TED2008
Joshua Klein: A thought experiment on the intelligence of crows
Joshua Klein despre inteligenta ciorilor
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Hacker-ul si scriitorul Joshua Klein este fascinat de ciori (ati observat vreodata stralucirea inteligentei in ochii lor mici si negrii?). Dupa un lung studiu amator a comportamentului corvidelor, a inventat o masina eleganta care ar putea forma o noua legatura intre animal si om.
Joshua Klein - Hacker
Joshua Klein is a fervent hacker of all things, including wet, pulpy systems like animals and people and the way they behave. Full bio
Joshua Klein is a fervent hacker of all things, including wet, pulpy systems like animals and people and the way they behave. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:18
How many of you have seen the Alfred Hitchcock film "The Birds"?
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Cati dintre voi ati vazut filmul lui Alfred Hitchcock, "Pasarile"?
00:21
Any of you get really freaked out by that?
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E cineva care chiar s-a speriat de el?
00:24
You might want to leave now.
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S-ar putea sa vreti sa plecati acum.
00:26
(Laughter)
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(Rasete)
00:27
So, this is a vending machine for crows.
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Deci acesta este un automat de vanzare pentru ciori.
00:29
And over the past few days, many of you have been asking me,
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Si in anii trecuti multi dintre voi m-ati intrebat:
00:31
"How did you come to this? How did you get started doing this?"
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"Cum ai venit cu ideea asta? Cum ai inceput sa faci asta?"
00:34
And it started, as with many great ideas,
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Si a inceput, la fel ca multe idei bune,
00:36
or many ideas you can't get rid of anyway,
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sau cel putin idei de care nu poti scapa oricum,
00:38
at a cocktail party.
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la o petrecere de cocktail.
00:39
About 10 years ago, I was at a cocktail party with a friend of mine,
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Acum aproximativ 10 ani, eram la o petrecere cu un prieten
00:42
and we're sitting there, and he was complaining about the crows
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si stateam acolo si el se plangea de ciorile
00:44
that he had seen that were all over his yard and making a big mess.
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pe care le vazuse peste tot in gradina sa si faceau mare mizerie.
00:48
And he was telling me that really, we ought to try and eradicate these things.
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Si imi spunea ca trebuie intr-adevar sa incercam sa eradicam chestiile astea.
00:50
We gotta kill them because they're making a mess.
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Trebuie sa le omoram pentru ca fac mizerie.
00:52
I said that was stupid,
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Am spus ca asta era stupid,
00:53
you know, maybe we should just train them to do something useful.
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stii, poate ca ar trebui doar sa le dresam sa faca ceva util.
00:55
And he said that was impossible.
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Si el a spus ca era imposibil.
00:58
And I'm sure I'm in good company in finding that tremendously annoying
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Si sunt sigur ca nu sunt singurul care gaseste foarte iritant
01:01
-- when someone tells you it's impossible.
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cand cineva ii spune ca e imposibil.
01:02
So, I spent the next 10 years reading about crows in my spare time.
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Deci am petrecut urmatorii 10 ani citind despre ciori in timpul meu liber.
01:06
(Laughter)
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(Rasete)
01:09
And after 10 years of this, my wife eventually said,
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Si dupa 10 ani de facut asta, sotia mea mi-a spus intr-un final:
01:11
"Look, you know, you gotta do this thing
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"Uite, stii, trebuie sa faci chestia asta
01:13
you've been talking about, and build the vending machine."
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despre care ai tot vorbit, si sa construiesti automatul."
01:15
So I did.
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Si l-am facut.
01:16
But part of the reason that I found this interesting
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Dar parte din motivul pentru care am crezut ca asta este interesant
01:18
is that I started noticing that we are
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e ca am inceput sa observ ca noi
01:20
very aware of all the species that are going
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suntem foarte constienti de speciile pe cale
01:22
extinct on the planet as a result of human habitation expansion,
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de disparitie ca rezultat a expansiunii habitatului uman,
01:24
and no one seems to be paying attention
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si nimeni nu pare sa dea atentie
01:27
to all the species that are actually living -- that are surviving.
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speciilor care de fapt traiesc - care supravietuiesc.
01:30
And I'm talking specifically about synanthropic species,
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Si vorbesc mai ales despre speciile sinantropice,
01:33
which are species that have adapted specifically for human ecologies,
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care sunt specii care s-au adaptat specific pentru ecologiile umane.
