TED2014
Richard Ledgett: The NSA responds to Edward Snowden's TED Talk
理查德‧莱杰特: 国安局回应斯诺登的 TED 演讲
Filmed:
Readability: 4.7
1,250,044 views
在爱德华‧斯诺登出其不意地出现于 TED2014 大会之后，克里斯‧安德森说：“如果美国国安局想对此作出回应，请便。”于是，国安局回应了。通过视频，国安局副局长理查德‧莱杰特答复了安德森的问题，并且谈论如何在保护国家安全与民众隐私之间求取平衡。
Richard Ledgett - Deputy director, NSA
Richard Ledgett is deputy director and senior civilian leader of the National Security Agency. He acts as the agency’s chief operating officer, responsible for guiding and directing studies, operations and policy. Full bio
Richard Ledgett is deputy director and senior civilian leader of the National Security Agency. He acts as the agency’s chief operating officer, responsible for guiding and directing studies, operations and policy. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:12
Chris Anderson: We had Edward Snowden here
0
690
2170
克里斯‧安德森：爱德华‧斯诺登
00:14
a couple days ago,
1
2860
1538
数天前在这里发表演说，
00:16
and this is response time.
2
4398
2343
现在是应答时间。
00:18
And several of you have written to me
3
6741
2255
我收到来自你们的反馈
00:20
with questions to ask our guest here from the NSA.
4
8996
4643
有些问题想要询问，
这位来自美国国家安全局的客人。
这位来自美国国家安全局的客人。
00:25
So Richard Ledgett is the 15th deputy director
5
13639
2348
理查德‧莱杰特是第15任
00:27
of the National Security Agency,
6
15987
2565
美国国安局副局长，
00:30
and he's a senior civilian officer there,
7
18552
3286
他是一名资深的文职官员，
00:33
acts as its chief operating officer,
8
21838
1985
是首席运营官，
00:35
guiding strategies, setting internal policies,
9
23823
3270
指导策略，制定内部政策，
00:39
and serving as the principal advisor to the director.
10
27093
4380
并担任国安局局长的首席顾问。
00:43
And all being well,
11
31473
1876
一切都很顺利，
00:45
welcome, Rick Ledgett, to TED.
12
33349
3516
欢迎理查德‧莱杰特
来到 TED 讲台。
来到 TED 讲台。
00:48
(Applause)
13
36865
5326
（掌声）
00:55
Richard Ledgett: I'm really thankful for the opportunity to talk to folks here.
14
43535
3748
理查德‧莱杰特: 我非常感谢有这个机会，
能在这里和大家交流。
能在这里和大家交流。
00:59
I look forward to the conversation,
15
47283
1954
我非常期待这次的交谈，
01:01
so thanks for arranging for that.
16
49237
2982
谢谢你的安排。
01:04
CA: Thank you, Rick.
17
52219
1538
克里斯‧安德森： 谢谢你，理查德。
01:05
We appreciate you joining us.
18
53757
2567
我们感到十分荣幸。
01:08
It's certainly quite a strong statement
19
56324
2167
这是相当有力的声明
01:10
that the NSA is willing to reach out
20
58491
1987
表现出美国国家安全局
是愿意接触公众的，
是愿意接触公众的，
01:12
and show a more open face here.
21
60478
3997
同时表现出更加开放的态度。
01:16
You saw, I think,
22
64475
1953
我认为，
01:18
the talk and interview that Edward Snowden
23
66428
3893
几天前在这里，
01:22
gave here a couple days ago.
24
70321
944
我们和爱德华‧斯诺登的对谈。
01:23
What did you make of it?
25
71265
2439
你有怎样的评论呢？
01:25
RL: So I think it was interesting.
26
73704
3151
理查德‧莱杰特：我认为这很有趣。
01:28
We didn't realize that he
was going to show up there,
was going to show up there,
27
76855
2887
我们没想到他会在那里出现，
01:31
so kudos to you guys for arranging
28
79742
3133
感谢你们安排
01:34
a nice surprise like that.
29
82875
2703
这样有趣的惊喜。
01:37
I think that, like a lot of the things
30
85578
5373
我认为，像很多的事情爆发出来
01:42
that have come out since Mr. Snowden
31
90951
4519
自从斯诺登先生
01:47
started disclosing classified information,
32
95470
2565
开始披露保密信息资料，
01:50
there were some kernels of truth in there,
33
98035
3466
有一些是事实真相，
01:53
but a lot of extrapolations and half-truths in there,
34
101501
3494
但也带有大量的猜测
和半真半假的故事，
和半真半假的故事，
01:56
and I'm interested in helping to address those.
35
104995
2523
我很乐意就此提出见解。
01:59
I think this is a really important conversation
36
107518
2320
我认为这是一个非常重要的对话
02:01
that we're having in the United States
37
109838
1532
对美国
02:03
and internationally,
38
111370
1515
和在国际社会来说都是这样，
02:04
and I think it is important and of import,
39
112885
4409
我认为这是至关重要的，
02:09
and so given that, we need to have that be
40
117294
3460
因此我们需要的是
02:12
a fact-based conversation,
41
120754
1400
基于事实的对话，
02:14
and we want to help make that happen.
42
122154
2452
我们愿意为此做出努力。
02:16
CA: So the question that a lot
of people have here is,
of people have here is,
43
124606
4617
克里斯‧安德森:
在这儿，很多人感到好奇的问题是，
在这儿，很多人感到好奇的问题是，
02:21
what do you make of Snowden's motivations
44
129223
2914
你认为斯诺登的动机是什么
02:24
for doing what he did,
45
132137
2251
他为什么要这样做，
02:26
and did he have an alternative
way that he could have gone?
way that he could have gone?
46
134388
4490
他有其他选择吗？
02:30
RL: He absolutely did
47
138878
2339
理查德‧莱杰特：他绝对有
02:33
have alternative ways that he could have gone,
48
141217
4198
除此之外的多种选择，
02:37
and I actually think that characterizing him
49
145415
5594
我认为
作为一名歇发者
02:43
as a whistleblower
50
151009
1990
02:44
actually hurts legitimate whistleblowing activities.
51
152999
3528
实际上伤害正当的揭秘活动。
02:48
So what if somebody who works in the NSA --
52
156527
3571
如果一个为美国国家安全局工作的人，
02:52
and there are over 35,000 people who do.
53
160098
3004
我们有超过 35000 名雇员。
02:55
They're all great citizens.
54
163102
2353
他们都是好公民。
02:57
They're just like your husbands, fathers, sisters,
55
165455
2303
他们只是普通人，
像是你的丈夫，父亲，姐妹们，
像是你的丈夫，父亲，姐妹们，
02:59
brothers, neighbors, nephews, friends and relatives,
56
167758
4217
兄弟，邻居，侄子，朋友，亲戚，
03:03
all of whom are interested in doing the right thing
57
171975
2170
他们都致力于
03:06
for their country
58
174145
1187
为国家
03:07
and for our allies internationally,
59
175332
3034
和我们在国际上的盟友效力，
03:10
and so there are a variety of venues to address
60
178366
4082
如果工作人员遇到一些困扰
03:14
if folks have a concern.
61
182448
1174
有很多方式可以解决。
03:15
First off, there's their supervisor,
62
183622
1923
首先，他们有上司，
03:17
and up through the supervisory chain
63
185545
2692
并且通过监管链向上
03:20
within their organization.
64
188237
1742
在他们的组织内部。
03:21
If folks aren't comfortable with that,
65
189979
1647
如果工作人员对这样的方式
感到不满意，
感到不满意，
03:23
there are a number of inspectors general.
66
191626
2355
我们有许多监察人员
可以帮助处理问题。
可以帮助处理问题。
03:25
In the case of Mr. Snowden, he had the option
67
193981
3541
就斯诺登先生的问题而言，
他可以寻求
他可以寻求
03:29
of the NSA inspector general,
68
197522
1925
美国国家安全局监察长，
03:31
the Navy inspector general,
69
199447
1320
海军总监察长，
03:32
the Pacific Command inspector general,
70
200767
1567
太平洋司令部监察长，
03:34
the Department of Defense inspector general,
71
202334
1910
国防部门监察长，
03:36
and the intelligence community inspector general,
72
204244
2106
和情报系统监察长，
03:38
any of whom would have both kept
his concerns in classified channels
his concerns in classified channels
73
206350
4318
他们中的任何一位都会
将这样的问题归类
将这样的问题归类
03:42
and been happy to address them.
74
210668
2631
并且乐于帮助解决。
03:45
(CA and RL speaking at once)
75
213299
2277
（CA 和 RL 同时讲话）
03:47
He had the option to go to
congressional committees,
congressional committees,
76
215576
2603
他可以选择去国会，
03:50
and there are mechanisms
to do that that are in place,
to do that that are in place,
77
218179
3119
是有解决机制的，
03:53
and so he didn't do any of those things.
78
221298
2539
然而他没有寻求
上述任何一种方式。
上述任何一种方式。
03:55
CA: Now, you had said that
79
223837
2990
克里斯‧安德森：你刚刚说到，
03:58
Ed Snowden had other avenues
80
226827
2229
斯诺登有其他的途径
04:01
for raising his concerns.
81
229056
2695
来寻求解决他的问题。
04:03
The comeback on that is a couple of things:
82
231751
3326
主要有这样几件事情：
04:07
one, that he certainly believes that as a contractor,
83
235077
3810
首先，他肯定认为，
作为一名合同工，
作为一名合同工，
04:10
the avenues that would have been available
to him as an employee weren't available,
to him as an employee weren't available,
84
238887
3761
原本可以追溯的途径
却由于他是雇员而是不可用的，
却由于他是雇员而是不可用的，
04:14
two, there's a track record of other whistleblowers,
85
242648
3431
第二，其他揭发者的记录，
04:18
like [Thomas Andrews Drake] being treated
86
246079
2611
像是 [托马斯‧安德鲁斯‧德雷克]
04:20
pretty harshly, by some views,
87
248690
3147
很多人认为，
受到了不好的对待，
受到了不好的对待，
04:23
and thirdly, what he was taking on
88
251837
1653
第三，就他所看到的问题
04:25
was not one specific flaw that he'd discovered,
89
253490
3337
并不是一种具体的缺陷，
04:28
but programs that had been approved
90
256827
1971
而是，这样的程序已全被
04:30
by all three branches of government.
