TEDGlobal 2011
Paul Bloom: The origins of pleasure
Pols Blūms: Baudas avoti
Filmed:
Readability: 3.7
2,137,903 views
Kāpēc mums gleznas oriģināls patīk labāk nekā viltojums? Psihologs Pols Blūms apgalvo, ka cilvēki ir esenciālisti, ka mūsu uzskati par objekta vēsturi mainās pēc tā, kā mēs to pieredzam, ne tikai kā ilūzija, bet kā dziļa pazīme par to, kas ir bauda (un sāpes).
Paul Bloom - Psychologist
Paul Bloom explores some of the most puzzling aspects of human nature, including pleasure, religion, and morality. Full bio
Paul Bloom explores some of the most puzzling aspects of human nature, including pleasure, religion, and morality. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:15
I'm going to talk today
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Šodien es runāšu
00:17
about the pleasures of everyday life.
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par ikdienas dzīves baudām.
00:19
But I want to begin with a story
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Taču vēlos sākt ar stāstu
00:21
of an unusual and terrible man.
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par neparastu un šausmīgu cilvēku.
00:23
This is Hermann Goering.
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Šis ir Hermanis Gērings.
00:25
Goering was Hitler's second in command in World War II,
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Gērings bija Hitlera labā roka 2. Pasaules karā,
00:28
his designated successor.
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viņa nozīmētais pēctecis.
00:30
And like Hitler,
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Tāpat kā Hitlers,
00:32
Goering fancied himself a collector of art.
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arī Gērings sevi iedomājās par mākslas kolekcionāru.
00:34
He went through Europe, through World War II,
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Viņš devās cauri Eiropai, 2. Pasaules kara laikā,
00:36
stealing, extorting and occasionally buying
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zogot, izspiežot un šad tad nopērkot
00:39
various paintings for his collection.
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dažādas gleznas savai kolekcijai.
00:41
And what he really wanted was something by Vermeer.
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Viņš patiešām vēlējās kādu Vermēra darbs.
00:44
Hitler had two of them, and he didn't have any.
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Hitleram bija divi Vermēra darbi, bet viņam nebija neviena.
00:47
So he finally found an art dealer,
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Tā nu viņš beidzot atrada mākslas darbu uzpircēju,
00:49
a Dutch art dealer named Han van Meegeren,
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holandiešu mākslas darbu uzpircēju Hanu van Mēgerenu,
00:52
who sold him a wonderful Vermeer
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kurš pārdeva viņam brīnišķīgu Vermēra darbu
00:54
for the cost of what would now be 10 million dollars.
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par cenu, kāda tagad būtu 10 miljoni dolāru.
00:57
And it was his favorite artwork ever.
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Tas bija viņa visu laiku mīļākais mākslas darbs.
01:00
World War II came to an end,
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2. Pasaules karš beidzās,
01:02
and Goering was captured, tried at Nuremberg
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un Gērings tika sagūstīts, tiesāts Nirnbergā
01:05
and ultimately sentenced to death.
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un galu galā notiesāts uz nāvi.
01:08
Then the Allied forces went through his collections
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Tad sabiedrotie spēki pārskatīja viņa kolekcijas,
01:10
and found the paintings
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un atrada gleznas,
01:12
and went after the people who sold it to him.
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un devās meklēt cilvēkus, kas viņam tās pārdeva.
01:14
And at some point the Dutch police came into Amsterdam
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Vienubrīd Nīderlandes policija ieradās Amsterdamā
01:17
and arrested Van Meegeren.
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un apcietināja Van Mēgerenu.
01:19
Van Meegeren was charged with the crime of treason,
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Van Mēgerens tika apsūdzēts par nodevību,
01:22
which is itself punishable by death.
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kura pati par sevi ir sodāma ar nāvi.
01:25
Six weeks into his prison sentence,
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Pēc sešām cietumā pavadītām nedēļām
01:27
van Meegeren confessed.
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Van Mēgerens atzinās.
01:29
But he didn't confess to treason.
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Taču viņš neatzinās nodevībā.
01:31
He said, "I did not sell a great masterpiece
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Viņš teica: „Es nepārdevu lielisku meistardarbu
01:34
to that Nazi.
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tam nacistam.
01:36
I painted it myself; I'm a forger."
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Es to uzgleznoju pats, es esmu viltotājs.”
01:39
Now nobody believed him.
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Neviens viņam neticēja.
01:42
And he said, "I'll prove it.
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Viņš teica: „Es to pierādīšu.
01:44
Bring me a canvas and some paint,
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Atnesiet man audeklu un krāsas,
01:46
and I will paint a Vermeer much better
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un es uzgleznošu Vermēra gleznu daudz labāk
01:48
than I sold that disgusting Nazi.
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par to, ko pārdevu tam pretīgajam nacistam.
01:50
I also need alcohol and morphine, because it's the only way I can work."
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Man arī vajadzīgs alkohols un morfijs, jo tikai tā es varu strādāt.”
01:53
(Laughter)
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(Smiekli)
01:55
So they brought him in.
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Tā nu viņi visu atnesa.
01:57
He painted a beautiful Vermeer.
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Viņš uzgleznoja skaistu Vermēra gleznu.
02:00
And then the charges of treason were dropped.
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Apsūdzību nodevībā atcēla.
