TEDWomen 2018
Nora McInerny: We don't "move on" from grief. We move forward with it
諾拉．馬金拿尼: 不用脫離悲傷「走下去」，我們帶著它向前走。
Filmed:
Readability: 3
3,856,087 views
身為一個作家和播客經營者，諾拉．馬金拿尼把她對生命和死亡所悟得的智慧變成一個令人心碎又幽默的故事。她用直率的方法處理每個人都終將面對的事，既令人感到暢快，同時也痛苦糾結。最具力量的是，她鼓勵我們改變處理哀痛的方法。「哀痛的人終將再度展開笑顏，」她說道：「他們會繼續向前，但並不表示他們已走出傷痛。」
Nora McInerny - Author, podcast host
Nora McInerny makes a living talking to people about life's hardest moments. Full bio
Nora McInerny makes a living talking to people about life's hardest moments. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:12
So, 2014 was a big year for me.
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2014 年對我來說是很重要的一年。
00:15
Do you ever have that,
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你們有沒有過
00:16
just like a big year, like a banner year?
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像這種重要的一年，像是豐年？
00:19
For me, it went like this:
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對我來說，事情是這樣的：
00:20
October 3, I lost my second pregnancy.
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十月三日，我的第二胎流產了。
00:23
And then October 8, my dad died of cancer.
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十月八日，我爸爸因為癌症過世。
00:27
And then on November 25,
my husband Aaron died
my husband Aaron died
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十一月二十五日，
我先生艾倫過世了，
我先生艾倫過世了，
00:29
after three years
with stage-four glioblastoma,
with stage-four glioblastoma,
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那時他已經經歷了三年
第四期膠質母細胞瘤，
第四期膠質母細胞瘤，
00:32
which is just a fancy word
for brain cancer.
for brain cancer.
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說白了就是腦瘤。
00:36
So, I'm fun.
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所以，我變得很好玩。
00:38
(Laughter)
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（笑聲）
00:40
People love to invite me out all the time.
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大家都喜歡一天到晚找我出去。
00:43
Packed social life.
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社交生活滿檔。
00:45
Usually, when I talk
about this period of my life,
about this period of my life,
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通常，當我談到
我人生中的這段時期時，
我人生中的這段時期時，
00:48
the reaction I get is essentially:
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我得到的反應基本上都是：
00:51
(Sighs)
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（嘆氣）
00:53
"I can't -- I can't imagine."
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「我無法——我無法想像。」
00:57
But I do think you can.
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但，我認為你們可以。
00:59
I think you can.
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我真的認為你們可以。
01:00
And I think that you should
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我認為你們應該想像，
01:02
because, someday,
it's going to happen to you.
it's going to happen to you.
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因為，有一天，
你們也會遇到這種事。
你們也會遇到這種事。
01:04
Maybe not these specific losses
in this specific order or at this speed,
in this specific order or at this speed,
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也許不是完全一樣的損失，
不是依照這個順序或這種速度，
不是依照這個順序或這種速度，
01:09
but like I said, I'm very fun
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但我剛說過，我很好玩，
01:10
and the research
that I have seen will stun you:
that I have seen will stun you:
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而我看過的研究會讓你們非常震驚：
01:14
everyone you love has
a 100 percent chance of dying.
a 100 percent chance of dying.
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你們所愛的每一個人，
死掉的機率都是 100%。
死掉的機率都是 100%。
01:18
(Laughter)
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（笑聲）
01:20
And that's why you came to TED.
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那就是為什麼你們要來 TED。
01:22
(Laughter)
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（笑聲）
01:24
(Applause)
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（掌聲）
01:28
So, since all of this loss happened,
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所以，既然已經失去了這些，
01:30
I've made it a career
to talk about death and loss,
to talk about death and loss,
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我便把談論死亡和失去
變成我的職業，
變成我的職業，
01:34
not just my own,
because it's pretty easy to recap,
because it's pretty easy to recap,
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不只是談我自己的，
因為幾句話就講完了，
因為幾句話就講完了，
01:36
but the losses and tragedies
that other people have experienced.
that other people have experienced.
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也要談其他人經歷過的失去和悲劇。
01:40
It's a niche, I have to say.
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這是個很少人從事的商機。
01:43
(Laughter)
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（笑聲）
這個商機很小，
我希望能賺更多錢，但……
我希望能賺更多錢，但……
01:45
It's a small niche,
and I wish I made more money, but ...
and I wish I made more money, but ...
