TEDMED 2012
Jonathan Eisen: Meet your microbes
強納生 艾森：認識你的微生物群
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我們的身體覆蓋了數量可觀的微生物 -- 包含的致病的病原體及可能是維持我們健康的功臣，但我們了解較有限的「好」微生物。在 TEDMED，微生物學家強納生艾森分享目前我們人類所知的，包含一些意想不到的應用這些有益微生物的方式。
Jonathan Eisen - Biologist
Jonathan Eisen studies the ecology and evolution of microbial communities -- and their co-evolution with their hosts. Full bio
Jonathan Eisen studies the ecology and evolution of microbial communities -- and their co-evolution with their hosts. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:12
I'm going to start with a little story.
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我要用一個小故事做開場。
00:14
So, I grew up in this neighborhood. When I was 15 years old,
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我在這附近長大。15歲時，
00:17
I went from being what I think was a strapping young athlete,
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我從一個自信身材魁梧的年輕運動員，
00:21
over four months, slowly wasting away until
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四個多月，逐漸消瘦，
00:25
I was basically a famine victim
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瘦到像是個饑荒的災民，
00:27
with an unquenchable thirst.
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無時無刻覺得口渴
00:29
I had basically digested away my body.
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我的身體基本上被消化掉了。
00:33
And this all came to a head when I was on a backpacking trip,
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狀況嚴重到，當我自助旅行到西維吉尼亞州，
00:37
my first one ever actually, on Old Rag Mountain
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到 Old Rag Mountain, 那是我頭一回自助旅行
00:39
in West Virginia, and was putting my face into puddles
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我渴到像狗一樣趴到地上
00:43
of water and drinking like a dog.
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從地上的水坑喝水
00:45
That night, I was taken into the emergency room
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那天晚上，我被送進急診室，
00:50
and diagnosed as a type 1 diabetic in full-blown ketoacidosis.
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確診為第一型糖尿病、導致酮酸中毒。
00:54
And I recovered, thanks to the miracles of modern medicine,
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感謝現代醫學的奇蹟，胰島素和其他的東西，
01:00
insulin and other things, and gained all my weight back and more.
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我恢復健康，體重也回復，而且又胖了一些。
01:05
And something festered inside me after this happened.
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在那之後，一些念頭開始醞釀。
01:11
What I thought about was, what caused the diabetes?
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我開始想，到底是什麼造成糖尿病？
01:14
You see, diabetes is an autoimmune disease
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你們知道的，糖尿病是一種自體免疫疾病，
01:16
where your body fights itself, and at the time people thought
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你的身體攻擊自身正常的細胞，當時的認知是，
01:19
that somehow maybe exposure to a pathogen
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人體在某些狀況下接觸到的病原體
01:22
had triggered my immune system to fight the pathogen
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引發了免疫系統來對抗病原體
01:27
and then kill the cells that make insulin.
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結果殺死了製造胰島素的細胞。
01:29
And this is what I thought for a long period of time,
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關於這個理論，我思考了很長一段時間，
01:31
and that's in fact what medicine and people have focused on quite a bit,
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而醫界和大眾也大多專注在這個觀念上
01:35
the microbes that do bad things.
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那就是： 微生物是有害的。
01:38
And that's where I need my assistant here now.
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現在，我需要我的助理幫忙。
01:41
You may recognize her.
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你們可能認得她。
01:44
So, I went yesterday, I apologize, I skipped a few of the talks,
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其實，昨天，很抱歉的，我跳過了一些會談，
01:49
and I went over to the National Academy of Sciences building,
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去了國家科學院的大樓一趟，
01:52
and they sell toys, giant microbes.
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那邊有賣玩具，巨型微生物。
01:57
And here we go!
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所以...接住!
02:00
So you have caught flesh-eating disease if you caught that one.
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如果你接住那一個，你已經得到噬肉菌了
02:05
I gotta get back out my baseball ability here.
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很明顯的我已經很久沒玩棒球了
02:10
(Laughter)
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（笑聲）
02:13
So, unfortunately or not surprisingly, most of the microbes
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因此，不幸的，但不意外的是，國家科學院大樓賣的微生物娃娃，
02:20
they sell at the National Academy building are pathogens.
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大多數都是病菌，
02:23
Everybody focuses on the things that kill us,
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大家都只看到有害致死的東西，
02:26
and that's what I was focusing on.
