TED2014
Richard Ledgett: The NSA responds to Edward Snowden's TED Talk
Ričard Ledžet (Richard Ledgett): NSA odgovara na TED govor Edvarda Snoudena
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Nakon što se Edvard Snouden pojavio kao gost iznenađenja na TED2014, Kris Anderson je rekao: "Ako agencija za državnu bezbednost želi da odgovori, neka to i uradi". I odgovorili su. Putem video linka, zamenik direktora NSA, Ričard Ledžet, odgovara na pitanja Krisa Andersona o ravnoteži između bezbednosti i zaštite privatnosti.
Richard Ledgett - Deputy director, NSA
Richard Ledgett is deputy director and senior civilian leader of the National Security Agency. He acts as the agency’s chief operating officer, responsible for guiding and directing studies, operations and policy. Full bio
Richard Ledgett is deputy director and senior civilian leader of the National Security Agency. He acts as the agency’s chief operating officer, responsible for guiding and directing studies, operations and policy. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:12
Chris Anderson: We had Edward Snowden here
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Kris Anderson: Edvard Snouden je bio ovde
00:14
a couple days ago,
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pre par dana,
00:16
and this is response time.
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i sad je vreme za odgovor.
00:18
And several of you have written to me
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Nekoliko vas mi je poslalo pitanja
00:20
with questions to ask our guest here from the NSA.
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za našeg gosta iz NSA.
00:25
So Richard Ledgett is the 15th deputy director
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Ričard Ledžet je 15. zamenik direktora
00:27
of the National Security Agency,
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agencije za državnu bezbednost,
00:30
and he's a senior civilian officer there,
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i viši civilni službenik,
00:33
acts as its chief operating officer,
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radi kao izvršni rukovodilac,
00:35
guiding strategies, setting internal policies,
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vodi strategije, postavlja interna pravila
00:39
and serving as the principal advisor to the director.
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i glavni je savetnik direktora.
00:43
And all being well,
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I ako je sve u redu,
00:45
welcome, Rick Ledgett, to TED.
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poželimo Riku Ledžetu dobrodošlicu na TED.
00:48
(Applause)
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(Aplauz)
00:55
Richard Ledgett: I'm really thankful for the opportunity to talk to folks here.
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Ričard Ledžet: Hvala vam
na prilici da vam se obratim.
na prilici da vam se obratim.
00:59
I look forward to the conversation,
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Radujem se razgovoru,
01:01
so thanks for arranging for that.
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hvala što ste ovo organizovali.
01:04
CA: Thank you, Rick.
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KA: Hvala Vama, Rik.
01:05
We appreciate you joining us.
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Cenimo to što ste nam se pridružili.
01:08
It's certainly quite a strong statement
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Volja NSA da se javi
01:10
that the NSA is willing to reach out
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i pokaže otvorenost ovde
01:12
and show a more open face here.
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ostavlja snažan utisak.
01:16
You saw, I think,
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Mislim da ste videli
01:18
the talk and interview that Edward Snowden
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govor i intervju sa Edvardom Snoudenom
01:22
gave here a couple days ago.
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od pre par dana.
01:23
What did you make of it?
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Šta mislite o tom govoru?
01:25
RL: So I think it was interesting.
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RL: Mislim da je bio zanimljiv.
01:28
We didn't realize that he
was going to show up there,
was going to show up there,
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Nismo znali da će se on pojaviti,
01:31
so kudos to you guys for arranging
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bravo za vas što ste priredili
01:34
a nice surprise like that.
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jedno tako lepo iznenađenje.
01:37
I think that, like a lot of the things
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Kao i mnoge stvari
01:42
that have come out since Mr. Snowden
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koje su izašle na videlo
od kad je gospodin Snouden
od kad je gospodin Snouden
01:47
started disclosing classified information,
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počeo da objavljuje
poverljive informacije,
poverljive informacije,
01:50
there were some kernels of truth in there,
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mislim da je tu bilo
dosta istinitih delova,
dosta istinitih delova,
01:53
but a lot of extrapolations and half-truths in there,
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ali i dosta zaključaka i poluistina,
01:56
and I'm interested in helping to address those.
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i želim da pomognem
u njihovom razjašnjavanju.
u njihovom razjašnjavanju.
01:59
I think this is a really important conversation
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Mislim da je ovaj razgovor
koji vodimo u SAD-u i internacionalno
02:01
that we're having in the United States
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02:03
and internationally,
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veoma važan,
02:04
and I think it is important and of import,
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mislim da je od značaja,
02:09
and so given that, we need to have that be
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i pošto je tako,
on mora da bude zasnovan na činjenicama,
02:12
a fact-based conversation,
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02:14
and we want to help make that happen.
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a mi želimo u tome da pomognemo.
02:16
CA: So the question that a lot
of people have here is,
of people have here is,
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KA: Ono što se mnogi ovde pitaju je,
02:21
what do you make of Snowden's motivations
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šta mislite o Snoudenovim motivima
02:24
for doing what he did,
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da uradi to što je uradio,
02:26
and did he have an alternative
way that he could have gone?
way that he could have gone?
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i da li je mogao da ide
nekim drugim putem?
nekim drugim putem?
02:30
RL: He absolutely did
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RL: Apsolutno je imao drugačije puteve
02:33
have alternative ways that he could have gone,
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kojima je mogao krenuti,
02:37
and I actually think that characterizing him
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i mislim da opisivanje njega
02:43
as a whistleblower
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kao uzbunjivača
02:44
actually hurts legitimate whistleblowing activities.
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šteti legitimnim
uzbunjivačkim aktivnostima.
uzbunjivačkim aktivnostima.
02:48
So what if somebody who works in the NSA --
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Šta ako neko ko radi za NSA -
02:52
and there are over 35,000 people who do.
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a ima 35.000 zaposlenih.
02:55
They're all great citizens.
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Oni su svi dobri građani.
02:57
They're just like your husbands, fathers, sisters,
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Oni su kao vaši muževi, očevi, sestre,
02:59
brothers, neighbors, nephews, friends and relatives,
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braća, komšije, sestrići,
prijatelji, rođaci,
prijatelji, rođaci,
03:03
all of whom are interested in doing the right thing
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i svi žele da urade ispravnu stvar
03:06
for their country
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za svoju zemlju
03:07
and for our allies internationally,
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i za naše međunarodne saveznike,
03:10
and so there are a variety of venues to address
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tako da postoji mnoštvo načina
da se rešavaju brige ako postoje.
03:14
if folks have a concern.
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03:15
First off, there's their supervisor,
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Prvo, tu je njihov nadređeni,
03:17
and up through the supervisory chain
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i lanac nadređenih
03:20
within their organization.
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unutar njihove organizacije.
03:21
If folks aren't comfortable with that,
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Ako ljudima to ne odgovara,
03:23
there are a number of inspectors general.
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postoji mnoštvo nadzornih organa.
03:25
In the case of Mr. Snowden, he had the option
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U ovom slučaju, gospodin Snouden
03:29
of the NSA inspector general,
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je imao opciju nadzornog organa NSA,
03:31
the Navy inspector general,
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nadzornog organa mornarice,
03:32
the Pacific Command inspector general,
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nadzornog organa pacifičke komande,
03:34
the Department of Defense inspector general,
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Ministarstva odbrane,
03:36
and the intelligence community inspector general,
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kao i obaveštajne zajednice,
03:38
any of whom would have both kept
his concerns in classified channels
his concerns in classified channels
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i svaki od njih bi njegovu zabrinutost
zadržao u poverljivim kanalima
zadržao u poverljivim kanalima
03:42
and been happy to address them.
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i rado bi se njima pozabavio.
03:45
(CA and RL speaking at once)
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(KA i RL govore uglas)
03:47
He had the option to go to
congressional committees,
congressional committees,
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Imao je opciju da se obrati
kongresnom komitetu,
kongresnom komitetu,
03:50
and there are mechanisms
to do that that are in place,
to do that that are in place,
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postoje mehanizmi za to,
03:53
and so he didn't do any of those things.
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a on ništa od toga nije uradio.
03:55
CA: Now, you had said that
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KA: Rekli ste da je Ed Snouden
03:58
Ed Snowden had other avenues
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imao drugih načina
04:01
for raising his concerns.
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da izrazi svoju zabrinutost.
04:03
The comeback on that is a couple of things:
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Postoji nekoliko odgovora na to:
04:07
one, that he certainly believes that as a contractor,
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prvo, on veruje da kao radnik po ugovoru
04:10
the avenues that would have been available
to him as an employee weren't available,
to him as an employee weren't available,
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nije imao iste načine
koje imaju redovni zaposleni,
koje imaju redovni zaposleni,
04:14
two, there's a track record of other whistleblowers,
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drugo, zna se da su drugi uzbunjivači
04:18
like [Thomas Andrews Drake] being treated
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kao što je Tomas Endrus Drejk,
04:20
pretty harshly, by some views,
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po nekim mišljenjima,
tretirani prilično oštro,
tretirani prilično oštro,
04:23
and thirdly, what he was taking on
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i treće, on se nije bavio
04:25
was not one specific flaw that he'd discovered,
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jednom određenom manom koju je otkrio,
04:28
but programs that had been approved
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nego programima koje su odobrile
04:30
by all three branches of government.
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sve tri grane vlade.
04:33
I mean, in that circumstance,
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U takvim okolnostima,
04:36
couldn't you argue that what he did
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zar ne mislite da je ono što je uradio
04:38
was reasonable?
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bilo razumno?
04:41
RL: No, I don't agree with that.
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RL: Ne, ne slažem se s tim.
04:43
I think that the —
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Mislim da -
04:47
sorry, I'm getting feedback
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izvinite, čujem eho
04:49
through the microphone there —
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kroz mikrofon -
04:52
the actions that he took were inappropriate
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njegovi postupci nisu bili primereni
04:57
because of the fact that
he put people's lives at risk,
he put people's lives at risk,
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jer je ugrozio živote ljudi,
05:02
basically, in the long run,
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na duge staze,
05:04
and I know there's been a lot of talk
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i znam da u javnosti,
05:05
in public by Mr. Snowden
and some of the journalists
and some of the journalists
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gospodin Snouden i neki novinari govore
05:10
that say that the things that have been disclosed
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da stvari koje je razotkrio
05:13
have not put national security and people at risk,
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nisu ugrozile državnu bezbednost
i živote ljudi,
i živote ljudi,
05:17
and that is categorically not true.
