TEDSalon NY2011
Barry Schwartz: Using our practical wisdom
Barry Schwartz: Koristiti našu praktičnu mudrost
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Pred malobrojnom publikom Barry Schwartz uranja u pitanje "Kako činimo pravu stvar?" Uz pomoć suradnika Kenneth-a Sharpe-a, dijeli priče koje prikazuju razliku između sljeđenja pravila i uistinu mudrog izbora.
Barry Schwartz - Psychologist
Barry Schwartz studies the link between economics and psychology, offering startling insights into modern life. Lately, working with Ken Sharpe, he's studying wisdom. Full bio
Barry Schwartz studies the link between economics and psychology, offering startling insights into modern life. Lately, working with Ken Sharpe, he's studying wisdom. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:00
The first thing I want to do is say thank you to all of you.
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Prva stvar koju želim napraviti jest zahvaliti se svima vama.
00:03
The second thing I want to do is introduce my co-author
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Druga stvar koju želim napraviti jest predstaviti vam mog ko-autora
00:06
and dear friend and co-teacher.
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i dragog prijatelja i ko-učitelja.
00:08
Ken and I have been working together
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Ken i ja radimo zajedno
00:10
for almost 40 years.
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gotovo 40 godina.
00:12
That's Ken Sharpe over there.
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Ono tamo je Ken Sharpe.
00:14
(Applause)
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(Pljesak)
00:16
So there is among many people --
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Među mnogim ljudima --
00:19
certainly me and most of the people I talk to --
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svakako sa mnom i ljudima s kojima razgovaram --
00:21
a kind of collective dissatisfaction
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postoji neka vrsta kolektivnog nezadovoljstva
00:24
with the way things are working,
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načinom na koji stvari funkcioniraju,
00:26
with the way our institutions run.
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s načinom na koji naše institucije rade.
00:29
Our kids' teachers seem to be failing them.
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Čini se kako učitelji znaju iznevjeriti našu djecu.
00:33
Our doctors don't know who the hell we are,
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Naši doktori nemaju pojma tko smo,
00:36
and they don't have enough time for us.
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i nemaju dovoljno vremena za nas.
00:38
We certainly can't trust the bankers,
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Svakako ne možemo vjerovati našim bankarima,
00:40
and we certainly can't trust the brokers.
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i sigurno ne možemo vjerovati brokerima.
00:43
They almost brought the entire financial system down.
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Oni su gotovo slomili cijeli financijski sustav.
00:46
And even as we do our own work,
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I čak kada radimo naš posao,
00:49
all too often,
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prečesto,
00:51
we find ourselves having to choose
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se nalazimo u situacijama gdje moramo birati
00:54
between doing what we think is the right thing
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između onoga što mislimo da je pravilno
00:57
and doing the expected thing,
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i onoga što se očekuje,
00:59
or the required thing,
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ili traži,
01:01
or the profitable thing.
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ili onoga što je profitabilno.
01:03
So everywhere we look,
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Gdje god pogledamo,
01:05
pretty much across the board,
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skoro u svim sferama,
01:07
we worry that the people we depend on
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brinemo se da ljudi o kojima ovisimo
01:10
don't really have our interests at heart.
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nemaju stvarni interes za nas.
01:14
Or if they do have our interests at heart,
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Ili ako imaju interes,
01:17
we worry that they don't know us well enough
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brinemo se da nas ne poznaju dovoljno
01:19
to figure out what they need to do
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kako bi spoznali što trebaju napraviti
01:21
in order to allow us
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da bi nam dozvolili
01:23
to secure those interests.
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da osiguramo svoje interese.
01:25
They don't understand us.
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Oni nas ne razumiju.
01:27
They don't have the time to get to know us.
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Nemaju vremena upoznati nas.
01:29
There are two kinds of responses
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Postoje dvije vrste odgovora
01:31
that we make
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koje imamo
01:33
to this sort of general dissatisfaction.
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na ovu vrstu općeg nezadovoljstva.
01:37
If things aren't going right,
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Ako stvari ne idu u dobrom smjeru
01:39
the first response is:
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prvi odgovor je:
01:41
let's make more rules,
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napravimo još pravila,
01:43
let's set up a set
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uspostavimo niz
01:45
of detailed procedures
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detaljnih procedura
01:47
to make sure that people will do the right thing.
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kako bismo bili sigurni da će ljudi napraviti pravu stvar.
01:50
Give teachers scripts
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Dajte učiteljima skripte
01:52
to follow in the classroom,
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koje će pratiti u učionicama,
01:54
so even if they don't know what they're doing
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tako kada i ne znaju što rade
01:56
and don't care about the welfare of our kids,
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i ne brinu o dobrobiti naše djece,
01:59
as long as they follow the scripts,
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dokle god prate skripte,
02:01
our kids will get educated.
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naša djeca će se obrazovati.
02:03
Give judges a list of mandatory sentences
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Dajte sucima listu obveznih kazni
02:06
to impose for crimes,
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koje će primjeniti na kriminal,
02:08
so that you don't need to rely
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kako se ne bi pouzdali
02:10
on judges using their judgment.
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u njihove procjene.
02:13
Instead, all they have to do
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Umjesto toga, sve što trebaju napraviti
02:15
is look up on the list
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jest pogledati na listu
02:17
what kind of sentence goes with what kind of crime.
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kakva vrsta kazne ide s kakvom vrstom kriminala.
02:20
Impose limits
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Uvedite ograničenja
02:22
on what credit card companies can charge in interest
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koliko kompanije kreditnih kartica mogu zaračunavati kamata
02:25
and on what they can charge in fees.
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i na što mogu zaračunavati svoje provizije.
02:27
More and more rules
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Sve više pravila
02:29
to protect us
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kako bi nas zaštitila
02:31
against an indifferent, uncaring
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od ravnodušnog, nezainteresiranog
02:33
set of institutions we have to deal with.
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niza institucija s kojima se moramo baviti.
