TEDGlobal 2011
Misha Glenny: Hire the hackers!
Misha Glenny : 雇用駭客吧！
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儘管我們在網路安全上花了數百億美元的投資，大家還是忽略了一個根本的問題：到底是誰在寫這些有害的程式？網絡地下世界的調查員Misha Glenny為我們描述了數個被判刑的駭客的檔案，並下了一個驚人的結論。
Misha Glenny - Underworld investigator
Journalist Misha Glenny leaves no stone unturned (and no failed state unexamined) in his excavation of criminal globalization. Full bio
Journalist Misha Glenny leaves no stone unturned (and no failed state unexamined) in his excavation of criminal globalization. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:15
Now this is a very un-TED-like thing to do,
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這實在很不TED
00:18
but let's kick off the afternoon
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但是讓我們用這個
00:21
with a message
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神秘贊助者的簡訊
00:23
from a mystery sponsor.
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來開始下午的節目。
00:26
Anonymous: Dear Fox News,
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匿名者：親愛的福斯新聞
00:28
it has come to our unfortunate attention
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很不幸地我們注意到了
00:31
that both the name and nature of Anonymous
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“匿名者”名聲和本體
00:33
has been ravaged.
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已遭到破壞
00:35
We are everyone. We are no one.
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我們既不存在也無所不在
00:38
We are anonymous. We are legion.
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我們是傳奇但也默默無名
00:41
We do not forgive. We do not forget.
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我們不原諒 我們也不會忘記
00:44
We are but the base of chaos.
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我們是一切混亂的根源
00:49
Misha Glenny: Anonymous, ladies and gentlemen --
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Misha Glenny：在座的各位，匿名者
00:52
a sophisticated group
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是一個因政治理念而成立的
00:54
of politically motivated hackers
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很複雜的團體
00:56
who have emerged in 2011.
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于2011年浮現抬面
00:59
And they're pretty scary.
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他們很可怕
01:01
You never know when they're going to attack next,
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你永遠不知道他們下一個攻擊目標是什麽
01:04
who or what the consequences will be.
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誰或什麽又會遭殃
01:07
But interestingly,
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但是很有趣的是
01:09
they have a sense of humor.
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他們很有幽默感
01:12
These guys hacked into Fox News' Twitter account
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他們侵入了福斯新聞的推特帳號
01:16
to announce President Obama's assassination.
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借此發表了歐巴馬遇刺的消息
01:20
Now you can imagine the panic that would have generated
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你現在可以想像當時在福斯新聞室裏
01:23
in the newsroom at Fox.
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造成的一片驚慌
01:25
"What do we do now?
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“我們現在該怎麽辦？
01:27
Put on a black armband, or crack open the champagne?"
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該帶黑臂帶致哀還是開香檳慶祝？”
01:30
(Laughter)
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（笑聲）
01:32
And of course, who could escape the irony
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當然了 誰會放過
01:36
of a member of Rupert Murdoch's News Corp.
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輪到媒體大亨梅鐸新聞集團旗下的公司被駭
01:39
being a victim of hacking for a change.
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這個天大的諷刺呢
01:42
(Laughter)
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（笑聲）
01:44
(Applause)
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（掌聲）
01:48
Sometimes you turn on the news
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有時你打開新聞
01:51
and you say, "Is there anyone left to hack?"
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你會問“還有沒被駭的嗎？”
01:53
Sony Playstation Network -- done,
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索尼PS的網路- 被駭
01:56
the government of Turkey -- tick,
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土耳其政府網站 - 被駭
01:58
Britain's Serious Organized Crime Agency -- a breeze,
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英國重犯罪局 - 輕而易舉
02:01
the CIA -- falling off a log.
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中央情報局 - 輕而易舉
02:03
In fact, a friend of mine from the security industry
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事實上一個在資訊安全業界的朋友
02:05
told me the other day
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幾天前告訴我說
02:07
that there are two types of companies in the world:
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這世上只有兩種公司
02:10
those that know they've been hacked, and those that don't.
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已被駭和還沒被駭
02:13
I mean three companies
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連三家提供美國中情局
02:16
providing cybersecurity services to the FBI
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網路安全服務的公司
02:20
have been hacked.
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都全部被駭過了
02:22
Is nothing sacred anymore, for heaven's sake?