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i kategorički tvrdim da to nije istina.
05:22
They actually do.
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Ugrozile su.
05:24
I think there's also an amazing arrogance
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Takođe mislim da postoji mnogo arogancije
05:26
to the idea that he knows better than
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u ideji da on zna bolje
05:31
the framers of the Constitution
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od onih koji su doneli Ustav
05:34
in how the government should
be designed and work
be designed and work
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o tome kako bi vlada
trebalo da izgleda i radi
trebalo da izgleda i radi
05:36
for separation of powers
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na razdvajanju moći
05:38
and the fact that the executive
and the legislative branch
and the legislative branch
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i činjenice da izvršni
i zakonodavni organak
i zakonodavni organak
05:45
have to work together and they have
checks and balances on each other,
checks and balances on each other,
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moraju da rade zajedno
i proveravaju jedan drugog,
i proveravaju jedan drugog,
05:47
and then the judicial branch,
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a potom i sudski ogranak
05:49
which oversees the entire process.
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koji nadgleda ceo proces.
05:50
I think that's extremely arrogant on his part.
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Mislim da je to veoma arogantno
s njegove strane.
s njegove strane.
05:55
CA: Can you give a specific example
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KA: Da li možete da date konkretan primer
05:57
of how he put people's lives at risk?
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rizika kojima je izložio ljude?
06:00
RL: Yeah, sure.
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RL: Da, naravno.
06:02
So the things that he's disclosed,
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Ono što je otkrio,
06:06
the capabilities,
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sposobnosti,
06:07
and the NSA is a capabilities-based organization,
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a NSA je organizacija
zasnovana na sposobnostima,
zasnovana na sposobnostima,
06:10
so when we have foreign intelligence targets,
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pa kad su nam mete
strane obaveštajne službe,
strane obaveštajne službe,
06:14
legitimate things of interest --
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legitimne stvari od interesa -
06:15
like, terrorists is the iconic example,
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teroristi su klasičan primer,
06:17
but it includes things like human traffickers,
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ali i trgovci ljudima,
06:20
drug traffickers,
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trgovci drogom,
06:22
people who are trying to build
advanced weaponry, nuclear weapons,
advanced weaponry, nuclear weapons,
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ljudi koji pokušavaju da naprave
napredno i nuklearno oružje,
napredno i nuklearno oružje,
06:26
and build delivery systems for those,
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i sisteme koji ih omogućavaju,
06:28
and nation-states who might be executing aggression against their immediate neighbors,
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države koje ispoljavaju agresiju
prema svojim susedima,
prema svojim susedima,
06:32
which you may have some visibility
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možda imate nekog uvida
06:34
into some of that that's going on right now,
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u neke od tih stvari
koje se trenutno dešavaju,
koje se trenutno dešavaju,
06:37
the capabilities are applied
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te sposobnosti se primenjuju
06:41
in very discrete and measured and controlled ways.
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na veoma diskretne, precizne
i kontrolisane načine.
i kontrolisane načine.
06:46
So the unconstrained disclosure
of those capabilities
of those capabilities
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I neometano otkrivanje tih sposobnosti
06:49
means that as adversaries see them
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znači da kad ih protivnici vide
06:51
and recognize, "Hey, I might be vulnerable to this,"
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i prepoznaju da mogu biti njima izloženi,
06:54
they move away from that,
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oni će se povući,
06:55
and we have seen targets in terrorism,
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i viđali smo teroriste
06:58
in the nation-state area,
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u nekim državama,
07:00
in smugglers of various types, and other folks
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ili razne krijumčare i druge,
07:03
who have, because of the disclosures,
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koji su se, zbog tih otkrića,
07:05
moved away from our ability
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povukli i mi više nismo u mogućnosti
07:08
to have insight into what they're doing.
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da imamo uvid u ono što rade.
07:10
The net effect of that is that our people
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Posledica toga je da su naši ljudi
07:13
who are overseas in dangerous places,
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koji se nalaze na opasnim mestima,
07:15
whether they're diplomats or military,
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bilo da su diplomate ili vojnici,
07:17
and our allies who are in similar situations,
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ali i saveznici u sličnim situacijama,
07:20
are at greater risk because we don't see
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izloženi većem riziku
07:23
the threats that are coming their way.
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jer mi ne vidimo pretnje
kojima su izloženi.
kojima su izloženi.
07:26
CA: So that's a general response saying that
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KA: Dakle, to je opšti odgovor,
07:28
because of his revelations,
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koji kaže da je zbog njegovih otkrića,
07:30
access that you had to certain types of information
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vaš pristup određenim informacijama
07:33
has been shut down, has been closed down.
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je prekinut, zatvoren.
07:36
But the concern is that the nature of that access
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Ali zabrinutost je u vezi s tim
što taj pristup
što taj pristup
07:40
was not necessarily legitimate in the first place.
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nije od samog početka bio legalan.
07:43
I mean, describe to us this Bullrun program
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Mislim, objasnite nam program "Bullrun"
07:46
where it's alleged that the NSA
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koji navodi da je NSA
07:48
specifically weakened security
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namerno oslabila bezbednost
07:51
in order to get the type of
access that you've spoken of.
access that you've spoken of.
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da bi dobila upravo taj pristup
o kom govorite.
o kom govorite.
07:55
RL: So there are, when our
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RL: Kada naše legitimne mete
stranih obaveštajnih službi,
stranih obaveštajnih službi,
08:00
legitimate foreign intelligence targets
of the type that I described before,
of the type that I described before,
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koje sam ranije opisao,
08:03
use the global telecommunications system
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koriste globalni telekomunikacioni sistem
08:06
as their communications methodology,
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kao svoju metodologiju komunikacije,
08:08
and they do, because it's a great system,
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a koriste ga, jer je to sjajan sistem,
08:10
it's the most complex system ever devised by man,
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najsloženiji sistem
koji je čovek napravio,
koji je čovek napravio,
08:12
and it is a wonder,
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i pravo čudo,
08:14
and lots of folks in the room there
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i mnogi tu u prostoriji
08:16
are responsible for the creation
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su zaslužni za njegovu izradu
08:18
and enhancement of that,
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i razvoj,
08:19
and it's just a wonderful thing.
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i to je sjajna stvar.
08:22
But it's also used by people who are
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Ali koriste ga i ljudi
08:25
working against us and our allies.
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koji rade protiv nas i naših saveznika.
08:27
And so if I'm going to pursue them,
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I ako želim da ih nađem,
08:29
I need to have the capability
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moram da imam mogućnost
08:31
to go after them,
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da ih tražim,
08:33
and again, the controls are in
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i ponavljam, kontrola je u tome
08:36
how I apply that capability,
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kako primenjujem te mogućnosti,
08:39
not that I have the capability itself.
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2246
a ne u činjenici da imam mogućnost.
08:41
Otherwise, if we could make it so that
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1772
Inače, kad bismo mogli da napravimo
08:43
all the bad guys used one corner of the Internet,
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2186
da loši momci koriste jedan deo interneta,
08:45
we could have a domain, badguy.com.
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513210
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imali bismo domen losmomak.com.
08:47
That would be awesome,
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1494
To bi bilo odlično
08:48
and we could just concentrate all our efforts there.
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i mogli bismo da fokusiramo
naše snage na to.
naše snage na to.
08:50
That's not how it works.
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1332
Ali to ne funkcioniše tako.
08:52
They're trying to hide
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Oni pokušavaju da se sakriju
08:54
from the government's ability
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1805
od vladinih mogućnosti
08:56
to isolate and interdict their actions,
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3283
da izoluje i zabrani njihove postupke,
08:59
and so we have to swim in that same space.
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pa moramo da se nalazimo u istom prostoru.
09:02
But I will tell you this.
191
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1602
Ali reći ću vam nešto.
09:03
So NSA has two missions.
192
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1479
NSA ima dve misije.
09:05
One is the Signals Intelligence mission
193
533326
1450
Jedna je "Signals Intelligence",
09:06
that we've unfortunately read so
much about in the press.
much about in the press.
194
534776
3627
o kojoj smo nažalost mnogo čitali
u štampi.
u štampi.
09:10
The other one is the Information Assurance mission,
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538403
1738
Druga je "Information Assurance",
09:12
which is to protect the national security
systems of the United States,
systems of the United States,
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2911
koja štiti sisteme državne bezbednosti
SAD-a,
SAD-a,
09:15
and by that, that's things like
197
543052
1968
pod to spada
09:17
the communications that the president uses,
198
545020
2016
komunikacija predsednika,
09:19
the communications that
control our nuclear weapons,
control our nuclear weapons,
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547036
2605
komunikacija koja štiti
naše nuklearno naoružanje,
naše nuklearno naoružanje,
09:21
the communications that our
military uses around the world,
military uses around the world,
200
549641
2269
komunikacija koju naša vojska
koristi širom sveta,
koristi širom sveta,
09:23
and the communications that we use with our allies,
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551910
2491
i komunikacija koju koristimo
sa našim saveznicima,
sa našim saveznicima,
09:26
and that some of our allies themselves use.
202
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1724
kao i neka koju oni sami koriste.
09:28
And so we make recommendations
on standards to use,
on standards to use,
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556125
5837
Mi preporučujemo standarde
za korišćenje,
za korišćenje,
09:33
and we use those same standards,
204
561962
1827
i mi koristimo iste te standarde
09:35
and so we are invested
205
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1878
i stalo nam je do toga
09:37
in making sure that those communications
206
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2245
da je ta komunikacija sigurna
09:39
are secure for their intended purposes.
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567912
3613
u svojoj svrsi.
