TEDWomen 2010
Shirin Neshat: Art in exile
Shirin Neshat：流亡中的藝術
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伊朗裔藝術家Shirin Neshat探索身為“流亡”藝術家的特殊處境：能為同胞喉舌，卻無法回歸故鄉。在作品中，她藉由充滿力量的女性身影，探索伊朗在回教革命前後的政治軌跡與社會變遷。
Shirin Neshat - Iranian visual artist
Shirin Neshat has lived much of her life outside her native Iran. Her photographs and films offer a glimpse of the cultural, religious and political realities that shape the identities of Muslim women worldwide. Full bio
Shirin Neshat has lived much of her life outside her native Iran. Her photographs and films offer a glimpse of the cultural, religious and political realities that shape the identities of Muslim women worldwide. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:15
The story I wanted to share with you today
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今天我想與大家分享的故事
00:17
is my challenge as an Iranian artist,
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是我身爲一名伊朗藝術家所面臨的挑戰，
00:21
as an Iranian woman artist,
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一名伊朗女藝術家，
00:23
as an Iranian woman artist
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一名流亡中的，
00:25
living in exile.
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伊朗女藝術家。
00:28
Well, it has its pluses and minuses.
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好吧，它有它的好處與壞處。
00:31
On the dark side,
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從不好的方面來看，
00:33
politics doesn't seem to escape people like me.
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政治並不會放過像我這樣的人。
00:36
Every Iranian artist, in one form or another,
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每一位伊朗藝術家，不管是哪一種藝術，
00:39
is political.
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都脫離不了政治。
00:41
Politics have defined our lives.
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政治定義了我們的生活。
00:44
If you're living in Iran,
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如果你住在伊朗，
00:46
you're facing censorship, harassment,
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你會受到審查、騷擾
00:49
arrest, torture --
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逮捕、折磨，
00:51
at times, execution.
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甚至死刑。
00:54
If you're living outside like me,
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如果你像我一樣住在國外，
00:56
you're faced with life in exile --
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你就會面臨流亡生活：
00:58
the pain of the longing
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活在“渴望”的痛苦中
01:00
and the separation from your loved ones
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被迫與相愛的人
01:02
and your family.
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以及家人分離
01:04
Therefore, we don't find
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因此，我們不去尋找
01:06
the moral, emotional,
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道德、感情
01:08
psychological and political space
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心理和政治上的空間，
01:10
to distance ourselves from the reality
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好使自己與現實
01:13
of social responsibility.
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和社會責任脫離。
01:16
Oddly enough,
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弔詭的是，
01:18
an artist such as myself
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像我這樣的藝術家
01:20
finds herself also in the position of being the voice,
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發現自己也成了為民喉舌的角色
01:24
the speaker of my people,
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為同胞發聲
01:27
even if I have, indeed,
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即便我真的已經
01:29
no access to my own country.
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無法回到我的國家。
01:32
Also, people like myself,
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而跟我處境相同的人，
01:35
we're fighting two battles on different grounds.
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都在同時參與二場戰爭：
01:38
We're being critical of the West,
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我們既對西方觀點
01:40
the perception of the West
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抱持批判的態度
01:42
about our identity --
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對於西方人眼中的我們，
01:44
about the image that is constructed about us,
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就是由西方觀點所塑造出的，
01:47
about our women, about our politics,
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關於我們的女性、我們的政治，
01:50
about our religion.
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以及我們的宗教等形象。
01:52
We are there to take pride
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在這片戰場上我們要捍衛的是民族驕傲
01:54
and insist on respect.
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並堅持彼此尊重。
01:56
And at the same time,
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而此同時，
01:58
we're fighting another battle.
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我們也在打另一場仗。
02:00
That is our regime,
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對象是伊朗政權，
02:02
our government --
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我們的政府，
02:04
our atrocious government,
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我們殘暴的政府，
02:06
[that] has done every crime
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壞事做盡，
02:08
in order to stay in power.
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只為鞏固政權。
02:11
Our artists are at risk.
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我們的藝術家面臨危難，
02:14
We are in a position of danger.
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處境危險。
02:17
We pose a threat
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我們對於政府而言
02:19
to the order of the government.
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是一種威脅。
02:21
But ironically,
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但諷刺的是，
02:23
this situation
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這種處境
02:25
has empowered all of us,
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反而帶給大家力量。
02:27
because we are considered, as artists,
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因為作為藝術家，我們被視為
02:29
central to the cultural, political,
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是伊朗文化、政治
02:32
social discourse in Iran.
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以及社會輿論的核心。
02:34
We are there to inspire, to provoke,
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在這片戰場上我們志在啓發、鼓舞、
02:37
to mobilize,
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動員、
02:39
to bring hope to our people.