02:03
He had a lesser charge of forgery,
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Viņš saņēma mazāku apsūdzību par viltošanu,
02:05
got a year sentence
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izcieta gada cietumsodu
02:07
and died a hero to the Dutch people.
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un mira kā nīderlandiešu varonis.
02:11
There's a lot more to be said about van Meegeren,
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Ir daudz kas vairāk, ko teikt par Van Mēgerenu,
02:14
but I want to turn now to Goering,
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taču nu es vēlos pievērsties Gēringam,
02:16
who's pictured here being interrogated at Nuremberg.
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kurš šajā attēlā redzams, tiekot pratinātam Nirnbergā.
02:19
Now Goering was, by all accounts, a terrible man.
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Gērings katrā ziņā bija briesmīgs cilvēks.
02:21
Even for a Nazi, he was a terrible man.
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Pat kā nacists viņš bija briesmīgs cilvēks.
02:24
His American interrogators described him
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Viņa amerikāņu pratinātāji aprakstīja viņu
02:27
as an amicable psychopath.
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kā draudzīgu psihopātu.
02:29
But you could feel sympathy
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Taču jūs varētu just līdzjūtību
02:31
for the reaction he had
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par viņa reakciju,
02:33
when he was told that his favorite painting
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kad viņam pateica, ka viņa mīļākā glezna
02:35
was actually a forgery.
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īstenībā bija viltojums.
02:37
According to his biographer,
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Saskaņā ar viņa biogrāfu:
02:39
"He looked as if for the first time
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„Viņš izskatījās, it kā pirmo reizi
02:41
he had discovered there was evil in the world."
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būtu atklājis, ka pasaulē ir ļaunums.”
02:43
(Laughter)
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(Smiekli)
02:46
And he killed himself soon afterwards.
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Drīz pēc tam viņš izdarīja pašnāvību.
02:49
He had discovered after all
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Galu galā viņš tika atklājis,
02:51
that the painting he thought was this
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ka glezna, kura, viņaprāt, bija šāda,
02:53
was actually that.
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īstenībā bija šāda.
02:56
It looked the same,
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Tā izskatījās tāpat,
02:58
but it had a different origin, it was a different artwork.
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taču tai bija citāda izcelsme, tas bija cits mākslas darbs.
03:00
It wasn't just him who was in for a shock.
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Tas nebija tikai viņš, kurš bija šokā.
03:02
Once van Meegeren was on trial, he couldn't stop talking.
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Van Mēgerenam tiekot tiesātam, viņš nespēja beigt runāt.
03:05
And he boasted about all the great masterpieces
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Viņš lielījās par visiem lieliskajiem meistardarbiem,
03:07
that he himself had painted
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ko viņš pats tika uzgleznojis,
03:09
that were attributed to other artists.
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bet kurus piedēvēja citiem māksliniekiem.
03:11
In particular, "The Supper at Emmaus"
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Piemēram, „Vakariņas Emmausā”,
03:13
which was viewed as Vermeer's finest masterpiece, his best work --
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kura tika uzskatīta par Vermēra lieliskāko meistardarbu, viņa labāko darbu,
03:16
people would come [from] all over the world to see it --
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cilvēki ieradās no visas pasaules, lai to redzētu,
03:19
was actually a forgery.
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tas īstenībā bija viltojums.
03:21
It was not that painting, but that painting.
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Tā nebija tā glezna, bet šī glezna.
03:23
And when that was discovered,
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To atklājot,
03:25
it lost all its value and was taken away from the museum.
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glezna zaudēja visu savu vērtību un tika izņemta no muzeja.
03:28
Why does this matter?
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Kāpēc tam ir nozīmei?
03:30
I'm a psychologists -- why do origins matter so much?
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Jūs, psihologi, kāpēc izcelsmei ir tik liela nozīme?
03:33
Why do we respond so much
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Kāpēc mēs tik ļoti atsaucamies
03:35
to our knowledge of where something comes from?
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uz savām zināšanām par to, no kurienes kaut kas nāk?
03:38
Well there's an answer that many people would give.
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Uz to ir atbilde, ko sniegtu daudzi cilvēki.
03:40
Many sociologists like Veblen and Wolfe
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Daudzi sociologi kā Veblēns un Volfe
03:43
would argue that the reason why we take origins so seriously
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iebilstu, ka iemesls, kāpēc mēs uztveram izcelsmi tik nopietni,
03:46
is because we're snobs, because we're focused on status.
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ir tas, ka mēs esam snobi, jo mēs esam koncentrējušies uz sabiedrisko stāvokli.
03:49
Among other things,
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Starp daudzām lietām,
03:51
if you want to show off how rich you are, how powerful you are,
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ja vēlaties izrādīt to, cik esat bagāts, cik esat ietekmīgs,
03:53
it's always better to own an original than a forgery
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vienmēr labāk būt oriģināla nevis viltojuma īpašniekam,
03:55
because there's always going to be fewer originals than forgeries.
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jo vienmēr oriģinālu būs mazāk nekā viltojumu.
03:59
I don't doubt that that plays some role,
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Es nešaubos, ka tam ir nozīme,
04:01
but what I want to convince you of today
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bet es vēlos jūs šodien pārliecināt,
04:03
is that there's something else going on.
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ka notiek arī kas cits.
04:05
I want to convince you
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Es vēlos jūs pārliecināt,
04:07
that humans are, to some extent, natural born essentialists.