09:43
CA: But it sounds like what you're saying is that
208
571525
1949
KA: Ali zvuči kao da govorite
09:45
when it comes to the Internet at large,
209
573474
3745
da je, kad se radi o internetu,
09:49
any strategy is fair game
210
577219
2627
bilo kakva strategija fer
09:51
if it improves America's safety.
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2916
ako povećava sigurnost Amerike.
09:54
And I think this is partly where there is such
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582762
2058
Mislim da delom zbog toga
dolazi do tolikog
razilaženja u mišljenjima,
razilaženja u mišljenjima,
09:56
a divide of opinion,
213
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1385
09:58
that there's a lot of people in this room
214
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1250
mnogi u ovoj prostoriji i širom sveta
09:59
and around the world
215
587455
1373
10:00
who think very differently about the Internet.
216
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1650
drugačije razmišljaju o internetu.
10:02
They think of it as a momentous
217
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2987
Oni ga smatraju
važnim izumom čovečanstva,
10:05
invention of humanity,
218
593465
1598
10:07
kind of on a par with the
Gutenberg press, for example.
Gutenberg press, for example.
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595063
3164
na nivou Gutenbergove štamparske prese,
na primer.
na primer.
10:10
It's the bringer of knowledge to all.
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598227
2455
On znanje čini dostupnim svima.
10:12
It's the connector of all.
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600682
1704
Povezuje sve ljude.
10:14
And it's viewed in those sort of idealistic terms.
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3385
I posmatra se idealistički.
10:17
And from that lens,
223
605771
1573
U tom kontekstu,
10:19
what the NSA has done is equivalent to
224
607344
2597
postupci NSA jednaki su postupcima
10:21
the authorities back in Germany
225
609941
2160
nemačke vlade
10:24
inserting some device into every printing press
226
612101
2869
koja je u svaku štamparsku presu
ubacivala uređaj
ubacivala uređaj
10:26
that would reveal which books people bought
227
614970
3541
koji je otkrivao koje knjige ljudi kupuju
10:30
and what they read.
228
618511
2020
i šta čitaju.
10:32
Can you understand that from that viewpoint,
229
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2231
Da li razumete da, iz te tačke gledišta,
10:34
it feels outrageous?
230
622762
4205
to deluje šokantno?
10:38
RL: I do understand that, and I actually share
the view of the utility of the Internet,
the view of the utility of the Internet,
231
626967
3302
RL: To razumem, i slažem se
sa mišljenjem o korisnosti interneta,
sa mišljenjem o korisnosti interneta,
10:42
and I would argue it's bigger than the Internet.
232
630269
1702
i rekao bih da je to
i više od interneta.
i više od interneta.
10:43
It is a global telecommunications system.
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631971
2411
To je globalni komunikacioni sistem.
10:46
The Internet is a big chunk of
that, but there is a lot more.
that, but there is a lot more.
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634382
2451
Internet je veliki deo toga,
ali postoji mnogo više.
ali postoji mnogo više.
10:48
And I think that people have legitimate concerns
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636833
3343
Mislim da su ljudi s pravom zabrinuti
10:52
about the balance between
transparency and secrecy.
transparency and secrecy.
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6306
za balans između transparentnosti
i tajnosti.
i tajnosti.
10:58
That's sort of been couched as a balance
237
646482
1940
To se predstavlja
11:00
between privacy and national security.
238
648422
3636
kao balans između privatnosti
i državne bezbednosti.
i državne bezbednosti.
11:04
I don't think that's the right framing.
239
652058
1420
Mislim da to nije dobar okvir.
11:05
I think it really is transparency and secrecy.
240
653478
2365
Mislim da se zaista radi
o transparentnosti i tajnosti.
o transparentnosti i tajnosti.
11:07
And so that's the national and international conversation that we're having,
241
655843
3559
To je državni i međunarodni razgovor
11:11
and we want to participate in that, and want
242
659402
1399
u kom želimo da učestvujemo
11:12
people to participate in it in an informed way.
243
660801
2440
i želimo da ljudi učestvuju
sa pravim informacijama.
sa pravim informacijama.
11:15
So there are things,
244
663241
1911
Postoje stvari,
11:17
let me talk there a little bit more,
245
665152
1450
dozvolite da kažem više,
11:18
there are things that we need
to be transparent about:
to be transparent about:
246
666602
3769
u vezi s kojima moramo biti transparentni:
11:22
our authorities, our processes,
247
670371
2027
naše nadležnosti, naši procesi,
11:24
our oversight, who we are.
248
672398
2054
naše greške, naš identitet.
11:26
We, NSA, have not done a good job of that,
249
674452
1766
Mi, NSA, nismo to dobro radili,
11:28
and I think that's part of the reason
250
676218
1388
i mislim da je to deo razloga
11:29
that this has been so revelational
251
677606
2729
što je ovo bilo tako razotkrivajuće
11:32
and so sensational in the media.
252
680335
2196
i tako senzacionalno u medijima.
11:34
Nobody knew who we were. We were the No Such Agency, the Never Say Anything.
253
682531
4126
Niko nije znao ko smo. Bili smo
Nikakva Stvarna Agencija,
Nikakva Stvarna Agencija,
Nemi Smo Apsolutno.
11:38
There's takeoffs of our logo
254
686657
2649
Postoje parodije našeg logoa,
orao sa slušalicama.
orao sa slušalicama.
11:41
of an eagle with headphones on around it.
255
689306
3019
11:44
And so that's the public characterization.
256
692325
3623
Tako nas javnost doživljava.
11:47
And so we need to be more
transparent about those things.
transparent about those things.
257
695948
4336
Moramo da budemo transparentniji
u vezi sa tim stvarima.
u vezi sa tim stvarima.
11:52
What we don't need to be transparent about,
258
700284
1418
Ono što ne moramo da otkrivamo,
11:53
because it's bad for the U.S.,
259
701702
2338
jer je loše po SAD,
11:56
it's bad for all those other
countries that we work with
countries that we work with
260
704040
2583
kao i za sve druge države s kojima radimo,
11:58
and that we help provide information
261
706623
2093
i kojima pomažemo davanjem informacija
12:00
that helps them secure themselves
262
708716
1722
koje im pomažu da zaštite
12:02
and their people,
263
710438
1509
sebe i svoj narod,
12:03
it's bad to expose operations and capabilities
264
711947
3890
loše je razotkriti operacije i mogućnosti
12:07
in a way that allows the people
that we're all working against,
that we're all working against,
265
715837
5292
na način da ljudi protiv kojih svi radimo,
12:13
the generally recognized bad guys,
266
721129
4963
koji su poznati kao loši momci,
12:18
to counter those.
267
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2300
mogu do njih da dođu.
12:20
CA: But isn't it also bad to deal
268
728392
3025
KA: Ali zar isto tako nije loše
12:23
a kind of body blow to the American companies
269
731417
3404
udariti američke kompanije
12:26
that have essentially given the world
270
734821
1896
koje su svetu dale
12:28
most of the Internet services that matter?
271
736717
5180
većinu internet servisa koji su važni?
12:33
RL: It is. It's really the companies are
272
741897
3392
RL: Jeste. Zapravo su te kompanije
u teškoj poziciji,
u teškoj poziciji,
12:37
in a tough position, as are we,
273
745289
3388
kao i mi,
12:40
because the companies,
274
748677
1941
jer te kompanije,
12:42
we compel them to provide information,
275
750618
2332
mi ih primoravamo da daju informacije,
12:44
just like every other nation in the world does.
276
752950
1983
baš kao što svaka druga nacija
na svetu radi.
na svetu radi.
12:46
Every industrialized nation in the world
277
754933
3274
Svaka industrijalizovana država na svetu
12:50
has a lawful intercept program
278
758207
2100
ima zakonski program presretanja,
12:52
where they are requiring companies
279
760307
2498
gde se zahteva od kompanija
12:54
to provide them with information
280
762805
1411
da obezbede informacije
12:56
that they need for their security,
281
764216
1655
koje su potrebne zbog bezbednosti,
12:57
and the companies that are involved
282
765871
2227
i kompanije koje su uključene
13:00
have complied with those programs
283
768098
1428
složile su se s tim programima,
13:01
in the same way that they have to do
284
769526
1618
na isti način kao kad rade
13:03
when they're operating in Russia or the U.K.
285
771144
3450
u Rusiji ili Britaniji,
13:06
or China or India or France,
286
774594
4286
ili Kini, Indiji, Francuskoj,
13:10
any country that you choose to name.
287
778880
2018
bilo kojoj zemlji koju zamislite.
13:12
And so the fact that these revelations
288
780898
4909
Činjenica da se ova otkrića
13:17
have been broadly characterized as
289
785807
2294
naveliko karakterišu kao
13:20
"you can't trust company A because
290
788101
1890
"ne možete verovati kompaniji A
13:21
your privacy is suspect with them"
291
789991
3515
jer vaša privatnost nije sigurna kod njih"
13:25
is actually only accurate in the sense that
292
793506
4041
je tačna samo u smislu
13:29
it's accurate with every other company in the world
293
797547
2736
da je tačna u svakoj drugoj kompaniji
na svetu
na svetu
13:32
that deals with any of those countries in the world.
294
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2159
koja radi sa nekom od tih zemalja.
13:34
And so it's being picked up by people
295
802442
2128
To su ljudi uzeli
13:36
as a marketing advantage,
296
804570
1594
kao marketinšku prednost
13:38
and it's being marketed that
way by several countries,
way by several countries,
297
806164
1773
i nekoliko država to tako i predstavlja,
13:39
including some of our allied countries,
298
807937
1511
uključujući i neke naše saveznike,
13:41
where they are saying,
299
809448
1502
koji govore:
13:42
"Hey, you can't trust the U.S.,
300
810950
1529
"Hej, ne možete verovati SAD-u,
13:44
but you can trust our telecom company,
301
812479
2586
ali možete verovati
našoj telekomunikacionoj kompaniji,
našoj telekomunikacionoj kompaniji,
13:47
because we're safe."
302
815065
1354
jer smo mi bezbedni."
