TEDGlobal 2014
Joe Madiath: Better toilets, better life
喬‧馬帝亞斯: 更好的衛生設備，更好的生活
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在印度的鄉村地區，衛生設備的缺乏造成了嚴重的臭味問題。 它導致不良的水質，那是印度最大的疾病元兇，而且對婦女造成比例失調的的負面影響。 喬‧馬帝亞斯介紹一個幫助村民幫助他們自己的計劃，通過建造乾淨的、有保護的水和衛生系統，要求所有每一個村民都參與－其顯著的利益包括健康、教育和甚至政府。
Joe Madiath - Social entrepreneur
Joe Madiath brings Indian villagers together around water and sanitation projects. Full bio
Joe Madiath brings Indian villagers together around water and sanitation projects. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:12
It is very fashionable and proper
to speak about food
to speak about food
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談論食物是很時髦且合乎體統的，
00:20
in all its forms, all its colors,
aromas and tastes.
aromas and tastes.
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無論是討論它的各種形狀、
不同顏色、氣味和味道。
不同顏色、氣味和味道。
但是食物經過消化系統後，
00:27
But after the food goes through
the digestive system,
the digestive system,
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00:33
when it is thrown out as crap,
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當它成為廢物被排出時，
00:36
it is no longer fashionable
to speak about it.
to speak about it.
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談論它就不再時髦了。
00:40
It is rather revolting.
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那甚至是令人厭惡的。
00:45
I'm a guy who has graduated
from bullshit to full-shit.
from bullshit to full-shit.
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我是一個從「牛屎」畢業後
成為「全屎」的傢伙。
成為「全屎」的傢伙。
（笑聲）
00:52
(Laughter)
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00:55
My organization, Gram Vikas, which means
"village development organization,"
"village development organization,"
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我的組織，「Gram Vikas」，
意思是「村莊發展組織」，
意思是「村莊發展組織」，
01:02
was working in the area
of renewable energy.
of renewable energy.
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致力於可再生能源方面。
01:05
On the most part, we were
producing biogas,
producing biogas,
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主要是生產沼氣，
01:09
biogas for rural kitchens.
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供給鄉村廚房用的沼氣。
我們在印度用動物糞便生產沼氣，
01:14
We produce biogas in India
by using animal manure,
by using animal manure,
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01:20
which usually, in India,
is called cow dung.
is called cow dung.
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這些動物糞便在印度就是叫做母牛糞。
01:22
But as the gender-sensitive
person that I am,
person that I am,
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但我對性別很敏感，
01:26
I would like to call it bullshit.
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所以我要稱它為公牛糞。
01:29
But realizing later on
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但我後來我了解到
01:31
how important were sanitation
and the disposal of crap in a proper way,
and the disposal of crap in a proper way,
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衛生設備和正確地處理廢物
是非常重要的，
是非常重要的，
01:39
we went into the arena of sanitation.
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我們就進入了衛生設備的領域。
01:45
Eighty percent of all diseases
in India and most developing countries
in India and most developing countries
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在印度和大多數的開發中國家，
所有疾病中的百分之八十
是因為不良品質地水所引起的。
01:53
are because of poor quality water.
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01:57
And when we look at the reason
for poor quality water,
for poor quality water,
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然後當我們調查不良水質的原因時，
02:01
you find that it is our abysmal attitude
to the disposal of human waste.
to the disposal of human waste.
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你會發現原因在於
我們對於處理人類糞便的
我們對於處理人類糞便的
無法想像的態度。
人類糞便以其最原始的形式，
02:08
Human waste, in its rawest form,
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污染了飲用水、洗澡水、洗滌用水、
02:12
finds its way back to drinking water,
bathing water, washing water,
bathing water, washing water,
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灌溉水，幾乎你可看到的所有水。
02:18
irrigation water, whatever water you see.
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02:22
And this is the cause for 80 percent
of the diseases in rural areas.
of the diseases in rural areas.
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而這是在鄉村地區
百分之八十疾病的主因。
百分之八十疾病的主因。
02:29
In India, it is unfortunately only the
women who carry water.
women who carry water.
