TED2010
John Kasaona: How poachers became caretakers
John Kasaona: 從盜獵者轉變為管理者
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在他的本土納米比亞, John Kasaona發明了一種創新的方法來保護面臨決種危機的動物: 給與鄰近的村民(包括盜獵者)保護牠們的責任. 而且這個方法是可行的.
John Kasaona - Conservationist
John Kasaona is a pioneer of community-based conservation -- working with the people who use and live on fragile land to enlist them in protecting it. Full bio
John Kasaona is a pioneer of community-based conservation -- working with the people who use and live on fragile land to enlist them in protecting it. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:16
In Africa we say,
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在非洲 我們說
00:18
"God gave the white man a watch
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“上帝給白種人手錶
00:21
and gave the black man time."
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給黑人時間”
00:23
(Laughter)
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（笑）
00:27
I think, how is it possible
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我想, 這似乎是一件不可能的事
00:29
for a man with so much time
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讓一個有那麼多時間的人
00:31
to tell his story in 18 minutes?
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在18分鐘內把一個故事說完
00:33
I think it will be quite a challenge for me.
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對我來說是一個挑戰
00:36
Most African stories these days,
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近來大部份發生在非洲的故事
00:38
they talk about famine,
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大家都繞著飢荒
00:40
HIV and AIDS,
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人體免疫缺乏病毒和愛滋病,
00:42
poverty or war.
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貧窮或是戰爭這些話題打轉
00:45
But my story that I would like to share with you today
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但是我今天要跟你們分享的
00:47
is the one about success.
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是關於成功的一個故事
00:50
It is about a country
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這是關於一個國家
00:52
in the southwest of Africa
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在非洲的西南方
00:55
called Namibia.
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名叫納米比亞
00:57
Namibia has got 2.1 million people,
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納米比亞共有兩百一十萬人,
01:01
but it is only twice the size of California.
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但是只有加州的兩倍大
01:05
I come from a region
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我來自一個偏遠地區
01:07
in the remote northwest part of the country.
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在我的國家的西北邊
01:10
It's called Kunene region.
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在一個叫做Kunene的地區
01:12
And in the center of Kunene region
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在Kunene區的中心
01:14
is the village of Sesfontein. This is where I was born.
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有一個村莊叫做Sesfontain.這是我出生的地方.
01:17
This is where I'm coming from.
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我來自這個地區.
01:19
Most people that are following the story
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大部份有在注意
01:21
of Angelina Jolie
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安潔莉娜裘莉
01:23
and Brad Pitt
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和布萊得彼特的人
01:25
will know where Namibia is.
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就會知道納米比亞
01:28
They love Namibia
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他們喜愛納米比亞
01:30
for its beautiful dunes,
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因為它的美麗沙丘
01:32
that are even taller
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這些沙丘
01:34
than the Empire State Building.
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比帝國大廈還高
01:38
Wind and time have twisted our landscape
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風和時間塑造了我們的地景
01:42
into very strange shapes,
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成為奇特的形狀
01:45
and these shapes are speckled with wildlife
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野生動物妝點這些形體
01:48
that has become so adapted
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這些野生動物變成適應了
01:50
to this harsh and strange land.
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這些嚴峻和奇特的地景
01:53
I'm a Himba.
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我是Himba人
01:55
You might wonder, why are you wearing these Western clothes?
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你可能會猜想,為甚麼你穿著西化?
01:59
I'm a Himba and Namibian.
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我是Himba和納米比亞人
02:01
A Himba is one of the 29
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Himba是納米比亞29個
02:03
ethnic groups in Namibia.
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種族中的一種
02:05
We live a very traditional lifestyle.
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我們過著一種非常傳統的生活方式
02:09
I grew up herding,
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我是放牧長大的
02:11
looking after our livestock --
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照顧我們的家畜 --
02:13
goats, sheep and cattle.
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山羊, 綿羊和牛
02:16
And one day,
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有一天,
02:19
my father actually took me into the bush.
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我父親帶我到荒野中
02:21
He said, "John,
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對我說, " John
02:23
I want you to become a good herder.