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那還有什麽是無可侵犯的？
02:25
Anyway, this mysterious group Anonymous --
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總之，這個叫匿名者的組織
02:27
and they would say this themselves --
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他們自己說
02:29
they are providing a service
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他們是幫大家驗證
02:31
by demonstrating how useless companies are
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這些保護資料的公司
02:35
at protecting our data.
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是多麽的沒用
02:38
But there is also a very serious aspect to Anonymous --
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但這組織背後有更嚴肅的一面
02:41
they are ideologically driven.
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他們是有意識形態的
02:44
They claim that they are battling
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他們說他們是在對抗
02:46
a dastardly conspiracy.
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欺善怕惡的陰謀
02:49
They say that governments are trying
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他們說各國政府
02:51
to take over the Internet and control it,
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要試著取下網際網路的控制權
02:54
and that they, Anonymous,
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而他們，匿名者
02:56
are the authentic voice of resistance --
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是與其對抗的正宗力量
02:59
be it against Middle Eastern dictatorships,
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無論是中東的獨裁政權
03:01
against global media corporations,
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或是對抗媒體巨人
03:04
or against intelligence agencies,
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或是對抗情報組織
03:06
or whoever it is.
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等等之類的
03:08
And their politics are not entirely unattractive.
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他們的政治理論倒也不乏吸引力
03:12
Okay, they're a little inchoate.
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好吧 他們是有一些不成熟
03:15
There's a strong whiff
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感覺起來像有些
03:17
of half-baked anarchism about them.
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類似無政府主義的味道在裏面
03:20
But one thing is true:
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但是有件事是確定的
03:22
we are at the beginning
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我們正站在
03:24
of a mighty struggle
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爭奪網際網路控制權的
03:26
for control of the Internet.
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巨大戰爭的起點
03:29
The Web links everything,
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網路連接一切
03:31
and very soon
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並且速度很快
03:33
it will mediate most human activity.
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網路將會居間斡旋人類大部分的活動
03:35
Because the Internet has fashioned
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因爲網路給一存在已久的兩難困境
03:37
a new and complicated environment
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帶來更新更複雜的背景條件
03:39
for an old-age dilemma
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這個進退兩難的困境就是
03:42
that pits the demands of security
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我們對安全的需求
03:45
with the desire for freedom.
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和同時對自由的渴望
03:48
Now this is a very complicated struggle.
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現在這變成了一個很複雜的抗爭
03:52
And unfortunately, for mortals like you and me,
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很不幸地像你我這樣的凡人
03:55
we probably can't understand it very well.
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我們大概很難去了解
03:58
Nonetheless,
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然而
04:00
in an unexpected attack of hubris
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在幾年前
04:02
a couple of years ago,
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一陣自傲的驅使下
04:04
I decided I would try and do that.
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我決定要來試著了解這個問題
04:07
And I sort of get it.
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我後來大概也懂了
04:11
These were the various things that I was looking at
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在試著了解這個問題的過程
04:13
as I was trying to understand it.
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我研究的是這些事
04:15
But in order to try and explain the whole thing,
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但是爲了將整個問題全盤解釋
04:18
I would need another 18 minutes or so to do it,
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我將會需要再多18分鐘
04:21
so you're just going to have to take it on trust from me on this occasion,
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所以今天你只好相信我在這裡所講的
04:26
and let me assure you that all of these issues
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我可以跟你保證 所有提到的問題
04:28
are involved in cybersecurity and control of the Internet
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都和網路犯罪和網路安全
04:31
one way or the other,
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有相當的關係
04:33
but in a configuration
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其範圍之大
04:35
that even Stephen Hawking would probably have difficulty
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連史蒂芬霍金教授
04:38
trying to get his head around.
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都恐怕有困難來全盤了解
04:41
So there you are.
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那麽我們就開始吧
04:43
And as you see, in the middle,
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在這張圖的中間
04:45
there is our old friend, the hacker.
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這是我們的老朋友，駭客
04:47
The hacker is absolutely central
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在網路上的很多問題 舉凡
04:50
to many of the political, social
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政治社會經濟議題
04:52
and economic issues affecting the Net.
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駭客都是問題的中心
04:55
And so I thought to myself,
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所以我就想
04:58
"Well, these are the guys who I want to talk to."