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在印度，非常不幸的是，
只有婦女在取水。
只有婦女在取水。
所有家用水都由婦女來取水。
02:35
So for all domestic needs,
women have to carry water.
women have to carry water.
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那是一件很可憐的事。
02:40
So that is a pitiable state of affairs.
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公開如廁是很普遍的。
02:46
Open defecation is rampant.
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02:48
Seventy percent of India
defecates in the open.
defecates in the open.
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印度百分之七十的人公開如廁。
02:53
They sit there out in the open,
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他們在戶外如廁，
風吹著，掩藏他們的臉，
02:56
with the wind on their sails,
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02:58
hiding their faces, exposing their bases,
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露出他們的下部，
以原始的榮耀般坐在那裡 －
03:02
and sitting there in pristine glory --
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03:06
70 percent of India.
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百分之七十的印度人都如此。
03:09
And if you look at the world total,
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如果你以世界的全部來統計，
所有丟在戶外的糞便中
有60％是印度人的。
有60％是印度人的。
03:12
60 percent of all the crap that is thrown
into the open is by Indians.
into the open is by Indians.
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多麼奇異的特性。
03:21
A fantastic distinction.
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我不知道我們印度人
是否能對此特性感到自豪。
是否能對此特性感到自豪。
03:23
I don't know if we Indians can be proud
of such a distinction.
of such a distinction.
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03:28
(Laughter)
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（笑聲）
所以我們與許多的鄉村一起，
03:30
So we, together with a lot of villages,
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我們開始討論如何真正地
改善衛生設備的狀況。
改善衛生設備的狀況。
03:32
we began to talk about how to really
address this situation of sanitation.
address this situation of sanitation.
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03:37
And we came together and formed
a project called MANTRA.
a project called MANTRA.
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然後我們一起組成了一個專案，
名為「曼特拉」。
名為「曼特拉」。
「曼特拉」（MANTRA）指代的是
03:42
MANTRA stands for Movement and Action
Network for Transformation of Rural Areas.
Network for Transformation of Rural Areas.
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「鄉村地區改造的運動和行動網」。
03:50
So we are speaking about transformation,
transformation in rural areas.
transformation in rural areas.
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我們討論改造，鄉村地區的改造。
同意執行這個專案的那些鄉村，
03:57
Villages that agree
to implement this project,
to implement this project,
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他們組織一個合法的協會，
由所有會員所組成。
由所有會員所組成。
04:01
they organize a legal society
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04:04
where the general body
consists of all members
consists of all members
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他們選舉一些男人和女人，
04:08
who elect a group of men and women
who implement the project
who implement the project
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作為執行這個專案的個團體，
04:14
and, later on, who look after
the operation and maintenance.
the operation and maintenance.
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以後他們負責操作和維修。
他們決定每戶都要
蓋一間廁所和淋浴間。
蓋一間廁所和淋浴間。
04:19
They decide to build a toilet
and a shower room.
and a shower room.
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並且用一個被保護的水源，
04:24
And from a protected water source,
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水從在架高的蓄水池，
以水管輸送到所有家裡，
以水管輸送到所有家裡，
04:27
water will be brought to an elevated water
reservoir and piped to all households
reservoir and piped to all households
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04:34
through three taps:
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通向三個水龍頭：
一個在廁所、一個在淋浴間、
一個在廚房，每天 24 小時。
一個在廚房，每天 24 小時。
04:37
one in the toilet, one in the shower,
one in the kitchen, 24 hours a day.
one in the kitchen, 24 hours a day.
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04:44
The pity is that our cities,
like New Delhi and Bombay,
like New Delhi and Bombay,
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可惜的是我們的城市，
如新德里和孟買，
如新德里和孟買，
04:48
do not have a 24-hour water supply.
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沒有全天候的自來水供應。
04:52
But in these villages, we want to have it.
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但在這些鄉村裡，我們要有。
04:57
There is a distinct difference
in the quality.
in the quality.
