TEDWomen 2010
Shirin Neshat: Art in exile
Shirin Neshat:流亡中的艺术
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伊朗出生的艺术家Shirin Neshat探索了成为一名流亡艺术家的矛盾：代言她同胞的声音，但却不能重返故土。在她的艺术中，她用女性强有力的影像探索了伊斯兰革命之前后的变化，追踪了政治上和社会上的巨变。
Shirin Neshat - Iranian visual artist
Shirin Neshat has lived much of her life outside her native Iran. Her photographs and films offer a glimpse of the cultural, religious and political realities that shape the identities of Muslim women worldwide. Full bio
Shirin Neshat has lived much of her life outside her native Iran. Her photographs and films offer a glimpse of the cultural, religious and political realities that shape the identities of Muslim women worldwide. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:15
The story I wanted to share with you today
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今天我要和大家分享的故事
00:17
is my challenge as an Iranian artist,
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是我作为一名伊朗艺术家要面对的挑战，
00:21
as an Iranian woman artist,
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作为一名伊朗女性艺术家，
00:23
as an Iranian woman artist
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作为一名流亡故土的
00:25
living in exile.
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伊朗女性艺术家。
00:28
Well, it has its pluses and minuses.
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这有优缺点。
00:31
On the dark side,
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黑暗的一面是，
00:33
politics doesn't seem to escape people like me.
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政治好似与我们形影不离。
00:36
Every Iranian artist, in one form or another,
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每位伊朗艺术家，各种艺术形式
00:39
is political.
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都有关政治。
00:41
Politics have defined our lives.
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政治定义了我们。
00:44
If you're living in Iran,
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假若你生活在伊朗，
00:46
you're facing censorship, harassment,
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你会面对审查，骚扰，
00:49
arrest, torture --
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逮捕，酷刑--
00:51
at times, execution.
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有时是处决。
00:54
If you're living outside like me,
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假若你像我一样生活在异地，
00:56
you're faced with life in exile --
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你得面对流亡的生活--
00:58
the pain of the longing
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渴望思乡的痛苦
01:00
and the separation from your loved ones
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和你最爱的人们
01:02
and your family.
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和你家人的分离之苦。
01:04
Therefore, we don't find
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因此，我们不会找到
01:06
the moral, emotional,
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道德上的，情感上的，
01:08
psychological and political space
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心理上的和政治上的空间
01:10
to distance ourselves from the reality
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使我们自身逃脱
01:13
of social responsibility.
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这种社会责任的现实。
01:16
Oddly enough,
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奇怪的是，
01:18
an artist such as myself
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像我一样的一位艺术家
01:20
finds herself also in the position of being the voice,
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同时常能找到她自身的本职，成为这种声音的代言，
01:24
the speaker of my people,
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代言我同胞们成为演讲人，
01:27
even if I have, indeed,
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虽然我其实
01:29
no access to my own country.
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没有机会重返故土。
01:32
Also, people like myself,
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另外，像我一样的人们，
01:35
we're fighting two battles on different grounds.
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我们在各地抗争着两场战斗。
01:38
We're being critical of the West,
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我们对西方不满，
01:40
the perception of the West
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不满于西方
01:42
about our identity --
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关于我们身份认同的观点--
01:44
about the image that is constructed about us,
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关于我们自身形象的观点，
01:47
about our women, about our politics,
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关于我们女性，我们政治，
01:50
about our religion.
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和我们宗教的观点。
01:52
We are there to take pride
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我们对这些引以自豪
01:54
and insist on respect.
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坚持得到尊重。
01:56
And at the same time,
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同时，
01:58
we're fighting another battle.
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我们在抗争另一场战斗。
02:00
That is our regime,
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那就是我们的政权，
02:02
our government --
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我们的政府--
02:04
our atrocious government,
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我们残暴的政府，
02:06
[that] has done every crime
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所做的每一件罪行
02:08
in order to stay in power.
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是为了保有政权。
02:11
Our artists are at risk.
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我们艺术家是有风险的。
02:14
We are in a position of danger.
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我们身处危险之中。
02:17
We pose a threat
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我们对政府的统治
02:19
to the order of the government.
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构成威胁。
02:21
But ironically,
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但具有讽刺意味的是，
02:23
this situation
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这种困境
02:25
has empowered all of us,
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给予所有人一种动力，
02:27
because we are considered, as artists,
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因为作为艺术家，我们被认为
02:29
central to the cultural, political,
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是代言伊朗文化上的，政治上的，
02:32
social discourse in Iran.
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社会上的中心话语。
02:34
We are there to inspire, to provoke,
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我们在那儿激励着，唤醒着，
02:37
to mobilize,
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动员着，
02:39
to bring hope to our people.
