Jonathan Haidt: Can a divided America heal?
ג'ונתן היידט: האם ניתן לרפא את הפילוג בין שמאל לימין באמריקה ובעולם?
Jonathan Haidt studies how -- and why -- we evolved to be moral and political creatures. Full bioChris Anderson - TED Curator
After a long career in journalism and publishing, Chris Anderson became the curator of the TED Conference in 2002 and has developed it as a platform for identifying and disseminating ideas worth spreading. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
in the way that we're familiar with,
מהסוג שאנו מכירים,
and how did we get here?
apocalyptic sort of feeling.
that the other side is not just --
שהצד השני אינו צודק --
we strongly dislike them,
אנחנו מאד לא מחבבים אותם,
a threat to the nation.
now on both sides.
אחוזים בשני הצדדים.
than before; it's much more intense.
זה הרבה יותר חזק.
at any sort of social puzzle,
מכל סוג שהוא,
principles of moral psychology,
הבסיסיים של פסיכולוגיית המוסר,
have to always keep in mind
insights into human social nature
ביותר לגבי הטבע החברתי
against the stranger."
to create large societies
ליצור חברות רחבות היקף
in order to compete with others.
and out of small groups,
eternal conflict.
are making that more bitter,
הופכים אותו למר יותר,
baked into most people's mental wiring
של רוב האנשים
a basic aspect of human social cognition.
של ההכרה החברתית האנושית.
really peacefully,
לגמרי בשלום,
of fun ways of, like, playing war.
לשחק מלחמה בכאילו.
to exercise this tribal nature
לתרגל טבע שבטי זה
and exploration and meeting new people.
ובלפגוש אנשים חדשים.
as something that goes up or down --
כמשהו שעולה או יורד --
to always be fighting each other,
can shrink or expand.
יכול להתכווץ או להתרחב.
could continue indefinitely.
יוכל להמשך עד אינסוף.
תקופה מסויימת.
the sense of tribe for a while.
the new left-right distinction.
בין השמאל לימין.
as we've all inherited it,
ירשנו אותם,
versus capital distinction,
now, increasingly,
who want to stop at nation,
of a sense of being rooted,
their community and their nation.
anti-parochial and who --
of the John Lennon song "Imagine."
נזכר ב"דמיינו" של ג'ון לנון,
nothing to kill or die for."
אין דבר להרוג או למות בעבורו."
who want more global governance,
they don't like borders.
הם לא אוהבים גבולות.
actually, his name is Shakespeare --
למעשה, שמו שייקספיר --
or drawbridge-downers?"
52-48 on that point.
who grew up with The Beatles
of dreaming of a more connected world --
על עולם יותר מחובר --
anyone think badly about that?"
כלשהו לחשוב משהו רע על זה?"
feel that that isn't just silly;
and they're scared of it.
והם מפוחדים מזה.
in Europe but also here,
באירופה אבל גם באמריקה,
we have to look very carefully
בתשומת לב רבה
about diversity and immigration.
המגוון האנושי וההגירה.
that the left loves and the right --
שהשמאל אוהב והימין לא --
can't think straight about it.
לא יכולים לחשוב עליו בבהירות.
has grown enormously from it.
do a lot of good things.
I think, don't see,
לדעתי, לא רואים,
cuts social capital and trust.
study by Robert Putnam,
feel that they are the same,
a redistributionist welfare state.
המחלקת מחדש את העושר.
of being small, homogenous countries.
להיות מדינות קטנות והומוגניות.
a progressive welfare state,
left-leaning values, which says,
נוטים-לשמאל, מה שאומר,
The world is a great place.
we must welcome them in."
אנו חייבים לקדם אותם בברכה."
this summer,
is fairly politically correct
"פוליטיקלי קורקט"
as we have in America,
בדומה למה שקורה באמריקה,
racially divided, society.
פיצול שניתן לראות אותו.
uncomfortable to talk about.
especially in Europe and for us, too,
אבל גם עבור אמריקה,
themselves not racists,
humans are just too different;
הם פשוט שונים מדי האחד מהשני,
our sense of what humans are capable of,
של היכולות האנושיות,
שונים מדי האחד מהשני.
much more palatable
את זה יותר קל לעיכול
scientist named Karen Stenner,
בשם קארן סטנר,
we're all the same,
a predisposition to authoritarianism.
there's not a threat
כחלק מניסוי,
people are getting more different,
שאנשים הופכים יותר ויותר שונים,
they want to kick out the deviants.