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生活品質上會有明顯的區別。
在印度，有一個理論被政府官僚
和所有相關的人廣泛地接受，
和所有相關的人廣泛地接受，
05:01
Well in India, we have a theory,
which is very much accepted
which is very much accepted
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05:07
by the government bureaucracy
and all those who matter,
and all those who matter,
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05:10
that poor people deserve poor solutions
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他們認為貧窮的人
應該得到差勁的解決方法
應該得到差勁的解決方法
05:15
and absolutely poor people deserve
pathetic solutions.
pathetic solutions.
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最貧窮的人就應該得到
可悲的解決方法。
可悲的解決方法。
05:22
This, combined with
a Nobel Prize-worthy theory that
a Nobel Prize-worthy theory that
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這個理論與一個配得上
諾貝爾獎的理論相結合，
諾貝爾獎的理論相結合，
即『最便宜就是最經濟的』。
05:28
the cheapest is the most economic,
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05:30
is the heady cocktail that the poor
are forced to drink.
are forced to drink.
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所以窮人被迫喝『污水雞尾酒』。
05:38
We are fighting against this.
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我們在抗爭這一點。
05:40
We feel that the poor have been
humiliated for centuries.
humiliated for centuries.
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我們覺得窮人在數世紀以來
就一直被羞辱。
就一直被羞辱。
05:46
And even in sanitation,
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然而在衛生設備，
05:49
they should not be humiliated.
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他們不應被羞辱。
05:51
Sanitation is more about dignity
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衛生設備事關尊嚴，
而非僅僅是人類如何處理糞便。
而非僅僅是人類如何處理糞便。
05:54
than about human disposal of waste.
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所以我們蓋這些廁所，
05:56
And so you build these toilets
and very often,
and very often,
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我們經常聽說，廁所比他們的房子還好。
06:01
we have to hear that the toilets are
better than their houses.
better than their houses.
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你可以看到的是，
房子在前面，其他的就是廁所。
房子在前面，其他的就是廁所。
06:07
And you can see that in front are
the attached houses
the attached houses
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06:11
and the others are the toilets.
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06:14
So these people, without a single
exception of a family in a village,
exception of a family in a village,
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這些人，沒有一個例外，
村裡的每一個家庭，
村裡的每一個家庭，
06:20
decide to build a toilet, a bathing room.
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都決定要蓋一個廁所、一個浴室。
06:24
And for that, they come together,
collect all the local materials --
collect all the local materials --
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為此，他們聚集在一起，
收集所有當地的材料 --
收集所有當地的材料 --
當地的材料如瓦礫、沙、聚合物，
06:30
local materials like rubble,
sand, aggregates,
sand, aggregates,
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通常政府會提供補貼，
06:35
usually a government subsidy is available
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06:38
to meet at least part of the cost
of external materials
of external materials
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来支付一部分外用材料的成本，
06:41
like cement, steel, toilet commode.
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如水泥、鋼筋、馬桶。
06:46
And they build a toilet
and a bathing room.
and a bathing room.
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他們以此蓋廁所和浴室。
06:50
Also, all the unskilled laborers, that is
daily wage earners, mostly landless,
daily wage earners, mostly landless,
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同時，所有非技術勞工，
就是每日打零工生活者，
主要是沒有土地者，
主要是沒有土地者，
06:56
are given an opportunity to be
trained as masons and plumbers.
trained as masons and plumbers.
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得到被訓練成为
泥水匠和水管工人的機會。
泥水匠和水管工人的機會。
07:04
So while these people are being trained,
others are collecting the materials.
others are collecting the materials.
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當這些人在接受訓練時，
其他人就收集材料。
其他人就收集材料。
然後當兩者都準備好時，
07:09
And when both are ready,
they build a toilet, a shower room,
they build a toilet, a shower room,
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他們就蓋了一個廁所和一個浴室，
07:14
and of course also a water tower,
an elevated water reservoir.
an elevated water reservoir.
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當然也包括一個水塔，
一個挑高的蓄水池。
一個挑高的蓄水池。
我們用兩個浸出坑的系統來處理廢水。
07:21
We use a system of two leach pits
to treat the waste.
to treat the waste.
