TED2009
Jim Fallon: Exploring the mind of a killer
Jim Fallon: Pilguheit tapja meeltesse
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Enamikes populaarsetes telesarjades esinevad psühhopaatidest mõrtsukad, kuid mis on see, mis paneb nad tegelikult tegutsema? Neuroteadlane Jim Fallon räägib aju-uuringutest ja geenianalüüsist, mis võivad paljastada nõrgad kohad tapjate loomuses (ja kasvatuses). Lugu võtab veidra pöörde kui ta jagab meiega oma põnevat perekonna ajalugu, mis muudab tema töö kõhedalt isiklikuks.
Jim Fallon - Neurobiologist
Sloan Scholar, Fulbright Fellow, Professor Emeritus of Neuroscience, Jim Fallon looks at the way nature and nurture intermingle to wire up the human brain. Full bio
Sloan Scholar, Fulbright Fellow, Professor Emeritus of Neuroscience, Jim Fallon looks at the way nature and nurture intermingle to wire up the human brain. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:18
I'm a neuroscientist, a professor at the University of California.
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Olen neuroteadlane, California Ülikooli professor.
00:21
And over the past 35 years,
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ja viimased 35 aastat
00:24
I've studied behavior
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olen uurinud käitumist
00:26
on the basis of everything from genes
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toetudes kõigele alates geenidest,
00:29
through neurotransmitters, dopamine, things like that,
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neurotransmitteritest, dopamiinist ja sellistest asjadest
00:31
all the way through circuit analysis.
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kuni vooluringi analüüsini välja.
00:33
So that's what I normally do.
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See on siis see, millega tavaliselt tegelen.
00:35
But then, for some reason,
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Kuid mingil põhjusel
00:37
I got into something else, just recently.
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sattusin ma hiljuti tegelema millegi muuga
00:39
And it all grew out of one of my colleagues asking me
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ja seda seetõttu, et üks kolleeg palus mul
00:42
to analyze a bunch of brains
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analüüsida hulka ajusid:
00:44
of psychopathic killers.
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psühhopaatidest tapjate omasid.
00:46
And so this would be the typical talk I would give.
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Ja selline oleks siis minu tüüpiline kõne.
00:49
And the question is, "How do you end up with a psychopathic killer?"
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Ja küsimus on: "Kuidas sinust kujuneb psühhopaadist tapja?"
00:52
What I mean by psychopathic killer
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Psühhopaadist mõrtsuka all mõtlen ma
00:54
are these people, these types of people.
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seda tüüpi inimesi.
00:56
And so some of the brains that I've studied
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Ja mõned minu uuritud ajudest
00:58
are people you know about.
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kuuluvad inimestele, kellest te kuulnud olete.
01:00
When I get the brains I don't know what I'm looking at.
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Kui ma saan need ajud, siis ma ei tea, mida ma otsin.
01:02
It's blind experiments. They also gave me normal people and everything.
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Need olid pimekatsed. Nad andsid mulle ka normaalsete inimeste ajusid ja puha.
01:04
So I've looked at about 70 of these.
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Niisiis ma olen uurinud umbes 70-t sellist.
01:06
And what came up was a number of pieces of data.
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Ja välja tuli hulk infokilde.
01:09
So we look at these sorts of things theoretically,
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Seega me vaatleme selliseid asju teoreetiliselt
01:12
on the basis of genetics,
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võttes aluseks geneetika
01:14
and brain damage, and interaction with environment,
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ja ajukahjustuse ja interaktsiooni keskkonnaga
01:17
and exactly how that machine works.
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ning arusaamad kuidas selline masinavärk töötab.
01:19
So we're interested in exactly where in the brain,
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Seega meid huvitas, kus otsitav täpselt ajus asub
01:21
and what's the most important part of the brain.
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ja milline aju osa on kõige olulisem.
01:23
So we've been looking at this:
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Niisiis me oleme seda asja uurinud.
01:26
the interaction of genes,
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Geenide interaktsioon,
01:28
what's called epigenetic effects,
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mida kutsutakse epigeneetilisteks efektideks,
01:30
brain damage, and environment,
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ajukahjustus ja keskkond
01:32
and how these are tied together.
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ja kuidas need omavahel seotud on.
