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António Guterres: Refugees have the right to be protected
António Guterres: Izbjeglice imaju pravo na zaštitu
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Visoki povjerenik Ujedinjenih Naroda za izbjeglice, António Guterres misli da možemo riješiti globalnu izbjegličku krizu -- i nudi snažne, neočekivane razloge da to neizostavno pokušamo. U razgovoru s TEDovim Brunom Guissanijem osvrće se na povijesne uzroke sadašnje krize i ocrtava raspoloženje europskih zemalja koje pokušavaju provjeriti, zbrinuti i naći smještaj za stotine tisuća očajnih obitelji. Šira slika: Guterres poziva na multilateralni zaokret u smjeru prihvaćanja i poštovanja -- opiranje grupama poput ISIS-ove anti-izbjegličke mašinerije za propagandu i regrutiranje.
António Guterres - Designate Secretary-General of the United Nations
António Guterres is at the forefront of advocating for refugee rights around the world. Full bio
António Guterres is at the forefront of advocating for refugee rights around the world. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:12
Bruno Giussani: Commissioner,
thank you for coming to TED.
thank you for coming to TED.
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Bruno Guissani: Povjereniče,
hvala na dolasku.
hvala na dolasku.
00:15
António Guterres: Pleasure.
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Antonio Guterres: Zadovoljstvo mi je.
00:16
BG: Let's start with a figure.
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BG: Započnimo jednom brojkom.
00:18
During 2015, almost one million refugees
and migrants arrived in Europe
and migrants arrived in Europe
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Tijekom 2015. gotovo milijun izbjeglica
i migranata pristiglo je u Europu
i migranata pristiglo je u Europu
00:22
from many different countries,
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iz mnogo različitih zemalja,
00:23
of course, from Syria and Iraq,
but also from Afghanistan
but also from Afghanistan
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naravno, iz Sirije i Iraka,
ali također iz Afganistana
ali također iz Afganistana
00:26
and Bangladesh and Eritrea and elsewhere.
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i Bangladeša i Eritreje
i drugih zemalja.
i drugih zemalja.
00:28
And there have been reactions
of two different kinds:
of two different kinds:
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Dvije su različite vrste reakcija:
00:31
welcoming parties and border fences.
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priredbe dobrodošlice i
ograde na granicama.
ograde na granicama.
00:35
But I want to look at it a little bit
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Ali ja bih se želio na to malo osvrnuti
00:37
from the short-term
and the long-term perspective.
and the long-term perspective.
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iz kratkoročne i dugoročne perspektive.
00:40
And the first question is very simple:
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Prvo pitanje je vrlo jednostavno:
00:43
Why has the movement of refugees
spiked so fast in the last six months?
spiked so fast in the last six months?
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Zašto je došlo do naglog povećanja
broja izbjeglica u zadnjih šest mjeseci?
broja izbjeglica u zadnjih šest mjeseci?
00:48
AG: Well, I think, basically,
what triggered this huge increase
what triggered this huge increase
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AG: Pa, ja mislim, u osnovi
ono što je izazvalo to ogromno povećanje
ono što je izazvalo to ogromno povećanje
00:51
was the Syrian refugee group.
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bila je grupa sirijskih izbjeglica.
00:53
There has been an increased movement
into Europe from Africa, from Asia,
into Europe from Africa, from Asia,
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Postojalo je pojačano kretanje
prema Europi iz Afrike, iz Azije,
prema Europi iz Afrike, iz Azije,
00:58
but slowly growing, and all of a sudden
we had this massive increase
we had this massive increase
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no ono je polagano raslo, i odjednom
smo imali to masovno povećanje
smo imali to masovno povećanje
01:01
in the first months of this year.
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u prvim mjesecima ove godine.
01:04
Why? I think there are three reasons,
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Zašto? Mislim da postoje tri razloga,
01:06
two long-term ones and the trigger.
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dva dugoročna i okidač.
01:08
The long-term ones,
in relation to Syrians,
in relation to Syrians,
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Oni dugoročni, u odnosu na Sirijce,
01:10
is that hope is less and less
clear for people.
clear for people.
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su da je za ljude nada
sve manje i manje vidljiva.
sve manje i manje vidljiva.
01:17
I mean, they look at their own country
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Mislim, oni gledaju vlastitu zemlju
01:19
and they don't see much hope
to go back home,
to go back home,
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i ne vide puno nade da se vrate kući,
01:22
because there is no political solution,
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zato jer nema političkog rješenja,
01:24
so there is no light
at the end of the tunnel.
at the end of the tunnel.
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pa nema ni svjetla na kraju tunela.
01:27
Second, the living conditions
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Drugo, uvjeti života Sirijaca
01:29
of the Syrians in the neighboring
countries have been deteriorating.
countries have been deteriorating.
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u susjednim zemljama su se pogoršali.
01:32
We just had research with the World Bank,
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Upravo smo imali istraživanje
sa Svjetskom bankom
sa Svjetskom bankom
01:34
and 87 percent of the Syrians in Jordan
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i 87 posto Sirijaca u Jordanu
01:39
and 93 percent of the Syrians in Lebanon
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i 93 posto Sirijaca u Libanonu
01:41
live below the national poverty lines.
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živi ispod nacionalnog praga siromaštva.
01:44
Only half of the children go to school,
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Samo polovica djece ide u školu,
01:47
which means that people
are living very badly.
are living very badly.
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što znači da ljudi žive vrlo loše.
01:50
Not only are they refugees, out of home,
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Ne samo da su izbjeglice,
izvan svog doma,
izvan svog doma,
01:52
not only have they suffered
what they have suffered,
what they have suffered,
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ne samo da su pretrpjeli
ono što su pretrpjeli,
ono što su pretrpjeli,
01:55
but they are living in very,
very dramatic conditions.
very dramatic conditions.
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već žive u vrlo, vrlo
dramatičnim uvjetima.
dramatičnim uvjetima.
01:57
And then the trigger
was when all of a sudden,
was when all of a sudden,
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A okidač je bio kada se odjednom
02:00
international aid decreased.
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međunarodna pomoć smanjila.
02:01
The World Food Programme was forced,
for lack of resources,
for lack of resources,
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Svjetski program za hranu bio je
prisiljen, zbog nedostatka sredstava,
prisiljen, zbog nedostatka sredstava,
02:04
to cut by 30 percent food support
to the Syrian refugees.
to the Syrian refugees.
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za 30 posto srezati pomoć u hrani
za sirijske izbjeglice.
za sirijske izbjeglice.
02:07
They're not allowed to work,
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Njima nije dozvoljeno da rade
02:09
so they are totally dependent
on international support,
on international support,
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pa su potpuno ovisni o
međunarodnoj pomoći
međunarodnoj pomoći
02:12
and they felt, "The world
is abandoning us."
is abandoning us."
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i osjećali su, "Svijet nas napušta."
02:15
And that, in my opinion, was the trigger.
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I to je, po mom mišljenju, bio okidač.
02:17
All of a sudden, there was a rush,
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Odjednom je nastala jurnjava
02:18
and people started to move
in large numbers
in large numbers
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i ljudi su se počeli kretati
u velikom broju
u velikom broju
02:20
and, to be absolutely honest,
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i, da budem potpuno pošten,
02:22
if I had been in the same situation
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da sam ja bio u istoj situaciji
02:24
and I would have been brave
enough to do it,
enough to do it,
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i da sam imao dovoljno
hrabrosti da to učinim,
hrabrosti da to učinim,
02:26
I think I would have done the same.
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mislim da bih učinio isto.
