ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Heribert Watzke - Food scientist
Heribert Watzke studies the brain in our gut -- and works to develop new kinds of food that will satisfy our bodies and minds.

Why you should listen

Heribert Watzke set up the department of food material science at Nestlé in Switzerland, pulling together many disciplines, including chemistry, nutrition and neuroscience, in pursuit of ever better foods. Watzke's background is in chemistry -- in the mid-'80s, he was part of a groundbreaking team at Syracuse working on splitting water into hydrogen and oxygen to create alternative energy -- before moving to materials science.

At Nestlé's lab, Watzke focuses on the most basic form of human energy: the chemistry of food. Research on food has previously focused on its sensory qualities -- taste, aroma, texture. But there is much more to know. How does food's biological structure determine its quality, its digestibility, its nutritional qualities? What's the science of turning a biological structure (for instance, a kernel of grain) into something humans can make into pure energy (for instance, a slice of bread)? His team has been looking recently at the impact of food structure on fat digestion, in support of the fight against obesity. How much fat is needed to feel full? And how can we most effectively communicate with the 100 million neurons in our gut?

More profile about the speaker
Heribert Watzke | Speaker | TED.com
TEDGlobal 2010

Heribert Watzke: The brain in your gut

Heribert Watzke: 消化道中的腦

Filmed:
1,704,961 views

你知道在你的腸道內有數億個活躍運行著的神經元嗎? 食品科學家 Heribert Watzke 介紹隱藏在消化道中的另一個腦,並說明它如何出乎意料地影響我們的感受。
- Food scientist
Heribert Watzke studies the brain in our gut -- and works to develop new kinds of food that will satisfy our bodies and minds. Full bio

Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.