13:48
And they're actually using that to counter
303
816419
1659
To koriste da kontriraju
13:50
the very large technological edge
304
818078
2318
velikoj tehnološkoj prednosti
13:52
that U.S. companies have
305
820396
1809
koju imaju američke kompanije
13:54
in areas like the cloud and
Internet-based technologies.
Internet-based technologies.
306
822205
3906
u poljima "oblaka" i tehnologijama
baziranim na internetu.
baziranim na internetu.
13:58
CA: You're sitting there with the American flag,
307
826111
3007
KA: Sedite ispred američke zastave,
14:01
and the American Constitution guarantees
308
829118
3570
a američki Ustav garantuje slobodu
14:04
freedom from unreasonable search and seizure.
309
832688
2847
od neopravdanog pretresa i zaplene.
14:07
How do you characterize
310
835535
1961
Kako opisujete
14:09
the American citizen's right to privacy?
311
837496
4480
pravo američkih građana na privatnost?
14:13
Is there such a right?
312
841976
2281
Da li tako nešto postoji?
14:16
RL: Yeah, of course there is.
313
844257
2736
RL: Da, naravno da postoji.
14:18
And we devote an inordinate
amount of time and pressure,
amount of time and pressure,
314
846993
3043
Mi posvećujemo ogromnu količinu
vremena i pritiska,
vremena i pritiska,
14:22
inordinate and appropriate, actually I should say,
315
850036
2284
u stvari trebalo bi da kažem,
ogromnu i odgovarajuću
ogromnu i odgovarajuću
14:24
amount of time and effort in order to ensure
316
852320
2208
količinu vremena i napora da osiguramo
14:26
that we protect that privacy.
317
854528
2332
zaštitu te privatnosti,
14:28
and beyond that, the privacy of citizens
318
856860
3057
i dalje od toga,
14:31
around the world, it's not just Americans.
319
859917
3649
privatnost građana širom sveta,
ne samo Amerikanaca.
ne samo Amerikanaca.
14:35
Several things come into play here.
320
863566
1900
Nekoliko stvari je ovde u igri.
14:37
First, we're all in the same network.
321
865466
1748
Prvo, svi smo u istoj mreži.
14:39
My communications,
322
867214
1574
Moja komunikacija,
14:40
I'm a user of a particular Internet email service
323
868788
4147
ja koristim određeni internet imejl servis
14:44
that is the number one email service of choice
324
872935
3971
koji je prvi po izboru
14:48
by terrorists around the world, number one.
325
876906
1593
i terorista širom sveta.
14:50
So I'm there right beside them in email space
326
878499
2725
Ja se dakle nalazim odmah pored njih
14:53
in the Internet.
327
881224
1889
u imejl prostoru na internetu.
14:55
And so we need to be able to pick that apart
328
883113
3592
Moramo biti sposobni da to razdvojimo
14:58
and find the information that's relevant.
329
886705
3855
i pronađemo značajne informacije.
15:05
In doing so, we're going to necessarily encounter
330
893131
3362
U tom procesu, neminovno ćemo sresti
15:08
Americans and innocent foreign citizens
331
896493
2068
nevine američke i strane građane
15:10
who are just going about their business,
332
898561
1546
koji samo gledaju svoja posla,
15:12
and so we have procedures in
place that shreds that out,
place that shreds that out,
333
900107
2698
pa tako imamo procedure koje odvajaju,
15:14
that says, when you find that,
334
902805
2215
koje kažu, kad to pronađete,
15:17
not if you find it, when you find it,
because you're certain to find it,
because you're certain to find it,
335
905020
2267
ne "ako" pronađete,
jer ćete sigurno pronaći,
jer ćete sigurno pronaći,
15:19
here's how you protect that.
336
907287
1783
evo kako da ih zaštitite.
15:21
These are called minimization procedures.
337
909070
2105
One se nazivaju procedure minimizacije.
15:23
They're approved by the attorney general
338
911175
2028
Odobrio ih je državni tužilac
15:25
and constitutionally based.
339
913203
1600
i zasnovane su na ustavu.
15:26
And so we protect those.
340
914803
2480
Mi ih dakle štitimo.
15:29
And then, for people, citizens of the world
341
917283
4471
Potom, za ljude, građane sveta
15:33
who are going about their lawful business
342
921754
1879
koji obavljaju svoje legalne poslove
15:35
on a day-to-day basis,
343
923633
1707
svakog dana,
15:37
the president on his January 17 speech,
344
925340
2296
predsednik je u svom govoru 17. januara
15:39
laid out some additional protections
345
927636
1493
predstavio dodatne zaštite
15:41
that we are providing to them.
346
929129
2059
koje im obezbeđujemo.
15:43
So I think absolutely,
347
931188
1872
Mislim da ljudi apsolutno
15:45
folks do have a right to privacy,
348
933060
1535
imaju prava na privatnosti,
15:46
and that we work very hard to make sure
349
934595
2619
i mi naporno radimo da osiguramo
15:49
that that right to privacy is protected.
350
937214
2806
da je to pravo zaštićeno.
15:52
CA: What about foreigners using
351
940020
1736
KA: Šta je sa strancima
15:53
American companies' Internet services?
352
941756
2150
koji koriste internet usluge
američkih kompanija?
američkih kompanija?
15:55
Do they have any privacy rights?
353
943906
3845
Da li oni imaju prava na privatnost?
15:59
RL: They do. They do, in the sense of,
354
947751
2673
RL: Imaju.
16:02
the only way that we are able to compel
355
950424
5740
U smislu da je jedini način da primoramo
16:08
one of those companies to provide us information
356
956164
2326
neku od tih kompanija
da nam da informacije,
da nam da informacije,
16:10
is when it falls into one of three categories:
357
958490
3462
onda kada spada u jednu od tri kategorije:
16:13
We can identify that this particular person,
358
961952
3552
možemo uz pomoć nekog kriterijuma,
16:17
identified by a selector of some kind,
359
965504
2390
da identifikujemo da je određena osoba,
16:19
is associated with counterterrorist
360
967894
3356
povezana sa protivterorizmom
16:23
or proliferation or other foreign intelligence target.
361
971250
5249
ili oružjem ili nekom drugom metom
strane obaveštajne službe.
strane obaveštajne službe.
16:28
CA: Much has been made of the fact that
362
976499
1782
KA: Mnogo se govori o činjenici
16:30
a lot of the information that you've obtained
363
978281
2466
da mnogo informacija koje ste skupili
kroz ove programe
kroz ove programe
16:32
through these programs is essentially metadata.
364
980747
2276
čine metapodaci.
16:35
It's not necessarily the actual words
365
983023
2295
To nisu obavezno konkretne reči
16:37
that someone has written in an email
366
985318
1653
koje je neko napisao u mejlu
16:38
or given on a phone call.
367
986971
1349
ili rekao preko telefona.
16:40
It's who they wrote to and when, and so forth.
368
988320
4049
Nego kome su pisali, kada, i tako dalje.
16:44
But it's been argued,
369
992369
1536
Ali tvrdi se,
16:45
and someone here in the audience has talked
370
993905
2111
i neko iz publike je razgovarao
16:48
to a former NSA analyst who said
371
996016
2467
sa jednim bivšim analitičarem NSA
16:50
metadata is actually much more invasive
372
998483
2387
koji je rekao da su metapodaci
mnogo invazivniji od sadržaja,
16:52
than the core data,
373
1000870
1403
16:54
because in the core data
374
1002273
1133
jer putem sadržaja
16:55
you present yourself as you want to be presented.
375
1003406
3227
se predstavljate onako kako želite.
16:58
With metadata, who knows what the conclusions are
376
1006633
2706
Sa metapodacima,
ko zna kakvi se zaključci donose?
17:01
that are drawn?
377
1009339
1416
17:02
Is there anything to that?
378
1010755
2006
Recite nešto o tome.
17:04
RL: I don't really understand that argument.
379
1012761
1789
RL: Ne razumem baš tu tvrdnju.
17:06
I think that metadata's important
for a couple of reasons.
for a couple of reasons.
380
1014550
2900
Mislim da su metapodaci važni
iz par razloga.
iz par razloga.
17:09
Metadata is the information that lets you
381
1017450
4478
To su informacije koje vam omogućavaju
17:13
find connections that people are trying to hide.
382
1021928
3391
da pronađete veze
koje ljudi pokušavaju da sakriju.
koje ljudi pokušavaju da sakriju.
17:17
So when a terrorist is corresponding
383
1025319
2011
Dakle, kada neki terorista komunicira
17:19
with somebody else who's not known to us
384
1027330
1845
sa nekim ko nam nije poznat,
17:21
but is engaged in doing or
supporting terrorist activity,
supporting terrorist activity,
385
1029175
2608
ali je uključen u terorističke aktivnosti,
17:23
or someone who's violating international sanctions
386
1031783
2426
ili s nekim ko krši međunarodne sankcije
17:26
by providing nuclear weapons-related material
387
1034209
3077
obezbeđujući materijal
u vezi sa nuklearnim oružjem
u vezi sa nuklearnim oružjem
17:29
to a country like Iran or North Korea,
388
1037286
2326
zemlji kao što je Iran ili Severna Koreja,
17:31
is trying to hide that activity
because it's illicit activity.
because it's illicit activity.
389
1039612
3577
i pokušava da te aktivnosti sakrije
jer nisu dozvoljene.
jer nisu dozvoljene.
17:35
What metadata lets you do is connect that.
390
1043189
2810
Metapodaci vam omogućavaju da to povežete.
17:37
The alternative to that
391
1045999
1532
Alternativa
17:39
is one that's much less efficient
392
1047531
1619
je mnogo manje efikasna
17:41
and much more invasive of privacy,
393
1049150
1381
i mnogo više zadire u privatnost,
17:42
which is gigantic amounts of content collection.
394
1050531
3836
a to je skupljanje
ogromne količine sadržaja.
ogromne količine sadržaja.
17:46
So metadata, in that sense,
395
1054367
1393
Dakle, metapodaci, u tom smislu,
17:47
actually is privacy-enhancing.
396
1055760
2396
povećavaju privatnost.