02:28
BG: But I think what surprised
many people is it's not only sudden,
many people is it's not only sudden,
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BG: Mislim da je mnoge iznenadilo
ne samo što je to bilo naglo
ne samo što je to bilo naglo
02:32
but it wasn't supposed to be sudden.
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nego što nije trebalo biti naglo.
02:35
The war in Syria has been
happening for five years.
happening for five years.
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Rat u Siriji traje pet godina.
02:37
Millions of refugees are in camps
and villages and towns around Syria.
and villages and towns around Syria.
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Milijuni izbjeglica su u kampovima
i selima i gradovima oko Sirije.
i selima i gradovima oko Sirije.
02:41
You have yourself warned
about the situation
about the situation
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Vi ste sami upozorili na situaciju
02:43
and about the consequences
of a breakdown of Libya, for example,
of a breakdown of Libya, for example,
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i na posljedice sloma Libije, na primjer,
02:46
and yet Europe looked totally unprepared.
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a ipak je Europa izgledala
posve nespremna.
posve nespremna.
02:50
AG: Well, unprepared because divided,
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AG: Pa, nespremna jer je bila podijeljena,
02:53
and when you are divided,
you don't want to recognize the reality.
you don't want to recognize the reality.
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a kada ste podijeljeni,
ne želite priznati realnost.
ne želite priznati realnost.
02:56
You prefer to postpone decisions,
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Radije odlažete odluke
02:58
because you do not have
the capacity to make them.
the capacity to make them.
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jer nemate sposobnost da ih donesete.
03:00
And the proof is that even when
the spike occurred,
the spike occurred,
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A dokaz je da čak kada se
vrhunac dogodio,
vrhunac dogodio,
03:04
Europe remained divided
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Europa je ostala podijeljena
03:05
and was unable to put in place
a mechanism to manage the situation.
a mechanism to manage the situation.
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i nesposobna da uspostavi mehanizam
za upravljanje situacijom.
za upravljanje situacijom.
03:11
You talk about one million people.
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Vi govorite o milijun ljudi.
03:12
It looks enormous,
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To izgleda enormno,
03:14
but the population of the European Union
is 550 million people,
is 550 million people,
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ali stanovništvo Europske unije
broji 550 milijuna ljudi,
broji 550 milijuna ljudi,
03:19
which means we are talking about one
per every 2,000 Europeans.
per every 2,000 Europeans.
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što znači da govorimo o jednom
na svakih 2.000 Europljana.
na svakih 2.000 Europljana.
03:23
Now, in Lebanon, we have one refugee
per three Lebanese.
per three Lebanese.
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U Libanonu imamo jednog izbjeglicu
na tri Libanonca
na tri Libanonca
03:27
And Lebanon? Struggling,
of course, but it's managing.
of course, but it's managing.
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A Libanon? Muči se, naravno, ali uspijeva.
03:31
So, the question is: is this something
that could have been managed
that could have been managed
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Dakle, pitanje je: je li ovo nešto
čime se moglo upravljati
čime se moglo upravljati
03:35
if -- not mentioning the most
important thing,
important thing,
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da -- ne spominjući najvažniiju stvar,
03:39
which would have been
addressing the root causes,
addressing the root causes,
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koja bi bila rješavanje temeljnih uzroka,
03:41
but forgetting about root causes for now,
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no zaboravimo zasada temeljne uzroke,
03:43
looking at the phenomenon as it is --
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gledajući na pojavu samu po sebi --
03:45
if Europe were able to come
together in solidarity
together in solidarity
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da je Europa bila sposobna
solidarno se udružiti
solidarno se udružiti
03:49
to create an adequate
reception capacity of entry points?
reception capacity of entry points?
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u stvaranju adekvatnog kapaciteta
za prihvat na ulaznim točkama?
za prihvat na ulaznim točkama?
03:53
But for that, the countries at entry
points need to be massively supported,
points need to be massively supported,
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No, za to, ulazne zemlje
trebaju ogromnu podršku,
trebaju ogromnu podršku,
03:58
and then screening the people
with security checks
with security checks
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i onda provjera ljudi
sigurnosnim kontrolama
sigurnosnim kontrolama
04:01
and all the other mechanisms,
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i svi drugi mehanizmi,
04:02
distributing those that are coming
into all European countries,
into all European countries,
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distribucija onih koji dolaze
u sve europske zemlje,
u sve europske zemlje,
04:06
according to the possibilities
of each country.
of each country.
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u skladu s mogućnostima svake zemlje.
04:08
I mean, if you look at
the relocation program
the relocation program
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Mislim, ako pogledate program relokacije
04:10
that was approved by the Commission,
always too little too late,
always too little too late,
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koji je odobrila Komisija,
uvijek premalo i prekasno,
uvijek premalo i prekasno,
04:14
or by the Council, too little too late --
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ili Vijeće, premalo i prekasno --
04:16
BG: It's already breaking down.
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BG: To se već raspada.
04:17
AG: My country is supposed
to receive four thousand.
to receive four thousand.
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AG: Moja zemlja bi trebala
primiti četiri tisuće.
primiti četiri tisuće.
04:20
Four thousand in Portugal means nothing.
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Četiri tisuće u Portugalu ne znači ništa.
04:22
So this is perfectly manageable
if it is managed,
if it is managed,
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To je savršeno izvedivo ako se provodi,
04:25
but in the present circumstances,
the pressure is at the point of entry,
the pressure is at the point of entry,
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no u sadašnjoj situaciji
pritisak je na ulazu,
pritisak je na ulazu,
04:29
and then, as people move
in this chaotic way through the Balkans,
in this chaotic way through the Balkans,
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i onda, krećući se na
ovaj kaotičan način kroz Balkan,
ovaj kaotičan način kroz Balkan,
04:32
then they come to Germany,
Sweden, basically, and Austria.
Sweden, basically, and Austria.
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onda dolaze u Njemačku,
Švedsku, prvenstveno, i Austriju.
Švedsku, prvenstveno, i Austriju.
04:36
They are the three countries that are,
in the end, receiving the refugees.
in the end, receiving the refugees.
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To su tri zemlje koje,
na kraju, primaju izbjeglice.
na kraju, primaju izbjeglice.
04:39
The rest of Europe is looking
without doing much.
without doing much.
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Ostatak Europe promatra
ne čineći mnogo.
ne čineći mnogo.
04:42
BG: Let me try to bring up
three questions,
three questions,
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BG: Dopustite mi da pokušam
postaviti tri pitanja,
postaviti tri pitanja,
04:44
playing a bit devil's advocate.
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igrajući se pomalo đavoljeg odvjetnika.
04:46
I'll try to ask them, make them blunt.
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Pokušat ću ih postaviti otvoreno.
04:49
But I think the questions are very present
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Iako mislim da su pitanja jako prisutna
04:51
in the minds of many people
in Europe right now,
in Europe right now,
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u mislima mnogih u Europi ovoga časa.
04:53
The first, of course, is about numbers.
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Prvo se, naravno, odnosi na brojke.
04:55
You say 550 million versus one million
is not much, but realistically,
is not much, but realistically,
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Vi kažete da 550 milijuna
prema milijun nije mnogo,
prema milijun nije mnogo,
05:00
how many people can Europe take?
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no, realno, koliko ljudi
može Europa podnijeti?
može Europa podnijeti?
05:02
AG: Well, that is a question
that has no answer,
that has no answer,
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AG: Pa, to je pitanje na
koje nema odgovora,
koje nema odgovora,
05:05
because refugees have
the right to be protected.
the right to be protected.