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我希望你變成一個好牧者
02:26
Boy, if you are looking after our livestock
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孩子, 如果你正照顧著我們的牲畜
02:29
and you see a cheetah
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看到一隻印度豹
02:31
eating our goat --
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正在吃我們的山羊
02:33
cheetah is very nervous --
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印度豹是非常緊張的,
02:35
just walk up to it.
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你就上前走去
02:37
Walk up to it and smack it on the backside."
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上前走去然後在牠的背後打一下"
02:40
(Laughter)
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(笑）
02:42
"And he will let go of the goat
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牠會放走那隻山羊
02:44
and run off."
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然後跑掉 "
02:46
But then he said,
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然後他說,
02:49
"Boy, if you run into a lion,
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“孩子, 如果你遇到一隻獅子,
02:54
don't move.
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不要動.
02:56
Don't move. Stand your ground.
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不要動. 穩穩的站好.
02:59
Puff up and just look it in the eye
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帶著傲氣的凝視著牠的眼睛
03:02
and it may not want to fight you."
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這樣牠可能不想跟你打架 "
03:05
(Laughter)
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(笑）
03:09
But then, he said,
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然後, 他說,
03:11
"If you see a leopard,
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“ 如果你看到一隻豹,
03:16
boy, you better run like hell."
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孩子, 你最好趕快跑 "
03:19
(Laughter)
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(笑）
03:23
"Imagine you run faster than those goats you are looking after."
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“ 想像你跑的比你照顧的那些山羊還快 "
03:26
In this way --
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在這樣的環境下 --
03:28
(Laughter)
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(笑）
03:31
In this way, I actually started to learn about nature.
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在這樣的環境下, 我開始學習甚麼是自然.
03:35
In addition to being an ordinary Namibian
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你知道嗎, 我除了是一個平凡的納米比亞人
03:38
and in addition to being a Himba
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除了是一個Himba人
03:40
I'm also a trained conservationist.
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我同時是一個受過訓練的天然資源保護論者
03:43
And it is very important if you are in the field
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當你在野外
03:46
to know what to confront
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知道遇到甚麼要面對
03:48
and what to run from.
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知道遇到甚麼要逃, 這是非常重要的一件事
03:51
I was born in 1971.
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我出生於1971年
03:53
We lived under apartheid regime.
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我們是在種族隔離的政權下生活著
03:57
The whites could farm, graze
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白種人可以耕種, 放牧
04:00
and hunt as they wished,
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還可以自由的打獵
04:02
but we black, we were not regarded as responsible
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但是我們黑人, 我們對於野生動物的獵取
04:05
to use wildlife.
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不被視為如白種人般有責任感
04:07
Whenever we tried to hunt,
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只要我們嘗試著打獵,
04:09
we were called poachers.
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就被稱為盜獵者
04:11
And as a result, we were fined and locked up in jail.
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因此, 我們被罰款並遭受牢獄之災
04:16
Between 1966 and 1990,
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在1966到1990年間,
04:19
the U.S. and Soviet interests
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美國和蘇聯爭奪著
04:22
fought for control over my country.
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掌控我的國家
04:25
And you know, during war time,
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你也知道, 在戰爭期間,
04:27
there are militaries, armies, that are moving around.
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軍方, 軍隊們到處遷徙
04:30
And the army hunted for valuable rhino horns
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然後軍隊會獵取有價值的犀牛角
04:33
and tusks.
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和長牙
04:35
They could sell these things for anything between
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他們可以以一公斤5,000美元
04:38
$5,000 a kilo.
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的價格賣出
04:40
During the same year
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在同一年間
04:42
almost every Himba had a rifle.
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幾乎每一個Himba人都有一枝步槍
04:45
Because it was wartime,
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因為那是戰爭其間,
04:47
the British .303 rifle
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英國.303步槍
04:49
was just all over the whole country.
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遍佈整個國家
04:53
Then in the same time, around 1980,
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同時, 大約1980年,
04:55
we had a very big drought.
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我們經歷了一場大旱災
04:58
It killed almost everything that was left.
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它殺死了幾乎所有剩下的東西
05:01
Our livestock was
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我們的家畜
05:03
almost at the brink of extinction,
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幾乎都在絕跡的邊緣
05:05
protected as well.
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也受到了保護
05:07
We were hungry.
