TEDGlobalLondon
Jon Ronson: When online shaming goes too far
Jon Ronson: Hvad sker der når online 'udskamning' ryger ud af kontrol
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I lang tid hyldede Jon Ronson Twitter som mediet, der gav en stemme til de der før havde manglet én... Det sociale medie gav os alle chancen for at råbe op og svare igen på verdens uretfærdigheder. Men et sted langs vejen tog tingene en drejning. I dette passionerede og velformulerede foredrag, forklarer Ronson hvordan vi alt for ofte ender med at opføre os som et glammende kobbel jagthunde – og at det er på tide at tage vores ageren online op til genovervejelse.
Jon Ronson - Writer, filmmaker
Jon Ronson is a writer and documentary filmmaker who dips into every flavor of madness, extremism and obsession. Full bio
Jon Ronson is a writer and documentary filmmaker who dips into every flavor of madness, extremism and obsession. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:12
In the early days of Twitter,
it was like a place of radical de-shaming.
it was like a place of radical de-shaming.
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I den første tid var Twitter et sted
fyldt med en slags radikal skamløshed.
fyldt med en slags radikal skamløshed.
00:17
People would admit
shameful secrets about themselves,
shameful secrets about themselves,
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Folk indrømmede skamfulde
hemmeligheder om sig selv,
hemmeligheder om sig selv,
00:20
and other people would say,
"Oh my God, I'm exactly the same."
"Oh my God, I'm exactly the same."
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og andre ville sig,
"Gud, sådan er jeg også!"
"Gud, sådan er jeg også!"
00:24
Voiceless people realized
that they had a voice,
that they had a voice,
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Folk uden en stemme opdagede
at de faktisk havde en stemme,
at de faktisk havde en stemme,
00:27
and it was powerful and eloquent.
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og at den var kraftfuld og velformuleret.
00:30
If a newspaper ran some racist
or homophobic column,
or homophobic column,
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Hvis en avis trykte en racistisk
eller homofobisk klumme,
eller homofobisk klumme,
00:35
we realized we could do
something about it.
something about it.
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opdagede vi, at vi faktisk
kunne gøre ved det.
kunne gøre ved det.
00:37
We could get them.
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Vi kunne få ram på dem.
00:39
We could hit them with a weapon
that we understood but they didn't --
that we understood but they didn't --
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Vi kunne ramme dem med et våben
som vi forstod, men de ikke gjorde --
som vi forstod, men de ikke gjorde --
00:42
a social media shaming.
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udskamning på de sociale medier.
00:45
Advertisers would withdraw
their advertising.
their advertising.
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Annoncører trak deres
annoncer fra avisen.
annoncer fra avisen.
00:48
When powerful people
misused their privilege,
misused their privilege,
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Når magtfulde mennesker
misbrugte deres privilegier,
misbrugte deres privilegier,
00:51
we were going to get them.
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kunne vi få ram på dem.
00:54
This was like the
democratization of justice.
democratization of justice.
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Det var som en slags
demokratisering af domstolene.
demokratisering af domstolene.
00:57
Hierarchies were being leveled out.
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Hierakierne blev gjort fladere.
00:59
We were going to do things better.
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Vi ville gøre tingene bedre.
01:02
Soon after that, a disgraced
pop science writer called Jonah Lehrer --
pop science writer called Jonah Lehrer --
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Ikke så lang tid efter, fik en vanæret
populærvidenskabelig forfatter, Jonah Lehrer --
populærvidenskabelig forfatter, Jonah Lehrer --
01:06
he'd been caught plagiarizing
and faking quotes,
and faking quotes,
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han var blevet fanget i at plagiere
og falsificere citater,
og falsificere citater,
01:10
and he was drenched in shame
and regret, he told me.
and regret, he told me.
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og han var opfyldt af skam
og fortrydelse, som han fortalte mig.
og fortrydelse, som han fortalte mig.
01:13
And he had the opportunity
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Han fik muligheden for
01:15
to publicly apologize
at a foundation lunch.
at a foundation lunch.
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at undskylde offentligt
ved et fonds-arrangement.
ved et fonds-arrangement.
01:19
This was going to be the most
important speech of his life.
important speech of his life.
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Det her ville være den
vigtigste tale i hele hans liv.
vigtigste tale i hele hans liv.
01:22
Maybe it would win him some salvation.
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Måske kunne den vinde ham tilgivelse.
01:25
He knew before he arrived
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Han vidste før han ankom
01:26
that the foundation was going to be
live-streaming his event,
live-streaming his event,
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at fonden ville live-streame arrangementet,
01:29
but what he didn't know
until he turned up,
until he turned up,
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men hvad han ikke vidste
før han ankom var,
før han ankom var,
01:31
was that they'd erected a giant screen
Twitter feed right next to his head.
Twitter feed right next to his head.
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at de havde opstillet en kæmpe Twitter
feed lige ved siden af hans hoved.
feed lige ved siden af hans hoved.
01:36
(Laughter)
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(Latter)
01:38
Another one in a monitor screen
in his eye line.
in his eye line.
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Og endnu en på en skærm
som han kunne se.
som han kunne se.
01:40
I don't think the foundation did this
because they were monstrous.
because they were monstrous.
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Jeg tror ikke at fonden gjorde det
fordi de var uhyrlige.
fordi de var uhyrlige.
01:44
I think they were clueless:
I think this was a unique moment
I think this was a unique moment
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Jeg tror de var uvidende:
jeg tror dette var et unikt øjeblik
jeg tror dette var et unikt øjeblik
01:47
when the beautiful naivety of Twitter
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hvor Twitters smukke naivitet
01:49
was hitting the increasingly
horrific reality.
horrific reality.
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kolliderede med den mere og mere
rædselsvækkende virkelighed.
rædselsvækkende virkelighed.
01:53
And here were some of the Tweets
that were cascading into his eye line,
that were cascading into his eye line,
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Og her er nogle af de Tweets der
strømmede ind i hans synsfelt
strømmede ind i hans synsfelt
01:57
as he was trying to apologize:
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mens han forsøgte at undskylde:
01:58
"Jonah Lehrer, boring us
into forgiving him."
into forgiving him."
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"Jonah Lehrer, forsøger at være
kedelig nok til at vi tilgiver ham."
kedelig nok til at vi tilgiver ham."
02:02
(Laughter)
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(Latter)
02:03
And, "Jonah Lehrer has not proven
that he is capable of feeling shame."
that he is capable of feeling shame."
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Og, "Jonah Lehrer har ikke bevist
at han er i stand til at føle skam."
at han er i stand til at føle skam."
02:08
That one must have been written
by the best psychiatrist ever,
by the best psychiatrist ever,
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Dén der må være skrevet af
verdens bedste psykiater,
verdens bedste psykiater,
02:12
to know that about such
a tiny figure behind a lectern.
a tiny figure behind a lectern.
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som kan se det, på så lille en
figur bag en talerstol.
figur bag en talerstol.
02:16
And, "Jonah Lehrer is just
a frigging sociopath."
a frigging sociopath."
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Og, "Jonah Lehrer er bare
en skide sociopat."
en skide sociopat."