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ka cilvēki ir zināmā mērā dzimuši esencālisti.
04:10
What I mean by this
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Es ar to domāju,
04:12
is we don't just respond to things as we see them,
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ka mēs nereaģējam uz lietām tā, kā tās redzam,
04:14
or feel them, or hear them.
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vai jūtam, vai dzirdam tās.
04:16
Rather, our response is conditioned on our beliefs,
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Visbiežāk mūsu atbilde ir atkarīga no mūsu pārliecības
04:19
about what they really are, what they came from,
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par to, kas tās īstenībā ir, no kurienes tās nāk,
04:22
what they're made of, what their hidden nature is.
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no kā tās taisītas, kāda ir to apslēptā daba.
04:25
I want to suggest that this is true,
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Es vēlos teikt, ka tā ir patiesība,
04:27
not just for how we think about things,
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ne tikai tas, kā mēs domājam par lietām,
04:29
but how we react to things.
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bet kā mēs reaģējam uz lietām.
04:31
So I want to suggest that pleasure is deep --
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Tā nu es vēlos pateikt, ka bauda ir dziļa
04:33
and that this isn't true
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un to, ka tā nav patiesība
04:35
just for higher level pleasures like art,
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tikai par augstāka līmeņa baudām kā māksla,
04:38
but even the most seemingly simple pleasures
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bet pat šķietami vienkāršās baudas
04:41
are affected by our beliefs about hidden essences.
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ietekmē mūsu pārliecība par apslēptu būtību.
04:44
So take food.
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Paņemsim ēdienu.
04:46
Would you eat this?
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Vai jūs to ēstu?
04:48
Well, a good answer is, "It depends. What is it?"
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Laba atbilde ir: „Atkarībā no tā, kas tas ir.”
04:51
Some of you would eat it if it's pork, but not beef.
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Daži no jums to ēstu, ja tā ir cūkgaļa, bet nav liellopu gaļa.
04:53
Some of you would eat it if it's beef, but not pork.
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Daži no jums to ēstu, ja tā ir liellopu gaļa, bet ne cūkgaļa.
04:56
Few of you would eat it if it's a rat
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Maz no jums to ēstu, ja tā ir žurka
04:58
or a human.
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vai cilvēks.
05:00
Some of you would eat it only if it's a strangely colored piece of tofu.
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Daži no jums to ēstu tikai tad, ja tas ir dīvainas krāsas tofu gabaliņš.
05:04
That's not so surprising.
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Tas nav tik pārsteidzoši.
05:06
But what's more interesting
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Daudz interesantāk
05:08
is how it tastes to you
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ir tas, ka kā tas jums garšo
05:10
will depend critically on what you think you're eating.
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būs kritiski atkarīgs no tā, ko, jūsuprāt, ēdat.
05:13
So one demonstration of this was done with young children.
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Viena šāda demonstrācija tika veikta ar maziem bērniem.
05:16
How do you make children
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Kā piespiest bērnu
05:18
not just be more likely to eat carrots and drink milk,
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ne tikai ēst burkānus un dzert pienu,
05:21
but to get more pleasure from eating carrots and drinking milk --
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bet gūt lielāku baudu no burkānu ēšanas un piena dzeršanas,
05:24
to think they taste better?
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domāt, ka tie garšo labāk?
05:26
It's simple, you tell them they're from McDonald's.
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Tas ir vienkārši, pasakot, ka tie ir no McDonald's.
05:29
They believe McDonald's food is tastier,
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Viņi tic, ka McDonald's ēdiens ir garšīgāks,
05:31
and it leads them to experience it as tastier.
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un tas noved pie tā, ka viņiem tas šķiet garšīgāks.
05:34
How do you get adults to really enjoy wine?
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Kā piedabūt pieaugušos tiešām izbaudīt vīnu?
05:36
It's very simple:
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Tas ir ļoti vienkārši:
05:38
pour it from an expensive bottle.
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ielejiet to no dārgas pudeles.
05:40
There are now dozens, perhaps hundreds of studies showing
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Ir dučiem, iespējams, pat simtiem pētījumu, kas parāda,
05:43
that if you believe you're drinking the expensive stuff,
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ka, ticot, ka dzerat ko dārgu,
05:45
it tastes better to you.
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tas jums garšo labāk.
05:47
This was recently done with a neuroscientific twist.
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Tas nesen tika veikts no neirozinātnes viedokļa.
05:50
They get people into a fMRI scanner,
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Viņi iedabūja cilvēkus magnētiskās rezonanses skenerī,
05:52
and while they're lying there, through a tube,
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un kamēr viņi tur gulēja, pa caurulīti
05:54
they get to sip wine.
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viņi dabūja nelieliem malkiem dzert vīnu.
05:56
In front of them on a screen is information about the wine.
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Viņu priekšā uz ekrāna bija informācija par vīnu.
05:59
Everybody, of course,
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Ikviens, protams,
06:01
drinks exactly the same wine.
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dzēra tieši to pašu vīnu.
06:03
But if you believe you're drinking expensive stuff,
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Taču ja ticat, ka dzerat dārgu vīnu,
06:06
parts of the brain associated with pleasure and reward
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smadzeņu daļas, kas ir saistītas ar baudu un atalgojumu,
06:09
light up like a Christmas tree.
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izgaismojas kā Ziemassvētku eglīte.
