TED2010
John Kasaona: How poachers became caretakers
约翰.卡萨奥纳:从偷猎者到保护者
Filmed:
Readability: 4
398,113 views
在他的家乡纳米比亚，约翰.卡萨奥纳开创了保护濒危动物的新方法：让附近的村民（包括原来的偷猎者）来保护它们。这个方法取得了很好的效果。
John Kasaona - Conservationist
John Kasaona is a pioneer of community-based conservation -- working with the people who use and live on fragile land to enlist them in protecting it. Full bio
John Kasaona is a pioneer of community-based conservation -- working with the people who use and live on fragile land to enlist them in protecting it. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:16
In Africa we say,
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在非洲，我们说：
00:18
"God gave the white man a watch
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“上帝给了白人一块手表，
00:21
and gave the black man time."
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却给了黑人时间。
00:23
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
00:27
I think, how is it possible
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我想，怎么可能
00:29
for a man with so much time
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让人用这么长时间
00:31
to tell his story in 18 minutes?
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在18分钟内讲完他的故事。
00:33
I think it will be quite a challenge for me.
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这对我真是个挑战。
00:36
Most African stories these days,
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现在大家讨论的大部分关于非洲的事情
00:38
they talk about famine,
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都是饥饿、
00:40
HIV and AIDS,
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艾滋病、
00:42
poverty or war.
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贫穷或者战争。
00:45
But my story that I would like to share with you today
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但今天我要与大家分享的故事
00:47
is the one about success.
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是关于成功的。
00:50
It is about a country
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是关于
00:52
in the southwest of Africa
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一个位于非洲西南部的国家
00:55
called Namibia.
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叫做纳米比亚。
00:57
Namibia has got 2.1 million people,
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纳米比亚的人口有210万，
01:01
but it is only twice the size of California.
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但国土面积只有两个加利福尼亚那么大。
01:05
I come from a region
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我来自
01:07
in the remote northwest part of the country.
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纳米比亚西北部的一个偏远地区，
01:10
It's called Kunene region.
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叫做库内内。
01:12
And in the center of Kunene region
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位于库内内中部
01:14
is the village of Sesfontein. This is where I was born.
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有一个叫Sesfontain的村子。这是我出生的地方。
01:17
This is where I'm coming from.
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我就从那里来的。
01:19
Most people that are following the story
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大部分人因为
01:21
of Angelina Jolie
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安吉丽娜.朱莉
01:23
and Brad Pitt
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和布拉德.皮特的原因
01:25
will know where Namibia is.
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知道了纳米比亚在哪里。
01:28
They love Namibia
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他们喜爱纳米比亚
01:30
for its beautiful dunes,
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那美丽的沙丘，
01:32
that are even taller
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甚至比
01:34
than the Empire State Building.
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帝国大厦还要高。
01:38
Wind and time have twisted our landscape
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风力和时间将我们的地貌
01:42
into very strange shapes,
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改变成非常奇特的形状。
01:45
and these shapes are speckled with wildlife
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而这些地形让野生动物们
01:48
that has become so adapted
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变得如此适应
01:50
to this harsh and strange land.
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这恶劣而奇特的土地。
01:53
I'm a Himba.
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我是辛巴族人。
01:55
You might wonder, why are you wearing these Western clothes?
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你可能会想，你为什么穿着西方人的衣服？
01:59
I'm a Himba and Namibian.
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我是辛巴族人，也是纳米比亚人。
02:01
A Himba is one of the 29
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辛巴族是纳米比亚29个
02:03
ethnic groups in Namibia.
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民族之一。
02:05
We live a very traditional lifestyle.
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我们有自己传统的生活方式。
02:09
I grew up herding,
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我放牧长大，
02:11
looking after our livestock --
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饲养家畜——
02:13
goats, sheep and cattle.
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山羊、绵羊和牛。
02:16
And one day,
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有一天，
02:19
my father actually took me into the bush.
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我父亲带我去丛林。
02:21
He said, "John,
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他说：“约翰，
02:23
I want you to become a good herder.