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和帶給人們希望。
02:41
We are the reporters of our people,
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我們報導同胞們的真實情況
02:44
and are communicators
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並做為他們與外界
02:46
to the outside world.
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溝通的橋梁。
02:48
Art is our weapon.
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藝術是我們的武器，
02:51
Culture is a form of resistance.
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文化則是一種抵抗的方式。
02:54
I envy sometimes the artists of the West
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有時候我會嫉妒西方藝術家
02:57
for their freedom of expression.
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因為他們有表達的自由，
02:59
For the fact that they can distance themselves
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因為他們可以把自己抽離出
03:02
from the question of politics.
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政治的議題，
03:04
From the fact that they are only serving one audience,
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並且可以只為特定觀眾服務，
03:06
mainly the Western culture.
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主要是西方文化。
03:09
But also, I worry about the West,
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然而我也為他們擔心，
03:13
because often in this country,
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因為在這個國家，
03:15
in this Western world that we have,
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這個我們身處的西方世界，
03:18
culture risks being a form of entertainment.
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文化面臨淪為一種娛樂的危機。
03:23
Our people depend on our artists,
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我們的人民倚賴我們的藝術家，
03:26
and culture is beyond communication.
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而文化超越溝通。
03:30
My journey as an artist
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我的藝術家生涯
03:32
started from a very, very personal place.
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始於一個非常、非常私人的地方。
03:35
I did not start
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我並非一開始
03:37
to make social commentary
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就試圖評論
03:39
about my country.
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我的國家。
03:41
The first one that you see in front of you
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你們看到的這第一張
03:44
is actually when I first returned to Iran
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其實是我在離開12年後
03:46
after being separated for a good 12 years.
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第一次回到伊朗時所作的。
03:49
It was after the Islamic Revolution
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那是在1979年的
03:51
of 1979.
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回教革命之後
03:54
While I was absent from Iran,
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當我不在伊朗的這段時間，
03:57
the Islamic Revolution had descended on Iran
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回教革命發生，
04:00
and had entirely transformed the country
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使整個國家由
04:02
from Persian to the Islamic culture.
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波斯文化轉變為伊斯蘭文化。
04:05
I came mainly to be reunited with my family
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當時我回去主要為了與家人團聚
04:08
and to reconnect in a way
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並與故鄉文化重新接軌
04:10
that I found my place in the society.
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以期找到自己的社會定位。
04:12
But instead, I found a country
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然而我找到的，
04:14
that was totally ideological
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卻是一個完全以意識形態為主、
04:16
and that I didn't recognize anymore.
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讓我認不出來的國家。
04:19
More so, I became very interested,
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更有甚者，我變得非常關心 －
04:21
as I was facing
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就在我自己也面臨到，
04:23
my own personal dilemmas and questions,
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自我認同的難題和困境時 －
04:25
I became immersed in the study
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我開始埋首研究
04:27
of the Islamic Revolution --
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回教革命
04:29
how, indeed,
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如何
04:31
it had incredibly transformed
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大幅轉變了
04:33
the lives of Iranian women.
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伊朗婦女的生活。
04:35
I found the subject of Iranian women
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我發現這個伊朗婦女的主題
04:37
immensely interesting,
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相當有意思
04:39
in the way the women of Iran, historically,
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在歷史上，伊朗婦女似乎以某種方式
04:42
seemed to embody the political transformation.
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體現了政治的轉變。
04:45
So in a way, by studying a woman,
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因此，透過研究一位婦女，
04:48
you can read the structure and the ideology of the country.
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你可以得知這個國家的結構和意識型態。
04:52
So I made a group of work
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所以我創作了一組作品
04:54
that at once faced my own personal questions in life,
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既處理了我個人對於人生的疑問，
04:58
and yet it brought my work into a larger discourse --
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也將我的作品帶入一個更大的境界 －
05:01
the subject of martyrdom,
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就是這個“殉道”的主題，
05:03
the question of those who willingly stand in that intersection
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解構了那些自願身處在
05:07
of love of God, faith,
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由神的愛和信仰
05:11
but violence and crime and cruelty.
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以及暴力、罪惡和殘酷交織的世界。
05:14
For me, this became incredibly important.
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對我來說，這個相當重要。
05:17
And yet, I had an unusual position toward this.
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然而，我的立場並不一般，
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I was an outsider
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我曾是個局外人，
05:22
who had come back to Iran to find my place,
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過去回到伊朗找尋自己的定位，
05:25
but I was not in a position
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但卻沒有立場
05:27
to be critical of the government
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去批判政府
05:30
or the ideology of the Islamic Revolution.
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或是回教革命包涵的意識形態。
05:33
This changed slowly
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這個情況慢慢改變了
05:35
as I found my voice
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當我找到了我的聲音
05:37
and I discovered things
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並且發現了
05:39
that I didn't know I would discover.