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那也是我當時研究的重點。
02:28
And it turns out that we are covered in a cloud of microbes,
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事實上，我們被厚厚一層微生物雲覆蓋，
02:32
and those microbes actually do us good much of the time,
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而這些微生物大多時對我們有益，
02:37
rather than killing us.
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並不會致我們於死地。
02:38
And so, we've known about this for some period of time.
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而且我們了解這點已經有一段時間了。
02:41
People have used microscopes to look at the microbes that cover us,
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人們用顯微鏡觀察研究覆蓋人體的微生物，
02:45
I know you're not paying attention to me, but ...
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我知道你沒有在聽我講話，但...
02:46
(Laughter)
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（笑聲）
02:49
The microbes that cover us.
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這些覆蓋人體的微生物。
02:50
And if you look at them in the microscope,
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如果你用顯微鏡觀察它們，
02:54
you can see that we actually have 10 times as many cells
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你會發現，在人身上，
02:57
of microbes on us as we have human cells.
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微生物細胞數量其實會有人體細胞的10倍。
03:01
There's more mass in the microbes than the mass of our brain.
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而這些微生物的總重量比我們的大腦還重。
03:05
We are literally a teeming ecosystem of microorganisms.
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我們的身體是其實的微生物豐富的生態系統。
03:10
And unfortunately, if you want to learn about the microorganisms,
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可惜的是，如果你想了解這些微生物，
03:14
just looking at them in a microscope is not sufficient.
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只是用顯微鏡觀察是不夠的
03:16
And so we just heard about the DNA sequencing.
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我們剛才聽到的DNA定序，
03:19
It turns out that one of the best ways to look at microbes
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後來發現是研究微生物的最佳方法之一，
03:22
and to understand them is to look at their DNA.
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藉由研究它們的DNA，我們得到更多資訊。
03:24
And that's what I've been doing for 20 years,
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而這是我這20年來的一直在做的，
03:26
using DNA sequencing, collecting samples from various places,
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我用DNA定序分析不同來源收集的樣本，
03:30
including the human body, reading the DNA sequence
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包括人體樣本。藉由DNA定序技術，
03:33
and then using that DNA sequencing to tell us about
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我們可以從收集到DNA序列來了解
03:36
the microbes that are in a particular place.
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特定地方的微生物。
03:38
And what's amazing, when you use this technology,
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神奇的是，當你使用這個技術
03:41
for example, looking at humans, we're not just covered
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研究，例如，人體，覆蓋我們的微生物
03:44
in a sea of microbes.
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不只是數量眾多，
03:45
There are thousands upon thousands of different kinds of microbes on us.
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這些微生物有數千種不同的種類。
03:50
We have millions of genes of microbes in our human
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我們身上的「人體微生物群系」包含了
03:55
microbiome covering us.
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數百萬的基因，
03:57
And so this microbial diversity differs between people,
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而且每個人身上的微生物體系的組成都不相同，
04:01
and what people have been thinking about in the last 10,
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在過去10或15年，人們一直在思考，
04:04
maybe 15 years is, maybe these microbes,
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也許是人體裡外的微生物，
04:07
this microbial cloud in and on us,
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每個人身上的微生物雲
04:09
and the variation between us, may be responsible
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組成的差異，可能決定了
04:13
for some of the health and illness differences between us.
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一些的健康和疾病上的個體差異。
04:16
And that comes back to the diabetes story I was telling you.
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而這回到剛剛的我的糖尿病故事，
04:19
It turns out that people now think that one of the triggers
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現在人們認為，引發一型糖尿病的原因
04:23
for type 1 diabetes is not fighting a pathogen,
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不是因為人體不去對抗病原體，
04:25
but is in fact trying to -- miscommunicating with the microbes
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而是人體跟居住於其內外的微生物群
04:30
that live in and on you.
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溝通不良。
04:31
And somehow maybe the microbial community that's
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而也許是在我身上的微生物群突然不知怎的
04:34
in and on me got off, and then this triggered some sort
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消失了，然後引發某種免疫反應，
04:38
of immune response and led to me killing the cells
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導致我體內製造胰島素的細胞
04:40
that make insulin in my body.
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被攻擊破壞。
04:42
And so what I want to tell you about for a few minutes is,
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所以，接下來這幾分鐘，我想分享的是，
04:45
what people have learned using DNA sequencing techniques
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經由DNA定序技術，我們學到了些什麼，
04:49
in particular, to study the microbial cloud
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尤其是在研究人體內外的
04:53
that lives in and on us.
