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António Guterres: Refugees have the right to be protected
António Guterres: Pengungsi punya hak untuk dilindungi
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Komisaris Tinggi PBB untuk Pengungsi António Guterres beranggapan kita bisa menyelesaikan krisis pengungsi global -- dan ia menjelaskan alasan kuat dan mengagetkan tentang kenapa kita harus mencobanya. Dalam percakapan dengan Bruno Giussani dari TED, Guterres mendiskusikan latar belakang sejarah dari krisis saat ini dan menjelaskan sikap negara-negara Eropa yang berusaha menyaring, menampung, dan merelokasi ratusan ribu keluarga yang putus asa. Garis besarnya: Guterres menghimbau perubahan sikap multilateral untuk dapat menerima dan menghargai -- untuk melawan propaganda anti-pengungsi dan mesin perekrutan kelompok seperti ISIS.
António Guterres - Designate Secretary-General of the United Nations
António Guterres is at the forefront of advocating for refugee rights around the world. Full bio
António Guterres is at the forefront of advocating for refugee rights around the world. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:12
Bruno Giussani: Commissioner,
thank you for coming to TED.
thank you for coming to TED.
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Bruno Giussani: Komisaris,
terima kasih telah hadir di TED.
terima kasih telah hadir di TED.
António Guterres: Sama-sama
00:15
António Guterres: Pleasure.
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BG: Mari mulai dengan angka.
00:16
BG: Let's start with a figure.
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00:18
During 2015, almost one million refugees
and migrants arrived in Europe
and migrants arrived in Europe
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Selama 2015, hampir satu juta pengungsi
dan migran datang ke Eropa
dan migran datang ke Eropa
00:22
from many different countries,
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dari berbagai negara,
00:23
of course, from Syria and Iraq,
but also from Afghanistan
but also from Afghanistan
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tak hanya Suriah dan Irak,
namun juga dari Afghanistan,
namun juga dari Afghanistan,
00:26
and Bangladesh and Eritrea and elsewhere.
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Bangladesh, Eritrea dan tempat lain.
00:28
And there have been reactions
of two different kinds:
of two different kinds:
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Reaksi yang muncul umumnya
terbagi dua macam:
terbagi dua macam:
00:31
welcoming parties and border fences.
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pesta selamat datang
dan memagari perbatasan.
dan memagari perbatasan.
00:35
But I want to look at it a little bit
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Namun saya ingin melihatnya lebih kepada
00:37
from the short-term
and the long-term perspective.
and the long-term perspective.
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perspektif jangka pendek
dan jangka panjang.
dan jangka panjang.
00:40
And the first question is very simple:
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Pertanyaan pertama sangat simpel:
00:43
Why has the movement of refugees
spiked so fast in the last six months?
spiked so fast in the last six months?
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Mengapa pergerakan pengungsi melonjak
begitu cepat dalam enam bulan terakhir?
begitu cepat dalam enam bulan terakhir?
00:48
AG: Well, I think, basically,
what triggered this huge increase
what triggered this huge increase
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AG: Pada dasarnya yang menyebabkan
peningkatan tajam ini
peningkatan tajam ini
00:51
was the Syrian refugee group.
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adalah kelompok pengungsi Suriah.
00:53
There has been an increased movement
into Europe from Africa, from Asia,
into Europe from Africa, from Asia,
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Peningkatan pergerakan dari Afrika dan
Asia ke Eropa telah lama terjadi,
Asia ke Eropa telah lama terjadi,
00:58
but slowly growing, and all of a sudden
we had this massive increase
we had this massive increase
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namun pertumbuhannya lamban,
lalu tiba-tiba terjadi peningkatan tajam
lalu tiba-tiba terjadi peningkatan tajam
01:01
in the first months of this year.
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di bulan-bulan pertama tahun ini.
01:04
Why? I think there are three reasons,
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Mengapa? Ada tiga alasan utama,
01:06
two long-term ones and the trigger.
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dua alasan jangka panjang dan
penggeraknya.
penggeraknya.
01:08
The long-term ones,
in relation to Syrians,
in relation to Syrians,
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Jangka panjangnya, berkaitan
dengan pengungsi Suriah,
dengan pengungsi Suriah,
01:10
is that hope is less and less
clear for people.
clear for people.
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ialah harapan semakin menipis
dan tidak pasti bagi mereka.
dan tidak pasti bagi mereka.
01:17
I mean, they look at their own country
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Mereka melihat negara mereka
01:19
and they don't see much hope
to go back home,
to go back home,
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dan mereka tidak melihat harapan
untuk bisa pulang,
untuk bisa pulang,
01:22
because there is no political solution,
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karena tidak ada solusi politik,
01:24
so there is no light
at the end of the tunnel.
at the end of the tunnel.
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maka tidak ada harapan di sana.
01:27
Second, the living conditions
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Kedua, kondisi hidup
01:29
of the Syrians in the neighboring
countries have been deteriorating.
countries have been deteriorating.
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pengungsi Suriah di negara tetangga
semakin memburuk.
semakin memburuk.
Kami baru saja meneliti dengan Bank Dunia,
01:32
We just had research with the World Bank,
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01:34
and 87 percent of the Syrians in Jordan
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dan 87% penduduk Suriah di Yordania
01:39
and 93 percent of the Syrians in Lebanon
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dan 93% di Lebanon
01:41
live below the national poverty lines.
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hidup di bawah garis kemiskinan nasional.
01:44
Only half of the children go to school,
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Hanya setengah anak-anak mereka
yang bersekolah,
yang bersekolah,
01:47
which means that people
are living very badly.
are living very badly.
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yang berarti hidup mereka sangat susah.
01:50
Not only are they refugees, out of home,
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Tidak hanya mengungsi, jauh dari rumah,
01:52
not only have they suffered
what they have suffered,
what they have suffered,
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tak hanya mereka hidup menderita,
namun mereka hidup dalam
kondisi yang sangat menyedihkan.
kondisi yang sangat menyedihkan.
01:55
but they are living in very,
very dramatic conditions.
very dramatic conditions.
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Pemicunya adalah ketika tiba-tiba,
01:57
And then the trigger
was when all of a sudden,
was when all of a sudden,
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02:00
international aid decreased.
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bantuan internasional menurun.
02:01
The World Food Programme was forced,
for lack of resources,
for lack of resources,
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Program Pangan Dunia (WFP),
karena kurang sumber daya,
karena kurang sumber daya,
02:04
to cut by 30 percent food support
to the Syrian refugees.
to the Syrian refugees.
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terpaksa memotong 30 persen bantuan pangan
untuk pengungsi Suriah.
untuk pengungsi Suriah.
02:07
They're not allowed to work,
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Mereka tidak boleh bekerja,
02:09
so they are totally dependent
on international support,
on international support,
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maka mereka sepenuhnya bergantung
pada bantuan internasional,
pada bantuan internasional,
02:12
and they felt, "The world
is abandoning us."
is abandoning us."
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dan mereka merasa,
"Dunia meninggalkan kita."
"Dunia meninggalkan kita."
Dan itu, menurut saya, pemicunya.
02:15
And that, in my opinion, was the trigger.
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Mendadak, ada rasa ketergesaan,
02:17
All of a sudden, there was a rush,
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dan orang mulai bergerak
dalam jumlah besar
dalam jumlah besar
02:18
and people started to move
in large numbers
in large numbers
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02:20
and, to be absolutely honest,
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dan kalau mau jujur,
02:22
if I had been in the same situation
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jika saya ada di situasi yang sama
02:24
and I would have been brave
enough to do it,
enough to do it,
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dan saya cukup berani melakukannya,
saya akan melakukan hal yang sama.