06:11
It's not just that you say it's more pleasurable, you say you like it more,
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Jums tas ne tikai šķiet daudz patīkamāks,
06:14
you really experience it in a different way.
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jūs patiešām to izjūtat citādāk.
06:17
Or take sex.
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Paņemsim seksu.
06:20
These are stimuli I've used in some of my studies.
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Šie ir stimuli, kurus esmu izmantojis dažos no saviem eksperimentiem.
06:23
And if you simply show people these pictures,
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Cilvēkiem parādot šos attēlus,
06:26
they'll say these are fairly attractive people.
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viņi teiks, ka tie ir diezgan valdzinoši cilvēki.
06:28
But how attractive you find them,
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Taču par cik valdzinošiem jūs viņus uzskatāt,
06:31
how sexually or romantically moved you are by them,
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cik seksuāli vai romantiski esat aizkustināti,
06:34
rests critically on who you think you're looking at.
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ir kritiski atkarīgs no tā, uz ko, jūsuprāt, skatāties.
06:37
You probably think the picture on the left is male,
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Jūs, iespējams, domājat, ka attēlā pa kreisi ir vīrietis,
06:40
the one on the right is female.
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bet pa labi ir sieviete.
06:42
If that belief turns out to be mistaken, it will make a difference.
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Ja šī pārliecība izrādās nepareiza, tas visu mainīs.
06:45
(Laughter)
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(Smiekli)
06:47
It will make a difference if they turn out to be
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Tas mainīsies, ja viņi izrādīsies
06:49
much younger or much older than you think they are.
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daudz jaunāki vai daudz vecāki nekā jums šķiet.
06:52
It will make a difference if you were to discover
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Tas mainīsies, ja atklāsit,
06:54
that the person you're looking at with lust
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ka cilvēks, uz kuru raugāties ar iekāri,
06:56
is actually a disguised version of your son or daughter,
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īstenībā ir jūsu dēla vai meitas, mātes vai tēva
06:58
your mother or father.
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apslēpta versija.
07:00
Knowing somebody's your kin typically kills the libido.
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Zināšana, ka kāds ir jūsu radinieks, parasti izjauc dzimumtieksmi.
07:03
Maybe one of the most heartening findings
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Iespējams, viens no iepriecinošākajiem atklājumiem
07:05
from the psychology of pleasure
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baudas psiholoģijā
07:07
is there's more to looking good than your physical appearance.
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ir, ka ir kas vairāk par ārējo izskatu, kas liek izskatīties labi.
07:10
If you like somebody, they look better to you.
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Ja jums kāds patīk, viņš jums šķiet pievilcīgāks,
07:13
This is why spouses in happy marriages
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Tādēļ laulātie draugi laimīgās laulībās
07:16
tend to think that their husband or wife
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mēdz domāt, ka viņu vīrs vai sieva
07:18
looks much better than anyone else thinks that they do.
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izskatās daudz labāk, nekā to uzskata citi.
07:21
(Laughter)
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(Smiekli)
07:23
A particularly dramatic example of this
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Īpaši dramatisks piemērs
07:26
comes from a neurological disorder known as Capgras syndrome.
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nāk no neiroloģiskas slimības, ko sauc par Kapgrasa sindromu.
07:29
So Capgras syndrome is a disorder
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Kapgrasa sindroms ir slimība,
07:32
where you get a specific delusion.
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kad jums ir specifiska mānija.
07:34
Sufferers of Capgras syndrome
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Kapgrasa sindroma cietēji
07:36
believe that the people they love most in the world
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tic, ka cilvēki, kurus viņi mīl vairāk par visu pasaulē,
07:38
have been replaced by perfect duplicates.
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ir tikuši aizvietoti ar ideālām kopijām.
07:40
Now often, a result of Capgras syndrome is tragic.
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Bieži Kapgrasa sindroma rezultāts ir traģisks.
07:43
People have murdered those that they loved,
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Cilvēki ir nogalinājuši tos, ko mīlēja,
07:45
believing that they were murdering an imposter.
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ticot, ka viņi nogalina viltvārdi.
07:48
But there's at least one case
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Taču ir vismaz viens gadījums,
07:50
where Capgras syndrome had a happy ending.
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kad Kapgrasa sindromam bija laimīgas beigas.
07:52
This was recorded in 1931.
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Tas notika 1931. gadā.
07:54
"Research described a woman with Capgras syndrome
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„Pētījumos aprakstīja sievieti ar Kapgrasa sindromu,
07:57
who complained about her poorly endowed and sexually inadequate lover."
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kura sūdzējās par savu slikti apveltīto un seksuāli nepilnvērtīgo mīļāko.”
08:00
But that was before she got Capgras syndrome.
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Tas bija pirms viņa saslima ar Kapgrasa sindromu.
08:03
After she got it, "She was happy to report
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Pēc tam, kad viņa saslima: „Viņa priecīgi ziņoja,
08:05
that she has discovered that he possessed a double
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ka atklājusi, ka viņš pārvērties dubultniekā,
08:08
who was rich, virile, handsome and aristocratic."
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kurš ir bagāts, vīrišķīgs, izskatīgs un aristokrātisks.”
08:10
Of course, it was the same man,
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Protams, tas bija tas pats vīrietis,
08:12
but she was seeing him in different ways.
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bet viņa to redzēja citādāk.