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01:48
(Laughter)
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（笑聲）
01:49
I've written some very uplifting books,
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我寫過一些非常鼓舞人心的書，
01:52
host a very uplifting podcast,
I started a little nonprofit.
I started a little nonprofit.
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主持過非常鼓舞人心的播客節目，
創辦了一間小型非營利組織。
01:56
I'm just trying to do what I can
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我只是在嘗試盡我所能
01:57
to make more people comfortable
with the uncomfortable,
with the uncomfortable,
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讓更多人能夠對讓人
不舒服的事情感到舒服些，
不舒服的事情感到舒服些，
02:01
and grief is so uncomfortable.
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悲傷是如此讓人不舒服。
02:04
It's so uncomfortable,
especially if it's someone else's grief.
especially if it's someone else's grief.
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它是如此讓人不舒服，
特別是別人的悲傷。
特別是別人的悲傷。
02:09
So part of that work is this group
that I started with my friend Moe,
that I started with my friend Moe,
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所以，我做的其中一件事，
就是和我的朋友莫成立一個團體，
就是和我的朋友莫成立一個團體，
02:13
who is also a widow;
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莫也是寡婦；
02:14
we call it the Hot Young Widows Club.
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我們把這個團體稱為
年輕辣寡婦俱樂部。
年輕辣寡婦俱樂部。
02:17
(Laughter)
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（笑聲）
02:18
And it's real, we have membership cards
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是真的，我們還有會員卡
02:21
and T-shirts.
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和 T 恤。
02:23
And when your person dies,
your husband, wife, girlfriend, boyfriend,
your husband, wife, girlfriend, boyfriend,
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當你的另一半走了，
你的丈夫、妻子、女友、男友，
你的丈夫、妻子、女友、男友，
02:26
literally don't care if you were married,
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不管是否結了婚，
02:28
your friends and your family
are just going to look around
are just going to look around
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你的朋友和家人就會開始到處找，
02:31
through friends of friends
of friends of friends
of friends of friends
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透過朋友的朋友的
朋友的朋友去問，
朋友的朋友去問，
02:34
until they find someone
who's gone through something similar,
who's gone through something similar,
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直到他們找到有類似經歷的人，
02:37
and then they'll push you
towards each other
towards each other
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接著他們就會把你們撮合起來，
02:39
so you can talk amongst yourselves
and not get your sad on other people.
and not get your sad on other people.
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讓你們可以在彼此間交談，
不要把你們的悲傷帶給其他人。
不要把你們的悲傷帶給其他人。
02:43
(Laughter)
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（笑聲）
02:45
So that's what we do.
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那就是我們在做的。
02:47
It's just a series of small groups,
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我們辦一連串的小團體聚會，
02:50
where men, women, gay, straight,
married, partnered,
married, partnered,
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讓男人、女人、同性戀、
異性戀、已婚者、同居者
異性戀、已婚者、同居者
02:54
can talk about their dead person,
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能夠談他們身邊已故的人，
02:58
and say the things
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去坦然說一些
03:00
that the other people in their lives
aren't ready or willing to hear yet.
aren't ready or willing to hear yet.
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其他人在他們的人生中還沒有
準備好要聽或不願意聽的話。
準備好要聽或不願意聽的話。
03:03
Huge range of conversations.
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對話的範圍很廣。
03:06
Like, "My husband died two weeks ago,
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比如「我先生兩週前過世了，
03:08
I can't stop thinking
about sex, is that normal?"
about sex, is that normal?"
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我一直在想著性，
無法停止，這正常嗎？」
無法停止，這正常嗎？」
03:10
Yeah.
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當然正常啊。
03:11
"What if it's one
of the Property Brothers?"
of the Property Brothers?"
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「如果幻想對象是
《房產兄弟》之一呢？」
《房產兄弟》之一呢？」
03:13
Less normal, but I'll accept it.
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較不常見，但我可以接受。
03:15
(Laughter)
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（笑聲）
03:18
Things like, "Look, when I'm out in public
and I see old people holding hands,
and I see old people holding hands,
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還有像是：「當我在公共場合
看到老人家手牽手，
看到老人家手牽手，
03:22
couples who have clearly
been together for decades,
been together for decades,
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很顯然是已經在一起
數十年的夫妻，
數十年的夫妻，
03:25
and then I look at them and I imagine
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我就會看著他們，並想像著，
03:27
all of the things they've been
through together,
through together,
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他們曾經一起經歷過的所有事，
03:30
the good things, the bad things,
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有好事也有壞事，
03:31
the arguments they've had
over who should take out the trash ...
over who should take out the trash ...