91
258798
2941
三个政府部门批准了。
04:33
I mean, in that circumstance,
92
261739
2799
我的意思是，在这种情况下，
04:36
couldn't you argue that what he did
93
264538
2403
你认为他做的事情
04:38
was reasonable?
94
266941
2266
是否合理？
04:41
RL: No, I don't agree with that.
95
269207
2313
理查德‧莱杰特： 不，我不同意。
04:43
I think that the —
96
271520
3737
我认为 — —
04:47
sorry, I'm getting feedback
97
275257
2135
对不起，我听到
04:49
through the microphone there —
98
277392
3557
那里的麦克风有些噪音 — —
04:52
the actions that he took were inappropriate
99
280949
4827
他的行动是不适当的，
04:57
because of the fact that
he put people's lives at risk,
he put people's lives at risk,
100
285776
4775
因为他给人们的生活带来风险，
05:02
basically, in the long run,
101
290551
1472
基本上，从长远来看，
05:04
and I know there's been a lot of talk
102
292023
1564
我知道在公共场合
05:05
in public by Mr. Snowden
and some of the journalists
and some of the journalists
103
293587
4664
斯诺登先生和一些记者
05:10
that say that the things that have been disclosed
104
298251
3430
说已披露的事情
05:13
have not put national security and people at risk,
105
301681
4195
没有给国家安全和人民带来风险，
05:17
and that is categorically not true.
106
305876
4294
这绝对不是真实的。
05:22
They actually do.
107
310170
1907
事实上是有风险的。
05:24
I think there's also an amazing arrogance
108
312077
2841
我认为他令人惊异地骄傲自大，
05:26
to the idea that he knows better than
109
314918
4135
仿佛他比制宪者
05:31
the framers of the Constitution
110
319053
3295
知道更多
05:34
in how the government should
be designed and work
be designed and work
111
322348
2379
有关政府该
05:36
for separation of powers
112
324727
2142
如何治理与分权。
05:38
and the fact that the executive
and the legislative branch
and the legislative branch
113
326869
6447
事实上，行政部门和立法部门
05:45
have to work together and they have
checks and balances on each other,
checks and balances on each other,
114
333316
2611
合作同时也彼此制衡，
05:47
and then the judicial branch,
115
335927
1534
还有司法部门
05:49
which oversees the entire process.
116
337461
1436
负责监督整个过程。
05:50
I think that's extremely arrogant on his part.
117
338897
4221
我认为他这样的想法是
非常傲慢自大的。
非常傲慢自大的。
05:55
CA: Can you give a specific example
118
343118
2306
克里斯‧安德森：
请给出一个具体的例子好吗？
请给出一个具体的例子好吗？
05:57
of how he put people's lives at risk?
119
345424
3456
有关他是如何将人们置于危险中的？
06:00
RL: Yeah, sure.
120
348880
1997
理查德‧莱杰特：好，没问题。
06:02
So the things that he's disclosed,
121
350877
3394
他已透露的情报，
06:06
the capabilities,
122
354271
1515
国安局的能力，
06:07
and the NSA is a capabilities-based organization,
123
355786
2442
和美国国家安全局是一个
基于能力的组织，
基于能力的组织，
06:10
so when we have foreign intelligence targets,
124
358228
3874
因此，当我们有境外情报目标，
06:14
legitimate things of interest --
125
362102
1631
合法的感兴趣的事 — —
06:15
like, terrorists is the iconic example,
126
363733
2010
恐怖分子是个标志性的例子，
06:17
but it includes things like human traffickers,
127
365743
3094
但它也包括了像是贩卖人口，
06:20
drug traffickers,
128
368837
1862
贩卖毒品，
06:22
people who are trying to build
advanced weaponry, nuclear weapons,
advanced weaponry, nuclear weapons,
129
370699
3964
建造先进武器，
核武器的人，
核武器的人，
06:26
and build delivery systems for those,
130
374663
1963
为其提供运输途径的人，
06:28
and nation-states who might be executing aggression against their immediate neighbors,
131
376626
3631
那些可能侵犯其近邻的国家，
06:32
which you may have some visibility
132
380257
2594
当发现这样的情况
06:34
into some of that that's going on right now,
133
382851
2754
和正在发生的这样的情况，
06:37
the capabilities are applied
134
385605
3962
我们要让能力得到
06:41
in very discrete and measured and controlled ways.
135
389567
5001
分散的，指挥的，受控制的运用。
06:46
So the unconstrained disclosure
of those capabilities
of those capabilities
136
394568
2788
因此，不受约束地披露这样的能力
06:49
means that as adversaries see them
137
397356
2284
就意味着，对手会得到讯息
06:51
and recognize, "Hey, I might be vulnerable to this,"
138
399640
2363
并意识到，"嘿，我有这个弱点，"
06:54
they move away from that,
139
402003
1567
他们就会避开，
06:55
and we have seen targets in terrorism,
140
403570
3209
我们看到恐怖主义的目标，
06:58
in the nation-state area,
141
406779
2132
在民族国家范围，
07:00
in smugglers of various types, and other folks
142
408911
3002
在各种走私方式，
07:03
who have, because of the disclosures,
143
411913
1953
有些人，得益于这样的能力披露，
07:05
moved away from our ability
144
413866
2935
得以逃脱我们的视线，
07:08
to have insight into what they're doing.
145
416801
2088
我们很难得到
有关他们行踪的情报。
有关他们行踪的情报。
07:10
The net effect of that is that our people
146
418889
2964
这样产生的效应是
07:13
who are overseas in dangerous places,
147
421853
1893
我们在海外危险地区的工作人员，
07:15
whether they're diplomats or military,
148
423746
1864
无论他们是外交或是军事人员，
07:17
and our allies who are in similar situations,
149
425610
2591
还有我们处于同样境地的盟友，
07:20
are at greater risk because we don't see
150
428201
2859
处于更大的风险中，
因为我们无法知晓
因为我们无法知晓
07:23
the threats that are coming their way.
151
431060
2951
即将到来的对他们的威胁。
07:26
CA: So that's a general response saying that
152
434011
2059
克里斯‧安德森：
总的来说，你的回应是
总的来说，你的回应是
07:28
because of his revelations,
153
436070
2097
由于他的揭露行为，
07:30
access that you had to certain types of information
154
438167
2866
你对某些信息的接触管道
07:33
has been shut down, has been closed down.
155
441033
3571
被关闭了。
07:36
But the concern is that the nature of that access
156
444604
3549
但关注点是，这种接触的性质
07:40
was not necessarily legitimate in the first place.
157
448153
3704
首先就不需要是合法的。
07:43
I mean, describe to us this Bullrun program
158
451857
2782
我的意思是，请给我们描述一下
这个布尔溪程序，
这个布尔溪程序，
07:46
where it's alleged that the NSA
159
454639
2129
它宣称美国国家安全局
07:48
specifically weakened security
160
456768
2385
为了得到你所说的
那种信息的接触管道
那种信息的接触管道
07:51
in order to get the type of
access that you've spoken of.
access that you've spoken of.
161
459153
4569
是削弱了我们的安全的。
07:55
RL: So there are, when our
162
463722
5141
理查德‧莱杰特：是的，当我们
08:00
legitimate foreign intelligence targets
of the type that I described before,
of the type that I described before,
163
468863
2712
有我之前描述过的类型的
合法的外国情报目标，
合法的外国情报目标，
08:03
use the global telecommunications system
164
471575
3036
使用全球电信系统
08:06
as their communications methodology,
165
474611
2083
作为他们的通信方式，
08:08
and they do, because it's a great system,
166
476694
1414
他们这样做是因为
这是一个很棒的系统，
这是一个很棒的系统，
08:10
it's the most complex system ever devised by man,
167
478108
2838
它是人类所能设计出来的
最复杂的系统，
最复杂的系统，
08:12
and it is a wonder,
168
480946
1647
它是一个奇迹，
08:14
and lots of folks in the room there
169
482593
1604
很多工作人员在房间里
08:16
are responsible for the creation
170
484197
2351
负责创造
08:18
and enhancement of that,
171
486548
1369
和增强其应用
08:19
and it's just a wonderful thing.
172
487917
2873
它是很好的系统。
08:22
But it's also used by people who are
173
490790
2497
但是用他的人也包括那些
08:25
working against us and our allies.
174
493287
2031
对抗我们和我们盟友的人。
08:27
And so if I'm going to pursue them,
175
495318
2431
因此，如果我们要去追击他们，
08:29
I need to have the capability
176
497749
1735
就需要具备这样那样的能力
08:31
to go after them,
177
499484
2175
去找到他们，
08:33
and again, the controls are in
178
501659
2826
再重申一次，将控件的
08:36
how I apply that capability,
179
504485
2521
我该如何运用这种能力，
08:39
not that I have the capability itself.
180
507006
2246
不是我本身所拥有的能力。
08:41
Otherwise, if we could make it so that
181
509252
1772
不然，如果我们能这样做
08:43
all the bad guys used one corner of the Internet,
182
511024
2186
所有使用互联网的坏人
08:45
we could have a domain, badguy.com.
183
513210
1956
我们可以有个域名，badguy.com。
08:47
That would be awesome,
184
515166
1494
这会很棒，
08:48
and we could just concentrate all our efforts there.