08:14
As a third example,
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Kā trešo piemēru
08:16
consider consumer products.
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gribu minēt patēriņa preces.
08:18
So one reason why you might like something is its utility.
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Viens iemesls, kādēļ jums kaut kas varētu patikt, ir tā lietderīgums.
08:21
You can put shoes on your feet; you can play golf with golf clubs;
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Kurpes jūs varat uzvilkt kājas; ar golfa nūjām varat spēlēt golfu;
08:24
and chewed up bubble gum doesn't do anything at all for you.
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un košļājamās gumijas košļāšana jums neko nedod.
08:27
But each of these three objects has value
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Taču katrai no šīm trim lietām vērtība ir
08:29
above and beyond what it can do for you
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daudz augstāka, nekā to noderīgums,
08:31
based on its history.
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atkarībā no to pagātnes.
08:33
The golf clubs were owned by John F. Kennedy
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Golfa nūjas piederēja Džonam F. Kenedijam,
08:36
and sold for three-quarters of a million dollars at auction.
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un tika izsolītas par trim ceturtdaļām miljona dolāru.
08:39
The bubble gum was chewed up by pop star Britney Spears
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Košļājamo gumiju bija košļājusi popzvaigzne Britnija Spīrsa,
08:42
and sold for several hundreds of dollars.
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un to pārdeva par vairākiem simtiem dolāru.
08:44
And in fact, there's a thriving market
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Īstenībā ir augošs slavenu cilvēku
08:46
in the partially eaten food of beloved people.
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daļēji apsēstās pārtikas tirgus.
08:49
(Laughter)
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(Smiekli)
08:51
The shoes are perhaps the most valuable of all.
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Kurpes, iespējams, ir visvērtīgākās.
08:54
According to an unconfirmed report,
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Balstoties uz neapstiprinātu ziņojumu,
08:56
a Saudi millionaire offered 10 million dollars
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Sauda Arābijas miljonārs piedāvāja 10 miljonus dolāru
08:58
for this pair of shoes.
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par šo kurpju pāri.
09:00
They were the ones thrown at George Bush
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Pirms dažiem gadiem Irākas preses konferencē
09:03
at an Iraqi press conference several years ago.
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šīs kurpes tika mestas Džordžam Bušam.
09:05
(Applause)
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(Aplausi)
09:07
Now this attraction to objects
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Šī tieksme pēc lietām
09:09
doesn't just work for celebrity objects.
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neattiecas tikai uz slavenību lietām.
09:11
Each one of us, most people,
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Ikvienam no mums, vairumam cilvēku,
09:13
have something in our life that's literally irreplaceable,
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dzīvē ir kaut kas, kas burtiski ir neaizvietojams,
09:16
in that it has value because of its history --
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tāpēc, ka tam ir vēsturiska vērtība,
09:19
maybe your wedding ring, maybe your child's baby shoes --
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varbūt jūsu laulību gredzens, varbūt bērna kurpītes,
09:22
so that if it was lost, you couldn't get it back.
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ja tas pazustu, jūs to nevarētu atgūt.
09:25
You could get something that looked like it or felt like it,
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Jūs varētu dabūt ko tādu, kas tam līdzinātos vai būtu tāda pati sajūta,
09:27
but you couldn't get the same object back.
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bet jūs nevarētu atgūt to pašu lietu.
09:30
With my colleagues George Newman and Gil Diesendruck,
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Kopā ar kolēģiem Džordžu Ņūmenu un Gilu Dīzendraku
09:33
we've looked to see what sort of factors, what sort of history, matters
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mēs esam apskatījuši, kāda veida faktori, kāda veida pagātne ir svarīga
09:36
for the objects that people like.
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lietām, kas cilvēkiem patīk.
09:38
So in one of our experiments,
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Vienā no mūsu eksperimentiem
09:40
we asked people to name a famous person who they adored,
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mēs jautājām cilvēkiem nosaukt slavenu cilvēku, kuru viņi dievina,
09:43
a living person they adored.
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dzīvu cilvēku, kuru viņi dievina.
09:45
So one answer was George Clooney.
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Viena atbilde bija Džordžs Klūnijs.
09:47
Then we asked them,
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Tad mēs viņiem jautājām,
09:49
"How much would you pay for George Clooney's sweater?"
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„Cik daudz jūs būtu gatavi maksāt par Džordža Klūnija džemperi?”
09:51
And the answer is a fair amount --
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Atbilde ir vidēja naudas summa,
09:53
more than you would pay for a brand new sweater
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vairāk, nekā jūs maksātu par jaunu džemperi
09:56
or a sweater owned by somebody who you didn't adore.
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vai džemperi, kas piederējis kādam, kuru nedievināt.
09:59
Then we asked other groups of subjects --
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Tad mēs jautājām citām cilvēku grupām,
10:01
we gave them different restrictions
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mēs viņiem devām atšķirīgus ierobežojumus
10:03
and different conditions.
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un atšķirīgus nosacījumus.
10:05
So for instance, we told some people,
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Piemēram, mēs dažiem cilvēkiem pateicām,
10:07
"Look, you can buy the sweater,
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„Klau, jūs varat nopirkt džemperi,
10:09
but you can't tell anybody you own it,
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bet nevarat nevienam teikt, ka jums tas pieder,
10:11
and you can't resell it."
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un nevarat to pārdot tālāk.”