01:34
And how you end up with a psychopath, and a killer,
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Ja kuidas sinust tekib psühhopaat ja tapja,
01:36
depends on exactly when the damage occurs.
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sõltub sellest, millal täpselt kahjustus aset leiab.
01:39
It's really a very precisely timed thing.
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See on tõesti väga täpselt ajastatud asi.
01:42
You get different kinds of psychopaths.
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Tekivad erisugused psühhopaadid.
01:44
So we're going along with this. And here's, just to give you the pattern.
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Sellega me jätkame. Ja see siin, lihtsalt, et tekiks muster.
01:47
The pattern is that those people, every one of them I looked at,
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Seaduspärasus seisneb selles, et kõigil neil inimestel, keda olen vaadelnud,
01:50
who was a murderer, and was a serial killer,
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kes olid tapjad, olid sarimõrvarid,
01:53
had damage to their orbital cortex,
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on ajukoor kahjustunud
01:55
which is right above the eyes, the orbits,
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silmade kohalt, silmakoobastes,
01:57
and also the interior part of the temporal lobe.
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ja samuti oimusagara sisemises osas.
01:59
So there is the pattern that every one of them had,
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Selline on siis muster, mis oli neil kõigil sarnane
02:01
but they all were a little different too.
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kuid samas olid kõik veidi erinevad ka.
02:03
They had other sorts of brain damage.
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Neil olid erinevad ajukahjustused.
02:05
A key thing is that
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Võtmeks on
02:07
the major violence genes,
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peamiste vägivallageenide mõju
02:10
it's called the MAO-A gene.
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nagu MAO-A geen.
02:13
And there is a variant of this gene that is in the normal population.
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Ja siin on üks vorm sellest geenist, mis esineb normpopulatsioonis.
02:17
Some of you have this. And it's sex-linked.
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Mõnedel teistki on see olemas. Ja see on sooga seotud.
02:20
It's on the X chromosome. And so in this way
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See sisaldub X kromosoomis. Ja seega
02:22
you can only get it from your mother.
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võid sa selle saada vaid oma emalt.
02:25
And in fact this is probably why mostly men, boys,
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Ja see seletab tõenäoliselt, miks enamasti on just mehed
02:29
are psychopathic killers,
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psühhopaatseteks tapjateks,
02:31
or are very aggressive.
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või on väga agressiivsed.
02:33
Because a daughter can get one X from the father,
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Sest tütar saab ühe X oma isalt,
02:36
one X from the mother, it's kind of diluted out.
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ja teise X-i oma emalt, seega selle mõju lahjeneb.
02:38
But for a son, he can only get
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Aga poeg, saab X kromosoomi
02:40
the X chromosome from his mother.
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vaid oma emalt.
02:42
So this is how it's passed from mother to son.
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Nii siis antakse see emalt pojale.
02:45
And it has to do with too much brain serotonin during development,
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Ja sellel on seos liigse serotoniini hulgaga ajus arengu kestel.
02:49
which is kind of interesting because serotonin
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Mis on omamoodi põnev, sest serotoniin
02:51
is supposed to make you calm and relaxed.
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peaks su tegema rahulikuks ja lõdvestunuks.
02:54
But if you have this gene, in utero
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Kuid kui sul on see geen, siis emakas olles
02:57
your brain is bathed in this,
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su aju supleb selles.
02:59
so your whole brain becomes insensitive to serotonin,
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Niisiis aju muutub serotoniini suhtes tundetuks.
03:01
so it doesn't work later on in life.
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Seega hiljem see elus enam ei tööta.
03:04
And I'd given this one talk in Israel,
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Pidasin Iisraelis ühe kõne
03:07
just this past year.
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alles möödunud aastal
03:09
And it does have some consequences.
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ja sel on mõningad tagajärjed.
03:11
Theoretically what this means
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Teoreetiliselt tähendab see,
03:13
is that in order to express this gene,
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et selleks, et geen avalduks
03:16
in a violent way,
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vägivaldsena,
03:18
very early on, before puberty,
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peab varases eas, enne puberteedi algust
03:20
you have to be involved in something that is really traumatic --
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kogema midagi tõeliselt traumeerivat,
03:23
not a little stress, not being spanked or something,
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mitte väikest stressi, laksu saamist või midagi sellist.