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那麽這些就是我想跟他們談談的人
05:01
And what do you know,
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大家都知道
05:04
nobody else does talk to the hackers.
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沒有其他的人跟駭客交談
05:06
They're completely anonymous, as it were.
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他們完全是無名的 跟過去一樣
05:09
So despite the fact
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所以 雖然
05:11
that we are beginning to pour billions,
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我們開始將十億
05:14
hundreds of billions of dollars,
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幾千億美元的金額
05:16
into cybersecurity --
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投入到網路安全上
05:19
for the most extraordinary technical solutions --
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使用最先進的科技
05:23
no one wants to talk
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但是仍然沒有人
05:25
to these guys, the hackers,
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想跟這些始作俑者
05:27
who are doing everything.
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跟這些駭客談一談
05:30
Instead, we prefer these really dazzling technological solutions,
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我們寧願將大筆大筆的錢
05:35
which cost a huge amount of money.
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花在眩目的科技上
05:38
And so nothing is going into the hackers.
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也不花半毛錢在駭客身上
05:41
Well, I say nothing,
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嗯 雖然我說沒半毛錢
05:43
but actually there is one teeny weeny little research unit
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事實上倒還是有一個很小的研究機構
05:47
in Turin, Italy
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在意大利的杜林
05:49
called the Hackers Profiling Project.
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叫做駭客檔案計劃
05:52
And they are doing some fantastic research
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他們在做一些很棒的研究
05:55
into the characteristics,
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在研究駭客的特性
05:57
into the abilities
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能力
05:59
and the socialization of hackers.
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和社會性
06:01
But because they're a U.N. operation,
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或許因爲他們是聯合國的機構
06:03
maybe that's why governments and corporations
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所以政府和企業
06:05
are not that interested in them.
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對他們都不感興趣
06:07
Because it's a U.N. operation,
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也正因爲他們是聯合國的機構
06:09
of course, it lacks funding.
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也就理所當然地欠缺經費
06:12
But I think they're doing very important work.
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但是我覺得他們的研究是很重要的
06:15
Because where we have a surplus of technology
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因爲在網路安全的領域裏我們在科技的發展上
06:19
in the cybersecurity industry,
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有著很多的領先
06:22
we have a definite lack of --
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那麽我們一定 -
06:25
call me old-fashioned --
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你可以說我是老古板 -
06:27
human intelligence.
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在人類智慧的發展上尚有不足
06:29
Now, so far I've mentioned
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到此我已經提到了
06:31
the hackers Anonymous
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匿名者
06:33
who are a politically motivated hacking group.
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這個有政治訴求的駭客團體
06:36
Of course, the criminal justice system
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當然犯罪司法系統
06:38
treats them as common old garden criminals.
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把他們當一般的犯人來看
06:40
But interestingly,
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有趣的是
06:42
Anonymous does not make use of its hacked information
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匿名者並沒有利用他們駭來的資訊
06:44
for financial gain.
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在商業上牟利
06:46
But what about the real cybercriminals?
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那麽真正的網路犯罪也是這樣嗎？
06:50
Well real organized crime on the Internet
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真正的有組織的網路犯罪
06:53
goes back about 10 years
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起源于10年前
06:55
when a group of gifted Ukrainian hackers
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由一群烏克蘭的駭客
07:00
developed a website,
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設計了一個網站
07:02
which led to the industrialization
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而繼而導致了網路犯罪的
07:04
of cybercrime.
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普遍化
07:07
Welcome to the now forgotten realm of CarderPlanet.
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歡迎來到現已被遺忘的CarderPlanet（卡友星球）
07:13
This is how they were advertising themselves
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這是十年前在網路上
07:15
a decade ago on the Net.
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他們為自己打廣告的方式
07:18
Now CarderPlanet was very interesting.
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卡友星球在當時很有趣
07:20
Cybercriminals would go there
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網路罪犯會去那個網站
07:22
to buy and sell stolen credit card details,
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買賣偷來的信用卡資料
07:25
to exchange information
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還有在那裏交換
07:27
about new malware that was out there.
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有關malware（惡意程式）的資訊
07:30
And remember, this is a time
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我們要記得
07:32
when we're seeing for the first time
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這是我們第一次看到
07:34
so-called off-the-shelf malware.