02:19
That last word is a very human thing
to do, to dehumanize the people we hurt.
to do, to dehumanize the people we hurt.
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Det der sidste ord er en meget menneskelig
ting at gøre, at dehumanisere dem vi gør ondt.
ting at gøre, at dehumanisere dem vi gør ondt.
02:25
It's because we want to destroy people
but not feel bad about it.
but not feel bad about it.
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Det er fordi vi har lyst til at ødelægge
folk, uden at få dårlig samvittighed.
folk, uden at få dårlig samvittighed.
02:30
Imagine if this was an actual court,
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Forestil jer hvis dette her var en
rigtig domstol,
rigtig domstol,
02:32
and the accused was in the dark,
begging for another chance,
begging for another chance,
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og den anklagede stod i mørket og
tiggede for en chance til,
tiggede for en chance til,
02:35
and the jury was yelling out,
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mens juryen sad og råbte,
02:37
"Bored! Sociopath!"
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"Kedeligt! Sociopat!"
02:40
(Laughter)
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(Latter)
02:41
You know, when we watch
courtroom dramas, we tend to identify
courtroom dramas, we tend to identify
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Det er sjovt, for når vi ser
film og serier om retssager,
film og serier om retssager,
02:44
with the kindhearted defense attorney,
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så plejer vi at identificere os med
den godhjertede forsvarsadvokat,
den godhjertede forsvarsadvokat,
02:47
but give us the power,
and we become like hanging judges.
and we become like hanging judges.
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men giv os magten, og vi bliver til
den mest blodtørstige art dommere.
den mest blodtørstige art dommere.
02:51
Power shifts fast.
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Magten flytter sig hurtigt.
02:54
We were getting Jonah because he was
perceived to have misused his privilege,
perceived to have misused his privilege,
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Vi fik ram på Jonah fordi vi så ham som
én der havde misbrugt sine privilegier,
én der havde misbrugt sine privilegier,
02:58
but Jonah was on the floor then,
and we were still kicking,
and we were still kicking,
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men på det her tidspunkt lå Jonah
ned, og vi blev ved med at sparke,
ned, og vi blev ved med at sparke,
03:02
and congratulating ourselves
for punching up.
for punching up.
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mens vi gratulerede os selv
for at slå ham til plukfisk.
for at slå ham til plukfisk.
03:05
And it began to feel weird and empty
when there wasn't a powerful person
when there wasn't a powerful person
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Og det begyndte at føles mærkeligt tomt
når der ikke var et magtfuldt menneske
når der ikke var et magtfuldt menneske
03:09
who had misused their privilege
that we could get.
that we could get.
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som havde misbrugt deres privilegier,
som vi kunne få ram på.
som vi kunne få ram på.
03:13
A day without a shaming
began to feel like a day
began to feel like a day
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En dag uden en god udskamning
begyndte at føles som en dag
begyndte at føles som en dag
03:16
picking fingernails and treading water.
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hvor vi bare trillede tommelfingre
og trådte vande.
og trådte vande.
03:21
Let me tell you a story.
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Jeg vil fortælle jer en historie.
03:23
It's about a woman called Justine Sacco.
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Den handler om en kvinde
ved navn Justine Sacco.
ved navn Justine Sacco.
03:26
She was a PR woman from New York
with 170 Twitter followers,
with 170 Twitter followers,
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Hun var en PR medarbejder fra New York
med 170 følgere på Twitter,
med 170 følgere på Twitter,
03:30
and she'd Tweet little
acerbic jokes to them,
acerbic jokes to them,
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og hun Tweetede små
sarkastiske jokes til dem,
sarkastiske jokes til dem,
03:33
like this one on a plane
from New York to London:
from New York to London:
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som denne her fra et fly
fra New York til London:
fra New York til London:
03:37
[Weird German Dude: You're in first class.
It's 2014. Get some deodorant."
It's 2014. Get some deodorant."
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[Mærkelige tysker: Du er på første klasse.
Det er 2014. Køb noget deodorant."
Det er 2014. Køb noget deodorant."
03:40
-Inner monologue as inhale BO.
Thank god for pharmaceuticals.]
Thank god for pharmaceuticals.]
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- Indre monolog mens jeg inhalerer stanken.
Takker Gud for medicinalindustrien.]
Takker Gud for medicinalindustrien.]
03:44
So Justine chuckled to herself,
and pressed send, and got no replies,
and pressed send, and got no replies,
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Så klukkede Justine lidt for sig selv,
trykkede 'send', og fik ingen svar,
trykkede 'send', og fik ingen svar,
03:47
and felt that sad feeling that we all feel
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og mærkede den tristhed vi alle mærker
03:49
when the Internet doesn't
congratulate us for being funny.
congratulate us for being funny.
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når internettet ikke komplimenterer
os for at være morsomme.
os for at være morsomme.
03:53
(Laughter)
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(Latter)
03:54
Black silence when the Internet
doesn't talk back.
doesn't talk back.
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Mørk stilhed, når internettet
ikke svarer os.
ikke svarer os.
03:58
And then she got to Heathrow,
and she had a little time to spare
and she had a little time to spare
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Og da hun kom til Heathrow,
og havde lidt tid tilovers
og havde lidt tid tilovers
04:01
before her final leg, so she thought up
another funny little acerbic joke:
another funny little acerbic joke:
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før den sidste del af rejsen, udtænkte
hun endnu en lille sarkastisk joke:
hun endnu en lille sarkastisk joke:
04:06
[Going to Africa. Hope I don't get AIDS.
Just kidding. I'm white!]
Just kidding. I'm white!]
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[På vej til Afrika. Håber ikke jeg får AIDS.
Det var en joke - jeg er jo hvid!]
Det var en joke - jeg er jo hvid!]
04:10
And she chuckled to herself, pressed send,
got on the plane, got no replies,
got on the plane, got no replies,
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Og hun klukkede for sig selv, trykkede
'send', steg på flyet, fik ingen svar,
'send', steg på flyet, fik ingen svar,
04:16
turned off her phone, fell asleep,
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slukkede sin telefon, faldt i søvn,
04:19
woke up 11 hours later,
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vågnede 11 timer senere,
04:21
turned on her phone while the plane
was taxiing on the runway,
was taxiing on the runway,
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tændte sin telefon mens flyet var ved
at køre på plads ved gaten,
at køre på plads ved gaten,
04:24
and straightaway there was
a message from somebody
a message from somebody
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og med det samme var der
en besked fra nogen
en besked fra nogen
04:27
that she hadn't spoken
to since high school,
to since high school,
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som hun ikke havde talt
med siden gymnasiet,
med siden gymnasiet,
04:29
that said, "I am so sorry
to see what's happening to you."
to see what's happening to you."
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hvor der stod "Jeg er så ked
af at se hvad der er ved at ske dig."
af at se hvad der er ved at ske dig."
04:35
And then another message
from a best friend,
from a best friend,
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Og derefter endnu en besked
fra en af hendes bedste venner;
fra en af hendes bedste venner;
04:37
"You need to call me right now.
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"Ring til mig med det samme.
04:39
You are the worldwide number one
trending topic on Twitter."
trending topic on Twitter."