185
516660
2142
我们可以把所有的心血专注于此。
08:50
That's not how it works.
186
518802
1332
可惜并不是这样。
08:52
They're trying to hide
187
520134
2211
他们试图
08:54
from the government's ability
188
522345
1805
躲避政府
08:56
to isolate and interdict their actions,
189
524150
3283
隔离并阻截他们的能力，
08:59
and so we have to swim in that same space.
190
527433
2812
所以我们必须在
同一空间内活动。
同一空间内活动。
09:02
But I will tell you this.
191
530245
1602
我要说的是，
09:03
So NSA has two missions.
192
531847
1479
美国国家安全局有两个任务。
09:05
One is the Signals Intelligence mission
193
533326
1450
一是的信号情报任务
09:06
that we've unfortunately read so
much about in the press.
much about in the press.
194
534776
3627
很遗憾，我们从媒体上读到了很多。
09:10
The other one is the Information Assurance mission,
195
538403
1738
另一个是信息安全保障任务，
09:12
which is to protect the national security
systems of the United States,
systems of the United States,
196
540141
2911
这是为了保护美国的国家安全系统，
09:15
and by that, that's things like
197
543052
1968
我们所保护的通信包括下列这些
09:17
the communications that the president uses,
198
545020
2016
美国总统的通信往来，
09:19
the communications that
control our nuclear weapons,
control our nuclear weapons,
199
547036
2605
管理核武器的通信，
09:21
the communications that our
military uses around the world,
military uses around the world,
200
549641
2269
我们世界范围内的军事通信，
09:23
and the communications that we use with our allies,
201
551910
2491
我们与盟友共同使用的通信，
09:26
and that some of our allies themselves use.
202
554401
1724
盟友间的通信。
09:28
And so we make recommendations
on standards to use,
on standards to use,
203
556125
5837
所以我们提出
使用标准的建议，
使用标准的建议，
09:33
and we use those same standards,
204
561962
1827
我们也使用相同的标准，
09:35
and so we are invested
205
563789
1878
我们投入
09:37
in making sure that those communications
206
565667
2245
以确保使这些通信
09:39
are secure for their intended purposes.
207
567912
3613
是安全的。
09:43
CA: But it sounds like what you're saying is that
208
571525
1949
克里斯‧安德森：
你的意思是，
你的意思是，
09:45
when it comes to the Internet at large,
209
573474
3745
以互联网整体来看，
09:49
any strategy is fair game
210
577219
2627
任何战略都是公平的游戏
09:51
if it improves America's safety.
211
579846
2916
只要它提高了美国的安全水平。
09:54
And I think this is partly where there is such
212
582762
2058
我想这就是出现
09:56
a divide of opinion,
213
584820
1385
不同观点的部分，
09:58
that there's a lot of people in this room
214
586205
1250
很多人，包括这个房间里
09:59
and around the world
215
587455
1373
和世界各地的人们
10:00
who think very differently about the Internet.
216
588828
1650
对互联网有不同看法。
10:02
They think of it as a momentous
217
590478
2987
他们认为互联网是重大的
10:05
invention of humanity,
218
593465
1598
人类发明，
10:07
kind of on a par with the
Gutenberg press, for example.
Gutenberg press, for example.
219
595063
3164
可以与古腾堡印刷机相提并论。
10:10
It's the bringer of knowledge to all.
220
598227
2455
它是人类知识的使者。
10:12
It's the connector of all.
221
600682
1704
它是一切的连接器。
10:14
And it's viewed in those sort of idealistic terms.
222
602386
3385
从那些有点理想主义的角度来看。
10:17
And from that lens,
223
605771
1573
从那个角度看来，
10:19
what the NSA has done is equivalent to
224
607344
2597
美国国家安全局做的事相当于
10:21
the authorities back in Germany
225
609941
2160
德国当局
10:24
inserting some device into every printing press
226
612101
2869
在每个印刷机里装上设备
10:26
that would reveal which books people bought
227
614970
3541
了解人们买了哪些书
10:30
and what they read.
228
618511
2020
和他们所阅读的内容。
10:32
Can you understand that from that viewpoint,
229
620531
2231
从这样的观点看来，
10:34
it feels outrageous?
230
622762
4205
国安局的行为有些粗暴？
10:38
RL: I do understand that, and I actually share
the view of the utility of the Internet,
the view of the utility of the Internet,
231
626967
3302
理查德‧莱杰特：
我明白并且同意互联网的功能，
我明白并且同意互联网的功能，
10:42
and I would argue it's bigger than the Internet.
232
630269
1702
我想说它比互联网更大。
10:43
It is a global telecommunications system.
233
631971
2411
它是一个全球电信系统。
10:46
The Internet is a big chunk of
that, but there is a lot more.
that, but there is a lot more.
234
634382
2451
互联网是其中的一个大块，
但还有更多。
但还有更多。
10:48
And I think that people have legitimate concerns
235
636833
3343
我认为人们有正当理由关注
10:52
about the balance between
transparency and secrecy.
transparency and secrecy.
236
640176
6306
透明度和秘密的平衡。
10:58
That's sort of been couched as a balance
237
646482
1940
这种表达也指
11:00
between privacy and national security.
238
648422
3636
隐私和国家安全间的平衡。
11:04
I don't think that's the right framing.
239
652058
1420
这不认为这是正确的框架。
11:05
I think it really is transparency and secrecy.
240
653478
2365
我认为它真的是透明且保密的。
11:07
And so that's the national and international conversation that we're having,
241
655843
3559
我们正在讨论的
有关国家和国际的对话，
有关国家和国际的对话，
11:11
and we want to participate in that, and want
242
659402
1399
和我们想要参加其中，
11:12
people to participate in it in an informed way.
243
660801
2440
希望人们了解。
11:15
So there are things,
244
663241
1911
所以有些事情，
11:17
let me talk there a little bit more,
245
665152
1450
让我扩展一下，
11:18
there are things that we need
to be transparent about:
to be transparent about:
246
666602
3769
有件事情是需要保持透明的：
11:22
our authorities, our processes,
247
670371
2027
我们的当局，我们的流程，
11:24
our oversight, who we are.
248
672398
2054
我们的监督，我们是谁。
11:26
We, NSA, have not done a good job of that,
249
674452
1766
我们，美国国家安全局，
在这方面做得不够好，
在这方面做得不够好，
11:28
and I think that's part of the reason
250
676218
1388
我认为其中的原因
11:29
that this has been so revelational
251
677606
2729
已经被媒体揭示
11:32
and so sensational in the media.
252
680335
2196
并引起轰动。
11:34
Nobody knew who we were. We were the No Such Agency, the Never Say Anything.
253
682531
4126
没人知道我们是谁。
我们是“没听过的机构”，“沉默的机构”。
我们是“没听过的机构”，“沉默的机构”。
11:38
There's takeoffs of our logo
254
686657
2649
我们标志里的老鹰起飞了
11:41
of an eagle with headphones on around it.
255
689306
3019
这只鹰还带着耳机。
11:44
And so that's the public characterization.
256
692325
3623
这就是公共属性。
11:47
And so we need to be more
transparent about those things.
transparent about those things.
257
695948
4336
因此我们需要将这些事情透明化。
11:52
What we don't need to be transparent about,
258
700284
1418
我们不需要保持透明的是
11:53
because it's bad for the U.S.,
259
701702
2338
那些对美国来说不利的事情，
11:56
it's bad for all those other
countries that we work with
countries that we work with
260
704040
2583
那些对与我们有合作的
11:58
and that we help provide information
261
706623
2093
接受我们信息的国家不利
12:00
that helps them secure themselves
262
708716
1722
这会帮助他们保护自己
12:02
and their people,
263
710438
1509
以及人民的安全，
12:03
it's bad to expose operations and capabilities
264
711947
3890
公开运作和能力是不利的行为
12:07
in a way that allows the people
that we're all working against,
that we're all working against,
265
715837
5292
如果这样做将会使得那些
我们反对的人，
我们反对的人，
12:13
the generally recognized bad guys,
266
721129
4963
一般公认的坏人们，
12:18
to counter those.
267
726092
2300
能够有办法对付我们。
12:20
CA: But isn't it also bad to deal
268
728392
3025
克里斯▪安德森: 但是，
是不是也不好应对
是不是也不好应对
12:23
a kind of body blow to the American companies
269
731417
3404
惨败的美国公司
12:26
that have essentially given the world
270
734821
1896
这些公司提供了世界上
12:28
most of the Internet services that matter?
271
736717
5180
大部分的互联网服务？
12:33
RL: It is. It's really the companies are
272
741897
3392
理查德▪莱杰特：是的。
确实这些公司都处于
确实这些公司都处于
12:37
in a tough position, as are we,
273
745289
3388
一个艰难的位置，如同我们，
12:40
because the companies,
274
748677
1941
因为是我们
12:42
we compel them to provide information,
275
750618
2332
强迫这些公司提供信息，
12:44
just like every other nation in the world does.
276
752950
1983
就像在世界的每个其他国家一样。
12:46
Every industrialized nation in the world
277
754933
3274
世界上的每个工业化国家
12:50
has a lawful intercept program
278
758207
2100
都有一套合法截取信息的程序
12:52
where they are requiring companies
279
760307
2498
他们要求公司
12:54
to provide them with information
280
762805
1411
为他们提供用以保障安全
12:56
that they need for their security,
281
764216
1655
的信息，
12:57
and the companies that are involved
282
765871
2227
这次事件所涉及的公司
13:00
have complied with those programs
283
768098
1428
都遵从这些程序
13:01
in the same way that they have to do
284
769526
1618
他们也要从事同样的活动
13:03
when they're operating in Russia or the U.K.
285
771144
3450
当营运在俄罗斯或英国
13:06
or China or India or France,
286
774594
4286
或中国或印度或法国，
13:10
any country that you choose to name.