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并把希望带给我们的同胞。
02:41
We are the reporters of our people,
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我们是我们同胞的记录人，
02:44
and are communicators
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也是与
02:46
to the outside world.
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外界世界联系的沟通者。
02:48
Art is our weapon.
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艺术是我们的武器。
02:51
Culture is a form of resistance.
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文化是一种抵抗形式。
02:54
I envy sometimes the artists of the West
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有时我嫉妒西方的艺术家
02:57
for their freedom of expression.
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因为他们有自由的言论--
02:59
For the fact that they can distance themselves
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因为他们可以远离
03:02
from the question of politics.
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政治问题的事实--
03:04
From the fact that they are only serving one audience,
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事实上他们仅仅服务于一类观众，
03:06
mainly the Western culture.
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主要是西方文化。
03:09
But also, I worry about the West,
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但我也对西方文化感到焦虑，
03:13
because often in this country,
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因为常常在这个国家，
03:15
in this Western world that we have,
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在这个西方世界，我们所有
03:18
culture risks being a form of entertainment.
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文化有成为一种单纯的娱乐的危险。
03:23
Our people depend on our artists,
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我们的同胞依靠我们这些艺术家，
03:26
and culture is beyond communication.
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文化是超越语言的。
03:30
My journey as an artist
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我作为一名艺术家的旅程
03:32
started from a very, very personal place.
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始于一个非常，非常个人化的起点。
03:35
I did not start
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我没一开始
03:37
to make social commentary
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针对我的国家
03:39
about my country.
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发表社会评论。
03:41
The first one that you see in front of you
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呈现在大家面前所看到的第一幅图
03:44
is actually when I first returned to Iran
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实际上是在我第一次重返伊朗
03:46
after being separated for a good 12 years.
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那是在被分离整整12年后。
03:49
It was after the Islamic Revolution
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这是在1979年
03:51
of 1979.
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的伊斯兰革命之后。
03:54
While I was absent from Iran,
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当我不在伊朗时，
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the Islamic Revolution had descended on Iran
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伊斯兰革命席卷着伊朗
04:00
and had entirely transformed the country
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把整个国家
04:02
from Persian to the Islamic culture.
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从波斯文化完全转变为伊斯兰文化。
04:05
I came mainly to be reunited with my family
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我回去主要是为了和我的家庭团聚
04:08
and to reconnect in a way
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重新融入社会
04:10
that I found my place in the society.
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试图发现我在这社会中的定位。
04:12
But instead, I found a country
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与此相反，我发现一个
04:14
that was totally ideological
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完全意识形态
04:16
and that I didn't recognize anymore.
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我都不敢认的国家。
04:19
More so, I became very interested,
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尤其如此，我就变得非常感兴趣，
04:21
as I was facing
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因为我要面对
04:23
my own personal dilemmas and questions,
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我自身个人的困境和问题，
04:25
I became immersed in the study
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我投入到
04:27
of the Islamic Revolution --
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伊斯兰革命的研究中--
04:29
how, indeed,
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的确，
04:31
it had incredibly transformed
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它也不可思议的转变了
04:33
the lives of Iranian women.
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伊朗女性的生活。
04:35
I found the subject of Iranian women
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我发现伊朗女性的话题
04:37
immensely interesting,
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非常有趣，
04:39
in the way the women of Iran, historically,
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在历史上，伊朗女性
04:42
seemed to embody the political transformation.
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似乎代表了政治改革。
04:45
So in a way, by studying a woman,
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所以在某种程度上，研究一位女性，
04:48
you can read the structure and the ideology of the country.
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你能阅读到这个国家的结构和意识形态。
04:52
So I made a group of work
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所以我创造了一组艺术
04:54
that at once faced my own personal questions in life,
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让我立刻直面我自己一生中的个人问题，
04:58
and yet it brought my work into a larger discourse --
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这创作还把我的工作引向了一个较大的谈话--
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the subject of martyrdom,
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殉身的话题，
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the question of those who willingly stand in that intersection
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有关那些心甘情愿地站在
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of love of God, faith,
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上帝之爱，信仰
05:11
but violence and crime and cruelty.
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和残酷，暴力和犯罪的十字路口的女性话题。
05:14
For me, this became incredibly important.
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对我而言，这变得异常重要。
05:17
And yet, I had an unusual position toward this.
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对此，我还有一个异常的角色。
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I was an outsider
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我是一个局外人
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who had come back to Iran to find my place,
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我回到伊朗找寻我所处位置，
05:25
but I was not in a position
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但我不是站在一个位置
05:27
to be critical of the government
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要对政府
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or the ideology of the Islamic Revolution.
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或者伊斯兰革命的意识形态发表不满。
05:33
This changed slowly
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这种变化是慢慢发生的
05:35
as I found my voice
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正如我发展我的观点
05:37
and I discovered things
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我发现
05:39
that I didn't know I would discover.