00:16
This technology技術
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這項技術
00:18
made製作 a very important重要 impact碰撞 on us.
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對我們產生了巨大的影響
00:20
It changed the way our history歷史 developed發達.
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它改變了我們人類歷史發展的方向
00:24
But it's a technology技術 so pervasive無處不在,
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但是它是如此的普遍
00:26
so invisible無形,
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如此的難以察覺
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that we, for a long time,
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以至於長久以來
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forgot忘記 to take it into account帳戶
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當我們在討論人類歷史時
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when we talked about
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總是忘記將它納入考量
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human人的 evolution演化.
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.
00:37
But we see the results結果 of this technology技術, still.
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但是我們仍然看到了這個技術的影響
00:40
So let's make a little test測試.
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現在,我們來做個小小測試
00:42
So everyone大家 of you turns to their neighbor鄰居 please.
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請每個人面向自己身邊的人
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Turn and face面對 your neighbors鄰居.
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面向自己座位旁的人
00:48
Please, also on the balcony陽台.
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看台上的人也請這麼作
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Smile微笑. Smile微笑. Open打開 the mouths嘴巴.
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笑,打開嘴巴
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Smile微笑, friendly友善.
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友善的微笑
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(Laughter笑聲)
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.
00:57
Do you --
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你是否
00:59
Do you see any Canine teeth?
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你是否看到對方的犬齒?
01:02
(Laughter笑聲)
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.
01:04
Count計數 Dracula德古拉 teeth
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數數在你身旁的人嘴裡
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in the mouths嘴巴 of your neighbors鄰居?
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有幾顆像吸血鬼的尖牙?
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Of course課程 not.
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當然沒有半個
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Because our dental牙齒 anatomy解剖學
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因為我們牙齒型態
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is actually其實 made製作,
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的安排與設計
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not for tearing撕裂 down raw生的 meat from bones骨頭
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並非用來嘶咬骨頭上的生肉
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or chewing咀嚼 fibrous纖維 leaves樹葉 for hours小時.
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或花許多時間咀嚼充滿纖維的葉子
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It is made製作 for a diet飲食
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而是設計來咀嚼
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which哪一個 is soft柔軟的, mushy糊狀的,
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柔軟、糊狀
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which哪一個 is reduced減少 in fibers纖維,
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纖維量少
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which哪一個 is very easily容易 chewable咀嚼片
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易咀嚼及
01:34
and digestible易消化.
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消化的食物
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Sounds聲音 like fast快速 food餐飲, doesn't it.
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聽起來很像速食,不是嗎?
01:39
(Laughter笑聲)
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.
01:41
It's for cooked food餐飲.
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我們的牙齒是設計給烹煮過的食物
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We carry攜帶 in our face面對 the proof證明
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我們的臉,就是
01:47
that cooking烹飪,
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烹煮
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food餐飲 transformation轉型,
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這個改變食物型態的技術
01:52
made製作 us what we are.
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型塑了現代人外型的證據
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So I would suggest建議 that we change更改 how we classify分類 ourselves我們自己.
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因此我建議我們改變我們原先的自我分類
01:57
We talk about ourselves我們自己 as omnivores雜食動物.
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我們總說人類是雜食性動物
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I would say, we should call ourselves我們自己 coctivorscoctivors --
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我倒覺得,我們該稱自己是熟食性動物(coctivors)
02:03
(Laughter笑聲)
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from coquerecoquere, to cook廚師.
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衍伸自拉丁文的coqure (烹煮)
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We are the animals動物
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我們是
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who eat cooked food餐飲.
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吃熟食的動物
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No, no, no, no. Better --
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不不不,更好
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to live生活 of cooked food餐飲.
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靠熟食生存
02:17
So cooking烹飪 is a very important重要 technology技術.
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所以烹煮無疑是很重要的技術
02:19