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我們非常飢餓
05:09
I remember a night
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我記得有一天晚上
05:11
when a hungry leopard
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有一隻飢餓的豹
05:13
went into the house
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跑進了我們鄰居的
05:15
of one of our neighbors
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家裡
05:17
and took a sleeping child out of the bed.
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把他正在睡覺的孩子從床上奪走
05:19
It's a very sad story.
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這是一個非常令人難過的故事
05:22
But even today,
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但是即使今天,
05:24
that memory is still in people's minds.
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那個記憶仍然留在人們的腦海中
05:26
They can pinpoint the exact location
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他們可以準確的指出
05:28
where this all happened.
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事情發生的確切地點
05:31
And then, in the same year,
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然後, 同年間,
05:33
we almost lost everything.
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我們幾乎喪失了所有的東西
05:36
And my father said, "Why don't you just go to school?"
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我爸說, "那你為甚麼不去上學?"
05:40
And they sent me off to school, just to get busy somewhere there.
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然後他們把我送去學校, 就是想要忙碌些
05:43
And the year I went to school,
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我去上學的那一年,
05:45
my father actually got a job with a non-governmental organization
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我父親在一個非政府營運的機構找到工作
05:48
called IRDNC, Integrated Rural Development and Nature Conservation.
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名叫IRDNC -- 整合式郊區發展與自然保護
05:52
They actually spend a lot of time a year in the communities.
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他們一年當中花很多時間在許多社區上
05:56
They were trusted by the local communities
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他們被當地的社區所信任
05:59
like our leader, Joshua Kangombe.
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像我們的領袖, Joshua Kangombe
06:02
Joshua Kangombe saw what was happening:
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Joshua Kangombe看到所發生的事情:
06:04
wildlife disappearing,
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野生動物漸漸消失,
06:06
poaching was skyrocketing,
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盜獵行為暴增
06:09
and the situation seemed very hopeless.
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這種狀況似乎非常令人絕望
06:12
Death and despair surrounded Joshua
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死亡和絕望籠罩著Joshua
06:15
and our entire communities.
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以及所有的社區
06:18
But then, the people from IRDNC proposed to Joshua:
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但是, 來自IRDNC的人向Joshua提議:
06:23
What if we pay people that you trust
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若是我們付錢給你所信任的人
06:27
to look after wildlife?
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去照顧野生動物?
06:30
Do you have anybody in your communities, or people,
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在你的社區或是你的群眾中你認識誰
06:33
that know the bush very well
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對荒野非常瞭解
06:35
and that know wildlife very well?
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而且對野生動物非常熟悉?
06:38
The headman said: "Yes. Our poachers."
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這位領袖說 "有. 我們的盜獵者."
06:42
"Eh? The poachers?"
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" 蛤？盜獵者？“
06:44
"Yes. Our poachers."
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是的. 我們的盜獵者"
06:46
And that was my father.
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那就是我的父親
06:49
My father has been a poacher for quite a long time.
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我父親已經當了盜獵者好長一斷時間
06:53
Instead of shooting poachers dead
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不是向盜獵者討債
06:56
like they were doing elsewhere in Africa,
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像是他們在非洲別處做的事
06:59
IRDNC has helped men reclaim their abilities
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IRDNC幫助人們重新找回他們的能力
07:04
to manage their peoples
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去管理他的人民
07:06
and their rights to own and manage wildlife.
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以及去擁有和管理野生動物的權力
07:10
And thus, as people started feeling ownership over wildlife,
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因此, 當人們開始感覺對於野生動物有所有權
07:14
wildlife numbers started coming back,
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野生動物的數量開始回升
07:17
and that's actually becoming a foundation for conservation in Namibia.
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這也成為了納米比亞保育的基礎
07:22
With independence, the whole approach of community getting involved
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因為獨立, 社區這個整合的概念
07:25
was embraced by our new government.
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被新的政府欣然的接受
07:28
Three things that actually help to build on this foundation:
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事實上有三件事幫助了基礎的建立
07:31
The very first one is
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第一件事是
07:33
honoring of tradition and being open to new ideas.
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榮耀傳統而且接受新的想法
07:37
Here is our tradition:
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我們的傳統是這樣的
07:39
At every Himba village, there is a sacred fire.