03:25
but really seeing violence,
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Vaid tõesti vägivalda nägema,
03:27
or being involved in it, in 3D.
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või sellesse lausa kaasatud olema, nagu 3D.
03:29
Right? That's how the mirror neuron system works.
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Onju? Niimoodi peegelneuronite süsteem töötabki.
03:31
And so, if you have that gene,
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Ja seega kui sul on see geen,
03:34
and you see a lot of violence
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ja sa näed palju vägivalda
03:37
in a certain situation,
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mingis kindlas situatsioonis,
03:39
this is the recipe for disaster, absolute disaster.
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siis see on katastroofi, täieliku katastroofi retsept.
03:42
And what I think might happen in these areas of the world,
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Ja minu meelest võib juhtuda, et nendes maailmapiirkondades,
03:45
where we have constant violence,
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kus on pidev vägivald,
03:48
you end up having generations of kids
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kasvab üles terve generatsioon lapsi
03:51
that are seeing all this violence.
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kes näevad kogu seda vägivalda.
03:53
And if I was a young girl, somewhere in a violent area,
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Ja kui ma oleksin noor tütarlaps kuskil vägivallapiirkonnas,
03:56
you know, a 14 year old, and I want to find a mate,
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teate, 14-aastane, ja tahaksin leida kaaslast,
03:58
I'd find some tough guy, right, to protect me.
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otsiksin ma mingi kõva kuti, eks, et see mind kaitseks.
04:01
Well what the problem is this tends to concentrate these genes.
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Kuid probleem on selles, et sellises olukorras kipuvad need geenid konsentreeruma.
04:05
And now the boys and the girls get them.
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Ja nüüd poisid ja tüdrukud saavad need.
04:07
So I think after several generations,
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Seega ma arvan, et peale mitut põlve,
04:09
and here is the idea, we really have a tinderbox.
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idee on selline, et meil on tegemist tõelise aegpommiga.
04:12
So that was the idea.
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Selline oli siis see idee.
04:14
But then my mother said to me, "I hear you've been going around talking
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Kuid siis ütles mu ema mulle, "Ma kuulsin, et sa käid ringi ja räägid
04:16
about psychopathic killers.
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psühhopaatidest tapjatest.
04:19
And you're talking as if you come from a normal family."
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Ja sa räägid nagu sina tuleksid normaalsest perest."
04:22
I said, "What the hell are you talking about?"
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Ma vastasin, "Millest sa põrgu päralt räägid?"
04:24
She then told me about our own family tree.
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Ta rääkis mulle siis meie enda sugupuust.
04:27
Now she blamed this on my father's side, of course.
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Ta süüdistas loomulikult isapoolset suguvõsa.
04:29
This was one of these cases, because she has no violence in her background,
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See oli ka selline juhtum, kuna tema taustas vägivald puudus.
04:33
but my father did.
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Kuid mu isa omas oli.
04:35
Well she said, "There is good news and bad news.
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Seega ta ütles," Mul on head ja halvad uudised,
04:37
One of your cousins is Ezra Cornell, founder of Cornell university.
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Üheks sinu nõbuks on Ezra Cornell, Cornelli ülikooli asutaja,
04:40
But the bad news is that your cousin is also Lizzie Borden.
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kuid halb uudis on see, et sinu nõbuks on ka Lizzi Borden.
04:43
Now I said, "Okay, so what? We have Lizzie."
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Nüüd ma vastasin;" Okei, ja siis? Meil on Lizzi."
04:50
She goes, "No it gets worse, read this book."
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Ta jätkas, " Ei, see läheb hullemaks, loe seda raamatut."
04:52
And here is this "Killed Strangely," and it's this historical book.
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Ja seal see oli, "Kummaliselt mõrvatud," ja see on ajalooline raamat.
04:54
And the first murder
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Ja esimene mõrtsukas,
04:56
of a mother by a son
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poeg, kes tappis oma ema,
04:58
was my great-great-great-great-great-great-grandfather.
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oli minu vana-vana-vana-vana-vana-vanaisa.
05:01
Okay, so that's the first case of matricide.
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Okei, see oli siis esimene ematapp.
