TEDGlobal>Geneva
António Guterres: Refugees have the right to be protected
安東尼奧．古特雷斯: 難民享有受到保護的權利
Filmed:
Readability: 4.6
1,188,210 views
聯合國難民事務署高級專員安東尼奧．古特雷斯認為，我們能夠解決全球難民危機，對於為何我們必須努力嘗試的原因，他給出了出乎意料卻無可反駁的理由。在與TED布魯諾．吉烏撒尼的對談中，古特雷斯討論了當前危機的歷史根源，並概述了那些致力於庇護、收容、安置成千上萬處於絕望之中的家庭的歐洲國家當下的氛圍。從大局出發，古特雷斯呼籲各國展開包容與尊重，以對抗ISIS等極端組織的反難民宣傳和招募機制。
António Guterres - Designate Secretary-General of the United Nations
António Guterres is at the forefront of advocating for refugee rights around the world. Full bio
António Guterres is at the forefront of advocating for refugee rights around the world. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:12
Bruno Giussani: Commissioner,
thank you for coming to TED.
thank you for coming to TED.
0
373
2799
布魯諾．吉烏撒尼：
委員，感謝您來到 TED 。
委員，感謝您來到 TED 。
安東尼奧．古特雷斯：榮幸之至。
00:15
António Guterres: Pleasure.
1
3196
1317
00:16
BG: Let's start with a figure.
2
4537
1452
BG: 讓我們從數據開始。
00:18
During 2015, almost one million refugees
and migrants arrived in Europe
and migrants arrived in Europe
3
6013
4141
2015年期間，將近有 100 萬難民和移民
從不同國家湧入歐洲，
00:22
from many different countries,
4
10178
1475
00:23
of course, from Syria and Iraq,
but also from Afghanistan
but also from Afghanistan
5
11677
2698
當然，也有來自敘利亞及伊拉克，
也有來自於阿富汗、
也有來自於阿富汗、
00:26
and Bangladesh and Eritrea and elsewhere.
6
14399
2462
孟加拉、厄立特里亞等其他國家的。
00:28
And there have been reactions
of two different kinds:
of two different kinds:
7
16885
2500
人民對此亦有兩種不同的反應：
00:31
welcoming parties and border fences.
8
19409
3715
有歡迎的國家也有拒絕的國家。
00:35
But I want to look at it a little bit
9
23148
2057
但我想從短期和長期的角度
00:37
from the short-term
and the long-term perspective.
and the long-term perspective.
10
25229
2830
來探討這個問題。
00:40
And the first question is very simple:
11
28083
3492
第一條問題十分簡單：
00:43
Why has the movement of refugees
spiked so fast in the last six months?
spiked so fast in the last six months?
12
31599
4468
為何難民潮近六個月急速增加？
00:48
AG: Well, I think, basically,
what triggered this huge increase
what triggered this huge increase
13
36091
3293
AG：我認為，基本上，會有這麼大的升幅
主要是由敘利亞的難民所引發的。
00:51
was the Syrian refugee group.
14
39408
1921
00:53
There has been an increased movement
into Europe from Africa, from Asia,
into Europe from Africa, from Asia,
15
41353
4736
來自非洲或亞洲移入歐洲的移民數
一直以來都在增長，
一直以來都在增長，
00:58
but slowly growing, and all of a sudden
we had this massive increase
we had this massive increase
16
46113
3826
但成長得很慢，但突然間，
今年年初的幾個月，移民數量突然增加。
01:01
in the first months of this year.
17
49963
2434
01:04
Why? I think there are three reasons,
18
52421
1868
為什麼？我認為有三個原因，
01:06
two long-term ones and the trigger.
19
54313
2033
兩個是長期因素及一個是觸發點。
01:08
The long-term ones,
in relation to Syrians,
in relation to Syrians,
20
56370
2548
長期因素與敘利亞人有關，
01:10
is that hope is less and less
clear for people.
clear for people.
21
58942
6607
他們越來越看不到希望。
我意思是，他們雖然看著自己的國家，
01:17
I mean, they look at their own country
22
65573
2032
01:19
and they don't see much hope
to go back home,
to go back home,
23
67629
2681
但看不到回家的希望，
01:22
because there is no political solution,
24
70334
1945
因為政治上沒有解決方法，
01:24
so there is no light
at the end of the tunnel.
at the end of the tunnel.
25
72303
3055
像看不見隧道的盡頭一樣。
01:27
Second, the living conditions
26
75382
1624
第二，敘利亞難民
01:29
of the Syrians in the neighboring
countries have been deteriorating.
countries have been deteriorating.
27
77030
3326
在鄰近國家的生存條件持續惡化。
01:32
We just had research with the World Bank,
28
80380
2253
我們剛和世界銀行做了研究，
01:34
and 87 percent of the Syrians in Jordan
29
82657
4336
87%住在約旦的敘利亞人
01:39
and 93 percent of the Syrians in Lebanon
30
87017
2901
和97%住坐在黎巴嫩的敘利亞人
01:41
live below the national poverty lines.
31
89942
2862
均生活於全國的貧困線之下。
01:44
Only half of the children go to school,
32
92828
2933
只有一半的兒童能上學，
01:47
which means that people
are living very badly.
are living very badly.
33
95785
3022
這表示人民生活十分艱辛
01:50
Not only are they refugees, out of home,
34
98831
1924
不僅僅是因為是難民們離鄉背井，
01:52
not only have they suffered
what they have suffered,
what they have suffered,
35
100779
2452
還有一直遭受著的磨難，
01:55
but they are living in very,
very dramatic conditions.
very dramatic conditions.
36
103255
2569
他們同時還生活在非常
非常困苦的條件中。
非常困苦的條件中。
01:57
And then the trigger
was when all of a sudden,
was when all of a sudden,
37
105848
2320
再來就是這個觸發點
突然之間國際援助減少了
02:00
international aid decreased.
38
108192
1703
02:01
The World Food Programme was forced,
for lack of resources,
for lack of resources,
39
109919
2793
由於資源匱乏，世界糧食計劃署被迫
02:04
to cut by 30 percent food support
to the Syrian refugees.
to the Syrian refugees.
40
112736
3064
減少30%對敘利亞難民的食物供給。
02:07
They're not allowed to work,
41
115824
1423
難民不被允許工作，
02:09
so they are totally dependent
on international support,
on international support,
42
117271
3528
所以他們完全依賴國際支援
02:12
and they felt, "The world
is abandoning us."
is abandoning us."
43
120823
2304
他們更覺得：「世界正在遺棄我們」
02:15
And that, in my opinion, was the trigger.