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為了誰要去倒垃圾而鬥嘴……
03:34
I just find my heart filled with rage."
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我就發現我的心裡充滿了怒火。」
03:37
(Laughter)
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（笑聲）
03:38
And that example is personal to me.
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那個例子我有經驗。
03:42
Most of the conversations
that we have in the group
that we have in the group
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我們在團體中的多數對談，
03:45
can and will just stay amongst ourselves,
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都能也都會只留在我們彼此之間，
03:47
but there are things that we talk about
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但我們談論的內容中也有一些
03:49
that the rest of the world --
the world that is grief-adjacent
the world that is grief-adjacent
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是世界上其他人——和悲傷很接近
03:52
but not yet grief-stricken --
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但還沒有被悲傷侵襲的世界——
真的能夠從聽當中受益。
03:53
could really benefit from hearing.
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03:55
And if you can't tell,
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如果你們無法看出來，
03:57
I'm only interested in / capable
of unscientific studies,
of unscientific studies,
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我其實只想要讀／只讀得懂
非科學性的研究，
非科學性的研究，
04:01
so what I did was go to
The Hot Young Widows Club
The Hot Young Widows Club
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所以，我所做的就是
去年輕辣寡婦俱樂部，
去年輕辣寡婦俱樂部，
04:03
and say, "Hello, friends, remember
when your person died?" They did.
when your person died?" They did.
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並說：「哈囉，朋友們，
記得你們另一半過世的時候嗎？」
記得你們另一半過世的時候嗎？」
他們記得。
04:08
"Do you remember all the things
people said to you?"
people said to you?"
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「記得其他人對你說的話嗎？」
04:11
"Oh, yeah."
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「喔，當然。」
04:12
"Which ones did you hate the most?"
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「哪些是你最痛恨的？」
04:14
I got a lot of comments, lot of answers,
people say a lot of things,
people say a lot of things,
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我得到許多意見，
許多答案，大家說了很多，
許多答案，大家說了很多，
04:17
but two rose to the top pretty quickly.
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但有兩項馬上衝上排行榜。
04:20
"Moving on."
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「走下去」。
04:23
Now, since 2014,
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從 2014 年起，
04:26
I will tell you I have remarried
a very handsome man named Matthew,
a very handsome man named Matthew,
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我告訴你們，
我再嫁給了一個
非常帥的男人，馬修，
非常帥的男人，馬修，
04:30
we have four children
in our blended family,
in our blended family,
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在我們的混合家庭中，
我們有四個孩子，
我們有四個孩子，
04:33
we live in the suburbs
of Minneapolis, Minnesota, USA.
of Minneapolis, Minnesota, USA.
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我們住在美國明尼蘇達州
明尼亞波里斯的郊區。
明尼亞波里斯的郊區。
我們收養了一隻棄犬。
04:36
We have a rescue dog.
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04:38
(Laughter)
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（笑聲）
04:39
I drive a minivan,
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我開的車是小休旅車，
04:41
like the kind where doors open
and I don't even touch them.
and I don't even touch them.
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就是那種我根本沒碰，
門就會自己打開的車。
門就會自己打開的車。
04:43
(Laughter)
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（笑聲）
04:45
Like, by any "mezhure," life is good.
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不論用什麼標準（怪異發音）來看，
我的生活都算很好。
我的生活都算很好。
04:48
I've also never said "mezhure,"
I've never once said it that way.
I've never once said it that way.
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我也從來沒有說過「標準」
（怪異發音），一次都沒有。
（怪異發音），一次都沒有。
04:51
(Laughter)
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（笑聲）
04:56
I don't know where that came from.
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我不知道我為什麼這麼發音。
04:58
(Laughter)
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（笑聲）
05:00
I've never heard
anyone else say it that way.
anyone else say it that way.
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我沒聽過任何其他人這樣發音。
05:02
It looks like it should be said that way,
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看起來它就應該要這麼唸，
05:04
and that's why the English
language is trash, so ...
language is trash, so ...