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在每一個Himba的村落裡, 有一個聖火
07:43
And at this sacred fire, the spirit of our ancestors
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在這個聖火裡, 祖先的靈魂
07:46
speak through the headman
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會向我們的頭目說話
07:49
and advise us where to get water,
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然後指示我們哪裡可以取得水,
07:52
where to get grazings,
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哪裡可以取得牧草,
07:54
and where to go and hunt.
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哪裡可以前往打獵
07:57
And I think this is the best way of regulating ourselves
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我想這是在這個土地上
08:00
on the environment.
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管理我們自己最好的方法
08:03
And here are the new ideas.
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再來談談新的想法
08:06
Transporting rhinos using helicopters
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用直升機運送犀牛
08:09
I think is much easier
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我想是比跟一個你看不見的神靈
08:11
than talking through a spirit that you can't see, isn't it?
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說話來的容易, 是不是?
08:14
And these things we were taught by outsiders.
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這些事情是由外來者教給我們的
08:17
We learned these things from outsiders.
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我們從他們的身上學到這些東西
08:20
We needed new boundaries to describe our traditional lands;
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我們需要新的界線去描述我們的傳統地景;
08:24
we needed to learn more things like GPS
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我們需要去學習像GPS這樣的東西
08:28
just to see whether --
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只是想要知道
08:31
can GPS really reflect the true reflection of the land
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GPS是不是真的可以反應真實的地景
08:34
or is this just a thing made somewhere in the West?
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或它只是由西方世界發明的一個東西?
08:37
And we then wanted to see whether we can match our
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接著想要看看我們是否可以比照
08:41
ancestral maps with digital maps made somewhere in the world.
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祖先流傳下來的地圖與發明於世界某處的電子地圖
08:45
And through this,
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透過這些.
08:48
we actually started realizing our dreams,
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我們開始實現我們的夢想
08:52
and we maintained honoring our traditions
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而且我們榮耀了我們的傳統
08:55
but we were still open to new ideas.
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但我們仍然接納新的想法
08:57
The second element is that we wanted to have a life,
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第二個元素存在的原因是因為我們想要一種生活,
09:00
a better life where we can benefit through many things.
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一種可以從各個方面受惠的較好的生活
09:03
Most poachers, like my father,
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大部份的盜獵者, 像我的父親,
09:07
were people from our own community.
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是從我們自己社區中出來的
09:10
They were not people from outside.
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他們不是外來者
09:12
These were our own people.
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這些是我們自己的人民
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And sometimes, once they were caught,
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有時候, 一但他們被逮捕,
09:17
they were treated with respect, brought back into the communities
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他們會被有尊嚴的對待, 並且被帶回社區裡
09:20
and they were made part of the bigger dreams.
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而他們會被成為這個遠大的夢想的一部份
09:23
The best one, like my father -- I'm not campaigning for my father --
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最厲害的人, 像我父親 -- 我不是在為我父親競選拉票 --
09:26
(Laughter)
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(笑）
09:28
they were put in charge to stop others from poaching.
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他們會被任命為阻止盜獵行為的負責人
09:32
And when this thing started going on,
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所以當這樣的事情開始發生,
09:35
we started becoming one community,
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我們開始變成一個社群;
09:38
renewing our connection to nature.
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我們知道我們和自然的關係
09:40
And that was a very strong thing in Namibia.
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而那是在納米比亞的一個非常非常重要的事情
09:46
The last element that actually helped develop these things
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幫忙這整件事情發展的最後一個元素
09:49
was the partnerships.
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是一個合夥的關係
09:51
Our government has given legal status over our traditional lands.
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政府在我們流傳下來的土地上，給與合法擁有的權利
09:56
The other partners that we have got
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我們的另一些合夥人
09:59
is business communities.
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是商業社群
10:01
Business communities helped bring Namibia onto the world map
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商業社群幫助帶領納米比亞走上世界地圖
10:06
and they have also helped make wildlife
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他們也幫助使野生生物的生長
10:09
a very valuable land use like any other land uses
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成為非常有價值的一種土地使用方式, 就像是任何一種土地使用
10:14
such as agriculture.