44
123151
1960
我認為這就是觸發點。
02:17
All of a sudden, there was a rush,
45
125135
1635
突然之間，風湧而至，
02:18
and people started to move
in large numbers
in large numbers
46
126794
2015
人們開始大批遷移。
02:20
and, to be absolutely honest,
47
128833
1558
說真的，
02:22
if I had been in the same situation
48
130415
2199
如果我也面臨相同的狀況，
02:24
and I would have been brave
enough to do it,
enough to do it,
49
132638
2107
並且有足夠的勇氣，
02:26
I think I would have done the same.
50
134769
1703
我也會那樣做的。
02:28
BG: But I think what surprised
many people is it's not only sudden,
many people is it's not only sudden,
51
136496
4265
BG：不過我認為令人意外的
並不僅僅是事發突然，
並不僅僅是事發突然，
而是事情本不該發生得如此突然。
02:32
but it wasn't supposed to be sudden.
52
140785
2200
02:35
The war in Syria has been
happening for five years.
happening for five years.
53
143009
2413
敘利亞的戰爭已經五年了。
02:37
Millions of refugees are in camps
and villages and towns around Syria.
and villages and towns around Syria.
54
145446
3660
上百萬的難民居住在敘利亞
周邊的難民營、村莊及城鎮
周邊的難民營、村莊及城鎮
02:41
You have yourself warned
about the situation
about the situation
55
149130
2380
您自己也曾提醒過
會有這種狀況，
會有這種狀況，
02:43
and about the consequences
of a breakdown of Libya, for example,
of a breakdown of Libya, for example,
56
151534
3283
還有，像是您有提到利比亞政府垮台的結果
02:46
and yet Europe looked totally unprepared.
57
154841
3039
但是歐洲看起來似乎毫無準備。
AG:：毫無準備是因為意見分歧，
02:50
AG: Well, unprepared because divided,
58
158618
2459
02:53
and when you are divided,
you don't want to recognize the reality.
you don't want to recognize the reality.
59
161101
3278
當你意見分歧又不想面對現實時
你就會選擇遲一點再決定，
02:56
You prefer to postpone decisions,
60
164403
1857
02:58
because you do not have
the capacity to make them.
the capacity to make them.
61
166284
2436
因為你沒有能力接納那麼多難民。
03:00
And the proof is that even when
the spike occurred,
the spike occurred,
62
168744
3462
證據是，即使當移民潮發生後，
03:04
Europe remained divided
63
172230
1303
歐洲各國仍然意見分歧，
03:05
and was unable to put in place
a mechanism to manage the situation.
a mechanism to manage the situation.
64
173557
5669
也未能提出適當的機制來管理局面
03:11
You talk about one million people.
65
179250
1691
你剛剛提到有 100 萬難民，
03:12
It looks enormous,
66
180965
1571
看起來很多，
03:14
but the population of the European Union
is 550 million people,
is 550 million people,
67
182560
4500
但歐盟總人口數是 5.5 億，
03:19
which means we are talking about one
per every 2,000 Europeans.
per every 2,000 Europeans.
68
187084
4365
即每2000個歐洲人對應1個難民。
03:23
Now, in Lebanon, we have one refugee
per three Lebanese.
per three Lebanese.
69
191473
3929
在黎巴嫩，每三個黎巴嫩人
就要應對一個難民。
就要應對一個難民。
03:27
And Lebanon? Struggling,
of course, but it's managing.
of course, but it's managing.
70
195426
4231
而黎巴嫩？很艱辛，當然，但是他們做到了。
03:31
So, the question is: is this something
that could have been managed
that could have been managed
71
199681
4266
所以問題是：這些是本應可以控制
03:35
if -- not mentioning the most
important thing,
important thing,
72
203971
3021
--暫時先不提最重要而且
03:39
which would have been
addressing the root causes,
addressing the root causes,
73
207016
2372
一直被強調的根本原因
03:41
but forgetting about root causes for now,
74
209412
1976
現在也先不要管問題的成因，
03:43
looking at the phenomenon as it is --
75
211412
1825
就只看現象本身--
03:45
if Europe were able to come
together in solidarity
together in solidarity
76
213261
4290
歐洲是否能團結一致
03:49
to create an adequate
reception capacity of entry points?
reception capacity of entry points?
77
217575
4140
在入境處創造充足的接納能力？
03:53
But for that, the countries at entry
points need to be massively supported,
points need to be massively supported,
78
221739
4684
但要做到如此，
各國的入境處需要被大量的支援，
各國的入境處需要被大量的支援，
03:58
and then screening the people
with security checks
with security checks
79
226447
3005
然後對入境難民進行安檢，
04:01
and all the other mechanisms,
80
229476
1405
並配合其他機制
04:02
distributing those that are coming
into all European countries,
into all European countries,
81
230905
3505
及根據每個國家的能力
來分配這些湧入歐洲的難民，
04:06
according to the possibilities
of each country.
of each country.
82
234434
2233
04:08
I mean, if you look at
the relocation program
the relocation program
83
236691
2276
我的意思是，如果你去看一下
委員會批准的重新安置計劃，
委員會批准的重新安置計劃，
04:10
that was approved by the Commission,
always too little too late,
always too little too late,
84
238991
3063
總是太少、太遲
04:14
or by the Council, too little too late --
85
242078
1922
或者由市議會批准的
也是太少、太遲
也是太少、太遲
04:16
BG: It's already breaking down.
86
244024
1485
BG：現在已經失敗了
04:17
AG: My country is supposed
to receive four thousand.
to receive four thousand.
87
245533
2457
AG：我的國家原本應該接收四千人
04:20
Four thousand in Portugal means nothing.
88
248014
2007
四千人對葡萄牙來說不算什麼。
04:22
So this is perfectly manageable
if it is managed,
if it is managed,
89
250045
3769
所以說，如果處理得當，
難民都可以得到妥善安置。
難民都可以得到妥善安置。
04:25
but in the present circumstances,
the pressure is at the point of entry,
the pressure is at the point of entry,
90
253838
3410
但現在是入境處壓力很大
04:29
and then, as people move
in this chaotic way through the Balkans,
in this chaotic way through the Balkans,
91
257272
3459
之後難民毫無秩序地穿過巴爾幹，
04:32
then they come to Germany,
Sweden, basically, and Austria.
Sweden, basically, and Austria.
92
260755
3346
來到德國、瑞典及奧地利，
04:36
They are the three countries that are,
in the end, receiving the refugees.
in the end, receiving the refugees.
93
264125
3506
只有這三個國家接收難民。
04:39
The rest of Europe is looking
without doing much.
without doing much.
94
267655
2532
其它歐洲國家只是冷眼旁觀。
04:42
BG: Let me try to bring up
three questions,
three questions,
95
270211
2359
BG: 讓我再問三個問題，
04:44
playing a bit devil's advocate.
96
272594
1497
扮演一下魔鬼的支持者，
04:46
I'll try to ask them, make them blunt.