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所謂現成的惡意程式
07:36
This is ready for use, out-of-the-box stuff,
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這是馬上可以使用的現成產品
07:39
which you can deploy
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即使你不是厲害的駭客
07:41
even if you're not a terribly sophisticated hacker.
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你也可以輕易使用這些程式
07:45
And so CarderPlanet became a sort of supermarket
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所以卡友星球變成了
07:48
for cybercriminals.
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網路罪犯的超級市場
07:50
And its creators
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而網站的設計者
07:52
were incredibly smart and entrepreneurial,
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是一群很聰明的創業家
07:54
because they were faced
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因爲他們面對的是
07:56
with one enormous challenge as cybercriminals.
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網路犯罪的一個巨大的挑戰
07:59
And that challenge is:
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這個挑戰就是
08:01
How do you do business,
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你如何在網路上做生意
08:03
how do you trust
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你如何能信賴客戶
08:05
somebody on the Web who you want to do business with
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當你知道你的客戶
08:07
when you know that they're a criminal?
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全部都是罪犯？
08:10
(Laughter)
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（笑聲）
08:12
It's axiomatic that they're dodgy,
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欺騙對他們來説是正常的
08:14
and they're going to want to try and rip you off.
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他們會想盡辦法來把你騙得精光
08:17
So the family, as the inner core of CarderPlanet was known,
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所以卡友星球的核心成員
08:20
came up with this brilliant idea
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想出了這麽一個天才的主意
08:22
called the escrow system.
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叫做抵押系統
08:24
They appointed an officer
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他們指定一個中介管理者
08:27
who would mediate between the vendor and the purchaser.
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來協調買方和賣方
08:30
The vendor, say, had stolen credit card details;
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譬如說賣方有一筆偷來的信用卡的資料
08:33
the purchaser wanted to get a hold of them.
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而買方想來買
08:36
The purchaser would send the administrative officer
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買方會先用電子錢包
08:39
some dollars digitally,
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送一些美元給這個中介管理者
08:41
and the vendor would sell the stolen credit card details.
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賣方也將信用卡資料賣給這個管理者
08:44
And the officer would then verify
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中介管理者則去確認
08:47
if the stolen credit card worked.
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信用卡資料是不是真的有效
08:50
And if they did,
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如果是真的
08:52
he then passed on the money to the vendor
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他就把錢送給賣方
08:54
and the stolen credit card details to the purchaser.
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並把信用卡資料轉送給買方
08:57
And it was this
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就這樣
08:59
which completely revolutionized cybercrime on the Web.
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徹底地給網路犯罪帶來全面的革新
09:04
And after that, it just went wild.
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在這以後更是一發不可收拾
09:06
We had a champagne decade
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對卡友星球的成員來説
09:08
for people who we know as Carders.
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接下來的十年是天天開香檳
09:11
Now I spoke to one of these Carders
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現在是我跟一個卡友星球的成員談話
09:13
who we'll call RedBrigade --
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我們叫他RedBrigade（紅兵團）
09:15
although that wasn't even his proper nickname --
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這並不是他真正的綽號
09:17
but I promised I wouldn't reveal who he was.
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但是我答應為他保密
09:19
And he explained to me how in 2003 and 2004
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他跟我解釋了在2003和2004年之間
09:22
he would go on sprees in New York,
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他如何在紐約狂歡
09:25
taking out $10,000 from an ATM here,
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從這個提款機提一萬美元
09:28
$30,000 from an ATM there,
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再到下個提款機提三萬美元
09:31
using cloned credit cards.
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靠的只是一張僞造的信用卡
09:34
He was making, on average a week,
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他每個禮拜平均
09:37
$150,000 --
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賺15萬美元
09:40
tax free of course.
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當然還不用繳稅
09:42
And he said
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他還說有一次
09:45
that he had so much money
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實在是有太多錢
09:47
stashed in his upper-East side apartment at one point
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堆在他在上東區的公寓裏
09:49
that he just didn't know what to do with it
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他實在不知道該怎麽辦
09:51
and actually fell into a depression.
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還因此引發了他的憂鬱症
09:53
But that's a slightly different story,
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這算是題外話
09:55
which I won't go into now.