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jer izbjeglice imaju
pravo da budu zaštićene.
pravo da budu zaštićene.
05:09
And there is such a thing
as international law,
as international law,
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A postoji i nešto kao međunarodni zakon,
05:13
so there is no way you can say,
"I take 10,000 and that's finished."
"I take 10,000 and that's finished."
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pa ni na koji način ne možete reći,
"Uzet ću 10.000 i to je kraj."
"Uzet ću 10.000 i to je kraj."
05:17
I remind you of one thing:
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Podsjećam vas na jednu stvar:
05:19
in Turkey, at the beginning of the crisis,
I remember one minister saying,
I remember one minister saying,
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u Turskoj na početku ove krize
sjećam se jednog ministra koji je rekao,
sjećam se jednog ministra koji je rekao,
05:23
"Turkey will be able to receive
up to 100,000 people."
up to 100,000 people."
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"Turska će biti sposobna
primiti do 100.000 ljudi."
primiti do 100.000 ljudi."
05:26
Turkey has now two million
three-hundred thousand
three-hundred thousand
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Turska ih danas ima dva milijuna
i tristo tisuća, ili tu negdje,
i tristo tisuća, ili tu negdje,
05:29
or something of the sort,
if you count all refugees.
if you count all refugees.
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ako računate sve izbjeglice.
05:32
So I don't think it's fair to say
how many we can take.
how many we can take.
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Zato mislim da nije u redu
reći koliko ih možemo primiti.
reći koliko ih možemo primiti.
05:36
What it is fair to say is:
how we can we organize ourselves
how we can we organize ourselves
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Ono šte je u redu reći jest:
kako se možemo organizirati
kako se možemo organizirati
05:39
to assume our international
responsibilities?
responsibilities?
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da bismo preuzeli svoje
međunarodne odgovornosti?
međunarodne odgovornosti?
05:42
And Europe has not been able to do so,
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A Europa nije bila sposobna to učiniti
05:45
because basically, Europe is divided
because there is no solidarity
because there is no solidarity
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jer, u osnovi, Europa je podijeljena
jer nema solidarnosti
jer nema solidarnosti
05:48
in the European project.
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u Europskom projektu.
05:49
And it's not only about refugees;
there are many other areas.
there are many other areas.
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I nije to samo u vezi izbjeglica;
postoje i mnoga druga područja.
postoje i mnoga druga područja.
05:53
And let's be honest, this is the moment
in which we need more Europe
in which we need more Europe
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I budimo iskreni, ovo je trenutak u kojem
trebamo više Europe
trebamo više Europe
05:56
instead of less Europe.
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umjesto manje Europe.
05:58
But as the public less and less believes
in European institutions,
in European institutions,
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No, kako javnost sve manje vjeruje
u europske institucije,
u europske institucije,
06:02
it is also each time more difficult
to convince the public
to convince the public
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tako je svaki puta
sve teže uvjeriti javnost
sve teže uvjeriti javnost
06:06
that we need more Europe
to solve these problems.
to solve these problems.
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da trebamo više Europe
za rješavanje ovih problema.
za rješavanje ovih problema.
06:08
BG: We seem to be at the point
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BG: Izgleda da smo u točki
06:10
where the numbers turn into political
shifts, particularly domestically.
shifts, particularly domestically.
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gdje se brojevi pretvaraju u
političke preokrete, pogotovo unutarnje.
političke preokrete, pogotovo unutarnje.
06:13
We saw it again this weekend in France,
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Vidjeli smo to ponovo ovaj vikend
u Francuskoj,
u Francuskoj,
06:15
but we have seen it over
and over in many countries:
and over in many countries:
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no viđali smo to mnogo puta
u mnogo drugih zemalja:
u mnogo drugih zemalja:
06:17
in Poland and in Denmark
and in Switzerland and elsewhere,
and in Switzerland and elsewhere,
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U Poljskoj i u Danskoj
i u Švicarskoj i drugdje,
i u Švicarskoj i drugdje,
06:20
where the mood changes radically
because of the numbers,
because of the numbers,
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gdje se raspoloženje radikalno
mijenja zbog brojeva,
mijenja zbog brojeva,
06:24
although they are not very significant
in absolute numbers.
in absolute numbers.
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iako oni nisu značajni
u apsolutnim brojevima.
u apsolutnim brojevima.
06:30
The Prime Minister of --
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Premijer --
06:32
AG: But, if I may, on these:
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AG: Ali, ako mogu, u vezi toga:
06:34
I mean, what does a European see at home
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Mislim, što Europa vidi kod kuće
06:37
in a village where there are no migrants?
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u selu gdje nema migranata?
06:40
What a European sees is, on television,
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Ono što Europa vidi je, na televiziji
06:44
every single day, a few months ago,
opening the news every single day,
opening the news every single day,
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svaki dan, prije nekoliko mjeseci,
u udarnim vijestima svaki dan,
u udarnim vijestima svaki dan,
06:49
a crowd coming, uncontrolled,
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gomila dolazi, nekontrolirano,
06:51
moving from border to border,
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krećući se od granice do granice,
06:53
and the images on television
were of hundreds
were of hundreds
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a slike na televiziji prikazuju stotine
06:55
or thousands of people moving.
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ili tisuće ljudi u pokretu.
06:57
And the idea is that nobody
is taking care of it --
is taking care of it --
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I pomisao je da nitko
o tome ne vodi računa --
o tome ne vodi računa --
07:00
this is happening without any
kind of management.
kind of management.
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to se događa bez ikakvog nadzora.
07:04
And so their idea was,
"They are coming to my village."
"They are coming to my village."
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I tako je njihova predodžba bila,
"Oni dolaze u moje selo."
"Oni dolaze u moje selo."
07:06
So there was this completely false idea
that Europe was being invaded
that Europe was being invaded
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Dakle, postojala je ta potpuno pogrešna
predodžba da je Europa napadnuta
predodžba da je Europa napadnuta
07:10
and our way of life is going to change,
and everything will --
and everything will --
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i naš način života će se promijeniti,
i sve će --
i sve će --
07:14
And the problem is that if this
had been properly managed,
had been properly managed,
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3865
A problem je, da se ovime
pravilno upravljalo,
pravilno upravljalo,
07:18
if people had been properly received,
147
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da su ljudi bili primjereno primljeni,
dočekani dobrodošlicom,
dočekani dobrodošlicom,
07:20
welcomed, sheltered at point of entry,
screened at point of entry,
screened at point of entry,
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4715
zbrinuti na ulazu,
provjereni na ulazu,
provjereni na ulazu,
07:25
and the moved by plane
to different European countries,
to different European countries,
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i onda prebačeni avionom u
različite europske zemlje,
različite europske zemlje,
07:27
this would not have scared people.
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2158
to ne bi uplašilo ljude.
07:30
But, unfortunately, we have
a lot of people scared,
a lot of people scared,
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No, nažalost, mi smo
uplašili mnoge ljude,
uplašili mnoge ljude,
07:32
just because Europe was not able
to do the job properly.
to do the job properly.
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3023
samo zato jer Europa nije bila u stanju
pravilno obaviti posao.
pravilno obaviti posao.
07:35
BG: But there are villages in Germany
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443867
1992
BG: Ali ima sela u Njemačkoj
07:37
with 300 inhabitants and 1,000 refugees.
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3336
s 300 stanovnika i 1.000 izbjeglica.
07:41
So, what's your position?
155
449243
1974
Što vi o tome mislite?
07:43
How do you imagine these people reacting?