02:26
I think I would have done the same.
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BG: Namun saya rasa yang mengejutkan
banyak orang bukan karena ini tiba-tiba,
banyak orang bukan karena ini tiba-tiba,
02:28
BG: But I think what surprised
many people is it's not only sudden,
many people is it's not only sudden,
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tapi justru karena harusnya ini
tidak terjadi tiba-tiba.
tidak terjadi tiba-tiba.
02:32
but it wasn't supposed to be sudden.
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02:35
The war in Syria has been
happening for five years.
happening for five years.
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Perang di Suriah telah berlangsung
lima tahun.
lima tahun.
Jutaan pengungsi ada di kemah, desa,
dan kota di sekitar Suriah.
dan kota di sekitar Suriah.
02:37
Millions of refugees are in camps
and villages and towns around Syria.
and villages and towns around Syria.
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02:41
You have yourself warned
about the situation
about the situation
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Anda sendiri sudah memperingatkan akan
situasi ini
situasi ini
02:43
and about the consequences
of a breakdown of Libya, for example,
of a breakdown of Libya, for example,
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dan konsekuensi dari kejatuhan Libya,
misalnya,
misalnya,
02:46
and yet Europe looked totally unprepared.
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namun tetap saja sepertinya
Eropa sangat tidak siap.
Eropa sangat tidak siap.
02:50
AG: Well, unprepared because divided,
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AG: Yah, tidak siap karena tidak satu kata
02:53
and when you are divided,
you don't want to recognize the reality.
you don't want to recognize the reality.
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dan ketika Anda terbelah, Anda tak ingin
menghadapi realitas.
menghadapi realitas.
Anda lebih memilih menunda keputusan,
02:56
You prefer to postpone decisions,
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02:58
because you do not have
the capacity to make them.
the capacity to make them.
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karena tak punya kapasitas untuk
membuatnya.
membuatnya.
Buktinya adalah bahkan pada saat
lonjakan terjadi,
lonjakan terjadi,
03:00
And the proof is that even when
the spike occurred,
the spike occurred,
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03:04
Europe remained divided
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Eropa tetap masih terpecah
03:05
and was unable to put in place
a mechanism to manage the situation.
a mechanism to manage the situation.
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dan tidak mampu membuat suatu mekanisme
untuk mengelola situasi ini.
untuk mengelola situasi ini.
Anda bicara tentang satu juta orang.
03:11
You talk about one million people.
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03:12
It looks enormous,
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Kelihatannya besar,
03:14
but the population of the European Union
is 550 million people,
is 550 million people,
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tapi populasi Uni Eropa adalah
550 juta orang,
550 juta orang,
03:19
which means we are talking about one
per every 2,000 Europeans.
per every 2,000 Europeans.
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yang berarti kita bicara tentang
satu untuk setiap 2.000 penduduk Eropa.
satu untuk setiap 2.000 penduduk Eropa.
03:23
Now, in Lebanon, we have one refugee
per three Lebanese.
per three Lebanese.
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Kini, di Lebanon, ada satu pengungsi untuk
setiap tiga penduduk Lebanon.
setiap tiga penduduk Lebanon.
03:27
And Lebanon? Struggling,
of course, but it's managing.
of course, but it's managing.
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Dan Lebanon? Mereka kesusahan, tentu saja,
namun mereka berusaha mengelolanya.
namun mereka berusaha mengelolanya.
03:31
So, the question is: is this something
that could have been managed
that could have been managed
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Jadi pertanyaannya adalah: apakah ini
sesuatu yang sebenarnya bisa dikelola
sesuatu yang sebenarnya bisa dikelola
03:35
if -- not mentioning the most
important thing,
important thing,
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jika -- terlepas dari hal yang terpenting,
03:39
which would have been
addressing the root causes,
addressing the root causes,
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yaitu mengatasi akar permasalahannya,
namun mari kita lupakan hal itu sejenak,
03:41
but forgetting about root causes for now,
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03:43
looking at the phenomenon as it is --
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dan melihat fenomena ini saja --
03:45
if Europe were able to come
together in solidarity
together in solidarity
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jika Eropa bisa bersatu dalam solidaritas
03:49
to create an adequate
reception capacity of entry points?
reception capacity of entry points?
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untuk menciptakan kapasitas penerimaan
pengungsi yang memadai di titik masuk?
pengungsi yang memadai di titik masuk?
03:53
But for that, the countries at entry
points need to be massively supported,
points need to be massively supported,
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Tapi untuk itu, negara yang menjadi
titik masuk harus didukung sepenuhnya,
titik masuk harus didukung sepenuhnya,
03:58
and then screening the people
with security checks
with security checks
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lalu penyaringan pengungsi dengan
pemeriksaan keamanan
pemeriksaan keamanan
04:01
and all the other mechanisms,
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dan berbagai mekanisme lain,
04:02
distributing those that are coming
into all European countries,
into all European countries,
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mendistribusikan para pengungsi
ke seluruh negara Eropa,
ke seluruh negara Eropa,
sesuai dengan kemampuan setiap negara.
04:06
according to the possibilities
of each country.
of each country.
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04:08
I mean, if you look at
the relocation program
the relocation program
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Jika Anda mempelajari program pemindahan
04:10
that was approved by the Commission,
always too little too late,
always too little too late,
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yang disetujui UNHCR,
selalu sedikit terlambat,
selalu sedikit terlambat,
atau oleh Dewan Uni Eropa, juga terlambat.
04:14
or by the Council, too little too late --
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04:16
BG: It's already breaking down.
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BG: Programnya sudah gagal.
AG: Negara saya seharusnya
menerima empat ribu.
menerima empat ribu.
04:17
AG: My country is supposed
to receive four thousand.
to receive four thousand.
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Empat ribu di Portugal bukan apa-apa.
04:20
Four thousand in Portugal means nothing.
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04:22
So this is perfectly manageable
if it is managed,
if it is managed,
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Jadi, fenomena ini sangat bisa dikelola,
seandainya dikelola,
seandainya dikelola,
04:25
but in the present circumstances,
the pressure is at the point of entry,
the pressure is at the point of entry,
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namun dengan situasi sekarang,
tekanan ada di titik masuk,
tekanan ada di titik masuk,
04:29
and then, as people move
in this chaotic way through the Balkans,
in this chaotic way through the Balkans,
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lalu pengungsi bergerak secara semrawut
melalui negara-negara Balkan,
melalui negara-negara Balkan,
04:32
then they come to Germany,
Sweden, basically, and Austria.
Sweden, basically, and Austria.
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lalu sampai di Jerman, Swedia,
umumnya, dan Austria.
umumnya, dan Austria.
04:36
They are the three countries that are,
in the end, receiving the refugees.
in the end, receiving the refugees.
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Inilah tiga negara yang ujung-ujungnya
menerima para pengungsi.
menerima para pengungsi.
Negara Eropa lain hanya menonton
tanpa melakukan apa-apa.
tanpa melakukan apa-apa.
04:39
The rest of Europe is looking
without doing much.
without doing much.
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04:42
BG: Let me try to bring up
three questions,
three questions,
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BG: Saya ingin menanyakan tiga hal,
04:44
playing a bit devil's advocate.
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dari sudut pandang oposisi.
04:46
I'll try to ask them, make them blunt.
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Saya akan coba bertanya
segamblang mungkin.
segamblang mungkin.
04:49
But I think the questions are very present
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Tapi menurut saya ini pertanyaan
yang sering muncul
yang sering muncul
04:51
in the minds of many people
in Europe right now,
in Europe right now,
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di benak banyak orang di Eropa saat ini.
04:53
The first, of course, is about numbers.