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Du er det mest trendene emne i
hele verden på Twitter lige nu."
hele verden på Twitter lige nu."
04:43
(Laughter)
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(Latter)
04:46
What had happened is that one
of her 170 followers had sent the Tweet
of her 170 followers had sent the Tweet
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Hvad der var sket var, at en af hendes
170 følgere havde sendt Tweetet
170 følgere havde sendt Tweetet
04:49
to a Gawker journalist, and he
retweeted it to his 15,000 followers:
retweeted it to his 15,000 followers:
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til en Gawker journalist, og han
retweetede det til sine 15,000 følgere:
retweetede det til sine 15,000 følgere:
04:55
[And now, a funny holiday joke
from IAC's PR boss]
from IAC's PR boss]
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[Og nu, en sjov joke til juleferien
fra IACs PR chef]
fra IACs PR chef]
04:57
And then it was like a bolt of lightning.
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Det var som et lynnedslag.
04:59
A few weeks later, I talked
to the Gawker journalist.
to the Gawker journalist.
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Et par uger senere snakkede
jeg med Gawker journalisten.
jeg med Gawker journalisten.
05:02
I emailed him and asked him how it felt,
and he said, "It felt delicious."
and he said, "It felt delicious."
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Jeg emailede ham og spurgte hvordan det
føltes, og han skrev "det var herligt."
føltes, og han skrev "det var herligt."
05:06
And then he said,
"But I'm sure she's fine."
"But I'm sure she's fine."
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Og så sagde han,
"Men jeg er sikker på hun har det fint."
"Men jeg er sikker på hun har det fint."
05:09
But she wasn't fine,
because while she slept,
because while she slept,
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Men hun havde det ikke fint,
for mens hun sov,
for mens hun sov,
05:12
Twitter took control of her life
and dismantled it piece by piece.
and dismantled it piece by piece.
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havde Twitter overtaget hendes liv
og skilt det ad, ét stykke ad gangen.
og skilt det ad, ét stykke ad gangen.
05:19
First there were the philanthropists:
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Først kom filantroperne:
05:21
[If @JustineSacco's unfortunate
words ... bother you,
words ... bother you,
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[Hvis @JustineSacco's uheldige
ord ... generer dig,
ord ... generer dig,
05:24
join me in supporting
@CARE's work in Africa.]
@CARE's work in Africa.]
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så gør som jeg og støt
@CARE's arbejde i Afrika.]
@CARE's arbejde i Afrika.]
05:26
[In light of ... disgusting,
racist tweet, I'm donating to @care today]
racist tweet, I'm donating to @care today]
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[På grund af ... frastødende, racistiske
tweet, donerer jeg til @care idag]
tweet, donerer jeg til @care idag]
05:30
Then came the beyond horrified:
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Så kom de stærkt oprørte:
05:31
[... no words for that horribly disgusting
racist as fuck tweet from Justine Sacco.
racist as fuck tweet from Justine Sacco.
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[... har ingen ord for Justine Saccos
forfærdelige, fucking racistiske tweet.
forfærdelige, fucking racistiske tweet.
05:35
I am beyond horrified.]
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Jeg er stærkt oprørt.]
05:36
Was anybody on Twitter
that night? A few of you.
that night? A few of you.
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Var nogle af jer på Twitter den aften?
Et par stykker.
Et par stykker.
05:39
Did Justine's joke overwhelm
your Twitter feed the way it did mine?
your Twitter feed the way it did mine?
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Overvældede Justine's joke jeres
Twitter feeds ligesom den gjorde med min?
Twitter feeds ligesom den gjorde med min?
05:42
It did mine, and I thought
what everybody thought that night,
what everybody thought that night,
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Det gjorde den med min, og jeg tænkte,
som alle andre den aften,
som alle andre den aften,
05:45
which was, "Wow, somebody's screwed!
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"Wow, der er godt nok en
der er på røven!
der er på røven!
05:48
Somebody's life is about to get terrible!"
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En eller andens liv er ved at blive
helt forfærdeligt!"
helt forfærdeligt!"
05:50
And I sat up in my bed,
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Og jeg satte mig op i sengen,
05:52
and I put the pillow behind my head,
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og puttede puden bag hovedet,
05:55
and then I thought, I'm not entirely sure
that joke was intended to be racist.
that joke was intended to be racist.
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og så tænkte jeg, jeg er ikke helt sikker
på, om den joke egentlig var ment racistiskt
på, om den joke egentlig var ment racistiskt
06:00
Maybe instead of gleefully
flaunting her privilege,
flaunting her privilege,
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Måske, istedet for triumferende
at prale af sine privilegier,
at prale af sine privilegier,
06:03
she was mocking the gleeful
flaunting of privilege.
flaunting of privilege.
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hånede hun den triumferende
pral med privilegier.
pral med privilegier.
06:05
There's a comedy tradition of this,
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Det er en tradition indenfor comedy,
06:07
like South Park or Colbert
or Randy Newman.
or Randy Newman.
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som i South Park eller Colbert
eller Randy Newman.
eller Randy Newman.
06:11
Maybe Justine Sacco's crime was not being
as good at it as Randy Newman.
as good at it as Randy Newman.
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Måske var Justine Sacco's fejl simpelthen
ikke at være så god til det som Randy Newman.
ikke at være så god til det som Randy Newman.
06:16
In fact, when I met Justine
a couple of weeks later in a bar,
a couple of weeks later in a bar,
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I virkeligheden, da jeg mødte Justine
et par uger senere på en bar,
et par uger senere på en bar,
06:19
she was just crushed,
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var hun helt ødelagt,
06:21
and I asked her to explain the joke,
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369501
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og jeg bad hende om at forklare joken,
06:23
and she said, "Living in America
puts us in a bit of a bubble
puts us in a bit of a bubble
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og hun sagde, "Når vi bor i USA er
vi lidt i en slags bobbel, hvor
vi lidt i en slags bobbel, hvor
06:27
when it comes to what is going on
in the Third World.
in the Third World.
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vi ikke helt ser hvad der sker
i den Tredje Verden.
i den Tredje Verden.
06:29
I was making of fun of that bubble."
119
377651
2197
Jeg prøvede at lave grin med den bobbel."
06:32
You know, another woman on Twitter that
night, a New Statesman writer Helen Lewis,
night, a New Statesman writer Helen Lewis,
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380848
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En anden kvinde var også på Twitter den
aften, Helen Lewis som skriver for New Statesman,
aften, Helen Lewis som skriver for New Statesman,
06:36
she reviewed my book on public shaming
and wrote that she Tweeted that night,
and wrote that she Tweeted that night,
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hun anmeldte min bog om offentlig udskamning,
og skrev at hun den aften Tweetede,
og skrev at hun den aften Tweetede,
06:40
"I'm not sure that her joke
was intended to be racist,"
was intended to be racist,"
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"Jeg er ikke sikker på om hendes joke var
ment som racistisk,"
ment som racistisk,"
06:43
and she said straightaway she got
a fury of Tweets saying,
a fury of Tweets saying,
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og sagde at det med det samme haglede ned
over hende med Tweets
over hende med Tweets
06:46
"Well, you're just
a privileged bitch, too."
a privileged bitch, too."