הם רוצים לבעוט החוצה את השונים.
an authoritarian reaction.
תגובה לכיוון שלטון סמכותני.
the Lennonist line --
an authoritarian reaction.
in America with the alt-right.
עם האלט-רייט.
we've seen it all over Europe.
ראינו זאת בכל רחבי אירופה.
or the nationalists, are actually right --
או הלאומנים, צודקים למעשה --
our cultural similarity,
matter very much.
approach to immigration
כמענה להגירה
a generous welfare state,
that we're all the same.
and fears about that
of the current divide.
strategic reasoning second.
חשיבה הגיונית רק אחר-כך.
the term "motivated reasoning"
and our verbal abilities
והיכולות המילוליות שלנו
not to help us find out the truth,
למצוא את האמת
defend our reputation ...
על האחר, כדי להגן על שמנו הטוב...
at justifying ourselves.
group interests into account,
it's my team versus your team,
זו הקבוצה שלי נגד הקבוצה שלך,
that your side is wrong,
שמראה שהצד שלכם טועה,
a political argument.
לנצח בויכוח פוליטי.
with reasons and evidence,
the way reasoning works.
give us Google:
was born in Kenya.
10 million hits! Look, he was!"
10 מיליון חיפושים! תראה, זה נכון!"
surprise to a lot of people.
להרבה אנשים.
by techno-optimists
ע"י האופטימיסטים הטכנולוגיים
that would bring people together.
unexpected counter-effects to that.
of yin-yang views
about certain things,
that human nature is good:
the walls and all will be well.
את החומות והכל יהיה טוב.
not libertarians --
לא הליברטיאנים --
believe people can be greedy
שאנשים יכולים להיות רודפי בצע ביסודם
and we need restrictions.
all over the world,
לתקשר זה עם זה,
have been with us forever.
היו איתנו מאז ומתמיד.
this feeling of division?
different threads all coming together.
תהליכים שונים שמתקדמים כולם ביחד.
actually, America and Europe --
למעשה, באמריקה ובאירופה --
from Joe Henrich and others
in a commons dilemma
לגבי דילמות מקובלות
during World War II,
looking for scraps of aluminum
אחרי שאריות אלומיניום
and government,
at compromise and cooperation.
by the end of the '90s.
לקראת סוף שנות ה-90.
each other within each country,
בתוך כל מדינה,
"The Greatest Generation,"
"הדור הטוב ביותר",
is the purification of the two parties.
של שתי המפלגות.
and conservative Democrats.
ודמוקרטים שמרנים.
that was really bipartisan.
באמצע המאה העשרים.
that started things moving,
liberal party and conservative party.
מובהקת ומפלגה שמרנית מובהקת.
really are different,
our children to marry them,
didn't matter very much.
for post-hoc reasoning and demonization.
לשקול דעת שלאחר-מעשה ולדמוניזציה.
on the internet now is quite troubling.
הוא מטריד למדי.
on Twitter about the election
בטוויטר לגבי הבחירות
brought to us by #Trump."
dedication page. Disgusting!"
מגעיל!"
is troubling to me.
or a disagreement about something,
חוסר-הסכמה לגבי משהו,
takes things to a much deeper level.
לרמה הרבה יותר עמוקה.
you get angry, you're not angry;
אתה מתכעס, אתה לא כועס,
as subhuman, monstrous,
on marital therapy.
of the couple shows disgust or contempt,
מראה גועל או זלזול,
to get divorced soon,
that doesn't predict anything,
it actually is good.
הוא למעשה דבר טוב.
uses the word "disgust" a lot.
במילה "גועל" רבות.
so disgust does matter a lot --
לכן גועל מאד חשוב --
unique to him --
האחד של השני,
the Manichaean worldview,
is a battle between good and evil
they're wrong or I don't like them,
שהאחרים טועים ואני לא מחבב אותם,
for example, on campus now.
