TEDxSonomaCounty
Mac Barnett: Why a good book is a secret door
麦克•巴内特: 为什么一本好书就是一扇神秘的门
Filmed:
Readability: 3.1
1,882,886 views
童年是超现实的。为什么儿童书籍不也如此呢？在这个异想天开的演讲，得奖作者麦克•巴内特谈到在艺术的领域内，让读者的心得以漫游的超现实写作 － 以及儿童们对故事里的鲸鱼都说些什么。
Mac Barnett - Children's book author
Mac Barnett is a bestselling author of books for children. Full bio
Mac Barnett is a bestselling author of books for children. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:12
Hi everybody. So my name is Mac.
0
439
2092
大家好，我叫麦克
00:14
My job is that I lie to children,
1
2531
4058
我的工作就是欺骗小孩子
00:18
but they're honest lies.
2
6589
2016
不过都是善意的谎言
00:20
I write children's books,
3
8605
1768
我创作儿童文学
00:22
and there's a quote from Pablo Picasso,
4
10373
3228
巴勃罗·毕加索曾有一句名言
00:25
"We all know that Art is not truth.
5
13601
3186
“我们都知道艺术并非真理
00:28
Art is a lie that makes us realize truth
6
16787
3642
艺术是能使我们意识到真理的谎言
00:32
or at least the truth that is
given us to understand.
given us to understand.
7
20429
2698
或者至少使我们意识到
我们能认同的真理
我们能认同的真理
00:35
The artist must know the manner whereby
8
23127
2110
艺术家必须懂得一些方法
00:37
to convince others of the
truthfulness of his lies."
truthfulness of his lies."
9
25237
4837
来使人们信服他谎言中的真实”
00:42
I first heard this when I was a kid,
10
30074
2858
第一次听到这话的时候，我还是个小孩
00:44
and I loved it,
11
32932
1691
那时就很喜欢这个说法
00:46
but I had no idea what it meant.
12
34623
2792
但是我不知道他说的是啥意思
00:49
(Laughter)
13
37415
1577
（笑声）
00:50
So I thought, you know what, it's what I'm here
14
38992
1897
你知道吗，这是我今天要讲的
00:52
to talk to you today about, though,
15
40889
1619
真理与谎言
00:54
truth and lies, fiction and reality.
16
42508
2213
虚构与现实
00:56
So how could I untangle
17
44721
1852
那我到底该如何理解
00:58
this knotted bunch of sentences?
18
46573
2527
这段令人匪夷所思的话呢
01:01
And I said, I've got PowerPoint.
Let's do a Venn diagram.
Let's do a Venn diagram.
19
49100
3427
不如用 PowerPoint 来做个文氏图吧
01:04
["Truth. Lies."]
(Laughter)
(Laughter)
20
52527
2493
［“真实” “谎言”］
（笑声）
（笑声）
01:07
So there it is, right there, boom.
21
55020
1760
就是这个，很棒吧？
01:08
We've got truth and lies
22
56780
1705
有真实和谎言两部分
01:10
and then there's this little space,
23
58485
1072
还有两个边缘交界
01:11
the edge, in the middle.
24
59557
1561
那个中间的地方
01:13
That liminal space, that's art.
25
61118
6800
那就是艺术
01:19
All right. Venn diagram. (Laughter) (Applause)
26
67918
4997
嗯，文氏图（笑声）（掌声）
01:24
But that's actually not very helpful either.
27
72915
3026
但是这好像也不是很有用
01:27
The thing that made me understand
28
75941
4375
使我理解这段话的
01:32
that quote and really kind of what art,
29
80316
2490
以及真正使我对艺术——
01:34
at least the art of fiction, was,
30
82806
2217
或者至少是小说的艺术
有所理解的
有所理解的
01:37
was working with kids.
31
85023
1440
就是为孩子们工作的时候
01:38
I used to be a summer camp counselor.
32
86463
2260
我曾是夏令营的指导老师
01:40
I would do it on my summers off from college,
33
88723
2287
我在大学暑假时担任这种工作
01:43
and I loved it.
34
91010
3379
也很喜爱这个工作
01:46
It was a sports summer camp
35
94389
1759
那是一个为4到6岁的孩子们
01:48
for four- to six-year-olds.
36
96148
1834
举办的运动夏令营
01:49
I was in charge of the four-year-olds,
37
97982
1646
我负责带领四岁的孩子
01:51
which is good, because
38
99628
1803
那很棒，因为
01:53
four-year-olds can't play
sports, and neither can I.
sports, and neither can I.