124
394507
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hvor der stod "Du er også
bare endnu en priviligeret kælling"
bare endnu en priviligeret kælling"
06:48
And so to her shame, she wrote,
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Og til sin skam, skrev hun,
06:51
she shut up and watched
as Justine's life got torn apart.
as Justine's life got torn apart.
126
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tiede hun, og så stille til, mens Justine's
liv blev flået i småstumper.
liv blev flået i småstumper.
06:57
It started to get darker:
127
405697
1809
Det begyndte at blive mere ubehageligt:
06:59
[Everyone go report
this cunt @JustineSacco]
this cunt @JustineSacco]
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[Man burde anmelde den luder @JustineSacco]
07:02
Then came the calls for her to be fired.
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410464
2586
Så kom opfordringerne
til at få hende fyret.
til at få hende fyret.
07:05
[Good luck with the job hunt
in the new year. #GettingFired]
in the new year. #GettingFired]
130
413074
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[Held og lykke med jobjagten i
det nye år. #BliverFyret]
det nye år. #BliverFyret]
07:07
Thousands of people around the world
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1735
Tusinder af mennesker på hele kloden
07:09
decided it was their duty
to get her fired.
to get her fired.
132
417729
3527
besluttede at det var deres pligt
at få hende fyret.
at få hende fyret.
07:13
[@JustineSacco last tweet
of your career. #SorryNotSorry
of your career. #SorryNotSorry
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[@JustineSacco din karrieres sidste
tweet. #Fortjent]
tweet. #Fortjent]
07:17
Corporations got involved,
hoping to sell their products
hoping to sell their products
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Virksomheder involverede sig,
og forsøgte at sælge deres produkter
og forsøgte at sælge deres produkter
07:20
on the back of Justine's annihilation:
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2357
på baggrund af Justine's udslettelse:
07:22
[Next time you plan to tweet something
stupid before you take off,
stupid before you take off,
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3217
[Næste gang du vil tweete
noget dumt før du flyver,
noget dumt før du flyver,
07:25
make sure you are getting
on a @Gogo flight!]
on a @Gogo flight!]
137
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så vær sikker på du stiger
på et @Gogo fly!]
på et @Gogo fly!]
07:28
(Laughter)
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436158
2406
(Latter)
07:30
A lot of companies were making
good money that night.
good money that night.
139
438588
2606
En masse virksomheder
tjente rigtig godt den aften.
tjente rigtig godt den aften.
07:33
You know, Justine's name was normally
Googled 40 times a month.
Googled 40 times a month.
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3917
Altså, Justine's navn blev normalt
Googlet 40 gange om måneden.
Googlet 40 gange om måneden.
07:37
That month, between December the 20th
and the end of December,
and the end of December,
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445159
3328
Den måned, mellem den 20. December
indtil slutningen af December,
indtil slutningen af December,
07:40
her name was Googled 1,220,000 times.
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4753
blev hendes navn Googlet 1.220.000 gange.
07:45
And one Internet economist told me
that that meant that Google made
that that meant that Google made
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453893
3525
Og en internet-økonom fortalte mig,
at det betød en fortjeneste for Google
at det betød en fortjeneste for Google
07:49
somewhere between 120,000 dollars
and 468,000 dollars
and 468,000 dollars
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457442
5010
på et sted mellem 120.000 dollars
og 468.000 dollars
og 468.000 dollars
07:54
from Justine's annihilation, whereas
those of us doing the actual shaming --
those of us doing the actual shaming --
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462476
4066
på Justines udslettelse, hvorimod de af os
der stod for den egentlige udskamning...
der stod for den egentlige udskamning...
07:58
we got nothing.
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466566
1154
vi fik ingenting.
07:59
(Laughter)
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467744
1000
(Latter)
08:00
We were like unpaid
shaming interns for Google.
shaming interns for Google.
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468768
3450
Vi var som ubetalte
udskamnings-praktikanter hos Google.
udskamnings-praktikanter hos Google.
08:04
(Laughter)
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472242
3287
(Latter)
08:07
And then came the trolls:
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475553
2396
Og så kom troldene:
08:09
[I'm actually kind of hoping
Justine Sacco gets aids? lol]
Justine Sacco gets aids? lol]
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477973
2731
[Jeg håber egentlig at Justine Sacco
faktisk får aids? lol]
faktisk får aids? lol]
08:12
Somebody else on that wrote,
152
480728
1406
En anden skrev,
08:14
"Somebody HIV-positive should rape
this bitch and then we'll find out
this bitch and then we'll find out
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482158
3249
"En eller enden med HIV burde voldtage
kællingen, så kan vi finde ud af
kællingen, så kan vi finde ud af
08:17
if her skin color protects her from AIDS."
154
485431
2079
om hendes hudfarve beskytter hende mod AIDS."
08:19
And that person got a free pass.
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2579
Og den person fik en fribillet.
08:22
Nobody went after that person.
156
490137
2087
Den person var der ikke nogen
der gjorde noget ved.
der gjorde noget ved.
08:24
We were all so excited
about destroying Justine,
about destroying Justine,
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492248
2635
Vi var alle sammen så begejstrede
over at knuse Justine,
over at knuse Justine,
08:26
and our shaming brains
are so simple-minded,
are so simple-minded,
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494907
2627
og vores udskamnings-hjerner
er så ensporede,
er så ensporede,
08:29
that we couldn't also handle
destroying somebody
destroying somebody
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497558
2385
at vi ikke også kunne håndtere
at skulle knuse en eller anden
at skulle knuse en eller anden
08:31
who was inappropriately
destroying Justine.
destroying Justine.
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499967
2937
som angreb Justine på en upassende måde.
08:35
Justine was really uniting
a lot of disparate groups that night,
a lot of disparate groups that night,
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3528
Justine forenede virkelig en del
forskellige grupper den aften,
forskellige grupper den aften,
08:39
from philanthropists to "rape the bitch."
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507247
2936
fra filantroper til "voldtag kællingen."
08:42
[@JustineSacco I hope you get fired!
You demented bitch...
You demented bitch...
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510667
3839
[@JustineSacco jeg håber du bliver fyret!
Tomhjernede kælling... Fortæl endelig
Tomhjernede kælling... Fortæl endelig
hele verden at du vil have
ubeskyttet sex i Afrika.]
ubeskyttet sex i Afrika.]
08:46
Just let the world know you're planning
to ride bare back while in Africa.]
to ride bare back while in Africa.]
164
514530
3588
08:50
Women always have it worse than men.
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518142
2025
Det er altid værre for kvinder end mænd.
08:52
When a man gets shamed, it's,
"I'm going to get you fired."
"I'm going to get you fired."
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520191
3101
Til mænd er det: "Vi får dig fyret."
Når kvinder bliver angrebet, så er det
08:55
When a woman gets shamed, it's,
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523316
1698
08:57
"I'm going to get you fired
and raped and cut out your uterus."
and raped and cut out your uterus."
168
525038
4881
"Jeg får dig fyret og voldtaget
og hakker din livmoder ud."
og hakker din livmoder ud."