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Pertama, tentunya, tentang angka.
04:55
You say 550 million versus one million
is not much, but realistically,
is not much, but realistically,
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Anda bilang 550 juta dibanding 1 juta
tidaklah banyak, namun secara realistis,
tidaklah banyak, namun secara realistis,
berapa banyak yang sanggup diterima Eropa?
05:00
how many people can Europe take?
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05:02
AG: Well, that is a question
that has no answer,
that has no answer,
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AG: Pertanyaan itu tidak ada jawabannya,
05:05
because refugees have
the right to be protected.
the right to be protected.
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karena pengungsi punya
hak untuk dilindungi.
hak untuk dilindungi.
05:09
And there is such a thing
as international law,
as international law,
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Dan ada yang namanya hukum internasional,
05:13
so there is no way you can say,
"I take 10,000 and that's finished."
"I take 10,000 and that's finished."
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jadi Anda tidak bisa bilang,
"Saya ambil 10.000 saja, titik."
"Saya ambil 10.000 saja, titik."
05:17
I remind you of one thing:
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Saya ingatkan tentang satu hal:
05:19
in Turkey, at the beginning of the crisis,
I remember one minister saying,
I remember one minister saying,
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di Turki, pada permulaan krisis,
saya ingat satu menteri berkata,
saya ingat satu menteri berkata,
05:23
"Turkey will be able to receive
up to 100,000 people."
up to 100,000 people."
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"Turki akan bisa menampung
hingga 100.000 orang."
hingga 100.000 orang."
05:26
Turkey has now two million
three-hundred thousand
three-hundred thousand
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Turki sekarang punya
dua juta tiga ratus ribu,
dua juta tiga ratus ribu,
05:29
or something of the sort,
if you count all refugees.
if you count all refugees.
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kira-kira segitu, jika Anda
hitung semua pengungsi.
hitung semua pengungsi.
05:32
So I don't think it's fair to say
how many we can take.
how many we can take.
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Saya pikir tidak adil untuk mengatakan
berapa banyak yang bisa kita terima.
berapa banyak yang bisa kita terima.
05:36
What it is fair to say is:
how we can we organize ourselves
how we can we organize ourselves
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Yang adil adalah mengatakan
bagaimana kita bisa mengelola negara kita
bagaimana kita bisa mengelola negara kita
05:39
to assume our international
responsibilities?
responsibilities?
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untuk memenuhi tanggung jawab
internasional kita?
internasional kita?
05:42
And Europe has not been able to do so,
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Eropa belum bisa melakukannya,
05:45
because basically, Europe is divided
because there is no solidarity
because there is no solidarity
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karena pada dasarnya, Eropa terpecah
karena tidak adanya solidaritas
karena tidak adanya solidaritas
05:48
in the European project.
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dalam proyek Uni Eropa.
05:49
And it's not only about refugees;
there are many other areas.
there are many other areas.
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Tidak hanya dalam masalah pengungsi;
tapi juga dalam hal lain.
tapi juga dalam hal lain.
05:53
And let's be honest, this is the moment
in which we need more Europe
in which we need more Europe
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Mari kita jujur, ini adalah momen ketika
kita memerlukan persatuan Eropa
kita memerlukan persatuan Eropa
05:56
instead of less Europe.
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dibandingkan perpecahan.
05:58
But as the public less and less believes
in European institutions,
in European institutions,
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Tapi seiring dengan berkurangnya
kepercayaan publik terhadap
kepercayaan publik terhadap
institusi Uni Eropa,
06:02
it is also each time more difficult
to convince the public
to convince the public
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akan semakin sulit untuk meyakinkan
mereka bahwa
mereka bahwa
kita perlu persatuan Eropa
untuk menyelesaikan hal ini.
untuk menyelesaikan hal ini.
06:06
that we need more Europe
to solve these problems.
to solve these problems.
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06:08
BG: We seem to be at the point
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BG: Sepertinya kita di titik
06:10
where the numbers turn into political
shifts, particularly domestically.
shifts, particularly domestically.
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di mana jumlah pengungsi menjadi
pergolakan politik di dalam negeri.
pergolakan politik di dalam negeri.
Kita menyaksikannya lagi di Prancis,
06:13
We saw it again this weekend in France,
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namun juga berkali-kali di banyak negara:
06:15
but we have seen it over
and over in many countries:
and over in many countries:
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di Polandia, Denmark, Swiss,
dan tempat lain,
dan tempat lain,
06:17
in Poland and in Denmark
and in Switzerland and elsewhere,
and in Switzerland and elsewhere,
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di mana perasaan masyarakat berubah
drastis karena jumlah pengungsi,
drastis karena jumlah pengungsi,
06:20
where the mood changes radically
because of the numbers,
because of the numbers,
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06:24
although they are not very significant
in absolute numbers.
in absolute numbers.
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walau jumlahnya tidak signifikan dibanding
seluruh masyarakat Eropa.
seluruh masyarakat Eropa.
06:30
The Prime Minister of --
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Perdana menteri di --
06:32
AG: But, if I may, on these:
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AG: Tapi, kalau saya boleh menyela:
06:34
I mean, what does a European see at home
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Apa yang dilihat masyarakat Eropa
06:37
in a village where there are no migrants?
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di desa mereka yang tidak ada migran?
06:40
What a European sees is, on television,
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Yang mereka lihat, di televisi,
06:44
every single day, a few months ago,
opening the news every single day,
opening the news every single day,
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setiap hari beberapa bulan yang lalu,
berita televisi dimulai dengan
berita televisi dimulai dengan
segerombolan orang yang berdatangan,
tak terkontrol,
tak terkontrol,
06:49
a crowd coming, uncontrolled,
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06:51
moving from border to border,
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bergerak di antara perbatasan,
06:53
and the images on television
were of hundreds
were of hundreds
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dan televisi menayangkan ratusan
atau ribuan orang yang berpindah.
atau ribuan orang yang berpindah.
06:55
or thousands of people moving.
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06:57
And the idea is that nobody
is taking care of it --
is taking care of it --
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Mereka berpikir tidak ada yang menangani
masalah ini --
masalah ini --
07:00
this is happening without any
kind of management.
kind of management.
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ini semua terjadi tanpa pengelolaan.
07:04
And so their idea was,
"They are coming to my village."
"They are coming to my village."
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Maka mereka berpikir,
"Orang-orang ini akan datang ke desaku."
"Orang-orang ini akan datang ke desaku."
07:06
So there was this completely false idea
that Europe was being invaded
that Europe was being invaded
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Jadi ada pemikiran yang sangat salah
bahwa Eropa sedang diinvasi
bahwa Eropa sedang diinvasi
07:10
and our way of life is going to change,
and everything will --
and everything will --
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dan cara hidup kita akan berubah,
segalanya akan berubah --
segalanya akan berubah --
07:14
And the problem is that if this
had been properly managed,
had been properly managed,
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3865
Intinya adalah,
apabila arus ini dikelola dengan baik,
apabila arus ini dikelola dengan baik,
kalau pengungsi diterima dengan
[prosedur yang] benar,
[prosedur yang] benar,
07:18
if people had been properly received,
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07:20
welcomed, sheltered at point of entry,
screened at point of entry,
screened at point of entry,
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4715
dengan tangan terbuka, dinaungi
di titik masuk, diperiksa di sana,
di titik masuk, diperiksa di sana,
07:25
and the moved by plane
to different European countries,
to different European countries,
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dan didistribusikan ke
negara-negara Eropa lainnya,
negara-negara Eropa lainnya,
07:27
this would not have scared people.
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ini tidak akan menimbulkan ketakutan.
