TED2017
Susan Pinker: The secret to living longer may be your social life
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The Italian island of Sardinia has more than six times as many centenarians as the mainland and ten times as many as North America. Why? According to psychologist Susan Pinker, it's not a sunny disposition or a low-fat, gluten-free diet that keeps the islanders healthy -- it's their emphasis on close personal relationships and face-to-face interactions. Learn more about super longevity as Pinker explains what it takes to live to 100 and beyond.
Susan Pinker - Developmental psychologist
Susan Pinker reveals how in-person social interactions are not only necessary for human happiness but also could be a key to health and longevity. Full bio
Susan Pinker reveals how in-person social interactions are not only necessary for human happiness but also could be a key to health and longevity. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:12
Here's an intriguing fact.
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In the developed world,
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everywhere, women live an average
of six to eight years longer than men do.
of six to eight years longer than men do.
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Six to eight years longer.
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That's, like, a huge gap.
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In 2015, the "Lancet" published an article
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showing that men in rich countries
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are twice as likely to die as women are
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at any age.
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But there is one place in the world
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where men live as long as women.
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It's a remote, mountainous zone,
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a blue zone,
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where super longevity
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is common to both sexes.
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This is the blue zone in Sardinia,
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an Italian island in the Mediterranean,
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between Corsica and Tunisia,
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where there are six times
as many centenarians
as many centenarians
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as on the Italian mainland,
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less than 200 miles away.
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There are 10 times as many centenarians
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as there are in North America.
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It's the only place
where men live as long as women.
where men live as long as women.
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But why?
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My curiosity was piqued.
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I decided to research the sights
and the habits of the place,
and the habits of the place,
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and I started with the genetic profile.
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I discovered soon enough
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that genes account for just
25 percent of their longevity.
25 percent of their longevity.
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The other 75 percent is lifestyle.
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So what does it take
to live to 100 or beyond?
to live to 100 or beyond?
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What are they doing right?
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What you're looking at
is an aerial view of Villagrande.
is an aerial view of Villagrande.
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It's a village at the epicenter
of the blue zone
of the blue zone
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where I went to investigate this,
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and as you can see, architectural beauty
is not its main virtue,
is not its main virtue,
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density is:
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tightly spaced houses,
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interwoven alleys and streets.
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It means that the villagers' lives
constantly intersect.
constantly intersect.
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And as I walked through the village,
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I could feel hundreds
of pairs of eyes watching me
of pairs of eyes watching me
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from behind doorways and curtains,
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from behind shutters.
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Because like all ancient villages,
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Villagrande couldn't have survived
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without this structure,
without its walls, without its cathedral,
without its walls, without its cathedral,
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without its village square,
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because defense and social cohesion
defined its design.
defined its design.
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Urban priorities changed as we moved
towards the industrial revolution
towards the industrial revolution
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because infectious disease
became the risk of the day.
became the risk of the day.
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But what about now?
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Now, social isolation
is the public health risk of our time.
is the public health risk of our time.
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Now, a third of the population says
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they have two or fewer people to lean on.
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But let's go to Villagrande
now as a contrast
now as a contrast
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to meet some centenarians.
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Meet Giuseppe Murinu.
He's 102, a supercentenarian
He's 102, a supercentenarian
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and a lifelong resident
of the village of Villagrande.
of the village of Villagrande.
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He was a gregarious man.
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He loved to recount stories
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such as how he lived like a bird
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from what he could find
on the forest floor
on the forest floor
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during not one but two world wars,
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how he and his wife,
who also lived past 100,
who also lived past 100,
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raised six children
in a small, homey kitchen
in a small, homey kitchen
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where I interviewed him.
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Here he is with his sons
Angelo and Domenico,
Angelo and Domenico,
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both in their 70s
and looking after their father,
and looking after their father,
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and who were quite frankly
very suspicious of me and my daughter
very suspicious of me and my daughter
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who came along with me
on this research trip,
on this research trip,
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because the flip side of social cohesion
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is a wariness of strangers and outsiders.
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But Giuseppe, he wasn't suspicious at all.
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He was a happy-go-lucky guy,
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very outgoing with a positive outlook.
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And I wondered: so is that what it takes
to live to be 100 or beyond,
to live to be 100 or beyond,
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thinking positively?
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Actually, no.
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(Laughter)
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Meet Giovanni Corrias. He's 101,
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the grumpiest person I have ever met.