09:01
And then Justine's employers got involved:
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529943
2409
Og så blev Justines
arbejdsgiver involveret:
arbejdsgiver involveret:
09:04
[IAC on @JustineSacco tweet: This is an
outrageous, offensive comment.
outrageous, offensive comment.
170
532376
3306
[IAC om @JustineSacco tweet: Dette er en
skændig, krænkende udtalelse.
skændig, krænkende udtalelse.
Ansatte er i øjeblikket utilgængelig
på et internationalt fly.]
på et internationalt fly.]
09:07
Employee in question currently
unreachable on an intl flight.]
unreachable on an intl flight.]
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535706
2974
Og da ændredes vreden til begejstring
09:10
And that's when the anger
turned to excitement:
turned to excitement:
172
538704
2198
[Det eneste jeg ønsker mig til jul er at
se @JustineSacco's ansigt når flyet lander
se @JustineSacco's ansigt når flyet lander
09:12
[All I want for Christmas is to see
@JustineSacco's face when her plane lands
@JustineSacco's face when her plane lands
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540926
3622
og hun checker sin
inbox/voicemail. #fyret]
inbox/voicemail. #fyret]
[Wow, @justinesacco kommer til at
have det værste
have det værste
09:16
and she checks
her inbox/voicemail. #fired]
her inbox/voicemail. #fired]
174
544572
2001
tænde-telefonen-øjeblik nogensinde
når hendes fly lander.]
når hendes fly lander.]
09:18
[Oh man, @justinesacco
is going to have the most painful
is going to have the most painful
175
546597
2691
[Snart kan vi se hende @JustineSacco
kællingen blive fyret.
kællingen blive fyret.
09:21
phone-turning-on moment ever
when her plane lands.]
when her plane lands.]
176
549312
2399
LIVE. Før hun selv VED
at hun bliver fyret.]
at hun bliver fyret.]
09:23
[We are about to watch this @JustineSacco
bitch get fired. In REAL time.
bitch get fired. In REAL time.
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551735
3416
Det vi havde her, var
en skøn fortællings-struktur.
en skøn fortællings-struktur.
09:27
Before she even KNOWS
she's getting fired.]
she's getting fired.]
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555175
2024
Vi vidste noget som Justine ikke gjorde.
09:29
What we had was
a delightful narrative arc.
a delightful narrative arc.
179
557223
2013
Kan I forestille jer noget, mindre
retfærdigt end det?
retfærdigt end det?
09:31
We knew something that Justine didn't.
180
559260
1825
09:33
Can you think of anything
less judicial than this?
less judicial than this?
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561109
2341
Justine sov ombord på et fly,
ude af stand til at give en forklaring,
ude af stand til at give en forklaring,
09:35
Justine was asleep on a plane
and unable to explain herself,
and unable to explain herself,
182
563474
2877
og hendes manglende mulighed
var en kæmpe del af morskaben.
var en kæmpe del af morskaben.
09:38
and her inability was
a huge part of the hilarity.
a huge part of the hilarity.
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566375
3563
Den aften på Twitter var vi som
treårige der kravler mod en pistol.
treårige der kravler mod en pistol.
09:42
On Twitter that night, we were
like toddlers crawling towards a gun.
like toddlers crawling towards a gun.
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4388
En eller anden fandt ud af præcis hvilket
fly hun var på, så de linkede
fly hun var på, så de linkede
09:47
Somebody worked out exactly
which plane she was on, so they linked
which plane she was on, so they linked
185
575660
3134
09:50
to a flight tracker website.
186
578818
2099
til en flight tracker hjemmeside.
09:52
[British Airways Flight 43
On-time - arrives in 1 hour 34 minutes]
On-time - arrives in 1 hour 34 minutes]
187
580941
3112
[British Airways Fly 43
Til Tiden - ankommer om 1t 34min]
Til Tiden - ankommer om 1t 34min]
Et hashtag begyndte at trende verden rundt:
09:56
A hashtag began trending worldwide:
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584077
2455
#erJustineLandetEndnu?
09:58
# hasJustineLandedYet?
189
586556
2602
10:01
[It is kinda wild
to see someone self-destruct
to see someone self-destruct
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589182
2166
[det er lidt vildt at
se nogen selvdestruere
se nogen selvdestruere
10:03
without them even being aware of it.
#hasJustineLandedYet]
#hasJustineLandedYet]
191
591372
2723
uden de overhovedet er klar over det.
#erJustineLandetEndnu]
#erJustineLandetEndnu]
[Seriøst. Jeg vil egentlig bare hjem i
seng, men alle på baren
seng, men alle på baren
10:06
[Seriously. I just want to go home
to go to bed, but everyone at the bar
to go to bed, but everyone at the bar
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594119
3394
er SUPER vilde med #erJustineLandetEndnu.
Kan ikke se væk. Kan ikke tage afsted.]
Kan ikke se væk. Kan ikke tage afsted.]
10:09
is SO into #HasJustineLandedYet.
Can't look away. Can't leave.]
Can't look away. Can't leave.]
193
597537
2960
[#erJustineLandetEndnu er muligvis det
bedste der er sket for min fredag aften.]
bedste der er sket for min fredag aften.]
10:12
[#HasJustineLandedYet may be the best
thing to happen to my Friday night.]
thing to happen to my Friday night.]
194
600521
3486
[Er der ikke nogen i Cape Town der kan
tage til lufthavnen og tweete hendes ankomst?
tage til lufthavnen og tweete hendes ankomst?
Kom nu, twitter! Gerne billeder.]
10:16
[Is no one in Cape Town going
to the airport to tweet her arrival?
to the airport to tweet her arrival?
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604031
3103
Og ved I hvad? Det var der såmænd.
10:19
Come on, twitter! I'd like pictures]
196
607158
1719
[@JustineSacco ER nu landet
i Cape Town International.
i Cape Town International.
10:20
And guess what? Yes there was.
197
608901
1516
10:22
[@JustineSacco HAS in fact landed
at Cape Town international.
at Cape Town international.
198
610441
2866
Og hvis I gerne vil vide hvordan man ser
ud når man lige har opdaget
ud når man lige har opdaget
at man er blevet revet i småstykker pga
en misforstået venstreorienteret joke,
en misforstået venstreorienteret joke,
10:25
And if you want to know
what it looks like to discover
what it looks like to discover
199
613331
2532
10:27
that you've just been torn to shreds
because of a misconstrued liberal joke,
because of a misconstrued liberal joke,
200
615887
3575
ikke af trolde, men af venlige
mennesker som dig og mig,
mennesker som dig og mig,
10:31
not by trolls, but by nice people like us,
201
619486
2008
så ser det sådan her ud:
10:33
this is what it looks like:
202
621518
1546
10:35
[... She's decided to wear
sunnies as a disguise.]
sunnies as a disguise.]
203
623088
2654
[... Hun har forklædt sig med solbriller]
10:37
So why did we do it?
204
625766
1453
Så hvad fik os til at gøre sådan?
10:39
I think some people were genuinely upset,
205
627933
2901
Jeg tror nogle virkeligt var berørte,
men for mange andre, tror jeg,
10:42
but I think for other people,
206
630858
1428
10:44
it's because Twitter is basically
a mutual approval machine.
a mutual approval machine.