39
101431
3349
四岁的孩子还不会运动
正巧我也不会
正巧我也不会
01:56
(Laughter)
40
104780
1575
（笑声）
01:58
I play sports at a four-year-old level,
41
106355
2925
我就搞四岁小孩儿级别的运动
02:01
so what would happen is the kids would
42
109280
3717
实际情况就是
02:04
dribble around some cones, and then got hot,
43
112997
1699
孩子们绕着交通锥运球
玩得大汗淋漓
玩得大汗淋漓
02:06
and then they would go sit underneath the tree
44
114696
2263
然后他们去树下面休息
02:08
where I was already sitting — (Laughter) —
45
116959
2845
结果我早就在那儿坐着了
—（笑声）—
—（笑声）—
02:11
and I would just make up stories and tell them to them
46
119804
2545
我会编故事讲给他们听
02:14
and I would tell them stories about my life.
47
122349
1819
也会给他们编造关于我的故事
02:16
I would tell them about how, on the weekends,
48
124168
1743
我告诉他们，我周末回到家以后
02:17
I would go home and I would
spy for the Queen of England.
spy for the Queen of England.
49
125911
3215
为英国女王做秘密侦查
02:21
And soon, other kids
50
129126
3321
很快，其他有些
02:24
who weren't even in my group of kids,
51
132447
1840
不在我组里的孩子
02:26
they would come up to me, and they would say,
52
134287
1469
也会到我这儿来，然后说
02:27
"You're Mac Barnett, right?
53
135756
1912
“你就是麦克·巴耐特，对吧？
02:29
You're the guy who spies for the Queen of England."
54
137668
3069
那个暗中为英国女王做侦查的家伙？”
02:32
And I had been waiting my whole life for strangers
55
140737
3222
我这一生都在热切期盼着
02:35
to come up and ask me that question.
56
143959
2430
能有陌生人来问我这个问题
02:38
In my fantasy, they were svelte Russian women,
57
146389
2273
在我的幻想中，
她们应该是苗条的俄罗斯女人
她们应该是苗条的俄罗斯女人
02:40
but, you know, four-year-olds —
58
148662
1237
但是，你们懂的，四岁的孩子——
02:41
you take what you can get in Berkeley, California.
59
149899
4629
在加州的伯克利还有什么好奢求的呢
02:46
And I realized that the stories that I was telling
60
154528
4428
然后我意识到，这些故事
02:50
were real in this way that was familiar to me
61
158956
3497
在以我熟悉的方式讲给孩子们时
02:54
and really exciting.
62
162453
1205
变得无比真实且振奋人心
02:55
I think the pinnacle of this for
me — I'll never forget this —
me — I'll never forget this —
63
163658
2206
这件事达到顶峰的契机——
我永远不会忘记这件事——
我永远不会忘记这件事——
02:57
there was this little girl
named Riley. She was tiny,
named Riley. She was tiny,
64
165864
2823
我的组里有个叫莱利的小女孩，小个子
03:00
and she used to always take
out her lunch every day
out her lunch every day
65
168687
2439
她总是每天把午饭拿出来
03:03
and she would throw out her fruit.
66
171126
2340
然后把里面的水果扔掉
03:05
She would just take her fruit,
67
173466
1408
她拿出水果
03:06
her mom packed her a melon every day,
68
174874
1348
她妈妈每天给她装一个甜瓜
03:08
and she would just throw it in the ivy
69
176222
1749
但是她把它扔进藤蔓丛里
03:09
and then she would eat fruit snacks
70
177971
2313
然后吃水果零食和布丁
03:12
and pudding cups, and I was like, "Riley,
71
180284
2373
我对她说：“莱利
03:14
you can't do that, you
have to eat the fruit."
have to eat the fruit."
72
182657
3056
你不能那样。必须把水果吃掉”
03:17
And she was like, "Why?"
73
185713
1817
她问“为什么？”
03:19
And I was like, "Well, when
you throw the fruit in the ivy,
you throw the fruit in the ivy,
74
187530
1832
我就说：“嗯，
你要是把甜瓜扔到藤蔓丛那儿
你要是把甜瓜扔到藤蔓丛那儿
03:21
pretty soon, it's going to be overgrown with melons,"
75
189362
3892
那里很快就会长满一整片的甜瓜”
03:25
which is why I think I ended up
76
193254
2002
这就是为啥我后来成为
03:27
telling stories to children and not
being a nutritionist for children.
being a nutritionist for children.