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451241
1967
Kako zamišljate reakciju tih ljudi?
07:45
AG: If there would be a proper
management of the situation
management of the situation
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2873
AG: Kada bi se pravilno
upravljalo situacijom
upravljalo situacijom
07:48
and the proper distribution
of people all over Europe,
of people all over Europe,
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3080
i primjereno distribuiralo ljude
diljem Europe,
diljem Europe,
07:51
you would always have
the percentage that I mentioned:
the percentage that I mentioned:
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2976
uvijek biste imali postotak
koji sam spomenuo
koji sam spomenuo
07:54
one per each 2,000.
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1802
jedan na svakih 2.000.
07:56
It is because things are not
properly managed
properly managed
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2269
Upravo zbog toga što stvari
nisu pravilno vođene
nisu pravilno vođene
07:58
that in the end we have situations
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1760
na kraju imamo situacije
08:00
that are totally impossible to live with,
and of course if you have a village --
and of course if you have a village --
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6417
s kojima je sasvim nemoguće živjeti,
i naravno da ako imate selo --
i naravno da ako imate selo --
08:06
in Lebanon, there are many villages
164
474577
1677
u Libanonu ima mnogo sela
08:08
that have more Syrians than Lebanese;
Lebanon has been living with that.
Lebanon has been living with that.
165
476278
3408
u kojima je više Sirijaca nego
Libanonaca; Libanon s tim živi.
Libanonaca; Libanon s tim živi.
08:11
I'm not asking for the same
to happen in Europe,
to happen in Europe,
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2267
Ja ne tražim da se isto dogodi u Europi,
08:14
for all European villages to have
more refugees than inhabitants.
more refugees than inhabitants.
167
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3187
da sva europska sela imaju
više izbjeglica nego stanovnika.
više izbjeglica nego stanovnika.
08:17
What I am asking is for Europe
to do the job properly,
to do the job properly,
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485212
3055
Ono što tražim je da Europa
ispravno obavi posao,
ispravno obavi posao,
08:20
and to be able to organize itself
to receive people
to receive people
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3421
i da je sposobna organizirati se
za prijem ljudi
za prijem ljudi
08:23
as other countries in the world
were forced to do in the past.
were forced to do in the past.
170
491736
2928
kao što su to bile prisiljene
činiti druge zemlje u prošlosti.
činiti druge zemlje u prošlosti.
08:26
BG: So, if you look at the global
situation not only at Europe --
situation not only at Europe --
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3064
BG: Dakle, ako pogledate globalnu
situaciju ne samo u Europi --
situaciju ne samo u Europi --
08:29
(Applause)
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1289
(Pljesak)
08:31
BG: Yes!
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1151
BG: Da!
08:32
(Applause)
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4634
(Pljesak)
08:36
BG: If you look at the global situation,
so, not only at Europe,
so, not only at Europe,
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3021
BG: Ako pogledate globalnu situaciju,
ne samo u Europi,
ne samo u Europi,
08:39
I know you can make
a long list of countries
a long list of countries
176
507967
2104
znam da bi mogli navesti
dugačku listu zemalja
dugačku listu zemalja
08:42
that are not really stepping up,
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510095
3123
koje zaista ne preuzimaju odgovornost,
08:45
but I'm more interested
in the other part --
in the other part --
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2448
no više me zanima drugi dio --
08:47
is there somebody
who's doing the right thing?
who's doing the right thing?
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2190
postoji li netko tko radi pravu stvar?
08:50
AG: Well, 86 percent
of the refugees in the world
of the refugees in the world
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2431
AG: Pa, 86 posto izbjeglica u svijetu
08:52
are in the developing world.
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520857
2055
nalazi se u zemljama u razvoju.
08:54
And if you look at
countries like Ethiopia --
countries like Ethiopia --
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522936
3320
I ako pogledate zemlje poput Etiopije --
08:58
Ethiopia has received
more than 600,000 refugees.
more than 600,000 refugees.
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3777
Etiopija je primila više
od 600.000 izbjeglica.
od 600.000 izbjeglica.
09:02
All the borders in Ethiopia are open.
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530486
2016
Sve granice Etiopije su otvorene.
09:05
And they have, as a policy,
185
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1868
I oni imaju, kao strategiju,
09:07
they call the "people to people" policy
that every refugee should be received.
that every refugee should be received.
186
535196
4096
koju zovu strategija "ljudi za ljude",
da svaki izbjeglica mora biti primljen.
da svaki izbjeglica mora biti primljen.
09:11
And they have South Sudanese,
187
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1579
I imaju izbjeglice iz Južnog Sudana,
09:12
they have Sudanese, they have Somalis.
188
540919
2008
iz Sudana, iz Somalije.
09:14
They have all the neighbors.
189
542951
1857
Imaju sve susjede.
09:16
They have Eritreans.
190
544832
1764
Imaju Eritrejce.
09:18
And, in general,
191
546929
1295
I, općenito,
09:20
African countries are extremely
welcoming of refugees coming,
welcoming of refugees coming,
192
548248
4180
afričke zemlje su izuzetno
susretljive prema izbjeglicama,
susretljive prema izbjeglicama,
09:24
and I would say that in the Middle East
193
552452
2572
i rekao bih da smo na Srednjem istoku
09:27
and in Asia, we have seen a tendency
for borders to be open.
for borders to be open.
194
555048
5193
i u Aziji vidjeli tendenciju
otvaranja granica.
otvaranja granica.
09:32
Now we see some problems
with the Syrian situation,
with the Syrian situation,
195
560265
3365
Sada nailazimo na neke probleme
sa sirijskom situacijom,
sa sirijskom situacijom,
09:35
as the Syrian situation evolved
into also a major security crisis,
into also a major security crisis,
196
563654
4257
kako se sirijska situacija razvila
u vodeću sigurnosnu krizu,
u vodeću sigurnosnu krizu,
09:39
but the truth is that for a large period,
197
567935
2093
no istina je da su kroz dugi period
09:42
all borders in the Middle East were open.
198
570052
1992
sve granice na Srednjem istoku
bile otvorene.
bile otvorene.
09:44
The truth is that for Afghans,
199
572068
1452
Istina je da su za Afganistance
09:45
the borders of Pakistan and Iran
were open for, at the time,
were open for, at the time,
200
573544
2833
granice Pakistana i Irana bile
otvorene za, u datom trenutku,
otvorene za, u datom trenutku,
09:48
six million Afghans that came.
201
576401
1893
šest milijuna Afganistanaca koji su došli.
09:50
So I would say that even today,
the trend in the developing world
the trend in the developing world
202
578318
3821
Rekao bih da čak i danas
u zemljama u razvoju
u zemljama u razvoju
09:54
has been for borders to be open.
203
582163
2326
postoji trend otvorenih granica.
09:56
The trend in the developed world
is for these questions to become
is for these questions to become
204
584513
4412
Trend u razvijenom svijetu
je da ta pitanja postaju
je da ta pitanja postaju
10:00
more and more complex,
205
588949
2106
sve složenija,
10:03
especially when there is,
in the public opinion,
in the public opinion,
206
591079
2571
posebno kada postoje,
po mišljenju javnosti,
po mišljenju javnosti,
10:05
a mixture of discussions between refugee
protections on one side
protections on one side
207
593674
5083
različite rasprave o pitanjima
zaštite izbjeglica, s jedne strane,
zaštite izbjeglica, s jedne strane,
10:10
and security questions -- in my opinion,
misinterpreted -- on the other side.
misinterpreted -- on the other side.