207
632310
3023
er Twitter dybest set en gensidig
skulderklapnings-maskine.
skulderklapnings-maskine.
10:47
We surround ourselves with people
who feel the same way we do,
who feel the same way we do,
208
635357
2919
Vi omgiver os med mennesker
med de samme holdninger som os,
med de samme holdninger som os,
og vi bifalder hinandens meninger,
10:50
and we approve each other,
209
638300
1263
10:51
and that's a really good feeling.
210
639587
1651
og det er en rigtig dejlig følelse.
Og hvis nogen kommer i vejen for det,
så jager vi dem på flugt.
så jager vi dem på flugt.
10:53
And if somebody gets in the way,
we screen them out.
we screen them out.
211
641262
2648
Og ved I, hvad det er det
er det modsatte af?
er det modsatte af?
10:55
And do you know what
that's the opposite of?
that's the opposite of?
212
643934
2087
Det er det modsatte af demokrati.
10:58
It's the opposite of democracy.
213
646045
1741
Vi ville gerne vise, at vi bekymrede
os om folk der døde af AIDS i Afrika.
os om folk der døde af AIDS i Afrika.
11:00
We wanted to show that we cared
about people dying of AIDS in Africa.
about people dying of AIDS in Africa.
214
648336
3997
Vores ønske om at blive set som
medfølende var det, der ledte os til
medfølende var det, der ledte os til
11:04
Our desire to be seen to be compassionate
is what led us to commit
is what led us to commit
215
652357
4007
denne dybt ufølsomme handling.
11:08
this profoundly un-compassionate act.
216
656388
3045
Som Meghan O'Gieblyn skrev i
The Boston Review,
The Boston Review,
11:11
As Meghan O'Gieblyn wrote
in the Boston Review,
in the Boston Review,
217
659887
2530
11:14
"This isn't social justice.
It's a cathartic alternative."
It's a cathartic alternative."
218
662441
4411
"Dette er ikke social retfærdighed,
det er et velbehageligt alternativ."
det er et velbehageligt alternativ."
De sidste tre år
11:19
For the past three years,
219
667686
1199
har jeg rejst verden rundt for at møde
mennesker som Justine Sacco --
mennesker som Justine Sacco --
11:20
I've been going around the world
meeting people like Justine Sacco --
meeting people like Justine Sacco --
220
668909
3278
og tro mig, der er mange
som Justine Sacco.
som Justine Sacco.
11:24
and believe me, there's a lot
of people like Justine Sacco.
of people like Justine Sacco.
221
672211
2784
Der kommer flere hver dag.
11:27
There's more every day.
222
675019
1706
11:28
And we want to think they're fine,
but they're not fine.
but they're not fine.
223
676749
3292
Og vi vil gerne tro på at de har det fint,
men det har de altså ikke.
men det har de altså ikke.
De mennesker jeg mødte var lemlæstede.
11:32
The people I met were mangled.
224
680065
2135
De fortalte mig om depression,
11:34
They talked to me about depression,
225
682224
1841
om angst og søvnløshed,
om selvmordstanker.
om selvmordstanker.
11:36
and anxiety and insomnia
and suicidal thoughts.
and suicidal thoughts.
226
684089
3916
En kvinde jeg snakkede med,
der også havde fortalt en uheldig joke,
der også havde fortalt en uheldig joke,
11:40
One woman I talked to,
who also told a joke that landed badly,
who also told a joke that landed badly,
227
688029
4739
Hun holdt sig hjemme i halvandet år.
11:44
she stayed home for a year and a half.
228
692792
2214
Før det havde hun arbejdet med
voksne med indlæringsvanskeligheder,
voksne med indlæringsvanskeligheder,
11:47
Before that, she worked with adults
with learning difficulties,
with learning difficulties,
229
695427
4442
11:51
and was apparently really good at her job.
230
699893
2438
og var vist rigtig god til sit arbejde.
Justine blev fyret, selvfølgelig,
fordi de sociale medier krævede det.
fordi de sociale medier krævede det.
11:55
Justine was fired, of course,
because social media demanded it.
because social media demanded it.
231
703306
3869
Men det var værre end som så.
11:59
But it was worse than that.
232
707607
1744
Hun var ved at miste sig selv.
12:01
She was losing herself.
233
709375
1959
12:03
She was waking up in the middle
of the night, forgetting who she was.
of the night, forgetting who she was.
234
711358
4060
Hun vågnede midt om natten, uden
at kunne huske hvem hun var.
at kunne huske hvem hun var.
Hun blev fået ram på, fordi hun blev set
som en der havde misbrugt sine privilegier.
som en der havde misbrugt sine privilegier.
12:08
She was got because she was perceived
to have misused her privilege.
to have misused her privilege.
235
716079
3956
Og det er selvfølgelig en meget bedre ting
at angribe folk for
at angribe folk for
12:12
And of course, that's a much better thing
to get people for than the things
to get people for than the things
236
720059
3561
end det vi plejede, som for eksempel
at få børn udenfor ægteskabet.
at få børn udenfor ægteskabet.
12:15
we used to get people for,
like having children out of wedlock.
like having children out of wedlock.
237
723644
3160
12:18
But the phrase "misuse of privilege"
is becoming a free pass
is becoming a free pass
238
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Men konceptet "misbrug af privilegier"
er ved at blive en fribillet
er ved at blive en fribillet
12:21
to tear apart pretty much
anybody we choose to.
anybody we choose to.
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til at måtte sønderrive stort set
hvem vi vil.
hvem vi vil.
Udtrykket mister sin betydning,
12:25
It's becoming a devalued term,
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og det får os til at miste
vores evne til empati,
vores evne til empati,
12:27
and it's making us lose
our capacity for empathy
our capacity for empathy
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og evne til at skelne mellem vigtige
og ligegyldige forseelser.
og ligegyldige forseelser.
12:30
and for distinguishing between serious
and unserious transgressions.
and unserious transgressions.
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12:36
Justine had 170 Twitter followers,
and so to make it work,
and so to make it work,
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Justine havde 170 Twitter følgere,
så før det kunne fungere
så før det kunne fungere
12:39
she had to be fictionalized.
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måtte hun fiktionaliseres.
Rygtet spredte sig at hun var datter af
minedrifts-milliardæren Desmond Sacco.
minedrifts-milliardæren Desmond Sacco.
12:41
Word got around that she was the daughter
the mining billionaire Desmond Sacco.
the mining billionaire Desmond Sacco.
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[Lad jer ikke narre af #JustineSacco hendes
far er en sydafrikansk mine-milliardær.
far er en sydafrikansk mine-milliardær.
12:46
[Let us not be fooled by #JustineSacco
her father is a SA mining billionaire.
her father is a SA mining billionaire.
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Hun er ikke ked af det.
Og det er hendes far heller ikke.]
Og det er hendes far heller ikke.]
12:50
She's not sorry.
And neither is her father.]
And neither is her father.]
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Jeg troede faktisk det var sandt,
indtil jeg mødte Justine på en bar, og
spurgte ind til hendes milliardær-far,
spurgte ind til hendes milliardær-far,
12:52
I thought that was true about Justine,
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12:54
until I met her at a bar, and I asked her
about her billionaire father,
about her billionaire father,
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og hun sagde, "Min far sælger tæpper."