07:30
But, unfortunately, we have
a lot of people scared,
a lot of people scared,
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Sayangnya, ada banyak orang yang takut,
07:32
just because Europe was not able
to do the job properly.
to do the job properly.
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hanya karena Eropa tidak becus
menanganinya.
menanganinya.
07:35
BG: But there are villages in Germany
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1992
BG: Namun ada desa di Jerman
07:37
with 300 inhabitants and 1,000 refugees.
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3336
dengan 300 penduduk dan 1.000 pengungsi.
07:41
So, what's your position?
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Bagaimana menurut Anda?
07:43
How do you imagine these people reacting?
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1967
Menurut Anda bagaimana reaksi mereka?
07:45
AG: If there would be a proper
management of the situation
management of the situation
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2873
AG: Kalau ada penanganan situasi yang baik
07:48
and the proper distribution
of people all over Europe,
of people all over Europe,
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dan distribusi pengungsi yang
merata ke seluruh Eropa,
merata ke seluruh Eropa,
07:51
you would always have
the percentage that I mentioned:
the percentage that I mentioned:
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akan diperoleh rasio yang saya sebutkan:
07:54
one per each 2,000.
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1802
satu pengungsi setiap 2.000 orang.
07:56
It is because things are not
properly managed
properly managed
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2269
Karena situasi ini tidak dikelola
dengan baik,
dengan baik,
07:58
that in the end we have situations
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1760
maka akhirnya situasinya menjadi
08:00
that are totally impossible to live with,
and of course if you have a village --
and of course if you have a village --
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6417
sangat buruk, dan tentu di desa Anda --
08:06
in Lebanon, there are many villages
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1677
Di Lebanon, banyak desa yang punya
lebih banyak orang Suriah daripada orang
lokal dan mereka menerimanya.
lokal dan mereka menerimanya.
08:08
that have more Syrians than Lebanese;
Lebanon has been living with that.
Lebanon has been living with that.
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3408
Saya tidak meminta hal yang sama di Eropa,
08:11
I'm not asking for the same
to happen in Europe,
to happen in Europe,
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2267
untuk semua desa punya lebih banyak
pengungsi daripada orang lokal.
pengungsi daripada orang lokal.
08:14
for all European villages to have
more refugees than inhabitants.
more refugees than inhabitants.
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3187
08:17
What I am asking is for Europe
to do the job properly,
to do the job properly,
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3055
Yang saya minta adalah agar Eropa
menanganinya dengan baik,
menanganinya dengan baik,
08:20
and to be able to organize itself
to receive people
to receive people
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dan mampu mengatur dirinya sendiri
untuk menerima pengungsi
untuk menerima pengungsi
08:23
as other countries in the world
were forced to do in the past.
were forced to do in the past.
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sebagaimana negara di dunia dipaksa
melakukannya sebelumnya.
melakukannya sebelumnya.
08:26
BG: So, if you look at the global
situation not only at Europe --
situation not only at Europe --
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BG: Jadi jika Anda lihat situasi global
di luar Eropa --
di luar Eropa --
BG: Ya!
08:29
(Applause)
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(Tepuk tangan)
08:31
BG: Yes!
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08:32
(Applause)
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4634
08:36
BG: If you look at the global situation,
so, not only at Europe,
so, not only at Europe,
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3021
BG: Jika Anda lihat situasi global,
tidak hanya di Eropa,
tidak hanya di Eropa,
08:39
I know you can make
a long list of countries
a long list of countries
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akan ada daftar panjang negara-negara
08:42
that are not really stepping up,
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yang tidak ikut membantu,
08:45
but I'm more interested
in the other part --
in the other part --
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namun saya lebih tertarik
pada bagian yang lain --
pada bagian yang lain --
08:47
is there somebody
who's doing the right thing?
who's doing the right thing?
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2190
apakah ada yang melakukan hal yang benar?
08:50
AG: Well, 86 percent
of the refugees in the world
of the refugees in the world
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AG: 86% pengungsi di dunia
08:52
are in the developing world.
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2055
ada di negara berkembang.
08:54
And if you look at
countries like Ethiopia --
countries like Ethiopia --
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3320
Jika Anda lihat negara seperti Ethiopia --
08:58
Ethiopia has received
more than 600,000 refugees.
more than 600,000 refugees.
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3777
Ethiopia menerima lebih dari
600.000 pengungsi.
600.000 pengungsi.
09:02
All the borders in Ethiopia are open.
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2016
Semua perbatasan di Ethiopia terbuka.
09:05
And they have, as a policy,
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1868
Dan mereka punya kebijakan
09:07
they call the "people to people" policy
that every refugee should be received.
that every refugee should be received.
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4096
yang disebut "manusia ke manusia" yaitu
bahwa setiap pengungsi harus diterima.
bahwa setiap pengungsi harus diterima.
09:11
And they have South Sudanese,
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1579
Mereka punya pengungsi dari Sudan Selatan,
Sudan, Somalia.
Sudan, Somalia.
09:12
they have Sudanese, they have Somalis.
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2008
09:14
They have all the neighbors.
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1857
Mereka menerima semua negara tetangga.
09:16
They have Eritreans.
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1764
Ada dari Eritrea.
09:18
And, in general,
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1295
Dan pada umumnya,
09:20
African countries are extremely
welcoming of refugees coming,
welcoming of refugees coming,
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4180
negara-negara Afrika sangat terbuka
menerima pengungsi yang datang,
menerima pengungsi yang datang,
09:24
and I would say that in the Middle East
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dan saya rasa di Timur Tengah dan di Asia,
09:27
and in Asia, we have seen a tendency
for borders to be open.
for borders to be open.
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5193
kita sudah melihat perbatasan mereka
cenderung terbuka.
cenderung terbuka.
09:32
Now we see some problems
with the Syrian situation,
with the Syrian situation,
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3365
Sekarang kita melihat beberapa masalah
dengan situasi Suriah,
dengan situasi Suriah,
09:35
as the Syrian situation evolved
into also a major security crisis,
into also a major security crisis,
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4257
yang berkembang menjadi
krisis keamanan yang serius,
krisis keamanan yang serius,
09:39
but the truth is that for a large period,
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2093
namun sebenarnya sejak lama
09:42
all borders in the Middle East were open.
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570052
1992
semua perbatasan di Timur Tengah terbuka.
09:44
The truth is that for Afghans,
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1452
Bagi penduduk Afghanistan,
09:45
the borders of Pakistan and Iran
were open for, at the time,
were open for, at the time,
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2833
perbatasan Pakistan dan Iran terbuka,
dan ketika itu
dan ketika itu
09:48
six million Afghans that came.
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1893
enam juta warga Afghanistan berpindah.
09:50
So I would say that even today,
the trend in the developing world
the trend in the developing world
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3821
Jadi saya bisa bilang bahkan sekarang,
tren di negara berkembang
tren di negara berkembang
09:54
has been for borders to be open.
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2326
adalah untuk membuka perbatasan.
09:56
The trend in the developed world
is for these questions to become
is for these questions to become
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4412
Di negara maju, pertanyaan
yang ada cenderung
yang ada cenderung
10:00
more and more complex,
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2106
menajdi lebih kompleks,
10:03
especially when there is,
in the public opinion,
in the public opinion,
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2571
terutama jika dalam opini publik,
10:05
a mixture of discussions between refugee
protections on one side
protections on one side
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5083
ada beragam diskusi antara
perlindungan pengungsi di satu sisi
perlindungan pengungsi di satu sisi
dan masalah keamanan di sisi lain --
yang menurut saya disalahartikan.
yang menurut saya disalahartikan.