287
778880
2018
你能说出的任何国家。
13:12
And so the fact that these revelations
288
780898
4909
这些揭示
13:17
have been broadly characterized as
289
785807
2294
被广泛地描绘成
13:20
"you can't trust company A because
290
788101
1890
"你不能信任A公司，因为
13:21
your privacy is suspect with them"
291
789991
3515
您的隐私是不受他们保护的"
13:25
is actually only accurate in the sense that
292
793506
4041
在某种意义上这是准确的
13:29
it's accurate with every other company in the world
293
797547
2736
世界上的任何其他公司
13:32
that deals with any of those countries in the world.
294
800283
2159
在处理与任何国家间关系的时候。
13:34
And so it's being picked up by people
295
802442
2128
这被人们用来
13:36
as a marketing advantage,
296
804570
1594
作为一个市场营销策略，
13:38
and it's being marketed that
way by several countries,
way by several countries,
297
806164
1773
几个国家都在推销着
13:39
including some of our allied countries,
298
807937
1511
包括一些与我们联盟的国家，
13:41
where they are saying,
299
809448
1502
他们说，
13:42
"Hey, you can't trust the U.S.,
300
810950
1529
“嘿，你不能信任美国，
13:44
but you can trust our telecom company,
301
812479
2586
但你可以信赖我们的通信公司，
13:47
because we're safe."
302
815065
1354
因为我们保障用户的安全。”
13:48
And they're actually using that to counter
303
816419
1659
实际上他们在用这个营销策略
13:50
the very large technological edge
304
818078
2318
来与美国的公司竞争
13:52
that U.S. companies have
305
820396
1809
美国公司在云技术和
13:54
in areas like the cloud and
Internet-based technologies.
Internet-based technologies.
306
822205
3906
基于互联网的技术领域
有很大的技术优势。
有很大的技术优势。
13:58
CA: You're sitting there with the American flag,
307
826111
3007
克里斯▪安德森：
你身后有美国国旗，
你身后有美国国旗，
14:01
and the American Constitution guarantees
308
829118
3570
美国宪法保障了公民的
14:04
freedom from unreasonable search and seizure.
309
832688
2847
不遭受不合理的搜查和扣押的自由。
14:07
How do you characterize
310
835535
1961
你是如何描述
14:09
the American citizen's right to privacy?
311
837496
4480
美国公民隐私权的？
14:13
Is there such a right?
312
841976
2281
有这样的一种权利吗？
14:16
RL: Yeah, of course there is.
313
844257
2736
理查德▪莱杰特： 是的，当然有。
14:18
And we devote an inordinate
amount of time and pressure,
amount of time and pressure,
314
846993
3043
我们投入大量的时间和精力，
14:22
inordinate and appropriate, actually I should say,
315
850036
2284
我是指，过度却又适当的，
14:24
amount of time and effort in order to ensure
316
852320
2208
时间和努力，以确保
14:26
that we protect that privacy.
317
854528
2332
我们保护公民隐私。
14:28
and beyond that, the privacy of citizens
318
856860
3057
我们也保护，
14:31
around the world, it's not just Americans.
319
859917
3649
不只是美国人，而是
世界各地公民的隐私权。
世界各地公民的隐私权。
14:35
Several things come into play here.
320
863566
1900
可以用几件事情来论述这点。
14:37
First, we're all in the same network.
321
865466
1748
第一，我们都使用同一个网络。
14:39
My communications,
322
867214
1574
我的通讯，
14:40
I'm a user of a particular Internet email service
323
868788
4147
我是某个电子邮件公司的用户
14:44
that is the number one email service of choice
324
872935
3971
这个是全球恐怖分子
14:48
by terrorists around the world, number one.
325
876906
1593
首选的公司。
14:50
So I'm there right beside them in email space
326
878499
2725
在互联网中，我的邮件账户就在
14:53
in the Internet.
327
881224
1889
他们的电子邮件账户隔壁。
14:55
And so we need to be able to pick that apart
328
883113
3592
因此我们需要把这些信息拆分，
14:58
and find the information that's relevant.
329
886705
3855
找出相关的信息。
15:05
In doing so, we're going to necessarily encounter
330
893131
3362
要这样做，一定会遇到
15:08
Americans and innocent foreign citizens
331
896493
2068
美国人和无辜的外国公民
15:10
who are just going about their business,
332
898561
1546
那些只是在忙各自事物的人。
15:12
and so we have procedures in
place that shreds that out,
place that shreds that out,
333
900107
2698
因此，我们有操作程序
将那些事情分别出来，
将那些事情分别出来，
15:14
that says, when you find that,
334
902805
2215
也就是说，当你发现它，
15:17
not if you find it, when you find it,
because you're certain to find it,
because you're certain to find it,
335
905020
2267
不是如果你发现它，而是当你找到它，
因为你无法避免会发现它
因为你无法避免会发现它
15:19
here's how you protect that.
336
907287
1783
这是你如何保护它的程序。
15:21
These are called minimization procedures.
337
909070
2105
这些被称为，最小化程序。
15:23
They're approved by the attorney general
338
911175
2028
他们是由联邦司法部批准
15:25
and constitutionally based.
339
913203
1600
并且是基于宪法规定的。
15:26
And so we protect those.
340
914803
2480
于是，我们保护这样的信息。
15:29
And then, for people, citizens of the world
341
917283
4471
对人们来说，世界上的公民
15:33
who are going about their lawful business
342
921754
1879
那些在处理其合法的业务
15:35
on a day-to-day basis,
343
923633
1707
日常工作的，
15:37
the president on his January 17 speech,
344
925340
2296
总统在他1月17日的演讲中提到，
15:39
laid out some additional protections
345
927636
1493
会有额外的保护措施
15:41
that we are providing to them.
346
929129
2059
能提供给他们。
15:43
So I think absolutely,
347
931188
1872
所以我绝对认为，
15:45
folks do have a right to privacy,
348
933060
1535
人们是有隐私权的，
15:46
and that we work very hard to make sure
349
934595
2619
我们非常努力工作以确保
15:49
that that right to privacy is protected.
350
937214
2806
这样的隐私权受到保护。
15:52
CA: What about foreigners using
351
940020
1736
克里斯‧安德森：那么当外国人使用
15:53
American companies' Internet services?
352
941756
2150
美国公司的互联网服务
15:55
Do they have any privacy rights?
353
943906
3845
他们有任何隐私权吗？
15:59
RL: They do. They do, in the sense of,
354
947751
2673
理查德‧莱杰特： 他们有。
他们有，从某种意义上说，
他们有，从某种意义上说，
16:02
the only way that we are able to compel
355
950424
5740
只有这样，我们才能够强迫
16:08
one of those companies to provide us information
356
956164
2326
某一家公司为我们提供信息
16:10
is when it falls into one of three categories:
357
958490
3462
是当他属于下列
三个类别之一的情况下：
三个类别之一的情况下：
16:13
We can identify that this particular person,
358
961952
3552
我们可以确定，这个特定的人，
16:17
identified by a selector of some kind,
359
965504
2390
被挑选出来认为
16:19
is associated with counterterrorist
360
967894
3356
与反恐怖主义或者
16:23
or proliferation or other foreign intelligence target.
361
971250
5249
核扩散或其他境外情报目标。
16:28
CA: Much has been made of the fact that
362
976499
1782
克里斯‧安德森： 事实上，
16:30
a lot of the information that you've obtained
363
978281
2466
你们已经通过这些计划
16:32
through these programs is essentially metadata.
364
980747
2276
获得了很多信息，
本质上是元数据。
本质上是元数据。
16:35
It's not necessarily the actual words
365
983023
2295
它不一定是实际的语词，
16:37
that someone has written in an email
366
985318
1653
像是某人电子邮件中写的内容
16:38
or given on a phone call.
367
986971
1349
或是一通电话里说的话。
16:40
It's who they wrote to and when, and so forth.
368
988320
4049
而是收件方是谁，什么时候写的，等等。
16:44
But it's been argued,
369
992369
1536
但有人一直认为，
16:45
and someone here in the audience has talked
370
993905
2111
这座观众中有人与
16:48
to a former NSA analyst who said
371
996016
2467
前美国国家安全局分析师交谈过
那位分析师说
那位分析师说
16:50
metadata is actually much more invasive
372
998483
2387
元数据实际上
16:52
than the core data,
373
1000870
1403
比核心数据更具有攻击性，
16:54
because in the core data
374
1002273
1133
因为在核心数据
16:55
you present yourself as you want to be presented.
375
1003406
3227
你表现出的是你希望展现的样子。
16:58
With metadata, who knows what the conclusions are
376
1006633
2706
而元数据，谁知道会被得出
17:01
that are drawn?
377
1009339
1416
怎样的结论？
17:02
Is there anything to that?
378
1010755
2006
是这样吗？
17:04
RL: I don't really understand that argument.
379
1012761
1789
理查德‧莱杰特： 我不是很明白这一论点。
17:06
I think that metadata's important
for a couple of reasons.
for a couple of reasons.
380
1014550
2900
我认为元数据的重要性
有下列几个原因。
有下列几个原因。
17:09
Metadata is the information that lets you
381
1017450
4478
元数据可以让你找到
17:13
find connections that people are trying to hide.
382
1021928
3391
人们试图隐藏的关系。
17:17
So when a terrorist is corresponding
383
1025319
2011
因此当一名恐怖分子在回应
17:19
with somebody else who's not known to us
384
1027330
1845
某个我们不知道的人，
17:21
but is engaged in doing or
supporting terrorist activity,
supporting terrorist activity,
385
1029175
2608
而这人从事或支持恐怖活动，
17:23
or someone who's violating international sanctions
386
1031783
2426
这人或许违反了国际制裁
17:26
by providing nuclear weapons-related material
387
1034209
3077
提供与核武器相关的材料
17:29
to a country like Iran or North Korea,
388
1037286
2326
给伊朗或朝鲜这样的国家，
17:31
is trying to hide that activity
because it's illicit activity.
because it's illicit activity.