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我想让你成为一个优秀的牧人。
02:26
Boy, if you are looking after our livestock
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孩子，如果你在照看家畜的时候
02:29
and you see a cheetah
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碰到一只猎豹
02:31
eating our goat --
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在吃我们的山羊，
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cheetah is very nervous --
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猎豹其实是很紧张的。
02:35
just walk up to it.
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你只要走近它，
02:37
Walk up to it and smack it on the backside."
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走近它然后从背后狠狠把它打到。”
02:40
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
02:42
"And he will let go of the goat
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“它就会放了山羊
02:44
and run off."
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然后跑掉。”
02:46
But then he said,
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然后他又说，
02:49
"Boy, if you run into a lion,
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“孩子，如果你碰到一头狮子，
02:54
don't move.
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不要动。
02:56
Don't move. Stand your ground.
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千万不要动。站在那。
02:59
Puff up and just look it in the eye
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沉住气，就看着它的眼睛，
03:02
and it may not want to fight you."
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它可能并不想和你打架。”
03:05
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
03:09
But then, he said,
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接着，他说道，
03:11
"If you see a leopard,
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“如果你看到一只金钱豹，
03:16
boy, you better run like hell."
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孩子，你最好撒腿就跑。”
03:19
(Laughter)
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（笑声)
03:23
"Imagine you run faster than those goats you are looking after."
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“想象你比养的那些所有羊跑得都快。”
03:26
In this way --
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以这种方式——
03:28
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
03:31
In this way, I actually started to learn about nature.
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以这种方式，我真正开始了解自然。
03:35
In addition to being an ordinary Namibian
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除了作为一个普通的纳米比亚人，
03:38
and in addition to being a Himba
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除了作为一个辛巴族人，
03:40
I'm also a trained conservationist.
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我还是一名自然资源保护者。
03:43
And it is very important if you are in the field
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在大自然中，很重要的是
03:46
to know what to confront
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你要知道要面对什么
03:48
and what to run from.
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和逃离什么。
03:51
I was born in 1971.
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我出生于1971年。
03:53
We lived under apartheid regime.
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曾经生活在种族隔离体制下，
03:57
The whites could farm, graze
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白人可以随意地种地、放牧
04:00
and hunt as they wished,
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和打猎，
04:02
but we black, we were not regarded as responsible
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但是我们黑人，我们是不被容许
04:05
to use wildlife.
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接触野生动物的。
04:07
Whenever we tried to hunt,
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当我们想要去打猎时，
04:09
we were called poachers.
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我们被叫做偷猎的人。
04:11
And as a result, we were fined and locked up in jail.
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结果，我们被罚款还被关进监牢。
04:16
Between 1966 and 1990,
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在1966年到1990年间，
04:19
the U.S. and Soviet interests
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美国与苏联
04:22
fought for control over my country.
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为争夺对我国的控制权而发生战争。
04:25
And you know, during war time,
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在战争时期，
04:27
there are militaries, armies, that are moving around.
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到处都是军队和军人。
04:30
And the army hunted for valuable rhino horns
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军人捕猎犀牛，要猎取珍贵的犀牛角
04:33
and tusks.
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和象牙。
04:35
They could sell these things for anything between
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他们可以卖到
04:38
$5,000 a kilo.
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一公斤5000美元。
04:40
During the same year
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在同一年，
04:42
almost every Himba had a rifle.
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几乎每个辛巴族人都有一支来复枪。
04:45
Because it was wartime,
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因为是在战争年代，
04:47
the British .303 rifle
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英式.303来复枪
04:49
was just all over the whole country.
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遍布整个国家。
04:53
Then in the same time, around 1980,
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同时，在1980年前后，
04:55
we had a very big drought.
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我们遭受了非常严重的干旱。
04:58
It killed almost everything that was left.
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几乎所有剩下的生物都死亡了。
05:01
Our livestock was
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我们的牲畜
05:03
almost at the brink of extinction,
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几乎濒临灭绝，
05:05
protected as well.
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无法保护。
05:07
We were hungry.