02:36
Or -- or maybe and --
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Ili -- ili možda i --
02:38
in addition to rules,
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u dodatku na pravila,
02:40
let's see if we can come up
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idemo vidjeti možemo li osmisliti
02:42
with some really clever incentives
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s nekim stvarno pametnim poticajima
02:44
so that, even if the people we deal with
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tako da, čak i ako ljudi s kojima radimo
02:46
don't particularly want to serve our interests,
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koji ne žele posebno brinuti o našem interesu,
02:49
it is in their interest
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da bude u njihovom interesu
02:51
to serve our interest --
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da se brinu o našem interesu --
02:53
the magic incentives
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magični poticaj
02:55
that will get people to do the right thing
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koji će potaknuti ljude da čine pravu stvar
02:57
even out of pure selfishness.
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čak i iz čiste sebičnosti.
03:00
So we offer teachers bonuses
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Tako ponudimo učiteljima bonuse
03:02
if the kids they teach
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ako djeca koju uče
03:04
score passing grades on these big test scores
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dobe prolazne ocjene na tim velikim testovima
03:07
that are used to evaluate
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koji se koriste za procjenu
03:09
the quality of school systems.
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kvalitete školskog sustava.
03:12
Rules and incentives --
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Pravila i poticaji --
03:14
"sticks" and "carrots."
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štap i mrkva.
03:16
We passed a bunch of rules
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Usvojili smo niz pravila
03:18
to regulate the financial industry
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za reguliranje financijske industrije
03:20
in response to the recent collapse.
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kao odgovor na nedavni kolaps.
03:22
There's the Dodd-Frank Act,
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Postoji Dodd-Frank zakon,
03:24
there's the new Consumer Financial Protection Agency
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postoji nova Agencija za financijsku zaštitu potrošača
03:27
that is temporarily being headed through the backdoor
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koju privremeno pokušava progurati na zadnja vrata
03:30
by Elizabeth Warren.
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Elizabeth Warren.
03:32
Maybe these rules
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Možda će ta pravila
03:34
will actually improve
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stvarno poboljšati
03:37
the way these financial services companies behave.
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način na koji se ponašaju te kompanije za financijske usluge.
03:41
We'll see.
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Vidjeti ćemo.
03:43
In addition, we are struggling
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Pored toga, borimo se
03:45
to find some way to create incentives
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da pronađemo način za stvaranje poticaja
03:48
for people in the financial services industry
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tim ljudima iz financijske industrije
03:51
that will have them more interested
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koji će ih zainteresirati
03:53
in serving the long-term interests
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da služe dugoročnim interesima
03:55
even of their own companies,
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čak i njihovih kompanija,
03:57
rather than securing short-term profits.
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umjesto da osiguravaju kratkoročne profite.
04:01
So if we find just the right incentives,
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Dakle ako pronađemo prave poticaje,
04:03
they'll do the right thing -- as I said -- selfishly,
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oni će napraviti pravu stvar -- kao što sam rekao -- sebično,
04:06
and if we come up with the right rules and regulations,
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i ako osmislimo odgovarajuća pravila i propise,
04:09
they won't drive us all over a cliff.
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neće nas sve gurnuti preko ivice ponora.
04:12
And Ken [Sharpe] and I certainly know
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I Ken [Sharpe] i ja svakako znamo
04:15
that you need to reign in the bankers.
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da morate zauzdati bankare.
04:18
If there is a lesson to be learned from the financial collapse
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Ako postoji lekcija koja se mora naučiti iz financijskog kolapsa
04:21
it is that.
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onda je to ta.
04:23
But what we believe,
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Ali ono što mi vjerujemo,
04:25
and what we argue in the book,
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i ono što argumentiramo u knjizi,
04:27
is that there is no set of rules,
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jest da ne postoji niz pravila,
04:30
no matter how detailed,
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bez obzira koliko detaljna bila,
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no matter how specific,
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bez obzira koliko specifična,
04:34
no matter how carefully monitored
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bez obzira koliko pažljivo budu praćena
04:36
and enforced,
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i nametnuta,
04:38
there is no set of rules
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ne postoji set pravila
04:40
that will get us what we need.
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koji će nam dati ono što trebamo.
04:42
Why? Because bankers are smart people.
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Zašto? Jer su bankari pametni ljudi.
04:46
And, like water,
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I, poput vode,
04:48
they will find cracks
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oni će pronaći pukotine
04:50
in any set of rules.
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u svakom nizu pravila.
04:53
You design a set of rules that will make sure
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Trebate dizajnirati niz pravila koja će osigurati
04:56
that the particular reason
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da se partikularni razlog
04:58
why the financial system "almost-collapse"
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zbog kojeg je financijski sustav skoro propao
05:00
can't happen again.
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ne može dogoditi opet.
05:02
It is naive beyond description
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Neopisivo je naivno
05:04
to think that having blocked
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misliti da ako ste blokirali
05:06
this source of financial collapse,
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taj uzrok financijskog kraha,
05:08
you have blocked all possible sources of financial collapse.
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da ste blokirali sve moguće izvore financijskog kraha.
05:11
So it's just a question of waiting for the next one
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Dakle to je jednostavno pitanje čekanja slijedećeg
05:14
and then marveling at how we could have been so stupid
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i onda ćemo se ponovno pitati kako smo mogli biti tako glupi
05:17
as not to protect ourselves against that.
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da se nismo zaštitili od toga.
05:20
What we desperately need,
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Ono što mi očajnički trebamo,
05:22
beyond, or along with, better rules
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više, ili uz, bolja pravila
05:25
and reasonably smart incentives,
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i pametnije poticaje,
05:27
is we need virtue.
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jest da nam je potrebna vrlina,
05:30
We need character.
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potreban nam je karakter,
05:32
We need people who want to do the right thing.
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potrebni su nam ljudi koji žele napraviti pravu stvar.
05:35
And in particular,
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A posebno,
05:37
the virtue that we need most of all
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vrlina koja nam treba više od svih
05:40
is the virtue that Aristotle called
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jest vrlina koju Aristotel naziva
05:42
"practical wisdom."
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praktična mudrost.