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存在的微生物雲。
04:54
And I want to tell you a story about a personal project.
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我現在要告訴你們另一個故事，是關於我的個人計畫。
04:57
My first personal experience with studying the microbes
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我第一次開始研究人體微生物的個人經驗，
05:00
on the human body actually came from a talk that I gave,
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其實是緣起一個我發表的講座。
05:04
right around the corner from here at Georgetown.
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那講座是在喬治城，就在附近而已。
05:06
I gave a talk, and a family friend who happened to be
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我是主講人，喬治城醫學院院長
05:09
the Dean of Georgetown Medical School was at the talk,
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也是我們家族的朋友，出席了那個講座。
05:11
and came up to me afterwards saying, they were doing
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講座結束後，院長上前來告訴我
05:14
a study of ileal transplants in people.
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他們正在做人體迴腸移植的研究。
05:17
And they wanted to look at the microbes after the transplants.
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他們想研究移植後的微生物分布情況。
05:21
And so I started a collaboration with this person,
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所以我開始跟 Michael Zasloff 及 Thomas Fishbein合作，
05:24
Michael Zasloff and Thomas Fishbein, to look at the microbes
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我們觀察迴腸移植後，
05:27
that colonized these ilea after they were transplanted into a recipient.
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微生物在迴腸內繁殖的情形。
05:32
And I can tell you all the details about the microbial study
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我可以告訴你這個微生物研究的所有細節
05:35
that we did there, but the reason I want to tell you this story
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還有我們做了什麼。但我想告訴你這個故事的原因
05:37
is something really striking that they did at the beginning
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是因為在研究計畫的初期階段，他們做了一個
05:40
of this project.
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很特別的嘗試。
05:42
They take the donor ileum, which is filled with microbes from a donor
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他們取得捐贈者的迴腸，充滿捐贈者身上的微生物，
05:46
and they have a recipient who might have a problem
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同時，受贈的病人體內微生物群也許已經失常了，
05:48
with their microbial community, say Crohn's disease,
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舉例來說，克隆氏症的患者，
05:51
and they sterilized the donor ileum.
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然後他們消毒捐贈者的迴腸，
05:54
Cleaned out all the microbes, and then put it in the recipient.
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清除所有的微生物，然後移植到受贈患者的體內。
05:59
They did this because this was common practice
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他們這樣做，是因為醫學上這是通常的手續，
06:01
in medicine, even though it was obvious
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即使很明顯的，
06:04
that this was not a good idea.
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並不是個好主意。
06:07
And fortunately, in the course of this project,
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還好，在這個研究的過程中
06:10
the transplant surgeons and the other people
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移植外科醫生和所有其他成員，
06:12
decided, forget common practice. We have to switch.
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決定：「別用慣用的手續了，我們必須更新做法。」
06:17
So they actually switched to leaving some of the microbial
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因此，他們留下部分原有的微生物群
06:21
community in the ileum. They leave the microbes with the donor,
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在迴腸裡。這些從捐贈者來源留下來
06:25
and theoretically that might help the people who are
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的微生物，理論上，可能會
06:28
receiving this ileal transplant.
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對接受移植的人有幫助。
06:30
And so, people -- this is a study that I did now.
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所以了，大家，這就是我過去幾年中所做的研究。
06:34
In the last few years there's been a great expansion
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用DNA技術來檢視人體微生物的研究
06:36
in using DNA technology to study the microbes in and on people.
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在過去幾年來有很大的擴展。
06:40
There's something called the Human Microbiome Project
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人類微生物群系研究計畫
06:42
that's going on in the United States,
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正在美國進行中，
06:44
and MetaHIT going on in Europe, and a lot of other projects.
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而在歐洲，人類腸道菌叢誌基因辨異研究計畫(MetaHIT)，和很多其他的研究也在進行。
06:46
And when people have done a variety of studies,
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當人們做了各種研究，
06:50
they have learned things such as, when a baby is
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他們發現，如，當一個嬰兒
06:53
born, during vaginal delivery you get colonized by the
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經由產道出生時，會得到
06:56
microbes from your mother.
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母體的微生物群。
06:57
There are risk factors associated with cesarean sections,
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剖腹產是帶有風險的，
07:00
some of those risk factors may be due to mis-colonization
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部分的風險因素可能起因為，
07:04
when you carve a baby out of its mother
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嬰兒直接經由剖腹被取出母體時
07:07
rather than being delivered through the birth canal.