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我就不詳談這一部分了
09:57
Now the interesting thing about RedBrigade
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有趣的是
10:00
is that he wasn't an advanced hacker.
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紅兵團並不是高階的駭客
10:02
He sort of understood the technology,
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技術方面他大概了解
10:04
and he realized that security was very important
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他也知道如果想成爲卡友星球的一分子
10:07
if you were going to be a Carder,
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網路安全的技術是很重要的
10:10
but he didn't spend his days and nights
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但他並沒有日日夜夜
10:12
bent over a computer, eating pizza,
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坐在電腦前
10:14
drinking coke and that sort of thing.
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吃比薩喝可樂和掛網
10:16
He was out there on the town
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他倒是常跑趴
10:18
having a fab time enjoying the high life.
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找樂子享受人生
10:20
And this is because
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這是因爲
10:22
hackers are only one element
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駭客只是整個網路犯罪
10:25
in a cybercriminal enterprise.
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裏面的一環罷了
10:28
And often they're the most vulnerable element of all.
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而且通常他們是最脆弱的一環
10:34
And I want to explain this to you
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我想藉由介紹以下六個人
10:36
by introducing you to six characters
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來跟大家説明這點
10:38
who I met
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這六個人
10:40
while I was doing this research.
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是我在做這研究時所認識的
10:43
Dimitry Golubov, aka SCRIPT --
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Dimitry Golubov 又叫SCRIPT
10:46
born in Odessa, Ukraine in 1982.
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1982年在烏克蘭的奧蒂塞出生
10:49
Now he developed his social and moral compass
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在1990年代他在這黑海港都的生活
10:52
on the Black Sea port during the 1990s.
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養成了他人生的社會和道德觀
10:55
This was a sink-or-swim environment
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那是一個人吃人狗咬狗的社會
10:58
where involvement in criminal or corrupt activities
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參與犯罪和貪腐活動
11:02
was entirely necessary
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是完全必要的
11:04
if you wanted to survive.
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那是你生存的必要條件
11:06
As an accomplished computer user,
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作爲一個嫺熟的電腦使用者
11:08
what Dimitry did
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Dimitry做的
11:10
was to transfer the gangster capitalism of his hometown
250
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不過是將他家鄉黑道資本主義的那一套
11:14
onto the Worldwide Web.
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搬到網路上
11:16
And he did a great job in it.
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他還做得很成功
11:18
You have to understand though
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我們必須了解一件事
11:20
that from his ninth birthday,
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從他九歲生日起
11:22
the only environment he knew
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他唯一認識的環境
11:24
was gangsterism.
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就是黑道社會
11:26
He knew no other way of making a living
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他並不知道其他維生
11:28
and making money.
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或賺錢的方法
11:30
Then we have Renukanth Subramaniam,
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接下來是Renukanth Subramaniam
11:32
aka JiLsi --
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又叫JiLsi
11:34
founder of DarkMarket,
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DarkMarket（黑暗市場）的創始人
11:36
born in Colombo, Sri Lanka.
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在斯里蘭卡的科倫坡出生
11:38
As an eight year-old,
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在他八歲的時候
11:40
he and his parents fled the Sri Lankan capital
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他和他的爸媽逃離了斯里蘭卡的首都
11:42
because Singhalese mobs were roaming the city,
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因爲斯里蘭卡的黑幫在首都肆虐
11:45
looking for Tamils like Renu to murder.
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他們在追殺長得像塔米爾人的Renu
11:48
At 11, he was interrogated by the Sri Lankan military,
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11歲的時候，他被斯里蘭卡軍方偵訊
11:50
accused of being a terrorist,
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被控為恐怖分子
11:52
and his parents sent him on his own to Britain
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他的父母把他一個人送到英國
11:56
as a refugee seeking political asylum.
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尋求政治庇護
11:59
At 13,
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13歲的時候
12:01
with only little English and being bullied at school,
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他只會說一點英語 在學校又被欺負
12:04
he escaped into a world of computers
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他躲入了電腦的世界
12:07
where he showed great technical ability,
274
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在那兒他展露了他的技巧和能力
12:09
but he was soon being seduced
275
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但很快地他被網路上
12:12
by people on the Internet.