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我没想到会发现的一些事。
05:41
So my art became slightly more critical.
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所以我的艺术变得更具评论性了。
05:44
My knife became a little sharper.
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我的艺术变得有点尖锐。
05:46
And I fell into a life in exile.
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j我陷入到一种流亡的生活。
05:50
I am a nomadic artist.
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我是一名流浪艺术家。
05:52
I work in Morocco, in Turkey, in Mexico.
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我在摩洛哥，土耳其，墨西哥工作过。
05:55
I go everywhere to make believe it's Iran.
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我所去任何地方使我相信这是伊朗。
05:58
Now I am making films.
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现在我制作电影。
06:00
Last year, I finished a film
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去年，我完成了一部
06:02
called "Women Without Men."
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叫“没有男人的女人”的电影。
06:04
"Women Without Men" returns to history,
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“没有男人的女人”追溯历史，
06:06
but another part of our Iranian history.
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但是另一部分伊朗历史。
06:09
It goes to 1953
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它追溯到1953年
06:11
when American CIA exercised a coup
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当美国中央情报局发动一次政变
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and removed a democratically elected leader,
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撤下了一位民选领导人
06:16
Dr. Mossadegh.
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摩萨德博士。
06:18
The book is written by an Iranian woman,
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这本书由一位伊朗女性写成
06:20
Shahrnush Parsipur.
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Shahrnush Parsipur。
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It's a magical realist novel.
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这是一部魔幻现实主义小说。
06:24
This book is banned,
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这本书遭禁，
06:26
and she spent five years in prison.
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她在狱中待了5年。
06:28
My obsession with this book,
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我对这书情有独钟，
06:30
and the reason I made this into a film,
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我把这本书制成一部电影的原因
06:32
is because it at once was addressing
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是因为它正好就代言了
06:34
the question of being a female --
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作为一名女性的问题--
06:36
traditionally, historically in Iran --
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在伊朗的传统上，历史上--
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and the question of four women
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4位女性的问题
06:41
who are all looking for an idea
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她们都寻求一个
06:43
of change, freedom and democracy --
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变革，自由和民主的想法--
06:46
while the country of Iran, equally, as if another character,
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同样地，同时伊朗作为国家好比是另一个角色，
06:49
also struggled for an idea
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也在为一个
06:51
of freedom and democracy
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自由，民主
06:53
and independence from the foreign interventions.
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脱离外国干预的独立的想法而抗争着。
06:56
I made this film
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我制作这部电影
06:58
because I felt it's important
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因为我感到
07:00
for it to speak to the Westerners
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用它来对西方人
07:02
about our history as a country.
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讲讲我们做为一个国家的历史的重要性。
07:05
That all of you seem to remember Iran
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因为西方所有人似乎只记得
07:07
after the Islamic Revolution.
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发动伊斯兰革命之后的伊朗。
07:09
That Iran was once a secular society,
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因为伊朗曾是一个世俗社会，
07:12
and we had democracy,
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我们曾有民主，
07:14
and this democracy was stolen from us
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这种民主
07:16
by the American government,
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被美国政府，
07:18
by the British government.
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被英国政府从我们的手中夺去。
07:20
This film also speaks to the Iranian people
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这部电影也告诉伊朗人民
07:23
in asking them to return to their history
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让他们重回到他们的历史中
07:25
and look at themselves before they were so Islamicized --
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看看在他们变得如此伊斯兰化之前的他们自身--
07:29
in the way we looked, in the way we played music,
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我们是如何看待自身的，我们所表达的音乐，
07:32
in the way we had intellectual life.
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我们所拥有的精神生活。
07:36
And most of all,
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尤其是，
07:38
in the way that we fought for democracy.
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我们为争取民主进行的斗争。
07:41
These are some of the shots actually from my film.
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这实际上是我电影中的一些镜头场景。
07:44
These are some of the images of the coup.
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这是一些政变的照片。
07:46
And we made this film in Casablanca,
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我们在卡萨布兰卡拍摄这部电影，
07:49
recreating all the shots.
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重新创建所有的镜头场景。
07:51
This film tried to find a balance
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这部电影试图找到一个平衡
07:54
between telling a political story,
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在讲述一个政治事件
07:56
but also a feminine story.
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但也是一个女性故事。
07:58
Being a visual artist, indeed,
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作为一名视觉艺术家，的确，
08:00
I am foremost interested to make art --
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我对创作艺术最感兴趣--
08:03
to make art that transcends
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那些超越了
08:05
politics, religion,
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政治，宗教，
08:07
the question of feminism,
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女权主义的问题的创作艺术，
08:10
and become an important, timeless,
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它变成了一个重要的，永恒的
08:12
universal work of art.