208
598781
3639
i pitanjima sigurnosti -- po mom mišljenju
pogrešno prikazanim -- na drugoj strani.
pogrešno prikazanim -- na drugoj strani.
10:14
BG: We'll come back to that too,
209
602444
1541
BG: Vratit ćemo se na to,
10:16
but you mentioned the cutting
of funding and the vouchers
of funding and the vouchers
210
604009
2740
no vi ste spomenuli rezanje
financiranja i vaučera
financiranja i vaučera
10:18
from the World Food Programme.
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1460
Svjetskog programa za hranu.
10:20
That reflects the general underfunding
of the organizations
of the organizations
212
608257
2833
To odražava opće nedovoljno
financiranje organizacija
financiranje organizacija
10:23
working on these issues.
213
611114
2316
koje rade na tim problemima.
10:26
Now that the world seems to have woken up,
214
614155
2555
Sada kada se svijet izgleda probudio,
10:28
are you getting more funding
and more support,
and more support,
215
616734
2191
dobivate li više sredstava i više podrške,
10:30
or it's still the same?
216
618949
1413
ili je to još uvijek isto?
10:32
AG: We are getting more support.
217
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1799
AG: Dobivamo veću podršku.
10:34
I would say that we are coming
close to the levels of last year.
close to the levels of last year.
218
622209
4433
Rekao bih da sustižemo
razine od prošle godine.
razine od prošle godine.
10:39
We were much worse during the summer.
219
627100
2349
Bilo nam je mnogo gore tijekom ljeta.
10:41
But that is clearly insufficient
to address the needs of the people
to address the needs of the people
220
629799
3858
No to je još uvijek očito nedovoljno
za zadovoljenje potreba ljudi
za zadovoljenje potreba ljudi
10:45
and address the needs of the countries
221
633681
1890
i potreba zemalja
10:47
that are supporting the people.
222
635595
1499
koje pomažu tim ljudima.
10:49
And here we have a basic review
of the criteria, the objectives,
of the criteria, the objectives,
223
637118
5926
A ovdje imamo osnovni pregled
kriterija, ciljeva,
kriterija, ciljeva,
10:55
the priorities of development
cooperation that is required.
cooperation that is required.
224
643068
2792
prioriteta za razvoj suradnje.
10:57
For instance, Lebanon and Jordan
are middle-income countries.
are middle-income countries.
225
645884
3003
Na primjer, Libanon i Jordan su zemlje
sa srednje visokim prihodom.
sa srednje visokim prihodom.
11:00
Because they are middle-income countries,
226
648911
1974
Zbog toga što su zemlje srednjeg prihoda
11:02
they cannot receive soft loans
or grants from the World Bank.
or grants from the World Bank.
227
650909
2911
ne mogu dobiti povoljne kredite
ili potpore od Svjetske banke.
ili potpore od Svjetske banke.
11:05
Now, today this doesn't make any sense,
228
653844
2199
To danas nema nikakvog smisla
11:08
because they are providing
a global public good.
a global public good.
229
656067
2329
jer oni se brinu za globalno javno dobro.
11:10
They have millions of refugees there,
230
658420
1810
Oni tamo imaju milijune izbjeglica,
11:12
and to be honest, they are pillars
of stability in the region,
of stability in the region,
231
660254
3490
i budimo pošteni, oni su
stupovi stabilnosti u regiji,
stupovi stabilnosti u regiji,
11:15
with all the difficulties they face,
232
663768
1738
sa svim teškoćama
s kojima se suočavaju,
s kojima se suočavaju,
11:17
and the first line of defense
of our collective security.
of our collective security.
233
665530
2690
i prva linija obrane
naše kolektivne sigurnosti.
naše kolektivne sigurnosti.
11:20
So it doesn't make sense
234
668244
1163
Zato nema smisla
11:21
that these countries
are not a first priority
are not a first priority
235
669431
2143
da te zemlje nemaju prvenstvo
11:23
in development cooperation policies.
236
671598
1745
u razvoju politika suradnje.
11:25
And they are not.
237
673367
1159
A nemaju.
11:26
And not only do the refugees live
in very dramatic circumstances
in very dramatic circumstances
238
674550
3402
I ne samo da izbjeglice žive
u vrlo dramatičnim uvjetima
u vrlo dramatičnim uvjetima
11:29
inside those countries,
239
677976
1230
unutar tih zemalja
11:31
but the local communities
themselves are suffering,
themselves are suffering,
240
679230
2826
nego i same lokalne zajednice trpe
11:34
because salaries went down,
241
682080
2256
zato jer dohodak pada
11:37
because there are more unemployed,
242
685491
1647
zato jer je više nezaposlenih,
11:39
because prices and rents went up.
243
687162
2400
zato jer su cijene i stanarine porasle.
11:42
And, of course, if you look
at today's situation
at today's situation
244
690238
3944
I naravno, ako pogledate
današnju situaciju
današnju situaciju
11:46
of the indicators in these countries,
245
694206
3098
pokazatelja u tim zemljama
11:49
it is clear that, especially
their poor groups of the population,
their poor groups of the population,
246
697328
5483
jasno je da, posebno siromašni dijelovi
njihove populacije,
njihove populacije,
11:54
are living worse and worse
because of the crisis they are facing.
because of the crisis they are facing.
247
702835
3235
žive sve gore i gore
zbog krize s kojom su suočeni.
zbog krize s kojom su suočeni.
11:58
BG: Who should be providing this support?
248
706094
1984
BG: Tko bi trebao osigurati tu podršku?
12:00
Country by country, international
organizations, the European Union?
organizations, the European Union?
249
708102
3321
Zemlja po zemlja, međunarodne
organizacije, Europska unija?
organizacije, Europska unija?
12:03
Who should be coming up with this support?
250
711447
2048
Tko bi trebao pružiti tu podršku?
12:05
AG: We need to join all efforts.
251
713519
1545
AG: Mi moramo udružiti sva nastojanja.
12:07
It's clear that bilateral
cooperation is essential.
cooperation is essential.
252
715088
2545
Jasno je da je bilateralna
suradnja ključna.
suradnja ključna.
12:09
It's clear that multilateral
cooperation is essential.
cooperation is essential.
253
717657
2763
Jasno je daje multilateralna
suradnja ključna.
suradnja ključna.
12:12
It's clear that international financial
institutions should have flexibility
institutions should have flexibility
254
720444
3595
Jasno je da bi međunarodne financijske
institucije morale biti fleksibilne
institucije morale biti fleksibilne
12:16
in order to be able to invest
more massively
more massively
255
724063
2719
kako bi mogle obimnije financirati
12:18
in support to these countries.
256
726806
1526
i pomoći tim zemljama.
12:20
We need to combine all the instruments
and to understand that today,
and to understand that today,
257
728356
3246
Mi bismo trebali kombinirati sve
instrumente i razumijeti da danas,
instrumente i razumijeti da danas,
12:23
in protracted situations,
at a certain moment,
at a certain moment,
258
731626
2446
u dugotrajnim situacijama,
u određenom trenutku,
u određenom trenutku,
12:26
that it doesn't make sense anymore
to make a distinction
to make a distinction
259
734096
2670
više nema smisla raditi razliku
12:28
between humanitarian aid
and development aid
and development aid
260
736790
3649
između humanitarne pomoći
i pomoći za razvoj
i pomoći za razvoj
12:32
or development processes.
261
740463
2349
ili razvojne procese.