77
195256
5619
儿童故事书的作者，
而不是成为孩子们的营养师了
而不是成为孩子们的营养师了
03:32
And so Riley was like, "That will never happen.
78
200875
1888
莱利说：“那种事不会发生的
03:34
That's not going to happen."
79
202763
1100
绝对不可能”
03:35
And so, on the last day of camp,
80
203863
3051
因此，夏令营的最后一天
03:38
I got up early and I got a big cantaloupe
81
206914
2453
我早早起床
03:41
from the grocery store
82
209367
2026
到杂货店买了一个大哈密瓜
03:43
and I hid it in the ivy,
83
211393
2102
把它藏进了藤蔓丛里
03:45
and then at lunchtime, I was like,
84
213495
1451
午饭时间，我说
03:46
"Riley, why don't you go over
there and see what you've done."
there and see what you've done."
85
214946
2675
“莱利，你真该看看你都做了些什么”
03:49
And — (Laughter) —
86
217621
3175
然后— (笑声) —
03:52
she went trudging through
the ivy, and then her eyes
the ivy, and then her eyes
87
220796
2678
她吃力地穿过藤蔓
03:55
just got so wide, and she pointed out this melon
88
223474
2092
然后一下瞪大眼睛
03:57
that was bigger than her head,
89
225566
2114
发现了这个比她的脑袋都大的哈密瓜
03:59
and then all the kids ran over
there and rushed around her,
there and rushed around her,
90
227680
2970
之后所有的孩子都跑过去
簇拥在她四周
簇拥在她四周
04:02
and one of the kids was like, "Hey,
91
230650
1587
其中一个孩子突然叫道
04:04
why is there a sticker on this?"
92
232237
1889
“嘿，哈密瓜上面为什么粘着个标签？”
04:06
(Laughter)
93
234126
3224
（笑声）
04:09
And I was like, "That is also why I say
94
237350
2469
我就说：“这就是为什么
04:11
do not throw your stickers in the ivy.
95
239819
2992
我也不让你们把标签扔进藤蔓丛里
04:14
Put them in the trash can. It
ruins nature when you do this."
ruins nature when you do this."
96
242811
5472
要把它们丢进垃圾桶
乱丢的话会破坏环境”
乱丢的话会破坏环境”
04:20
And Riley carried that melon around with her all day,
97
248283
5350
莱利一整天都带着那个哈密瓜
04:25
and she was so proud.
98
253633
2028
她无比自豪
04:27
And Riley knew she didn't
grow a melon in seven days,
grow a melon in seven days,
99
255661
4844
莱利知道她无法在七天内种出哈密瓜来
04:32
but she also knew that she did,
100
260505
2936
但她也知道她确实做到了
04:35
and it's a weird place,
101
263441
2216
那是个不可思议的区域
04:37
but it's not just a place that kids can get to.
102
265657
2745
然而它并不是只有孩子才能做到
04:40
It's anything. Art can get us to that place.
103
268402
3532
我们都可以。我们可借助艺术到达那里
04:43
She was right in that place in the middle,
104
271934
1957
她就是在真实与谎言的交界处
04:45
that place which you could call art or fiction.
105
273891
3425
在可以被称之为艺术或虚构的区域里
04:49
I'm going to call it wonder.
106
277316
2065
我更愿意称这个区域为“奇迹”
04:51
It's what Coleridge called the
willing suspension of disbelief
willing suspension of disbelief
107
279381
2629
这就是柯尔律治所说的
”自愿悬置怀疑“
”自愿悬置怀疑“
04:54
or poetic faith,
108
282010
1680
或者说，“诗意的信仰”
04:55
for those moments where a
story, no matter how strange,
story, no matter how strange,
109
283690
2410
意思是说对于一个拥有真实表象的故事
04:58
has some semblance of the truth,
110
286100
2040
不管它有多奇怪
05:00
and then you're able to believe it.
111
288140
1977
你都能够相信
05:02
It's not just kids who can get there.
112
290117
1630
不是只有孩子们能做到
05:03
Adults can too, and we get there when we read.
113
291747
2689
大人也可以，我们可以通过阅读做到
05:06
It's why in two days, people will be
114
294436
2250
这就是为什么在两天內
05:08
descending on Dublin to take the walking tour
115
296686
3534
人们涌入都柏林
来一场“布鲁姆日”的远足
来一场“布鲁姆日”的远足
05:12
of Bloomsday and see everything
that happened in "Ulysses,"
that happened in "Ulysses,"
116
300220
5605
见证《尤利西斯》的故事里发生的一切
05:17
even though none of that happened.