05:45
Practical wisdom
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Praktična mudrost
05:47
is the moral will
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jest moralno htjenje
05:49
to do the right thing
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da se napravi prava stvar
05:51
and the moral skill
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i moralna vještina
05:53
to figure out what the right thing is.
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kako bi se osmislilo što prava stvar jest.
05:56
So Aristotle was very interested in watching
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Aristotel je bio jako zainteresiran promatrati
05:59
how the craftsmen around him worked.
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kako zanatlije oko njega rade.
06:02
And he was impressed
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I bio je impresioniran
06:04
at how they would improvise
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načinom na koji improviziraju
06:06
novel solutions to novel problems --
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nova rješenja na nove probleme --
06:08
problems that they hadn't anticipated.
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probleme koje nisu anticipirali.
06:10
So one example is he sees these stonemasons
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Jedan je primjer gdje vidi te klesare
06:12
working on the Isle of Lesbos,
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koji rade na otoku Lesbos,
06:15
and they need to measure out
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i oni moraju izmjeriti
06:17
round columns.
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okrugle stupove.
06:19
Well if you think about it,
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Ako razmislite o tome,
06:21
it's really hard to measure out round columns using a ruler.
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stvarno je teško izmjeriti okrugle stupove koristeći ravnalo.
06:24
So what do they do?
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Dakle, što su oni napravili?
06:26
They fashion a novel solution to the problem.
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Osmislili su novo rješenje problema.
06:29
They created a ruler that bends,
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Kreirali su ravnalo koje se savija,
06:32
what we would call these days a tape measure --
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ono što bismo danas nazivali krojačkim metrom --
06:35
a flexible rule,
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fleksibilno pravilo,
06:37
a rule that bends.
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pravilo koje se savija.
06:39
And Aristotle said,
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I Aristotel je rekao,
06:41
"Hah, they appreciated that sometimes
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oni su procijenili da ponekad
06:44
to design rounded columns,
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kako bi kreirao okrugle stupove,
06:47
you need to bend the rule."
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moraš saviti pravila.
06:50
And Aristotle said
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I Aristotel je rekao
06:52
often in dealing with other people,
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kako često dok radimo s ljudima,
06:55
we need to bend the rules.
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moramo saviti pravila.
06:58
Dealing with other people
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Rad s drugim ljudima
07:00
demands a kind of flexibility
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zahtjeva neku vrstu fleksibilnosti
07:03
that no set of rules can encompass.
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koju niti jedan niz pravila ne može obuhvatiti.
07:06
Wise people know when and how
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Mudri ljudi znaju kada i kako
07:08
to bend the rules.
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saviti pravila.
07:10
Wise people know how to improvise.
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Mudri ljudi znaju kako improvizirati.
07:13
The way my co-author , Ken, and I talk about it,
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Način na koji moj ko-autor, Ken, i ja to vidimo,
07:16
they are kind of like jazz musicians.
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jest da su oni neka vrsta jazz muzičara;
07:18
The rules are like the notes on the page,
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pravila su poput nota na stranici,
07:20
and that gets you started,
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i ona vas pokrenu,
07:22
but then you dance around the notes on the page,
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ali onda plešete oko nota na stranici,
07:25
coming up with just the right combination
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dolazeći s pravom kombinacijom
07:27
for this particular moment
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za taj posebni trenutak
07:29
with this particular set of fellow players.
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s tim posebinm nizom kolega svirača.
07:32
So for Aristotle,
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Dakle, za Aristotela,
07:34
the kind
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ta vrsta
07:37
of rule-bending,
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savijanja pravila,
07:40
rule exception-finding and improvisation
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pronalaženja izuzetaka i improvizacije
07:43
that you see in skilled craftsmen
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koju vidite kod vještih zanatlija
07:45
is exactly what you need
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je točno što vam treba
07:47
to be a skilled moral craftsman.
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kako biste bili vješti moralni zanatlija.
07:50
And in interactions with people,
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I u interakciji s ljudima,
07:52
almost all the time,
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gotovo uvijek,
07:54
it is this kind of flexibility that is required.
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ta je vrsta fleksibilnosti nužna.
07:56
A wise person knows when to bend the rules.
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Mudra osoba zna kada treba saviti pravila.
07:59
A wise person knows when to improvise.
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Mudra osoba zna kada treba improvizirati.
08:01
And most important,
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I najvažnije,
08:03
a wise person does this improvising and rule-bending
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mudra osoba improvizira i savija pravila
08:06
in the service of the right aims.
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u službi pravih ciljeva.
08:10
If you are a rule-bender and an improviser
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Ako ste vi onaj koji savija pravila i improvizira
08:13
mostly to serve yourself,
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kako biste služili sebi,
08:15
what you get is ruthless manipulation of other people.
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ono što dobijete jest nemilosrdna manipulacija drugih ljudi.
08:18
So it matters that you do this wise practice
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Zato je važno da ovo mudro prakticirate
08:20
in the service of others
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kako biste služili drugima
08:22
and not in the service of yourself.
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a ne sebi.
08:24
And so the will to do the right thing
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I želja da napravite pravu stvar
08:27
is just as important as the moral skill
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je jednako važna kao i moralna vještina
08:29
of improvisation
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improvizacije
08:31
and exception-finding.
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i pronalaženja izuzetaka.
08:33
Together they comprise practical wisdom,
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Zajedno oni obuhvaćaju praktičnu mudrost,
08:36
which Aristotle thought
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za koju je Aristotel mislio
08:38
was the master virtue.
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da je majstorska vrlina.
08:40
So I'll give you an example
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Dati ću vam primjer
08:42
of wise practice in action.
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mudre prakse u akciji.
08:44
It's the case of Michael.
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To je slučaj Michaela.
08:47
Michael's a young guy.
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Michael je mladi dečko.
08:49
He had a pretty low-wage job.
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Imao je prilično slabo plaćeni posao.
08:51
He was supporting his wife and a child,
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Brinuo se o ženi i djetetu,
08:54
and the child was going to parochial school.
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i djete mu je išlo u župnu školu.