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我们非常饥饿。
05:09
I remember a night
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我记得有一天晚上，
05:11
when a hungry leopard
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一头饿极了的美洲豹
05:13
went into the house
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窜进
05:15
of one of our neighbors
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一个邻居的房子
05:17
and took a sleeping child out of the bed.
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叼走了正在床上睡觉的孩子。
05:19
It's a very sad story.
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实在太惨了。
05:22
But even today,
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直到今天，
05:24
that memory is still in people's minds.
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人们还记得这场惨剧。
05:26
They can pinpoint the exact location
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可以准确指出
05:28
where this all happened.
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惨剧发生的确切地点。
05:31
And then, in the same year,
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在同一年，
05:33
we almost lost everything.
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我们几乎失去了一切。
05:36
And my father said, "Why don't you just go to school?"
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我父亲说，“为什么你不去学校呢？”
05:40
And they sent me off to school, just to get busy somewhere there.
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然后他们把我送进学校，只是为了让我忙碌起来。
05:43
And the year I went to school,
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那年我去了学校读书，
05:45
my father actually got a job with a non-governmental organization
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我父亲在一个叫做
05:48
called IRDNC, Integrated Rural Development and Nature Conservation.
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IRDNC(农村综合发展与自然保护）的非政府组织机构找到一份工作。
05:52
They actually spend a lot of time a year in the communities.
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他们每年要在各个部落花大量时间的工作。
05:56
They were trusted by the local communities
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当地部落都很信任他们，
05:59
like our leader, Joshua Kangombe.
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像我们部落的首领，Joshua Kangombe.
06:02
Joshua Kangombe saw what was happening:
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Joshua Kangombe目睹了所有发生的一切：
06:04
wildlife disappearing,
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野生动物正在消失、
06:06
poaching was skyrocketing,
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偷猎猖獗、
06:09
and the situation seemed very hopeless.
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情况看起来那么无望。
06:12
Death and despair surrounded Joshua
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死亡与绝望的情绪在Joshua
06:15
and our entire communities.
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和所有的部落周围蔓延。
06:18
But then, the people from IRDNC proposed to Joshua:
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后来，IRDNC的人给Joshua提议说：
06:23
What if we pay people that you trust
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不如我掏钱让你信任的人
06:27
to look after wildlife?
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去保护野生动物，怎么样？
06:30
Do you have anybody in your communities, or people,
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部落里有没有
06:33
that know the bush very well
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非常了解丛林
06:35
and that know wildlife very well?
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也非常了解野生动物的人？
06:38
The headman said: "Yes. Our poachers."
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首领说：“有啊。我们的偷猎手。”
06:42
"Eh? The poachers?"
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“啊？偷猎手？”
06:44
"Yes. Our poachers."
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“是的。我们的偷猎手。”™
06:46
And that was my father.
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那就是我父亲。
06:49
My father has been a poacher for quite a long time.
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我父亲当偷猎手很长时间了，
06:53
Instead of shooting poachers dead
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IRDNC没有
06:56
like they were doing elsewhere in Africa,
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像在非洲其他地方那样去惩罚偷猎手，
06:59
IRDNC has helped men reclaim their abilities
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而是帮助他们重新找回
07:04
to manage their peoples
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管理自己人民的能力
07:06
and their rights to own and manage wildlife.
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和拥有与管理野生动物的权利。
07:10
And thus, as people started feeling ownership over wildlife,
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后来，当人们开始感觉到有了野生动物的拥有权，
07:14
wildlife numbers started coming back,
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野生动物的数量开始回升，
07:17
and that's actually becoming a foundation for conservation in Namibia.
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这其实成为纳米比亚保护区的一个根基。
07:22
With independence, the whole approach of community getting involved
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拥有了独立，整个部落所做的努力
07:25
was embraced by our new government.
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得到了新政府的拥护。
07:28
Three things that actually help to build on this foundation:
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有三件事情真正对建立这个根基起了帮助作用
07:31
The very first one is
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首先是
07:33
honoring of tradition and being open to new ideas.