10:13
That drops the value of it,
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Tas samazina tā cenu,
10:15
suggesting that that's one reason why we like it.
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liecinot par to, ka tas ir viens iemesls, kāpēc mums tas patīk.
10:18
But what really causes an effect
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Taču patiešam liela ietekme,
10:20
is you tell people, "Look, you could resell it, you could boast about it,
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ir, sakot cilvēkiem: „Klau, jūs varat to pārdot, varat ar to lielīties,
10:23
but before it gets to you,
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bet pirms tas nonāk pie jums,
10:25
it's thoroughly washed."
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tas tiks kārtīgi izmazgāts.”
10:27
That causes a huge drop in the value.
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Tas izraisa milzīgu vērtības krišanos.
10:30
As my wife put it, "You've washed away the Clooney cooties."
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Kā mana sieva teica: „Tu nomazgāji nost Klūnija utis.”
10:33
(Laughter)
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(Smiekli)
10:35
So let's go back to art.
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Atgriezīsimies pie mākslas.
10:37
I would love a Chagall. I love the work of Chagall.
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Es mīlu Šagālu. Es mīlu Šagāla darbus.
10:39
If people want to get me something at the end of the conference,
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Ja cilvēki vēlētos konferences beigās man ko uzdāvināt,
10:41
you could buy me a Chagall.
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jūs varētu man nopirkt ko no Šagāla.
10:43
But I don't want a duplicate,
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Taču es nevēlos reprodukciju,
10:45
even if I can't tell the difference.
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pat ja neredzu atšķirību.
10:47
That's not because, or it's not simply because,
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Tas nav tādēļ vai vienkārši tādēļ,
10:49
I'm a snob and want to boast about having an original.
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ka es būtu snobs un vēlos lielīties ar to, ka man pieder oriģināls.
10:52
Rather, it's because I want something that has a specific history.
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Drīzāk tas ir tāpēc, ka vēlos kaut ko, kam ir īpaša vēsture.
10:55
In the case of artwork,
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Mākslas darba gadījumā
10:57
the history is special indeed.
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vēsture ir patiešam īpaša.
10:59
The philosopher Denis Dutton
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Filozofs Deniss Datons
11:01
in his wonderful book "The Art Instinct"
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savā brīnišķīgajā grāmatā „Mākslas instinkts”
11:03
makes the case that, "The value of an artwork
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apgalvo, ka: „Mākslas darba vērtība
11:05
is rooted in assumptions about the human performance underlying its creation."
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sakņojas pieņēmumos par cilvēka sniegumu, kas ir pamatā viņa jaunradei.”
11:08
And that could explain the difference
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Tas varētu izskaidrot atšķirību
11:10
between an original and a forgery.
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starp oriģinālu un viltojumu.
11:12
They may look alike, but they have a different history.
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Tie var izskatīties līdzīgi, bet tiem ir atšķirīga vēsture.
11:14
The original is typically the product of a creative act,
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Oriģināls parasti ir radošas darbības iznākums,
11:17
the forgery isn't.
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bet viltojums nav.
11:19
I think this approach can explain differences
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Uzskatu, ka šī pieeja var izskaidrot atšķirības
11:22
in people's taste in art.
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cilvēku mākslinieciskajā gaumē.
11:24
This is a work by Jackson Pollock.
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Lūk, Džeksona Polloka darbs.
11:26
Who here likes the work of Jackson Pollock?
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Kuriem no klātesošajiem patīk Džeksona Polloka darbs?
11:30
Okay. Who here, it does nothing for them?
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Labi. Kuriem tas neko neizsaka?
11:32
They just don't like it.
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Viņiem tas vienkārši nepatīk.
11:35
I'm not going to make a claim about who's right,
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Es necentīšos uzspiest to, kas ir pareizi,
11:37
but I will make an empirical claim
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taču es izteikšu empīrisku apgalvojumu
11:39
about people's intuitions,
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par cilvēku intuīciju,
11:41
which is that, if you like the work of Jackson Pollock,
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kas ir tāda, ka, ja jums patīk Džeksona Polloka darbs,
11:43
you'll tend more so than the people who don't like it
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jūs centīsities vairāk, lai cilvēki, kuriem tas nepatīk,
11:46
to believe that these works are difficult to create,
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ticētu, ka šos darbus ir grūti radīt,
11:49
that they require a lot of time and energy
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ka tie prasa daudz laika un enerģijas
11:51
and creative energy.
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un radošo enerģiju.
11:53
I use Jackson Pollock on purpose as an example
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Es apzināti izmantoju Džeksonu Polloku kā piemēru,
11:56
because there's a young American artist
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jo ir kāda jauna amerikāņu māksliniece,
11:58
who paints very much in the style of Jackson Pollock,
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kura glezno ļoti līdzīgā stilā kā Džeksons Polloks,
12:00
and her work was worth
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un viņas darbi bija
12:02
many tens of thousands of dollars --
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daudzus desmitus tūkstošus dolāru vērti,
12:04
in large part because she's a very young artist.
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galvenokārt tādēļ, ka viņa ir ļoti jauna māksliniece.
12:06
This is Marla Olmstead
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Šī ir Marla Olmsteda,
12:08
who did most of her work when she was three years old.
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kura vairumu savu darbu uzgleznoja triju gadu vecumā.