It's technology技術.
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這個技術
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I don't know how you feel,
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我不知道你們心裡怎麼想
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but I like to cook廚師 for entertainment娛樂.
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但我喜歡烹飪款待別人
02:25
And you need some design設計
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而且你需要一些巧思
02:27
to be successful成功.
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才能成功
02:29
So, cooking烹飪 is a very important重要 technology技術,
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所以烹煮其實是一個很重要的技術
02:32
because it allowed允許 us to acquire獲得
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因為它讓我們有機會演化、發展出
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what brought you all here:
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這個讓我們共聚一堂的器官:
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the big brain,
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大腦
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this wonderful精彩 cerebral顱內 cortex皮質 we have.
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我們有棒極了的大腦皮質
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Because brains大腦 are expensive昂貴.
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因為演化出大腦是如此昂貴
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Those have to pay工資 tuition學費 fees費用 know.
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所以我們現在得付學費
02:49
(Laughter笑聲)
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But it's also, metabolically代謝 speaking請講, expensive昂貴.
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而就代謝而言,大腦是耗能的
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You now, our brain is two to three percent百分 of the body身體 mass,
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現代人的大腦大約僅佔身體總體重的2-3%
02:58
but actually其實 it uses使用 25 percent百分 of the total energy能源 we use.
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但它卻消耗了25%我們所攝取的能量
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It's very expensive昂貴.
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所以它非常耗能
03:03
Where does the energy能源 come from. Of course課程, from food餐飲.
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而這些能量要從哪裡來呢? 當然是從食物
03:06
If we eat raw生的 food餐飲,
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如果我們吃生的食物
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we cannot不能 release發布 really the energy能源.
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我們便無法好好的運用其所含的能量
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So this ingenuity創造力 of our ancestors祖先,
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而我們聰明的祖先
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to invent發明 this most marvelous奇妙 technology技術.
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發明了這個非凡的技術
03:18
Invisible無形 -- everyone大家 of us does it every一切 day, so to speak說話.
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儘管每個人天天使用卻仍難以察覺
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Cooking烹飪 made製作 it possible可能
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烹煮這項技術
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that mutations突變,
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使得基因突變、
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natural自然 selections, our environment環境,
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天擇以及環境
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could develop發展 us.
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有機會影響我們的演化與發展
03:32
So if we think about
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試想看看
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this unleashing肆行 human人的 potential潛在,
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這項被解放的人類潛能
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which哪一個 was possible可能 by cooking烹飪 and food餐飲,
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便是因為烹煮與食物才有機會發展
03:40
why do we talk so badly about food餐飲?
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為什麼我們如此關注食物
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Why is it always do and don'ts注意事項
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為什麼總要考慮吃或不吃
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and it's good for you, it's not good for you?
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或是哪些食物對你有益、哪些有害?
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I think the good news新聞 for me
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我想對我來說好消息是
03:49
would be if we could go back
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如果我們回頭想想
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and talk about the unleashing肆行,
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這項被釋放的潛能
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the continuation延續 of the unleashing肆行 of human人的 potential潛在.
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以及它延續至今的各種影響
03:57
Now, cooking烹飪 allowed允許 also
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烹煮這項技術
03:59
that we became成為 a migrant農民 species種類.
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曾使我們成為遷徙性的物種
04:02
We walked out of Africa非洲 two times.
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人類曾經兩次走出非洲
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We populated人口稠密 all the ecologies生態.
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我們幾乎占據了大多數的生態環境
04:07
If you can cook廚師, nothing can happen發生 to you,
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只要會烹煮,生存幾乎沒什麼困難
04:10
because whatever隨你 you find,
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因為不論你找到什麼
04:12
you will try to transform轉變 it.
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你都能夠透過烹煮來使之可食
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It keeps保持 also your brain working加工.
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因此讓你的腦袋能繼續運作
04:17
Now the very easy簡單 and simple簡單 technology技術
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而這項簡單的技術