10:10
and security questions -- in my opinion,
misinterpreted -- on the other side.
misinterpreted -- on the other side.
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3639
BG: Kita bicarakan itu nanti,
10:14
BG: We'll come back to that too,
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602444
1541
tadi Anda menyebutkan tentang
pemotongan dana dan bantuan
pemotongan dana dan bantuan
10:16
but you mentioned the cutting
of funding and the vouchers
of funding and the vouchers
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2740
dari Program Pangan Dunia.
10:18
from the World Food Programme.
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1460
Itu artinya ada kekurangan pendanaan
10:20
That reflects the general underfunding
of the organizations
of the organizations
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2833
pada organisasi yang menangani
masalah ini.
masalah ini.
10:23
working on these issues.
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2316
10:26
Now that the world seems to have woken up,
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2555
Melihat bahwa dunia sudah
menyadari tentang ini,
menyadari tentang ini,
10:28
are you getting more funding
and more support,
and more support,
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2191
apakah Anda menerima lebih banyak
bantuan
bantuan
10:30
or it's still the same?
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1413
atau sama saja?
10:32
AG: We are getting more support.
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1799
AG: Kami menerima lebih banyak dukungan.
10:34
I would say that we are coming
close to the levels of last year.
close to the levels of last year.
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4433
Jumlahnya hampir sama dengan
yang diterima tahun lalu.
yang diterima tahun lalu.
10:39
We were much worse during the summer.
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2349
Kami menerima lebih sedikit
sepanjang musim panas.
sepanjang musim panas.
10:41
But that is clearly insufficient
to address the needs of the people
to address the needs of the people
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3858
Namun tentu itu tidak cukup untuk
menangani kebutuhan pengungsi
menangani kebutuhan pengungsi
10:45
and address the needs of the countries
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1890
dan kebutuhan negara-negara
10:47
that are supporting the people.
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1499
yang membantu para pengungsi.
10:49
And here we have a basic review
of the criteria, the objectives,
of the criteria, the objectives,
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5926
Kami juga punya ulasan dasar
atas kriteria, tujuan,
atas kriteria, tujuan,
10:55
the priorities of development
cooperation that is required.
cooperation that is required.
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2792
dan prioritas kerja sama
pembangunan yang dibutuhkan.
pembangunan yang dibutuhkan.
10:57
For instance, Lebanon and Jordan
are middle-income countries.
are middle-income countries.
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3003
Misalnya, Lebanon dan Yordania
adalah negara ekonomi menengah.
adalah negara ekonomi menengah.
11:00
Because they are middle-income countries,
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648911
1974
Karenanya,
mereka tak bisa menerima pinjaman lunak
atau hibah dari Bank Dunia.
atau hibah dari Bank Dunia.
11:02
they cannot receive soft loans
or grants from the World Bank.
or grants from the World Bank.
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2911
Namun ini tidak masuk akal,
11:05
Now, today this doesn't make any sense,
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653844
2199
11:08
because they are providing
a global public good.
a global public good.
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2329
karena mereka membantu
menangani masalah global.
menangani masalah global.
11:10
They have millions of refugees there,
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1810
Ada jutaan pengungsi di sana,
11:12
and to be honest, they are pillars
of stability in the region,
of stability in the region,
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3490
dan faktanya, mereka adalah
tonggak kestabilan di wilayah tersebut,
tonggak kestabilan di wilayah tersebut,
11:15
with all the difficulties they face,
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1738
dengan segala kesulitan yang ada,
11:17
and the first line of defense
of our collective security.
of our collective security.
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2690
dan mereka adalah garis depan pertahanan
kita bersama.
kita bersama.
Jadi tidak masuk akal
11:20
So it doesn't make sense
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1163
kalau mereka bukan prioritas utama dalam
11:21
that these countries
are not a first priority
are not a first priority
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2143
kebijakan kerja sama pembangunan.
11:23
in development cooperation policies.
236
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1745
Tapi begitulah adanya.
11:25
And they are not.
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1159
11:26
And not only do the refugees live
in very dramatic circumstances
in very dramatic circumstances
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3402
Tidak saja pengungsi hidup dalam
kondisi yang sangat menyedihkan
kondisi yang sangat menyedihkan
11:29
inside those countries,
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1230
di negara-negara itu,
11:31
but the local communities
themselves are suffering,
themselves are suffering,
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2826
namun komunitas lokal mereka
juga terkena dampaknya,
juga terkena dampaknya,
11:34
because salaries went down,
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2256
karena upah menurun,
karena banyak pengangguran,
11:37
because there are more unemployed,
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1647
karena harga dan sewa meningkat.
11:39
because prices and rents went up.
243
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2400
11:42
And, of course, if you look
at today's situation
at today's situation
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690238
3944
Tentu saja jika Anda melihat
situasi saat ini
situasi saat ini
11:46
of the indicators in these countries,
245
694206
3098
dari indikator di negara-negara ini,
11:49
it is clear that, especially
their poor groups of the population,
their poor groups of the population,
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697328
5483
sangat jelas bahwa, terutama pada
penduduk miskin di negara mereka,
penduduk miskin di negara mereka,
11:54
are living worse and worse
because of the crisis they are facing.
because of the crisis they are facing.
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702835
3235
kehidupan mereka semakin buruk karena
krisis yang mereka hadapi.
krisis yang mereka hadapi.
11:58
BG: Who should be providing this support?
248
706094
1984
BG: Siapa yang harusnya memberi bantuan?
12:00
Country by country, international
organizations, the European Union?
organizations, the European Union?
249
708102
3321
Masing-masing negara, organisasi
internasional, atau Uni Eropa?
internasional, atau Uni Eropa?
12:03
Who should be coming up with this support?
250
711447
2048
Siapa yang seharusnya memberi bantuan?
12:05
AG: We need to join all efforts.
251
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1545
AG: Kita harus bekerja sama.
12:07
It's clear that bilateral
cooperation is essential.
cooperation is essential.
252
715088
2545
Jelas bahwa kerja sama bilateral
itu penting.
itu penting.
Jelas bahwa kerja sama multilateral
juga penting.
juga penting.
12:09
It's clear that multilateral
cooperation is essential.
cooperation is essential.
253
717657
2763
12:12
It's clear that international financial
institutions should have flexibility
institutions should have flexibility
254
720444
3595
Jelas bahwa institusi keuangan
international harus bisa fleksibel
international harus bisa fleksibel
12:16
in order to be able to invest
more massively
more massively
255
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2719
untuk bisa berinvestasi lebih besar
12:18
in support to these countries.
256
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1526
demi membantu negara-negara ini.
12:20
We need to combine all the instruments
and to understand that today,
and to understand that today,
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3246
Kita perlu menggabungkan semua
instrumen yang ada dan memahami bahwa
instrumen yang ada dan memahami bahwa
12:23
in protracted situations,
at a certain moment,
at a certain moment,
258
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2446
dalam situasi berlarut-larut sekarang ini,
ada waktu dimana
ada waktu dimana
12:26
that it doesn't make sense anymore
to make a distinction
to make a distinction
259
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2670
tidak lagi masuk akal untuk membedakan
12:28
between humanitarian aid
and development aid
and development aid
260
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3649
antara bantuan kemanusiaan
dan bantuan pembangunan
dan bantuan pembangunan
12:32
or development processes.
261
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2349
atau proses permbangunan.
12:34
Because you are talking
about children in school,
about children in school,
262
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3603
Kita bicara tentang anak-anak di sekolah,
12:38
you are talking about health,
263
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1409
tentang kesehatan,
12:39
you are talking about infrastructure
that is overcrowded.
that is overcrowded.
264
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2832
tentang infrastruktur yang
tidak mencukupi.
tidak mencukupi.
