Jonathan Haidt: Can a divided America heal?
ジョナサン・ハイト: アメリカは対立から立ち直れるか?
Jonathan Haidt studies how -- and why -- we evolved to be moral and political creatures. Full bioChris Anderson - TED Curator
After a long career in journalism and publishing, Chris Anderson became the curator of the TED Conference in 2002 and has developed it as a platform for identifying and disseminating ideas worth spreading. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
ジョン 怖い状況ですね
陥っている気がします
in the way that we're familiar with,
左派と右派の政治的対立のせいで
噛み合わないだけでなく
出来つつあります
and how did we get here?
なぜ こうなってしまったのでしょう?
これまでとは違います
apocalyptic sort of feeling.
わかったことですが
that the other side is not just --
我々の感情は
we strongly dislike them,
激しい嫌悪であり
a threat to the nation.
考えています
どんどん増加し
5割を超えています
now on both sides.
極端だと感じているからです
than before; it's much more intense.
検討する時はいつも
at any sort of social puzzle,
principles of moral psychology,
3つの基本原則を利用しますが
have to always keep in mind
insights into human social nature
最もシンプルで偉大な洞察に
ことわざがあります
いとこと対立し
against the stranger."
よそ者と対立する」
to create large societies
人間は 大規模な社会を築き
in order to compete with others.
競争できるようになりました
and out of small groups,
小さな群れを捨てた要因ですが
eternal conflict.
続くことになりました
社会のどの側面にあり
are making that more bitter,
ことわざですね
焼き付けられているということですか?
baked into most people's mental wiring
焼き付けられているということですか?
これは人間の社会的認知の基礎ですから
a basic aspect of human social cognition.
共存することもできて
really peacefully,
発明してきました
of fun ways of, like, playing war.
同族中心という性質を
to exercise this tribal nature
行動に表す方法です
新たな人との出会いが得意です
and exploration and meeting new people.
as something that goes up or down --
良し悪しがあると考えるべきです
わけではないけれど
to always be fighting each other,
伸縮しますよね
can shrink or expand.
could continue indefinitely.
考える人もいますね
同族意識を拡張してきました
the sense of tribe for a while.
the new left-right distinction.
区別に達しつつあるんです
as we've all inherited it,
versus capital distinction,
生じたものです
now, increasingly,
目の当たりにしつつあるのは
起きている分裂です
who want to stop at nation,
留まりたい人々や
感覚を持つ人々がいて
of a sense of being rooted,
their community and their nation.
気にかけています
anti-parochial and who --
反対する人々がいます
of the John Lennon song "Imagine."
『イマジン』を思い浮かべます
殺す相手も 死ぬ理由もない」
nothing to kill or die for."
よりグローバルな統治を求め
who want more global governance,
they don't like borders.
actually, his name is Shakespeare --
シェイクスピアという姓ですが
10年前に書いた記事の中で
or drawbridge-downers?"
城門を開く派か?」
52-48 on that point.
52%と48%に分かれました
意見が割れています
who grew up with The Beatles
ビートルズとか
of dreaming of a more connected world --
共に育った人間は
快く思わない人がいるとは信じられません
anyone think badly about that?"
危険で 間違ったものと感じ
feel that that isn't just silly;
and they're scared of it.
数百万人いるということですね
ヨーロッパで特に深刻なのは
in Europe but also here,
we have to look very carefully
about diversity and immigration.
検討すべきだと思うんです
that the left loves and the right --
右派のお気に入りになってしまうと
理路整然とは考えられなくなります
can't think straight about it.
良いところがあります
技術革新は目覚しい進歩を遂げ
急成長してきたんですから
has grown enormously from it.
良い面がたくさんあるんです
do a lot of good things.
見落としていること —
I think, don't see,
信頼を損なうという点です
cuts social capital and trust.
study by Robert Putnam,
ロバート・パットナムは
データベースを調べています
感じる人が増えると
feel that they are the same,
福祉国家になりやすいんです
a redistributionist welfare state.
とても素晴らしいのは
名残があるからです
of being small, homogenous countries.
a progressive welfare state,
left-leaning values, which says,
こんな形であらわれます
The world is a great place.
世界は素晴らしい
we must welcome them in."
入国を歓迎しなければ」
this summer,
私は この夏スウェーデンにいましたが
非差別が強調され
is fairly politically correct
話せない状況であれば
受け入れることになるでしょう
as we have in America,
社会になってしまうかもしれません
racially divided, society.
uncomfortable to talk about.
特にヨーロッパで そしてアメリカでも
especially in Europe and for us, too,
道徳的で誠実だと
themselves not racists,
humans are just too different;
許容できる限界を超える危険があると
our sense of what humans are capable of,
much more palatable
人種の問題に限定しなければ
scientist named Karen Stenner,
素晴らしい研究をしていて
みんな同じだと感じている時は
we're all the same,
a predisposition to authoritarianism.