117
305825
2255
尽管那些事情从未发生过
05:20
Or people go to London and they visit Baker Street
118
308080
2257
人们也去伦敦，造访贝克街
05:22
to see Sherlock Holmes' apartment,
119
310337
1472
看看夏洛克·福尔摩斯的公寓
05:23
even though 221B is just a number that was painted
120
311809
2127
尽管221B
只是一个被涂在建筑物上的编号
只是一个被涂在建筑物上的编号
05:25
on a building that never
actually had that address.
actually had that address.
121
313936
3146
那个门牌号也从未存在过
05:29
We know these characters aren't real,
122
317082
1725
我们知道这些角色不是真实的
05:30
but we have real feelings about them,
123
318807
2620
但是我们会对他们产生真实的感情
05:33
and we're able to do that.
124
321427
1044
我们可以做到
05:34
We know these characters aren't real,
125
322471
1893
我们知道这些角色不是真实的
05:36
and yet we also know that they are.
126
324364
3318
然而我们也相信他们是真的
05:39
Kids can get there a lot more easily than adults can,
127
327682
3656
孩子们比大人容易做到这一点
05:43
and that's why I love writing for kids.
128
331338
1553
这就是我热爱创作儿童文学的原因
05:44
I think kids are the best audience
129
332891
1980
我认为对于虚构的文学作品来说
05:46
for serious literary fiction.
130
334871
4389
孩子们是最好的读者
05:51
When I was a kid,
131
339260
2824
我还是个孩子的时候
05:54
I was obsessed with secret door novels,
132
342084
2626
我一直对“秘密之门”的那类小说无比着迷
05:56
things like "Narnia,"
133
344710
1161
比如说《纳尼亚传奇》（Narnia）
05:57
where you would open a wardrobe
and go through to a magical land.
and go through to a magical land.
134
345871
3703
在故事里，
穿过衣橱的柜门就能进入魔幻世界
穿过衣橱的柜门就能进入魔幻世界
06:01
And I was convinced that secret doors really did exist
135
349574
2730
我那时坚信那样的秘密之门确实存在
06:04
and I would look for them and try to go through them.
136
352304
2028
我尝试着寻找它们
梦想着进入秘密之门
梦想着进入秘密之门
06:06
I wanted to live and cross over into
that fictional world, which is —
that fictional world, which is —
137
354332
3744
我想穿越那个虚构的世界——
06:10
I would always just open people's closet doors.
(Laughter)
(Laughter)
138
358076
5695
其实我就是去开人家的衣柜门
（笑声）
（笑声）
06:15
I would just go through my mom's boyfriend's closet,
139
363771
2777
我尝试翻遍我妈妈的男朋友的衣柜
06:18
and there was not a secret magical land there.
140
366548
2250
里面没有藏着秘密的魔幻世界
06:20
There was some other weird stuff that
I think my mom should know about.
I think my mom should know about.
141
368798
2588
但是却有些奇怪的玩意儿
我觉得我妈妈应该知道
我觉得我妈妈应该知道
06:23
(Laughter)
142
371386
1721
（笑声）
06:25
And I was happy to tell her all about it.
143
373107
4165
我很乐意把那些玩意儿告诉妈妈
06:31
After college, my first job was working
144
379545
4138
大学毕业后 我的第一份工作
06:35
behind one of these secret doors.
145
383683
2548
就是在“秘密之门”后面做事
06:38
This is a place called 826 Valencia.
146
386231
1957
这地方叫"826瓦伦西亚"
（826 Valencia）
（826 Valencia）
06:40
It's at 826 Valencia Street
147
388188
2092
它坐落于瓦伦西亚街826号
06:42
in the Mission in San Francisco,
148
390280
2486
位于旧金山的山米逊区
06:44
and when I worked there, there
was a publishing company
was a publishing company
149
392766
2026
我在那里工作的时候
有一家出版公司
有一家出版公司
06:46
headquartered there called McSweeney's,
150
394792
2639
在那里设立总部
名叫麦克斯维尼（McSweeney's）
名叫麦克斯维尼（McSweeney's）
06:49
a nonprofit writing center called 826 Valencia,
151
397431
3154
一家非营利的写作中心
名叫“826瓦伦西亚”
名叫“826瓦伦西亚”
06:52
but then the front of it
152
400585
2205
但是它的前方
06:54
was a strange shop.