389
1039612
3577
正试图隐藏这种活动，
因为它是非法的。
因为它是非法的。
17:35
What metadata lets you do is connect that.
390
1043189
2810
元数据在这种时候就能帮你
连接这些资讯。
连接这些资讯。
17:37
The alternative to that
391
1045999
1532
供替代的做法
17:39
is one that's much less efficient
392
1047531
1619
是一种效率较低的
17:41
and much more invasive of privacy,
393
1049150
1381
并且更加侵犯隐私权的方式，
17:42
which is gigantic amounts of content collection.
394
1050531
3836
那将是数量庞大的内容集合。
17:46
So metadata, in that sense,
395
1054367
1393
因此元数据，在这个意义上，
17:47
actually is privacy-enhancing.
396
1055760
2396
其实是加强隐私的。
17:50
And we don't, contrary to some of the stuff
397
1058156
2105
我们不像报道中
17:52
that's been printed,
398
1060261
1715
所说的那样，
17:53
we don't sit there and grind out
399
1061976
2769
我们不会坐在那里
17:56
metadata profiles of average people.
400
1064745
2837
查看普罗大众的元数据文件。
17:59
If you're not connected
401
1067582
1956
如果你没有与那些
18:01
to one of those valid intelligence targets,
402
1069538
3052
有根据的情报目标有联系，
18:04
you are not of interest to us.
403
1072590
3413
我们对你并不感兴趣。
18:08
CA: So in terms of the threats
404
1076003
3172
克里斯‧安德森：总地来说
18:11
that face America overall,
405
1079175
2312
以美国所面临的威胁，
18:13
where would you place terrorism?
406
1081487
3212
你认为恐怖主义的重要性在哪个位置?
18:16
RL: I think terrorism is still number one.
407
1084699
3098
理查德‧莱杰特： 我认为
恐怖主义仍是第一位的。
恐怖主义仍是第一位的。
18:19
I think that we have never been in a time
408
1087797
3904
我们从来没有过在一段时间内
18:23
where there are more places
409
1091701
1991
有越来越多的地方
18:25
where things are going badly
410
1093692
2853
事情变得越来越糟糕，
18:28
and forming the petri dish in which terrorists
411
1096545
3901
恐怖分子利用政府的治理漏洞
18:32
take advantage of the lack of governance.
412
1100446
5310
来制造恐怖活动培养皿。
18:37
An old boss of mine, Tom Fargo, Admiral Fargo,
413
1105756
3637
我的老领导，汤姆·法戈，法戈上将，
18:41
used to describe it as arcs of instability.
414
1109393
2213
用不稳定的弧线描述它。
18:43
And so you have a lot of those arcs of instability
415
1111606
2368
当今世界上，有很多
18:45
in the world right now,
416
1113974
1693
这样不稳定的因素，
18:47
in places like Syria, where there's a civil war
417
1115667
1837
在叙利亚，正在进行一次内战
18:49
going on and you have massive numbers,
418
1117504
2710
你会得到大量的数字，
18:52
thousands and thousands of foreign fighters
419
1120214
1735
成千上万的外国武装分子
18:53
who are coming into Syria
420
1121949
1733
正在前往叙利亚
18:55
to learn how to be terrorists
421
1123682
1503
去了解如何成为恐怖分子
18:57
and practice that activity,
422
1125185
2101
实践恐怖活动，
18:59
and lots of those people are Westerners
423
1127286
2699
那些人中的很多是西方人
19:01
who hold passports to European countries
424
1129985
3729
持有欧洲国家的护照
19:05
or in some cases the United States,
425
1133714
1752
或在某些情况下，美国护照，
19:07
and so they are basically learning how
426
1135466
2401
他们去学习如何参与圣战，
19:09
to do jihad and have expressed intent
427
1137867
3480
表达了走出去
19:13
to go out and do that later on
428
1141347
2413
以后在自己的国家实践
19:15
in their home countries.
429
1143760
1667
这样的意图。
19:17
You've got places like Iraq,
430
1145427
1321
像伊拉克这样的地方
19:18
which is suffering from a high
level of sectarian violence,
level of sectarian violence,
431
1146748
2782
遭受着更高水平的宗派暴力事件，
19:21
again a breeding ground for terrorism.
432
1149530
2651
于是再一次成为
恐怖主义的滋生地。
恐怖主义的滋生地。
19:24
And you have the activity in the Horn of Africa
433
1152181
2506
一些活动发生在非洲之角
19:26
and the Sahel area of Africa.
434
1154687
3047
和非洲的萨赫勒地区。
19:29
Again, lots of weak governance
435
1157734
2528
再次，许多政府治理的薄弱性
19:32
which forms a breeding ground for terrorist activity.
436
1160262
3891
造就了恐怖活动的温床。
19:36
So I think it's very serious. I think it's number one.
437
1164153
1994
因此我认为这是非常严重的。
我认为它是我国面临的首要威胁。
我认为它是我国面临的首要威胁。
19:38
I think number two is cyber threat.
438
1166147
2254
第二个是网络安全威胁。
19:40
I think cyber is a threat in three ways:
439
1168401
5764
我认为网络是安全威胁
表现在三个方面：
表现在三个方面：
19:46
One way, and probably the most common way
440
1174165
3754
方式一，也是人们听说过
19:49
that people have heard about it,
441
1177919
2192
最常见的方式，
19:52
is due to the theft of intellectual property,
442
1180111
2000
是盗窃知识产权，
19:54
so basically, foreign countries going in,
443
1182111
4304
基本上，外国进入网络，
19:58
stealing companies' secrets,
444
1186415
1877
窃取公司机密，
20:00
and then providing that information
445
1188292
1998
然后将该信息
20:02
to state-owned enterprises
446
1190290
1737
提供给国有企业
20:04
or companies connected to the government
447
1192027
2949
或是与政府有关系的公司
20:06
to help them leapfrog technology
448
1194976
2503
以帮助他们跨越技术的鸿沟
20:09
or to gain business intelligence
449
1197479
2075
或者是获得商业情报
20:11
that's then used to win contracts overseas.
450
1199554
2668
用于赢得境外合同。
20:14
That is a hugely costly set of
activities that's going on right now.
activities that's going on right now.
451
1202222
3739
这是一套非常昂贵的活动。
20:17
Several nation-states are doing it.
452
1205961
1467
几个民族国家正在进行这样的活动。
20:19
Second is the denial-of-service attacks.
453
1207428
3225
第二是阻绝服务攻击。
20:22
You're probably aware that there have been
454
1210653
1379
你可能注意到自2012年起
20:24
a spate of those directed against
455
1212032
1971
已经出现一连串针对
20:26
the U.S. financial sector since 2012.
456
1214003
3588
美国金融业的攻击。
20:29
Again, that's a nation-state who
is executing those attacks,
is executing those attacks,
457
1217591
2617
再次，执行这些攻击的，是某一个国家，
20:32
and they're doing that
458
1220208
1073
他们一直在这样做，
20:33
as a semi-anonymous way of reprisal.
459
1221281
4753
作为一种半匿名式的报复。
20:38
And the last one is destructive attacks,
460
1226034
1390
最后一个是破坏性的攻击，
20:39
and those are the ones that concern me the most.
461
1227424
1526
这是我最担心的。
20:40
Those are on the rise.
462
1228950
1400
这些行动有上升的趋势。
20:42
You have the attack against Saudi Aramco in 2012,
463
1230350
3630
在2012年有针对
沙特阿美石油公司的攻击，
沙特阿美石油公司的攻击，
20:45
August of 2012.
464
1233980
1690
那是在2012年的8月。
20:47
It took down about 35,000 of their computers
465
1235670
2285
大约35,000台电脑遭到
20:49
with a Wiper-style virus.
466
1237955
1792
雨刷风格的病毒攻击。
20:51
You had a follow-on a week later
467
1239747
1913
一周后延续到
20:53
to a Qatari company.
468
1241660
1534
一家卡塔尔公司。
20:55
You had March of 2013,
469
1243194
2141
在2013年3月，
20:57
you had a South Korean attack
470
1245335
2671
一场针对韩国的攻击，
21:00
that was attributed in the press to North Korea
471
1248006
2433
新闻界将其归功于朝鲜，
21:02
that took out thousands of computers.
472
1250439
2055
当时数千台计算机遭到攻击。
21:04
Those are on the rise,
473
1252494
1445
这些行动出现的频率正在上升，
21:05
and we see people expressing interest
474
1253939
2734
我们感到人们正在
21:08
in those capabilities
475
1256673
1176
对这样的行为表示兴趣
21:09
and a desire to employ them.
476
1257849
2017
并且有实施这一行为的愿望。
21:11
CA: Okay, so a couple of things here,
477
1259866
1566
克里斯‧安德森：一些事情，
21:13
because this is really the core of this, almost.
478
1261432
1942
因为这几乎是真正的核心部分。
21:15
I mean, first of all,
479
1263374
1264
我的意思是，首先，
21:16
a lot of people who look at risk
480
1264638
1558
很多人看到风险
21:18
and look at the numbers
481
1266196
1217
再看到数字
21:19
don't understand this belief that terrorism
482
1267413
2260
不明白仍将恐怖主义
21:21
is still the number one threat.
483
1269673
1884
视为头号威胁的原因。
21:23
Apart from September 11,
484
1271557
1628
除了911事件之外，
21:25
I think the numbers are that
in the last 30 or 40 years
in the last 30 or 40 years
485
1273185
2355
数据表明在过去的
30年或40年间
30年或40年间
21:27
about 500 Americans have died from terrorism,
486
1275540
3101
美国约有500人死于恐怖主义，
21:30
mostly from homegrown terrorists.