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其他人所誘拐
12:14
He was convicted of mortgage and credit card fraud,
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他因貸款和信用詐欺被判刑
12:17
and he will be released from Wormwood Scrubs jail in London
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他要在倫敦的Wormwood Scrubs監獄
12:20
in 2012.
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待到2012年
12:22
Matrix001,
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Matrix001
12:26
who was an administrator at DarkMarket.
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以前是黑暗市場的管理員
12:29
Born in Southern Germany
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生於德國南部
12:31
to a stable and well-respected middle class family,
283
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一個備受尊敬的中產階級家庭
12:33
his obsession with gaming as a teenager
284
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在青少年時期沉迷于缐上游戯
12:36
led him to hacking.
285
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後來導致他開始當駭客
12:38
And he was soon controlling huge servers around the world
286
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很快地他就控制了世界上很多大型的伺服器
12:42
where he stored his games
287
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這些他破解或駭來的伺服器
12:44
that he had cracked and pirated.
288
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被他用來儲存他的遊戲軟體
12:46
His slide into criminality
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他是慢慢地
12:48
was incremental.
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一步一步地踏入犯罪
12:50
And when he finally woke up to his situation
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最後當他覺醒
12:53
and understood the implications,
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明白了他的處境和可能的下場
12:55
he was already in too deep.
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他已經陷入太深
12:58
Max Vision, aka ICEMAN --
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Max Vision 又叫 ICEMAN
13:00
mastermind of cardersMarket.
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是卡友市場的靈魂人物
13:02
Born in Meridian, Idaho.
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在美國愛達荷州的Meridian出生
13:04
Max Vision was one of the best penetration testers
297
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Max Vision是最佳的滲透測試者之一
13:08
working out of Santa Clara, California
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他1990年代末期在加州的聖塔巴巴拉
13:11
in the late 90s for private companies
299
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替私人公司工作
13:13
and voluntarily for the FBI.
300
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也志願幫FBI（聯邦調查局）工作
13:16
Now in the late 1990s,
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在1990年代末期
13:18
he discovered a vulnerability
302
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他發現了所有美國政府
13:20
on all U.S. government networks,
303
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網路安全上的一個漏洞
13:23
and he went in and patched it up --
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他把這個漏洞補了起來
13:25
because this included nuclear research facilities --
305
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因爲這也牽連到核能研究單位
13:29
sparing the American government
306
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這替美國政府
13:31
a huge security embarrassment.
307
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避免了一次難堪的局面
13:33
But also, because he was an inveterate hacker,
308
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但也因爲他的駭客習性根深蒂固
13:36
he left a tiny digital wormhole
309
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他給補丁留下了一道
13:38
through which he alone could crawl.
310
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只有自己才能進入的後門
13:40
But this was spotted by an eagle-eye investigator,
311
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這最後被眼尖的調查員發現了
13:43
and he was convicted.
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他也被判刑
13:45
At his open prison,
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在他的開放監禁期間
13:47
he came under the influence of financial fraudsters,
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他認識了其他財務詐欺犯
13:49
and those financial fraudsters
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這些人說服了他
13:51
persuaded him to work for them
316
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要他在服刑期滿後
13:53
on his release.
317
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為他們工作
13:55
And this man with a planetary-sized brain
318
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結果這個十分聰明的人
13:58
is now serving a 13-year sentence
319
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又被判了13年
14:00
in California.
320
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現在在加州服刑
14:02
Adewale Taiwo, aka FeddyBB --
321
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Adewale Taiwo 又叫 FeddyBB
14:05
master bank account cracker
322
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銀行賬戶破解專家
14:07
from Abuja in Nigeria.
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住在奈及利亞的阿佈賈
14:10
He set up his prosaically entitled newsgroup,
324
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他成立了這個名字平凡無奇的新聞組
14:13
bankfrauds@yahoo.co.uk
325
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bankfrauds@yahoo.co.uk
14:18
before arriving in Britain
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在他來到英國之前
14:20
in 2005
327
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在2005年
14:22
to take a Masters in chemical engineering
328
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他當時要來曼徹斯特大學
14:24
at Manchester University.
329
849000
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研讀化學工程的碩士課程
14:26
He impressed in the private sector,
330
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他給私人企業留下了深刻的印象
14:29
developing chemical applications for the oil industry
331
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藉著他一面為石油業寫程式
14:32
while simultaneously running
332
857000
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一面私底下進行全球規模
14:34
a worldwide bank and credit card fraud operation that was worth millions
333
859000
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價值數百萬的銀行和信用卡詐欺活動
14:37
until his arrest in 2008.