12:10
The interesting thing about Marla Olmstead
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Interesanta lieta par Marlu Olmstedu
12:12
is her family made the mistake
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ir, ka viņas ģimene pieļāva kļūdu,
12:14
of inviting the television program 60 Minutes II into their house
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pie sevis uzaicinot televīzijas programmu „60 Minutes II”,
12:18
to film her painting.
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lai filmētu viņu gleznojot.
12:20
And they then reported that her father was coaching her.
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Viņi ziņoja, ka viņu trenējot meitenes tēvs.
12:23
When this came out on television,
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Kad to pārraidīja televīzijā,
12:25
the value of her art dropped to nothing.
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viņas mākslas vērtība nokritās līdz nullei.
12:28
It was the same art, physically,
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Fiziski tā bija tā pati māksla,
12:30
but the history had changed.
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bet pagātne bija mainījusies.
12:33
I've been focusing now on the visual arts,
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Es pievērsu uzmanību vizuālajām mākslām,
12:35
but I want to give two examples from music.
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taču vēlos minēt divus piemērus no mūzikas.
12:37
This is Joshua Bell, a very famous violinist.
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Lūk, Džošua Bels, ļoti slavens vijolnieks.
12:39
And the Washington Post reporter Gene Weingarten
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„Washington Post” reportieris Džīns Veingartens
12:42
decided to enlist him for an audacious experiment.
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nolēma iesaistīt viņu pārdrošā eksperimentā.
12:45
The question is: How much would people like Joshua Bell,
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Jautājums ir: Cik ļoti cilvēkiem patiktu Džošua Bels,
12:47
the music of Joshua Bell,
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Džošua Bela mūzika,
12:49
if they didn't know they were listening to Joshua Bell?
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ja viņi nezinātu, ka klausās Džošua Belu?
12:53
So he got Joshua Bell to take his million dollar violin
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Tā nu viņš lika Džošua Belam paņemt savu miljons dolāru vijoli
12:56
down to a Washington D.C. subway station
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uz Vašingtonas metro staciju
12:59
and stand in the corner and see how much money he would make.
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un stāvēt stūrī, un skatīties, cik daudz naudas viņš nopelnīs.
13:02
And here's a brief clip of this.
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Lūk, īss videoklips.
13:04
(Violin music)
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(Vijoles mūzika)
13:11
After being there for three-quarters of an hour,
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Esot tur 45 minūtes,
13:13
he made 32 dollars.
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viņš nopelnīja 32 dolārus.
13:16
Not bad. It's also not good.
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Nav slikti. Bet nav arī labi.
13:18
Apparently to really enjoy the music of Joshua Bell,
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Acīmredzot, lai patiešām izbaudītu Džušua Bela mūziku,
13:21
you have to know you're listening to Joshua Bell.
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jums jāzina, ka klausāties Džošua Belu.
13:24
He actually made 20 dollars more than that,
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Viņš īstenībā nopelnīja par 20 dolāriem vairāk,
13:26
but he didn't count it.
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taču tos neieskaitīja.
13:28
Because this woman comes up --
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Jo parādījās kāda sieviete,
13:30
you see at the end of the video -- she comes up.
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viņa redzama video beigās.
13:32
She had heard him at the Library of Congress a few weeks before
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Viņa pirms pāris nedēļām bija viņu dzirdējusi Kongresa bibliotēkā
13:34
at this extravagant black-tie affair.
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šajā ekstravagantajā formālajā pasākumā.
13:37
So she's stunned that he's standing in a subway station.
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Tādēļ viņa ir apstulbusi, ka viņš stāv metro stacijā.
13:40
So she's struck with pity.
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Viņu pārņem ar žēlums.
13:42
She reaches into her purse and hands him a 20.
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Viņa atver savu maku un iedod viņam divdesmitnieku.
13:44
(Laughter)
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(Smiekli)
13:46
(Applause)
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(Aplausi)
13:48
The second example from music
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Otrais piemērs no mūzikas
13:50
is from John Cage's modernist composition,
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ir no Džona Keidža modernisma skaņdarba,
13:52
"4'33"."
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„4'33".”
13:54
As many of you know,
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Kā jau daudzi no jums zina
13:56
this is the composition where the pianist sits at a bench,
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šis ir skaņdarbs, kad pianists sēž uz krēsla,
13:59
opens up the piano
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atver klavieres
14:01
and sits and does nothing for four minutes and 33 seconds --
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un sēž, un 4 minūtes un 33 sekundes neko nedara
14:03
that period of silence.
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šo klusuma brīdi.
14:05
And people have different views on this.
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Cilvēkiem par to ir dažādi viedokļi.
14:07
But what I want to point out
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Es vēlos minēt,
14:09
is you can buy this from iTunes.
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ka to var iegādāties iTunes.
14:11
(Laughter)
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(Smiekli)
14:13
For a dollar 99,
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Par 1 dolāru un 99 centiem
14:15
you can listen to that silence,
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jūs varat klausīties šajā klusumā,
14:17
which is different than other forms of silence.
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kas ir atšķirīgs no pārējiem klusuma veidiem.
14:20
(Laughter)
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(Smiekli)
14:22
Now I've been talking so far about pleasure,
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Līdz šim esmu runājis par baudu,
14:25
but what I want to suggest
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taču vēlos mudināt,
14:27
is that everything I've said applies as well to pain.
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ka viss, ko esmu teicis, tikpat daudz attiecas arī uz sāpēm.