למשל בקמפוסים.
to keep people off campus,
להרחיק אנשים מהקמפוס,
generation of young people,
involves a lot of disgust,
הרבה גועל,
in politics as they get older.
כאשר יעלו בשנים.
and I think about emotions a lot.
ואני חושב רבות על רגשות.
of disgust is actually love.
powerful means we have.
that they're lovely.
or changes your category as well.
או משנה את הקיטלוג שלך גם כן.
much more mixed up in the their towns
היו מעורבבים יותר
this great moral divide,
that we're moving to be near people
עוברים לגור ליד אנשים
who's on the other side.
or say to Americans,
about each other
thing to keep in mind --
scientist Alan Abramowitz,
is increasingly governed
הולכת ונשלטת באופן גובר
OK there's a candidate,
או קיי ישנו מועמד,
you vote for the candidate.
and all sorts of other trends,
וכל הסוגים של הטרנדים האחרים,
the other side so horrible, so awful,
כל כך נורא, כל כך איום,
against the other side
that if people are on the left,
that Republicans were bad,
הם רעים,
I can paint with all the things
את כל הדברים
with their candidate.
election in American history.
ביותר בכל תולדות אמריקה.
your feelings about the candidate
אודות המועמד
who are given a choice.
in a separate moral world --
is that we're all trapped in "The Matrix,"
לכודים ב"מטריקס",
a consensual hallucination.
הזיה מוסכמת.
that the other side --
they're the worst people in the world,
הם האנשים הגרועים ביותר בעולם,
to back that up.
different set of facts.
different threats to the country.
from being in the middle
is: both sides are right.
ששני הצדדים צודקים.
to this country,
incapable of seeing them all.
that we almost need a new type of empathy?
צריכים סוג חדש של אמפתיה?
I can put myself in your shoes."
לשים את עצמי בנעלייך."
the needy, the suffering.
to people who we feel as other,
שאנו רואים כשונים,
to build that type of empathy?
סוג כזה של אמפתיה?
hot topic in psychology,
on the left in particular.
for the preferred classes of victims.
המועדפים של קרבנות.
think are so important.
כה חשובות.
because you get points for that.
נקודות זכות עבור זה.
if you do it when it's hard to do.
אם אתה חש אותה כאשר זה קשה לחוש אותה.
of dealing with our race problems
התמודדות עם בעיות הגזענות שלנו
for a long time
threat on our hands.
divide we face.
הרבה יותר מכל פילוג אחר.
and gender and LGBT,
of the next 50 years,
to get better on their own.
a lot of institutional reforms,
הרבה רפורמות מוסדיות,
wonky conversation.
realizing that this is a turning point.
שזוהי נקודת מפנה.
if you don't want to --
to spend the next four years
את ארבע השנים הבאות
for the last year -- raise your hand.
בשנה האחרונה -- הרימו ידכם.
read Marcus Aurelius.
קראו את מרקוס אורליוס.
for how to drop the fear,
wisdom for this kind of empathy.
הסוג הזה של אמפתיה.
people do to help heal?
כדי לסייע במרפא?
to overcome your deepest prejudices.
על הדעות הקדומות העמוקות ביותר שלך.
and stronger than race prejudices
וחזקות יותר מדעות קדומות גזעניות
that's the main thing.
זה הדבר העיקרי.
awful for one of you --
reach out and say you want to talk.
ותבקשו לשוחח.
Friends and Influence People" --
"כיצד תרכוש ידידים והשפעה" --
if you start by acknowledging,
דוד בוב",
about you, Uncle Bob,"
appreciation, it's like magic.
things I've learned
at apologizing now,
somebody was right about.
and it's actually really fun.
להיות ממש כייף.
speaking with you.
the ground that we're on
דורכים עליה
of morality and human nature.
ושל הטבע האנושי.
this time with us.
את זמנך איתנו.
ABOUT THE SPEAKERS
Jonathan Haidt - Social psychologistJonathan Haidt studies how -- and why -- we evolved to be moral and political creatures.
Why you should listen
By understanding more about our moral psychology and its biases, Jonathan Haidt says we can design better institutions (including companies, universities and democracy itself), and we can learn to be more civil and open-minded toward those who are not on our team.