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以传统为荣并接纳新观念。
07:37
Here is our tradition:
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这是我们的传统。
07:39
At every Himba village, there is a sacred fire.
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在每一个辛巴族村子，都会点燃圣火。
07:43
And at this sacred fire, the spirit of our ancestors
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圣火传承着我们祖先的精神，
07:46
speak through the headman
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通过部落首领传达给我们，
07:49
and advise us where to get water,
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建议我们去哪里取水、
07:52
where to get grazings,
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哪里放牧、
07:54
and where to go and hunt.
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到哪里打猎。
07:57
And I think this is the best way of regulating ourselves
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我认为这是让我们
08:00
on the environment.
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根据环境管理自己的最好方法。
08:03
And here are the new ideas.
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这里有些新的方法。
08:06
Transporting rhinos using helicopters
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用直升机运送犀牛。
08:09
I think is much easier
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我认为这比
08:11
than talking through a spirit that you can't see, isn't it?
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看不见的精神的传达要简单多了，对吧？
08:14
And these things we were taught by outsiders.
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这些是外来人教我们的。
08:17
We learned these things from outsiders.
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我们从外人那里学到的这些。
08:20
We needed new boundaries to describe our traditional lands;
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我们需要新的方法来描述我们传统的土地；
08:24
we needed to learn more things like GPS
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我们要学习更多，像GPS，
08:28
just to see whether --
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看看GPS
08:31
can GPS really reflect the true reflection of the land
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是否真的能真实反映出这片土地
08:34
or is this just a thing made somewhere in the West?
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或者它仅仅只是西方国家某个地方造出来的一个东西？
08:37
And we then wanted to see whether we can match our
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然后我们还想看看
08:41
ancestral maps with digital maps made somewhere in the world.
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我们祖传的地图能不能和世界某个地方造出来的数字地图相匹配。
08:45
And through this,
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通过这些，
08:48
we actually started realizing our dreams,
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我们开始认识到我们的梦想
08:52
and we maintained honoring our traditions
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和我们一直保持的引以为傲的传统，
08:55
but we were still open to new ideas.
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但我们仍然接纳新观念。
08:57
The second element is that we wanted to have a life,
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第二件事是我们想要一种生活，
09:00
a better life where we can benefit through many things.
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一种更好的生活方式我们可以从中获益。
09:03
Most poachers, like my father,
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大部分的偷猎者，像我父亲，
09:07
were people from our own community.
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都是自己部落的人。
09:10
They were not people from outside.
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不是外来人。
09:12
These were our own people.
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他们都是自己人。
09:14
And sometimes, once they were caught,
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有时候当他们被抓到了，
09:17
they were treated with respect, brought back into the communities
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大家也会尊重他们，把他们带回部落，
09:20
and they were made part of the bigger dreams.
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他们是更远大梦想的一部分。
09:23
The best one, like my father -- I'm not campaigning for my father --
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最好的是，像我父亲——我可不是我父亲的同伙——
09:26
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
09:28
they were put in charge to stop others from poaching.
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他们被委以责任，负责让其他人停止偷猎。
09:32
And when this thing started going on,
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随着事情的进展，
09:35
we started becoming one community,
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我们开始变成一个部落；
09:38
renewing our connection to nature.
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我们知道我们与大自然相连。
09:40
And that was a very strong thing in Namibia.
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这在纳米比亚是非常非常重要的事情。
09:46
The last element that actually helped develop these things
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最后一件对这些起到帮助的事情
09:49
was the partnerships.
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是合作伙伴。
09:51
Our government has given legal status over our traditional lands.
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政府对我们的传统土地给予合法权利。
09:56
The other partners that we have got
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其他合作伙伴
09:59
is business communities.
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是商业组织。
10:01
Business communities helped bring Namibia onto the world map
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商业组织帮助纳米比亚进入世界地图，
10:06
and they have also helped make wildlife
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而且他们还帮助将荒野
10:09
a very valuable land use like any other land uses
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开发成像其他土地一样非常有价值的土地，
10:14
such as agriculture.