97
274115
2922
我會嘗試問問題，讓他們頭昏腦脹，
04:49
But I think the questions are very present
98
277061
2039
但我認為這個問題在
歐洲很多人的心理面
歐洲很多人的心理面
04:51
in the minds of many people
in Europe right now,
in Europe right now,
99
279124
2253
是個相當現實的問題。
04:53
The first, of course, is about numbers.
100
281401
1931
首先，當然是難民的數字
04:55
You say 550 million versus one million
is not much, but realistically,
is not much, but realistically,
101
283356
4806
你說5.5億比100萬不算多，但現實上
歐洲可容納多少人？
05:00
how many people can Europe take?
102
288186
1950
05:02
AG: Well, that is a question
that has no answer,
that has no answer,
103
290160
3512
AG：這個問題沒有答案
05:05
because refugees have
the right to be protected.
the right to be protected.
104
293696
3545
因為難民有權被受保護。
國際法中也有這樣的規定，
05:09
And there is such a thing
as international law,
as international law,
105
297947
3167
05:13
so there is no way you can say,
"I take 10,000 and that's finished."
"I take 10,000 and that's finished."
106
301138
4369
所以你不能說：
「我只收一萬人，不要再來了」
「我只收一萬人，不要再來了」
05:17
I remind you of one thing:
107
305531
1787
我提醒你一件事：
05:19
in Turkey, at the beginning of the crisis,
I remember one minister saying,
I remember one minister saying,
108
307342
3876
土耳其在危機開始前，記得有位部長說，
05:23
"Turkey will be able to receive
up to 100,000 people."
up to 100,000 people."
109
311242
2975
“ 土耳其最多只能接納10萬人。”
05:26
Turkey has now two million
three-hundred thousand
three-hundred thousand
110
314241
3445
但現在，大約共有230萬難民
05:29
or something of the sort,
if you count all refugees.
if you count all refugees.
111
317710
2448
居住在土耳其。
05:32
So I don't think it's fair to say
how many we can take.
how many we can take.
112
320182
4189
所以我覺得，我認為我們不應該討論
歐洲能接納多少難民，
歐洲能接納多少難民，
05:36
What it is fair to say is:
how we can we organize ourselves
how we can we organize ourselves
113
324395
3546
而是應該討論的是：
我們要如何組織自己
我們要如何組織自己
05:39
to assume our international
responsibilities?
responsibilities?
114
327965
2745
來履行我們的國際責任。
05:42
And Europe has not been able to do so,
115
330734
2450
歐洲還不能做到這一點，
05:45
because basically, Europe is divided
because there is no solidarity
because there is no solidarity
116
333208
3551
因為基本上，歐洲是分裂的，
並沒有團結起來共同解決歐洲問題。
05:48
in the European project.
117
336783
1179
05:49
And it's not only about refugees;
there are many other areas.
there are many other areas.
118
337986
3126
而且不僅是在難民問題上，
在其他領域也是。
在其他領域也是。
05:53
And let's be honest, this is the moment
in which we need more Europe
in which we need more Europe
119
341136
3634
我們說實話，現在這個時刻，
我們需要更多歐洲國家參與，而非更少。
05:56
instead of less Europe.
120
344794
1536
05:58
But as the public less and less believes
in European institutions,
in European institutions,
121
346354
4619
但因為大家越來越不相信歐盟機構，
06:02
it is also each time more difficult
to convince the public
to convince the public
122
350997
3282
所以當要說服人們，我們需要更多歐盟國家來解決問題的時候
06:06
that we need more Europe
to solve these problems.
to solve these problems.
123
354303
2302
就越來越困難。
06:08
BG: We seem to be at the point
124
356629
1447
BG：我們似乎在一個情況下
06:10
where the numbers turn into political
shifts, particularly domestically.
shifts, particularly domestically.
125
358100
3411
就是難民數量會引響政策轉移，
特別是國家內政。
特別是國家內政。
06:13
We saw it again this weekend in France,
126
361535
1872
比如這個周末，
我們又再次看到法國頒布的政策，
我們又再次看到法國頒布的政策，
06:15
but we have seen it over
and over in many countries:
and over in many countries:
127
363431
2452
我們也有看到其他國家也有這種狀況：
06:17
in Poland and in Denmark
and in Switzerland and elsewhere,
and in Switzerland and elsewhere,
128
365907
2733
比如波蘭、丹麥、瑞士，等等，
06:20
where the mood changes radically
because of the numbers,
because of the numbers,
129
368664
3549
因為難民的數量而突然轉變，
06:24
although they are not very significant
in absolute numbers.
in absolute numbers.
130
372237
6210
雖然他們在絕對數字上
改變並不明顯，
改變並不明顯，
06:30
The Prime Minister of --
131
378471
2053
（某國的）首相……
AG：請容許我插句話，
我談一下這些事：
我談一下這些事：
06:32
AG: But, if I may, on these:
132
380548
1722
06:34
I mean, what does a European see at home
133
382294
3301
我的意思是，在歐洲一個
沒有移民的小村莊里，
沒有移民的小村莊里，
06:37
in a village where there are no migrants?
134
385619
2596
人們在家裡能明白甚麼？
06:40
What a European sees is, on television,
135
388239
4628
在幾個月前的每一天，
打開電視新聞播的，
06:44
every single day, a few months ago,
opening the news every single day,
opening the news every single day,
136
392891
4400
就是大量人群湧入，不受控制，
06:49
a crowd coming, uncontrolled,
137
397315
2438
從這個邊境到那個邊境，
06:51
moving from border to border,
138
399777
1740
06:53
and the images on television
were of hundreds
were of hundreds
139
401541
2180
電視畫面裡就是
06:55
or thousands of people moving.
140
403745
1667
成千上百的人湧入歐洲。
06:57
And the idea is that nobody
is taking care of it --
is taking care of it --
141
405436
3180
那狀況就好像沒人在乎這件事一樣--
07:00
this is happening without any
kind of management.
kind of management.
142
408640
3349
事情發生了，沒人要管理。
07:04
And so their idea was,
"They are coming to my village."
"They are coming to my village."
143
412013
2825
所以，他們會有一種想法就是，
＂他們要來我的村莊了。＂
＂他們要來我的村莊了。＂
07:06
So there was this completely false idea
that Europe was being invaded
that Europe was being invaded
144
414862
4073
所以就有了一種完全錯誤的想法：
歐洲要被侵略了，
歐洲要被侵略了，
07:10
and our way of life is going to change,
and everything will --
and everything will --
145
418959
3761
而我們的生活將會改變，所有事情都會--
07:14
And the problem is that if this
had been properly managed,
had been properly managed,
146
422744
3865
問題在於，如果一切都能被妥善管理，
07:18
if people had been properly received,
147
426633
1862
如果難民被適當地接收、歡迎
07:20
welcomed, sheltered at point of entry,
screened at point of entry,
screened at point of entry,
148
428519
4715
在入境處接受安檢、安置，
07:25
and the moved by plane
to different European countries,
to different European countries,
149
433258
2689
然後坐飛機送往其他歐洲國家，
07:27
this would not have scared people.