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which哪一個 was developed發達
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在被發明後
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actually其實 runs運行 after this formula.
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便遵循這樣的模式
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Take something which哪一個 looks容貌 like food餐飲, transform轉變 it,
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取得某些看起來像食物的東西,然後改變它們
04:28
and it gives you a good, very easy簡單, accessible無障礙 energy能源.
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它們便能夠提供優質又方便的能量來源
04:31
This technology技術 affected受影響 two organs器官,
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這項技術影響了兩個器官
04:34
the brain and the gut腸道, which哪一個 it actually其實 affected受影響.
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腦以及消化道,尤其是消化道
04:37
The brain could grow增長, but the gut腸道 actually其實 shrunk壓縮.
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人類的腦變大了,但消化道卻變小了
04:40
Okay, it's not obvious明顯 to be honest誠實.
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好吧,我承認看起來不是那麼明顯
04:42
(Laughter笑聲)
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.
04:45
But it shrunk壓縮 to 60 percent百分
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但相對於其他靈長類動物
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of primate靈長類動物 gut腸道
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人類消化道佔總體重的
04:49
of my body身體 mass.
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比例減少了60%
04:51
So because of having cooked food餐飲,
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因為烹煮過的食物
04:54
it's easier更輕鬆 to digest消化.
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更容易消化
04:57
Now having a large brain, as you know,
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而擁有較大的腦,就我們所知
05:00
is a big advantage優點,
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是非常有利的
05:02
because you can actually其實 influence影響 your environment環境.
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因為它使人類有能力去改變生存環境
05:05
You can influence影響 your own擁有 technologies技術 you have invented發明.
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改進既有的技術
05:07
You can continue繼續 to innovate創新 and invent發明.
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並且持續的創新與發明
05:09
Now the big brain did this also with cooking烹飪.
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大腦也改進、創新烹煮方法
05:12
But how did it actually其實 run this show顯示?
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這實際上是如何進行的呢?
05:15
How did it actually其實 interfere干擾?
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大腦如何影響烹煮技術的發展?
05:17
What kind of criteria標準 did it use?
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而它所用的又是怎樣的準則呢?
05:20
And this is actually其實 taste味道 reward獎勵 and energy能源.
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實際上就是味覺、回饋與能量
05:24
You know we have up to five tastes口味,
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人類具有五種味覺
05:26
three of them sustain支持 us.
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其中三個維持我們生存
05:29
Sweet -- energy能源.
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甜味與能量的攝取有關
05:31
Umami鮮味 -- this is a meaty肉香 taste味道.
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甘味則是來自肉類
05:33
You need proteins蛋白質 for muscles肌肉, recovery復甦.
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蛋白質則是合成肌肉及復原體力所需
05:37
Salty,
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鹹味
05:39
because you need salt, otherwise除此以外 your electric電動 body身體 will not work.
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人類需要鹽類,否則帶電的身體無法正常運作
05:42
And two tastes口味 which哪一個 protect保護 you --
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另外還有兩種味覺是用來保護人類
05:45
bitter and sour,
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苦味及酸味
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which哪一個 are against反對
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幫助我們分辨
05:50
poisonous有毒 and rotten material材料.
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有毒及腐壞的食物
05:53
But of course課程, they are hard-wired硬連線
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即使人類的味覺是天生的
05:55
but we use them still in a sophisticated複雜的 way.
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但使用味覺的方式卻是人為的複雜精巧
05:57
Think about bittersweet苦樂參半 chocolate巧克力;
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想想苦甜巧克力
05:59
or think about the acidity酸度
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想想優格的酸味
06:01
of yogurt酸奶 -- wonderful精彩 --
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多麼美妙
06:03
mixed with strawberry草莓 fruits水果.
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混和著莓果的味道
06:05
So we can make mixtures混合物 of all this kind of thing
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我們可將各種食材隨意組合
06:08
because we know
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因為我們知道
06:11
that, in cooking烹飪, we can transform轉變 it
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透過烹煮,食物得以轉化成
06:13
to the form形成.
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更好吃、更營養的狀態
06:15
Reward獎勵: this is a more complex複雜
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回饋:這一點更複雜
06:18
and especially特別 integrative綜合
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尤其是大腦在整合訊息
06:21
form形成 of our brain
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的狀態
06:23
with various各個 different不同 elements分子 --
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跟各種因素:
06:26
the external外部 states狀態, our internal內部 states狀態,
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外部環境、內在狀態
06:28
how do we feel, and so on are put together一起.
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我們的感受及其他因素等等,加總的影響
06:31
And something which哪一個 maybe you don't like
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有些食物可能我們並不喜歡
06:33
but you are so hungry飢餓 that you really will be satisfied滿意 to eat.
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但卻是餓到會心滿意足地吃下
06:36
So satisfaction滿意 was a very important重要 part部分.
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所以滿足感是很重要的因素
06:39
And as I say, energy能源 was necessary必要.