01:36
species like rats and cockroaches and crows.
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Specii ca sobolanii si gandacii si ciorile.
01:40
And as I started looking at them, I was finding that they had hyper-adapted.
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Si, cum am inceput sa le studiez, am gasit ca sunt hiper-adaptate.
01:43
They'd become extremely adept at living with us.
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Au devenit extrem de apte pentru a trai cu noi.
01:46
And in return, we just tried to kill them all the time.
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Si, in schimb, noi doar am incercat sa le omoram mereu.
01:50
And in doing so, we were breeding them for parasitism.
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Si, facand asta, le inmulteam pentru parazitism.
01:52
We were giving them all sorts of reasons to adapt new ways.
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Le dadeam tot felul de motive pentru a se adapta in feluri noi.
01:56
So, for example, rats are incredibly responsive breeders.
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De exemplu, sobolanii sunt incredibil de receptivi la inmultire.
01:59
And cockroaches, as anyone who's tried to get rid of them knows,
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Iar gandacii, dupa cum oricine care a incercat sa scape de ei stie,
02:02
have become really immune to the poisons that we're using.
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au devenit chiar imuni la otravurile pe care le folosim.
02:05
So, I thought, let's build something that's mutually beneficial.
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Deci, m-am gandit, hai sa construim ceva care e reciproc benefic.
02:08
Well, then let's build something that we can both benefit from,
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Ei bine, atunci hai sa construim ceva din care putem amandoi sa beneficiem
02:10
and find some way to make a new relationship with these species.
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si sa gasim o cale de a crea o noua relatie cu aceste specii.
02:13
And so I built the vending machine.
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Deci am construit automatul.
02:16
But the story of the vending machine is a little more interesting
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Dar povestea automatului e un pic mai interesanta
02:18
if you know more about crows.
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daca stii mai multe despre ciori.
02:20
It turns out that crows aren't just surviving with human beings --
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Se adevereste ca ciorile nu doar supravietuiesc cu oamenii -
02:22
they're actually really thriving.
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chiar prospera.
02:24
They're found everywhere on the planet except for the Arctic
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Se gasesc peste tot pe planeta in afara de Antarctica
02:26
and the southern tip of South America.
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si varful de sud din America de Sud.
02:28
And in all that area, they're only rarely found
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Si pe toata aria aceasta, doar rar se gasesc
02:31
breeding more than five kilometers away from human beings.
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traind la mai mult de cinci kilometri de oameni.
02:33
So we may not think about them,
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Deci s-ar putea sa nu ne gandim la ele,
02:35
but they're always around.
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dar ele sunt mereu prin preajma.
02:37
And not surprisingly, given the human population growth,
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Si, nesurprinzator, data fiind cresterea populatiei,
02:39
more than half of the human population is living in cities now.
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mai mult de jumatate din populatia umana traieste acum in orase.
02:42
And out of those, nine-tenths
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Si din aceia, noua zecimi
02:44
of the human growth population is occurring in cities.
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din cresterea populatiei are loc in orase.
02:46
We're seeing a population boom with crows.
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Vedem cum cresterea populatiei ciorilor a luat avant.
02:49
So bird counts are indicating that we might be seeing
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Deci numaratorile de pasari indica ceea ce ar putea fi
02:51
up to exponential growth in their numbers.
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pana la o crestere exponentiala in numarul lor.
02:53
So that's no great surprise.
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Deci nu e o mare surpriza.
02:56
But what was really interesting to me was to find out that
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Dar ceea ce chiar a fost interesant pentru mine a fost sa aflu ca
02:58
the birds were adapting in a pretty unusual way.
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pasarile se adaptau intr-un mod destul de neobisnuit.
03:01
And I'll give you an example of that.
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Si va voi da un exemplu.
03:04
So this is Betty. She's a New Caledonian crow.
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Deci aceasta este Betty. Ea este o cioara din Noua Caledonie.
03:07
And these crows use sticks in the wild
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Si aceste ciori, in salbaticie, folosesc betisoare
03:09
to get insects and whatnot out of pieces of wood.
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pentru a scoate insecte si alte chestii din bucati de lemn.
03:12
Here, she's trying to get a piece of meat out of a tube.