150
435971
2158
這樣就不會讓人們害怕了。
07:30
But, unfortunately, we have
a lot of people scared,
a lot of people scared,
151
438153
2643
但，很不幸，我們有很多人都很害怕，
07:32
just because Europe was not able
to do the job properly.
to do the job properly.
152
440820
3023
就是因為歐洲沒適當地處理問題。
07:35
BG: But there are villages in Germany
153
443867
1992
BG：但，德國有一些300人居住的村莊，
07:37
with 300 inhabitants and 1,000 refugees.
154
445883
3336
卻有1000個難民。
07:41
So, what's your position?
155
449243
1974
您對此是怎麼看的？
07:43
How do you imagine these people reacting?
156
451241
1967
您覺得當地居民會作何反應？
07:45
AG: If there would be a proper
management of the situation
management of the situation
157
453232
2873
AG：這種狀況如果有適當的管理措施，
07:48
and the proper distribution
of people all over Europe,
of people all over Europe,
158
456129
3080
把難民適當地送往歐洲各國，
07:51
you would always have
the percentage that I mentioned:
the percentage that I mentioned:
159
459233
2976
你就會有一個我剛剛提到的比例：
07:54
one per each 2,000.
160
462233
1802
1:2000。
07:56
It is because things are not
properly managed
properly managed
161
464059
2269
那是因為沒有適當的管理，
07:58
that in the end we have situations
162
466352
1760
造成我們最後
08:00
that are totally impossible to live with,
and of course if you have a village --
and of course if you have a village --
163
468136
6417
完全不可能一起生活的情況，
當然，如果你有這樣的村莊--
當然，如果你有這樣的村莊--
08:06
in Lebanon, there are many villages
164
474577
1677
在黎巴嫩，有許多這樣的村莊，
08:08
that have more Syrians than Lebanese;
Lebanon has been living with that.
Lebanon has been living with that.
165
476278
3408
敘利亞人比黎巴嫩人還要多。
黎巴嫩也適應了這種情形。
黎巴嫩也適應了這種情形。
08:11
I'm not asking for the same
to happen in Europe,
to happen in Europe,
166
479710
2267
我並不是要求歐洲都比照辦理，
08:14
for all European villages to have
more refugees than inhabitants.
more refugees than inhabitants.
167
482001
3187
讓所有歐洲的村莊
都接收比當地居民更多的難民。
都接收比當地居民更多的難民。
08:17
What I am asking is for Europe
to do the job properly,
to do the job properly,
168
485212
3055
我是希望歐洲把工作做好，
08:20
and to be able to organize itself
to receive people
to receive people
169
488291
3421
能夠有規劃地接收難民，
08:23
as other countries in the world
were forced to do in the past.
were forced to do in the past.
170
491736
2928
就像過去世界上其他國家
被強迫做的那樣。
被強迫做的那樣。
08:26
BG: So, if you look at the global
situation not only at Europe --
situation not only at Europe --
171
494688
3064
BG:：如果我們看一下全球局勢，
而不僅僅是歐洲……
而不僅僅是歐洲……
08:29
(Applause)
172
497776
1289
（掌聲）
08:31
BG: Yes!
173
499089
1151
BG：
08:32
(Applause)
174
500264
4634
（掌聲）
08:36
BG: If you look at the global situation,
so, not only at Europe,
so, not only at Europe,
175
504922
3021
BG：如果我們看一下全球局勢，
而不僅是歐洲，
而不僅是歐洲，
08:39
I know you can make
a long list of countries
a long list of countries
176
507967
2104
我知道你可以列出一長條
08:42
that are not really stepping up,
177
510095
3123
沒有真正站出來的國家清單，
08:45
but I'm more interested
in the other part --
in the other part --
178
513242
2448
但我比較有興趣的是另一方，
08:47
is there somebody
who's doing the right thing?
who's doing the right thing?
179
515714
2190
有沒有哪些國家是做正確的事呢？
08:50
AG: Well, 86 percent
of the refugees in the world
of the refugees in the world
180
518402
2431
AG：有的，全世界有86%的難民
08:52
are in the developing world.
181
520857
2055
居住在發展中國家。
08:54
And if you look at
countries like Ethiopia --
countries like Ethiopia --
182
522936
3320
如果你注意看一些國家，
像是衣索比亞--
像是衣索比亞--
08:58
Ethiopia has received
more than 600,000 refugees.
more than 600,000 refugees.
183
526280
3777
他們已經接收了超過60萬名的難民。
所有衣索比亞的邊境都是開放的
09:02
All the borders in Ethiopia are open.
184
530486
2016
09:05
And they have, as a policy,
185
533304
1868
而他們有一項名為
“ 人民互助 ”的政策
“ 人民互助 ”的政策
09:07
they call the "people to people" policy
that every refugee should be received.
that every refugee should be received.
186
535196
4096
說明每一位難民都應該被接納。
09:11
And they have South Sudanese,
187
539316
1579
還有南蘇丹、
09:12
they have Sudanese, they have Somalis.
188
540919
2008
蘇丹、索馬里亞。
09:14
They have all the neighbors.
189
542951
1857
他們接收來自所有鄰近國家的難民，
09:16
They have Eritreans.
190
544832
1764
包括厄立特里亞。
總體來說，
09:18
And, in general,
191
546929
1295
09:20
African countries are extremely
welcoming of refugees coming,
welcoming of refugees coming,
192
548248
4180
非洲國家非常歡迎難民的到來，
09:24
and I would say that in the Middle East
193
552452
2572
而我也會這麼說，在中東和亞洲，
09:27
and in Asia, we have seen a tendency
for borders to be open.
for borders to be open.
194
555048
5193
我們也看到了敞開國門的趨勢。
現在，我們看到敘利亞還有一些問題，
09:32
Now we see some problems
with the Syrian situation,
with the Syrian situation,
195
560265
3365
09:35
as the Syrian situation evolved
into also a major security crisis,
into also a major security crisis,
196
563654
4257
就是敘利亞也捲入了
嚴重的安全危機。
嚴重的安全危機。
09:39
but the truth is that for a large period,
197
567935
2093
但事實是有很長一段時間，
09:42
all borders in the Middle East were open.
198
570052
1992
中東各國的邊境都是開放的。
09:44
The truth is that for Afghans,
199
572068
1452
當時巴基斯坦和伊朗的邊境
09:45
the borders of Pakistan and Iran
were open for, at the time,
were open for, at the time,
200
573544
2833
開放給600萬阿富汗人
09:48
six million Afghans that came.