12:34
Because you are talking
about children in school,
about children in school,
262
742836
3603
Zbog toga što govorite o djeci u školi,
12:38
you are talking about health,
263
746463
1409
govorite o zdravlju,
12:39
you are talking about infrastructure
that is overcrowded.
that is overcrowded.
264
747896
2832
govorite o infrastrukturi
koja je preopterećena.
koja je preopterećena.
12:42
You are talking about things
that require a long-term perspective,
that require a long-term perspective,
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Vi govorite o stvarima koje zahtijevaju
dugoročnu perspektivu,
dugoročnu perspektivu,
12:46
a development perspective
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razvojnu perspektivu,
12:47
and not only an emergency
humanitarian aid perspective.
humanitarian aid perspective.
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a ne samo perspektivu
hitne humanitarne pomoći.
hitne humanitarne pomoći.
12:51
BG: I would like your comment on something
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BG: Želio bih komentirati nešto
12:53
that was in newspapers this morning.
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što je jutros bilo u novinama.
12:54
It is a statement made
by the current front-runner
by the current front-runner
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To je izjava trenutno vodećeg kandidata
13:00
for the Republican nomination
for US President, Donald Trump.
for US President, Donald Trump.
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za nominaciju Republikanske stranke
za predsjednika SAD-a, Donalda Trumpa.
za predsjednika SAD-a, Donalda Trumpa.
13:03
Yesterday, he said this.
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Jučer je rekao ovo.
13:05
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
13:06
No, listen to this. It's interesting.
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Ne, slušajte ovo. Zanimljivo je.
13:07
I quote: "I am calling for a total
and complete shutdown
and complete shutdown
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Citiram: "Ja tražim totalnu
i potpunu zabranu ulaza
i potpunu zabranu ulaza
13:10
of Muslims entering the US,
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u SAD za sve Muslimane,
13:12
until our country's representatives
can figure out what's going on."
can figure out what's going on."
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sve dok predstavnici naše zemlje
ne ustanove što se događa."
ne ustanove što se događa."
13:17
How do you react to that?
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Što kažete na to?
13:18
AG: Well, it's not only Donald Trump.
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AG: Pa, nije to samo Donald Trump.
13:20
We have seen several people
around the world
around the world
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Vidjeli smo nekoliko ljudi
diljem svijeta
diljem svijeta
13:23
with political responsibility
saying, for instance,
saying, for instance,
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s političkom odgovornošću
koji kažu, na primjer,
koji kažu, na primjer,
13:25
that Muslims refugees
should not be received.
should not be received.
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da izbjeglice Muslimane
ne bi trebalo primati.
ne bi trebalo primati.
13:28
And the reason why they say this
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A razlog zbog kojeg to kažu je
13:31
is because they think
that by doing or saying this,
that by doing or saying this,
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što misle da čineći ili govoreći to
13:34
they are protecting
the security of their countries.
the security of their countries.
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štite sigurnost svojih zemalja.
13:37
Now, I've been in government.
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Ja sam bio u vladi.
13:38
I am very keen on the need for governments
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Podupirem potrebu vlada da štite
13:41
to protect the security of their countries
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sigurnost svojih zemalja
13:43
and their people.
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1151
i svojih naroda.
13:44
But if you say, like that,
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812764
2923
No, ako na ovaj način kažete
13:47
in the US or in any European country,
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u SAD-u ili bilo kojoj europskoj zemlji,
13:50
"We are going to close our doors
to Muslim refugees,"
to Muslim refugees,"
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818241
3946
"Zatvorit ćemo svoja vrata
za izbjeglice Muslimane,"
za izbjeglice Muslimane,"
13:54
what you are saying
is the best possible help
is the best possible help
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822211
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to što govorite najbolja je
moguća pomoć
moguća pomoć
13:57
for the propaganda
of terrorist organizations.
of terrorist organizations.
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2410
propagandi terorističkih organizacija.
14:00
Because what you are saying --
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1612
Jer ono što vi govorite --
14:01
(Applause)
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829782
5575
(Pljesak)
14:07
What you are saying will be heard
by all the Muslims in your own country,
by all the Muslims in your own country,
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5583
Ono što govorite čuti će svi Muslimani
u vašoj vlastitoj zemlji
u vašoj vlastitoj zemlji
14:12
and it will pave the way
for the recruitment
for the recruitment
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2073
i to će utrti put za regrutiranje
14:15
and the mechanisms that,
through technology,
through technology,
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2621
i mehanizme kojima, putem tehnologije,
14:17
Daesh and al-Nusra, al-Qaeda,
and all those other groups
and all those other groups
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845730
3855
Daesh i al-Nusra, al-Qaeda
i sve te druge grupe
i sve te druge grupe
14:21
are today penetrating in our societies.
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danas prodiru u naša društva.
14:24
And it's just telling them,
"You are right, we are against you."
"You are right, we are against you."
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A to im upravo govori,
"U pravu ste, mi smo protiv vas."
"U pravu ste, mi smo protiv vas."
14:28
So obviously, this is creating
in societies that are all multiethnic,
in societies that are all multiethnic,
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Dakle očito je da to u društvima
koja su sva multietnička
koja su sva multietnička
14:34
multi-religious, multicultural,
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1749
multi-religijska, multikulturalna,
14:36
this is creating a situation
in which, really,
in which, really,
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864363
3372
stvara situaciju u kojoj je zapravo
14:39
it is much easier for the propaganda
of these terrorist organizations
of these terrorist organizations
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867759
3390
puno lakše za propagandu
tih terorističkih organizacija
tih terorističkih organizacija
14:43
to be effective in recruiting
people for terror acts
people for terror acts
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871173
5113
da bude učinkovita u
regrutiranju ljudi za teroristička djela
regrutiranju ljudi za teroristička djela
14:48
within the countries where these kinds
of sentences are expressed.
of sentences are expressed.
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876310
3914
unutar zemalja u kojima se
izjavljuju ovakve rečenice.
izjavljuju ovakve rečenice.
14:52
BG: Have the recent attacks in Paris
and the reactions to them
and the reactions to them
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880248
2983
BG: Jesu li nedavni napadi u Parizu
i reakcije na njih
i reakcije na njih
14:55
made your job more difficult?
310
883255
1983
otežale vaš posao?
14:57
AG: Undoubtedly.
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1359
AG: Nesumnjivo.
14:58
BG: In what sense?
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1461
BG: U kojem smislu?
15:00
AG: In the sense that, I mean,
for many people the first reaction
for many people the first reaction
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4316
AG: U smislu da, hoću reći,
za mnoge ljude prva reakcija
za mnoge ljude prva reakcija
15:05
in relation to these kinds of terrorist
attacks is: close all borders --
attacks is: close all borders --
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893332
3420
u vezi ovakvih terorističkih
napada je: zatvorite sve granice --
napada je: zatvorite sve granice --
15:08
not understanding that the terrorist
problem in Europe is largely homegrown.
problem in Europe is largely homegrown.
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4445
ne shvaćajući da je problem terorizma u
Europi uglavnom "domaći".
Europi uglavnom "domaći".
15:13
We have thousands and thousands
of European fighters in Syria and in Iraq,
of European fighters in Syria and in Iraq,
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901245
4973
Mi imamo tisuće i tisuće
europskih boraca u Siriji i Iraku,
europskih boraca u Siriji i Iraku,
15:18
so this is not something that you solve
by just not allowing Syrians to come in.
by just not allowing Syrians to come in.
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4230
dakle to nije nešto što ćete riješiti
samo zabranom ulaza Sirijcima.
samo zabranom ulaza Sirijcima.
