every dish,
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也充滿了失敗、摸索，我猜錯誤居多
04:58
so we don't always get it right, and it takes
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我們不是一次到位的，通常
05:00
a while for us to be able to explain that
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我們要想很久才能解釋清楚
05:02
to people.
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給他們聽
05:04
HC: So, after about a day of Chris and I
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何：所以就在我跟克里斯
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staring at each other, we came up with
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大眼瞪小眼了一整天之後，我們做出
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something that was pretty close
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一個還滿像
05:10
to the hamburger patty, and as you can
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漢堡肉的東西，你看
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see it basically forms like hamburger meat.
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它弄起來還真像漢堡肉
05:14
This is made from three ingredients:
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這東西用三樣材料做成
05:17
beets, barley, corn, and so it
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甜菜、大麥及玉米，所以
05:19
actually cooks up like hamburger meat,
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它煮起來像漢堡肉
05:21
looks and tastes like hamburger meat,
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看起來、吃起來像漢堡肉
05:23
and not only that, but it's basically
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不只這樣，這個東西
05:26
removing the cow from the equation.
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不需要用牛肉了
05:28
So replicating food, taking it into that
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所以要如何複製食物，並且進展到
05:31
next level is where we're going.
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下一個階段是我們想要做的
05:33
(Applause)
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（掌聲）
05:36
BR: And it's definitely the world's first
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班：而且這絕對是世界第一個
05:38
bleeding veggie burger,
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會「滴血」的素漢堡
05:40
which is a cool side effect.
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還滿酷的效果啊
05:43
And a miracle berry, if you're not familiar
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還有利用神秘果，如果你沒聽過
05:45
with it, is a natural ingredient, and it
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它是一種天然的食物
05:47
contains a special property.
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含有一種特別的物質
05:49
It's a glycoprotein called miraculin,
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是稱作神秘果素的糖蛋白
05:51
a naturally occurring thing. It still freaks
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是天然形成的，每次我吃神秘果
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me out every time I eat it, but it has a
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都驚異不已，它有一種特質
05:55
unique ability to mask certain taste
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能遮蔽味蕾上對某些味覺
05:57
receptors on your tongue, so that primarily
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的受體，主要是
05:59
sour taste receptors, so normally things
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酸味的受體，所以那些
06:01
that would taste very sour or tart,
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嘗起來酸澀的東西
06:03
somehow begin to taste very sweet.
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會變的非常甜
06:06
HC: You're about to eat a lemon,
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何：你明明在吃檸檬
06:08
and now it tastes like lemonade.
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但味道卻像蜂蜜檸檬汁
06:10
Let's just stop and think about the
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現在讓我們來想想
06:12
economic benefits of something like that.
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這種神秘果類的東西有什麼經濟效益
06:14
We could eliminate sugar across the board
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說不定我們做餅乾糖果及汽水的時候
06:16
for all confectionary products and sodas,
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不需要用糖了
06:18
and we can replace it with
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我們可以用
06:20
all-natural fresh fruit.
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天然的新鮮水果代替糖
06:22
BR: So you see us here cutting up
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班：你看我們在這裡切
06:24
some watermelon. The idea with this
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西瓜。這個點子的出發點是
06:26
is that we're going to eliminate tons of
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我們要藉著「製造」鮪魚來減少成千上萬的
06:28
food miles, wasted energy,
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食物里程，能源浪費
06:31
and overfishing of tuna by creating tuna,
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以及過度捕撈鮪魚
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or any exotic produce or item
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或者用在地的有機農產
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from a very far-away place,
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避免從很遠很遠的地方運送
06:40
with local, organic produce;
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稀有農產或食材；
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so we have a watermelon from Wisconsin.
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所以我們使用威斯康辛州產的西瓜
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HC: So if miracle berries take sour things
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何：所以如果神秘果
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and turn them into sweet things,
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能把酸變甜
06:49
we have this other pixie dust
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我們還有其他的魔法粉
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that we put on the watermelon, and it
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可以撒在西瓜上
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makes it go from sweet to savory.
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讓甜變成開胃的好滋味
06:56
So after we do that, we put it into
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所以我們灑了這種粉在西瓜上之後
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a vacuum bag, add a little bit of seaweed,
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就把它用真空袋裝著，加了點海苔
07:00
some spices, and we roll it, and this
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一些調味料，然後捲起來
07:03
starts taking on the appearance of tuna.
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這東西開始穿上鮪魚裝
07:05
So the key now is to make it
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所以現在的重點是怎麼樣讓它
07:07
behave like tuna.
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表現的也像鮪魚
07:09
BR: And then after a quick dip into some
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班：然後很快的把它浸到
07:11
liquid nitrogen to get that perfect sear,
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液態氮裡，完美的封住「肉汁」
07:14
we really have something that looks,
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我們就得到了一個看起來
07:16
tastes and behaves like the real thing.
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吃起來、表現起來都很像真的鮪魚的東西
07:19
HC: So the key thing to remember here is,
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何：所以要記住的重點是
07:22
we don't really care
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我們其實一點都不在乎
07:25
what this tuna really is.
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這個「鮪魚」到底是甚麼做的
07:27
As long as it's good for you and good for
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其實這無關緊要
07:29
the environment, it doesn't matter.
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只要它對你、對環保都有益
07:31
But where is this going?