201
576401
1893
進入這兩個國家。
09:50
So I would say that even today,
the trend in the developing world
the trend in the developing world
202
578318
3821
所以我會說，即使在今天，
在發展中國家的趨勢
是為難民敞開國門。
是為難民敞開國門。
09:54
has been for borders to be open.
203
582163
2326
09:56
The trend in the developed world
is for these questions to become
is for these questions to become
204
584513
4412
但在已開發國家，
這些問題卻變得越來越複雜，
10:00
more and more complex,
205
588949
2106
10:03
especially when there is,
in the public opinion,
in the public opinion,
206
591079
2571
特別是當社會輿論
10:05
a mixture of discussions between refugee
protections on one side
protections on one side
207
593674
5083
將庇護難民和國家安全問題
混為一談的時候，
混為一談的時候，
10:10
and security questions -- in my opinion,
misinterpreted -- on the other side.
misinterpreted -- on the other side.
208
598781
3639
在我看來是個錯誤的闡述。
10:14
BG: We'll come back to that too,
209
602444
1541
BG：我們等一下回來
會談到這個問題。
會談到這個問題。
10:16
but you mentioned the cutting
of funding and the vouchers
of funding and the vouchers
210
604009
2740
您剛剛提到世界糧食計劃署
10:18
from the World Food Programme.
211
606773
1460
物資縮減的情況。
10:20
That reflects the general underfunding
of the organizations
of the organizations
212
608257
2833
這反映了這些組織
10:23
working on these issues.
213
611114
2316
普遍都遇到資金短缺的問題。
10:26
Now that the world seems to have woken up,
214
614155
2555
現在全世界看起來已經醒了，
10:28
are you getting more funding
and more support,
and more support,
215
616734
2191
你們是否得到了更多的資助和支援，
10:30
or it's still the same?
216
618949
1413
還是並沒有變化？
10:32
AG: We are getting more support.
217
620386
1799
AG：我們得到了更多的支援。
10:34
I would say that we are coming
close to the levels of last year.
close to the levels of last year.
218
622209
4433
我會說，我們正接近去年的水平。
我們在夏天期間比較糟糕。
10:39
We were much worse during the summer.
219
627100
2349
10:41
But that is clearly insufficient
to address the needs of the people
to address the needs of the people
220
629799
3858
但這些顯然無法解決難民的需求，
10:45
and address the needs of the countries
221
633681
1890
也無法解決
那些支持難民的國家的需求。
10:47
that are supporting the people.
222
635595
1499
10:49
And here we have a basic review
of the criteria, the objectives,
of the criteria, the objectives,
223
637118
5926
我們在這裡簡單重新審視一下
一些必要的、有關發展合作的
準則、目標和優先權。
準則、目標和優先權。
10:55
the priorities of development
cooperation that is required.
cooperation that is required.
224
643068
2792
10:57
For instance, Lebanon and Jordan
are middle-income countries.
are middle-income countries.
225
645884
3003
舉個例子，黎巴嫩和約旦
都是中等收入國家。
都是中等收入國家。
11:00
Because they are middle-income countries,
226
648911
1974
由於它們是中等收入國家，
11:02
they cannot receive soft loans
or grants from the World Bank.
or grants from the World Bank.
227
650909
2911
所以無法從世界銀行
獲得優惠貸款或補助。
獲得優惠貸款或補助。
11:05
Now, today this doesn't make any sense,
228
653844
2199
現在這看起來很沒有道理，
11:08
because they are providing
a global public good.
a global public good.
229
656067
2329
因為他們在為全球公共利益做貢獻。
11:10
They have millions of refugees there,
230
658420
1810
他們接納了數百萬難民，
11:12
and to be honest, they are pillars
of stability in the region,
of stability in the region,
231
660254
3490
說實話，他們是區域中穩定的梁柱，
11:15
with all the difficulties they face,
232
663768
1738
他們為此面對了諸多困難，
11:17
and the first line of defense
of our collective security.
of our collective security.
233
665530
2690
並且是我們集體安全
的第一道防線。
的第一道防線。
11:20
So it doesn't make sense
234
668244
1163
所以，如果這些國家
11:21
that these countries
are not a first priority
are not a first priority
235
669431
2143
不是發展合作政策
11:23
in development cooperation policies.
236
671598
1745
優先考量的對象，就真的沒道理。
11:25
And they are not.
237
673367
1159
但他們不是，
11:26
And not only do the refugees live
in very dramatic circumstances
in very dramatic circumstances
238
674550
3402
這些國家，不僅難民生活在
非常戲劇性的情境中，
11:29
inside those countries,
239
677976
1230
11:31
but the local communities
themselves are suffering,
themselves are suffering,
240
679230
2826
當地居民本身也十分艱辛，
11:34
because salaries went down,
241
682080
2256
因為工資下滑、
失業率上升、
11:37
because there are more unemployed,
242
685491
1647
11:39
because prices and rents went up.
243
687162
2400
物價和租金上漲。
11:42
And, of course, if you look
at today's situation
at today's situation
244
690238
3944
當然，如果你看一下
11:46
of the indicators in these countries,
245
694206
3098
這些國家現今的經濟指標，
11:49
it is clear that, especially
their poor groups of the population,
their poor groups of the population,
246
697328
5483
很清楚地，特別是他們貧困團體的那一群人，
11:54
are living worse and worse
because of the crisis they are facing.
because of the crisis they are facing.
247
702835
3235
因為他們面臨的危機，
使得他們的生活越來越艱難
使得他們的生活越來越艱難
11:58
BG: Who should be providing this support?
248
706094
1984
BG：誰應該提供這個支援呢？
12:00
Country by country, international
organizations, the European Union?
organizations, the European Union?
249
708102
3321
各國政府、國際組織、還是歐盟？
12:03
Who should be coming up with this support?
250
711447
2048
由誰來提供這些支援呢？
12:05
AG: We need to join all efforts.
251
713519
1545
AG：我們需要各方的共同努力。
12:07
It's clear that bilateral
cooperation is essential.
cooperation is essential.
252
715088
2545
很明顯，雙邊合作是必要的，
12:09
It's clear that multilateral
cooperation is essential.
cooperation is essential.
253
717657
2763
多邊合作也是必要的，
12:12
It's clear that international financial
institutions should have flexibility
institutions should have flexibility
254
720444
3595
國際金融機構也應該有更靈活的政策，
12:16
in order to be able to invest
more massively
more massively
255
724063
2719
來支持這些國家
可以投資更多更大的工程。
12:18
in support to these countries.
256
726806
1526
12:20
We need to combine all the instruments
and to understand that today,
and to understand that today,
257
728356
3246
我們需要結合所有方法，並且了解今日，
12:23
in protracted situations,
at a certain moment,
at a certain moment,
258
731626
2446
在這個已經延宕的情況下
12:26
that it doesn't make sense anymore
to make a distinction
to make a distinction
259
734096
2670
把人道主義援助與經濟發展援助
12:28
between humanitarian aid
and development aid
and development aid
260
736790
3649
區分開來的做法是不合理的。
12:32
or development processes.