明らかにしました
社会的秩序や
脅威がないと感じる限り
there's not a threat
違いが増していると信じ込ませると
people are getting more different,
異質な人を排除しようとするんです
they want to kick out the deviants.
an authoritarian reaction.
原因の一部です
the Lennonist line --
レノン的な路線 —
反応を生み出します
an authoritarian reaction.
新興右派に 確かに見られます
in America with the alt-right.
ヨーロッパ全域でもそうです
we've seen it all over Europe.
プラスの側面もあって
or the nationalists, are actually right --
民族主義者が 実は正しくて
our cultural similarity,
matter very much.
なくなるという点です
approach to immigration
同化主義的なアプローチで
強調するのであれば
a generous welfare state,
that we're all the same.
強調する必要があるんです
and fears about that
そこからくる恐怖の高まりが
of the current divide.
もう1つの原理とは
strategic reasoning second.
戦略的思考はその後 ということです
the term "motivated reasoning"
「確証バイアス」という言葉を
進化してきたのは
and our verbal abilities
not to help us find out the truth,
守るためかもしれないというんです
defend our reputation ...
すごく得意です
at justifying ourselves.
group interests into account,
it's my team versus your team,
自分のチーム対相手チームの場合
that your side is wrong,
自分たちが間違っていても
a political argument.
勝つことはできません
with reasons and evidence,
人は説得できないからです
the way reasoning works.
働かないのですから
give us Google:
Googleを使うとしましょう
was born in Kenya.
ケニア生まれらしいよ
10 million hits! Look, he was!"
こうなるんです
surprise to a lot of people.
感じる人も多いでしょう
人々を結びつける強力な手段として
by techno-optimists
that would bring people together.
作り上げてきたのですから
反作用があったんですね
unexpected counter-effects to that.
左右の対立を
of yin-yang views
惹かれるんです
about certain things,
that human nature is good:
人間の本質は善であり
なんでもうまくいくと信じます
the walls and all will be well.
社会保守主義のことですが
not libertarians --
人間は欲深く
believe people can be greedy
and we need restrictions.
信じています
all over the world,
とれるようにしてしまうと
今までずっと存在していました
have been with us forever.
this feeling of division?
何が変わったからでしょう?
different threads all coming together.
絡んでいることを理解する必要があります
actually, America and Europe --
実はアメリカとヨーロッパ両方ですが
第二次世界大戦です
from Joe Henrich and others
興味深い研究があって
戦争を経験し
in a commons dilemma
「囚人のジレンマ」で
もし 自分が…
during World War II,
第二次世界大戦の時 十代で
looking for scraps of aluminum
アルミくずを探しに
and government,
at compromise and cooperation.
by the end of the '90s.
ベビーブーマーでした
each other within each country,
国内で争って過ごしました
"The Greatest Generation,"
「最高の世代」を失った影響は
is the purification of the two parties.
2大政党の純化です
保守的な民主党員がいました
and conservative Democrats.
that was really bipartisan.
超党派的だったんです
that started things moving,
様々な要因があって
保守的な党になっていきました
liberal party and conservative party.
really are different,
まったく違っていて
結婚に反対するほどですが
our children to marry them,
大した問題ではなかったんです
didn't matter very much.
先ほど言ったように
for post-hoc reasoning and demonization.
非常に強く誘発します
on the internet now is quite troubling.
雰囲気を見ると とても不安になります
on Twitter about the election
ちょっとTwitterを検索したら
brought to us by #Trump."
醜いアメリカの姿」
dedication page. Disgusting!"
ムカつく!」
is troubling to me.
胸騒ぎを覚えます
or a disagreement about something,
議論や 意見の不一致や
あってもいいでしょうが
takes things to a much deeper level.
事態が深刻化する原因だからです
嫌悪感は別ものです
私には子供がいますが
you get angry, you're not angry;
怒っては おさまり —
人間でない怪物のような
as subhuman, monstrous,
変えてしまいます
消えないインクのようです
on marital therapy.
夫婦療法の研究があります
of the couple shows disgust or contempt,
嫌悪や軽蔑を示したら
to get divorced soon,
すぐ離婚する兆候ですが
that doesn't predict anything,
何かを予測できるわけではありません
怒りは 実は良いものだからです
it actually is good.
よく「ムカつく」と言いますが
uses the word "disgust" a lot.
so disgust does matter a lot --
嫌悪感には大きな意味があります
unique to him --
彼の特徴でもあります
我々が互いに貶め合えば
the Manichaean worldview,
is a battle between good and evil
戦いであるという見方が
they're wrong or I don't like them,
気に入らないと言うだけでなく
言うようになり
思うようになります
for example, on campus now.