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(Laughter)
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And he put a lie to the notion
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that you have to be positive
to live a long life.
to live a long life.
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And there is evidence for this.
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When I asked him why he lived so long,
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he kind of looked at me
under hooded eyelids and he growled,
under hooded eyelids and he growled,
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"Nobody has to know my secrets."
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(Laughter)
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But despite being a sourpuss,
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the niece who lived with him
and looked after him
and looked after him
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called him "Il Tesoro," "my treasure."
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And she respected him and loved him,
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and she told me, when I questioned
this obvious loss of her freedom,
this obvious loss of her freedom,
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"You just don't understand, do you?
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Looking after this man is a pleasure.
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It's a huge privilege for me.
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This is my heritage."
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And indeed, wherever I went
to interview these centenarians,
to interview these centenarians,
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I found a kitchen party.
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Here's Giovanni with his two nieces,
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Maria above him
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and beside him his great-niece Sara,
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who came when I was there
to bring fresh fruits and vegetables.
to bring fresh fruits and vegetables.
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And I quickly discovered by being there
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that in the blue zone, as people age,
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and indeed across their lifespans,
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they're always surrounded
by extended family, by friends,
by extended family, by friends,
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by neighbors, the priest,
the barkeeper, the grocer.
the barkeeper, the grocer.
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People are always there or dropping by.
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They are never left
to live solitary lives.
to live solitary lives.
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This is unlike the rest
of the developed world,
of the developed world,
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where as George Burns quipped,
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"Happiness is having a large,
loving, caring family in another city."
loving, caring family in another city."
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(Laughter)
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Now, so far we've only met men,
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long-living men, but I met women too,
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and here you see Zia Teresa.
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She, at over 100, taught me
how to make the local specialty,
how to make the local specialty,
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which is called culurgiones,
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which are these large pasta pockets
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like ravioli about this size,
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this size,
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and they're filled
with high-fat ricotta and mint
with high-fat ricotta and mint
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and drenched in tomato sauce.
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And she showed me
how to make just the right crimp
how to make just the right crimp
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so they wouldn't open,
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and she makes them
with her daughters every Sunday
with her daughters every Sunday
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and distributes them
by the dozens to neighbors and friends.
by the dozens to neighbors and friends.
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And that's when I discovered
a low-fat, gluten-free diet
a low-fat, gluten-free diet
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is not what it takes
to live to 100 in the blue zone.
to live to 100 in the blue zone.
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(Applause)
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Now, these centenarians' stories
along with the science that underpins them
along with the science that underpins them
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prompted me to ask myself
some questions too,
some questions too,
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such as, when am I going to die
and how can I put that day off?
and how can I put that day off?
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And as you will see,
the answer is not what we expect.
the answer is not what we expect.
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Julianne Holt-Lunstad is a researcher
at Brigham Young University
at Brigham Young University
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and she addressed this very question
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in a series of studies
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of tens of thousands of middle aged people
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much like this audience here.
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And she looked at every
aspect of their lifestyle:
aspect of their lifestyle:
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their diet, their exercise,
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their marital status,
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how often they went to the doctor,
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whether they smoked or drank, etc.
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She recorded all of this
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and then she and her colleagues
sat tight and waited for seven years
sat tight and waited for seven years
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to see who would still be breathing.
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And of the people left standing,
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what reduced their chances
of dying the most?
of dying the most?
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That was her question.
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So let's now look at her data in summary,
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going from the least powerful
predictor to the strongest.
predictor to the strongest.
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OK?
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So clean air, which is great,
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it doesn't predict how long you will live.
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Whether you have your hypertension treated
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is good.
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Still not a strong predictor.
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Whether you're lean or overweight,
you can stop feeling guilty about this,
you can stop feeling guilty about this,
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because it's only in third place.
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How much exercise you get is next,
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still only a moderate predictor.
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Whether you've had a cardiac event
and you're in rehab and exercising,
and you're in rehab and exercising,
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getting higher now.
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Whether you've had a flu vaccine.
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Did anybody here know
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that having a flu vaccine
protects you more than doing exercise?
protects you more than doing exercise?
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Whether you were drinking and quit,
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or whether you're a moderate drinker,
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whether you don't smoke,
or if you did, whether you quit,
or if you did, whether you quit,
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and getting towards the top predictors
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are two features of your social life.
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First, your close relationships.