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例如农耕。
10:16
And most of my conservation colleagues today
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今天大部分
10:19
that you find in Namibia
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纳米比亚保护区的同事
10:21
have been trained through the initiative,
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都受到过
10:23
through the involvement of World Wildlife Fund
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世界野生动物基金会的
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in the most up-to-date conservation practices.
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最先进的保护区培训练习。
10:29
They have also given funding for two decades
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他们已经为
10:32
to this whole program.
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整个项目提供了20年的基金。
10:35
And so far, with the support of World Wildlife Fund,
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到目前为止，在世界野生动物基金会的支持下，
10:38
we've been able to scale up the very small programs
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我们能将非常小型的项目
10:41
to national programs today.
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做成国家级的大项目。
10:43
Namibia ... or Sesfontein
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纳米比亚......或者Sesfontein
10:46
was no more an isolated village somewhere,
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不再是一个孤立的小村庄，
10:49
hidden away in Namibia.
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躲在纳米比亚的一个小角落。
10:52
With these assets we are now part of the global village.
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我们拥有这些资产，我们现在是地球村的一分子。
10:55
Thirty years have passed
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从我父亲的第一份部落保安工作
10:58
since my father's first job as a community game guard.
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到现在已过去30年。
11:02
It's very unfortunate that he passed away and he cannot see the success
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很遗憾他去世了，没能看到今天
11:06
as I and my children see it today.
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我和我的孩子们看到的成功。
11:09
When I finished school in 1995,
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我1995年从学校毕业时，
11:11
there were only 20 lions in the entire Northwest -- in our area.
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我们那里，整个西北地区只有20头狮子。
11:16
But today, there are more than 130 lions.
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而现在，已经超过130头。
11:22
(Applause)
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（掌声）
11:28
So please, if you go to Namibia,
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所以，如果大家去纳米比亚，
11:30
make sure that you stay in the tents.
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晚上一定要呆在帐篷里，
11:32
Don't walk out at night!
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不要在外面乱跑！
11:34
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
11:35
The black rhino -- they were almost extinct in 1982.
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黑犀牛——在1982年几乎灭绝，
11:40
But today, Kunene has the largest concentration of black rhino --
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但现在，Kunene是世界上最大的
11:44
free-roaming black rhinos -- in the world.
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黑犀牛自由集居地。
11:47
This is outside the protected area.
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这是在保护区以外。
11:50
(Applause)
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（掌声）
11:53
The leopard -- they are now in big numbers
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美洲豹——它们现在数量很大
11:57
but they are now far away from our village,
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但是它们在远离村庄的地方，
11:59
because the natural plain has multiplied,
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因为自然平原面积成倍增长，
12:02
like zebras, springboks and everything.
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还有像斑马、跳羚等动物的数量也成倍增长。
12:05
They stay very much far away
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它们生活的地方很远
12:08
because this other thing has multiplied
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因为其他事物都在成倍增长，
12:10
from less than a thousand to tens of thousands of animals.
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动物从不到一千只增长到数万只。
12:14
What started as very small,
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而且，刚开始范围很小，
12:18
community rangers getting community involved,
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部落与部落加入，
12:21
has now grown into something that we call conservancies.
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现在范围扩大，我们叫做保护协会。
12:25
Conservancies are legally instituted institutions
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保护协会是
12:31
by the government,
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政府批准的合法组织，
12:33
and these are run by the communities themselves, for their benefit.
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而且是由各个部落为自身利益自己管理。
12:36
Today, we have got 60 conservancies
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现在，我们有60个保护协会
12:39
that manage and protect over 13 million hectares
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管理和保护着
12:43
of land in Namibia.
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纳米比亚1300多万亩土地。
12:46
We have already reshaped conservation in the entire country.
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我们已经让整个国家的保护区变成新的摸样。
12:51
Nowhere else in the world
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世界上没有任何地方
12:53
has community-adopted conservation at this scale.
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的部落管理保护区能有如此规模。
12:57
(Applause)
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（掌声）
13:02
In 2008, conservancy generated 5.7 million dollars.