例えば大学で目にするんでしょう
to keep people off campus,
黙らせ 遠ざけようとする衝動を
generation of young people,
若者世代全体が
嫌悪感を持ってしまうと
involves a lot of disgust,
in politics as they get older.
関わろうとしなくなることです
解消したらいいでしょう?
and I think about emotions a lot.
感情について考えてきましたが
of disgust is actually love.
実は「愛」だと思っています
powerful means we have.
最強の手段だと思います
覚えるかもしれませんが
that they're lovely.
気づくんです
or changes your category as well.
カテゴリーも少しずつ崩れ 変化します
much more mixed up in the their towns
地域の中で左右の立場や政治信条が
this great moral divide,
集まりつつあるという
that we're moving to be near people
難しくなっているんです
who's on the other side.
人々全体に対して あなたが伝えたいこと
or say to Americans,
人々全体に対して あなたが伝えたいこと
少しでも考え直すために役立つ
about each other
理解すべきこととは
thing to keep in mind --
重要なことがあります
scientist Alan Abramowitz,
研究によれば
is increasingly governed
「否定的党派性」と呼ばれるものに
明らかになっています
OK there's a candidate,
自分の意思で候補を見出し
投票していると思っています
you vote for the candidate.
その他の流行とともに
and all sorts of other trends,
the other side so horrible, so awful,
仕立て上げるので
支持する候補に投票します
against the other side
対立候補への反対票であって
that if people are on the left,
左派の人々なら こう考えます
that Republicans were bad,
悪だと思ってきたが
それを証明している
I can paint with all the things
共和党員 全員に
with their candidate.
満足していません
否定的党派性が色濃い選挙です
election in American history.
your feelings about the candidate
候補を選ぶ立場である —
who are given a choice.
分けなければならないし
in a separate moral world --
生きているからです
is that we're all trapped in "The Matrix,"
みんな『マトリックス』に囚われているか
a consensual hallucination.
マトリックス つまり共同幻影なんです
青いマトリックスの中にいたら
that the other side --
相手側が —
they're the worst people in the world,
世界で最悪の人間だという
そう思い込みます
to back that up.
暮らしていて
different set of facts.
different threats to the country.
国の脅威と考えます
from being in the middle
is: both sides are right.
どちらも正しいということです
to this country,
すべてを見渡すことはできないんです
incapable of seeing them all.
that we almost need a new type of empathy?
共感が必要だと言うことですか?
I can put myself in your shoes."
立場が よくわかる」
the needy, the suffering.
苦しむ人に当てはめることです
to people who we feel as other,
嫌悪感を覚える人々には
to build that type of empathy?
どうなるでしょう?
hot topic in psychology,
極めてホットな話題で
on the left in particular.
とても人気のある言葉です
共感は美徳であり
for the preferred classes of victims.
大切だと思う集団に
think are so important.
重要だというわけです
because you get points for that.
賞賛されますから
if you do it when it's hard to do.
本当の意味で賞賛されるべきです
人種問題や
of dealing with our race problems
取り組んできました
for a long time
一番 優先順位が高く
近づいていることに
threat on our hands.
願っています
divide we face.
and gender and LGBT,
LGBTの問題はありますが
of the next 50 years,
今後50年間の急務ですし
to get better on their own.
ものではありません
a lot of institutional reforms,
必要でしょうし
wonky conversation.
するようなものです
realizing that this is a turning point.
気づくことから対話は始まると思います
新しい共感は必要なんです
if you don't want to --
今後4年間 —
to spend the next four years
抱え続けていたい人は 手をあげて
for the last year -- raise your hand.
read Marcus Aurelius.
マルクス・アウレリウスを読んでください
for how to drop the fear,
恐怖を振り払う方法や
止める方法といったアドバイスです
wisdom for this kind of empathy.
過去の叡智にヒントがあるんです
我々が個人としてできることは?
people do to help heal?
to overcome your deepest prejudices.
かなり難しいことです
and stronger than race prejudices
政治的な偏見の方が
わかっています
that's the main thing.
これが一番大切です
実際に人に会ってください
いとこや義理の兄弟に
awful for one of you --
いるでしょうから —
連絡を取り 話がしたいと言うんです
reach out and say you want to talk.
Friends and Influence People" --
『人を動かす』を読んでください
if you start by acknowledging,
相手を受け入れて
尊敬できるところは…」とか
about you, Uncle Bob,"
不思議と効果があるんです
appreciation, it's like magic.
things I've learned
人間関係に取り入れてきた
つまらない過ちを犯しますが
at apologizing now,
somebody was right about.
上手くなっています
and it's actually really fun.