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如同我所說的,能量則是必要的
06:41
Now how did the gut腸道 actually其實
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而消化道是怎樣
06:43
participate參加 in this development發展?
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參與烹煮技術發展?
06:46
And the gut腸道 is a silent無聲 voice語音 --
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消化道無聲地發言
06:49
it's going more for feelings情懷.
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仰賴知覺來傳遞訊息
06:51
I use the euphemism婉辭 digestive消化 comfort安慰 --
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也就是消化時的舒適感
06:55
actually其實 -- it's a digestive消化 discomfort不舒服,
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但實際上,消化不適的感覺
06:58
which哪一個 the gut腸道 is concerned關心 with.
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才是身體所關注的訊號
07:01
If you get a stomach ache疼痛, if you get a little bit bloated,
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比如說如果你胃痛或是胃脹氣
07:04
was not the right food餐飲, was not the right cooking烹飪 manipulation操作
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你就知道哪些食物不該吃、不該那樣料理
07:07
or maybe other things went wrong錯誤.
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或者你吃的食物哪些地方不對勁
07:09
So my story故事 is a tale故事 of two brains大腦,
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所以我的故事是由兩個腦組成的
07:12
because it might威力 surprise you,
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而這大概會讓你覺得驚訝
07:14
our gut腸道 has a full-fledged羽翼豐滿 brain.
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我們的消化道也有個獨立成熟的大腦
07:17
All the managers經理 in the room房間 say,
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有些人也許會說:
07:19
"You don't tell me something new, because we know, gut腸道 feeling感覺.
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「這又不是什麼新鮮事,因為我們知道腸胃感,就是直覺(gut feeling)
07:21
This is what we are using運用."
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這個詞我們天天都在用啊!」
07:23
(Laughter笑聲)
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.
07:25
And actually其實 you use it and it's actually其實 useful有用.
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我們的確都有使用消化道腦,它也的確是有用的
07:27
Because our gut腸道 is connected連接的 to our emotional情緒化 limbic邊緣 system系統,
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消化道與掌管情緒的邊緣系統互相連結
07:30
they do speak說話 with each other
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彼此互相溝通與傳遞訊息
07:32
and make decisions決定.
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並作出決定
07:35
But what it means手段
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我所指的
07:37
to have a brain there
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消化道中的腦
07:39
is that, not only the big brain
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說明不只是大腦
07:42
has to talk with the food餐飲,
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會跟食物溝通
07:45
the food餐飲 has to talk with the brain,
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食物也必須要傳遞訊息給大腦
07:48
because we have to learn學習 actually其實
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因此,我們必須要
07:51
how to talk to the brains大腦.
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學著跟大腦溝通
07:53
Now if there's a gut腸道 brain,
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此外
07:55
we should also learn學習 to talk with this brain.
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我們也應該學著跟消化道腦溝通
07:57
Now 150 years年份 ago,
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大約一百五十年前
07:59
anatomists解剖學家 described描述 very, very carefully小心 --
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解剖學家便對消化道有了精準的描述
08:02
here is a model模型 of a wall of a gut腸道.
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這是消化道管壁結構的示意圖
08:05
I took the three elements分子 --
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我列出了消化道的三個器官
08:07
stomach, small intestine and colon結腸.
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胃、小腸、結腸
08:10
And within this structure結構體,
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細看他們的結構
08:12
you see these two pinkish粉紅色 layers,
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你可以看到兩層粉紅色的結構
08:14
which哪一個 are actually其實 the muscle肌肉.
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這兩層是肌肉
08:16
And between之間 this muscle肌肉, they found發現 nervous緊張 tissues組織,
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而在肌肉中間,便存在著神經組織
08:18
a lot of nervous緊張 tissues組織,
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許許多多的神經組織
08:20
which哪一個 penetrate穿透 actually其實 the muscle肌肉 --
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這些神經穿過了肌肉
08:22
penetrate穿透 the submucosa粘膜下層,
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也穿過了黏膜下層
08:24
where you have all the elements分子 for the immune免疫的 system系統.
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黏膜下層與免疫系統有關
08:26
The gut腸道 is actually其實 the largest最大 immune免疫的 system系統,
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消化道其實是人體最大的免疫系統
08:28
defending衛冕 your body身體.
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防衛你的身體
08:30
It penetrates滲透 the mucosa粘膜.
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這些神經組織也穿透黏膜層
08:32
This is the layer which哪一個 actually其實 touches觸摸 the food餐飲 you are swallowing吞嚥
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而此層直接與你所吃
08:35
and you digest消化,
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以及所消化的食物接觸
08:37
which哪一個 is actually其實 the lumen流明.
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也就是內腔
08:39
Now if you think about the gut腸道,
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想像一下你的消化道
08:41
the gut腸道 is -- if you could stretch伸展 it --
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如果你拉開你的消化道
08:43
40 meters long,
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它會有四十公尺長
08:45
the length長度 of a tennis網球 court法庭.
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大約是網球場的長度
08:47
If we could unroll it,
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如果將它延展開
08:49
get out all the folds褶皺 and so on,
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將其中的皺摺都展開
08:52
it would have 400 sq平方. meters of surface表面.