Haidt is a social psychologist whose research on morality across cultures led to his 2008 TED Talk on the psychological roots of the American culture war, and his 2013 TED Talk on how "common threats can make common ground." In both of those talks he asks, "Can't we all disagree more constructively?" Haidt's 2012 TED Talk explored the intersection of his work on morality with his work on happiness to talk about "hive psychology" -- the ability that humans have to lose themselves in groups pursuing larger projects, almost like bees in a hive. This hivish ability is crucial, he argues, for understanding the origins of morality, politics, and religion. These are ideas that Haidt develops at greater length in his book, The Righteous Mind: Why Good People are Divided by Politics and Religion.
Haidt joined New York University Stern School of Business in July 2011. He is the Thomas Cooley Professor of Ethical Leadership, based in the Business and Society Program. Before coming to Stern, Professor Haidt taught for 16 years at the University of Virginia in the department of psychology.
Haidt's writings appear frequently in the New York Times and The Wall Street Journal. He was named one of the top global thinkers by Foreign Policy magazine and by Prospect magazine. Haidt received a B.A. in Philosophy from Yale University, and an M.A. and Ph.D. in Psychology from the University of Pennsylvania.
Jonathan Haidt | Speaker | TED.com
Chris Anderson - TED Curator
After a long career in journalism and publishing, Chris Anderson became the curator of the TED Conference in 2002 and has developed it as a platform for identifying and disseminating ideas worth spreading.
Why you should listen
Chris Anderson is the Curator of TED, a nonprofit devoted to sharing valuable ideas, primarily through the medium of 'TED Talks' -- short talks that are offered free online to a global audience.
Chris was born in a remote village in Pakistan in 1957. He spent his early years in India, Pakistan and Afghanistan, where his parents worked as medical missionaries, and he attended an American school in the Himalayas for his early education. After boarding school in Bath, England, he went on to Oxford University, graduating in 1978 with a degree in philosophy, politics and economics.
Chris then trained as a journalist, working in newspapers and radio, including two years producing a world news service in the Seychelles Islands.
Back in the UK in 1984, Chris was captivated by the personal computer revolution and became an editor at one of the UK's early computer magazines. A year later he founded Future Publishing with a $25,000 bank loan. The new company initially focused on specialist computer publications but eventually expanded into other areas such as cycling, music, video games, technology and design, doubling in size every year for seven years. In 1994, Chris moved to the United States where he built Imagine Media, publisher of Business 2.0 magazine and creator of the popular video game users website IGN. Chris eventually merged Imagine and Future, taking the combined entity public in London in 1999, under the Future name. At its peak, it published 150 magazines and websites and employed 2,000 people.
This success allowed Chris to create a private nonprofit organization, the Sapling Foundation, with the hope of finding new ways to tackle tough global issues through media, technology, entrepreneurship and, most of all, ideas. In 2001, the foundation acquired the TED Conference, then an annual meeting of luminaries in the fields of Technology, Entertainment and Design held in Monterey, California, and Chris left Future to work full time on TED.
He expanded the conference's remit to cover all topics, including science, business and key global issues, while adding a Fellows program, which now has some 300 alumni, and the TED Prize, which grants its recipients "one wish to change the world." The TED stage has become a place for thinkers and doers from all fields to share their ideas and their work, capturing imaginations, sparking conversation and encouraging discovery along the way.
In 2006, TED experimented with posting some of its talks on the Internet. Their viral success encouraged Chris to begin positioning the organization as a global media initiative devoted to 'ideas worth spreading,' part of a new era of information dissemination using the power of online video. In June 2015, the organization posted its 2,000th talk online. The talks are free to view, and they have been translated into more than 100 languages with the help of volunteers from around the world. Viewership has grown to approximately one billion views per year.
Continuing a strategy of 'radical openness,' in 2009 Chris introduced the TEDx initiative, allowing free licenses to local organizers who wished to organize their own TED-like events. More than 8,000 such events have been held, generating an archive of 60,000 TEDx talks. And three years later, the TED-Ed program was launched, offering free educational videos and tools to students and teachers.
Chris Anderson | Speaker | TED.com