17:50
And we don't, contrary to some of the stuff
397
1058156
2105
I nasuprot mnogo čemu što je pisano,
17:52
that's been printed,
398
1060261
1715
mi ne sedimo
17:53
we don't sit there and grind out
399
1061976
2769
i ne pravimo
17:56
metadata profiles of average people.
400
1064745
2837
profile metapodataka običnih ljudi.
17:59
If you're not connected
401
1067582
1956
Ako niste povezani
18:01
to one of those valid intelligence targets,
402
1069538
3052
sa nekom proverenom metom,
18:04
you are not of interest to us.
403
1072590
3413
niste nam zanimljivi.
18:08
CA: So in terms of the threats
404
1076003
3172
KA: Kad su u pitanju sve pretnje
18:11
that face America overall,
405
1079175
2312
s kojima se Amerika suočava,
18:13
where would you place terrorism?
406
1081487
3212
gde biste postavili terorizam?
18:16
RL: I think terrorism is still number one.
407
1084699
3098
RL: Mislim da je još uvek na prvom mestu.
18:19
I think that we have never been in a time
408
1087797
3904
Nikada nije postojalo vreme
18:23
where there are more places
409
1091701
1991
gde postoji toliko mesta
18:25
where things are going badly
410
1093692
2853
na kojima se stvari loše odvijaju,
18:28
and forming the petri dish in which terrorists
411
1096545
3901
i formiraju pogodno tlo gde teroristi
18:32
take advantage of the lack of governance.
412
1100446
5310
iskorišćavaju nedostatak vlasti.
18:37
An old boss of mine, Tom Fargo, Admiral Fargo,
413
1105756
3637
Moj stari šef, admiral Tom Fargo,
18:41
used to describe it as arcs of instability.
414
1109393
2213
to je opisivao kao lukove nestabilnosti.
18:43
And so you have a lot of those arcs of instability
415
1111606
2368
Trenutno u svetu
18:45
in the world right now,
416
1113974
1693
ima mnogo lukova nestabilnoti,
18:47
in places like Syria, where there's a civil war
417
1115667
1837
na primer u Siriji,
gde besni građanski rat
gde besni građanski rat
18:49
going on and you have massive numbers,
418
1117504
2710
i imate mnogo,
18:52
thousands and thousands of foreign fighters
419
1120214
1735
hiljade i hiljade stranih vojnika
18:53
who are coming into Syria
420
1121949
1733
koji dolaze u Siriju
18:55
to learn how to be terrorists
421
1123682
1503
da nauče da budu teroristi
18:57
and practice that activity,
422
1125185
2101
i praktikuju te aktivnosti,
18:59
and lots of those people are Westerners
423
1127286
2699
i mnogi od njih su zapadnjaci
19:01
who hold passports to European countries
424
1129985
3729
sa pasošima evropskih zemalja,
19:05
or in some cases the United States,
425
1133714
1752
ponekad i SAD-a,
19:07
and so they are basically learning how
426
1135466
2401
i oni u osnovi uče
19:09
to do jihad and have expressed intent
427
1137867
3480
kako da sprovode džihad
19:13
to go out and do that later on
428
1141347
2413
i izjasnili su se da žele da kasnije
19:15
in their home countries.
429
1143760
1667
to sprovedu u svojim zemljama.
19:17
You've got places like Iraq,
430
1145427
1321
Imate mesta kao što je Irak,
19:18
which is suffering from a high
level of sectarian violence,
level of sectarian violence,
431
1146748
2782
gde vlada visok stepen sektaškog nasilja,
19:21
again a breeding ground for terrorism.
432
1149530
2651
što je takođe pogodno mesto za terorizam.
19:24
And you have the activity in the Horn of Africa
433
1152181
2506
Imate i aktivnosti na rogu Afrike
19:26
and the Sahel area of Africa.
434
1154687
3047
i u regiji Sahel.
19:29
Again, lots of weak governance
435
1157734
2528
Ponovo, mnogo slabe vlasti
19:32
which forms a breeding ground for terrorist activity.
436
1160262
3891
koja je pogodno tlo
za terorističke aktivnosti.
za terorističke aktivnosti.
19:36
So I think it's very serious. I think it's number one.
437
1164153
1994
Dakle, mislim da je to vrlo ozbiljno.
Na prvom mestu.
Na prvom mestu.
19:38
I think number two is cyber threat.
438
1166147
2254
A na drugom su sajber pretnje.
19:40
I think cyber is a threat in three ways:
439
1168401
5764
I to na tri načina:
19:46
One way, and probably the most common way
440
1174165
3754
najčešći način,
19:49
that people have heard about it,
441
1177919
2192
za koji su ljudi čuli,
19:52
is due to the theft of intellectual property,
442
1180111
2000
je usled krađe intelektualne svojine,
19:54
so basically, foreign countries going in,
443
1182111
4304
u osnovi strane države
19:58
stealing companies' secrets,
444
1186415
1877
kradu tajne od kompanija
20:00
and then providing that information
445
1188292
1998
i potom te informacije
20:02
to state-owned enterprises
446
1190290
1737
dele sa državnim firmama
20:04
or companies connected to the government
447
1192027
2949
ili kompanijama povezanim sa vladom,
20:06
to help them leapfrog technology
448
1194976
2503
kako bi im pomogle
u tehnološkom napretku
u tehnološkom napretku
20:09
or to gain business intelligence
449
1197479
2075
ili sticanju poslovnih informacija
20:11
that's then used to win contracts overseas.
450
1199554
2668
koje potom koriste da dobiju poslove
u inostranstvu.
u inostranstvu.
20:14
That is a hugely costly set of
activities that's going on right now.
activities that's going on right now.
451
1202222
3739
Te aktivnosti koje se trenutno odvijaju
su veoma skupe.
su veoma skupe.
20:17
Several nation-states are doing it.
452
1205961
1467
Nekoliko država ih čini.
20:19
Second is the denial-of-service attacks.
453
1207428
3225
Na drugom mestu su napadi
onemogućavanja pristupa.
onemogućavanja pristupa.
20:22
You're probably aware that there have been
454
1210653
1379
Verovatno znate da je mnoštvo njih
20:24
a spate of those directed against
455
1212032
1971
upereno protiv
20:26
the U.S. financial sector since 2012.
456
1214003
3588
američkog finansijskog sektora od 2012.
20:29
Again, that's a nation-state who
is executing those attacks,
is executing those attacks,
457
1217591
2617
Opet, neka država sprovodi te napade,
20:32
and they're doing that
458
1220208
1073
i to čine
20:33
as a semi-anonymous way of reprisal.
459
1221281
4753
kao poluanonimni način osvete.
20:38
And the last one is destructive attacks,
460
1226034
1390
Poslednji su destruktivni napadi,
20:39
and those are the ones that concern me the most.
461
1227424
1526
i oni me najviše brinu.
20:40
Those are on the rise.
462
1228950
1400
Oni su u porastu.
20:42
You have the attack against Saudi Aramco in 2012,
463
1230350
3630
2012. je bio napad protiv
kompanije Saudi Aramco,
kompanije Saudi Aramco,
20:45
August of 2012.
464
1233980
1690
u avgustu 2012.
20:47
It took down about 35,000 of their computers
465
1235670
2285
Onesposobio je oko 35.000
njihovih računara
njihovih računara
20:49
with a Wiper-style virus.
466
1237955
1792
virusom tipa Wiper.
20:51
You had a follow-on a week later
467
1239747
1913
Nedelju dana kasnije
20:53
to a Qatari company.
468
1241660
1534
isto se desilo jednoj katarskoj kompaniji.
20:55
You had March of 2013,
469
1243194
2141
U martu 2013.
20:57
you had a South Korean attack
470
1245335
2671
napad iz Južne Koreje
21:00
that was attributed in the press to North Korea
471
1248006
2433
mediji su pripisali Severnoj Koreji,
21:02
that took out thousands of computers.
472
1250439
2055
a on je onesposobio hiljade računara.
21:04
Those are on the rise,
473
1252494
1445
Oni su u porastu,
21:05
and we see people expressing interest
474
1253939
2734
i vidimo da se ljudi interesuju
21:08
in those capabilities
475
1256673
1176
za te mogućnosti
21:09
and a desire to employ them.
476
1257849
2017
i žele da ih sprovedu.
21:11
CA: Okay, so a couple of things here,
477
1259866
1566
KA: U redu. Ovde ima par stvari,
21:13
because this is really the core of this, almost.
478
1261432
1942
jer je ovo skoro srž stvari.
21:15
I mean, first of all,
479
1263374
1264
Mislim, pre svega,
21:16
a lot of people who look at risk
480
1264638
1558
mnogi koji gledaju rizik
21:18
and look at the numbers
481
1266196
1217
i brojeve
21:19
don't understand this belief that terrorism
482
1267413
2260
ne razumeju ovo uverenje
da je terorizam i dalje najveća pretnja.
21:21
is still the number one threat.
483
1269673
1884
21:23
Apart from September 11,
484
1271557
1628
Osim 11. septembra,
21:25
I think the numbers are that
in the last 30 or 40 years
in the last 30 or 40 years
485
1273185
2355
mislim da brojevi pokazuju
da je u poslednjih 30 ili 40 godina
da je u poslednjih 30 ili 40 godina
21:27
about 500 Americans have died from terrorism,
486
1275540
3101
oko 500 Amerikanaca poginulo
usled terorizma,
usled terorizma,
21:30
mostly from homegrown terrorists.
487
1278641
3983
uglavnom od domaćih terorista.
U poslednjih nekoliko godina,
21:34
The chance in the last few years
488
1282624
1587
21:36
of being killed by terrorism
489
1284211
1723
šansa za smrtni ishod usled terorizma
21:37
is far less than the chance
of being killed by lightning.
of being killed by lightning.
490
1285934
3984
je mnogo manja od šanse
za smrtni ishod usled groma.
za smrtni ishod usled groma.
21:41
I guess you would say that a single nuclear incident
491
1289918
3406
Pretpostavljam da ćete reći
da bi jedan nuklearni incident
ili čin biološkog terorizma ili slično
ili čin biološkog terorizma ili slično
21:45
or bioterrorism act or something like that
492
1293324
3326
21:48
would change those numbers.