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These are the people
that you can call on for a loan
that you can call on for a loan
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if you need money suddenly,
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who will call the doctor
if you're not feeling well
if you're not feeling well
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or who will take you to the hospital,
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or who will sit with you
if you're having an existential crisis,
if you're having an existential crisis,
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if you're in despair.
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Those people, that little clutch of people
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are a strong predictor, if you have them,
of how long you'll live.
of how long you'll live.
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And then something that surprised me,
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something that's called
social integration.
social integration.
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This means how much
you interact with people
you interact with people
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as you move through your day.
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How many people do you talk to?
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And these mean both
your weak and your strong bonds,
your weak and your strong bonds,
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so not just the people
you're really close to,
you're really close to,
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who mean a lot to you,
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but, like, do you talk to the guy
who every day makes you your coffee?
who every day makes you your coffee?
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Do you talk to the postman?
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Do you talk to the woman who walks
by your house every day with her dog?
by your house every day with her dog?
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Do you play bridge or poker,
have a book club?
have a book club?
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Those interactions
are one of the strongest predictors
are one of the strongest predictors
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of how long you'll live.
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Now, this leads me to the next question:
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if we now spend more time online
than on any other activity,
than on any other activity,
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including sleeping,
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we're now up to 11 hours a day,
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one hour more than last year, by the way,
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does it make a difference?
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Why distinguish
between interacting in person
between interacting in person
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and interacting via social media?
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Is it the same thing as being there
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if you're in contact constantly
with your kids through text, for example?
with your kids through text, for example?
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Well, the short answer
to the question is no,
to the question is no,
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it's not the same thing.
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Face-to-face contact releases
a whole cascade of neurotransmitters,
a whole cascade of neurotransmitters,
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and like a vaccine,
they protect you now in the present
they protect you now in the present
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and well into the future.
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So simply making
eye contact with somebody,
eye contact with somebody,
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shaking hands, giving somebody a high-five
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is enough to release oxytocin,
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which increases your level of trust
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and it lowers your cortisol levels.
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So it lowers your stress.
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And dopamine is generated,
which gives us a little high
which gives us a little high
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and it kills pain.
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It's like a naturally produced morphine.
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Now, all of this passes
under our conscious radar,
under our conscious radar,
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which is why we conflate
online activity with the real thing.
online activity with the real thing.
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But we do have evidence now,
fresh evidence,
fresh evidence,
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that there is a difference.
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So let's look at some of the neuroscience.
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Elizabeth Redcay, a neuroscientist
at the University of Maryland,
at the University of Maryland,
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tried to map the difference
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between what goes on in our brains
when we interact in person
when we interact in person
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versus when we're watching
something that's static.
something that's static.
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And what she did was
she compared the brain function
she compared the brain function
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of two groups of people,
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those interacting live with her
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or with one of her research associates
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in a dynamic conversation,
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and she compared that
to the brain activity of people
to the brain activity of people
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who were watching her talk
about the same subject
about the same subject
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but in a canned video, like on YouTube.
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And by the way, if you want to know
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how she fit two people
in an MRI scanner at the same time,
in an MRI scanner at the same time,
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talk to me later.
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So what's the difference?
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This is your brain
on real social interaction.
on real social interaction.
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What you're seeing
is the difference in brain activity
is the difference in brain activity
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between interacting in person
and taking in static content.
and taking in static content.
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In orange, you see the brain areas
that are associated with attention,
that are associated with attention,
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social intelligence --
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that means anticipating
what somebody else is thinking
what somebody else is thinking
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and feeling and planning --
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and emotional reward.
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And these areas become much more engaged
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when we're interacting
with a live partner.
with a live partner.
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Now, these richer brain signatures
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might be why recruiters
from Fortune 500 companies
from Fortune 500 companies
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evaluating candidates
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thought that the candidates were smarter
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when they heard their voices
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compared to when they just
read their pitches in a text, for example,
read their pitches in a text, for example,
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or an email or a letter.
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Now, our voices and body language
convey a rich signal.
convey a rich signal.
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It shows that we're thinking, feeling,
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sentient human beings
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who are much more than an algorithm.
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Now, this research by Nicholas Epley
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at the University of Chicago
Business School
Business School
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is quite amazing because
it tells us a simple thing.
it tells us a simple thing.
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If somebody hears your voice,
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they think you're smarter.
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I mean, that's quite a simple thing.
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Now, to return to the beginning,
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why do women live longer than men?