14:30
And how you think about what you're experiencing,
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Tas, kā jūs domājat par to, ko pieredzat,
14:32
your beliefs about the essence of it,
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jūsu pārliecība par tā būtību
14:34
affect how it hurts.
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ietekmē to, kā tas sāp.
14:36
One lovely experiment
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Kādu burvīgu eksperimentu
14:38
was done by Kurt Gray and Dan Wegner.
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veica Kurts Grejs un Dens Vegners.
14:40
What they did was they hooked up Harvard undergraduates
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Viņi pieslēdza Hārvardas pēdējā kursa studentus
14:42
to an electric shock machine.
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elektriskā šoka ierīcei
14:44
And they gave them a series of painful electric shocks.
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un uz tiem iedarbojās ar sāpīga elektriskā šoka triecienu sēriju.
14:47
So it was a series of five painful shocks.
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Tā bija piecu sāpīgu šoku sērija.
14:50
Half of them are told that they're being given the shocks
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Pusei no viņiem pateica, ka šoku deva
14:52
by somebody in another room,
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kāds blakus telpā,
14:54
but the person in the other room doesn't know they're giving them shocks.
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bet cilvēki citā telpā nezināja, ka viņi dod šoku.
14:57
There's no malevolence, they're just pressing a button.
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Tā nebija ļaunprātība, viņi tikai piespieda pogu.
14:59
The first shock is recorded as very painful.
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Pirmais šoks tiek reģistrēts kā ļoti sāpīgs.
15:02
The second shock feels less painful, because you get a bit used to it.
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Otrais šoks ir mazāk sāpīgs, jo jau esat pie tā nedaudz pieradis.
15:05
The third drops, the fourth, the fifth.
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Trešais šoks ir vēl mazāk sāpīgs, ceturtais, piektais.
15:07
The pain gets less.
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Sāpes samazinās.
15:10
In the other condition,
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Citos apstākļos
15:12
they're told that the person in the next room
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viņiem tiek pateikts, ka cilvēks otrā telpā
15:14
is shocking them on purpose -- knows they're shocking them.
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viņus šokē ar nolūku un zina, ka viņi tos šokē.
15:17
The first shock hurts like hell.
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Pirmais šoks ellīgi sāp.
15:19
The second shock hurts just as much,
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Otrais šoks sāp tikpat stipri,
15:21
and the third and the fourth and the fifth.
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un trešais un ceturtais, un piektais.
15:23
It hurts more
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Tas sāp vairāk,
15:25
if you believe somebody is doing it to you on purpose.
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jums ticot, ka kāds to dara ar nolūku.
15:28
The most extreme example of this
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Visgalējākais piemērs
15:31
is that in some cases,
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ir, ka dažos gadījumos
15:33
pain under the right circumstances
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sāpes pareizajos apstākļos
15:35
can transform into pleasure.
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var pārvērsties par baudu.
15:37
Humans have this extraordinarily interesting property
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Cilvēkiem ir neparasti interesanta īpašība,
15:40
that will often seek out low-level doses of pain
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kas bieži meklē zema līmeņa sāpju devas
15:42
in controlled circumstances
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kontrolētos apstākļos
15:44
and take pleasure from it --
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un no tām gūst baudu,
15:46
as in the eating of hot chili peppers
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piemēram, ēdot asus čilli piparus
15:48
and roller coaster rides.
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un braucot ar amerikāņu kalniņiem.
15:51
The point was nicely summarized
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Jautājumu jauki apkopoja
15:53
by the poet John Milton
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dzejnieks Džons Miltons,
15:55
who wrote, "The mind is its own place,
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kurš rakstīja: „Prāts ir pats par sevi,
15:57
and in itself can make a heaven of hell,
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un pats var radīt gan debesis no elles,
15:59
a hell of heaven."
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gan elli no debesīm.”
16:01
And I'll end with that. Thank you.
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Ar to es arī beigšu. Paldies.
16:03
(Applause)
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(Aplausi)
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Paul Bloom - PsychologistPaul Bloom explores some of the most puzzling aspects of human nature, including pleasure, religion, and morality.
Why you should listen
In Paul Bloom’s last book, How Pleasure Works, he explores the often-mysterious enjoyment that people get out of experiences such as sex, food, art, and stories. His latest book, Just Babies, examines the nature and origins of good and evil. How do we decide what's fair and unfair? What is the relationship between emotion and rationality in our judgments of right and wrong? And how much of morality is present at birth? To answer these questions, he and his colleagues at Yale study how babies make moral decisions. (How do you present a moral quandary to a 6-month-old? Through simple, gamelike experiments that yield surprisingly adult-like results.)
Paul Bloom is a passionate teacher of undergraduates, and his popular Introduction to Psychology 110 class has been released to the world through the Open Yale Courses program. He has recently completed a second MOOC, “Moralities of Everyday Life”, that introduced moral psychology to tens of thousands of students. And he also presents his research to a popular audience though articles in The Atlantic, The New Yorker, and The New York Times. Many of the projects he works on are student-initiated, and all of them, he notes, are "strongly interdisciplinary, bringing in theory and research from areas such as cognitive, social, and developmental psychology, evolutionary theory, linguistics, theology and philosophy."
He says: "A growing body of evidence suggests that humans do have a rudimentary moral sense from the very start of life."
Paul Bloom | Speaker | TED.com