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07:27
From the toilet, the muck comes
into the first leach pit.
into the first leach pit.
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從廁所，糞便進入第一個浸出坑的。
07:31
And when it is full, it is blocked
and it can go to the next.
and it can go to the next.
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當第一個浸出坑滿的時候，
糞便就流入第二個。
糞便就流入第二個。
我們發現，如果你在
這兩個浸出坑的周圍
這兩個浸出坑的周圍
07:36
But we discovered that if you plant
banana trees, papaya trees
banana trees, papaya trees
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種香蕉樹和木瓜樹的話，
07:41
on the periphery of these leach pits,
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它們就會長得很好，
因為它們有所有的營養，
因為它們有所有的營養，
07:44
they grow very well
because they suck up all the nutrients
because they suck up all the nutrients
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07:47
and you get very tasty bananas, papayas.
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会成为很好吃的香蕉和木瓜。
各位如果到我家，
07:53
If any of you come to my place,
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我會很樂意拿這些
香蕉和木瓜與你分享。
香蕉和木瓜與你分享。
07:56
I would be happy to share
these bananas and papayas with you.
these bananas and papayas with you.
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這是完工後的廁所和水塔。
08:01
So there you can see
the completed toilets, the water towers.
the completed toilets, the water towers.
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這是在一個幾乎所有居民
都是文盲的鄉村。
都是文盲的鄉村。
08:07
This is in a village where
most of the people are even illiterate.
most of the people are even illiterate.
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那裡有全天候的供水
08:13
It is always a 24-hour water supply
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08:15
because water gets polluted
very often when you store it --
very often when you store it --
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因為當你儲存水的話
水很快就被污染 --
水很快就被污染 --
08:21
a child dips his or her hand into it,
something falls into it.
something falls into it.
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例如小孩用手伸進去，
或者東西掉進去。
或者東西掉進去。
08:26
So no water is stored. It's always on tap.
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因此他們都不儲藏水，都用自來水。
這是挑高的蓄水塔建造的方法。
08:33
This is how an elevated
water reservoir is constructed.
water reservoir is constructed.
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然後這是完成品。
08:37
And that is the end product.
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因為它必須放在高的地方，
所以下面就有一些空間，
所以下面就有一些空間，
08:39
Because it has to go high,
and there is some space available,
and there is some space available,
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在水塔下我們建造了兩三個房間，
08:44
two or three rooms are made
under the water tower,
under the water tower,
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用來做村民開會的地方。
08:47
which are used by the village for
different committee meetings.
different committee meetings.
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我們有很清楚的證據
证明這個計畫效果显著。
证明這個計畫效果显著。
08:51
We have had clear evidence
of the great impact of this program.
of the great impact of this program.
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08:58
Before we started, there were, as usual,
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在我們開始以前，
那里一直有多於百分之八十的人
09:02
more than 80 percent of people suffering
from waterborne diseases.
from waterborne diseases.
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得到藉由水傳染的疾病。
09:07
But after this, we have empirical evidence
that 82 percent, on average,
that 82 percent, on average,
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這以後，我們有實證
證明在這些鄉村裡，
平均有82%的村民 --
平均有82%的村民 --
09:14
among all these villages --
1,200 villages have completed it --
1,200 villages have completed it --
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共1200個鄉村完成了這個計畫 --
藉由水傳染的疾病減少了82%。
09:18
waterborne diseases
have come down 82 percent.
have come down 82 percent.
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09:23
(Applause)
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（掌聲）
09:30
Women usually used to spend,
especially in the summer months,
especially in the summer months,
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以前婦女通常，
特別是在夏天的時候，
特別是在夏天的時候，
每天大約花6到7個小時取水。
09:35
about six to seven hours
a day carrying water.
a day carrying water.
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09:43
And when they went to carry water,
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當她們去取水的時候，
如我前面提到，
09:46
because, as I said earlier,
it's only women who carry water,
it's only women who carry water,
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因為只有婦女去取水，
她們通常會帶著孩子們、
女兒們一起去取水，
女兒們一起去取水，
09:52
they used to take their little children,
girl children, also to carry water,
girl children, also to carry water,
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09:58
or else to be back at home
to look after the siblings.
to look after the siblings.