15:22
And I must say, I am convinced
318
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2456
I moram reći, uvjeren sam
15:24
that the passport that appeared,
319
912976
4172
da je putovnicu koja se pojavila,
15:29
I believe, was put
by the person who has blown --
by the person who has blown --
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917172
3747
vjerujem, podmetnula osoba
koja je dignula u zrak --
koja je dignula u zrak --
15:32
BG: -- himself up, yeah.
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920943
1531
BG: -- sebe samog, da.
15:34
AG: [I believe] it was on purpose,
322
922498
1911
AG: [Vjerujem] da je to bilo namjerno
15:36
because part of the strategies
of Daesh is against refugees,
of Daesh is against refugees,
323
924433
3618
jer dio strategije Daesha
je protiv izbjeglica,
je protiv izbjeglica,
15:40
because they see refugees as people
that should be with the caliphate
that should be with the caliphate
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928075
3413
zato jer oni izbjeglice vide kao
ljude koji bi trebali biti uz kalifat,
ljude koji bi trebali biti uz kalifat,
15:43
and are fleeing to the crusaders.
325
931512
2452
a traže utočište kod križara.
15:45
And I think that is part of Daesh's
strategy to make Europe react,
strategy to make Europe react,
326
933988
4063
I mislim da je dio strategije Daesha
da Europu prisili da reagira
da Europu prisili da reagira
15:50
closing its doors to Muslim refugees
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938075
2391
zatvarajući svoja vrata
izbjeglicama Muslimanima
izbjeglicama Muslimanima
15:52
and having an hostility
towards Muslims inside Europe,
towards Muslims inside Europe,
328
940490
3691
i gajeći neprijateljstvo prema
Muslimanima unutar Europe,
Muslimanima unutar Europe,
15:56
exactly to facilitate Daesh's work.
329
944205
3522
upravo kako bi se olakšao rad Daesha.
15:59
And my deep belief is that
it was not the refugee movement
it was not the refugee movement
330
947751
4508
I moje duboko uvjerenje je da
pokret izbjeglica nije bio taj
pokret izbjeglica nije bio taj
16:04
that triggered terrorism.
331
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1681
koji je izazvao terorizam.
16:05
I think, as I said,
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953988
1160
Ja mislim, kao što sam rekao,
16:07
essentially terrorism in Europe
is today a homegrown movement
is today a homegrown movement
333
955172
3527
u osnovi, terorizam u Europi
je danas "domaći" pokret
je danas "domaći" pokret
16:10
in relation to the global situation
that we are facing,
that we are facing,
334
958723
3295
u vezi globalne situacije
s kojom se suočavamo,
s kojom se suočavamo,
16:14
and what we need is exactly
to prove these groups wrong,
to prove these groups wrong,
335
962042
4420
a ono što trebamo upravo je
dokazati da te grupe nisu u pravu
dokazati da te grupe nisu u pravu
16:18
by welcoming and integrating effectively
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966486
3473
prihvaćajući i učinkovito integrirajući
16:21
those that are coming
from that part of the world.
from that part of the world.
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969983
2403
one koji dolaze iz tog dijela svijeta.
16:24
And another thing that I believe
is that to a large extent,
is that to a large extent,
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972410
3016
I još jedna stvar koju vjerujem
jest da u velikoj mjeri
jest da u velikoj mjeri
16:27
what we are today paying for in Europe
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975450
2463
ono za što danas plaćamo u Europi
16:29
is the failures of integration models
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977937
2170
jesu neuspjesi integracijskih modela
16:32
that didn't work in the '60s,
in the '70s, in the '80s,
in the '70s, in the '80s,
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980131
3141
koji nisu funkcionirali u 60-ima,
u 70-ima, u 80-ima,
u 70-ima, u 80-ima,
16:35
in relation to big migration flows
that took place at that time
that took place at that time
342
983296
2971
u odnosu na velike migracijske tokove
koji su se tada događali
koji su se tada događali
16:38
and generated what is today
in many of the people, for instance,
in many of the people, for instance,
343
986291
3789
i stvorili ono što je danas
kod mnogih ljudi, na primjer,
kod mnogih ljudi, na primjer,
16:42
of the second generation of communities,
344
990104
2743
druge generacije zajednica,
16:44
a situation of feeling marginalized,
345
992871
4131
situacija da se osjećaju marginalizirani,
16:49
having no jobs,
346
997026
1390
nemajući posla,
16:50
having improper education,
347
998440
1539
nemajući primjereno obrazovanje,
16:52
living in some of the neighborhoods
that are not adequately provided
that are not adequately provided
348
1000003
5225
živeći u nekim od kvartova
koji nisu adekvatno opskrbljeni
koji nisu adekvatno opskrbljeni
16:57
by public infrastructure.
349
1005252
2242
javnom infrastrukturom.
16:59
And this kind of uneasiness,
sometimes even anger,
sometimes even anger,
350
1007518
4833
I ta vrsta tjeskobe,
ponekad čak i bijesa,
ponekad čak i bijesa,
17:04
that exists in this second generation
351
1012375
2469
koja postoji kod te druge generacije
17:06
is largely due to the failure
of integration policies,
of integration policies,
352
1014868
3023
uglavnom je posljedica neuspjeha
integracijske politike,
integracijske politike,
17:09
to the failure of what should have been
a much stronger investment
a much stronger investment
353
1017915
3881
neuspjeha nečega što je
trebalo biti puno jača investicija
trebalo biti puno jača investicija
17:13
in creating the conditions for people
to live together and respect each other.
to live together and respect each other.
354
1021820
4388
u stvaranje uvjeta za ljude
da žive zajedno i poštuju jedni druge.
da žive zajedno i poštuju jedni druge.
17:18
For me it is clear.
355
1026232
1308
Po meni je to jasno.
17:19
(Applause)
356
1027564
3241
(Pljesak)
17:22
For me it is clear that all societies
will be multiethnic, multicultural,
will be multiethnic, multicultural,
357
1030829
3870
Po meni je jasno da će sve zajednice
biti multietničke, multikulturalne,
biti multietničke, multikulturalne,
17:26
multi-religious in the future.
358
1034723
1626
multi-religijske u budućnosti.
17:28
To try to avoid it is,
in my opinion, impossible.
in my opinion, impossible.
359
1036666
3238
Pokušavati to izbjeći,
po mom mišljenju, nemoguće je.
po mom mišljenju, nemoguće je.
17:32
And for me it's a good thing
that they will be like that,
that they will be like that,
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1040420
2900
I za mene je to dobra stvar
da će biti takve,
da će biti takve,
17:35
but I also recognize that,
for that to work properly,
for that to work properly,
361
1043344
3378
no ja također priznajem,
da bi to dobro funkcioniralo
da bi to dobro funkcioniralo
17:38
you need a huge investment
362
1046746
1956
potrebna vam je ogromna investicija
17:40
in the social cohesion
of your own societies.
of your own societies.
363
1048726
2436
u socijalnu koheziju vaših
vlastitih zajednica.
vlastitih zajednica.
17:43
And Europe, to a large extent,
failed in that investment
failed in that investment
364
1051186
3674
A Europa je, u velikoj mjeri,
podbacila u toj investiciji
podbacila u toj investiciji
17:46
in the past few decades.
365
1054884
3213
u zadnjih nekoliko desetljeća.
17:50
BG: Question: You are stepping down
from your job at the end of the year,
from your job at the end of the year,
366
1058121
3996
BG: Pitanje: Krajem godine vi
napuštate svoj posao,
napuštate svoj posao,
17:54
after 10 years.