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2008年，保护协会创收五百七十万美元。
13:07
This is our new economy --
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这是我们新的经济——
13:10
an economy based on the respect of our natural resources.
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一个建立在尊重自己自然资源上的经济形式。
13:13
And we are able to use this money for many things:
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而且，我们能用这些钱做很多事。
13:16
Very importantly, we put it in education.
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很重要的，我们把钱用于发展教育。
13:19
Secondly, we put it for infrastructure. Food.
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再者，我们把钱用于基础设施建设。食物。
13:22
Very important as well -- we invest this money in AIDS and HIV education.
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还有很重要的一点——我们把钱投资于艾滋病教育。
13:27
You know that Africa is being affected by these viruses.
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大家也知道这些病毒对非洲造成了巨大的影响。
13:31
And this is the good news from Africa
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这项成就是来自于非洲的好消息
13:35
that we have to shout from the rooftops.
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所以我们要站在屋顶上大声宣布。
13:38
(Applause)
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（掌声）
13:45
And now, what the world really needs
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现在，世界真正需要的是
13:49
is for you to help me and our partners
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你来帮助我和我们的合作伙伴
13:56
take some of what we have learned in Namibia
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将我们在纳米比亚学到的东西
14:00
to other places with similar problems:
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带到其他有类似问题的地方：
14:04
places like Mongolia,
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像蒙古，
14:08
or even in your own backyards,
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甚至是你自家的后院，
14:12
the Northern Great Plains,
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北部大平原，
14:15
where buffalo and other animals have suffered
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那里野牛和其他动物也遭受了同样的境遇，
14:18
and many communities are in decline.
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很多部落也在衰落。
14:21
I like that one:
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我还喜欢那个。
14:24
Namibia serving as a model to Africa,
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纳米比亚是非洲的榜样，
14:28
and Africa serving as a model to the United States.
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非洲是美国的榜样。
14:33
(Applause)
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（掌声）
14:41
We were successful in Namibia
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我们在纳米比亚做得很成功，
14:43
because we dreamed of a future
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因为我们梦想的未来
14:46
that was much more than just a healthy wildlife.
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绝不仅仅只是一个健康的野生世界。
14:51
We knew conservation would fail
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我们知道
14:55
if it doesn't work to improve the lives of the local communities.
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如果不改善当地部落的生活条件，保护区就将失败。
15:02
So, come and talk to me about Namibia,
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所以，来跟我聊聊吧，谈谈纳米比亚，
15:07
and better yet, come to Namibia
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更好的是，来纳米比亚
15:10
and see for yourself how we have done it.
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亲眼看看我们是怎么做到的。
15:12
And please, do visit our website
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请登录我们的网站
15:15
to learn more and see how you can help CBNRM
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更多地了解，看怎样能帮助
15:18
in Africa and across the world.
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非洲的CBNRM和整个世界。
15:21
Thank you very much.
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非常感谢。
15:24
(Applause)
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（掌声）
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
John Kasaona - ConservationistJohn Kasaona is a pioneer of community-based conservation -- working with the people who use and live on fragile land to enlist them in protecting it.
Why you should listen
John Kasaona is a leader in the drive to reinvent conservation in Namibia -- turning poachers into protectors of species. It’s a standard nature-documentary scenario: a pristine animal habitat under constant threat by the people who live there, hunting, camping, setting fires. But John Kasaona knows there is a better way to see this relationship between people and environment. As the assistant director for the Integrated Rural Development and Nature Conservation (IRDNC) , Kasaona works on ways to improve the lives of rural people in Namibia by involving them in the management of the lands they live on -- and the species that live there with them.
Kasanoa's Community-Based Natural Resource Management (CBNRM) program helps rural villages set up communal conservancies, which manage and use local natural resources in a sustainable manner. Essentially, it's about restoring the balance of land and people to that of pre-colonial times, and allowing the people with the most interest in the survival of their environment to have control of it. His work was featured in the recent film Milking the Rhino.
The World Wildlife Fund has set up a portal for TEDsters to help in John Kasaona's work. Learn more >>
John Kasaona | Speaker | TED.com