261
740463
2349
因為你談的是學校裡的孩子，
12:34
Because you are talking
about children in school,
about children in school,
262
742836
3603
12:38
you are talking about health,
263
746463
1409
你談的是健康問題，
12:39
you are talking about infrastructure
that is overcrowded.
that is overcrowded.
264
747896
2832
你談的是過度擁擠的基礎設施。
12:42
You are talking about things
that require a long-term perspective,
that require a long-term perspective,
265
750752
3569
這些問題都需要
從長遠的發展角度來看待，
12:46
a development perspective
266
754345
1333
12:47
and not only an emergency
humanitarian aid perspective.
humanitarian aid perspective.
267
755702
3036
僅僅從緊急人道主義
援助的角度出發是不夠的。
援助的角度出發是不夠的。
12:51
BG: I would like your comment on something
268
759147
2024
BG：我想請您對今早報紙上
12:53
that was in newspapers this morning.
269
761195
1753
這則新聞發表一下意見。
12:54
It is a statement made
by the current front-runner
by the current front-runner
270
762972
5372
這是一段由處於領先地位的
美國共和黨總統候選人
美國共和黨總統候選人
13:00
for the Republican nomination
for US President, Donald Trump.
for US President, Donald Trump.
271
768368
3346
唐納．川普發表的聲明。
13:03
Yesterday, he said this.
272
771738
1366
昨天，他這樣說，
13:05
(Laughter)
273
773128
1001
（笑聲）
不，聽聽看，這段話很有趣。
13:06
No, listen to this. It's interesting.
274
774153
1792
我引述一下他說的：
13:07
I quote: "I am calling for a total
and complete shutdown
and complete shutdown
275
775969
2870
“我呼籲全面禁止穆斯林進入美國，
13:10
of Muslims entering the US,
276
778863
1698
13:12
until our country's representatives
can figure out what's going on."
can figure out what's going on."
277
780585
4316
直到我們的議員搞清楚
到底怎麼回事。 ”
到底怎麼回事。 ”
13:17
How do you react to that?
278
785425
1359
您對此如何回應？
13:18
AG: Well, it's not only Donald Trump.
279
786808
2084
AG：唐納．川普並不是特例。
13:20
We have seen several people
around the world
around the world
280
788916
2266
我們已經看到世界上有政治責任的一些人
13:23
with political responsibility
saying, for instance,
saying, for instance,
281
791206
2413
也曾有過類似的言論，例如，
13:25
that Muslims refugees
should not be received.
should not be received.
282
793643
2158
不應該接收穆斯林難民。
13:28
And the reason why they say this
283
796108
3500
他們之所以這樣說，
13:31
is because they think
that by doing or saying this,
that by doing or saying this,
284
799632
3099
是由於他們認為
這樣的說法或做法
這樣的說法或做法
13:34
they are protecting
the security of their countries.
the security of their countries.
285
802755
2582
是在保護他們的國家安全。
13:37
Now, I've been in government.
286
805361
1433
我在政府機構工作，
13:38
I am very keen on the need for governments
287
806818
2278
我非常熱衷於政府對
13:41
to protect the security of their countries
288
809120
2445
維護國家和人民安全的需求。
13:43
and their people.
289
811589
1151
但如果你在美國或任何一個歐洲國家
13:44
But if you say, like that,
290
812764
2923
13:47
in the US or in any European country,
291
815711
2506
發表這樣的言論，
13:50
"We are going to close our doors
to Muslim refugees,"
to Muslim refugees,"
292
818241
3946
” 我們拒絕接收穆斯林難民 “，
13:54
what you are saying
is the best possible help
is the best possible help
293
822211
3112
你所說的話很有可能就會
被恐怖組織拿來當宣傳。
13:57
for the propaganda
of terrorist organizations.
of terrorist organizations.
294
825347
2410
14:00
Because what you are saying --
295
828146
1612
因為你所說的--
14:01
(Applause)
296
829782
5575
（掌聲）
14:07
What you are saying will be heard
by all the Muslims in your own country,
by all the Muslims in your own country,
297
835381
5583
你所說的一切，都會被
在你們國家的穆斯林聽到，
在你們國家的穆斯林聽到，
14:12
and it will pave the way
for the recruitment
for the recruitment
298
840988
2073
這種透過科技的方式來為
14:15
and the mechanisms that,
through technology,
through technology,
299
843085
2621
恐怖組織的招募和其他機制鋪路。
14:17
Daesh and al-Nusra, al-Qaeda,
and all those other groups
and all those other groups
300
845730
3855
達伊沙、努斯拉陣線、
基地組織及其他此類團體
基地組織及其他此類團體
14:21
are today penetrating in our societies.
301
849609
2398
正在滲透我們的社會。
14:24
And it's just telling them,
"You are right, we are against you."
"You are right, we are against you."
302
852031
4121
你所說的話就是在告訴他們，
”是的，我們就是反對你們。“
”是的，我們就是反對你們。“
14:28
So obviously, this is creating
in societies that are all multiethnic,
in societies that are all multiethnic,
303
856176
6390
所以很明顯，在一個多種族、
多宗教、多文化的社會裡，
14:34
multi-religious, multicultural,
304
862590
1749
14:36
this is creating a situation
in which, really,
in which, really,
305
864363
3372
這種言論，真的，是在為恐怖組織的宣傳，
14:39
it is much easier for the propaganda
of these terrorist organizations
of these terrorist organizations
306
867759
3390
幫他們創造更為有利的環境，
14:43
to be effective in recruiting
people for terror acts
people for terror acts
307
871173
5113
讓他們可以在發表這種言論的國家裡
14:48
within the countries where these kinds
of sentences are expressed.
of sentences are expressed.
308
876310
3914
更容易地招募到當地人來進行恐怖攻擊。
14:52
BG: Have the recent attacks in Paris
and the reactions to them
and the reactions to them
309
880248
2983
BG：最近發生在巴黎的恐怖攻擊
以及人們對此的反應
以及人們對此的反應
14:55
made your job more difficult?
310
883255
1983
有沒有增加您工作的難度？
14:57
AG: Undoubtedly.
311
885262
1359
AG：當然了。
14:58
BG: In what sense?
312
886645
1461
BG：在哪方面？
AG：這方面，我想，就是很多人
15:00
AG: In the sense that, I mean,
for many people the first reaction
for many people the first reaction
313
888992
4316
對此類的恐怖攻擊的
第一反應就是：關閉所有邊境，
第一反應就是：關閉所有邊境，
15:05
in relation to these kinds of terrorist
attacks is: close all borders --
attacks is: close all borders --
314
893332
3420
15:08
not understanding that the terrorist
problem in Europe is largely homegrown.
problem in Europe is largely homegrown.