153
402790
1570
是一家奇怪的小商店
06:56
You see, this place was zoned retail,
154
404360
1427
你们知道
那里是零售店区
那里是零售店区
06:57
and in San Francisco, they were
not going to give us a variance,
not going to give us a variance,
155
405787
3116
在旧金山，他们不可能为我们开例
07:00
and so the writer who founded
it, a writer named Dave Eggers,
it, a writer named Dave Eggers,
156
408903
2887
开这家店的是一个
名叫戴夫·埃格斯的作家
名叫戴夫·埃格斯的作家
07:03
to come into compliance
with code, he said, "Fine,
with code, he said, "Fine,
157
411790
2339
为了遵守规范
他说：“好
他说：“好
07:06
I'm just going to build a pirate supply store."
158
414129
4376
我就在这儿开家海盗用品商店吧”
07:10
And that's what he did. (Laughter)
159
418505
3078
他真的就这么做了（笑声）
07:13
And it's beautiful. It's all wood.
160
421583
1951
店里很漂亮，全木的
07:15
There's drawers you can pull out and get citrus
161
423534
1930
拉开抽屉就能找到柑橘
07:17
so you don't get scurvy.
162
425464
3019
吃了它可以防止坏血病
07:20
They have eyepatches in lots of colors,
163
428483
2148
他们有五颜六色的眼罩
07:22
because when it's springtime, pirates want to go wild.
164
430631
2700
因为海盗们一到春天就想疯一下
07:25
You don't know. Black is boring. Pastel.
165
433331
4343
你们不会知道
黑色多无聊啊 寡淡无味
黑色多无聊啊 寡淡无味
07:29
Or eyes, also in lots of colors,
166
437674
1996
还有五颜六色的假眼珠子，
07:31
just glass eyes, depending on how you want
167
439670
1805
玻璃做的，（戴哪个）取决于你要如何处理
07:33
to deal with that situation.
168
441475
3712
要面对的情况
07:37
And the store, strangely,
169
445187
3125
关于那个商店最奇怪的是
07:40
people came to them and bought things,
170
448312
4012
人们居然来买东西
07:44
and they ended up paying the rent
171
452324
1827
后来，店铺的收入
07:46
for our tutoring center, which was behind it,
172
454151
2064
足够为店铺后面的辅导中心支付租金
07:48
but to me, more important was the fact
173
456215
3052
但对我来说，更重要的是
07:51
that I think the quality of work you do,
174
459267
2651
工作的质量
07:53
kids would come and get instruction in writing,
175
461918
2486
孩子们来学习写作
07:56
and when you have to walk this weird, liminal,
fictional space like this to go do your writing,
fictional space like this to go do your writing,
176
464404
4266
在你经过像这样的真实与虚构的交界处，
然后写作的时候
然后写作的时候
08:00
it's going to affect the kind of work that you make.
177
468670
3750
你的作品一定会受到影响
08:04
It's a secret door that you can walk through.
178
472420
2187
这是一扇你可以穿越的“秘密之门”
08:06
So I ran the 826 in Los Angeles,
179
474607
2751
因此，我在洛杉矶为“826”工作
08:09
and it was my job to build the store down there.
180
477358
3482
我的活儿就是打理那儿的一间小店铺
08:12
So we have The Echo Park Time Travel Mart.
181
480840
3560
店名叫“回声公园·时间旅行商店”
08:16
That's our motto: "Whenever
you are, we're already then."
you are, we're already then."
182
484400
2840
我们还有个格言
“无论什么时代，我们都已去过了”
“无论什么时代，我们都已去过了”
08:19
(Laughter)
183
487240
3860
（笑声）
08:23
And it's on Sunset Boulevard in Los Angeles.
184
491100
4757
它坐落于洛杉矶的日落大道
08:27
Our friendly staff is ready to help you.
185
495857
2110
我们友好的员工随时恭候
08:29
They're from all eras,
186
497967
2143
他们来自不同时代
08:32
including just the 1980s, that guy on the end,
187
500110
3609
包括1980年代。
就是站在最后面的那个家伙
就是站在最后面的那个家伙
08:35
he's from the very recent past.
188
503719
2197
他所处的时代并不久远
08:37
There's our Employees of the Month,
189
505916
1702
这是我们的“本月优秀员工”
08:39
including Genghis Khan, Charles Dickens.