08:56
Then he lost his job.
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Onda je izgubio posao.
08:59
He panicked
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Počeo je paničariti
09:01
about being able to support his family.
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hoće li biti i dalje sposoban uzdržavati obitelj.
09:04
One night, he drank a little too much,
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Jedne noći, malo je više popio,
09:07
and he robbed a cab driver --
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i orobio je vozača taksija --
09:09
stole 50 dollars.
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ukravši 50$.
09:11
He robbed him at gunpoint.
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Orobio ga je pištoljem.
09:13
It was a toy gun.
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Bila je to igračka.
09:16
He got caught. He got tried.
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Uhvatili su ga, došao je na suđenje,
09:19
He got convicted.
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i osuđen je.
09:21
The Pennsylvania sentencing guidelines
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Pennsylvanijske upute za izricanje kazne
09:24
required a minimum sentence for a crime like this
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zahtjevaju minimalnu kaznu za ovakav zločin
09:27
of two years, 24 months.
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od dvije godine, 24 mjeseca.
09:29
The judge on the case, Judge Lois Forer
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Sutkinja na slučaju, sutkinja Lois Forer
09:32
thought that this made no sense.
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mislila je kako to nema smisla.
09:35
He had never committed a crime before.
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Nikada prije toga nije počinio zločin.
09:38
He was a responsible husband and father.
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Bio je odgovoran muž i otac.
09:41
He had been faced with desperate circumstances.
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Bio je suočen s beznadnim okolnostima.
09:43
All this would do is wreck a family.
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Sve što bi se time postiglo jest da bi se uništila obitelj.
09:46
And so she improvised a sentence -- 11 months,
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I tako je ona improvizirala kaznu -- 11 mjeseci.
09:49
and not only that,
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I ne samo to,
09:51
but release every day to go to work.
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već ga je pustila da svaki dan ide na posao.
09:53
Spend your night in jail, spend your day holding down a job.
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Provedi noć u zatvoru, a dan tako da zadržiš posao.
09:56
He did. He served out his sentence.
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I je. Odslužio je kaznu.
09:59
He made restitution
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Vratio se iz zatvora
10:01
and found himself a new job.
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i pronašao si novi posao.
10:03
And the family was united.
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I obitelj je ostala ujedinjena.
10:06
And it seemed on the road
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I činilo se kako će imati
10:08
to some sort of a decent life --
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neku vrstu pristojnog života --
10:11
a happy ending to a story
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sretan završetak priče
10:14
involving wise improvisation
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koji uključuje pametnu improvizaciju
10:16
from a wise judge.
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od pametne sutkinje.
10:19
But it turned out
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Ali ispostavilo se
10:22
the prosecutor was not happy
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kako tužitelj nije zadovoljan
10:25
that Judge Forer ignored the sentencing guidelines
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da je sutkinja ignorirala direktive o kažnjavanju
10:28
and sort of invented her own,
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i na neki način osmislila svoje,
10:30
and so he appealed.
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i tako je uložio žalbu.
10:33
And he asked for the mandatory minimum sentence
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I zatražio obveznu minimalnu kaznu
10:36
for armed robbery.
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za oružanu pljačku.
10:38
He did after all have a toy gun.
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Ipak je imao igračku oružje.
10:41
The mandatory minimum sentence for armed robbery
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Obvezna minimalna kazna za oružanu pljačku
10:43
is five years.
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je pet godina.
10:46
He won the appeal.
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Dobio je na prizivu.
10:48
Michael was sentenced to five years in prison.
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Michael je bio osuđen na pet godina zatvora.
10:52
Judge Forer had to follow the law.
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Sutkinja Forer se morala držati zakona.
10:56
And by the way, this appeal went through
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I uz put, žalba je uložena
10:58
after he had finished serving his sentence,
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nakon što je odslužio svoju kaznu,
11:00
so he was out and working at a job
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tako da je bio vani i radio svoj posao
11:03
and taking care of his family
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i brinuo se o obitelji
11:05
and he had to go back into jail.
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i tako je morao nazad u zatvor.
11:07
Judge Forer did what she was required to do,
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Sutkinja Forer je napravila ono što je zakon tražio,
11:10
and then she quit the bench.
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i onda je dala otkaz.
11:14
And Michael disappeared.
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A Michael je nestao.
11:18
So that is an example,
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Dakle to je jedan primjer,
11:20
both of wisdom in practice
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mudrosti u praksi
11:22
and the subversion of wisdom
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i subverzije mudrosti
11:24
by rules that are meant, of course, to make things better.
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od strane pravila koju su zamišljena, naravno, da učine stvari boljima.
11:27
Now consider Ms. Dewey.
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Sada razmislite o gđi. Dewey.
11:29
Ms. Dewey's a teacher in a Texas elementary school.
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Gđa. Dewey je učiteljica u teksaškoj osnovnoj školi.
11:32
She found herself listening to a consultant one day
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Jednoga dana je slušala konzultanta
11:35
who was trying to help teachers
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koji je pokušao pomoći učiteljima
11:37
boost the test scores of the kids,
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da poboljšaju rezultate testova djece,
11:39
so that the school
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kako bi škola
11:41
would reach the elite category
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ušla u elitnu kategoriju
11:44
in percentage of kids passing big tests.
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po postotku djece koja su prolazila veliki test.
11:46
All these schools in Texas compete with one another
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Sve te škole u Teksasu se natječu jedna s drugom
11:48
to achieve these milestones,
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kako bi postigle te ciljeve,
11:50
and there are bonuses and various other treats
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i postoje bonusi i razne druge pogodnosti
11:53
that come if you beat the other schools.
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koje dolaze ako pobjedite druge škole.
11:56
So here was the consultant's advice:
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Dakle, tu je konzultantov savjet:
11:59
first, don't waste your time on kids
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prvo, ne trošite svoje vrijeme na djecu
12:02
who are going to pass the test no matter what you do.
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koja će proći test bez obzira na to što učinili.