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我以前不知道我會發現的東西。
05:41
So my art became slightly more critical.
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所以我的藝術變得比較具有批判性，
05:44
My knife became a little sharper.
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我的刀變得比較銳利，
05:46
And I fell into a life in exile.
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也開始了流亡的生涯。
05:50
I am a nomadic artist.
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現在我是個流浪藝術家
05:52
I work in Morocco, in Turkey, in Mexico.
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我在摩洛哥、土耳其、墨西哥工作
05:55
I go everywhere to make believe it's Iran.
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我每到一地都把那地想成是伊朗
05:58
Now I am making films.
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現在我製作影片
06:00
Last year, I finished a film
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去年我完成了一部電影，
06:02
called "Women Without Men."
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叫做“沒有男人的女人”。
06:04
"Women Without Men" returns to history,
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“沒有男人的女人”回首歷史，
06:06
but another part of our Iranian history.
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但卻是伊朗歷史的另一部份，
06:09
It goes to 1953
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那是在1953年
06:11
when American CIA exercised a coup
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當時美國中情局發動了一場政變
06:14
and removed a democratically elected leader,
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趕走了一位民選領袖 －
06:16
Dr. Mossadegh.
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慕沙迪博士 （Dr. Mossadegh）
06:18
The book is written by an Iranian woman,
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這本書是由一位伊朗婦女所寫
06:20
Shahrnush Parsipur.
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莎姆什⋄帕西普（Shahmush Parsipur）
06:22
It's a magical realist novel.
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這是本奇妙的寫實小說
06:24
This book is banned,
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不僅書被禁，
06:26
and she spent five years in prison.
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作者也在牢裡蹲了五年。
06:28
My obsession with this book,
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我對這本書著迷，
06:30
and the reason I made this into a film,
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而且還把它拍成電影，
06:32
is because it at once was addressing
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是因為書中同時著墨了
06:34
the question of being a female --
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身為女性，
06:36
traditionally, historically in Iran --
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在伊朗傳統和歷史上自處的問題，
06:39
and the question of four women
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以及四位女性
06:41
who are all looking for an idea
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如何尋找同一個理念 －
06:43
of change, freedom and democracy --
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關於改變、自由、和民主的理念。
06:46
while the country of Iran, equally, as if another character,
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而伊朗這個國家，彷彿也是一個活生生的角色
06:49
also struggled for an idea
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同樣在為一個理念奮鬥 －
06:51
of freedom and democracy
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那就是自由和民主，
06:53
and independence from the foreign interventions.
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以及從國際勢力的干涉中獨立出來。
06:56
I made this film
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我製作這部電影
06:58
because I felt it's important
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是因為我覺得它擔負了
07:00
for it to speak to the Westerners
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向西方世界傳達
07:02
about our history as a country.
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我們國家歷史的重任。
07:05
That all of you seem to remember Iran
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大家對伊朗的記憶，
07:07
after the Islamic Revolution.
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大都停留在回教革命之後，
07:09
That Iran was once a secular society,
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但伊朗曾經也是一個俗世的社會
07:12
and we had democracy,
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我們也曾有民主政治，
07:14
and this democracy was stolen from us
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但這個民主政治卻被
07:16
by the American government,
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美國政府、
07:18
by the British government.
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和英國政府偷走了。
07:20
This film also speaks to the Iranian people
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這部電影同時也跟伊朗人民喊話，
07:23
in asking them to return to their history
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要求他們回首自己的歷史，
07:25
and look at themselves before they were so Islamicized --
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看看曾經不是那麼回教化的自己 －
07:29
in the way we looked, in the way we played music,
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以前我們是怎麼看世界，我們的音樂是怎樣，
07:32
in the way we had intellectual life.
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以及我們從前思想昌明的日子
07:36
And most of all,
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還有最重要的，
07:38
in the way that we fought for democracy.
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是我們曾為民主奮戰。
07:41
These are some of the shots actually from my film.
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這些是從我的電影裡擷取的幾幕，
07:44
These are some of the images of the coup.
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這些是關於政變的一些影像。
07:46
And we made this film in Casablanca,
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我們在卡薩布蘭加拍攝這部電影，
07:49
recreating all the shots.
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以便重塑所有的景物
07:51
This film tried to find a balance
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這部電影試圖找尋一個平衡點
07:54
between telling a political story,
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在敘述一個政治故事的同時，
07:56
but also a feminine story.
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也述說一個關於女性的故事。
07:58
Being a visual artist, indeed,
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作為一個視覺藝術家，
08:00
I am foremost interested to make art --
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我最大的興趣是創作一種藝術
08:03
to make art that transcends
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能夠超脫
08:05
politics, religion,
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政治、宗教，
08:07
the question of feminism,
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以及女性主義的議題，
08:10
and become an important, timeless,
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而成為一個舉足輕重的、永恆的，
08:12
universal work of art.