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那就是為什麼英文是垃圾……
05:07
(Laughter)
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（笑聲）
05:08
So impressed with anyone
who, like, speaks it
who, like, speaks it
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所以，我很佩服有人可以
05:10
in addition to a language
that makes sense -- good job.
that makes sense -- good job.
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說一種合理的語言之外，
還會說英文——幹得好。
還會說英文——幹得好。
05:13
(Laughter)
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（笑聲）
05:15
But by any measure ...
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但，不論用什麼標準——
05:16
(Laughter)
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（笑聲）
05:18
By any measure, life is really,
really good, but I haven't "moved on."
really good, but I haven't "moved on."
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不論用什麼標準來看，
我的生活都真的很好，
我的生活都真的很好，
但我還沒有「走下去」。
05:24
I haven't moved on,
and I hate that phrase so much,
and I hate that phrase so much,
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我還沒有走下去，
我好討厭「走下去」這個說法，
我好討厭「走下去」這個說法，
05:27
and I understand why other people do.
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我了解其他人為何也討厭它。
05:28
Because what it says
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因為它的意思是，
05:30
is that Aaron's life and death
and love are just moments
and love are just moments
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艾倫的人生、死亡，以及愛，
都只是一些時刻，
都只是一些時刻，
05:34
that I can leave behind me --
and that I probably should.
and that I probably should.
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我可以把它們拋諸腦後——
且我也應該這麼做。
且我也應該這麼做。
05:38
And when I talk about Aaron,
I slip so easily into the present tense,
I slip so easily into the present tense,
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當我談艾倫時，我很容易
不小心就用現在式，
不小心就用現在式，
05:42
and I've always thought
that made we weird.
that made we weird.
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我總覺得那讓我顯得很怪。
05:45
And then I noticed that everybody does it.
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接著，我發現別人也會這麼做。
05:48
And it's not because we are in denial
or because we're forgetful,
or because we're forgetful,
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並不是因為我們在否認
或是我們很健忘，
或是我們很健忘，
05:52
it's because the people
we love, who we've lost,
we love, who we've lost,
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是因為我們愛的人、我們失去的人
05:55
are still so present for us.
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對我們來說仍然還在。
05:58
So, when I say, "Oh, Aaron is ..."
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所以，當我說：「喔，
艾倫是（現在式）……」
艾倫是（現在式）……」
06:02
It's because Aaron still is.
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那就是因為艾倫的確仍然是。
06:05
And it's not in the way
that he was before,
that he was before,
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這和他以前的存在方式不一樣，
06:07
which was much better,
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以前的方式好很多，
06:09
and it's not in the way that churchy
people try to tell me that he would be.
people try to tell me that he would be.
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這和教會的人試著告訴我的，
他將來會存在的方式也不一樣。
他將來會存在的方式也不一樣。
06:12
It's just that he's indelible,
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只是，他是無法抹滅的，
06:17
and so he is present for me.
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所以對我來說他還在。
06:20
Here,
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在這裡，
06:21
he's present for me in the work that I do,
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他還在我的所做的工作中，
06:24
in the child that we had together,
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在我們一起生的孩子中，
06:26
in these three other children I'm raising,
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在我所養育的三個孩子中，
06:28
who never met him,
who share none of his DNA,
who share none of his DNA,
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這三個孩子從未見過他，
沒有他的 DNA，
沒有他的 DNA，
06:31
but who are only in my life
because I had Aaron
because I had Aaron
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但他們會出現在我生命的唯一原因，
就是因為我曾經有過艾倫，
06:35
and because I lost Aaron.
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因為我失去了艾倫。
06:38
He's present in my marriage to Matthew,
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他存在於我和馬修的婚姻中，
06:40
because Aaron's life and love and death
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因為艾倫的生命、愛，以及死亡
06:43
made me the person
that Matthew wanted to marry.
that Matthew wanted to marry.
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讓我成為馬修想要娶的這個人。
06:46
So I've not moved on from Aaron,
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所以，我並沒有放下艾倫走下去，
06:50
I've moved forward with him.
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我和他一起向前走。
06:56
(Applause)
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（掌聲）
07:02
We spread Aaron's ashes
in his favorite river in Minnesota,
in his favorite river in Minnesota,
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我們把艾倫的骨灰灑在
明尼蘇達他最喜歡的河裡，
明尼蘇達他最喜歡的河裡，
07:07
and when the bag was empty --
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當袋子空了之後——
07:09
because when you're cremated,
you fit into a plastic bag --
you fit into a plastic bag --
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因為當你被火葬之後，
你就能裝進一個塑膠袋裡——
你就能裝進一個塑膠袋裡——
07:13
there were still ashes
stuck to my fingers.
stuck to my fingers.