12:06
Second, don't waste your time
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Drugo, ne trošite svoje vrijeme
12:08
on kids who can't pass the test
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na djecu koja ne mogu proći test
12:11
no matter what you do.
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bez obzira na to što učinili.
12:13
Third, don't waste your time
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Treće, nemojte trošiti svoje vrijeme
12:15
on kids who moved into the district
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na djecu koja su se preselila u okrug
12:18
too late for their scores to be counted.
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prekasno da se njihovi rezultati računaju.
12:21
Focus all of your time and attention
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Fokusirajte svo svoje vrijeme i pažnju
12:24
on the kids who are on the bubble,
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na djecu koja su na rubu uspjeha,
12:27
the so-called "bubble kids" --
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takozvanu nadarenu djecu --
12:29
kids where your intervention
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na djecu koju vaša intervencija
12:31
can get them just maybe over the line
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može podići iznad praga
12:33
from failing to passing.
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od pada do prolaza.
12:35
So Ms. Dewey heard this,
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Tako je gđa. Dewey to čula,
12:37
and she shook her head in despair
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i protresla glavom u očaju
12:40
while fellow teachers were sort of cheering each other on
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dok su se kolege učitelji međusobno bodrili
12:43
and nodding approvingly.
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i klimali odobravajuće.
12:45
It's like they were about to go play a football game.
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Činilo se kao da će igrati nogometnu utakmicu.
12:47
For Ms. Dewey,
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Gđa. Dewey,
12:49
this isn't why she became a teacher.
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nije zbog ovoga postala učiteljicom.
12:52
Now Ken and I are not naive,
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Ken i ja nismo naivni,
12:54
and we understand that you need to have rules.
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i razumijemo da morate imati pravila.
12:57
You need to have incentives.
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Morate imati poticaje.
12:59
People have to make a living.
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Ljudi moraju zaraditi za život.
13:01
But the problem
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Ali problem
13:03
with relying on rules and incentives
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u tome da se pouzdate u pravila i poticaje
13:05
is that they demoralize
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jest da ona demoraliziraju
13:08
professional activity,
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profesionalnu aktivnost.
13:10
and they demoralize professional activity
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I demoraliziraju profesionalnu aktivnost
13:12
in two senses.
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na dva načina.
13:14
First, they demoralize the people
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Prvo, demoraliziraju ljude
13:16
who are engaged in the activity.
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koji su uključeni u aktivnost.
13:18
Judge Forer quits,
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Sutkinja Forer je dala otkaz,
13:20
and Ms. Dewey in completely disheartened.
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a gđa. Dewey je bila potpuno obeshrabrena.
13:22
And second,
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I drugo,
13:24
they demoralize the activity itself.
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oni demoraliziraju aktivnost samu po sebi.
13:26
The very practice is demoralized,
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Sama profesija je demoralizirana,
13:29
and the practitioners are demoralized.
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i praktičari su demoralizirani.
13:31
It creates people --
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To stvara ljude --
13:33
when you manipulate incentives to get people to do the right thing --
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kada manipulirate poticajima kako biste dobili ljude da rade prave stvari --
13:36
it creates people
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to stvara ljude
13:38
who are addicted to incentives.
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koji su ovisni o poticajima.
13:40
That is to say, it creates people
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To znači, da stvara ljude
13:42
who only do things for incentives.
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koji rade stvari samo za poticaje.
13:44
Now the striking thing about this
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Frapantna stvar o ovome je
13:46
is that psychologists have known this
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da su psiholozi znali za to
13:48
for 30 years.
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30 godina.
13:50
Psychologists have known
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Psiholozi su znali
13:52
about the negative consequences of incentivizing everything
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o negativnim posljedicama poticanja svega
13:55
for 30 years.
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30 godina.
13:57
We know that if you reward kids for drawing pictures,
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Znamo da ako nagradite djecu za crtanje crteža,
14:00
they stop caring about the drawing
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prestanu željeti crtati
14:02
and care only about the reward.
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i žele samo nagradu.
14:04
If you reward kids for reading books,
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Ako nagradite djecu zbog čitanja knjiga
14:06
they stop caring about what's in the books
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prestati će se brinuti o tome što je u knjigama
14:09
and only care about how long they are.
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i samo će brinuti o tome koliko su dugačke.
14:11
If you reward teachers for kids' test scores,
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Ako nagradite učitelje za rezultate djece na testovima
14:14
they stop caring about educating
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oni se prestanu brinuti za edukaciju
14:16
and only care about test preparation.
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i brinuti će se samo za pripremu testova.
14:18
If you were to reward doctors
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Ako ćete nagraditi doktore
14:20
for doing more procedures --
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za više operacija --
14:22
which is the current system -- they would do more.
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a tako trenutno sustav funkcionira -- oni će ih obavljati više.
14:24
If instead you reward doctors for doing fewer procedures,
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Ako umjesto toga nagradite doktore za čim manje procedura
14:27
they will do fewer.
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oni će ih imati manje.
14:29
What we want, of course,
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Ono što želimo, naravno,
14:31
is doctors who do just the right amount of procedures
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jesu doktori koji će imati pravu količinu procedura
14:33
and do the right amount for the right reason --
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i odraditi pravu količinu zbog pravih razloga --
14:36
namely, to serve the welfare of their patients.
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konkretno, služiti dobrobiti svojih pacijenata.
14:39
Psychologists have known this for decades,
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Psiholozi znaju za to desetljećima,
14:41
and it's time for policymakers
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i vrijeme je da oni koji odlučuju
14:44
to start paying attention
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počnu obraćati pažnju
14:46
and listen to psychologists a little bit,
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i slušati malo psihologe,
14:49
instead of economists.
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umjesto ekonomista.
14:52
And it doesn't have to be this way.
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I sve to ne mora biti tako.
14:54
We think, Ken and I, that there are real sources of hope.
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Mi mislimo, Ken i ja, kako postoje izvori nade.
14:57
We identify one set of people
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Identificirali smo grupu ljudi
14:59
in all of these practices
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u svim tim zanimanjima
15:01
who we call canny outlaws.
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koje nazivamo lukavim izgnanicima.