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Aici incearca sa scoata o bucata de carne dintr-un tub.
03:14
But the researchers had a problem.
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Dar cercetatorii au avut o problema.
03:16
They messed up and left just a stick of wire in there.
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Au facut o greseala si au lasat doar un bat de sarma acolo.
03:18
And she hadn't had the opportunity to do this before.
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Si ea nu a avut posibilitatea sa faca asta inainte.
03:21
You see, it wasn't working very well.
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Vedeti, nu functioneaza foarte bine.
03:24
So she adapted.
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Deci s-a adaptat.
03:26
Now this is completely unprompted. She had never seen this done before.
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Acum, acesta este complet spontan. Ea nu mai vazuse niciodata facandu-se asta.
03:30
No one taught her to bend this into a hook,
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Nimeni nu a invatat-o sa indoaie sarma ca un carlig;
03:32
had shown her how it could happen.
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nu i-a aratat ca s-ar putea intampla.
03:33
But she did it all on her own.
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Dar ea a facut asta de una singura.
03:35
So keep in mind that she's never seen this done.
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Deci tineti minte ca ea nu a vazut asta niciodata.
03:39
Right.
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Da.
03:41
(Laughter)
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(Rasete)
03:48
Yeah. All right.
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Da. In regula.
03:50
(Applause)
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(Aplauze)
03:53
That's the part where the researchers freak out.
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Deci asta e partea la care cercetatorii se sperie.
03:56
(Laughter)
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(Rasete)
03:58
So, it turns out we've been finding more and more
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Deci se face ca aflam din ce in ce mai mult
04:00
that crows are really, really intelligent.
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ca ciorile sunt foarte foarte inteligente.
04:01
Their brains are proportionate,
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Creierele lor sunt proportionale,
04:02
in the same proportion as chimpanzee brains are.
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in aceleasi proportii cu ale cimpanzeilor.
04:05
There are all kinds of anecdotes for different kinds of intelligence they have.
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Sunt tot felul de anecdote despre tipurile diferite de inteligenta pe care le au.
04:09
For example, in Sweden,
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De exemplu, in Suedia
04:11
crows will wait for fishermen to drop lines through holes in the ice.
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ciorile asteapta ca pescarii sa arunce unditele prin gauri in gheata.
04:13
And when the fishermen move off,
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Si dupa ce pescarii se dau la o parte,
04:15
the crows fly down, reel up the lines, and eat the fish or the bait.
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ciorile zboara jos, scot unditele, si mananca pestii sau momelile.
04:19
It's pretty annoying for the fishermen.
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E destul de enervant pentru pescari.
04:22
On an entirely different tack,
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Pe de alta parte,
04:23
at University of Washington, they, a few years ago,
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la Universitatea din Washington - acum cativa ani,
04:25
were doing an experiment where they captured some crows on campus.
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au facut un experiment in care au capturat cateva ciori din campus.
04:28
Some students went out and netted some crows,
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Cativa studenti mergeau afara si prindeau cateva ciori,
04:30
brought them in, and were -- weighed them, and measured them and whatnot,
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le aduceau inauntru si... le cantareau, le masurau si altele,
04:33
and then let them back out again.
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dupa care le lasau din nou afara.
04:34
And were entertained to discover
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Si au fost amuzati sa descopere
04:35
that for the rest of the week, these crows,
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ca pentru restul saptamanii, aceste ciori,
04:37
whenever these particular students walked around campus,
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de fiecare data cand acesti studenti mergeau prin campus,
04:39
these crows would caw at them,
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ciorile acelea croncaneau la ei
04:41
and run around and make their life kind of miserable.
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si zburau in jurul lor facandu-le viata destul de mizerabila.
04:44
They were significantly less entertained when this went on for the next week.
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Studentii au fost semnificativ mai putin amuzati cand situatia a continuat saptamana urmatoare.
04:48
And the next month. And after summer break.
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Si luna urmatoare. Si dupa vacanta de vara.
04:52
Until they finally graduated and left campus,
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Pana cand in sfarsit au absolvit si au plecat din campus -
04:54
and -- glad to get away, I'm sure --
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si, fericiti sa plece, sunt sigur -
04:56
came back sometime later, and found the crows still remembered them.