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例如農業
10:16
And most of my conservation colleagues today
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現在我大部份在納米比亞
10:19
that you find in Namibia
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從事保育工作的同事
10:21
have been trained through the initiative,
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被主動積極的機構所培訓
10:23
through the involvement of World Wildlife Fund
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透過世界自然基金會的參與
10:26
in the most up-to-date conservation practices.
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使用最新的實行作法
10:29
They have also given funding for two decades
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這二十年來他們也一直
10:32
to this whole program.
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給與整個計畫資金
10:35
And so far, with the support of World Wildlife Fund,
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目前,因為世界自然基金會的支持
10:38
we've been able to scale up the very small programs
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我們有能力把非常小的計畫擴大
10:41
to national programs today.
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到全國性的計畫
10:43
Namibia ... or Sesfontein
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納米比亞 ... 或是Sesfontein
10:46
was no more an isolated village somewhere,
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已經不在是藏在納米比亞某處的
10:49
hidden away in Namibia.
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孤立村莊
10:52
With these assets we are now part of the global village.
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因為這些資產, 我們現在是整個地球村的一部份
10:55
Thirty years have passed
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三十年過去了
10:58
since my father's first job as a community game guard.
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從我父親的第一份工作- 社區狩獵管理員, 開始算起
11:02
It's very unfortunate that he passed away and he cannot see the success
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不幸的是我已經父親過世了, 他沒有機會目睹這份成就
11:06
as I and my children see it today.
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如同我和我的孩子現在看到的景況
11:09
When I finished school in 1995,
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當我1995年念完書,
11:11
there were only 20 lions in the entire Northwest -- in our area.
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在我們整個西北區只有20隻獅子
11:16
But today, there are more than 130 lions.
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但是今天, 現在有130隻以上的獅子
11:22
(Applause)
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(掌聲)
11:28
So please, if you go to Namibia,
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所以, 如果你去納米比亞
11:30
make sure that you stay in the tents.
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請你確定自己待在帳篷內
11:32
Don't walk out at night!
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晚上不要外出!
11:34
(Laughter)
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(笑)
11:35
The black rhino -- they were almost extinct in 1982.
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黑犀牛 -- 牠們在1982年幾乎絕種
11:40
But today, Kunene has the largest concentration of black rhino --
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但是現在, Kunene是全球黑犀牛最大的集中區 --
11:44
free-roaming black rhinos -- in the world.
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自由遊走的黑犀牛
11:47
This is outside the protected area.
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這是發生在保護區以外的地方
11:50
(Applause)
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(掌聲)
11:53
The leopard -- they are now in big numbers
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致於豹 -- 牠們現在的數量很多
11:57
but they are now far away from our village,
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但是牠們離我們的村莊非常遠
11:59
because the natural plain has multiplied,
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因為自然資產倍增
12:02
like zebras, springboks and everything.
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像是斑馬, 跳羚以及其他的生物
12:05
They stay very much far away
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牠們居住的地方離我們非常遠
12:08
because this other thing has multiplied
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因為這些其他的生物倍增
12:10
from less than a thousand to tens of thousands of animals.
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現在動物的數目從一千以下增長到須以萬計算
12:14
What started as very small,
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而且, 從非常小的起點,
12:18
community rangers getting community involved,
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社區巡邏員開始使社區參與
12:21
has now grown into something that we call conservancies.
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現在演變成名為保護局的機構
12:25
Conservancies are legally instituted institutions
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保護局是合法創制的機構
12:31
by the government,
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為政府所擁有
12:33
and these are run by the communities themselves, for their benefit.
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而這些機構為社區所自行運作, 為著他們自己的福利
12:36
Today, we have got 60 conservancies
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現今, 我們有大約60個保護局
12:39
that manage and protect over 13 million hectares
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他們管理以及保護超過一千三百萬公頃
12:43
of land in Namibia.
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的納米比亞土地
12:46
We have already reshaped conservation in the entire country.
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我們已經重新塑造了整個國家的保育工作
12:51
Nowhere else in the world
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全球沒有任何一個其他的
12:53
has community-adopted conservation at this scale.