334
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一直到2008年被捕
14:41
And then finally, Cagatay Evyapan,
335
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最後還有一個，Cagatay Evyapan
14:43
aka Cha0 --
336
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又叫 Cha0
14:45
one of the most remarkable hackers ever,
337
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是有史以來最傑出的駭客之一
14:47
from Ankara in Turkey.
338
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他是土耳其安卡拉人
14:49
He combined the tremendous skills of a geek
339
874000
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他將高超的電腦技術
14:52
with the suave social engineering skills
340
877000
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和職業罪犯成熟的社交技巧
14:56
of the master criminal.
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結合在一起
14:59
One of the smartest people I've ever met.
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他是我見過最聰明的人之一
15:02
He also had the most effective
343
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他同時也擁有
15:04
virtual private network security arrangement
344
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在全球的網路犯罪中
15:06
the police have ever encountered
345
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警察從未見過
15:08
amongst global cybercriminals.
346
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最有效率的私人虛擬網路
15:10
Now the important thing
347
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現在重要的是
15:12
about all of these people
348
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這些駭客
15:14
is they share certain characteristics
349
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雖然來自不同國家不同背景
15:16
despite the fact that they come from very different environments.
350
901000
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他們卻有一些共同性
15:20
They are all people who learned their hacking skills
351
905000
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他們都是在十幾歲的時候
15:23
in their early to mid-teens.
352
908000
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學會了駭客的技巧
15:26
They are all people
353
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他們也都
15:28
who demonstrate advanced ability
354
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在數理科上
15:30
in maths and the sciences.
355
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顯示了超人一等的能力
15:33
Remember that, when they developed those hacking skills,
356
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我們要知道，在他們發展駭客的技巧時
15:35
their moral compass had not yet developed.
357
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他們的道德感尚未健全
15:39
And most of them, with the exception of SCRIPT and Cha0,
358
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除了SCRIPT和Cha0以外
15:42
they did not demonstrate
359
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以上大部分的人無法顯示有
15:46
any real social skills in the outside world --
360
931000
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任何在真實世界的社會技巧
15:49
only on the Web.
361
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他們的只活在網路上
15:51
And the other thing is
362
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另外還有一件事值得一談
15:53
the high incidence of hackers like these
363
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有很高的比例顯示
15:55
who have characteristics which are consistent
364
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這樣的駭客表現了
15:58
with Asperger's syndrome.
365
943000
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亞斯伯格症候群的症狀
16:01
Now I discussed this
366
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我曾就此一問題
16:03
with Professor Simon Baron-Cohen
367
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請教過 Simon Baron-Cohen 教授
16:05
who's the professor of developmental psychopathology at Cambridge.
368
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他是劍橋大學心理發展學的教授
16:09
And he has done path-breaking work on autism
369
954000
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他在研究自閉症上有突破性的發展
16:13
and confirmed, also for the authorities here,
370
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Cohen 教授向官方證實了
16:15
that Gary McKinnon --
371
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Gary McKinnon
16:17
who is wanted by the United States
372
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他因爲駭入美國國防部的電腦
16:19
for hacking into the Pentagon --
373
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而遭到美國通緝
16:21
suffers from Asperger's
374
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他也患有亞斯伯格症候群
16:23
and a secondary condition
375
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還有第二級的
16:25
of depression.
376
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憂鬱症
16:27
And Baron-Cohen explained
377
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根據Baron教授的解釋
16:29
that certain disabilities
378
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有一些人格缺陷
16:31
can manifest themselves in the hacking and computing world
379
976000
3000
表現在電腦網路和駭客的世界裏
16:34
as tremendous skills,
380
979000
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就變成驚人的特殊技巧
16:36
and that we should not be throwing in jail
381
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所以我們不應該
16:38
people who have such disabilities and skills
382
983000
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將這些人格缺陷和特殊技巧丟入監獄裏
16:41
because they have lost their way socially
383
986000
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因爲他們只是在社會上一時迷失
16:44
or been duped.