367
1062141
1533
nakon 10 godina.
17:55
If you look back at 2005,
368
1063698
1437
Ako pogledate unatrag na 2005.-u,
17:57
when you entered that office
for the first time, what do you see?
for the first time, what do you see?
369
1065159
3075
kada ste ušli u taj ured
po prvi puta, što vidite?
po prvi puta, što vidite?
18:01
AG: Well, look:
370
1069491
1855
AG: Pa, gledajte:
18:04
In 2005, we were helping
one million people go back home
one million people go back home
371
1072466
5377
U 2005.-oj mi smo pomagali
milijunu ljudi da se vrate domovima
milijunu ljudi da se vrate domovima
18:09
in safety and dignity,
because conflicts had ended.
because conflicts had ended.
372
1077867
3048
u sigurnosti i dostojanstvu
jer su sukobi završili.
jer su sukobi završili.
18:13
Last year, we helped 124,000.
373
1081692
2665
Prošle godine smo pomogli 124.000.
18:17
In 2005, we had about 38 million people
displaced by conflict in the world.
displaced by conflict in the world.
374
1085659
5088
U 2005.-oj imali smo oko 38 milijuna
raseljenih zbog sukoba u svijetu.
raseljenih zbog sukoba u svijetu.
18:22
Today, we have more than 60 million.
375
1090771
2471
Danas ih imamo više od 60 milijuna.
18:26
At that time, we had had, recently,
376
1094052
3067
U to vrijeme smo bili imali, nedavno,
18:29
some conflicts that were solved.
377
1097143
2679
neke sukobe koji su riješeni.
18:32
Now, we see a multiplication
of new conflicts
of new conflicts
378
1100393
2307
Sada vidimo množenje novih sukoba,
18:34
and the old conflicts never died:
379
1102724
1841
a stari sukobi nikada nisu ugašeni:
18:36
Afghanistan, Somalia,
Democratic Republic of Congo.
Democratic Republic of Congo.
380
1104589
3356
Afganistan, Somalija,
Demokratska Republika Kongo.
Demokratska Republika Kongo.
18:39
It is clear that the world today
is much more dangerous than it was.
is much more dangerous than it was.
381
1107969
4056
Jasno je da je svijet danas mnogo
opasniji no što je bio.
opasniji no što je bio.
18:44
It is clear that the capacity
of the international community
of the international community
382
1112049
2844
Jasno je da je kapacitet
međunarodne zajednice
međunarodne zajednice
18:46
to prevent conflicts
and to timely solve them,
and to timely solve them,
383
1114917
2876
za sprečavanje sukoba i
njihovo pravovremeno rješavanje,
njihovo pravovremeno rješavanje,
18:49
is, unfortunately, much worse
than what it was 10 years ago.
than what it was 10 years ago.
384
1117817
4154
nažalost, mnogo slabiji
no što je bio prije 10 godina.
no što je bio prije 10 godina.
18:53
There are no clear
power relations in the world,
power relations in the world,
385
1121995
2745
Ne postoje jasni odnosi snaga u svijetu,
18:56
no global governance mechanisms that work,
386
1124764
2493
nema globalnih vladajućih
mehanizama koji funkcioniraju,
mehanizama koji funkcioniraju,
18:59
which means that we live in a situation
387
1127281
2779
što znači da živimo u situaciji
19:02
where impunity and unpredictability
tend to prevail, and that means
tend to prevail, and that means
388
1130084
4926
u kojoj prevladavaju
nekažnjavanje i nepredvidivost,
nekažnjavanje i nepredvidivost,
19:07
that more and more people suffer,
389
1135034
2415
a to znači da sve više ljudi trpi,
19:09
namely those that are
displaced by conflicts.
displaced by conflicts.
390
1137473
2393
napose oni koji su
raseljeni zbog sukoba.
raseljeni zbog sukoba.
19:11
BG: It's a tradition in American politics
391
1139890
2006
BG: Tradicija je u američkoj politici
19:13
that when a President leaves
the Oval Office for the last time,
the Oval Office for the last time,
392
1141920
3630
da kada Predsjednik napušta
Ovalni ured zadnji puta,
Ovalni ured zadnji puta,
19:17
he leaves a handwritten note
on the desk for his successor
on the desk for his successor
393
1145574
2777
na stolu ostavlja rukom pisanu
poruku za svog nasljednika
poruku za svog nasljednika
19:20
that walks in a couple of hours later.
394
1148375
2101
koji ulazi nekoliko sati kasnije.
19:22
If you had to write such a note
to your successor, Filippo Grandi,
to your successor, Filippo Grandi,
395
1150500
3185
Kada biste morali napisati
takvu poruku svom nasljedniku,
takvu poruku svom nasljedniku,
19:25
what would you write?
396
1153709
1152
Fillipu Grandiju, što biste napisali?
19:26
AG: Well, I don't think
I would write any message.
I would write any message.
397
1154885
3064
AG: Pa, mislim da ne bih
pisao nikakvu poruku.
pisao nikakvu poruku.
19:29
You know, one of the terrible things
when one leaves an office
when one leaves an office
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Znate, jedna od groznih stvari
kada netko napušta ured
kada netko napušta ured
19:32
is to try to become the backseat driver,
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je da pokušava postati suvozač,
19:35
always telling the new one what to do.
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stalno govoreći novome što da radi.
19:38
So that, I will not do.
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Zato ja to neću raditi.
19:40
If I had to say something to him,
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Kada bih mu imao nešto za reći,
19:42
it would be, "Be yourself,
and do your best."
and do your best."
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to bi bilo, "Budi svoj i
radi najbolje što znaš."
radi najbolje što znaš."
19:44
BG: Commissioner, thank you
for the job you do.
for the job you do.
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BG: Povjereniče, hvala vam
za posao koji radite.
za posao koji radite.
19:47
Thank you for coming to TED.
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Hvala što ste došli na TED.
19:48
(Applause)
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(Pljesak)
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
António Guterres - Designate Secretary-General of the United NationsAntónio Guterres is at the forefront of advocating for refugee rights around the world.
Why you should listen
A former Portuguese prime minister, António Guterres was elected by the UN General Assembly to become the 10th United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees in June 2005. In October 2016 the United Nations Security Council announced he would be the next United Nations Secretary General, succeeding the retiring Ban Ki-moon.
As High Commissioner, he heads one of the world's foremost humanitarian organizations. UNHCR has twice won the Nobel Peace Prize. Its over 9,300 staff members work in 123 countries providing protection and assistance to nearly 55 million refugees, returnees, internally displaced people and stateless persons. Some 88 percent of UNHCR staff work in the field, often in difficult and dangerous duty stations.
Before joining UNHCR, Guterres spent more than 20 years in government and public service. He served as Portuguese prime minister from 1995 to 2002, during which time he was heavily involved in the international effort to resolve the crisis in East Timor. As president of the European Council in early 2000, he led the adoption of the so-called Lisbon Agenda and co-chaired the first European Union-Africa summit. He also founded the Portuguese Refugee Council in 1991 and was part of the Council of State of Portugal from 1991 to 2002.
From 1981 to 1983, Guterres was a member of the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe, as well as chairman of the Committee on Demography, Migration and Refugees. In addition, he has been active in Socialist International, a worldwide organization of social democratic political parties. He was the group's vice-president from 1992 to 1999 and president from 1999 until mid-2005.
Guterres was born on April 30, 1949, in Lisbon and educated at the Instituto Superior Técnico, where he remains a visiting professor. He is married and has two children.
António Guterres | Speaker | TED.com