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And one major reason
is that women are more likely
is that women are more likely
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to prioritize and groom
their face-to-face relationships
their face-to-face relationships
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over their lifespans.
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Fresh evidence shows
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that these in-person friendships
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create a biological force field
against disease and decline.
against disease and decline.
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And it's not just true of humans
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but their primate relations,
our primate relations as well.
our primate relations as well.
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Anthropologist Joan Silk's work
shows that female baboons
shows that female baboons
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who have a core of female friends
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show lower levels of stress
via their cortisol levels,
via their cortisol levels,
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they live longer and they have
more surviving offspring.
more surviving offspring.
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At least three stable relationships.
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That was the magic number.
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Think about it.
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I hope you guys have three.
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The power of such face-to-face contact
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is really why there are
the lowest rates of dementia
the lowest rates of dementia
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13:41
among people who are socially engaged.
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It's why women who have breast cancer
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are four times more likely
to survive their disease than loners are.
to survive their disease than loners are.
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Why men who've had a stroke
who meet regularly to play poker
who meet regularly to play poker
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or to have coffee
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or to play old-timer's hockey --
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I'm Canadian, after all --
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(Laughter)
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are better protected
by that social contact
by that social contact
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than they are by medication.
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Why men who've had a stroke
who meet regularly --
who meet regularly --
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this is something very
powerful they can do.
powerful they can do.
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This face-to-face contact
provides stunning benefits,
provides stunning benefits,
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yet now almost a quarter of the population
says they have no one to talk to.
says they have no one to talk to.
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We can do something about this.
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Like Sardinian villagers,
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it's a biological imperative
to know we belong,
to know we belong,
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and not just the women among us.
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14:31
Building in-person interaction
into our cities, into our workplaces,
into our cities, into our workplaces,
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into our agendas
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bolsters the immune system,
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sends feel-good hormones
surging through the bloodstream and brain
surging through the bloodstream and brain
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and helps us live longer.
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I call this building your village,
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and building it and sustaining it
is a matter of life and death.
is a matter of life and death.
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Thank you.
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(Applause)
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Helen Walters: Susan, come back.
I have a question for you.
I have a question for you.
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I'm wondering if there's a middle path.
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So you talk about the neurotransmitters
connecting when in face-to-face,
connecting when in face-to-face,
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but what about digital technology?
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We've seen enormous improvements
in digital technology
in digital technology
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like FaceTime, things like that.
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Does that work too?
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I mean, I see my nephew.
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He plays Minecraft
and he's yelling at his friends.
and he's yelling at his friends.
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It seems like he's connecting pretty well.
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Is that useful? Is that helpful?
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Susan Pinker: Some of the data
are just emerging.
are just emerging.
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The data are so fresh
that the digital revolution happened
that the digital revolution happened
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and the health data trailed behind.
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So we're just learning,
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but I would say
there are some improvements
there are some improvements
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that we could make in the technology.
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For example, the camera on your laptop
is at the top of the screen,
is at the top of the screen,
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so for example, when you're
looking into the screen,
looking into the screen,
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you're not actually making eye contact.
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So something as simple
as even just looking into the camera
as even just looking into the camera
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can increase those neurotransmitters,
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or maybe changing
the position of the camera.
the position of the camera.
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So it's not identical, but I think
we are getting closer with the technology.
we are getting closer with the technology.
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HW: Great. Thank you so much.
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SP: Thank you.
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(Applause)
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ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Susan Pinker - Developmental psychologistSusan Pinker reveals how in-person social interactions are not only necessary for human happiness but also could be a key to health and longevity.
Why you should listen
In her award-winning book The Sexual Paradox, psychologist Susan Pinker argued that biological differences could play an unexpectedly large role in creating classroom, lifespan and workplace gender gaps. With The Village Effect, she tracks another current: how social, face-to-face interactions are critical not only for our happiness but also for our survival, and how technology can isolate us from these life-saving bonds. As she writes: "Neglecting to keep in close contact with people who are important to you is at least as dangerous to your health as a pack-a-day cigarette habit, hypertension or obesity."
In addition to her books, Pinker writes a column for the Wall Street Journal, "Mind and Matter," which illuminates surprising advances in human behavior research. Pinker’s numerous writings (including her weekly columns "Problem Solving" and "The Business Brain") have appeared in the Guardian, the New York Times and Financial Times, among many others.
Susan Pinker | Speaker | TED.com