493
1296650
1901
promenio te brojeve.
21:50
Would that be the point of view?
494
1298551
2162
Da li je to možda ugao posmatranja?
21:52
RL: Well, I'd say two things.
495
1300713
1176
RL: Rekao bih dve stvari.
21:53
One is, the reason that there hasn't been
496
1301889
1926
Prvo, razlog zašto u SAD nije bilo
21:55
a major attack in the United States since 9/11,
497
1303815
1810
velikog napada od 11. septembra
21:57
that is not an accident.
498
1305625
1556
nije slučajnost.
21:59
That's a lot of hard work that we have done,
499
1307181
2186
U to je uloženo mnogo
našeg napornog rada,
našeg napornog rada,
22:01
that other folks
500
1309367
1381
napornog rada drugih ljudi
iz obaveštajne zajednice,
iz obaveštajne zajednice,
22:02
in the intelligence community have done,
501
1310748
1383
22:04
that the military has done,
502
1312131
1181
vojske,
22:05
and that our allies around the globe have done.
503
1313312
2048
i naših saveznika širom sveta.
22:07
You've heard the numbers about
504
1315360
2451
Čuli ste za brojeve
22:09
the tip of the iceberg in terms
505
1317811
2532
koji označavaju vrh ledenog brega,
22:12
of numbers of terrorist attacks that NSA programs
506
1320343
2570
broj terorističkih napada
22:14
contributed to stopping was 54,
507
1322913
2759
koje su programi NSA sprečili je 54,
22:17
25 of those in Europe,
508
1325672
1822
od toga 25 u Evropi,
22:19
and of those 25,
509
1327494
2130
a od tih 25,
22:21
18 of them occurred in three countries,
510
1329624
2605
18 u tri države,
22:24
some of which are our allies,
511
1332229
1863
od kojih su neke naši saveznici,
22:26
and some of which are beating the heck out of us
512
1334092
2199
a neke nas kritikuju
22:28
over the NSA programs, by the way.
513
1336291
4477
zbog NSA programa.
22:32
So that's not an accident that those things happen.
514
1340768
2692
Dakle, nije slučajnost da se to dešava.
22:35
That's hard work. That's us finding intelligence
515
1343460
2325
To je naporan rad.
Mi pronalazimo informacije
Mi pronalazimo informacije
22:37
on terrorist activities
516
1345785
1830
o terorističkim aktivnostima
22:39
and interdicting them through one way or another,
517
1347615
1574
i presrećemo ih na ovaj ili onaj način,
22:41
through law enforcement,
518
1349189
1331
zakonskim putem,
22:42
through cooperative activities with other countries
519
1350520
2830
kroz saradnju sa drugim državama,
22:45
and sometimes through military action.
520
1353350
3116
ponekad vojnim putem.
22:48
The other thing I would say is that
521
1356466
2893
Drugo što bih rekao
22:51
your idea of nuclear or chem-bio-threat
522
1359359
5266
je da vaša ideja o nuklearnoj
ili biološkoj pretnji
ili biološkoj pretnji
22:56
is not at all far-fetched
523
1364625
1516
nije tako neverovatna,
22:58
and in fact there are a number of groups
524
1366141
1738
zapravo postoje određene grupe
22:59
who have for several years expressed interest
525
1367879
1887
koje se godinama interesuju
23:01
and desire in obtaining those capabilities
526
1369766
2540
i žele da pribave takve mogućnosti
23:04
and work towards that.
527
1372306
1760
i rade na tome.
23:06
CA: It's also been said that,
528
1374066
1576
KA: Takođe se govorilo da,
23:07
of those 54 alleged incidents,
529
1375642
2700
od ta 54 navodna incidenta,
23:10
that as few as zero of them
530
1378342
1848
nijedan od njih
23:12
were actually anything to do
531
1380190
1062
nije imao veze
23:13
with these controversial programs
532
1381252
1847
sa kontroverznim programima
23:15
that Mr. Snowden revealed,
533
1383099
3732
koje je gospodin Snouden otkrio,
23:18
that it was basically through
other forms of intelligence,
other forms of intelligence,
534
1386831
3917
da zapravo kroz druge obaveštajne forme
23:22
that you're looking for a needle in a haystack,
535
1390748
2890
tražite iglu u plastu sena,
23:25
and the effects of these programs,
536
1393638
1562
a da su efekti tih programa,
23:27
these controversial programs,
537
1395200
1031
tih kontroverznih programa,
23:28
is just to add hay to the stack,
538
1396231
2072
samo da dodaju seno na plast,
23:30
not to really find the needle.
539
1398303
1580
ne i da pronađu iglu.
23:31
The needle was found by other methods.
540
1399883
2082
Igla je pronađena drugim metodama.
23:33
Isn't there something to that?
541
1401965
4124
Zar nema nečega u tome?
23:38
RL: No, there's actually two programs
542
1406089
2408
RL: Ne, postoje dva programa
23:40
that are typically implicated in that discussion.
543
1408497
2417
koja se pominju u tim diskusijama.
23:42
One is the section 215 program,
544
1410914
2478
Jedan je program Člana 215,
23:45
the U.S. telephony metadata program,
545
1413392
2978
program metapodataka američke telefonije,
23:48
and the other one is
546
1416370
2040
a drugi je
23:50
popularly called the PRISM program,
547
1418410
1594
popularno nazvan program PRIZMA,
23:52
and it's actually section 702
of the FISA Amendment Act.
of the FISA Amendment Act.
548
1420004
3248
koji je u stvari Član 702
Amandmana FISA zakona.
Amandmana FISA zakona.
23:55
But the 215 program
549
1423252
4190
Ali program Člana 215
23:59
is only relevant to threats
550
1427442
1727
se odnosi samo na pretnje
24:01
that are directed against the United States,
551
1429169
2259
koje su usmerene protiv SAD-a,
24:03
and there have been a dozen threats
552
1431428
2900
i bilo je desetine takvih pretnji
24:06
where that was implicated.
553
1434328
1315
gde je to bilo uključeno.
24:07
Now what you'll see people say publicly
554
1435643
3189
Čućete da ljudi javno govore
24:10
is there is no "but for" case,
555
1438832
2036
da ne postoji slučaj "osim za",
24:12
and so there is no case where, but for that,
556
1440868
3813
ne postoji slučaj, osim tog,
24:16
the threat would have happened.
557
1444681
1701
gde bi se pretnja desila.
24:18
But that actually indicates a lack of understanding
558
1446382
4207
Ali to pokazuje nedostatak razumevanja
24:22
of how terrorist investigations actually work.
559
1450589
5117
funkcionisanja istrage o teroristima.
24:27
You think about on television,
560
1455706
1478
Na televiziji gledate
24:29
you watch a murder mystery.
561
1457184
1332
misteriozno ubistvo.
24:30
What do you start with? You start with a body,
562
1458516
1530
Odakle počinjete?
24:32
and then they work their way
from there to solve the crime.
from there to solve the crime.
563
1460046
2236
Počinjete sa telom,
pa se odatle rešava slučaj.
pa se odatle rešava slučaj.
24:34
We're actually starting well before that,
564
1462282
1531
A mi počinjemo mnogo pre toga,
24:35
hopefully before there are any bodies,
565
1463813
1501
nadam se pre nego što se tela pojave
24:37
and we're trying to build the case for
566
1465314
2433
i pokušavamo da izgradimo slučaj
24:39
who the people are, what they're trying to do,
567
1467747
2430
o tim ljudima, šta pokušavaju da urade,
24:42
and that involves massive amounts of information.
568
1470177
2850
a to uključuje ogromne količine
informacija.
informacija.
24:45
Think of it is as mosaic,
569
1473027
1481
Mislite o tome kao o mozaiku,
24:46
and it's hard to say that any one piece of a mosaic
570
1474508
2162
teško je reći da je bilo koji deo mozaika
24:48
was necessary to building the mosaic,
571
1476670
2632
neophodan za njegovu izradu,
24:51
but to build the complete picture,
572
1479302
1729
ali da biste napravili celovitu sliku,
24:53
you need to have all the pieces of information.
573
1481031
1965
potrebni su vam svi delovi informacije.
24:54
On the other, the non-U.S.-related
threats out of those 54,
threats out of those 54,
574
1482996
3105
Za ostale pretnje od onih 54,
koje se ne odnose na SAD,
koje se ne odnose na SAD,
24:58
the other 42 of them,
575
1486101
3189
za one 42,
25:01
the PRISM program was hugely relevant to that,
576
1489290
4630
program PRIZMA je bio izuzetno važan,
25:05
and in fact was material in contributing
577
1493920
2986
presudan u doprinosu
25:08
to stopping those attacks.
578
1496906
1882
zaustavljanja tih napada.
25:10
CA: Snowden said two days ago
579
1498788
1337
KA: Snouden je pre dva dana rekao
25:12
that terrorism has always been
580
1500125
3370
da je terorizam oduvek,
25:15
what is called in the intelligence world
581
1503495
2128
kako se u obaveštajnom svetu naziva,
25:17
"a cover for action,"
582
1505623
1546
"paravan za akciju",
25:19
that it's something that,
583
1507169
1937
nešto što,
25:21
because it invokes such a powerful
584
1509106
1716
zbog toga što kod ljudi izaziva
25:22
emotional response in people,
585
1510822
1839
tako snažnu emocionalnu reakciju,
25:24
it allows the initiation of these programs
586
1512661
2634
dozvoljava osnivanje ovih programa
25:27
to achieve powers that an organization like yours
587
1515295
3561
kako bi se postigle moći
koje organizacija kao što je vaša
koje organizacija kao što je vaša
25:30
couldn't otherwise have.
588
1518856
1567
drugačije ne bi mogla da ima.
25:32
Is there any internal debate about that?
589
1520423
3452
Postoji li neka interna debata
u vezi s tim?
u vezi s tim?
25:35
RL: Yeah.
590
1523875
1412
RL: Da.