05:04
And that book is very interesting. Because it's about witch trials,
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Ja see raamat on väga huvitav. Sest see on nõiaprotsessidest,
05:07
and how people thought back then.
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ja sellest, kuidas inimesed tol ajal mõtlesid.
05:09
But it doesn't stop there.
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Kuid see ei lõpe sellega.
05:11
There were seven more men, on my father's side,
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Oli veel seitse meest minu isapoolsest suguvõsast,
05:14
starting then, Cornells, that were all murderers.
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alates sellest ajast, Cornellid, kes kõik olid mõrtsukad.
05:18
Okay, now this gives one a little pause.
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Noh, see väärib küll pausi.
05:21
(Laughter)
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(naer)
05:23
Because my father himself,
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Sest minu isa,
05:25
and my three uncles, in World War II,
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ja mu kolm onu, olid Teises Maailmasõja ajal
05:27
were all conscientious objectors, all pussycats.
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kõik väeteenistusest keeldujad, süleloomakesed.
05:30
But every once in a while, like Lizzie Borden, like three times a century,
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Kuid aeg-ajalt ikka juhtub, nagu Lizzie Borden, umbes kolm korda sajandis,
05:32
and we're kind of due.
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ja me olemegi kohe sellised.
05:34
(Laughter)
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(naer)
05:37
So the moral of the story is:
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Seega loo moraal on:
05:39
people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.
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inimesed klaasmajades ei tohiks kive loopida.
05:41
But more likely is this.
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Kuid tõenäolisem on see:
05:44
(Laughter)
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(naer)
05:48
And we had to take action. Now our kids found out about it.
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Me pidime tegutsema. Nüüd said meie lapsed sellest teada.
05:51
And they all seemed to be OK.
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Ja nad kõik tundusid OK.
05:53
But our grandkids are going to be kind of concerned here.
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Kuid meie lapselapsi teeb see veidi murelikuks.
05:56
So what we've done is I've started to do PET scans
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Seega ma asusin tegema PET skaneeringuid
05:59
of everybody in the family.
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kõigile oma pereliikmetele.
06:01
(Laughter)
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(naer)
06:02
We started to do PET scans, EEGs and genetic analysis
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Me asusime tegema PET skaneeringuid, EEG-sid ja geenianalüüse
06:05
to see where the bad news is.
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et näha, kus kohast halb uudis tulemas on.
06:07
Now the only person -- it turns out
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Ainsad inimesed, nagu välja tuli
06:09
one son and one daughter, siblings,
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üks poeg, üks tütar, õde-venda,
06:12
didn't get along and their patterns are exactly the same.
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ei saanud omavahel läbi. Ja nende mustrid on täpselt ühesugused.
06:14
They have the same brain, and the same EEG.
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Neil on sarnane aju ja sarnane EEG.
06:17
And now they are close as can be.
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Aga nüüd on nad nii lähedased kui olla saab.
06:20
But there's gonna be bad news somewhere.
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Kuid kuskil saab see halb uudis olema
06:22
And we don't know where it's going to pop up.
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ja me ei tea, kust see äkki välja ilmub.
06:24
So that's my talk.
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Selline oli siis minu ettekanne.
06:26
(Laughter)
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naer.
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Jim Fallon - NeurobiologistSloan Scholar, Fulbright Fellow, Professor Emeritus of Neuroscience, Jim Fallon looks at the way nature and nurture intermingle to wire up the human brain.
Why you should listen
Jim Fallon has taught neuroscience and psychiatry grand rounds at the University of California Irvine for thirty-five years. Through research he explores the way genetic and perinatal environmental factors affect the way the brain gets built -- and then how an individual's experience further shapes his or her development. He lectures and writes on creativity, consciousness and culture, and has made key contributions to our understanding of adult stems and stroke, schizophrenia, Parkinson's disease and Alzheimer's disease.
Only lately has Fallon turned his research toward the subject of psychopaths -- particularly those who kill. With PET scans and EEGs, he's beginning to uncover the deep, underlying traits that make people violent and murderous. In his talk at TEDDIY at TED@PalmSprings, he shared a surprise discovery about his own family that prompted him to bring his work home.
Watch his followup talk from The Moth at the 2011 World Science Festival >>
Jim Fallon | Speaker | TED.com