315
896776
4445
他們沒有意識到歐洲恐怖主義問題
大多是在歐洲內部產生的。
大多是在歐洲內部產生的。
15:13
We have thousands and thousands
of European fighters in Syria and in Iraq,
of European fighters in Syria and in Iraq,
316
901245
4973
在敘利亞和伊拉克，
有成千上萬的戰士來自歐洲，
有成千上萬的戰士來自歐洲，
15:18
so this is not something that you solve
by just not allowing Syrians to come in.
by just not allowing Syrians to come in.
317
906242
4230
所以僅靠拒絕敘利亞人入境
並不能解決問題。
並不能解決問題。
15:22
And I must say, I am convinced
318
910496
2456
而且我必須講，我確信，
15:24
that the passport that appeared,
319
912976
4172
現場發現的那本護照，
15:29
I believe, was put
by the person who has blown --
by the person who has blown --
320
917172
3747
我相信，就是引爆炸彈那個人的--
15:32
BG: -- himself up, yeah.
321
920943
1531
BG：自殺式爆炸，沒錯。
15:34
AG: [I believe] it was on purpose,
322
922498
1911
AG：對，我認為那是故意的，
15:36
because part of the strategies
of Daesh is against refugees,
of Daesh is against refugees,
323
924433
3618
因為達伊沙的部分策略是反難民的，
15:40
because they see refugees as people
that should be with the caliphate
that should be with the caliphate
324
928075
3413
他們認為這些難民
本該為哈里發王權服務，
本該為哈里發王權服務，
15:43
and are fleeing to the crusaders.
325
931512
2452
卻投奔了十字軍。
15:45
And I think that is part of Daesh's
strategy to make Europe react,
strategy to make Europe react,
326
933988
4063
而我認為，那本護照就是達伊沙
在歐洲激起民憤的手段，
在歐洲激起民憤的手段，
15:50
closing its doors to Muslim refugees
327
938075
2391
讓歐洲拒絕接收穆斯林難民，
15:52
and having an hostility
towards Muslims inside Europe,
towards Muslims inside Europe,
328
940490
3691
在歐洲內部煽動對穆斯林的敵意，
15:56
exactly to facilitate Daesh's work.
329
944205
3522
這完全對達伊沙有利。
15:59
And my deep belief is that
it was not the refugee movement
it was not the refugee movement
330
947751
4508
我深信不疑的是，
並不是難民潮引發了恐怖主義。
16:04
that triggered terrorism.
331
952283
1681
正如我剛才所說，
16:05
I think, as I said,
332
953988
1160
16:07
essentially terrorism in Europe
is today a homegrown movement
is today a homegrown movement
333
955172
3527
本質上，現今歐洲的恐怖主義
是在內部滋生的，
是在內部滋生的，
16:10
in relation to the global situation
that we are facing,
that we are facing,
334
958723
3295
這和我們當下所面對的
國際局勢脫不了關係。
國際局勢脫不了關係。
16:14
and what we need is exactly
to prove these groups wrong,
to prove these groups wrong,
335
962042
4420
而我們需要的就是，
藉由歡迎世界上的那部分人
並讓他們盡快融入我們，
並讓他們盡快融入我們，
16:18
by welcoming and integrating effectively
336
966486
3473
來向這些團體證明他們錯了，
16:21
those that are coming
from that part of the world.
from that part of the world.
337
969983
2403
16:24
And another thing that I believe
is that to a large extent,
is that to a large extent,
338
972410
3016
另外，我還認為在很大程度上，
16:27
what we are today paying for in Europe
339
975450
2463
我們正在為歐洲之前
16:29
is the failures of integration models
340
977937
2170
失敗的種族融合政策付出代價。
16:32
that didn't work in the '60s,
in the '70s, in the '80s,
in the '70s, in the '80s,
341
980131
3141
在上世紀60、70、80年代，
16:35
in relation to big migration flows
that took place at that time
that took place at that time
342
983296
2971
曾有過多次大規模的移民潮，
16:38
and generated what is today
in many of the people, for instance,
in many of the people, for instance,
343
986291
3789
當時的政策讓許多今日的...
16:42
of the second generation of communities,
344
990104
2743
例如，移民的第二代，
16:44
a situation of feeling marginalized,
345
992871
4131
感覺被邊緣化，
16:49
having no jobs,
346
997026
1390
他們沒有工作，
16:50
having improper education,
347
998440
1539
沒有適當的教育，
16:52
living in some of the neighborhoods
that are not adequately provided
that are not adequately provided
348
1000003
5225
生活在缺乏基礎公共設施的社區裡。
16:57
by public infrastructure.
349
1005252
2242
16:59
And this kind of uneasiness,
sometimes even anger,
sometimes even anger,
350
1007518
4833
而第二代移民的這種不安，
有時甚至是憤怒，
有時甚至是憤怒，
17:04
that exists in this second generation
351
1012375
2469
主要是由
失敗的種族融合政策所造成的，
17:06
is largely due to the failure
of integration policies,
of integration policies,
352
1014868
3023
原因是，政府本應該投入更多力量為人們
創造一個和平相處互相尊敬的環境，
創造一個和平相處互相尊敬的環境，
17:09
to the failure of what should have been
a much stronger investment
a much stronger investment
353
1017915
3881
17:13
in creating the conditions for people
to live together and respect each other.
to live together and respect each other.
354
1021820
4388
但卻沒有做到。
17:18
For me it is clear.
355
1026232
1308
我深信--
17:19
(Applause)
356
1027564
3241
（掌聲）
17:22
For me it is clear that all societies
will be multiethnic, multicultural,
will be multiethnic, multicultural,
357
1030829
3870
我深信，未來所有的社會都會是
多種族、多文化、多宗教共存的。
17:26
multi-religious in the future.
358
1034723
1626
17:28
To try to avoid it is,
in my opinion, impossible.
in my opinion, impossible.
359
1036666
3238
想要避免這種趨勢，
在我看來，是不可能的。
在我看來，是不可能的。
17:32
And for me it's a good thing
that they will be like that,
that they will be like that,
360
1040420
2900
我覺得這是一件好事，
17:35
but I also recognize that,
for that to work properly,
for that to work properly,
361
1043344
3378
但我也認知到要把這個工作做好，
我們要在自身的社會裡，
17:38
you need a huge investment
362
1046746
1956
17:40
in the social cohesion
of your own societies.
of your own societies.
363
1048726
2436
投入更多的努力在社會凝聚力上。
17:43
And Europe, to a large extent,
failed in that investment
failed in that investment
364
1051186
3674
而歐洲，在過去的幾十年，有很大的程度，
17:46
in the past few decades.
365
1054884
3213
在這種投入上並不成功。
17:50
BG: Question: You are stepping down
from your job at the end of the year,
from your job at the end of the year,
366
1058121
3996
BG：還有個問題：年底您就要退職了，
而您擔任此職務已有十年之久。
17:54
after 10 years.