15:03
These are people
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To su ljudi
15:05
who, being forced to operate
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koji, prisiljeni operirati
15:08
in a system that demands rule-following
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u sustavu koji zahtjeva potpuno praćenje pravila
15:10
and creates incentives,
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i kreira poticaje,
15:12
find away around the rules,
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pronalaze put zaobilazeći ta pravila,
15:14
find a way to subvert the rules.
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pronalaze put rušeći pravila.
15:17
So there are teachers who have these scripts to follow,
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Postoje učitelji koji imaju te skripte koje prate,
15:19
and they know that if they follow these scripts, the kids will learn nothing.
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i znaju da ako prate te skripte, djeca neće ništa naučiti.
15:22
And so what they do is they follow the scripts,
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I ono što oni rade jest da prate skripte,
15:25
but they follow the scripts at double-time
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ali prate skripte duplo brže
15:28
and squirrel away little bits of extra time
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i pronalaze komadiće ekstra vremena
15:31
during which they teach in the way
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tijekom kojeg podučavaju na način
15:33
that they actually know is effective.
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za koji znaju da je učinkovit.
15:36
So these are little ordinary, everyday heroes,
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Dakle to su mali obični, svakodnevni heroji,
15:39
and they're incredibly admirable,
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i oni zaslužuju divljenje,
15:41
but there's no way that they can sustain this kind of activity
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ali nema načina da održe ovakvu vrstu aktivnosti
15:44
in the face of a system
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suočeni sa sustavom
15:46
that either roots them out
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koji ih ili odstranjuje
15:48
or grinds them down.
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ili ih ubija u pojam.
15:50
So canny outlaws are better than nothing,
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Dakle lukavi izgnanici su bolji od ničega,
15:52
but it's hard to imagine any canny outlaw
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ali je teško zamisliti nekoga takvoga
15:54
sustaining that for an indefinite period of time.
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koji se može održati u nedogled.
15:57
More hopeful
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Više nade nam daju
15:59
are people we call system-changers.
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oni ljudi koji mjenjaju sustav.
16:01
These are people who are looking
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To su oni ljudi koji ne gledaju
16:03
not to dodge the system's rules and regulations,
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kako se dodvoriti sustavu pravila i regulacija,
16:06
but to transform the system,
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već ga žele transformirati,
16:08
and we talk about several.
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i pričati ćemo o nekoliko njih.
16:10
One in particular
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Jedan posebno
16:12
is a judge named Robert Russell.
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jest sudac Robert Russell.
16:15
And one day he was faced
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I jednog dana se suočio
16:17
with the case of Gary Pettengill.
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sa slučajem Garya Pettengilla.
16:20
Pettengill was a 23-year-old vet
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Pettengill je bio 23-godišnji veteran
16:23
who had planned to make the army a career,
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983000
2000
koji je planirao napraviti karijeru u vojsci
16:25
but then he got a severe back injury in Iraq,
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2000
ali onda je imao tešku ozljedu leđa u Iraku,
16:27
and that forced him to take a medical discharge.
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i to ga je prisililo da zatraži medicinski otpust.
16:30
He was married, he had a third kid on the way,
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Bio je oženjen, i treće dijete mu je bilo na putu,
16:33
he suffered from PTSD, in addition to the bad back,
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patio je od PTSP-a, u dodatku na loša leđa,
16:36
and recurrent nightmares,
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i povremene noćne more,
16:38
and he had started using marijuana
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i počeo je koristiti marihuanu
16:40
to ease some of the symptoms.
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kako bi si olakšao neke od tih simptoma.
16:43
He was only able to get part-time work because of his back,
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Zbog leđa je mogao dobiti samo poslove sa skraćenim radnim vremenom,
16:46
and so he was unable to earn enough to put food on the table
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i tako je bilo nemoguće zaraditi dovoljno da bi se stavila hrana na stol
16:49
and take care of his family.
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i zbrinula obitelj.
16:51
So he started selling marijuana.
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I tako je poćeo prodavati marihuanu.
16:53
He was busted in a drug sweep.
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I bio je uhvaćen u jednoj čistki.
16:56
His family was kicked out of their apartment,
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Njegova obitelj je bila izbačena iz stana,
16:58
and the welfare system
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a centar za socijalnu skrb
17:00
was threatening to take away his kids.
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se prijetio kako će i oduzeti djecu.
17:02
Under normal sentencing procedures,
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Po normalnim procedurama za kažnjavanje,
17:04
Judge Russell would have had little choice
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sudac Russell bi imao malo izbora
17:07
but to sentence Pettengill to serious jail-time
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nego osuditi Pettengilla na ozbiljno vrijeme u zatvoru
17:09
as a drug felon.
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pod optužbama za prodavanje droge.
17:12
But Judge Russell did have an alternative.
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Ali je sudac Russell imao alternativu.
17:15
And that's because he was in a special court.
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A to je zato jer je on bio na posebnom sudu.
17:18
He was in a court called the Veterans' Court.
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On je bio na sudu pod nazivom Sud veterana.
17:21
In the Veterans' Court --
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Na Sudu veterana --
17:23
this was the first of its kind in the United States.
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to je bio prvi takve vrste u SAD-u.
17:26
Judge Russell created the Veterans' Court.
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Sudac Russell je stvorio Sud veterana.
17:28
It was a court only for veterans
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To je bio sud samo za veterane
17:30
who had broken the law.
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koji su prekršili zakon.
17:33
And he had created it exactly because
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I stvorio ga je baš zbog
17:35
mandatory sentencing laws
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obveznih zakona o kažnjavanju
17:37
were taking the judgment out of judging.
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gdje je suđenje oduzeto sucima.
17:40
No one wanted non-violent offenders --
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Nitko nije želio nenasilne prekršitelje --
17:43
and especially non-violent offenders who were veterans to boot --
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a posebno nenasilne prekršitelje koji su bili veterani --
17:46
to be thrown into prison.
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baciti u zatvor.