本当に楽しいものなんです
speaking with you.
本当に興味が尽きません
the ground that we're on
道徳性と人間の本質に関わる
of morality and human nature.
状況にあると 強く感じます
本当に大きな意味があります
this time with us.
ありがとうございました
ABOUT THE SPEAKERS
Jonathan Haidt - Social psychologistJonathan Haidt studies how -- and why -- we evolved to be moral and political creatures.
Why you should listen
By understanding more about our moral psychology and its biases, Jonathan Haidt says we can design better institutions (including companies, universities and democracy itself), and we can learn to be more civil and open-minded toward those who are not on our team.
Haidt is a social psychologist whose research on morality across cultures led to his 2008 TED Talk on the psychological roots of the American culture war, and his 2013 TED Talk on how "common threats can make common ground." In both of those talks he asks, "Can't we all disagree more constructively?" Haidt's 2012 TED Talk explored the intersection of his work on morality with his work on happiness to talk about "hive psychology" -- the ability that humans have to lose themselves in groups pursuing larger projects, almost like bees in a hive. This hivish ability is crucial, he argues, for understanding the origins of morality, politics, and religion. These are ideas that Haidt develops at greater length in his book, The Righteous Mind: Why Good People are Divided by Politics and Religion.
Haidt joined New York University Stern School of Business in July 2011. He is the Thomas Cooley Professor of Ethical Leadership, based in the Business and Society Program. Before coming to Stern, Professor Haidt taught for 16 years at the University of Virginia in the department of psychology.
Haidt's writings appear frequently in the New York Times and The Wall Street Journal. He was named one of the top global thinkers by Foreign Policy magazine and by Prospect magazine. Haidt received a B.A. in Philosophy from Yale University, and an M.A. and Ph.D. in Psychology from the University of Pennsylvania.
Jonathan Haidt | Speaker | TED.com
Chris Anderson - TED Curator
After a long career in journalism and publishing, Chris Anderson became the curator of the TED Conference in 2002 and has developed it as a platform for identifying and disseminating ideas worth spreading.
Why you should listen
Chris Anderson is the Curator of TED, a nonprofit devoted to sharing valuable ideas, primarily through the medium of 'TED Talks' -- short talks that are offered free online to a global audience.
Chris was born in a remote village in Pakistan in 1957. He spent his early years in India, Pakistan and Afghanistan, where his parents worked as medical missionaries, and he attended an American school in the Himalayas for his early education. After boarding school in Bath, England, he went on to Oxford University, graduating in 1978 with a degree in philosophy, politics and economics.
Chris then trained as a journalist, working in newspapers and radio, including two years producing a world news service in the Seychelles Islands.
Back in the UK in 1984, Chris was captivated by the personal computer revolution and became an editor at one of the UK's early computer magazines. A year later he founded Future Publishing with a $25,000 bank loan. The new company initially focused on specialist computer publications but eventually expanded into other areas such as cycling, music, video games, technology and design, doubling in size every year for seven years. In 1994, Chris moved to the United States where he built Imagine Media, publisher of Business 2.0 magazine and creator of the popular video game users website IGN. Chris eventually merged Imagine and Future, taking the combined entity public in London in 1999, under the Future name. At its peak, it published 150 magazines and websites and employed 2,000 people.
This success allowed Chris to create a private nonprofit organization, the Sapling Foundation, with the hope of finding new ways to tackle tough global issues through media, technology, entrepreneurship and, most of all, ideas. In 2001, the foundation acquired the TED Conference, then an annual meeting of luminaries in the fields of Technology, Entertainment and Design held in Monterey, California, and Chris left Future to work full time on TED.
He expanded the conference's remit to cover all topics, including science, business and key global issues, while adding a Fellows program, which now has some 300 alumni, and the TED Prize, which grants its recipients "one wish to change the world." The TED stage has become a place for thinkers and doers from all fields to share their ideas and their work, capturing imaginations, sparking conversation and encouraging discovery along the way.
In 2006, TED experimented with posting some of its talks on the Internet. Their viral success encouraged Chris to begin positioning the organization as a global media initiative devoted to 'ideas worth spreading,' part of a new era of information dissemination using the power of online video. In June 2015, the organization posted its 2,000th talk online. The talks are free to view, and they have been translated into more than 100 languages with the help of volunteers from around the world. Viewership has grown to approximately one billion views per year.
Continuing a strategy of 'radical openness,' in 2009 Chris introduced the TEDx initiative, allowing free licenses to local organizers who wished to organize their own TED-like events. More than 8,000 such events have been held, generating an archive of 60,000 TEDx talks. And three years later, the TED-Ed program was launched, offering free educational videos and tools to students and teachers.
Chris Anderson | Speaker | TED.com