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s-au intors ceva mai tarziu si au aflat ca ciorile inca ii tineau minte.
04:59
So -- the moral being, don't piss off crows.
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Deci, morala este - nu scoateti ciorile din sarite.
05:02
So now, students at the University of Washington
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Iar acum, studentii de la Universitatea din Washington
05:06
that are studying these crows
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care studiaza aceste ciori
05:07
do so with a giant wig and a big mask.
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fac asta cu o peruca gigantica si o masca mare.
05:09
(Laughter)
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(Rasete)
05:12
It's fairly interesting.
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Este destul de interesant.
05:14
So we know that these crows are really smart,
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Deci acum stim ca aceste ciori sunt foarte destepte dar,
05:16
but the more I dug into this, the more I found
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pe masura ce ma afund in asta, gasesc mai mult
05:18
that they actually have an even more significant adaptation.
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ca ele au o adaptare chiar mai semnificativa.
05:23
Video: Crows have become highly skilled at
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Video: Ciorile au devenit foarte pricepute sa
05:25
making a living in these new urban environments.
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traiasca in aceste noi medii urbane.
05:29
In this Japanese city, they have devised a way of
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In acest oras japonez, au inventat un mod de a
05:32
eating a food that normally they can't manage:
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manca mancare pe care in mod normal nu ar putea-o obtine -
05:37
drop it among the traffic.
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sa o scape in trafic.
05:43
The problem now is collecting the bits,
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Problema acum este colectarea bucatilor
05:46
without getting run over.
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fara sa fie calcate.
05:48
Wait for the light to stop the traffic.
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Asteapta semaforul sa opreasca traficul.
06:02
Then, collect your cracked nut in safety.
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Apoi ia-ti nuca sparta in siguranta.
06:10
(Laughter)
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(Rasete)
06:11
(Applause)
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(Aplauze)
06:12
Joshua Klein: Yeah, yeah. Pretty interesting.
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Joshua Klen: Da, da. Destul de interesant.
06:14
So what's significant about this isn't that crows are using cars to crack nuts.
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Deci ce e important despre asta nu e ca ciorile folosesc masini sa sparga nuci.
06:17
In fact, that's old hat for crows.
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De fapt, asta e poveste veche pentru ciori.
06:19
This happened about 10 years ago
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Asta s-a intamplat acum vreo 10 ani
06:21
in a place called Sendai City, at a driving school
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intr-un loc numit Sendai City, la o scoala de sofat
06:24
in the suburbs of Tokyo.
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in suburbiile din Tokyo.
06:26
And since that time,
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Si de atunci,
06:27
all of the crows in the neighborhood are picking up this behavior.
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toate ciorile din cartier adopta acest comportament.
06:29
And now, every crow within five kilometers is standing by a sidewalk,
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Iar acum, fiecare cioara pe o raza de cinci kilometrii sta pe un trotuar
06:32
waiting to collect its lunch.
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asteptand sa-si adune pranzul.
06:35
So, they're learning from each other. And research bears this out.
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Deci invata unele de la altele. Si cercetarile confirma asta.
06:37
Parents seem to be teaching their young.
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Parintii par sa isi invete puii.
06:39
They've learned from their peers. They've learned from their enemies.
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Ei au invatat-o de la prietenii lor; au invatat-o de la inamicii lor.
06:43
If I have a little extra time, I'll tell you about a case of crow infidelity
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Daca am putin mai mult timp, va voi spune despre un caz de infidelitate cioreasca
06:46
that illustrates that nicely.
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care ilustreaza bine asta.
06:48
The point being that they've developed cultural adaptation.
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Ideea fiind ca au dezvoltat o adaptare culturala.
06:51
And as we heard yesterday,
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Si, dupa cum am auzit ieri,
06:53
that's the Pandora's box that's getting human beings in trouble,
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aceasta e Cutia Pandorei care pune probleme oamenilor,
06:55
and we're starting to see it with them.
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si incepem sa o vedem cu ele (ciorile).
06:57
They're able to very quickly and very flexibly adapt
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Sunt capabile sa se adapteze foarte repede si foarte flexibil
07:00
to new challenges and new resources in their environment,
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la noi provocari si noi resurse din mediul lor,
07:03
which is really useful if you live in a city.
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ceea ce e foarte folositor daca traiesti intr-un oras.