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或者讓她們在家看顧小孩。
因此女孩上学的比例不到百分之九，
10:03
So there were less than nine percent
of girl children attending school,
of girl children attending school,
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10:07
even if there was a school.
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即使村裡有學校。
10:10
And boys, about 30 percent.
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男孩子約百分之三十。
現在女孩子已提高到90%，男孩幾乎100%。
10:13
But girls, it has gone to about 90 percent
and boys, almost to 100 percent.
and boys, almost to 100 percent.
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（掌聲）
10:20
(Applause)
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在鄉村最脆弱的部分，
10:24
The most vulnerable section in a village
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是那些無土地做零工的勞工。
10:28
are the landless laborers who are
the daily wage-earners.
the daily wage-earners.
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10:32
Because they have gone
through this training
through this training
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因為他們得到訓練，
成為水泥匠、水管工和彎管工，
成為水泥匠、水管工和彎管工，
10:34
to be masons and plumbers and bar benders,
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10:38
now their ability to earn has
increased 300 to 400 percent.
increased 300 to 400 percent.
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現在他們的謀生能力
增加了300%到400%。
增加了300%到400%。
10:46
So this is a democracy in action
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這就是一個採取行動的民主，
10:49
because there is a general body,
a governing board, the committee.
a governing board, the committee.
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因為那裡有人民組成的團體、
一個管理的董事會，也就是委員會。
一個管理的董事會，也就是委員會。
10:53
People are questioning,
people are governing themselves,
people are governing themselves,
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人們質疑，管理他們自己，
並學習管理他們的事務，
並學習管理他們的事務，
10:56
people are learning to manage
their own affairs,
their own affairs,
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10:59
they are taking their own futures
into their hands.
into their hands.
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他們自己掌握他們自己的將來。
11:02
And that is democracy at
the grassroots level in action.
the grassroots level in action.
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這就是正在行動中的草根民主。
到目前，超過 1200 個鄉村
已進行這個計劃。
已進行這個計劃。
11:10
More than 1,200 villages
have so far done this.
have so far done this.
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11:17
It benefits over 400,000 people
and it's still going on.
and it's still going on.
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這個計劃已讓超過 40 萬人受益，
並且還在繼續進行當中。
11:22
And I hope it continues to move ahead.
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我希望這個計劃會繼續進行下去。
11:29
For India and such developing countries,
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對印度和類似的開發中國家，
11:34
armies and armaments,
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軍隊和軍備，軟體公司，和太空船
11:39
software companies and spaceships
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11:48
may not be as important
as taps and toilets.
as taps and toilets.
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不如自來水和廁所來得重要。
11:54
Thank you. Thank you very much.
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謝謝。非常感謝。
11:57
(Applause)
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（掌聲）
謝謝。
12:01
Thank you.
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ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Joe Madiath - Social entrepreneurJoe Madiath brings Indian villagers together around water and sanitation projects.
Why you should listen
When he was 12, Joe Madiath unionized young workers to fight for better work conditions. They were employed by... his own father. He was therefore sent away to a boarding school. After his studies, travels across India, and participating in relief work afer a devastating cyclone, in 1979 he founded Gram Vikas. The name translates to "village development" in both Hindi and Oriya, the language of the state of Orissa, where the organization is primarily active.
The bulk of Gram Vikas' efforts are on water and sanitation. The organization's approach is based on partnership with villagers and gender equity. In order to benefit from Gram Vikas' support to install water and sanitation systems, the entire village community needs to commit to participate in the planning, construction and maintenance, and all villagers, regardless of social, economic or caste status, will have access to the same facilities. This requirement of 100 percent participation is difficult, Madiath acknowledges, but it leads to socially equitable and long-term solutions. Gram Vikas has already reached over 1,200 communities and over 400,000 people.
Joe Madiath | Speaker | TED.com