384
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或是被欺騙利用
16:46
Now I think we're missing a trick here,
385
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我想我們忽略了一個重點
16:49
because I don't think people like Max Vision should be in jail.
386
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因爲我認爲Max Vision這些人不應該被關
16:52
And let me be blunt about this.
387
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讓我開門見山地說
16:54
In China, in Russia and in loads of other countries
388
999000
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在中國、俄國和許多國家
16:57
that are developing cyber-offensive capabilities,
389
1002000
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他們都在發展網路攻擊的能力
17:00
this is exactly what they are doing.
390
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他們正在做的是
17:02
They are recruiting hackers
391
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他們在招募駭客
17:04
both before and after they become involved
392
1009000
3000
不管在駭客從事犯罪
17:07
in criminal and industrial espionage activities --
393
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或是工業間諜的之前或之後
17:10
are mobilizing them
394
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他們在用政府的名義
17:12
on behalf of the state.
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在動員他們
17:14
We need to engage
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我們必須全力投入
17:16
and find ways of offering guidance
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並找出方法
17:18
to these young people,
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來引導這些年輕人
17:20
because they are a remarkable breed.
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因爲他們是難得的英才
17:22
And if we rely, as we do at the moment,
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如果我們還像現在一樣
17:24
solely on the criminal justice system
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只是靠司法犯罪系統
17:27
and the threat of punitive sentences,
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和形責罪罰等的威嚇
17:30
we will be nurturing a monster we cannot tame.
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我們最終將培養出我們無法馴服的怪獸
17:33
Thank you very much for listening.
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謝謝你們的聆聽
17:35
(Applause)
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（掌聲）
17:48
Chris Anderson: So your idea worth spreading
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Chris Anderson ：所以你值得傳播的主意
17:50
is hire hackers.
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是去雇用駭客
17:52
How would someone get over that kind of fear
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但是我們該如何消除心中的疑慮恐懼
17:56
that the hacker they hire
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去相信所僱用的駭客
17:58
might preserve that little teensy wormhole?
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不會駭到我們自己的系統呢？
18:00
MG: I think to an extent,
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MG：我想 某種程度上
18:02
you have to understand
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你必須了解
18:04
that it's axiomatic among hackers that they do that.
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一旦變成了駭客 他們就會一直駭下去
18:07
They're just relentless and obsessive
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他們對當駭客這件事
18:10
about what they do.
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是充滿執著又不會放棄的
18:12
But all of the people who I've spoken to
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但所有跟我談過
18:14
who have fallen foul of the law,
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觸犯法律的人
18:16
they have all said, "Please, please give us a chance
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他們都說 “請再給我們一次機會
18:19
to work in the legitimate industry.
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讓我們能再合法地工作
18:22
We just never knew how to get there, what we were doing.
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我們以前不知道我們在做什麽 或是如何合法地工作
18:25
We want to work with you."
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我們想跟你工作"
18:27
Chris Anderson: Okay, well that makes sense. Thanks a lot Misha.
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Chris Anderson ：好吧 這麽說也是有道理 謝謝你 米夏
18:30
(Applause)
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（掌聲）
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Misha Glenny - Underworld investigatorJournalist Misha Glenny leaves no stone unturned (and no failed state unexamined) in his excavation of criminal globalization.
Why you should listen
In minute detail, Misha Glenny's 2008 book McMafia illuminates the byzantine outlines of global organized crime. Whether it's pot smugglers in British Columbia, oil/weapons/people traffickers in Eastern Europe, Japanese yakuza or Nigerian scammers, to research this magisterial work Glenny penetrated the convoluted, globalized and franchised modern underworld -- often at considerable personal risk.
The book that resulted is an exhaustive look at an unseen industry that Glenny believes may account for 15% of the world's GDP.
Legal society ignores this world at its peril, but Glenny suggests that conventional law enforcement might not be able to combat a problem whose roots lie in global instability.
While covering the Central Europe beat for the Guardian and the BBC, Glenny wrote several acclaimed books on the fall of Yugoslavia and the rise of the Balkan nations. He's researching a new book on cybercrime, of which he says: "The key to cybercrime is what we call social engineering. Or to use the technical term for it, there's one born every minute."
Watch TED's exclusive video Q&A with Glenny: "Behind the Scenes of McMafia" >>
Misha Glenny | Speaker | TED.com