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還有一些骨灰卡在我的手指上。
07:16
And I could have just put my hands
in the water and rinsed them,
in the water and rinsed them,
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我本來可以把我的雙手
放到水中沖洗，
放到水中沖洗，
07:20
but instead, I licked my hands clean,
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但我卻選擇把我的手舔乾淨，
07:23
because I was so afraid of losing more
than I had already lost,
than I had already lost,
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因為我好害怕除了我已經
失去的之外，我還會失去更多，
失去的之外，我還會失去更多，
07:27
and I was so desperate to make sure
that he would always be a part of me.
that he would always be a part of me.
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且我很迫切想要確保
他將永遠是我的一部分。
他將永遠是我的一部分。
07:32
But of course he would be.
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但他當然會是我的一部分。
07:34
Because when you watch your person
fill himself with poison for three years,
fill himself with poison for three years,
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因為當你看著你的另一半
灌毒藥灌了三年，
灌毒藥灌了三年，
07:39
just so he can stay alive
a little bit longer with you,
a little bit longer with you,
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只是為了想再活久一點，來陪伴你，
07:42
that stays with you.
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你沒辦法忘懷的。
07:45
When you watch him fade from the healthy
person he was the night you met
person he was the night you met
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當你眼見當年初識的那個健康的男人
07:49
to nothing, that stays with you.
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化為烏有，你是無法忘懷的。
07:51
When you watch your son,
who isn't even two years old yet,
who isn't even two years old yet,
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當你看著你不到 2 歲的兒子，
07:54
walk up to his father's bed
on the last day of his life,
on the last day of his life,
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走到他父親臨終的床邊，
07:57
like he knows what's coming
in a few hours,
in a few hours,
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他好像知道將要發生的事情似的，
07:59
and say, "I love you. All done. Bye, bye."
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然後說：「我愛你，就這樣，再見。」
08:05
That stays with you.
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你是無法忘懷的。
08:09
Just like when you fall in love,
finally, like really fall in love
finally, like really fall in love
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就好像你終於愛上一個人，
真正的愛上他，
真正的愛上他，
08:14
with someone who gets you and sees you
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他能了解和看見真實的你。
08:16
and you even see, "Oh, my God,
I've been wrong this entire time.
I've been wrong this entire time.
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這時你才了解：
「天啊！我長久來都錯了。
「天啊！我長久來都錯了。
08:19
Love is not a contest
or a reality show -- it's so quiet,
or a reality show -- it's so quiet,
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愛情不是一場競賽或真人秀，
它是那麼的安靜。
它是那麼的安靜。
08:24
it's this invisible thread of calm
that connects the two of us
that connects the two of us
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愛情就像一條平靜的線繩，
牽繫著我們兩人，
牽繫著我們兩人，
08:28
even when everything is chaos,
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就算一切都很紛亂，
08:29
when things are falling apart,
even when he's gone."
even when he's gone."
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2926
就算生活開始瓦解，
就算他走了，還是一樣。」
就算他走了，還是一樣。」
08:34
That stays with you.
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你無法忘懷的。
08:38
We used to do this thing --
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我有個小癖好：
08:40
because my hands are always
freezing and he's so warm,
freezing and he's so warm,
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我的手總是冰的，而他很溫暖，
08:43
where I would take my ice-cold hands
and shove them up his shirt ...
and shove them up his shirt ...
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我會把我冰冷的手伸到他上衣裡，
08:46
press them against his hot bod.
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2009
貼在他溫熱的身體上。
08:48
(Laughter)
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2063
（笑聲）
08:51
And he hated it so much,
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他很討厭我這麼做，
08:53
(Laughter)
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1021
（笑聲）
08:54
but he loved me,
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1358
但他是愛我的，
08:56
and after he died,
I laid in bed with Aaron
I laid in bed with Aaron
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他死時，我躺在他身邊，
09:01
and I put my hands underneath him
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把我的手放在他身體下，
09:05
and I felt his warmth.
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我感受到他身體的餘溫。
09:10
And I can't even tell you
if my hands were cold,
if my hands were cold,
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我沒注意到我的手是不是冰冷的，
09:13
but I can tell you
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但我可以告訴你，
09:15
that I knew it was the last time
I would ever do that.