12:42
You are talking about things
that require a long-term perspective,
that require a long-term perspective,
265
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3569
Kita bicara tentang hal-hal yang
memerlukan perspektif jangka panjang,
memerlukan perspektif jangka panjang,
12:46
a development perspective
266
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1333
perspektif pembangunan
12:47
and not only an emergency
humanitarian aid perspective.
humanitarian aid perspective.
267
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3036
dan tidak hanya perspektif
bantuan darurat kemanusiaan.
bantuan darurat kemanusiaan.
12:51
BG: I would like your comment on something
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2024
BG: Bagaimana komentar Anda
tentang berita pagi ini.
12:53
that was in newspapers this morning.
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Tentang pernyataan yang
dibuat oleh calon terdepan
dibuat oleh calon terdepan
12:54
It is a statement made
by the current front-runner
by the current front-runner
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13:00
for the Republican nomination
for US President, Donald Trump.
for US President, Donald Trump.
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nominasi Partai Republik untuk
Presiden AS, Donald Trump.
Presiden AS, Donald Trump.
13:03
Yesterday, he said this.
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Kemarin, ia mengatakan ini.
13:05
(Laughter)
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(Tertawa)
13:06
No, listen to this. It's interesting.
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Coba Anda dengarkan. Ini menarik.
Saya mengutip: "Saya menghimbau
penutupan total menyeluruh
penutupan total menyeluruh
13:07
I quote: "I am calling for a total
and complete shutdown
and complete shutdown
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13:10
of Muslims entering the US,
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terhadap muslim yang memasuki AS,
13:12
until our country's representatives
can figure out what's going on."
can figure out what's going on."
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sampai para pemimpin negara kita
memahami situasinya."
memahami situasinya."
13:17
How do you react to that?
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1359
Apa reaksi Anda?
13:18
AG: Well, it's not only Donald Trump.
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2084
AG: Tidak hanya Donald Trump saja.
13:20
We have seen several people
around the world
around the world
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Ada beberapa orang di seluruh dunia
yang memiliki tanggung jawab politik
yang mengatakan, misalnya,
yang mengatakan, misalnya,
13:23
with political responsibility
saying, for instance,
saying, for instance,
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13:25
that Muslims refugees
should not be received.
should not be received.
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bahwa pengungsi muslim
tidak bisa diterima.
tidak bisa diterima.
13:28
And the reason why they say this
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Dan mengapa mereka mengatakan ini,
13:31
is because they think
that by doing or saying this,
that by doing or saying this,
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adalah karena mereka pikir dengan
melakukan atau mengatakan ini,
melakukan atau mengatakan ini,
13:34
they are protecting
the security of their countries.
the security of their countries.
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mereka melindungi keamanan negara mereka.
13:37
Now, I've been in government.
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Saya pernah di pemerintahan.
13:38
I am very keen on the need for governments
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Saya sangat mendukung kebutuhan pemerintah
13:41
to protect the security of their countries
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untuk melindungi keamanan negara mereka
13:43
and their people.
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1151
dan warga negaranya.
13:44
But if you say, like that,
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Namun jika Anda bicara seperti itu
13:47
in the US or in any European country,
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2506
di AS atau negara Eropa manapun,
13:50
"We are going to close our doors
to Muslim refugees,"
to Muslim refugees,"
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3946
"Kami akan menutup pintu
bagi pengungsi muslim,"
bagi pengungsi muslim,"
13:54
what you are saying
is the best possible help
is the best possible help
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yang Anda katakan justru sangat membantu
13:57
for the propaganda
of terrorist organizations.
of terrorist organizations.
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propaganda organisasi teroris.
14:00
Because what you are saying --
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1612
Karena apa yang Anda katakan --
14:01
(Applause)
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5575
(Tepuk tangan)
14:07
What you are saying will be heard
by all the Muslims in your own country,
by all the Muslims in your own country,
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5583
Apa yang Anda katakan akan didengar
oleh semua muslim di negara Anda,
oleh semua muslim di negara Anda,
14:12
and it will pave the way
for the recruitment
for the recruitment
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dan akan mendukung upaya perekrutan
dan mekanisme
dan mekanisme
14:15
and the mechanisms that,
through technology,
through technology,
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2621
yang digunakan oleh kelompok seperti
Daesh, al-Nusra, al-Qaeda, dan lainnya
Daesh, al-Nusra, al-Qaeda, dan lainnya
14:17
Daesh and al-Nusra, al-Qaeda,
and all those other groups
and all those other groups
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3855
yang menyusupi komunitas kita
lewat teknologi.
lewat teknologi.
14:21
are today penetrating in our societies.
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849609
2398
14:24
And it's just telling them,
"You are right, we are against you."
"You are right, we are against you."
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852031
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Seolah-olah mengatakan,
"Memang benar, kami menolak kalian."
"Memang benar, kami menolak kalian."
14:28
So obviously, this is creating
in societies that are all multiethnic,
in societies that are all multiethnic,
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6390
Jadi sudah jelas,
di dalam masyarakat yang multi etnis,
di dalam masyarakat yang multi etnis,
14:34
multi-religious, multicultural,
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1749
multi agama, multi budaya,
14:36
this is creating a situation
in which, really,
in which, really,
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3372
ini menciptakan kondisi yang benar-benar
14:39
it is much easier for the propaganda
of these terrorist organizations
of these terrorist organizations
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3390
sangat memudahkan propaganda
organisasi teroris
organisasi teroris
14:43
to be effective in recruiting
people for terror acts
people for terror acts
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871173
5113
untuk lebih efektif merekrut
orang untuk melakukan aksi teror
orang untuk melakukan aksi teror
14:48
within the countries where these kinds
of sentences are expressed.
of sentences are expressed.
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876310
3914
di negara yang membuat pernyataan
seperti ini.
seperti ini.
14:52
BG: Have the recent attacks in Paris
and the reactions to them
and the reactions to them
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2983
BG: Apakah serangan baru-baru ini di Paris
dan reaksi yang muncul
dan reaksi yang muncul
14:55
made your job more difficult?
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883255
1983
mempersulit pekerjaan Anda?
14:57
AG: Undoubtedly.
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1359
AG: Tentu saja.
14:58
BG: In what sense?
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1461
BG: Bisa Anda jelaskan?
15:00
AG: In the sense that, I mean,
for many people the first reaction
for many people the first reaction
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4316
AG: Reaksi pertama orang-orang
15:05
in relation to these kinds of terrorist
attacks is: close all borders --
attacks is: close all borders --
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893332
3420
terhadap serangan teroris semacam ini
adalah: tutup semua perbatasan --
adalah: tutup semua perbatasan --
15:08
not understanding that the terrorist
problem in Europe is largely homegrown.
problem in Europe is largely homegrown.
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4445
tanpa memahami bahwa masalah terorisme
di Eropa, mayoritas berasal dari dalam.
di Eropa, mayoritas berasal dari dalam.
15:13
We have thousands and thousands
of European fighters in Syria and in Iraq,
of European fighters in Syria and in Iraq,
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901245
4973
Ada ribuan tentara Eropa
di Suriah dan Irak,
di Suriah dan Irak,
15:18
so this is not something that you solve
by just not allowing Syrians to come in.
by just not allowing Syrians to come in.
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906242
4230
jadi solusinya bukan dengan menutup
perbatasan bagi pengungsi Suriah.
perbatasan bagi pengungsi Suriah.