25:37
I mean, we debate these things all the time,
591
1525287
2000
Mislim, o tome razgovaramo stalno,
25:39
and there is discussion that goes on
592
1527287
2759
rasprava se odvija
25:42
in the executive branch
593
1530046
1921
u izvršnoj grani
25:43
and within NSA itself
594
1531967
2063
i u samoj NSA,
25:46
and the intelligence community about
595
1534030
1655
kao i u obaveštajnoj zajendici,
25:47
what's right, what's proportionate,
596
1535685
1360
o tome šta je ispravno, odgovarajuće,
25:49
what's the correct thing to do.
597
1537045
1261
šta je dobro uraditi.
25:50
And it's important to note that the programs
598
1538306
1578
Važno je naglasiti da su programe
25:51
that we're talking about
599
1539884
1347
o kojima govorimo
25:53
were all authorized by two different presidents,
600
1541231
3402
odobrila dva različita predsednika,
25:56
two different political parties,
601
1544633
1745
dve različite političke partije,
25:58
by Congress twice,
602
1546378
2135
dva puta Kongres,
26:00
and by federal judges 16 different times,
603
1548513
3836
i 16 puta savezne sudije,
26:04
and so this is not NSA running off
604
1552349
4712
dakle nije se NSA otkačila
26:09
and doing its own thing.
605
1557061
1463
i radi nešto na svoju ruku.
26:10
This is a legitimate activity
606
1558524
2448
Ovo je legitimna aktivnost
26:12
of the United States foreign government
607
1560972
2518
inostrane politike SAD-a
26:15
that was agreed to by all the branches
608
1563490
2175
u vezi s kojom su se složile sve grane
26:17
of the United States government,
609
1565665
1984
vlade Sjedinjenih Američkih Država,
26:19
and President Madison would have been proud.
610
1567649
3049
i predsednik Medison bi bio ponosan.
26:22
CA: And yet, when congressmen discovered
611
1570698
4089
KA: Ipak, kad su ljudi u Kongresu
oktrili šta se zaista radi
sa tim ovlašćenjima,
sa tim ovlašćenjima,
26:26
what was actually being done
with that authorization,
with that authorization,
612
1574787
2230
26:29
many of them were completely shocked.
613
1577017
2869
mnogi su bili potpuno šokirani.
26:31
Or do you think that is not a legitimate reaction,
614
1579886
3346
Ili mislite da to nije
odgovarajuća reakcija,
odgovarajuća reakcija,
26:35
that it's only because it's now come out publicly,
615
1583232
2105
nego je takva samo zbog toga
što je sve obelodanjeno,
što je sve obelodanjeno,
26:37
that they really knew exactly what you were doing
616
1585337
3102
da su oni u stvari
tačno znali šta vi radite
tačno znali šta vi radite
26:40
with the powers they had granted you?
617
1588439
2336
sa ovlašćenjima koja su vam dali?
26:42
RL: Congress is a big body.
618
1590775
1674
RL: Kongres je veliko telo.
26:44
There's 535 of them,
619
1592449
1977
Ima ih 535,
26:46
and they change out frequently,
620
1594426
2141
i često se menjaju,
26:48
in the case of the House, every two years,
621
1596567
1858
u slučaju Predstavničkog doma,
na svake dve godine,
na svake dve godine,
26:50
and I think that the NSA provided
622
1598425
3776
i mislim da je NSA obezbedila
26:54
all the relevant information
to our oversight committees,
to our oversight committees,
623
1602201
3137
sve bitne informacije
našim nadzornim komitetima,
našim nadzornim komitetima,
26:57
and then the dissemination of that information
624
1605338
2278
a raspodelom tih informacija
26:59
by the oversight committees throughout Congress
625
1607616
1899
unutar Kongresa
27:01
is something that they manage.
626
1609515
2634
rukovode nadzorni komiteti.
27:04
I think I would say that Congress members
627
1612149
4856
Rekao bih da su članovi Kongresa
27:09
had the opportunity to make themselves aware,
628
1617005
3831
imali šansu da se upoznaju s tim,
27:12
and in fact a significant number of them,
629
1620836
1869
i zapravo značajan broj njih,
27:14
the ones who are assigned oversight responsibility,
630
1622705
3458
onih koji imaju odgovornost nadzora,
27:18
did have the ability to do that.
631
1626163
1174
imao je sposobnost za to.
27:19
And you've actually had the chairs of
those committees say that in public.
those committees say that in public.
632
1627337
3938
I predsedavajući tih komiteta
su to javno i rekli.
su to javno i rekli.
27:23
CA: Now, you mentioned the
threat of cyberattacks,
threat of cyberattacks,
633
1631275
1557
KA: Pomenuli ste opasnost
od sajber napada,
od sajber napada,
27:24
and I don't think anyone in this room would disagree
634
1632832
2167
mislim da se svi slažu
27:26
that that is a huge concern,
635
1634999
1890
da je to velika briga,
27:28
but do you accept that there's a tradeoff
636
1636889
1834
ali da li prihvatate postojanje kompromisa
27:30
between offensive and defensive strategies,
637
1638723
2411
između strategija napada i odbrane,
27:33
and that it's possible that the very measures taken
638
1641134
2825
i da je moguće da su mere
koje su preduzete
koje su preduzete
27:35
to, "weaken encryption,"
639
1643959
2669
da "oslabe enkripciju"
27:38
and allow yourself to find the bad guys,
640
1646628
2153
kako bi se pronašli loši momci,
27:40
might also open the door to forms of cyberattack?
641
1648781
4273
takođe otvorile vrata raznim oblicima
sajber napada?
sajber napada?
27:45
RL: So I think two things.
642
1653054
2843
RL: Mislim dve stvari.
27:47
One is, you said weaken encryption. I didn't.
643
1655897
3847
Prvo, rekli ste da se oslabi enkripcija.
Ja nisam.
Ja nisam.
27:51
And the other one is that
644
1659744
5126
Drugo,
27:56
the NSA has both of those missions,
645
1664870
2776
NSA ima obe te misije,
27:59
and we are heavily biased towards defense,
646
1667646
2281
i naročito naginjemo odbrani,
28:01
and, actually, the vulnerabilities that we find
647
1669927
3517
i zapravo osetljivosti koje nalazimo
28:05
in the overwhelming majority of cases,
648
1673444
2101
u velikoj većini slučajeva,
28:07
we disclose to the people who are responsible
649
1675545
2773
mi obelodanimo onima koji su odgovorni
28:10
for manufacturing or developing those products.
650
1678318
3363
za proizvodnju i razvoj tih proizvoda.
28:13
We have a great track record of that,
651
1681681
1383
Imamo dosta uspeha u tome,
28:15
and we're actually working on a proposal right now
652
1683064
1986
i trenutno radimo na predlogu
28:17
to be transparent and to
publish transparency reports
publish transparency reports
653
1685050
3170
transparentnosti i objavljivanja izveštaja
28:20
in the same way that the Internet companies
654
1688220
2886
na isti način
na koji je internet kompanijama
na koji je internet kompanijama
28:23
are being allowed to publish
transparency reports for them.
transparency reports for them.
655
1691106
3867
dozvoljeno da objavljuju
svoje izveštaje o transparentnosti.
svoje izveštaje o transparentnosti.
28:26
We want to be more transparent about that.
656
1694973
1998
Želimo da budemo transparentniji
u vezi s tim.
u vezi s tim.
28:28
So again, we eat our own dog food.
657
1696971
3129
Dakle, opet, mi koristimo svoje proizvode.
28:32
We use the standards, we use the products
658
1700100
2253
Koristimo standarde, proizvode
28:34
that we recommend,
659
1702353
2655
koje preporučujemo
28:37
and so it's in our interest
660
1705008
2295
i u našem je interesu
28:39
to keep our communications protected
661
1707303
2638
da su naše komunikacije zaštićene
28:41
in the same way that other people's need to be.
662
1709941
3804
na isti način kao i komunikacije drugih.
28:45
CA: Edward Snowden,
663
1713745
3190
KA: Kada je Edvard Snouden,
28:48
when, after his talk, was wandering the halls here
664
1716935
4428
posle svog govora šetao hodnicima ovde,
28:53
in the bot,
665
1721363
1245
putem robota,
28:54
and I heard him say to a couple of people,
666
1722608
2188
čuo sam da su ga neki upitali
28:56
they asked him about what he thought
667
1724796
1617
šta misli
28:58
of the NSA overall,
668
1726413
1593
o NSA generalno,
29:00
and he was very complimentary about the people
669
1728006
2773
a on je veoma pohvalio ljude
29:02
who work with you,
670
1730779
2021
koji rade s vama,
29:04
said that it's a really
671
1732800
3923
rekao da je to
nadahnuta grupa radnika
29:08
impassioned group of employees
672
1736723
1960
29:10
who are seeking to do the right thing,
673
1738683
2449
koji žele da urade pravu stvar,
29:13
and that the problems have come from
674
1741132
2954
a da su problemi nastali
29:16
just some badly conceived policies.
675
1744086
3119
od loše uobličenih pravila.
29:19
He came over certainly very reasonably and calmly.
676
1747205
4445
Ostavio je utisak veoma razumnog
i mirnog čoveka.
i mirnog čoveka.
29:23
He didn't come over like a crazy man.
677
1751650
2175
Nije delovao kao ludak.
29:25
Would you accept that at least,
678
1753825
1970
Da li biste prihvatili,
29:27
even if you disagree with how he did it,
679
1755795
3016
čak iako se ne slažete
sa njegovim načinom,
sa njegovim načinom,
29:30
that he has opened a debate that matters?
680
1758811
4024
da je pokrenuo važnu debatu?
29:34
RL: So I think that the discussion
681
1762835
2398
RL: Pa mislim da je to
29:37
is an important one to have.
682
1765233
1864
jedna važna diskusija.
29:39
I do not like the way that he did it.
683
1767097
3376
Ne dopada mi se način
na koji je to uradio.
na koji je to uradio.