I would ever do that.
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我知道那是我最後一次能做這件事。
09:20
And that that memory
is always going to be sad.
is always going to be sad.
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3200
那份記憶回想起來永遠都是悲傷的，
09:23
That memory will always hurt.
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永遠會帶來傷痛，
就算我活到 600 歲，
變成 3D 全像時，還是一樣。
變成 3D 全像時，還是一樣。
09:26
Even when I'm 600 years old
and I'm just a hologram.
and I'm just a hologram.
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2844
09:28
(Laughter)
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（笑聲）
09:32
Just like the memory of meeting him
is always going to make me laugh.
is always going to make me laugh.
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5693
就像與他邂逅的回憶
總是讓我開心大笑。
總是讓我開心大笑。
09:39
Grief doesn't happen in this vacuum,
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哀慟不是在生活的空白時發生，
09:41
it happens alongside of and mixed in
with all of these other emotions.
with all of these other emotions.
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哀慟和許多其他情緒摻雜交錯。
09:50
So, I met Matthew, my current husband --
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我認識了我的現任老公，
09:54
who doesn't love that title,
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他不喜歡「現任老公」這個稱號，
09:56
(Laughter)
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（笑聲）
10:00
but it's so accurate.
201
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但這是很正確的稱號。
10:02
(Laughter)
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2610
（笑聲）
10:05
I met Matthew, and ...
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我認識馬修之後，
10:09
there was this audible sigh of relief
among the people who love me,
among the people who love me,
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3331
周圍愛我的人都鬆了一口氣，
10:12
like, "It's over!
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像是在說：「傷痛期終於過去了！
10:16
She did it.
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1150
她走出來了！
10:19
She got a happy ending,
we can all go home.
we can all go home.
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2468
她有了幸福的結局，
我們可以放心了。
我們可以放心了。
10:21
And we did good."
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2001
我們做得不錯。」
10:23
And that narrative
is so appealing even to me,
is so appealing even to me,
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3023
這段話連我都覺得有說服力，
10:26
and I thought maybe
I had gotten that, too, but I didn't.
I had gotten that, too, but I didn't.
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感覺好像我真的得到
那個幸福結局，但並不是。
那個幸福結局，但並不是。
10:30
I got another chapter.
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我得到的是生命的一個新的篇章，
10:33
And it's such a good chapter --
I love you, honey --
I love you, honey --
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一個很棒的篇章。
——我愛你，親愛的——
10:37
it's such a good chapter.
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1745
真的很棒的篇章。
10:39
But especially at the beginning,
it was like an alternate universe,
it was like an alternate universe,
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3861
尤其是一開始的時候，
感覺像是身在平行宇宙中，
感覺像是身在平行宇宙中，
10:43
or one of those old "choose your
own adventure" books from the '80s
own adventure" books from the '80s
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3158
或是活在「選擇自己的冒險」
那種 80 年代流行的書裡，
那種 80 年代流行的書裡，
10:46
where there are two parallel plot lines.
216
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1928
就像兩段平行的故事情節。
10:48
So I opened my heart to Matthew,
217
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1594
當我對馬修敞開心胸時，
10:50
and my brain was like,
"Would you like to think about Aaron?
"Would you like to think about Aaron?
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3764
我腦子裡有個聲音說：
「你要不要想想艾倫？」
「你要不要想想艾倫？」
10:54
Like, the past, the present, future,
just get in there," and I did.
just get in there," and I did.
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「過去、現在、未來，都好好想想。」
我照做了。
10:59
And all of a sudden,
those two plots were unfurling at once,
those two plots were unfurling at once,
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突然間，這兩段情節
同時在我眼前展開，
同時在我眼前展開，
11:02
and falling in love with Matthew
really helped me realize the enormity
really helped me realize the enormity
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愛上馬修真正讓我了解到，
艾倫走後，我所失去了很多。
11:05
of what I lost when Aaron died.
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11:09
And just as importantly,
223
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1163
同時，
11:10
it helped me realize
that my love for Aaron
that my love for Aaron
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3750
我也了解到我對艾倫的愛
11:14
and my grief for Aaron,
225
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我對他的悲痛，
11:16
and my love for Matthew,
are not opposing forces.
are not opposing forces.
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4531
以及對馬修的愛，並不互相對立，
11:22
They are just strands to the same thread.