15:22
And I must say, I am convinced
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910496
2456
Saya harus bilang bahwa saya yakin
15:24
that the passport that appeared,
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912976
4172
bahwa paspor yang ditemukan di TKP,
15:29
I believe, was put
by the person who has blown --
by the person who has blown --
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917172
3747
saya yakin sengaja ditinggalkan
oleh pengebom --
oleh pengebom --
15:32
BG: -- himself up, yeah.
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920943
1531
BG: -- orang yang melakukan
bom bunuh diri.
bom bunuh diri.
15:34
AG: [I believe] it was on purpose,
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922498
1911
AG: Itu disengaja,
15:36
because part of the strategies
of Daesh is against refugees,
of Daesh is against refugees,
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924433
3618
karena bagian strategi Daesh adalah
melawan pengungsi,
melawan pengungsi,
15:40
because they see refugees as people
that should be with the caliphate
that should be with the caliphate
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3413
karena mereka menganggap pengungsi
seharusnya mendukung khalifah mereka,
seharusnya mendukung khalifah mereka,
15:43
and are fleeing to the crusaders.
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931512
2452
tapi malah melarikan diri ke
negara Kristen.
negara Kristen.
15:45
And I think that is part of Daesh's
strategy to make Europe react,
strategy to make Europe react,
326
933988
4063
Menurut saya ini bagian strategi Daesh
untuk membuat Eropa bereaksi
untuk membuat Eropa bereaksi
15:50
closing its doors to Muslim refugees
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938075
2391
dengan menutup pintu
bagi pengungsi muslim
bagi pengungsi muslim
15:52
and having an hostility
towards Muslims inside Europe,
towards Muslims inside Europe,
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940490
3691
dan mengambil sikap bermusuhan
terhadap umat muslim di Eropa,
terhadap umat muslim di Eropa,
15:56
exactly to facilitate Daesh's work.
329
944205
3522
untuk memfasilitasi tujuan Daesh.
15:59
And my deep belief is that
it was not the refugee movement
it was not the refugee movement
330
947751
4508
Saya sangat percaya bahwa
bukan pergerakan pengungsi
bukan pergerakan pengungsi
16:04
that triggered terrorism.
331
952283
1681
yang memicu terorisme.
16:05
I think, as I said,
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953988
1160
Seperti yang saya bilang,
16:07
essentially terrorism in Europe
is today a homegrown movement
is today a homegrown movement
333
955172
3527
pada dasarnya terorisme di Eropa
sekarang muncul dari dalam
sekarang muncul dari dalam
16:10
in relation to the global situation
that we are facing,
that we are facing,
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958723
3295
sebagai reaksi atas situasi global
saat ini,
saat ini,
16:14
and what we need is exactly
to prove these groups wrong,
to prove these groups wrong,
335
962042
4420
dan yang kita perlukan adalah untuk
membuktikan bahwa mereka salah,
membuktikan bahwa mereka salah,
16:18
by welcoming and integrating effectively
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966486
3473
dengan menerima dan mengintegrasikan
secara efektif
secara efektif
para pengungsi yang datang dari
belahan dunia tersebut.
belahan dunia tersebut.
16:21
those that are coming
from that part of the world.
from that part of the world.
337
969983
2403
16:24
And another thing that I believe
is that to a large extent,
is that to a large extent,
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972410
3016
Dan satu lagi, saya yakin bahwa
sebagian besar dari
sebagian besar dari
16:27
what we are today paying for in Europe
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975450
2463
apa yang kita tebus di Eropa saat ini
16:29
is the failures of integration models
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977937
2170
adalah kegagalan model integrasi
16:32
that didn't work in the '60s,
in the '70s, in the '80s,
in the '70s, in the '80s,
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980131
3141
yang tidak berhasil di tahun 60-an,
70-an, dan 80-an,
70-an, dan 80-an,
16:35
in relation to big migration flows
that took place at that time
that took place at that time
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983296
2971
ketika terjadi arus besar migrasi ke Eropa
16:38
and generated what is today
in many of the people, for instance,
in many of the people, for instance,
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986291
3789
yang menciptakan masyarakat
generasi kedua saat ini
generasi kedua saat ini
16:42
of the second generation of communities,
344
990104
2743
16:44
a situation of feeling marginalized,
345
992871
4131
yang berada dalam situasi
dimana mereka merasa terpinggirkan,
dimana mereka merasa terpinggirkan,
tanpa pekerjaan,
16:49
having no jobs,
346
997026
1390
16:50
having improper education,
347
998440
1539
dengan pendidikan seadanya,
16:52
living in some of the neighborhoods
that are not adequately provided
that are not adequately provided
348
1000003
5225
tinggal di lingkungan tanpa
insfrastruktur publik yang memadai.
16:57
by public infrastructure.
349
1005252
2242
16:59
And this kind of uneasiness,
sometimes even anger,
sometimes even anger,
350
1007518
4833
Kesulitan yang mereka hadapi,
kadang bahkan perasaan marah
kadang bahkan perasaan marah
17:04
that exists in this second generation
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1012375
2469
yang muncul di generasi kedua
17:06
is largely due to the failure
of integration policies,
of integration policies,
352
1014868
3023
sebagian besar muncul karena
kegagalan kebijakan integrasi,
kegagalan kebijakan integrasi,
17:09
to the failure of what should have been
a much stronger investment
a much stronger investment
353
1017915
3881
kegagalan untuk berinvestasi
untuk menciptakan kondisi
17:13
in creating the conditions for people
to live together and respect each other.
to live together and respect each other.
354
1021820
4388
dimana mereka dapat hidup bersama
dengan saling menghormati.
dengan saling menghormati.
17:18
For me it is clear.
355
1026232
1308
Bagi saya itu jelas.
17:19
(Applause)
356
1027564
3241
(Tepuk tangan)
17:22
For me it is clear that all societies
will be multiethnic, multicultural,
will be multiethnic, multicultural,
357
1030829
3870
Bagi saya, jelas bahwa masyarakat akan
menjadi multi etnis, multi budaya,
menjadi multi etnis, multi budaya,
17:26
multi-religious in the future.
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1034723
1626
dan multi agama di masa depan.
17:28
To try to avoid it is,
in my opinion, impossible.
in my opinion, impossible.
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1036666
3238
Tidak mungkin menghindarinya,
menurut pendapat saya.
menurut pendapat saya.
17:32
And for me it's a good thing
that they will be like that,
that they will be like that,
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1040420
2900
Dan menurut saya, ini adalah sesuatu hal
yang bagus,
yang bagus,
17:35
but I also recognize that,
for that to work properly,
for that to work properly,
361
1043344
3378
namun saya juga menyadari,
bahwa untuk bisa berhasil,
bahwa untuk bisa berhasil,
17:38
you need a huge investment
362
1046746
1956
kita memerlukan investasi besar
17:40
in the social cohesion
of your own societies.
of your own societies.
363
1048726
2436
untuk mewujudkan kepaduan sosial
dalam masyarakat kita.
dalam masyarakat kita.
17:43
And Europe, to a large extent,
failed in that investment
failed in that investment
364
1051186
3674
Dan Eropa gagal melakukannya
17:46
in the past few decades.
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1054884
3213
selama beberapa dekade terakhir.
17:50
BG: Question: You are stepping down
from your job at the end of the year,
from your job at the end of the year,
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1058121
3996
BG: Pertanyaan saya: Anda akan
turun dari jabatan Komisaris UNHCR
turun dari jabatan Komisaris UNHCR
akhir tahun ini, setelah 10 tahun.
17:54
after 10 years.
367
1062141
1533
17:55
If you look back at 2005,
368
1063698
1437
Jika Anda melihat kembali ke tahun 2005
17:57
when you entered that office
for the first time, what do you see?
for the first time, what do you see?