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它的表面積大約有四百平方公尺
08:55
And now this brain takes care關心 over this,
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而這隱藏在消化道的腦
08:58
to move移動 it with the muscles肌肉 and to do defend保衛 the surface表面
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負責控制消化道肌肉的運作、保護消化道表面
09:01
and, of course課程, digest消化 our food餐飲 we cook廚師.
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當然,也消化烹煮過的食物
09:04
So if we give you a specification規範,
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容我詳細說明消化道腦
09:07
this brain, which哪一個 is autonomous自主性,
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消化道腦具有自主性
09:09
have 500 million百萬 nerve神經 cells細胞,
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有五億個神經細胞
09:11
100 million百萬 neurons神經元 --
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一億個神經元
09:13
so around the size尺寸 of a cat brain,
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大約跟貓的腦一樣大
09:16
so there sleeps睡覺 a little cat --
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這裡可說是睡著一隻小貓呢!
09:19
thinks for itself本身,
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消化道會自己思考
09:21
optimizes公司優化 whatever隨你 it digests摘要.
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並將消化所得的能量妥善運用
09:24
It has 20 different不同 neuron神經元 types類型.
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它有二十種不同的神經元
09:27
It's got the same相同 diversity多樣 you find actually其實 in a pig brain,
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大約跟豬的腦一樣多樣化
09:29
where you have 100 billion十億 neurons神經元.
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但人類的消化道有一千億個神經元
09:32
It has autonomous自主性 organized有組織的 microcircuits微電路,
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而消化道有著自主的小型神經迴路
09:35
has these programs程式 which哪一個 run.
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依照某些方式運行
09:37
It senses感官 the food餐飲; it knows知道 exactly究竟 what to do.
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消化道可感受各種食物,並知道應該怎麼處理它們
09:40
It senses感官 it by chemical化學 means手段
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藉著化學方式,還有
09:42
and very importantly重要的 by mechanical機械 means手段,
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更重要的,力學的方式來感受食物
09:45
because it has to move移動 the food餐飲 --
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因為消化道必須要移動食團
09:47
it has to mix混合 all the various各個 elements分子
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並且混合其它消化所需的
09:49
which哪一個 we need for digestion消化.
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各種元素
09:51
This control控制 of muscle肌肉 is very, very important重要,
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所以消化道肌肉的控制是非常非常重要的
09:54
because, you know, there can be reflexes反射.
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如你所知,
09:56
If you don't like a food餐飲, especially特別 if you're a child兒童, you gag插科打諢.
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如果不喜歡某種食物,特別是你年幼時,你會作嘔
09:59
It's this brain which哪一個 makes品牌 this reflex反射.
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就是消化道腦負責這樣的反射動作
10:01
And then finally最後,
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最後
10:03
it controls控制 also the secretion分泌 of this molecular分子 machinery機械,
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消化道腦也控制著某些分子的分泌
10:06
which哪一個 actually其實 digests摘要 the food餐飲 we cook廚師.
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這些分子是用來消化食物的
10:09
Now how do the two brains大腦 work with each other?
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而腦與消化道中的腦彼此如何合作
10:12
I took here a model模型 from robotics機器人 --
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在這用一個機械科學的模型來解釋
10:15
it's called the Subsumption涵攝 Architecture建築.
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稱為「包容式體系結構」
10:18
What it means手段 is that we have a layered分層 control控制 system系統.
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指的是我們有著層級式的控制系統
10:21
The lower降低 layer, our gut腸道 brain,
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較低層級的消化道腦
10:23
has its own擁有 goals目標 -- digestion消化 defense防禦 --
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有著自己的職責:消化及防禦
10:26
and we have the higher更高 brain
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另外還有較高層級的腦
10:28
with the goal目標 of integration積分
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負責整合身體的各種訊息
10:30
and generating發電 behaviors行為.
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並引發行為
10:32
Now both look -- and this is the blue藍色 arrows箭頭 --
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看看藍色的箭頭
10:35
both look to the same相同 food餐飲, which哪一個 is in the lumen流明
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大腦與消化道腦都能感覺腸腔中的食物
10:38
and in the area of your intestine.
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也都感測著腸道中相同的區域
10:40
The big brain integrates整合 signals信號,
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大腦整合這些訊息
10:42
which哪一個 come from the running賽跑 programs程式
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而這些訊息其實是來自
10:44
of the lower降低 brain,
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消化道腦(綠色箭頭)
10:46
But subsumption包容 means手段
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所謂的「包容式」,即
10:48
that the higher更高 brain can interfere干擾 with the lower降低.
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較高層級的腦可以影響較低層級的消化道腦
10:51
It can replace更換,
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大腦可以取代
10:53
or it can inhibit抑制 actually其實, signals信號.
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或者該說是抑制腸胃道的訊號(紅色箭頭)
10:56
So if we take two types類型 of signals信號 --
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我用飢餓跟飽足感來說明
10:58
a hunger飢餓 signal信號 for example.
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比方說,飢餓的訊號
11:00
If you have an empty stomach,
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如果你肚子空空
11:02
your stomach produces產生 a hormone激素 called ghrelin生長素.
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你的胃便會產生一種叫作飢餓素(ghrelin)的賀爾蒙
11:04
It's a very big signal信號;
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它是一種很強烈的訊號
11:06
it's sent發送 to the brain says,