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以社區認養為基礎的大尺度保育工作
12:57
(Applause)
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(掌聲)
13:02
In 2008, conservancy generated 5.7 million dollars.
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在2008年, 保護局有五百七十萬元的收入
13:07
This is our new economy --
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這是我們新的經濟系統 --
13:10
an economy based on the respect of our natural resources.
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一個以尊敬我們自然資源為基礎的經濟系統
13:13
And we are able to use this money for many things:
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而且, 我們可以把金錢運用在其他方面
13:16
Very importantly, we put it in education.
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非常重要的, 我們把它用於教育
13:19
Secondly, we put it for infrastructure. Food.
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第二, 我們把它用於國家建設和糧食
13:22
Very important as well -- we invest this money in AIDS and HIV education.
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另外非常重要的一點 -- 我們把這些錢投資在人體免疫缺乏病毒和愛滋病的教育上
13:27
You know that Africa is being affected by these viruses.
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如你所知的非洲被這些病毒牽動著
13:31
And this is the good news from Africa
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而這就是來自非洲的好消息
13:35
that we have to shout from the rooftops.
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我們應該到處宣揚這件事情
13:38
(Applause)
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(掌聲)
13:45
And now, what the world really needs
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現在, 這個世界真正需要的
13:49
is for you to help me and our partners
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是需要你和我們的合夥人
13:56
take some of what we have learned in Namibia
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把在納米比亞學到的經驗帶到
14:00
to other places with similar problems:
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其他面臨類似情形的的地方
14:04
places like Mongolia,
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像是蒙古,
14:08
or even in your own backyards,
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或是你們自家的後院,
14:12
the Northern Great Plains,
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北部大草原,
14:15
where buffalo and other animals have suffered
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水牛和其他動物正面臨危機
14:18
and many communities are in decline.
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許多社區人數正在下降
14:21
I like that one:
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我喜歡這點
14:24
Namibia serving as a model to Africa,
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納米比亞成為非洲的典範
14:28
and Africa serving as a model to the United States.
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然後非洲再作為美國的典範
14:33
(Applause)
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(掌聲)
14:41
We were successful in Namibia
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我們在納米比亞的成功
14:43
because we dreamed of a future
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是因為我們夢想我們的未來
14:46
that was much more than just a healthy wildlife.
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它會比一個健康的野生環境還要更遠大
14:51
We knew conservation would fail
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我們知道保育工作會失敗
14:55
if it doesn't work to improve the lives of the local communities.
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如果它不能改善當地社區的生活
15:02
So, come and talk to me about Namibia,
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所以, 來和我談談納米比亞
15:07
and better yet, come to Namibia
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而更好的是, 拜訪納米比亞
15:10
and see for yourself how we have done it.
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你親自來看我們怎麼做到的
15:12
And please, do visit our website
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而且, 請上我們的網站
15:15
to learn more and see how you can help CBNRM
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去瞭解你要如何幫助CBNRM
15:18
in Africa and across the world.
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在非洲以及跨及全球
15:21
Thank you very much.
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非常謝謝大家
15:24
(Applause)
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(掌聲)
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
John Kasaona - ConservationistJohn Kasaona is a pioneer of community-based conservation -- working with the people who use and live on fragile land to enlist them in protecting it.
Why you should listen
John Kasaona is a leader in the drive to reinvent conservation in Namibia -- turning poachers into protectors of species. It’s a standard nature-documentary scenario: a pristine animal habitat under constant threat by the people who live there, hunting, camping, setting fires. But John Kasaona knows there is a better way to see this relationship between people and environment. As the assistant director for the Integrated Rural Development and Nature Conservation (IRDNC) , Kasaona works on ways to improve the lives of rural people in Namibia by involving them in the management of the lands they live on -- and the species that live there with them.
Kasanoa's Community-Based Natural Resource Management (CBNRM) program helps rural villages set up communal conservancies, which manage and use local natural resources in a sustainable manner. Essentially, it's about restoring the balance of land and people to that of pre-colonial times, and allowing the people with the most interest in the survival of their environment to have control of it. His work was featured in the recent film Milking the Rhino.
The World Wildlife Fund has set up a portal for TEDsters to help in John Kasaona's work. Learn more >>
John Kasaona | Speaker | TED.com