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無法經由產道取得母體的菌群。
07:10
And a variety of other studies have shown that the
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許多不同的研究已經發現，
07:13
microbial community that lives in and on us
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在於我們體內及表面的微生物群落，
07:15
helps in development of the immune system,
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有益於我們免疫系統的發展，
07:17
helps in fighting off pathogens, helps in our metabolism,
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幫助我們擊退病原體，促進新陳代謝，
07:22
and determining our metabolic rate, probably
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並調節我們的代謝速度，可能
07:25
determines our odor, and may even shape our behavior
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還形成了我們的體味，甚至在很多的方面都，
07:28
in a variety of ways.
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影響我們的行為.
07:30
And so, these studies have documented or suggested
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而且這些研究已經證明或是推斷
07:33
out of a variety of important functions for the microbial community,
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各種重要機能經由這些微生物群、
07:38
this cloud, the non-pathogens that live in and on us.
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這層雲、非-病原體，在我們體內及體表的運作。
07:42
And one area that I think is very interesting,
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有個領域我覺得相當有意思的是，
07:46
which many of you may have now that we've thrown
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剛剛既然我們丟了一堆菌給你們，你們之中有許多人也許有這個
07:48
microbes into the crowd, is something that I would call "germophobia."
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我會稱之為「 恐菌症」。
07:52
So people are really into cleanliness, right?
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人們真的很重視清潔，你說是嗎？
07:55
We have antibiotics in our kitchen counters,
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我們廚房流理台上有抗菌產品，
07:57
people are washing every part of them all of the time,
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人們無時無刻在清洗身上的每個部分，
08:00
we pump antibiotics into our food, into our communities,
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抗生素被注入我們的食物、我們的居住環境，
08:05
we take antibiotics excessively.
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我們無結制地濫用抗生素。
08:08
And killing pathogens is a good thing if you're sick,
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如果你生病，殺光病原體是好事，
08:12
but we should understand that when we pump chemicals
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但是我們必須了解，當我們使用化學製品
08:15
and antibiotics into our world, that we're also killing
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跟抗生素在我們的環境裡，我們同時也在抹滅
08:18
the cloud of microbes that live in and on us.
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跟我們共生的微生物雲。
08:20
And excessive use of antibiotics, in particular in children,
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抗生素的過度使用，尤其是在兒童身上，
08:23
has been shown to be associated with, again, risk factors
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研究發現，跟造成肥胖、自體免疫疾病
08:26
for obesity, for autoimmune diseases, for a variety
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還有其他各種健康問題的風險因素息息相關，
08:31
of problems that are probably due to disruption
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因為人體的微生物群落，
08:33
of the microbial community.
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被抗生素干擾破壞。
08:36
So the microbial community can go wrong
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所以微生物群落可能會失常，
08:39
whether we want it to or not,
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不管我們喜不喜歡,
08:41
or we can kill it with antibiotics,
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或者可以用抗生素殺光這些微生物，
08:43
but what can we do to restore it?
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但我們怎樣可以重建微生物群落？
08:45
I'm sure many people here have heard about probiotics.
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我相信這裡有很多人聽說過關於益生菌。
08:48
Probiotics are one thing that you can try and do to restore
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益生菌可以用來嘗試
08:51
the microbial community that is in and on you.
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重建體內及體表的微生物群落，
08:54
And they definitely have been shown to be effective in some cases.
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而且已經有些成功的案例。
08:57
There's a project going on at UC Davis where people are using
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在加州大學戴維斯分校正在進行一個計畫，
09:00
probiotics to try and treat, prevent,
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他們嘗試用益生菌來治療和預防
09:03
necrotizing enterocolitis in premature infants.
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早產兒的壞死性腸炎。
09:06
Premature infants have real problems with their microbial community.
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早產兒的身上的微生物群落問題多多，
09:09
And it may be that probiotics can help prevent
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而也許益生菌可以幫助預防
09:12
the development of this horrible necrotizing enterocolitis
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早產兒罹患
09:15
in these premature infants.
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這可怕的壞死性腸炎。
09:16
But probiotics are sort of a very, very simple solution.
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但是，益生菌是一個非常，非常簡易的解決方式。
09:20
Most of the pills that you can take or the yogurts that you can eat
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大多數的益生菌錠或是優酪乳
09:24
have one or two species in them, maybe five species in them,
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含有一或兩種菌種，或是五種菌種，
09:28
and the human community is thousands upon thousands of species.