487
1278641
3983
绝大多数死于本土恐怖分子手中。
21:34
The chance in the last few years
488
1282624
1587
在过去的几年中
21:36
of being killed by terrorism
489
1284211
1723
死于恐怖主义的几率
21:37
is far less than the chance
of being killed by lightning.
of being killed by lightning.
490
1285934
3984
是远小于被雷电击中的几率的。
21:41
I guess you would say that a single nuclear incident
491
1289918
3406
我猜你会解释说某一起核事故
21:45
or bioterrorism act or something like that
492
1293324
3326
或生化恐怖主义行为或类似的事情
21:48
would change those numbers.
493
1296650
1901
就能改变这些数字。
21:50
Would that be the point of view?
494
1298551
2162
是这样吗？
21:52
RL: Well, I'd say two things.
495
1300713
1176
理查德‧莱杰特： 好吧，
我主要说两件事。
我主要说两件事。
21:53
One is, the reason that there hasn't been
496
1301889
1926
其中一个就是，
21:55
a major attack in the United States since 9/11,
497
1303815
1810
美国自9/11以来
并未遭受重大的恐怖袭击
并未遭受重大的恐怖袭击
21:57
that is not an accident.
498
1305625
1556
不是偶然的。
21:59
That's a lot of hard work that we have done,
499
1307181
2186
因为我们很努力地工作，
22:01
that other folks
500
1309367
1381
那些在情报系统
22:02
in the intelligence community have done,
501
1310748
1383
任职的工作人员的工作成果，
22:04
that the military has done,
502
1312131
1181
那些军队的工作成果，
22:05
and that our allies around the globe have done.
503
1313312
2048
和我们全球各地的盟友的工作成果。
22:07
You've heard the numbers about
504
1315360
2451
那些数字
22:09
the tip of the iceberg in terms
505
1317811
2532
只是冰山一角，
22:12
of numbers of terrorist attacks that NSA programs
506
1320343
2570
美国国家安全局项目
22:14
contributed to stopping was 54,
507
1322913
2759
成功阻止了54场恐怖袭击，
22:17
25 of those in Europe,
508
1325672
1822
25起在欧洲，
22:19
and of those 25,
509
1327494
2130
那25起中的，
22:21
18 of them occurred in three countries,
510
1329624
2605
18起出现在三个国家，
22:24
some of which are our allies,
511
1332229
1863
其中包括我们的盟友，
22:26
and some of which are beating the heck out of us
512
1334092
2199
顺便说一下，其中有些打败了
22:28
over the NSA programs, by the way.
513
1336291
4477
美国国家安全局的程序。
22:32
So that's not an accident that those things happen.
514
1340768
2692
因此，那些事情发生不是偶然的。
22:35
That's hard work. That's us finding intelligence
515
1343460
2325
是辛苦工作的成果。
我们寻找
我们寻找
22:37
on terrorist activities
516
1345785
1830
关于恐怖活动的情报
22:39
and interdicting them through one way or another,
517
1347615
1574
通过这样那样的方式封锁他们，
22:41
through law enforcement,
518
1349189
1331
通过诉诸法律，
22:42
through cooperative activities with other countries
519
1350520
2830
通过与其他国家通力合作
22:45
and sometimes through military action.
520
1353350
3116
有时候会采取军事行动。
22:48
The other thing I would say is that
521
1356466
2893
我想说的另一件事是
22:51
your idea of nuclear or chem-bio-threat
522
1359359
5266
有关核武器或生化武器的想法
22:56
is not at all far-fetched
523
1364625
1516
绝不牵强，
22:58
and in fact there are a number of groups
524
1366141
1738
确实有一些团体
22:59
who have for several years expressed interest
525
1367879
1887
常年保有希望获得
23:01
and desire in obtaining those capabilities
526
1369766
2540
这样能力的兴趣，
23:04
and work towards that.
527
1372306
1760
并且已经在付诸行动。
23:06
CA: It's also been said that,
528
1374066
1576
克里斯‧安德森：也有人说，
23:07
of those 54 alleged incidents,
529
1375642
2700
那54起的指控，
23:10
that as few as zero of them
530
1378342
1848
和斯诺登先生透露的
23:12
were actually anything to do
531
1380190
1062
饱受争议的项目
23:13
with these controversial programs
532
1381252
1847
之间的联系
23:15
that Mr. Snowden revealed,
533
1383099
3732
趋拘于零，
23:18
that it was basically through
other forms of intelligence,
other forms of intelligence,
534
1386831
3917
那是通过其他形式的情报工作，
23:22
that you're looking for a needle in a haystack,
535
1390748
2890
如同你在干草堆中寻找一根针，
23:25
and the effects of these programs,
536
1393638
1562
这些项目的影响
23:27
these controversial programs,
537
1395200
1031
这些有争议的项目，
23:28
is just to add hay to the stack,
538
1396231
2072
只是往干草堆中添加干草，
23:30
not to really find the needle.
539
1398303
1580
而非找到那根针。
23:31
The needle was found by other methods.
540
1399883
2082
针是通过其他方式发现的。
23:33
Isn't there something to that?
541
1401965
4124
请问你要如何回应？
23:38
RL: No, there's actually two programs
542
1406089
2408
理查德‧莱杰特：不，实际上两个程序
23:40
that are typically implicated in that discussion.
543
1408497
2417
涉及到这方面的讨论。
23:42
One is the section 215 program,
544
1410914
2478
一是章节215项目，
23:45
the U.S. telephony metadata program,
545
1413392
2978
美国电话系统元数据的程序，
23:48
and the other one is
546
1416370
2040
另一个是
23:50
popularly called the PRISM program,
547
1418410
1594
俗称的棱镜门程序，
23:52
and it's actually section 702
of the FISA Amendment Act.
of the FISA Amendment Act.
548
1420004
3248
它是外国情报监听法
修正案第702条。
修正案第702条。
23:55
But the 215 program
549
1423252
4190
但是215程序
23:59
is only relevant to threats
550
1427442
1727
只与直接针对美国的
24:01
that are directed against the United States,
551
1429169
2259
行动有关，
24:03
and there have been a dozen threats
552
1431428
2900
受此牵连的
24:06
where that was implicated.
553
1434328
1315
有十几个威胁。
24:07
Now what you'll see people say publicly
554
1435643
3189
现在你会看到人们公开说
24:10
is there is no "but for" case,
555
1438832
2036
是有没有"，但却"的情况下，
24:12
and so there is no case where, but for that,
556
1440868
3813
所以有没有什么地方，但为此，
24:16
the threat would have happened.
557
1444681
1701
威胁将会发生。
24:18
But that actually indicates a lack of understanding
558
1446382
4207
但是，实际上表明了一种无知，
24:22
of how terrorist investigations actually work.
559
1450589
5117
人们不了解调查恐怖分子
的工作是如何完成的。
的工作是如何完成的。
24:27
You think about on television,
560
1455706
1478
你想到在电视上，
24:29
you watch a murder mystery.
561
1457184
1332
看到一个神秘的谋杀。
24:30
What do you start with? You start with a body,
562
1458516
1530
你是如何开始？开始于一个人，
24:32
and then they work their way
from there to solve the crime.
from there to solve the crime.
563
1460046
2236
他们解决犯罪。
24:34
We're actually starting well before that,
564
1462282
1531
实际上我们在那之前就开始工作了，
24:35
hopefully before there are any bodies,
565
1463813
1501
希望在任何机构前工作,
24:37
and we're trying to build the case for
566
1465314
2433
我们试图建立档案
24:39
who the people are, what they're trying to do,
567
1467747
2430
这些人是谁，他们想做些什么，
24:42
and that involves massive amounts of information.
568
1470177
2850
这就涉及到大量的信息。
24:45
Think of it is as mosaic,
569
1473027
1481
把它想作是马赛克，
24:46
and it's hard to say that any one piece of a mosaic
570
1474508
2162
很难说，马赛克中任何一片
24:48
was necessary to building the mosaic,
571
1476670
2632
对建筑马赛克至关重要，
24:51
but to build the complete picture,
572
1479302
1729
但是为了建立完整的图片，
24:53
you need to have all the pieces of information.
573
1481031
1965
你需要有所有的信息片段。
24:54
On the other, the non-U.S.-related
threats out of those 54,
threats out of those 54,
574
1482996
3105
另一方面，那54起
并非与美国相关的威胁
并非与美国相关的威胁
24:58
the other 42 of them,
575
1486101
3189
其中的42件，
25:01
the PRISM program was hugely relevant to that,
576
1489290
4630
棱镜项目与其非常相关，
25:05
and in fact was material in contributing
577
1493920
2986
事实上是在提供材料
25:08
to stopping those attacks.
578
1496906
1882
以阻止这些攻击。
25:10
CA: Snowden said two days ago
579
1498788
1337
克里斯‧安德森：斯诺登两天前说
25:12
that terrorism has always been
580
1500125
3370
恐怖主义一直
25:15
what is called in the intelligence world
581
1503495
2128
在情报系统称之为
25:17
"a cover for action,"
582
1505623
1546
"行动的幌子"，
25:19
that it's something that,
583
1507169
1937
这是重要的，
25:21
because it invokes such a powerful
584
1509106
1716
因为它会调动人们
25:22
emotional response in people,
585
1510822
1839
强大的情绪反应，
25:24
it allows the initiation of these programs
586
1512661
2634
它允许这些程序启动，
25:27
to achieve powers that an organization like yours
587
1515295
3561
让像你们这样的机构本拥有
25:30
couldn't otherwise have.
588
1518856
1567
本不该有的权利。
25:32
Is there any internal debate about that?
589
1520423
3452
关于这个话题你们有内部辩论吗？
25:35
RL: Yeah.