17:48
They wanted to do something about what we all know,
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Željeli su napraviti nešto oko onoga što svi znamo,
17:51
namely the revolving door of the criminal justice system.
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točnije rotirajućih vrata sudskog sustava.
17:54
And what the Veterans' Court did,
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I ono što je Sud veterana učinio,
17:56
was it treated each criminal as an individual,
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jest da je tretirao svakog kriminalca posebno,
17:59
tried to get inside their problems,
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pokušao je uči u meritum problema,
18:02
tried to fashion responses to their crimes
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pokušao je povezati zločin s kaznom
18:05
that helped them to rehabilitate themselves,
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koji će omogučiti rehabilitaciju
18:07
and didn't forget about them once the judgment was made.
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i nije zaboravio zbog čega je uopće sudstvo nastalo.
18:10
Stayed with them, followed up on them,
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Ostanite uz njih, pratite ih,
18:13
made sure that they were sticking to whatever plan
447
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budite sigurni da se drže bilo kakvog plana
18:15
had been jointly developed
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koji je zajednički razvijen
18:17
to get them over the hump.
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kako bi izašli iz rupe.
18:19
There are now 22 cities
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Sada postoje 22 grada
18:21
that have Veterans' Courts like this.
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koji imaju Sudove veterana poput ovog.
18:23
Why has the idea spread?
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Zašto se ta ideja raširila?
18:26
Well, one reason is
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Jedan razlog je
18:28
that Judge Russell
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što sudac Russell
18:30
has now seen 108 vets
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je do sada vidio 108 veterana
18:32
in his Veterans' Court
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u njegovom Sudu za veterane
18:34
as of February of this year,
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od veljače ove godine,
18:36
and out of 108,
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i od njih 108,
18:38
guess how many have gone back through
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pogodite koliko njih su prošli kroz
18:40
the revolving door of justice
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rotirajuća vrata pravde
18:42
into prison.
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u zatvor.
18:44
None. None.
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Nitko. Nitko.
18:46
Anyone would glom onto
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Svatko bi poželio
18:49
a criminal justice system
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takav pravni sustav
18:51
that has this kind of a record.
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koji ima ovakve rezultate.
18:53
So here's is a system-changer, and it seems to be catching.
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Dakle imamo kandidata koji mijenja sustav i čini se da sustav to podržava.
18:56
There's a banker
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Postoji bankar
18:58
who created a for-profit community bank
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koji je kreirao profitnu banku za zajednicu
19:00
that encouraged bankers -- I know this is hard to believe --
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koja potiče bankare -- znam da je to teško vjerovati --
19:03
encouraged bankers who worked there to do well
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potiče bankare koji tamo rade da rade dobro
19:06
by doing good for their low-income clients.
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tako što će učiniti nešto dobro za klijente s nižim primanjima.
19:09
The bank helped finance the rebuilding
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Banka je pomogla u ponovnoj izgradnji
19:12
of what was otherwise a dying community.
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nečega što je bila umiruća zajednica.
19:15
Though their loan recipients were high-risk by ordinary standards,
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Premda su njihovi klijenti bili visokorizični po uobičajenim standardima,
19:18
the default rate was extremely low.
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stope ljudi koji nisu vraćali kredite je bila izuzetno niska.
19:21
The bank was profitable.
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Banka je bila profitablina.
19:24
The bankers stayed with their loan recipients.
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Bankari su ostali sa svojim klijentima.
19:26
They didn't make loans and then sell the loans.
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Oni nisu stvarali kredite i onda ih prodavali.
19:28
They serviced the loans.
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Oni su servisirali kredite.
19:30
They made sure that their loan recipients
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Pobrinuli su se da njihovi klijenti
19:32
were staying up with their payments.
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plaćaju svoje rate.
19:35
Banking hasn't always been
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Bankarstvo nije uvijek bilo
19:38
the way we read about it now in the newspapers.
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napravljeno na način o kojem možemo sada čitati u novinama.
19:42
Even Goldman Sachs
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Čak Goldman Sachs
19:44
once used to serve clients,
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je nekada služio klijentima,
19:47
before it turned into an institution
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prije nego što se pretvorio u instituciju
19:50
that serves only itself.
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koja služi samoj sebi.
19:52
Banking wasn't always this way,
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Bankarstvo nije uvijek bilo ovakvo
19:54
and it doesn't have to be this way.
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i ne mora biti takvim.
19:59
So there are examples like this in medicine --
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Postoje slični primjeri u medicini --
20:02
doctors at Harvard
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doktori na Harvardu
20:04
who are trying to transform medical education,
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koji pokušavaju transformirati medicinsku edukaciju,
20:06
so that you don't get a kind of ethical erosion
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kako ne bi dobili etičku eroziju
20:08
and loss of empathy,
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i gubitak empatije,
20:10
which characterizes most medical students
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koji karakteriziraju većinu studenata medicine
20:12
in the course of their medical training.
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u medicinskom obrazovanju.
20:14
And the way they do it is to give third-year medical students
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I način na koji to rade jest da daju studentima treće godine
20:17
patients who they follow for an entire year.
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pacijente koje će oni pratiti tijekom cijele godine.
20:19
So the patients are not organ systems,
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Tako pacijenti nisu sustavi organa,
20:21
and they're not diseases;
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i oni nisu bolesti;
20:23
they're people, people with lives.
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oni su ljudi, ljudi sa životima.
20:25
And in order to be an effective doctor,
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I kako biste postali učinkoviti doktor,
20:27
you need to treat people who have lives and not just disease.
503
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morate tretirati ljude koji imaju živote a ne samo bolesti.
20:30
In addition to which there's an enormous amount of back and forth,
504
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Pored toga postoji jako puno posla oko,
20:33
mentoring of one student by another,
505
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mentoriranja jednog studenta od strane drugog,
20:35
of all the students by the doctors,
506
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svih studenata od strane doktora,
20:38
and the result is a generation -- we hope -- of doctors
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i rezultat je generacija -- nadamo se -- doktora
20:41
who do have time for the people they treat.
508
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koji imaju vremena za ljude koje liječe.