227
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2800
而是同一條繩子上兩股線。
11:26
They're the same stuff.
228
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1533
它們是一樣的東西。
11:30
I'm ... what would my parents say?
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我是……我爸媽是怎麼說的？
11:33
I'm not special.
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1539
我並不特別。
11:35
(Laughter)
231
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1015
（笑聲）
11:36
They had four kids,
they were like ... frankly.
they were like ... frankly.
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2536
他們有四個小孩，他們……老實說。
11:39
(Laughter)
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1785
（笑聲）
11:41
But I'm not, I'm not special.
234
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1768
但我真的一點也不特別。
11:42
I know that, I'm fully aware
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2058
我很清楚，完全明白，
11:44
that all day, every day,
all around the world,
all around the world,
236
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2507
一整天，每一天，在世界各地，
11:47
terrible things are happening.
237
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都有不好的事情發生，
11:49
All the time.
238
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1151
無時無刻。
11:50
Like I said, fun person.
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1745
就像我說的，我很好玩吧！
11:52
But terrible things are happening,
240
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2486
但可怕的事情隨時在發生，
11:54
people are experiencing deeply formative
and traumatic losses every day.
and traumatic losses every day.
241
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6394
每天都有人經歷著
失去所刻畫出難以磨滅的傷痕。
失去所刻畫出難以磨滅的傷痕。
12:01
And as part of my job,
242
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2588
我工作的一部分，
12:03
this weird podcast that I have,
243
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1682
是主持我奇怪的播客，
12:05
I sometimes talk to people
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1248
我有時候會和人們談到，
12:06
about the worst thing
that's ever happened to them.
that's ever happened to them.
245
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2984
在他們身上發生過最糟的事情。
12:09
And sometimes, that's the loss
of someone they love,
of someone they love,
246
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3031
可能是失去他們所愛的人，
12:12
sometimes days ago or weeks ago,
years ago, even decades ago.
years ago, even decades ago.
247
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4690
可能發生在幾天前、幾周前、
幾年前，甚至幾十年前。
幾年前，甚至幾十年前。
12:18
And these people that I interview,
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但是我訪問過的那些人，
12:20
they haven't closed themselves
around this loss
around this loss
249
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2308
他們並沒有深陷在傷痛中，
12:23
and made it the center of their lives.
250
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2350
沒有讓傷痛變成生活的重心。
12:25
They've lived, their worlds
have kept spinning.
have kept spinning.
251
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4301
他們一樣過活，
就算傷痛還一直跟著他們。
就算傷痛還一直跟著他們。
12:31
But they're talking to me,
a total stranger,
a total stranger,
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3142
但他們對我這樣一個陌生人，
12:34
about the person they love who has died,
253
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1935
談論他們逝去的所愛之人，
12:36
because these are the experiences
254
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3140
因為這些都是生活的經歷，
12:39
that mark us and make us
just as much as the joyful ones.
just as much as the joyful ones.
255
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5087
就像快樂的經歷一樣，
都在塑造我們，
都在塑造我們，
12:45
And just as permanently.
256
753355
1857
留下的痕跡都是永久的。
在你收到最後一封慰問信，
或親友送來最後一份安慰的菜餚後，
或親友送來最後一份安慰的菜餚後，
12:48
Long after you get your last sympathy card
257
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2571
12:51
or your last hot dish.
258
759490
1467
那些痕跡會永遠跟著你。
12:53
Like, we don't look
at the people around us
at the people around us
259
761546
2031
身邊的人在享受
生活的快樂和驚喜時，
生活的快樂和驚喜時，
12:55
experiencing life's joys and wonders
and tell them to "move on," do we?
and tell them to "move on," do we?
260
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4499
我們不會告訴他們：
「你要走下去。」不是嗎？
「你要走下去。」不是嗎？
13:00
We don't send a card that's like,
"Congratulations on your beautiful baby,"
"Congratulations on your beautiful baby,"
261
768124
3556
我們寄過賀卡，慶祝完別人生小孩，
13:03
and then, five years later, think like,
"Another birthday party? Get over it."
"Another birthday party? Get over it."
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3691
不會在五年後小孩要慶生時，想道：
「又要生日趴，該走下去了吧！」
「又要生日趴，該走下去了吧！」
13:07
(Laughter)
263
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1666
（笑聲）
13:09
Yeah, we get it, he's five.
264
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1659
我們知道他 5 歲了，夠了吧！
13:10
(Laughter)
265
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1428
（笑聲）
13:12
Wow.