07:06
So we know that there's lots of crows.
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Deci stim ca sunt multe ciori.
07:08
We found out they're really smart, and we found out that they can teach each other.
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Am aflat ca sunt foarte destepte, si am aflat ca se pot invata unele pe altele.
07:11
And when all this became clear to me,
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Si cand asta mi-a fost clar,
07:13
I realized the only obvious thing to do is build a vending machine.
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am realizat ca singurul lucru de facut e sa construiesc un automat.
07:16
So that's what we did.
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Si asta am facut noi.
07:17
This is a vending machine for crows.
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Acesta este un automat pentru ciori.
07:19
And it uses Skinnerian training to shape their behavior over four stages.
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Foloseste dresarea Skinneriana pentru a le modela comportamentul in patru etape.
07:22
It's pretty simple.
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Este destul de simplu.
07:24
Basically, what happens is that we put this out in a field,
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Practic, se intampla in felul urmator: noi punem automatul afara pe un camp,
07:27
or someplace where there's lots of crows,
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sau un loc unde sunt multe ciori,
07:29
and we put coins and peanuts all around the base of the machine.
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si punem monede si alune de jur-imprejurul bazei masinii.
07:31
And crows eventually come by, and eat the peanuts
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Iar ciorile vin in final si mananca alunele
07:33
and get used to the machine being there.
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si se obisnuiesc ca masina sa fie acolo.
07:35
And eventually, they eat up all the peanuts.
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Si, intr-un final, mananca toate alunele.
07:37
And then they see that there are peanuts here on the feeder tray,
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Si atunci vad ca sunt alune aici, pe tava de alimentare,
07:40
and they hop up and help themselves.
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si sar si se servesc.
07:42
And then they leave, and the machine spits up more coins and peanuts,
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Apoi ele pleaca, iar automatul da afara mai multe monede si alune,
07:44
and life is really dandy, if you're a crow.
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si viata devine chiar grozava daca esti o cioara.
07:46
Then you can come back anytime and get yourself a peanut.
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Apoi poti sa vii oricand inapoi si sa-ti iei o aluna.
07:49
So, when they get really used to that, we move on to the crows coming back.
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Si cand se obisnuiesc bine cu asta, ne mutam la faza ciorilor care se intorc.
07:52
Now, they're used to the sound of the machine, and they keep coming back,
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Acum, ca s-au obisnuit cu sunetul masinii, si continua sa se intoarca
07:55
and digging out these peanuts from amongst the pile of coins that's there.
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si sa scoata aceste alune din gramada de monede care e acolo.
07:57
And when they get really happy about this,
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Si cand sunt foarte fericite cu asta,
07:59
we go ahead and stymie them.
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noi continuam si le incurcam.
08:01
And we move to the third stage, where we only give them a coin.
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Si ne mutam la partea a treia, cand le dam doar o moneda.
08:04
Now, like most of us who have gotten used to a good thing,
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Acum, ca pe majoritatea dintre noi care s-au obisnuit cu un lucru bun,
08:06
this really pisses them off.
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asta chiar le scoate din sarite.
08:07
So, they do what they do in nature when they're looking for something --
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Prin urmare fac ceea ce fac in natura cand cauta ceva -
08:11
they sweep things out of the way with their beak.
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indeparteaza lucrurile din calea lor cu ciocul.
08:13
And they do that here, and that knocks the coins down the slot,
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Si fac asta aici, si asta impinge moneda in deschizatura,
08:16
and when that happens, they get a peanut.
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si, ce se intampla, primesc o aluna.
08:18
And so this goes on for some time.
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Si asta se intampla pentru ceva timp.
08:19
The crows learn that all they have to do is show up,
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Ciorile invata ca tot ce trebuie e sa faca e sa vina,
08:21
wait for the coin to come out, put the coin in the slot, and then they get their peanut.
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sa astepte ca moneda sa iasa afara, sa o puna in deschizatura, si apoi isi primesc aluna.
08:24
And when they're really good and comfortable with that,
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Si cand sunt foarte fericite si confortabile cu asta,
08:26
we move to the final stage, in which they show up and nothing happens.
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ne mutam in stagiul final, in care ele vin si nu se intampla nimic.
08:31
And this is where we see the difference between crows and other animals.
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Si aici vedem diferenta intre ciori si alte animale.