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全球性的艺术作品。
08:14
The challenge I have
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我所遇到的挑战
08:16
is how to do that.
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就是怎样做到这点--
08:18
How to tell a political story but an allegorical story.
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怎样通过一个寓言故事来讲述一个政治事件--
08:21
How to move you with your emotions,
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怎样能动之以情地打动大家，
08:23
but also make your mind work.
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但又让大家对此深入思考。
08:25
These are some of the images
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这是一些图像
08:27
and the characters of the film.
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和电影里的角色。
08:40
Now comes the green movement --
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现在发生了绿色运动--
08:42
the summer of 2009,
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在2009年的夏天，
08:44
as my film is released --
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当我的电影发行--
08:46
the uprising begins in the streets of Tehran.
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起义遍布德黑兰的街头巷角。
08:49
What is unbelievably ironic
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多么令人难以置信的讽刺
08:52
is the period that we tried to depict in the film,
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是我试图在电影中描述的那段时期，
08:55
the cry for democracy
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争取民主
08:57
and social justice,
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和社会公正的呐喊，
08:59
repeats itself now
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现在重新席卷而来
09:01
again in Tehran.
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再一次在德黑兰上演。
09:03
The green movement
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绿色运动
09:05
significantly inspired the world.
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意义深远地激励了整个世界。
09:07
It brought a lot of attention to all those Iranians
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许多的目光都注视到所有这些伊朗人民
09:10
who stand for basic human rights
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他们为基本人权而奋起抗争
09:12
and struggle for democracy.
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为民主而斗争。
09:14
What was most significant for me
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对我最意义重大的
09:16
was, once again,
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是，又一次，
09:18
the presence of the women.
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女性的出现。
09:20
They're absolutely inspirational for me.
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她们对我来说绝对是鼓舞人心的。
09:22
If in the Islamic Revolution,
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假若在伊斯兰革命，
09:24
the images of the woman portrayed
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女性的刻画形象
09:26
were submissive
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是顺从的
09:28
and didn't have a voice,
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没有自身代言，
09:30
now we saw a new idea of feminism
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现在我们看到了女权主义的一个新观点
09:32
in the streets of Tehran --
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遍布德黑兰的大街小巷--
09:35
women who were educated,
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女性们受过教育，
09:37
forward thinking, non-traditional,
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超前思维，非传统，
09:39
sexually open, fearless
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性开放，无所畏惧
09:42
and seriously feminist.
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也是严肃的女权主义者。
09:45
These women and those young men
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这些女性和这些年轻男性
09:48
united Iranians
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联合
09:50
across the world, inside and outside.
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跨越全球的，里应外合的伊朗人。
09:53
I then discovered
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然后我发现
09:55
why I take so much inspiration
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之所以我深受这些伊朗女性
09:57
from Iranian women.
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如此之多的鼓舞。
09:59
That, under all circumstances,
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因为，无论如何，
10:01
they have pushed the boundary.
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她们已经冲破了边界。
10:03
They have confronted the authority.
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她们已经直面面对权威。
10:05
They have broken every rule
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她们打破了所有
10:07
in the smallest and the biggest way.
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大大小小的规矩。
10:09
And once again, they proved themselves.
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再一次地，她们证明了她们自身。
10:11
I stand here to say
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我在这儿想说
10:13
that Iranian women have found a new voice,
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伊朗女性已经有了一种新的代言，
10:16
and their voice is giving me my voice.
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她们的声音给予了我自己的声音。
10:19
And it's a great honor
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作为一位伊朗女性
10:21
to be an Iranian woman and an Iranian artist,
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和一位伊朗艺术家是极大的荣誉，
10:24
even if I have to operate in the West only for now.
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即使我只是在现在不得不在西方来展示我的艺术。
10:28
Thank you so much.
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十分感谢。
10:30
(Applause)
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（掌声）
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Shirin Neshat - Iranian visual artistShirin Neshat has lived much of her life outside her native Iran. Her photographs and films offer a glimpse of the cultural, religious and political realities that shape the identities of Muslim women worldwide.
Why you should listen
Shirin Neshat is among the best-known Persian artists in the Western world. She has lived in the United States, in self-imposed exile from her native Iran, for most of her adult life. This experience, of being caught between two cultures, dominates Neshat’s creative work: each of her pieces offers a glimpse into the complex social, religious and political realities that shape her identity—and the identities of Muslim women worldwide.
Neshat’s provocative photographs, videos and multimedia installations have resonated with the curators of many major international art exhibitions, including the XLVIII Venice Biennale, where she won the top prize in 1999. Her first feature film, Women Without Men, tells the stories of four women struggling to escape oppression in Tehran. It won her the Silver Lion for best director at the 2010 Venice Film Festival.
Shirin Neshat | Speaker | TED.com