29:42
I think there were a number of other ways
684
1770473
2005
Mislim da je bilo mnogo drugih načina
29:44
that he could have done that
685
1772478
1462
na koje je mogao da to uradi,
29:45
that would have not endangered our people
686
1773940
3296
koji ne bi ugrozili naše ljude
29:49
and the people of other nations
687
1777236
2648
i ljude drugih nacija
29:51
through losing visibility
688
1779884
2111
kroz gubljenje uvida
29:53
into what our adversaries are doing.
689
1781995
2731
u to šta rade naši protivnici.
29:56
But I do think it's an important conversation.
690
1784726
2686
Ali mislim da je ovo važna rasprava.
29:59
CA: It's been reported that there's
691
1787412
1539
KA: Priča se
30:00
almost a difference of opinion
692
1788951
2109
da postoje skoro različita mišljenja
30:03
with you and your colleagues
693
1791060
1471
između vas i vaših kolega
30:04
over any scenario in which
694
1792531
2053
u vezi sa situacijom
30:06
he might be offered an amnesty deal.
695
1794584
2603
u kojoj bi mu mogla
biti ponuđena amnestija.
biti ponuđena amnestija.
30:09
I think your boss, General Keith Alexander,
696
1797187
2711
Mislim da je vaš šef,
general Kit Aleksander,
general Kit Aleksander,
30:11
has said that that would be a terrible example
697
1799898
1986
rekao da bi to bio užasan primer
30:13
for others;
698
1801884
1465
za druge;
30:15
you can't negotiate with someone
699
1803349
1657
ne možete pregovarati sa nekim
30:17
who's broken the law in that way.
700
1805006
2008
ko je na taj način prekršio zakon.
30:19
But you've been quoted as saying that,
701
1807014
2009
Ali vi ste navodno rekli da,
30:21
if Snowden could prove that he was surrendering
702
1809023
3208
ako Snouden može da dokaže
da je predao sve neobjavljenje dokumente,
30:24
all undisclosed documents,
703
1812231
1796
30:26
that a deal maybe should be considered.
704
1814027
2239
da bi se razmislilo o nagodbi.
30:28
Do you still think that?
705
1816266
2970
Da li i dalje tako mislite?
30:31
RL: Yeah, so actually,
706
1819236
1518
RL: Da, pa zapravo,
30:32
this is my favorite thing about
that "60 Minutes" interview
that "60 Minutes" interview
707
1820754
2583
moja omiljena stvar u vezi sa emisijom
"60 minuta"
"60 minuta"
30:35
was all the misquotes that came from that.
708
1823337
1712
je koliko sam pogrešno citiran.
30:37
What I actually said, in
response to a question about,
response to a question about,
709
1825049
2915
Na pitanje o tome
30:39
would you entertain any discussions
710
1827964
1812
da li bih diskutovao
30:41
of mitigating action against Snowden,
711
1829776
6385
o manjoj kazni za Snoudena,
30:48
I said, yeah, it's worth a conversation.
712
1836161
1832
rekao sam da, vredno je razgovora.
30:49
This is something that the attorney general
713
1837993
1635
To je nešto o čemu su državni tužilac
30:51
of the United States and the president also
714
1839628
1930
i predsednik Sjedninjenih Država
30:53
actually have both talked about this,
715
1841558
1538
već razgovarali,
30:55
and I defer to the attorney general,
716
1843096
1369
a pominjem državnog tužioca
30:56
because this is his lane.
717
1844465
1547
jer je to njegova oblast.
30:58
But there is a strong tradition
718
1846012
2509
Ali u američkom pravu
31:00
in American jurisprudence
719
1848521
3192
postoji jaka tradicija
31:03
of having discussions with people
720
1851713
4575
razgovora sa ljudima
31:08
who have been charged with crimes in order to,
721
1856288
1844
koji su optuženi za zločine,
31:10
if it benefits the government,
722
1858132
1516
kako bi, ako to vladi odgovara,
31:11
to get something out of that,
723
1859648
2378
moglo nešto da se izvuče iz toga,
31:14
that there's always room for that kind of discussion.
724
1862026
2634
dakle uvek ima mesta za takvu diskusiju.
31:16
So I'm not presupposing any outcome,
725
1864660
1689
Ne predviđam nikakav ishod,
31:18
but there is always room for discussion.
726
1866349
3736
ali uvek ima mesta za diskusiju.
31:22
CA: To a lay person it seems like
727
1870085
1600
KA: Laiku izgleda
31:23
he has certain things to offer the U.S.,
728
1871685
3368
kao da on ima nešto da ponudi SAD-u,
31:27
the government, you, others,
729
1875053
1739
vladi, vama, drugima,
31:28
in terms of putting things right
730
1876792
1681
kako bi ispravio stvari
31:30
and helping figure out a smarter policy,
731
1878473
2058
i pomogao u osmišljavanju
pametnije politike,
pametnije politike,
31:32
a smarter way forward for the future.
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pametnijeg puta u budućnost.
31:38
Do you see, has that kind of possibility
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Da li je takva mogućnost
31:41
been entertained at all?
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uopšte razmatrana?
31:43
RL: So that's out of my lane.
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RL: Pa, to nije moj posao.
31:45
That's not an NSA thing.
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To nije posao za NSA.
31:46
That would be a Department of Justice
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To bi bilo za Ministarstvo pravde,
31:48
sort of discussion.
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njihova diskusija.
31:51
I'll defer to them.
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Obratio bih se njima.
31:54
CA: Rick, when Ed Snowden ended his talk,
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KA: Rik, kada je Ed Snouden
završio svoj govor
završio svoj govor
31:57
I offered him the chance to
share an idea worth spreading.
share an idea worth spreading.
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ponudio sam mu da predstavi
neku ideju vrednu širenja.
neku ideju vrednu širenja.
32:01
What would be your idea worth spreading
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Koja je vaša ideja vredna deljenja
32:02
for this group?
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sa ovom publikom?
32:05
RL: So I think, learn the facts.
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RL: Dakle, saznajte činjenice.
32:07
This is a really important conversation,
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Ovo je veoma važan razgovor
32:09
and it impacts, it's not just NSA,
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i utiče ne samo na NSA,
32:11
it's not just the government,
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ne samo na vladu,
32:13
it's you, it's the Internet companies.
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nego i na vas, i na internet kompanije.
32:16
The issue of privacy and personal data
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Problem privatnosti i ličnih podataka
32:19
is much bigger than just the government,
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je mnogo veći od vlade,
32:20
and so learn the facts.
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dakle saznajte činjenice.
32:22
Don't rely on headlines,
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Ne oslanjajte se na naslove,
32:24
don't rely on sound bites,
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na deliće informacija,
32:25
don't rely on one-sided conversations.
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na jednostrane razgovore.
32:28
So that's the idea, I think, worth spreading.
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Mislim da je to ideja vredna širenja.
32:31
We have a sign, a badge tab,
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Imam značku,
32:34
we wear badges at work with lanyards,
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na poslu nosimo značke na vrpci,
32:36
and if I could make a plug,
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i ako mogu da kažem,
32:38
my badge lanyard at work says, "Dallas Cowboys."
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na mojoj vrpci piše "Kauboji Dalasa".
32:41
Go Dallas.
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Napred Dalas.
32:44
I've just alienated half the audience, I know.
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Znam da sam sad udaljio polovinu publike.
32:47
So the lanyard that our people
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Vrpca koju nose naši ljudi
32:51
who work in the organization
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koji rade u organizaciji
32:52
that does our crypto-analytic work
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koja se bavi kripto-analizom,
32:55
have a tab that says, "Look at the data."
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kaže: "Gledajte podatke".
32:57
So that's the idea worth spreading.
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To je ideja vredna širenja.
32:58
Look at the data.
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Gledajte podatke.
33:01
CA: Rick, it took a certain amount of courage,
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KA: Rik, bilo je potrebno hrabrosti
33:03
I think, actually, to come and speak openly
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da dođete i otvoreno govorite
33:06
to this group.
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pred ovom publikom.
33:07
It's not something the NSA
has done a lot of in the past,
has done a lot of in the past,
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Tako nešto NSA nije ranije radila,
33:10
and plus the technology has been challenging.
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a i tehnološki je bilo izazovno.
33:13
We truly appreciate you doing that
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Zaista cenimo što ste bili
33:15
and sharing in this very important conversation.
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i učestvovali u ovom
veoma važnom razgovoru.
veoma važnom razgovoru.
33:17
Thank you so much.
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Mnogo vam hvala.
33:19
RL: Thanks, Chris.
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RL: Hvala, Kris.
33:21
(Applause)
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(Aplauz)
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Richard Ledgett - Deputy director, NSARichard Ledgett is deputy director and senior civilian leader of the National Security Agency. He acts as the agency’s chief operating officer, responsible for guiding and directing studies, operations and policy.
Why you should listen
Richard Ledgett began his NSA career in 1988 and has served in operational, management, and technical leadership positions at the branch, division, office, and group levels. Now, think of him as the COO of the NSA, guiding and directing studies, operations and policy. From 2012 to 2013 he was the Director of the NSA/CSS Threat Operations Center, responsible for round-the-clock cryptologic activities to discover and counter adversary cyber efforts. Prior to NTOC he served in several positions from 2010 to 2012 in the Office of the Director of National Intelligence in both the collection and cyber mission areas. He was the first National Intelligence Manager for Cyber, serving as principal advisor to the Director of National Intelligence on all cyber matters, leading development of the Unified Intelligence Strategy for Cyber, and coordinating cyber activities across the Intelligence Community (IC). Previous positions at NSA include Deputy Director for Analysis and Production (2009-2010), Deputy Director for Data Acquisition (2006-2009), Assistant Deputy Director for Data Acquisition (2005-2006), and Chief, NSA/CSS Pacific (2002-2005). He also served in a joint IC operational activity, and as an instructor and course developer at the National Cryptologic School.
He led the NSA Media Leaks Task Force from June 2013 to January 2014, and was responsible for integrating and overseeing the totality of NSA’s efforts surrounding the unauthorized disclosures of classified information by a former NSA affiliate.
Richard Ledgett | Speaker | TED.com