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普世的藝術作品
08:14
The challenge I have
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我所面臨的挑戰
08:16
is how to do that.
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在於如何做到 －
08:18
How to tell a political story but an allegorical story.
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用譬喻的方式來述說一個政治故事
08:21
How to move you with your emotions,
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以及如何使你們在感動之餘，
08:23
but also make your mind work.
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還能理性地思考。
08:25
These are some of the images
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這些是一些影像
08:27
and the characters of the film.
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和電影裡的角色
08:40
Now comes the green movement --
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現在出現的是綠色運動
08:42
the summer of 2009,
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在2009年的夏天
08:44
as my film is released --
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當我的電影問世時，
08:46
the uprising begins in the streets of Tehran.
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在德黑蘭的街頭，綠色運動正開始
08:49
What is unbelievably ironic
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最諷刺的是，
08:52
is the period that we tried to depict in the film,
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我們在電影裡試圖描述的那段時期
08:55
the cry for democracy
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那段呼求民主
08:57
and social justice,
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和社會正義的時期，
08:59
repeats itself now
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正重複上演
09:01
again in Tehran.
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就在德黑蘭。
09:03
The green movement
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那場綠色運動
09:05
significantly inspired the world.
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大大啓迪了整個世界
09:07
It brought a lot of attention to all those Iranians
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許多人注意到了那些
09:10
who stand for basic human rights
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為人權挺身而出
09:12
and struggle for democracy.
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和為民主奮戰的伊朗人民
09:14
What was most significant for me
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而對我意義最大的，
09:16
was, once again,
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又再一次的，
09:18
the presence of the women.
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是女性的身影。
09:20
They're absolutely inspirational for me.
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她們真是我的靈感，
09:22
If in the Islamic Revolution,
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如果說在回教革命中
09:24
the images of the woman portrayed
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對女性的描繪
09:26
were submissive
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是柔順的
09:28
and didn't have a voice,
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是無聲的
09:30
now we saw a new idea of feminism
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那我們現在看到的是女性的新面貌
09:32
in the streets of Tehran --
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在德黑蘭的街頭
09:35
women who were educated,
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受過教育的女性，
09:37
forward thinking, non-traditional,
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思想前瞻，毫不傳統
09:39
sexually open, fearless
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大膽開放，絲毫無懼
09:42
and seriously feminist.
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而且絕對擁護女性主義
09:45
These women and those young men
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這些女性和那些年輕男性
09:48
united Iranians
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整合了伊朗人民
09:50
across the world, inside and outside.
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無論是在國內、國外、還是散居世界各地
09:53
I then discovered
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然後我發現了，
09:55
why I take so much inspiration
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為何我的靈感大都
09:57
from Iranian women.
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由伊朗女性而來。
09:59
That, under all circumstances,
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因為不管身處何種境地，
10:01
they have pushed the boundary.
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她們都敢於打破藩籬，
10:03
They have confronted the authority.
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挑戰權威，
10:05
They have broken every rule
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不按牌理出牌，
10:07
in the smallest and the biggest way.
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無論這改變是小還是大。
10:09
And once again, they proved themselves.
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而且又一次的，她們證明了自己。
10:11
I stand here to say
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我在這裡要說，
10:13
that Iranian women have found a new voice,
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伊朗婦女已經找到了新聲音
10:16
and their voice is giving me my voice.
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她們的聲音造就了我的聲音
10:19
And it's a great honor
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這是極大的榮幸
10:21
to be an Iranian woman and an Iranian artist,
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身為一位伊朗女性和伊朗藝術家
10:24
even if I have to operate in the West only for now.
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雖然我現在必需在西方世界工作。
10:28
Thank you so much.
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非常謝謝大家。
10:30
(Applause)
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（掌聲）
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Shirin Neshat - Iranian visual artistShirin Neshat has lived much of her life outside her native Iran. Her photographs and films offer a glimpse of the cultural, religious and political realities that shape the identities of Muslim women worldwide.
Why you should listen
Shirin Neshat is among the best-known Persian artists in the Western world. She has lived in the United States, in self-imposed exile from her native Iran, for most of her adult life. This experience, of being caught between two cultures, dominates Neshat’s creative work: each of her pieces offers a glimpse into the complex social, religious and political realities that shape her identity—and the identities of Muslim women worldwide.
Neshat’s provocative photographs, videos and multimedia installations have resonated with the curators of many major international art exhibitions, including the XLVIII Venice Biennale, where she won the top prize in 1999. Her first feature film, Women Without Men, tells the stories of four women struggling to escape oppression in Tehran. It won her the Silver Lion for best director at the 2010 Venice Film Festival.
Shirin Neshat | Speaker | TED.com