369
1065159
3075
ketika Anda pertama menjabat,
apa yang Anda saksikan?
apa yang Anda saksikan?
18:01
AG: Well, look:
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1069491
1855
AG: Begini,
18:04
In 2005, we were helping
one million people go back home
one million people go back home
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1072466
5377
Di tahun 2005, kami membantu satu juta
orang untuk kembali pulang
orang untuk kembali pulang
18:09
in safety and dignity,
because conflicts had ended.
because conflicts had ended.
372
1077867
3048
dalam keadaan aman dan terhormat,
karena konflik telah berakhir.
karena konflik telah berakhir.
18:13
Last year, we helped 124,000.
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1081692
2665
Tahun lalu, kami membantu 124.000 orang.
18:17
In 2005, we had about 38 million people
displaced by conflict in the world.
displaced by conflict in the world.
374
1085659
5088
Tahun 2005, ada sekitar 38 juta orang
tergusur karena konflik di dunia.
tergusur karena konflik di dunia.
18:22
Today, we have more than 60 million.
375
1090771
2471
Sekarang, ada lebih dari 60 juta.
18:26
At that time, we had had, recently,
376
1094052
3067
Waktu itu, ada beberapa konflik
18:29
some conflicts that were solved.
377
1097143
2679
yang baru saja terselesaikan.
18:32
Now, we see a multiplication
of new conflicts
of new conflicts
378
1100393
2307
Sekarang, konflik baru muncul
berlipat ganda
berlipat ganda
18:34
and the old conflicts never died:
379
1102724
1841
dan konflik yang lama
tak kunjung berakhir:
tak kunjung berakhir:
18:36
Afghanistan, Somalia,
Democratic Republic of Congo.
Democratic Republic of Congo.
380
1104589
3356
Afghanistan, Somalia,
Republik Demokrat Kongo.
Republik Demokrat Kongo.
18:39
It is clear that the world today
is much more dangerous than it was.
is much more dangerous than it was.
381
1107969
4056
Jadi jelas bahwa dunia kita sekarang
lebih berbahaya daripada sebelumnya.
lebih berbahaya daripada sebelumnya.
18:44
It is clear that the capacity
of the international community
of the international community
382
1112049
2844
Jelas bahwa kapasitas
komunitas internasional
komunitas internasional
untuk mencegah konflik dan
menyelesaikannya tepat waktu,
menyelesaikannya tepat waktu,
18:46
to prevent conflicts
and to timely solve them,
and to timely solve them,
383
1114917
2876
18:49
is, unfortunately, much worse
than what it was 10 years ago.
than what it was 10 years ago.
384
1117817
4154
sayangnya jauh lebih buruk
daripada 10 tahun yang lalu.
daripada 10 tahun yang lalu.
18:53
There are no clear
power relations in the world,
power relations in the world,
385
1121995
2745
Tidak ada hubungan kekuasaan
yang jelas di dunia,
yang jelas di dunia,
18:56
no global governance mechanisms that work,
386
1124764
2493
tidak ada mekanisme
pemerintahan global yang bekerja,
pemerintahan global yang bekerja,
18:59
which means that we live in a situation
387
1127281
2779
yang artinya kita hidup dalam situasi
19:02
where impunity and unpredictability
tend to prevail, and that means
tend to prevail, and that means
388
1130084
4926
yang cenderung membuat kekebalan hukuman
dan ketidakpastian terus ada
dan ketidakpastian terus ada
dan itu berarti semakin banyak
orang menderita,
orang menderita,
19:07
that more and more people suffer,
389
1135034
2415
terutama mereka yang
terusir karena konflik.
terusir karena konflik.
19:09
namely those that are
displaced by conflicts.
displaced by conflicts.
390
1137473
2393
19:11
BG: It's a tradition in American politics
391
1139890
2006
BG: Sudah tradisi dalam politik Amerika
19:13
that when a President leaves
the Oval Office for the last time,
the Oval Office for the last time,
392
1141920
3630
dimana ketika Presiden meninggalkan
Kantor Oval terakhir kalinya,
Kantor Oval terakhir kalinya,
19:17
he leaves a handwritten note
on the desk for his successor
on the desk for his successor
393
1145574
2777
ia meninggalkan catatan dengan
tulisan tangan di meja
tulisan tangan di meja
untuk penerusnya yang
akan menggantikannya.
akan menggantikannya.
19:20
that walks in a couple of hours later.
394
1148375
2101
19:22
If you had to write such a note
to your successor, Filippo Grandi,
to your successor, Filippo Grandi,
395
1150500
3185
Jika Anda menuliskan catatan seperti itu
untuk penerus Anda, Filippo Grandi,
untuk penerus Anda, Filippo Grandi,
19:25
what would you write?
396
1153709
1152
Anda akan tulis apa?
19:26
AG: Well, I don't think
I would write any message.
I would write any message.
397
1154885
3064
AG: Saya rasa saya tidak akan
menulis apapun.
menulis apapun.
19:29
You know, one of the terrible things
when one leaves an office
when one leaves an office
398
1157973
2975
Salah satu hal paling buruk ketika
seseorang meninggalkan jabatan
seseorang meninggalkan jabatan
19:32
is to try to become the backseat driver,
399
1160972
2730
adalah dengan mencoba
menyetir dari kursi belakang,
menyetir dari kursi belakang,
19:35
always telling the new one what to do.
400
1163726
2887
selalu memerintah pejabat yang baru.
19:38
So that, I will not do.
401
1166637
1516
Saya tidak akan seperti itu.
19:40
If I had to say something to him,
402
1168177
1944
Jika saya ingin berpesan padanya,
19:42
it would be, "Be yourself,
and do your best."
and do your best."
403
1170145
2277
"Jadi dirimu sendiri dan
lakukan yang terbaik."
lakukan yang terbaik."
19:44
BG: Commissioner, thank you
for the job you do.
for the job you do.
404
1172753
2246
BG: Komisaris, terima kasih atas
kerja keras Anda.
kerja keras Anda.
19:47
Thank you for coming to TED.
405
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ABOUT THE SPEAKER
António Guterres - Designate Secretary-General of the United NationsAntónio Guterres is at the forefront of advocating for refugee rights around the world.
Why you should listen
A former Portuguese prime minister, António Guterres was elected by the UN General Assembly to become the 10th United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees in June 2005. In October 2016 the United Nations Security Council announced he would be the next United Nations Secretary General, succeeding the retiring Ban Ki-moon.
As High Commissioner, he heads one of the world's foremost humanitarian organizations. UNHCR has twice won the Nobel Peace Prize. Its over 9,300 staff members work in 123 countries providing protection and assistance to nearly 55 million refugees, returnees, internally displaced people and stateless persons. Some 88 percent of UNHCR staff work in the field, often in difficult and dangerous duty stations.
Before joining UNHCR, Guterres spent more than 20 years in government and public service. He served as Portuguese prime minister from 1995 to 2002, during which time he was heavily involved in the international effort to resolve the crisis in East Timor. As president of the European Council in early 2000, he led the adoption of the so-called Lisbon Agenda and co-chaired the first European Union-Africa summit. He also founded the Portuguese Refugee Council in 1991 and was part of the Council of State of Portugal from 1991 to 2002.
From 1981 to 1983, Guterres was a member of the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe, as well as chairman of the Committee on Demography, Migration and Refugees. In addition, he has been active in Socialist International, a worldwide organization of social democratic political parties. He was the group's vice-president from 1992 to 1999 and president from 1999 until mid-2005.
Guterres was born on April 30, 1949, in Lisbon and educated at the Instituto Superior Técnico, where he remains a visiting professor. He is married and has two children.
António Guterres | Speaker | TED.com