12:57
and she said, "My father sells carpets."
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Og jeg tænker tilbage på tiden
i starten med Twitter,
i starten med Twitter,
12:59
And I think back on
the early days of Twitter,
the early days of Twitter,
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da folk indrømmede skamfulde
hemmeligheder om sig selv
hemmeligheder om sig selv
13:01
when people would admit
shameful secrets about themselves,
shameful secrets about themselves,
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og andre sagde,
"Gud, sådan er jeg også."
"Gud, sådan er jeg også."
13:04
and other people would say,
"Oh my God, I'm exactly the same."
"Oh my God, I'm exactly the same."
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I dag er jagten gået ind
på andres skamfulde hemmeligheder.
på andres skamfulde hemmeligheder.
13:07
These days, the hunt is on
for people's shameful secrets.
for people's shameful secrets.
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Du kan leve et godt, etisk liv,
13:11
You can lead a good, ethical life,
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men en dårlig formulering i et Tweet
kan overskygge det hele,
kan overskygge det hele,
13:13
but some bad phraseology in a Tweet
can overwhelm it all,
can overwhelm it all,
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og blive et fingerpeg
om din skjulte indre ondskab.
om din skjulte indre ondskab.
13:18
become a clue to your secret inner evil.
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13:21
Maybe there's two types
of people in the world:
of people in the world:
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Måske er der to
slags mennesker i verden:
slags mennesker i verden:
13:24
those people who favor
humans over ideology,
humans over ideology,
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Dem der sætter
mennesker over ideologi,
mennesker over ideologi,
og dem, som sætter
ideologi over mennesker.
ideologi over mennesker.
13:27
and those people who favor
ideology over humans.
ideology over humans.
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13:31
I favor humans over ideology,
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Jeg sætter mennesker over ideologi,
men lige nu er ideologerne ved at vinde,
13:33
but right now, the ideologues are winning,
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og de er ved at skabe en scene
med kunstigt højspændte dramaer,
med kunstigt højspændte dramaer,
13:36
and they're creating a stage
for constant artificial high dramas
for constant artificial high dramas
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hvor alle enten er
en skinnende helt
en skinnende helt
13:41
where everybody's either
a magnificent hero
a magnificent hero
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eller en kvalmende forbryder,
13:43
or a sickening villain,
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13:45
even though we know that's not true
about our fellow humans.
about our fellow humans.
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selvom vi jo godt ved, at
sådan er vores medmennesker ikke.
sådan er vores medmennesker ikke.
13:48
What's true is that
we are clever and stupid;
we are clever and stupid;
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Sandheden er at vi
er kloge og dumme;
er kloge og dumme;
sandheden er, at vi er gråzoner.
13:52
what's true is that we're grey areas.
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Det fantastiske ved de sociale medier er,
13:55
The great thing about social media
was how it gave a voice
was how it gave a voice
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at de gav en stemme til mennesker,
der ikke plejede at have en,
der ikke plejede at have en,
13:58
to voiceless people,
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13:59
but we're now creating
a surveillance society,
a surveillance society,
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men nu er vi ved at skabe
et overvågningssamfund,
et overvågningssamfund,
hvor den bedste måde at overleve på,
er igen ikke at have nogen stemme.
er igen ikke at have nogen stemme.
14:02
where the smartest way to survive
is to go back to being voiceless.
is to go back to being voiceless.
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Lad os lade være med det.
14:07
Let's not do that.
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14:08
Thank you.
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Mange tak.
14:10
(Applause)
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(Bifald)
Bruno Giussani: Mange tak, Jon.
14:21
Bruno Giussani: Thank you, Jon.
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Jon Ronson: Tak, Bruno.
14:22
Jon Ronson: Thanks, Bruno.
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BG: Bliv lige et øjeblik.
14:24
BG: Don't go away.
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14:26
What strikes me about Justine's story
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Det der slår mig ved Justine's historie
14:28
is also the fact that if you
Google her name today,
Google her name today,
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2433
er også, at hvis man googler
hendes navn i dag,
hendes navn i dag,
14:31
this story covers the first
100 pages of Google results --
100 pages of Google results --
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2747
så dækker denne her historie
de første 100 siders søgeresultater --
de første 100 siders søgeresultater --
14:33
there is nothing else about her.
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2212
der er ikke andet om hende.
I din bog nævner du en anden historie,
14:36
In your book, you mention another story
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2588
14:38
of another victim who actually got
taken on by a reputation management firm,
taken on by a reputation management firm,
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4531
om et andet offer der faktisk hyrede
et firma til at ændre på det her,
et firma til at ændre på det her,
14:43
and by creating blogs and posting nice,
innocuous stories about her love for cats
innocuous stories about her love for cats
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og ved at lave blogs og lægge hyggelige,
harmløse historier ud om hendes katte
harmløse historier ud om hendes katte
14:48
and holidays and stuff,
managed to get the story
managed to get the story
286
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2716
og ferier og den slags,
så fik de fjernet historien
så fik de fjernet historien
14:51
off the first couple pages of Google
results, but it didn't last long.
results, but it didn't last long.
287
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fra de første par siders Google
søgeresultater, men det holdt ikke længe.
søgeresultater, men det holdt ikke længe.
14:55
A couple of weeks later, they started
creeping back up to the top result.
creeping back up to the top result.
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Et par uger senere bevægede den sig
tilbage til toppen af resultaterne.
tilbage til toppen af resultaterne.
Er det en umulig kamp?
15:00
Is this a totally lost battle?
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15:02
Jon Ronson: You know, I think
the very best thing we can do,
the very best thing we can do,
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2834
Jon Ronson: Altså, jeg tror
det allerbedste vi kan gøre
det allerbedste vi kan gøre
når man ser denne her slags uretfærdige
eller tvivlsomme udskamning,
eller tvivlsomme udskamning,
15:05
if you see a kind of unfair
or an ambiguous shaming,
or an ambiguous shaming,
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4574
det er at sige fra, for jeg tror at det
værste der skete for Justine
værste der skete for Justine
15:09
is to speak up, because I think
the worst thing that happened to Justine
the worst thing that happened to Justine
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3400
var at ingen støttede hende --
som om alle var imod hende,
som om alle var imod hende,
15:13
was that nobody supported her --
like, everyone was against her,
like, everyone was against her,
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og det er dybt traumatiserende,
15:16
and that is profoundly traumatizing,
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1725
at få at vide af ti tusinder af mennesker,
at man bare skal forsvinde.
at man bare skal forsvinde.
15:18
to be told by tens of thousands of people
that you need to get out.
that you need to get out.
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3822
Men hvis en udskamning sker, men med
en masse blandede stemmer,
en masse blandede stemmer,
15:21
But if a shaming happens and there's
a babble of voices, like in a democracy,
a babble of voices, like in a democracy,
296
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4090
som i et demokrati hvor folk diskuterer,
så tror jeg det er mindre skadeligt.
så tror jeg det er mindre skadeligt.
15:26
where people are discussing it,
I think that's much less damaging.
I think that's much less damaging.