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會被傳送至大腦並且對大腦說
11:08
"Go and eat."
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「快去吃點東西!!」
11:10
You have stop signals信號 --
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但身體裡也存在著停止的訊號
11:12
we have up to eight stop signals信號.
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我們有多達八種的停止訊號
11:14
At least最小 in my case案件,
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不過對我來說
11:16
they are not listened聽了 to.
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這些抑制訊號通常不太管用
11:18
(Laughter笑聲)
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.
11:20
So what happens發生
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若大腦整合後的訊號
11:22
if the big brain in the integration積分
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凌駕來自消化道的訊號
11:25
overrides覆蓋 the signal信號?
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會如何呢?
11:27
So if you override覆蓋 the hunger飢餓 signal信號,
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比如說大腦不理會飢餓的訊息
11:29
you can have a disorder紊亂, which哪一個 is called anorexia厭食症.
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會產生叫作精神性厭食的症狀
11:32
Despite儘管 generating發電
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雖然消化道產生了
11:34
a healthy健康 hunger飢餓 signal信號,
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健康的飢餓訊號
11:36
the big brain ignores忽略 it
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大腦仍然忽略這樣的訊息
11:38
and activates激活 different不同 programs程式 in the gut腸道.
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並且啟動消化道的其他機制
11:41
The more usual通常 case案件
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不過更常見的例子是
11:43
is overeating暴飲暴食.
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吃得太飽
11:46
It actually其實 takes the signal信號
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大腦接收到飽的訊息
11:49
and changes變化 it,
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卻改變它
11:51
and we continue繼續,
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讓我們繼續吃
11:53
even [though雖然] our eight signals信號 would say, "Stop, enough足夠.
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雖然有八種訊號會說:「夠了!別吃了!
11:56
We have transferred轉入 enough足夠 energy能源."
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身體已經獲得足夠的能量了!」
11:58
Now the interesting有趣 thing is that,
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有趣的是
12:00
along沿 this lower降低 layer -- this gut腸道 --
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觀察接受減重手術病人會發現
12:02
the signal信號 becomes stronger and stronger
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在較低層級的消化道中
12:05
if undigested未消化, but digestible易消化, material材料
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在未消化但可消化的食物
12:08
could penetrate穿透.
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通過時
12:10
This we found發現 from bariatric減肥 surgery手術.
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這些飽足感的訊號會越變越強
12:14
That then the signal信號 would be very, very high.
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飽足感的訊號會非常、非常的高
12:17
So now back to the cooking烹飪 question
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現在,回到烹煮這項主題
12:20
and back to the design設計.
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以及如何將它設計的更盡善盡美
12:22
We have learned學到了 to talk to the big brain --
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我們已經知道如何跟大腦溝通
12:25
taste味道 and reward獎勵, as you know.
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也就是透過味覺及回饋
12:27
Now what would be the language語言
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但是我們應該用什麼樣的語言
12:29
we have to talk to the gut腸道 brain
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來跟消化道腦溝通呢?
12:31
that its signals信號 are so strong強大
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如何才能產生強烈到讓
12:33
that the big brain cannot不能 ignore忽視 it?
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大腦無法忽略的飽足訊號呢?
12:36
Then we would generate生成 something
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這樣我們就能
12:38
all of us would like to have --
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如大家所願的
12:40
a balance平衡 between之間 the hunger飢餓
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在飢餓
12:42
and the satiation飽食.
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與飽足之間取得巧妙的平衡
12:45
Now I give you, from our research研究, a very short claim要求.
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從我們的研究中可看出一點端倪
12:48
This is fat脂肪 digestion消化.
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這是一個脂肪消化的實驗
12:50
You have on your left
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在左邊的是
12:52
an olive橄欖 oil droplet水滴,
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橄欖油的油滴
12:54
and this olive橄欖 oil droplet水滴 gets得到 attacked襲擊 by enzymes.
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我們以酵素來分解這些油滴
12:57
This is an in vitro體外 experiment實驗.
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這是一個體外的實驗
12:59
It's very difficult to work in the intestine.
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因為很難在腸道中進行這樣的實驗
13:02
Now everyone大家 would expect期望
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每個人都料想得到
13:04
that when the degradation降解 of the oil happens發生,
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油滴會被分解
13:06
when the constituents成分 are liberated解放,
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油滴裡面的成分會被釋放出來
13:08
they disappear消失, they go away
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然後油滴就消失了
13:10
because they [were] absorbed吸收.
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因為它們會被吸收掉
13:12
Actually其實, what happens發生 is that a very intricate錯綜複雜 structure結構體 appears出現.
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實際上,在消化過程中會產生一種很精巧的結構
13:15
And I hope希望 you can see
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希望大家可以看得清楚
13:17
that there are some ring-like環狀的 structures結構 in the middle中間 image圖片,
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在中間的圖片,有一圈環狀的構造
13:19
which哪一個 is water.
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這是水
13:21
This whole整個 system系統 generates生成 a huge巨大 surface表面