266
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1174
哇。
13:13
(Laughter)
267
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1150
（笑聲）
13:16
But grief is kind of one of those things,
268
784148
2016
但悲痛和這些情緒有點類似，
13:18
like, falling in love or having a baby
or watching "The Wire" on HBO,
or watching "The Wire" on HBO,
269
786188
3779
像是愛上某人、生小孩，
或看 HBO 的《 火線重案組 》，
或看 HBO 的《 火線重案組 》，
13:21
where you don't get it
until you get it, until you do it.
until you get it, until you do it.
270
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4082
除非自己去經歷，你是無法體會的。
13:27
And once you do it,
once it's your love or your baby,
once it's your love or your baby,
271
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5303
但只要你經歷過了，
只要你愛了、生了小孩，
只要你愛了、生了小孩，
13:32
once it's your grief
and your front row at the funeral,
and your front row at the funeral,
272
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5190
只要是你的悲痛，
是你失去所愛的人時，
是你失去所愛的人時，
13:37
you get it.
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1150
你就能體會。
13:39
You understand what you're experiencing
is not a moment in time,
is not a moment in time,
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你會了解你經歷的
不只是事情發生的那一刻，
不只是事情發生的那一刻，
13:43
it's not a bone that will reset,
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不像脫臼的骨頭可以歸位，
13:45
but that you've been touched
by something chronic.
by something chronic.
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而像是染上了一種痼疾，
永遠無法痊癒。
13:48
Something incurable.
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13:50
It's not fatal, but sometimes
grief feels like it could be.
grief feels like it could be.
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悲痛不會致命，
但還是會讓我們感覺快要死掉。
但還是會讓我們感覺快要死掉。
13:55
And if we can't prevent it in one another,
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如果我們無法互相免除這種痛苦，
13:58
what can we do?
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那我們能做甚麼？
14:02
What can we do other than try
to remind one another
to remind one another
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除了嘗試互相提醒，
14:06
that some things can't be fixed,
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有些事情無法補救，
14:10
and not all wounds are meant to heal?
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也不是每個傷口都應當癒合。
14:14
We need each other to remember,
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我們都需要記得，
14:17
to help each other remember,
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也幫助別人記得，
14:19
that grief is this multitasking emotion.
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悲痛是一種多工情緒。
14:22
That you can and will be sad, and happy;
you'll be grieving, and able to love
you'll be grieving, and able to love
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傷心的同時，也有快樂；
在哀慟時，你還能夠去愛，
在哀慟時，你還能夠去愛，
14:28
in the same year or week, the same breath.
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這可能在同年、同一周，
甚至同一瞬間內發生。
甚至同一瞬間內發生。
14:32
We need to remember that a grieving person
is going to laugh again and smile again.
is going to laugh again and smile again.
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我們必須記得，
一個哀傷的人會再度展開笑顏，
一個哀傷的人會再度展開笑顏，
14:39
If they're lucky,
they'll even find love again.
they'll even find love again.
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如果夠幸運的話，
甚至可以再次遇見愛情。
甚至可以再次遇見愛情。
14:43
But yes, absolutely,
they're going to move forward.
they're going to move forward.
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是的，他們會繼續向前，
14:48
But that doesn't mean
that they've moved on.
that they've moved on.
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但不代表他們「走出」了傷痛。
14:52
Thank you.
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謝謝。
14:53
(Applause)
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（掌聲）
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Nora McInerny - Author, podcast hostNora McInerny makes a living talking to people about life's hardest moments.
Why you should listen
Nora McInerny speaks from experience and empathy, having lost her second baby, her father and her husband over the course of six weeks at age 31. She is the best-selling author of the memoir It’s Okay To Laugh, Crying Is Cool Too, the host of the award-winning podcast "Terrible, Thanks for Asking" and the founder of the nonprofit Still Kickin. She contributes words to Elle, Cosmopolitan, Buzzfeed, Time, Slate and Vox, where she's often tapped for her essays highlighting the emotional landscape and humor in complex topics, like the financial impacts of healthcare and grief in a digital age.
McInerny is a master storyteller known for her dedication to bringing heart and levity to the difficult and uncomfortable conversations most of us try to avoid, and also for being very tall. She was voted "Most Humorous" by the Annunciation Catholic School Class of 1998.
Nora McInerny | Speaker | TED.com