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而人體的微生物群系有數千種的菌種。
09:32
So what can we do to restore our microbial community
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所以，什麼方法可以重建我們的微生物群系
09:36
when we have thousands and thousands of species on us?
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當我們的微生物群系是由數千種菌種組成的?
09:39
Well, one thing that animals seem to do is,
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嗯，動物所做的一件事是，
09:42
they eat poo -- coprophagia.
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他們吃便便 - 所謂的嗜糞癖。
09:46
And it turns out that many veterinarians,
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原來，許多獸醫，
09:51
old school veterinarians in particular,
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尤其是老經驗的獸醫，
09:53
have been doing something called "poo tea,"
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一直在用一種叫「便便茶」，
09:55
not booty, but poo tea, to treat colic and other
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不是屁屁，而是便便茶，來治療馬和牛
10:01
ailments in horses and cows and things like that,
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腹絞痛及其他之類的毛病。
10:05
where you make tea from the poo from a healthy
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作法是用健康的動物的糞便做成茶，
10:09
individual animal and you feed it to a sick animal.
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然後餵食給生病的動物。
10:12
Although, unless you have a fistulated cow with a big hole in its side,
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但是，除非你有隻牛，肚子一側開了一個大洞，
10:16
and you can put your hand into its rumen,
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你可以把你的手，伸入牠的瘤胃之外，
10:19
it's hard to imagine that the delivery of microbes
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很難想像，從嘴巴經過整個上消化道
10:22
directly into the mouth and through the entire
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將微生物送入
10:25
top of the digestive tract is the best delivery system,
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會是最好的運輸方式。
10:29
so you may have heard in people they are now doing
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所以，你可能已經聽說有人在做
10:33
fecal transplants, where rather than delivering
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糞便移植，與其將少數益生菌種
10:38
a couple of probiotic microbes through the mouth,
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經由口部送入，
10:40
they are delivering a community of probiotics,
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他們是將整個益生菌的群系，
10:43
a community of microbes from a healthy donor,
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從健康的捐贈者取得的群系，
10:46
through the other end.
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從消化道的另一端送入。
10:48
And this has turned out to be very effective in fighting
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結果發現這樣做對於
10:51
certain intransigent infectious diseases
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對抗某些頑固的傳染病非常有效。
10:54
like Clostridium difficile infections that can stay
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例如可以存留人體多年的
10:58
with people for years and years and years.
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困難腸梭菌。
11:00
Transplants of the feces, of the microbes from the feces,
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經由糞便移植，
11:05
from a healthy donor has actually been shown to cure
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取得健康捐贈者的糞便中的微生物，
11:07
systemic C. dif infections in some people.
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事實上已經有成功治癒困難腸梭菌感染的案例。
11:10
Now what these transplants, these fecal transplants, or
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因為這些新的移植手術手法、糞便移植
11:16
the poo tea suggest to me, and many other people
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或是便便茶的應用，讓我還有許多人
11:21
have come up with this same idea, is that
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有了同一個想法，就是
11:22
the microbial community in and on us, it's an organ.
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這存在於我們體內及表面的微生物群系，其實是個器官。
11:26
We should view it as a functioning organ, part of ourselves.
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我們應該把這當做是一個正常運作的器官，自己的一部分看待。
11:31
We should treat it carefully and with respect,
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我們應該認真對待和尊重，
11:35
and we do not want to mess with it, say by C-sections
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不應該擾亂其平衡，像是沒有必要的狀況下，
11:39
or by antibiotics or excessive cleanliness,
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進行剖腹產、使用抗生素、
11:44
without some real good justification.
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或是過度清潔。
11:47
And what the DNA sequencing technologies are allowing people to do now
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而因為DNA定序技術，今天人們可以
11:51
is do detailed studies of, say, 100 patients who have Crohn's disease
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做詳細的研究，比方說，比較100個克隆氏症患者
11:58
and 100 people who don't have Crohn's disease.
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跟100個沒有克隆氏症的人。
12:00
Or 100 people who took antibiotics when they were little,
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或是比較100個小時候服用過生素的人，
12:04
and 100 people who did not take antibiotics.
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跟100個沒有服用抗生素的人。
12:07
And we can now start to compare the community of microbes
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我們現在可以開始比較群系裡的微生物，
12:11
and their genes and see if there are differences.