590
1523875
1412
理查德‧莱杰特：是的。
25:37
I mean, we debate these things all the time,
591
1525287
2000
我的意思是，我们时常
在辩论这些问题，
在辩论这些问题，
25:39
and there is discussion that goes on
592
1527287
2759
在行政部门还有
25:42
in the executive branch
593
1530046
1921
持续不断的讨论
25:43
and within NSA itself
594
1531967
2063
在美国国家安全局内部
25:46
and the intelligence community about
595
1534030
1655
和情报系统
25:47
what's right, what's proportionate,
596
1535685
1360
关于什么是正确的，什么是相称的，
25:49
what's the correct thing to do.
597
1537045
1261
什么是正确的事情。
25:50
And it's important to note that the programs
598
1538306
1578
重点提一下这些
25:51
that we're talking about
599
1539884
1347
我们正在谈论的项目
25:53
were all authorized by two different presidents,
600
1541231
3402
是被两个不同的总统授权的，
25:56
two different political parties,
601
1544633
1745
两个不同的政党，
25:58
by Congress twice,
602
1546378
2135
两次经手国会，
26:00
and by federal judges 16 different times,
603
1548513
3836
由联邦法官16次不同时间，
26:04
and so this is not NSA running off
604
1552349
4712
所以这不是美国国家安全局
26:09
and doing its own thing.
605
1557061
1463
自编自导自演的。
26:10
This is a legitimate activity
606
1558524
2448
这是一项合法的活动，
26:12
of the United States foreign government
607
1560972
2518
让美国国外政府，
26:15
that was agreed to by all the branches
608
1563490
2175
美国政府的
26:17
of the United States government,
609
1565665
1984
所有分支，
26:19
and President Madison would have been proud.
610
1567649
3049
和麦迪逊总统感到自豪。
26:22
CA: And yet, when congressmen discovered
611
1570698
4089
克里斯‧安德森：然而，
当国会议员们发现
当国会议员们发现
26:26
what was actually being done
with that authorization,
with that authorization,
612
1574787
2230
在授权情况下实际上的行为，
26:29
many of them were completely shocked.
613
1577017
2869
他们中的很多都完全惊呆了。
26:31
Or do you think that is not a legitimate reaction,
614
1579886
3346
或者，你认为那不是一个合理的反应，
26:35
that it's only because it's now come out publicly,
615
1583232
2105
它是因为公开在民众眼前，
26:37
that they really knew exactly what you were doing
616
1585337
3102
他们才真的知道你们在做什么
26:40
with the powers they had granted you?
617
1588439
2336
在他们授予的权力之下？
26:42
RL: Congress is a big body.
618
1590775
1674
理查德‧莱杰特：国会是一个巨大的组织，
26:44
There's 535 of them,
619
1592449
1977
国会议员有535名，
26:46
and they change out frequently,
620
1594426
2141
人员经常变动，
26:48
in the case of the House, every two years,
621
1596567
1858
众议院每隔两年变动，
26:50
and I think that the NSA provided
622
1598425
3776
我认为美国国家安全局提供了
26:54
all the relevant information
to our oversight committees,
to our oversight committees,
623
1602201
3137
监督委员会所需的所有相关信息，
26:57
and then the dissemination of that information
624
1605338
2278
然后这些信息的传播
26:59
by the oversight committees throughout Congress
625
1607616
1899
通过整个国会监督委员会
27:01
is something that they manage.
626
1609515
2634
是他们管理的东西。
27:04
I think I would say that Congress members
627
1612149
4856
我会说，国会议员
27:09
had the opportunity to make themselves aware,
628
1617005
3831
有机会让自己意识到这些，
27:12
and in fact a significant number of them,
629
1620836
1869
事实上他们中的大多数，
27:14
the ones who are assigned oversight responsibility,
630
1622705
3458
那些被分配有监督责任的人
27:18
did have the ability to do that.
631
1626163
1174
没有能力做到这一点。
27:19
And you've actually had the chairs of
those committees say that in public.
those committees say that in public.
632
1627337
3938
委员会主席在公共场合说过多次。
27:23
CA: Now, you mentioned the
threat of cyberattacks,
threat of cyberattacks,
633
1631275
1557
克里斯‧安德森：你所提到
网络攻击的威胁
网络攻击的威胁
27:24
and I don't think anyone in this room would disagree
634
1632832
2167
我认为在场所有人都同意
27:26
that that is a huge concern,
635
1634999
1890
这是一个巨大的关注点，
27:28
but do you accept that there's a tradeoff
636
1636889
1834
但你是否认为有个权衡点
27:30
between offensive and defensive strategies,
637
1638723
2411
在进攻性和防御性战略之间，
27:33
and that it's possible that the very measures taken
638
1641134
2825
和它是可能，而采取的非常措施
27:35
to, "weaken encryption,"
639
1643959
2669
以"削弱加密"
27:38
and allow yourself to find the bad guys,
640
1646628
2153
允许你自己找到的坏家伙，
27:40
might also open the door to forms of cyberattack?
641
1648781
4273
可能还敞开一扇门招致网络攻击吗？
27:45
RL: So I think two things.
642
1653054
2843
理查德‧莱杰特：我想说两件事情。
27:47
One is, you said weaken encryption. I didn't.
643
1655897
3847
一是你说的削弱加密。我没有。
27:51
And the other one is that
644
1659744
5126
那是另一个
27:56
the NSA has both of those missions,
645
1664870
2776
美国国家安全局
同时具有这些特派团，
同时具有这些特派团，
27:59
and we are heavily biased towards defense,
646
1667646
2281
我们都严重偏向于防御，
28:01
and, actually, the vulnerabilities that we find
647
1669927
3517
实际上，我们发现的漏洞
28:05
in the overwhelming majority of cases,
648
1673444
2101
在绝大多数情况下，
28:07
we disclose to the people who are responsible
649
1675545
2773
我们向那些负责任的人披露
28:10
for manufacturing or developing those products.
650
1678318
3363
那些人负责制造或开发这些产品。
28:13
We have a great track record of that,
651
1681681
1383
我们有记录，
28:15
and we're actually working on a proposal right now
652
1683064
1986
我们实际上正在建议
28:17
to be transparent and to
publish transparency reports
publish transparency reports
653
1685050
3170
要透明，透明度报告发布
28:20
in the same way that the Internet companies
654
1688220
2886
与互联网公司同样
28:23
are being allowed to publish
transparency reports for them.
transparency reports for them.
655
1691106
3867
都允许发布透明度报告。
28:26
We want to be more transparent about that.
656
1694973
1998
我们想要变得更加透明。
28:28
So again, we eat our own dog food.
657
1696971
3129
同样的我们吃我们自己的狗食。
28:32
We use the standards, we use the products
658
1700100
2253
我们使用同样的标准，
我们使用同样的产品
我们使用同样的产品
28:34
that we recommend,
659
1702353
2655
我们建议，
28:37
and so it's in our interest
660
1705008
2295
所以这是我们的利益所在
28:39
to keep our communications protected
661
1707303
2638
以保护我们的通信
28:41
in the same way that other people's need to be.
662
1709941
3804
以其他人所需要的同样的方式。
28:45
CA: Edward Snowden,
663
1713745
3190
克里斯‧安德森：爱德华‧斯诺登
28:48
when, after his talk, was wandering the halls here
664
1716935
4428
在他的谈话之后通过机器人
28:53
in the bot,
665
1721363
1245
在这里徘徊，
28:54
and I heard him say to a couple of people,
666
1722608
2188
我听到几个人
28:56
they asked him about what he thought
667
1724796
1617
问他对于美国国安局
28:58
of the NSA overall,
668
1726413
1593
总的看法，
29:00
and he was very complimentary about the people
669
1728006
2773
他对那些与你共事的人
29:02
who work with you,
670
1730779
2021
称赞有加，
29:04
said that it's a really
671
1732800
3923
他说这些是
29:08
impassioned group of employees
672
1736723
1960
充满干劲的员工，
29:10
who are seeking to do the right thing,
673
1738683
2449
这些员工在做正确的事，
29:13
and that the problems have come from
674
1741132
2954
而问题只是来自于
29:16
just some badly conceived policies.
675
1744086
3119
错误构想的政策。
29:19
He came over certainly very reasonably and calmly.
676
1747205
4445
他的表现非常合理并且冷静。
29:23
He didn't come over like a crazy man.
677
1751650
2175
他不是个疯子。
29:25
Would you accept that at least,
678
1753825
1970
你会接受这样的看法吗，
29:27
even if you disagree with how he did it,
679
1755795
3016
即使你不同意他的作法，
29:30
that he has opened a debate that matters?
680
1758811
4024
但他开启了一场重要辩论？
29:34
RL: So I think that the discussion
681
1762835
2398
理查德‧莱杰特：我认为，
29:37
is an important one to have.
682
1765233
1864
讨论是重要的。
29:39
I do not like the way that he did it.
683
1767097
3376
我不喜欢他那样的处理方式。
29:42
I think there were a number of other ways
684
1770473
2005
我认为有多种其他的方法
29:44
that he could have done that
685
1772478
1462
可供选择，
29:45
that would have not endangered our people
686
1773940
3296
那些方法不会危及我们的人民
29:49
and the people of other nations
687
1777236
2648
和其他国家的人民，
29:51
through losing visibility
688
1779884
2111
失去看到我们对手
29:53
into what our adversaries are doing.
689
1781995
2731
在做什么的能力。
29:56
But I do think it's an important conversation.
690
1784726
2686
但我认为它是一个重要的谈话。
29:59
CA: It's been reported that there's
691
1787412
1539
克里斯‧安德森：报道称
30:00
almost a difference of opinion
692
1788951
2109
你和你的同事们
30:03
with you and your colleagues
693
1791060
1471
有着几乎不同的意见
30:04
over any scenario in which
694
1792531
2053
在何种情况下，
30:06
he might be offered an amnesty deal.