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這樣的構造會創造出一個很大的表面積
13:24
to allow允許 more enzymes
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使得更多的消化酵素
13:26
to attack攻擊 the remaining其餘 oil.
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可以來攻擊、分解這些油滴
13:28
And finally最後, on your right side,
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最後,在右邊的圖片
13:30
you see a bubbly香檳酒,
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你可以看到泡狀、
13:32
cell-like細胞樣 structure結構體 appearing出現,
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類細胞的結構產生
13:34
from which哪一個 the body身體 will absorb吸收 the fat脂肪.
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身體就是從這些結構吸收油脂
13:38
Now if we could take this language語言 --
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現在如果我們讓這樣的語言
13:40
and this is a language語言 of structures結構 --
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這種結構的語言
13:43
and make it longer-lasting壽命更長,
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更持久
13:46
that it can go through通過
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讓飽足感的訊號
13:48
the passage通道 of the intestine,
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穿過整個腸道
13:51
it would generate生成 stronger signals信號.
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它就能夠產生更強烈的抑制訊號
13:55
So our research研究 --
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所以我們的研究
13:57
and I think the research研究 also at the universities高校 --
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以及其他的研究都指出
13:59
are now fixing定影 on these points
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問題其實是指向
14:01
to say: how can we actually其實 --
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我們該怎樣─
14:03
and this might威力 sound聲音 trivial不重要的 now to you --
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這對你來說可能無關緊要─
14:05
how can we change更改 cooking烹飪?
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改變我們烹煮食物的方式
14:07
How can we cook廚師
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我們要如何烹煮
14:09
that we have this language語言 developed發達?
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讓食物表達出這些結構語言?
14:12
So what we have actually其實, it's not an omnivore's雜食動物的 dilemma困境.
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所以實際上我們面對的,並不是雜食性動物的難題
14:15
We have a coctivor'scoctivor的 opportunity機會,
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相反的,我們有的是熟食性動物的契機
14:18
because we have learned學到了 over the last two million百萬 years年份
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因為我們已經從過去兩百萬年的經驗中學到
14:21
which哪一個 taste味道 and reward獎勵 --
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藉著味覺以及回饋
14:24
quite相當 sophisticated複雜的 to cook廚師 --
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來設計精巧的飲食
14:26
to please ourselves我們自己, to satisfy滿足 ourselves我們自己.
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來滿足、取悅我們自己
14:28
If we add the matrix矩陣,
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故我們在飲食鐵三角中加入食物基質
14:30
if we add the structure結構體 language語言, which哪一個 we have to learn學習,
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將這些得去了解的食物結構語言納入考量
14:33
when we learn學習 it, then we can put it back;
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當我們習得這些知識,就能讓結構語言
14:35
and around energy能源,
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成為圍繞著能量的第三個角
14:37
we could generate生成 a balance平衡,
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我們就可以透過
14:39
which哪一個 comes out
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我們最基本的技術,也就是烹煮
14:41
from our really primordial原始 operation手術: cooking烹飪.
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在味覺、回饋、能量之間取得平衡
14:45
So, to make cooking烹飪 really
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而要使烹煮這件事
14:48
a very important重要 element元件,
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成為很重要的元素
14:50
I would say even philosophers哲學家 have to change更改
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我想連哲學家都必須要改變
14:52
and have to finally最後 recognize認識
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並且體認到
14:54
that cooking烹飪 is what made製作 us.
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烹煮這項技術才是使我們之所以為我們的原因
14:57
So I would say, coquocoquo ergoERGO sum:
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因此,我想說:coquo ergo sum (拉丁語)
15:00
I cook廚師, therefore因此 I am.
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我煮故我在!
15:02
Thank you very much.
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謝謝大家
15:04
(Applause掌聲)
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.
Translated by Nim Chen
Reviewed by Ching-Yi Wu

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ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Heribert Watzke - Food scientist
Heribert Watzke studies the brain in our gut -- and works to develop new kinds of food that will satisfy our bodies and minds.

Why you should listen

Heribert Watzke set up the department of food material science at Nestlé in Switzerland, pulling together many disciplines, including chemistry, nutrition and neuroscience, in pursuit of ever better foods. Watzke's background is in chemistry -- in the mid-'80s, he was part of a groundbreaking team at Syracuse working on splitting water into hydrogen and oxygen to create alternative energy -- before moving to materials science.

At Nestlé's lab, Watzke focuses on the most basic form of human energy: the chemistry of food. Research on food has previously focused on its sensory qualities -- taste, aroma, texture. But there is much more to know. How does food's biological structure determine its quality, its digestibility, its nutritional qualities? What's the science of turning a biological structure (for instance, a kernel of grain) into something humans can make into pure energy (for instance, a slice of bread)? His team has been looking recently at the impact of food structure on fat digestion, in support of the fight against obesity. How much fat is needed to feel full? And how can we most effectively communicate with the 100 million neurons in our gut?

More profile about the speaker
Heribert Watzke | Speaker | TED.com