367
1062141
1533
17:55
If you look back at 2005,
368
1063698
1437
如果回顧2005年，
您第一次走進辦公室的時候，
您第一次走進辦公室的時候，
17:57
when you entered that office
for the first time, what do you see?
for the first time, what do you see?
369
1065159
3075
您有何種感想？
18:01
AG: Well, look:
370
1069491
1855
AG：好吧，我們來看，
2005年，因為衝突告一段落，
18:04
In 2005, we were helping
one million people go back home
one million people go back home
371
1072466
5377
我們幫助了100萬人
安全且尊嚴地重返家園，
安全且尊嚴地重返家園，
18:09
in safety and dignity,
because conflicts had ended.
because conflicts had ended.
372
1077867
3048
18:13
Last year, we helped 124,000.
373
1081692
2665
去年，我們僅幫助了12萬4千人。
18:17
In 2005, we had about 38 million people
displaced by conflict in the world.
displaced by conflict in the world.
374
1085659
5088
2005年，由於世界上的衝突而
被迫離家的人大約有3800萬人，
被迫離家的人大約有3800萬人，
18:22
Today, we have more than 60 million.
375
1090771
2471
今天，有六千多萬人。
18:26
At that time, we had had, recently,
376
1094052
3067
當時，我們已解決了一些衝突。
18:29
some conflicts that were solved.
377
1097143
2679
而現在，新的衝突快速增加，
18:32
Now, we see a multiplication
of new conflicts
of new conflicts
378
1100393
2307
18:34
and the old conflicts never died:
379
1102724
1841
而舊有衝突卻依然存在：
18:36
Afghanistan, Somalia,
Democratic Republic of Congo.
Democratic Republic of Congo.
380
1104589
3356
比如阿富汗問題，索馬里問題，剛果問題。
18:39
It is clear that the world today
is much more dangerous than it was.
is much more dangerous than it was.
381
1107969
4056
很明顯，當今世界更為危險。
18:44
It is clear that the capacity
of the international community
of the international community
382
1112049
2844
很明顯，國際社會
在預防和及時解決衝突的能力，
18:46
to prevent conflicts
and to timely solve them,
and to timely solve them,
383
1114917
2876
18:49
is, unfortunately, much worse
than what it was 10 years ago.
than what it was 10 years ago.
384
1117817
4154
很遺憾，不及10年前的狀況。
18:53
There are no clear
power relations in the world,
power relations in the world,
385
1121995
2745
世界上沒有明確的權力關係
18:56
no global governance mechanisms that work,
386
1124764
2493
或全球治理機制起作用，
18:59
which means that we live in a situation
387
1127281
2779
意思就是我們生活在一個
19:02
where impunity and unpredictability
tend to prevail, and that means
tend to prevail, and that means
388
1130084
4926
有罪不罰和不可預測性
往往佔上風的環境條件底下，
往往佔上風的環境條件底下，
19:07
that more and more people suffer,
389
1135034
2415
也意味著，越來越多的人因此遭受苦難，
19:09
namely those that are
displaced by conflicts.
displaced by conflicts.
390
1137473
2393
特別是那些因衝突而離開家園的人。
19:11
BG: It's a tradition in American politics
391
1139890
2006
BG：美國政治中有一個傳統，
19:13
that when a President leaves
the Oval Office for the last time,
the Oval Office for the last time,
392
1141920
3630
上任總統最後離開總統辦公室的時候，
19:17
he leaves a handwritten note
on the desk for his successor
on the desk for his successor
393
1145574
2777
會在辦公桌上留個小紙條
給幾小時候走進辦公室的繼任者。
19:20
that walks in a couple of hours later.
394
1148375
2101
19:22
If you had to write such a note
to your successor, Filippo Grandi,
to your successor, Filippo Grandi,
395
1150500
3185
如果讓您給您的繼任者菲利普．格蘭迪
寫一張這樣的便條，
寫一張這樣的便條，
19:25
what would you write?
396
1153709
1152
您會寫些什麼呢？
19:26
AG: Well, I don't think
I would write any message.
I would write any message.
397
1154885
3064
AG：我想我什麼都不會寫。
19:29
You know, one of the terrible things
when one leaves an office
when one leaves an office
398
1157973
2975
你知道，離任者嘗試著對繼任者指手畫腳，
19:32
is to try to become the backseat driver,
399
1160972
2730
總想告訴他們應該怎樣做，
19:35
always telling the new one what to do.
400
1163726
2887
這是個令人討厭的行為。
19:38
So that, I will not do.
401
1166637
1516
所以我不會這麼做。
19:40
If I had to say something to him,
402
1168177
1944
如果要我對他說點什麼，
19:42
it would be, "Be yourself,
and do your best."
and do your best."
403
1170145
2277
我會告訴他：“ 堅守本份，全力以赴。 ”
19:44
BG: Commissioner, thank you
for the job you do.
for the job you do.
404
1172753
2246
BG：委員，感謝您所做的工作。
19:47
Thank you for coming to TED.
405
1175023
1505
感謝您來 TED 演講。
19:48
(Applause)
406
1176552
4342
（掌聲）
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
António Guterres - Designate Secretary-General of the United NationsAntónio Guterres is at the forefront of advocating for refugee rights around the world.
Why you should listen
A former Portuguese prime minister, António Guterres was elected by the UN General Assembly to become the 10th United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees in June 2005. In October 2016 the United Nations Security Council announced he would be the next United Nations Secretary General, succeeding the retiring Ban Ki-moon.
As High Commissioner, he heads one of the world's foremost humanitarian organizations. UNHCR has twice won the Nobel Peace Prize. Its over 9,300 staff members work in 123 countries providing protection and assistance to nearly 55 million refugees, returnees, internally displaced people and stateless persons. Some 88 percent of UNHCR staff work in the field, often in difficult and dangerous duty stations.
Before joining UNHCR, Guterres spent more than 20 years in government and public service. He served as Portuguese prime minister from 1995 to 2002, during which time he was heavily involved in the international effort to resolve the crisis in East Timor. As president of the European Council in early 2000, he led the adoption of the so-called Lisbon Agenda and co-chaired the first European Union-Africa summit. He also founded the Portuguese Refugee Council in 1991 and was part of the Council of State of Portugal from 1991 to 2002.
From 1981 to 1983, Guterres was a member of the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe, as well as chairman of the Committee on Demography, Migration and Refugees. In addition, he has been active in Socialist International, a worldwide organization of social democratic political parties. He was the group's vice-president from 1992 to 1999 and president from 1999 until mid-2005.
Guterres was born on April 30, 1949, in Lisbon and educated at the Instituto Superior Técnico, where he remains a visiting professor. He is married and has two children.
António Guterres | Speaker | TED.com