20:43
We'll see.
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Vidjeti ćemo.
20:45
So there are lots of examples like this that we talk about.
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Postoji jako puno primjera o kojima govorimo.
20:48
Each of them shows that it is possible
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Svaki od njih pokazuje kako je moguće
20:50
to build on and nurture character
512
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izgraditi i njegovati karakter
20:53
and keep a profession
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i zadržati profesiju
20:55
true to its proper mission --
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koja će biti iskrena svojoj misiji --
20:57
what Aristotle would have called its proper telos.
515
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onome što bi Aristotel nazivao svojim pravim telosom.
21:01
And Ken and I believe
516
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I Ken i ja vjerujemo
21:03
that this is what practitioners actually want.
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da je to što praktičari stvarno žele.
21:06
People want to be allowed
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Ljudi žele da im se dozvoli
21:08
to be virtuous.
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da budu moralni.
21:10
They want to have permission to do the right thing.
520
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Žele imati dozvolu da mogu učiniti pravu stvar.
21:13
They don't want to feel
521
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Ne žele se osjećati
21:15
like they need to take a shower
522
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da se moraju otuširati
21:17
to get the moral grime off their bodies everyday
523
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kako bi saprali svakodnevne moralne dvojbe
21:20
when they come home from work.
524
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kada se vrate kući s posla.
21:23
Aristotle thought that practical wisdom
525
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Aristotel je mislio kako je praktična mudrost
21:25
was the key to happiness,
526
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ključ sreće,
21:27
and he was right.
527
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i bio je u pravu.
21:30
There's now a lot of research being done in psychology
528
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Danas se radi jako puno istraživanja u prihologiji,
21:33
on what makes people happy,
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o tome što ljude čini sretnima,
21:35
and the two things that jump out in study after study --
530
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i dvije stvari koje iskaču u svim studijama --
21:38
I know this will come as a shock to all of you --
531
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znam da će vas to šokirati --
21:40
the two things that matter most to happiness
532
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dvije stvari koje su najviše povezane sa srećom
21:43
are love and work.
533
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su ljubav i posao.
21:46
Love: managing successfully
534
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Ljubav: uspješno upravljanje
21:49
relations with the people who are close to you
535
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odnosima s ljudima koji su vam bliski
21:51
and with the communities of which you are a part.
536
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i zajednicima čiji ste dio.
21:54
Work: engaging in activities
537
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Rad: angažiranje u aktivnosti
21:57
that are meaningful and satisfying.
538
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koje su svrsishodne i zadovoljavajuće.
22:00
If you have that, good close relations with other people,
539
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Ako imate to, prisan odnos s drugim ljudima,
22:03
work that's meaningful and fulfilling,
540
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posao koji je svrsishodan i ispunjavajući,
22:06
you don't much need anything else.
541
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ne treba vam puno toga.
22:09
Well, to love well and to work well,
542
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Da biste ljubili dobro i radili dobro,
22:12
you need wisdom.
543
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trebate mudrost.
22:14
Rules and incentives don't tell you
544
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Pravila i poticaji vam neće reći
22:16
how to be a good friend, how to be a good parent,
545
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kako da budete dobar prijatelj, kako da budete dobar roditelj,
22:19
how to be a good spouse,
546
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kako da budete dobra žena,
22:21
or how to be a good doctor or a good lawyer
547
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kako da budete dobar doktor i dobar odvjetnik
22:23
or a good teacher.
548
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ili dobar učitelj.
22:25
Rules and incentives
549
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Pravila i poticaji
22:27
are no substitutes for wisdom.
550
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nisu zamjena za mudrost.
22:29
Indeed, we argue,
551
1349000
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Stvarno, uvjeravamo vas,
22:31
there is no substitute for wisdom.
552
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nema zamjene za mudrost.
22:34
And so practical wisdom
553
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I tako praktična mudrost
22:36
does not require
554
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ne zahtjeva
22:38
heroic acts of self-sacrifice
555
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herojske činove samo-žrtvovanja
22:41
on the part of practitioners.
556
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praktičara.
22:44
In giving us the will and the skill
557
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Dajući nam želju i vještinu
22:46
to do the right thing -- to do right by others --
558
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da napravimo dobru stvar -- da radimo dobro drugima --
22:49
practical wisdom also gives us
559
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praktična mudrost nam daje
22:51
the will and the skill
560
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želju i vještinu
22:53
to do right by ourselves.
561
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da radimo dobro sami po sebi.
22:56
Thanks.
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Hvala.
22:58
(Applause)
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(Pljesak)
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Barry Schwartz - PsychologistBarry Schwartz studies the link between economics and psychology, offering startling insights into modern life. Lately, working with Ken Sharpe, he's studying wisdom.
Why you should listen
In his 2004 book The Paradox of Choice, Barry Schwartz tackles one of the great mysteries of modern life: Why is it that societies of great abundance — where individuals are offered more freedom and choice (personal, professional, material) than ever before — are now witnessing a near-epidemic of depression? Conventional wisdom tells us that greater choice is for the greater good, but Schwartz argues the opposite: He makes a compelling case that the abundance of choice in today's western world is actually making us miserable.
Infinite choice is paralyzing, Schwartz argues, and exhausting to the human psyche. It leads us to set unreasonably high expectations, question our choices before we even make them and blame our failures entirely on ourselves. His relatable examples, from consumer products (jeans, TVs, salad dressings) to lifestyle choices (where to live, what job to take, who and when to marry), underscore this central point: Too much choice undermines happiness.
Schwartz's previous research has addressed morality, decision-making and the varied inter-relationships between science and society. Before Paradox he published The Costs of Living, which traces the impact of free-market thinking on the explosion of consumerism -- and the effect of the new capitalism on social and cultural institutions that once operated above the market, such as medicine, sports, and the law.
Both books level serious criticism of modern western society, illuminating the under-reported psychological plagues of our time. But they also offer concrete ideas on addressing the problems, from a personal and societal level.
Schwartz is the author of the TED Book, Why We Work.
Barry Schwartz | Speaker | TED.com