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和他們的基因，看看是否有差異。
12:14
And eventually we may be able to understand if they're not
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最終我們可能能夠明白，是否他們不
12:17
just correlative differences, but causative.
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只是有相關的差異，還有因果上的差異性。
12:20
Studies in model systems like mouse and other animals
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使用老鼠或是其他動物的實驗模型系統所做的研究，
12:24
are also helping do this, but people are now using
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也同時幫助我們了解更多，但人們使用DNA
12:27
these technologies because they've gotten very cheap,
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技術是因為其成本已經變得非常低廉，
12:29
to study the microbes in and on a variety of people.
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可研究不同人身上的微生物。
12:33
So, in wrapping up, what I want to tell you about is,
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作為總結，我現在想告訴你們的是，
12:38
I didn't tell you a part of the story of coming down with diabetes.
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我剛剛沒告訴你們我得到糖尿病的過程。
12:41
It turns out that my father was an M.D.,
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其實，我父親是醫生，
12:44
actually studied hormones. I told him many times
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而且他的專科是研究內分泌激素。
很多次我告訴他，
很多次我告訴他，
12:48
that I was tired, thirsty, not feeling very good.
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我很累，很渴，人很不舒服。
12:53
And he shrugged it off, I think he either thought
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他聳聳肩，我認為，他要麼想，
12:56
I was just complaining a lot, or it was the typical
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我只是愛抱怨，或是
12:59
M.D. "nothing can be wrong with my children."
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醫生常有的「我的小孩怎麼可能會有毛病」心態
13:02
We even went to the International Society of Endocrinology
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甚至 我們全家一起去魁北克
13:05
meeting as family in Quebec.
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參加國際內分泌學會會議時，
13:07
And I was getting up every five minutes to pee,
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我每五分鐘就要起床尿尿，
13:12
and drinking everybody's water at the table,
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吃飯時我渴到得喝光每個人的水
13:15
and I think they all thought I was a druggie.
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我想，他們大概都認為我嗑藥了。
13:18
(Laughter)
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（笑聲）
13:20
But the reason I'm telling you this is that
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但我告訴你這個的原因是，
13:22
the medical community, my father as an example,
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醫學界，以我父親作為一個例子，
13:25
sometimes doesn't see what's right in front of their eyes.
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有時反而看不見眼前發生的事。
13:28
The microbial cloud, it is right in front of us.
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這層微生物雲，就在我們眼前，
13:32
We can't see it most of the time. It's invisible.
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即使大部分時間我們看不見它，它是隱形的。
13:35
They're microbes. They're tiny.
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微生物是極渺小的，
13:36
But we can see them through their DNA,
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但是我們可以看見他們，經由他們的DNA。
13:39
we can see them through the effects that they have on people.
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但是我們可以看見他們，經由他們對人們的影響。
13:43
And what we need now
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而我們現在需要的是，
13:44
is to start thinking about this microbial community in the context
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開始思考微生物群落
13:48
of everything in human medicine.
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在人類醫學的每一個層面。
13:50
It doesn't mean that it affects every part of us,
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這不表示微生物影響我們的每一部分，
13:53
but it might.
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但不排除這樣的可能性。
13:55
What we need is a full field guide to the microbes
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我們需要的是對人體的微生物
13:59
that live in and on people, so that we can understand
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有一個整體的了解，才能了解
14:02
what they're doing to our lives.
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他們對我們生活的影響。
14:05
We are them. They are us.
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微生物跟人類，共生共存。
14:08
Thank you.
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謝謝
14:10
(Applause)
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（掌聲）
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Jonathan Eisen - BiologistJonathan Eisen studies the ecology and evolution of microbial communities -- and their co-evolution with their hosts.
Why you should listen
Research in Jonathan Eisen's lab focuses on the “phylogenomics of novelty” in microbes. Among their major research themes are:
• the genomic basis for the origin and evolution of new functions
• the ecology and evolution of microbial communities
• the co-evolution of microbes and their carrying vessels (i.e., hosts)
• variation in “evolvability”
• the development of phylogeny driven computational tools to analyze genomic and metagenomic sequence data.
Eisen is also a strong proponent of the Open Access movement in scientific publishing and is Academic Editor in Chief of PLoS Biology. Dr. Eisen is also an active and award-winning science blogger on The Tree of Life. For recent news see @phylogenomics.
Jonathan Eisen | Speaker | TED.com