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可是這可以發展到什麼地步？
07:33
How can we take this idea of tricking your
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我們怎樣把這個欺騙你的味蕾的點子
07:35
tastebuds and leapfrog it into something
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發揚光大成
07:37
that we can do today that could be
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馬上就可以應用
07:39
a disruptive food technology?
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卻具顛覆性的食品科技？
07:41
So here's the next challenge.
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所以這是我們下一個挑戰
07:43
I told the staff, let's just take a bunch
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我告訴員工，就拿一堆
07:45
of wild plants, think of them as
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野生植物，視他們為
07:47
food ingredients. As long as they're
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食材。
07:49
non-poisonous to the human body,
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去芝加哥市路邊散散步
07:51
go out around Chicago sidewalks,
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只要他們對人體無毒害
07:53
take it, blend it, cook it and then
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就採摘、混和、烹調這些野生植物
07:55
have everybody flavor-trip on it at Moto.
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然後讓摩托餐廳的客人來個風味冒險
07:58
Let's charge them a boatload of cash for this
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而且還要收他們很多錢
08:00
and see what they think. (Laughter)
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然後看看他們反應如何。（笑聲）
08:04
BR: Yeah, so you can imagine, a task
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班：對啊，正如你所料，
08:06
like this -- this is another one of those
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這樣的工作─這是另一個讓我們
08:08
assignments that the kitchen staff
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廚房員工恨我們的
08:10
hated us for. But we really had to almost
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差事。但我們真的需要
08:12
relearn how to cook in general,
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重新學習如何烹調
08:15
because these are ingredients, you know,
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因為你知道，這些食材
08:17
plant life that we're, one, unfamiliar with,
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第一，這些植物都不是我們熟悉的
08:19
and two, we have no reference for how
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第二，我們也無從得知怎麼
08:21
to cook these things because
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煮這些東西，因為
08:23
people don't eat them.
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這些東西原來是不能吃的
08:25
So we really had to think about new, creative ways
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所以我們真的需要思索一些新的、有創意的方法
08:27
to flavor, new ways to cook
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來調味，以及新的烹調法
08:29
and to change texture -- and that was
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還要能改變口感，這是
08:31
the main issue with this challenge.
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這項挑戰最難的部分
08:33
HC: So this is where we step into the future
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何：這就是我們對未來的挑戰
08:36
and we leapfrog ahead.
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向前跨一大步的地方
08:38
So developing nations
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所以開發中國家
08:40
and first-world nations,
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還有第一世界的國家
08:42
imagine if you could take these wild plants
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想像一下如果你可以拿野生植物
08:44
and consume them, food miles would
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來吃，食物里程就可以
08:46
basically turn into food feet.
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變成食物旅程
08:48
This disruptive mentality of what food is
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這種對「什麼是食物」的革命性心態調整
08:50
would essentially open up the encyclopedia
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可以拓展百科全書
08:53
of what raw ingredients are, even if we just
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生食材的項目， 即使我們只是
08:55
swapped out, say, one of these for flour,
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譬如說，把上述的野花野草代替麵粉
08:57
that would eliminate so much energy
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就可以減少許多能源
09:00
and so much waste.
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及許多浪費
09:02
And to give you a simple example here as to
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所以我們拿到底我們給顧客吃什麼
09:04
what we actually fed these customers,
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做一個簡單的例子
09:06
there's a bale of hay there
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這裡有一堆稻草
09:08
and some crab apples.
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還有一些野生酸蘋果
09:10
And basically we took hay and crab apples
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基本上我們就是拿稻草及野生酸蘋果
09:12
and made barbecue sauce out of those two ingredients.
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作成烤肉醬
09:14
People swore they were eating
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大家都發誓他們吃到的
09:16
barbecue sauce, and this is free food.
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就是真的烤肉醬，而這兩種食材是免錢的
09:19
BR: Thanks, guys.
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班：謝謝各位
09:22
(Applause)
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（掌聲）
ABOUT THE SPEAKERS
Homaro Cantu - ChefThe executive chef at Chicago's Moto restaurant, Homaro Cantu created postmodern cuisine and futuristic food delivery systems.
Why you should listen
You could call Homaro Cantu a chef -- or an inventor of futuristic food delivery systems. A graduate of Le Cordon Bleu in Portland, Oregon, he worked in Charlie Trotter’s restaurant in Chicago, where he rose to the position of sous chef, then left to found Moto, a path-breaking restaurant with a molecular gastronomy approach. Moto puts Cantu’s concepts and creations into practice by melding food with science, technology and art. Michael Eisner once described Cantu as the most revolutionary person in food since Ray Kroc.
Through his company Cantu Designs, Chef Cantu filed numerous patent applications covering dining implements, cookware, printed food and hoped to develop his inventions for commercial, humanitarian and aerospace applications. In 2013 he released The Miracle Berry Diet Cookbook to imagine uses for the flavor-tripping "miracle fruit." As he said: "Any idea's a great idea as long as it tastes great." Cantu passed away in April 2015.
Homaro Cantu | Speaker | TED.com
Ben Roche - Chef
Ben Roche is the pastry chef at Moto, in Chicago, and was the co-host, with Homaro Cantu, of the TV show "Future Food."
Why you should listen
Ben Roche is the pastry chef of Moto restaurant in Chicago and co-host of the series "Future Food" on Discovery’s Planet Green network. Classically trained, he comes up with food concepts and/or dishes that draw inspiration from all over: as he says, "mechanical, artistic, experimental, etc."
More profile about the speakerBen Roche | Speaker | TED.com