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3096
Jeg tror, at det er vejen frem,
15:29
So I think that's the way forward,
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1627
men det er svært, for hvis du
forsvarer en eller anden,
forsvarer en eller anden,
15:30
but it's hard, because if you do
stand up for somebody,
stand up for somebody,
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2596
kan det blive rigtig ubehageligt.
15:33
it's incredibly unpleasant.
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1696
15:35
BG: So let's talk about your experience,
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1920
BG: Lad os så snakke om din erfaring,
for du sagde jo fra, ved at skrive denne bog.
15:37
because you stood up by writing this book.
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925167
2008
Forresten, så er den obligatorisk
læsning for alle, okay?
læsning for alle, okay?
15:39
By the way, it's mandatory
reading for everybody, okay?
reading for everybody, okay?
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2589
Du sagde fra, fordi bogen faktisk flytter
fokus til dem der laver udskamningerne.
fokus til dem der laver udskamningerne.
15:41
You stood up because the book
actually puts the spotlight on shamers.
actually puts the spotlight on shamers.
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4310
Og jeg går ud fra du ikke kun
fik gode reaktioner på Twitter.
fik gode reaktioner på Twitter.
15:46
And I assume you didn't only
have friendly reactions on Twitter.
have friendly reactions on Twitter.
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3032
JR: Nej, der var nogle
der ikke var så begejstrede.
der ikke var så begejstrede.
15:49
JR: It didn't go down that well
with some people.
with some people.
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2680
(Latter)
15:51
(Laughter)
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1001
Altså, man vil jo ikke kun fokusere --
15:52
I mean, you don't want
to just concentrate --
to just concentrate --
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2104
masser af mennesker forstod,
og var rigtig venlige omkring bogen.
og var rigtig venlige omkring bogen.
15:55
because lots of people understood,
and were really nice about the book.
and were really nice about the book.
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Men ja, de sidste 30 år har jeg
skrevet historier om magtmisbrug,
skrevet historier om magtmisbrug,
15:58
But yeah, for 30 years I've been writing
stories about abuses of power,
stories about abuses of power,
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og når jeg snakker om de
magtfulde mennesker i millitæret,
magtfulde mennesker i millitæret,
16:01
and when I say the powerful people
over there in the military,
over there in the military,
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3280
16:05
or in the pharmaceutical industry,
everybody applauds me.
everybody applauds me.
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2768
eller i medicinal-industrien,
så er der lutter applaus.
så er der lutter applaus.
16:07
As soon as I say, "We are the powerful
people abusing our power now,"
people abusing our power now,"
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4375
Men så snart jeg siger, "Nu er vi dem,
der misbruger vores magt,"
der misbruger vores magt,"
så får jeg reaktioner såsom,
"Du er sikkert også en racist."
"Du er sikkert også en racist."
16:12
I get people saying,
"Well you must be a racist too."
"Well you must be a racist too."
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2724
BG: Så altså forleden --
igår -- hvor var vi ude og spise,
igår -- hvor var vi ude og spise,
16:15
BG: So the other night --
yesterday -- we were at dinner,
yesterday -- we were at dinner,
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16:17
and there were two discussions going on.
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1915
så var der to diskussioner igang samtidig.
16:19
On one side you were talking
with people around the table --
with people around the table --
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3048
På den ene side snakkede du
med folkene omkring bordet --
med folkene omkring bordet --
og det var en god,
konstruktiv diskussion.
konstruktiv diskussion.
16:22
and that was a nice,
constructive discussion.
constructive discussion.
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2163
På den anden side, hver gang
du tændte din telefon,
du tændte din telefon,
16:24
On the other, every time
you turned to your phone,
you turned to your phone,
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kom denne her syndflod af fornærmelser.
16:27
there is this deluge of insults.
320
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1561
JR: Ja-- sådan var det i aftes.
Vi havde en slags TED middag i aftes.
Vi havde en slags TED middag i aftes.
16:28
JR: Yeah. This happened last night.
We had like a TED dinner last night.
We had like a TED dinner last night.
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Vi snakkede, og det var fint og dejligt,
og jeg besluttede mig for at tjekke Twitter.
og jeg besluttede mig for at tjekke Twitter.
16:32
We were chatting and it was lovely
and nice, and I decided to check Twitter.
and nice, and I decided to check Twitter.
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Og nogen havde skrevet,
"Du støtter hvidt overherredømme."
"Du støtter hvidt overherredømme."
16:36
Somebody said, "You are
a white supremacist."
a white supremacist."
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2120
Og så gik jeg tilbage, og havde en
god snak med en eller anden,
god snak med en eller anden,
16:38
And then I went back and had
a nice conversation with somebody,
a nice conversation with somebody,
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2974
og så tjekkede jeg Twitter igen,
16:41
and then I went back to Twitter,
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1541
og nogen havde skrevet at selve min
eksistens gjorde verden til et værre sted.
eksistens gjorde verden til et værre sted.
16:42
somebody said my very existence
made the world a worse place.
made the world a worse place.
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3088
Min ven Adam Curtis siger
16:46
My friend Adam Curtis says
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2747
at måske er internettet som en
John Carpenter film fra 1980erne,
John Carpenter film fra 1980erne,
16:48
that maybe the Internet is like
a John Carpenter movie from the 1980s,
a John Carpenter movie from the 1980s,
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3808
hvor på et eller andet tidspunkt begynder
alle at råbe og skrige af hinanden,
alle at råbe og skrige af hinanden,
16:52
when eventually everyone
will start screaming at each other
will start screaming at each other
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16:55
and shooting each other,
and then eventually everybody
and then eventually everybody
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og skyde på hinanden,
og så på et tidspunkt
og så på et tidspunkt
flygter alle til et sikrere sted,
16:58
would flee to somewhere safer,
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1996
17:00
and I'm starting to think of that
as a really nice option.
as a really nice option.
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og jeg er begyndt at tænke
at det kunne være en god idé.
at det kunne være en god idé.
BG: Jon, mange tak.
JR: Og tak til dig, Bruno.
JR: Og tak til dig, Bruno.
17:04
BG: Jon, thank you.
JR: Thank you, Bruno.
JR: Thank you, Bruno.
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(Bifald)
17:06
(Applause)
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ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Jon Ronson - Writer, filmmakerJon Ronson is a writer and documentary filmmaker who dips into every flavor of madness, extremism and obsession.
Why you should listen
For his latest book, So You've Been Publicly Shamed, Jon Ronson spent three years traveling the world and talking to people who'd been subjected to high-profile public shamings. Whatever their transgression, the response was to be faced by an angry mob, as Ronson calls them "collective outrage circles" devoted to tearing down said person from any position of power. It does not, Ronson suggests gently, reflect so well on society as a whole.
In a previous book, The Psychopath Test, Ronson explored the unnerving world of psychopaths -- a group that includes both incarcerated killers and, one of his subjects insists, plenty of CEOs. In his books, films and articles, Ronson explores madness and obsession of all kinds, from the US military's experiments in psychic warfare to the obscene and hate-filled yet Christian rap of the Insane Clown Posse. He wrote a column for the Guardian, hosted an essay program on Radio 4 in the United Kingdom, and contributes to This American Life.
Jon Ronson | Speaker | TED.com