695
1794584
2603
他可能会提出大赦协议。
30:09
I think your boss, General Keith Alexander,
696
1797187
2711
我想，你的老板，
基思‧亚历山大将军，
基思‧亚历山大将军，
30:11
has said that that would be a terrible example
697
1799898
1986
说过这这将是一个对他人的
30:13
for others;
698
1801884
1465
糟糕示范；
30:15
you can't negotiate with someone
699
1803349
1657
你不能与那些已经
30:17
who's broken the law in that way.
700
1805006
2008
已经触犯了法律的人商谈。
30:19
But you've been quoted as saying that,
701
1807014
2009
但你曾说过，
30:21
if Snowden could prove that he was surrendering
702
1809023
3208
如果斯诺登交出
30:24
all undisclosed documents,
703
1812231
1796
所有未披露的文件，
30:26
that a deal maybe should be considered.
704
1814027
2239
这样的交易也许应该可以考虑。
30:28
Do you still think that?
705
1816266
2970
你仍然这样认为吗？
30:31
RL: Yeah, so actually,
706
1819236
1518
理查德‧莱杰特：是的，实际上，
30:32
this is my favorite thing about
that "60 Minutes" interview
that "60 Minutes" interview
707
1820754
2583
这是我最喜欢的《60分钟》 采访，
30:35
was all the misquotes that came from that.
708
1823337
1712
一切都是值得。
30:37
What I actually said, in
response to a question about,
response to a question about,
709
1825049
2915
我在回答如下问题，
30:39
would you entertain any discussions
710
1827964
1812
你愿意包容
30:41
of mitigating action against Snowden,
711
1829776
6385
有关减轻对斯诺登采取行动的讨论吗？
30:48
I said, yeah, it's worth a conversation.
712
1836161
1832
我说是的，
它是值得的一次谈话。
它是值得的一次谈话。
30:49
This is something that the attorney general
713
1837993
1635
这些事情美国的司法部长
30:51
of the United States and the president also
714
1839628
1930
和总统都
30:53
actually have both talked about this,
715
1841558
1538
谈到过这样的问题，
30:55
and I defer to the attorney general,
716
1843096
1369
我遵从司法部长，
30:56
because this is his lane.
717
1844465
1547
因为这是他的领域。
30:58
But there is a strong tradition
718
1846012
2509
但是美国法律界
31:00
in American jurisprudence
719
1848521
3192
较强的传统是
31:03
of having discussions with people
720
1851713
4575
与那些被控有罪
31:08
who have been charged with crimes in order to,
721
1856288
1844
但可能对政府有益的人
31:10
if it benefits the government,
722
1858132
1516
进行交谈协商，
31:11
to get something out of that,
723
1859648
2378
以得到一些东西，
31:14
that there's always room for that kind of discussion.
724
1862026
2634
总会有这种讨论的余地。
31:16
So I'm not presupposing any outcome,
725
1864660
1689
所以我不会假设任何结果，
31:18
but there is always room for discussion.
726
1866349
3736
但总是会有讨论的空间。
31:22
CA: To a lay person it seems like
727
1870085
1600
克里斯‧安德森：在非专业人士看来
31:23
he has certain things to offer the U.S.,
728
1871685
3368
他有一些东西可以提供给美国，
31:27
the government, you, others,
729
1875053
1739
政府，你，其他人，
31:28
in terms of putting things right
730
1876792
1681
以纠正错误
31:30
and helping figure out a smarter policy,
731
1878473
2058
并帮助找出一个更优异的政策，
31:32
a smarter way forward for the future.
732
1880531
5206
和走向未来的好方法。
31:38
Do you see, has that kind of possibility
733
1886988
2073
你认为这种可能性
31:41
been entertained at all?
734
1889061
2398
会被包容吗？
31:43
RL: So that's out of my lane.
735
1891459
1638
理查德‧莱杰特：这已超出我领域。
31:45
That's not an NSA thing.
736
1893097
1529
这不是一个美国国家安全局的事情。
31:46
That would be a Department of Justice
737
1894626
2207
这将是司法部的
31:48
sort of discussion.
738
1896833
2497
研究讨论。
31:51
I'll defer to them.
739
1899330
3296
我会听从他们。
31:54
CA: Rick, when Ed Snowden ended his talk,
740
1902626
2965
克里斯‧安德森：理查德，
当斯诺登结束讲话的时候，
当斯诺登结束讲话的时候，
31:57
I offered him the chance to
share an idea worth spreading.
share an idea worth spreading.
741
1905591
3745
我请他分享
值得传播的想法。
值得传播的想法。
32:01
What would be your idea worth spreading
742
1909336
1653
你值得传播的想法
32:02
for this group?
743
1910989
2282
是什么呢？
32:05
RL: So I think, learn the facts.
744
1913271
1992
理查德‧莱杰特：我认为是，了解事实。
32:07
This is a really important conversation,
745
1915263
2616
这是一个非常重要的谈话，
32:09
and it impacts, it's not just NSA,
746
1917879
2076
它的影响涉及极广，
不只是有关于美国国家安全局，
不只是有关于美国国家安全局，
32:11
it's not just the government,
747
1919955
1198
不是只有关于政府，
32:13
it's you, it's the Internet companies.
748
1921153
2908
它有关于你，它有关于互联网公司。
32:16
The issue of privacy and personal data
749
1924061
3118
隐私和个人数据的问题
32:19
is much bigger than just the government,
750
1927179
1577
比政府多得多，
32:20
and so learn the facts.
751
1928756
1911
所以了解事实。
32:22
Don't rely on headlines,
752
1930667
1596
不要依赖头条新闻，
32:24
don't rely on sound bites,
753
1932263
1676
不要依赖于大众评论，
32:25
don't rely on one-sided conversations.
754
1933939
2480
不要依赖于片面的看法。
32:28
So that's the idea, I think, worth spreading.
755
1936419
3149
这就是我认为，值得推广的想法。
32:31
We have a sign, a badge tab,
756
1939568
3393
我们有一个标志，
一个徽章，
一个徽章，
32:34
we wear badges at work with lanyards,
757
1942961
1889
我们在工作时
用挂袋佩戴徽章，
用挂袋佩戴徽章，
32:36
and if I could make a plug,
758
1944850
1413
如果我能制作一个插头，
32:38
my badge lanyard at work says, "Dallas Cowboys."
759
1946263
2747
证件挂绳上写着，
"达拉斯牛仔队"。
"达拉斯牛仔队"。
32:41
Go Dallas.
760
1949010
3497
去达拉斯。
32:44
I've just alienated half the audience, I know.
761
1952507
2666
我已经疏远了一半的观众，我知道。
32:47
So the lanyard that our people
762
1955173
3896
所以我们员工
32:51
who work in the organization
763
1959069
1785
那些在工作中
32:52
that does our crypto-analytic work
764
1960854
2420
处理密码分析的员工
32:55
have a tab that says, "Look at the data."
765
1963274
1941
有一个挂绳标签，
写着“看看这些数据”。
写着“看看这些数据”。
32:57
So that's the idea worth spreading.
766
1965215
1536
这就是值得传播的思想。
32:58
Look at the data.
767
1966751
2249
看看数据。
33:01
CA: Rick, it took a certain amount of courage,
768
1969000
2992
克里斯‧安德森：理查德，
这需要很大的勇气，
这需要很大的勇气，
33:03
I think, actually, to come and speak openly
769
1971992
2615
我认为，来到这里
33:06
to this group.
770
1974607
1254
公开演讲。
33:07
It's not something the NSA
has done a lot of in the past,
has done a lot of in the past,
771
1975861
2667
这不只关于美国国家安全局
过去的工作成就，
过去的工作成就，
33:10
and plus the technology has been challenging.
772
1978528
3095
这也涉及了对技术水平的挑战。
33:13
We truly appreciate you doing that
773
1981623
1781
我们真的很感激你来到这里
33:15
and sharing in this very important conversation.
774
1983404
2413
与我们大家共享非常重要的演说。
33:17
Thank you so much.
775
1985817
2141
非常感谢。
33:19
RL: Thanks, Chris.
776
1987958
1939
理查德‧莱杰特：谢谢你，克里斯。
33:21
(Applause)
777
1989897
7071
（掌声）
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Richard Ledgett - Deputy director, NSARichard Ledgett is deputy director and senior civilian leader of the National Security Agency. He acts as the agency’s chief operating officer, responsible for guiding and directing studies, operations and policy.
Why you should listen
Richard Ledgett began his NSA career in 1988 and has served in operational, management, and technical leadership positions at the branch, division, office, and group levels. Now, think of him as the COO of the NSA, guiding and directing studies, operations and policy. From 2012 to 2013 he was the Director of the NSA/CSS Threat Operations Center, responsible for round-the-clock cryptologic activities to discover and counter adversary cyber efforts. Prior to NTOC he served in several positions from 2010 to 2012 in the Office of the Director of National Intelligence in both the collection and cyber mission areas. He was the first National Intelligence Manager for Cyber, serving as principal advisor to the Director of National Intelligence on all cyber matters, leading development of the Unified Intelligence Strategy for Cyber, and coordinating cyber activities across the Intelligence Community (IC). Previous positions at NSA include Deputy Director for Analysis and Production (2009-2010), Deputy Director for Data Acquisition (2006-2009), Assistant Deputy Director for Data Acquisition (2005-2006), and Chief, NSA/CSS Pacific (2002-2005). He also served in a joint IC operational activity, and as an instructor and course developer at the National Cryptologic School.
He led the NSA Media Leaks Task Force from June 2013 to January 2014, and was responsible for integrating and overseeing the totality of NSA’s efforts surrounding the unauthorized disclosures of classified information by a former NSA affiliate.
Richard Ledgett | Speaker | TED.com