08:33
Squirrels, for example, would show up, look for the peanut, go away.
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Veveritele, de exemplu, ar veni, ar cauta aluna, ar pleca.
08:37
Come back, look for the peanut, go away.
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Vin inapoi, cauta aluna, pleaca.
08:40
They do this maybe half a dozen times before they get bored,
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Fac asta poate de vreo 10 ori pana cand se plictisesc,
08:43
and then they go off and play in traffic.
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si apoi se duc si se joaca in trafic.
08:45
Crows, on the other hand, show up, and they try and figure it out.
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Ciorile, pe de alta parta, vin si incearca sa se dumireasca.
08:49
They know that this machine's been messing with them,
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Stiu ca masina asta le joaca feste
08:51
through three different stages of behavior.
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in trei stagii de comportament.
08:53
(Laughter)
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(Rasete)
08:54
They figure it's gotta have more to it.
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Isi dau seama ca trebuie sa fie ceva mai mult.
08:56
So, they poke at it and peck at it and whatnot.
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Asa ca o inghiontesc si o ciocanesc si tot asa.
08:58
And eventually some crow gets a bright idea that,
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Si, in final, uneia din ciori ii vine ideea geniala:
09:00
"Hey, there's lots of coins lying around from the first stage,
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"Hey, sunt o multime de monede aici jos din primul stagiu,"
09:03
lying around on the ground," hops down, picks it up, drops it in the slot.
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Sare jos, o ridica si o pune in deschizatura.
09:06
And then, we're off to the races.
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Si apoi suntem la curse.
09:08
That crow enjoys a temporary monopoly on peanuts,
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Cioara respectiva se bucura de un monopol temporar asupra alunelor,
09:10
until his friends figure out how to do it, and then there we go.
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pana cand prietenii ei isi dau seama cum sa faca, si... asta e!
09:15
So, what's significant about this to me
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Ceea ce e semnificativ pentru mine in situatia asta
09:17
isn't that we can train crows to pick up peanuts.
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nu este ca putem dresa ciori sa adune alune.
09:19
Mind you, there's 216 million dollars' worth of change lost every year,
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Desi, 216 milioane de dolari in monede sunt pierduti in fiecare an,
09:23
but I'm not sure I can depend on that ROI from crows.
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dar nu cred ca pot sa depind pe aceasta investitie de la ciori.
09:27
Instead, I think we should look a little bit larger.
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In schimb, cred ca putem privi putin mai in perspectiva.
09:30
I think that crows can be trained to do other things.
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Cred ca ciorile pot fi dresate sa faca alte lucruri.
09:32
For example, why not train them to pick up garbage after stadium events?
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De exemplu, de ce sa nu le dresam sa adune gunoiul dupa evenimente pe stadioane?
09:36
Or find expensive components from discarded electronics?
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Sau sa gaseasca componente scumpe din aparate electronice aruncate?
09:38
Or maybe do search and rescue?
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Sau poate sa ajute in acordarea primului ajutor.
09:40
The main thing, the main point of all this for me is
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Cel mai important lucru, ideea principala, pentru mine in toata asta
09:44
that we can find mutually beneficial systems for these species.
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este ca putem gasi sisteme reciproc benefice pentru aceste specii.
09:46
We can find ways to interact with these other species
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Putem gasi moduri de a interactiona cu aceste alte specii,
09:48
that doesn't involve exterminating them,
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care nu implica exterminarea lor,
09:50
but involves finding an equilibrium with them that's a useful balance.
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ci gasirea unui echilibru cu ele.
09:54
Thanks very much.
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Multumesc frumos.
09:56
(Applause)
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(Aplauze)
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Joshua Klein - HackerJoshua Klein is a fervent hacker of all things, including wet, pulpy systems like animals and people and the way they behave.
Why you should listen
Joshua Klein will hack anything that moves -- his list includes "social systems, computer networks, institutions, consumer hardware and animal behavior." His latest project, though charmingly low-tech, has amazing implications for the human-animal interface.
Right now, Klein is working at Frog Design as a Principle Technologist, while developing mobile/social applications, health care-related systems and other tools that improve people's lives. He's the author of the novel Roo'd, which was the first modern book (after Tarzan) to be ported to the iPhone.
Joshua Klein | Speaker | TED.com