190
507618
2986
名单上有成吉思汗、查尔斯•狄更斯
08:42
Some great people have come up through our ranks.
191
510604
2992
有些伟人都上了我们的榜
08:45
This is our kind of pharmacy section.
192
513596
2351
这是我们的药品区
08:47
We have some patent medicines,
193
515947
1339
我们有些专利药品
08:49
Canopic jars for your organs,
194
517286
2351
有用来装人体器官的“卡诺卜坛”
08:51
communist soap that says,
195
519637
1634
还有“共产主义肥皂”，上面标着
08:53
"This is your soap for the year."
(Laughter)
(Laughter)
196
521271
4451
“这就是你今年的肥皂”
（笑声）
（笑声）
08:57
Our slushy machine broke
197
525722
2216
店铺开张的第一天晚上，
我们的冰沙机坏掉了
我们的冰沙机坏掉了
08:59
on the opening night and
we didn't know what to do.
we didn't know what to do.
198
527938
2633
我们不知道怎么办才好
09:02
Our architect was covered in red syrup.
199
530571
2239
我们的设计师身上被溅满了红色的糖浆
09:04
It looked like he had just murdered somebody,
200
532810
2474
看起来就像他刚杀了人，全身都是血迹
09:07
which it was not out of the question
201
535284
1687
就这个人而言
09:08
for this particular architect,
202
536971
2050
其实也不是不可能
09:11
and we didn't know what to do.
203
539021
1586
我们束手无策
09:12
It was going to be the highlight of our store.
204
540607
1032
本来这台机器是我们店里的亮点
09:13
So we just put that sign on it that said,
205
541639
1345
所以我们就给它挂上了这个指示牌
09:14
"Out of order. Come back yesterday."
(Laughter)
(Laughter)
206
542984
4505
“故障，请昨天再来”
（笑声）
（笑声）
09:19
And that ended up being a better joke than slushies,
207
547489
2036
结果它成为了一个
比冰沙更棒的笑料
比冰沙更棒的笑料
09:21
so we just left it there forever.
208
549525
4096
所以我们一直保留着那个指示牌
09:25
Mammoth Chunks. These things
weigh, like, seven pounds each.
weigh, like, seven pounds each.
209
553621
4313
“長毛象肉块”
每罐的重量差不多7磅
每罐的重量差不多7磅
09:29
Barbarian repellent. It's full of salad
210
557934
2200
“野人驱除剂”
09:32
and potpourri — things that barbarians hate.
211
560134
4578
装满了沙拉和百花香—野人最恨这个了
09:36
Dead languages.
212
564712
1958
［拉丁文］［古埃及文］
死语言
死语言
09:38
(Laughter)
213
566670
2700
（笑声）
09:41
Leeches, nature's tiny doctors.
214
569370
3080
水蛭：“大自然的小医生”
09:44
And Viking Odorant, which
comes in lots of great scents:
comes in lots of great scents:
215
572450
3140
还有“维京气味”，
里面混合了好几种很赞的气味
里面混合了好几种很赞的气味
09:47
toenails, sweat and rotten vegetables, pyre ash.
216
575590
4005
脚趾甲、汗液和腐烂蔬菜的味儿，
还有火葬的柴灰
还有火葬的柴灰
09:51
Because we believe that Axe Body Spray
217
579595
2108
因为我们认为你应该
09:53
is something that you should
only find on the battlefield,
only find on the battlefield,
218
581703
1663
在战场找斧牌香体喷雾
09:55
not under your arms.
(Laughter)
(Laughter)
219
583366
4194
而不是在你的腋下去找
（笑声）
（笑声）
09:59
And these are robot emotion chips,
220
587560
1984
我们还出售机器人情感晶片
10:01
so robots can feel love or fear.
221
589544
2227
有了晶片，机器人就能
感受到爱或恐惧
感受到爱或恐惧
10:03
Our biggest seller is Schadenfreude,
222
591771
1710
店内最畅销产品是「幸灾乐祸」
10:05
which we did not expect.
223
593481
1301
这是我们没有想到的
10:06
(Laughter)
224
594782
1011
（笑声）
10:07
We did not think that was going to happen.
225
595793
2447
我们从未想过会如此畅销
10:10
But there's a nonprofit behind it,
226
598240
2261
但这家店后面的写作中心，是非盈利性质的
10:12
and kids go through a door
that says "Employees Only"
that says "Employees Only"
227
600501
1980
孩子们进入门上贴有「非员工勿进」标示的写作中心
10:14
and they end up in this space
228
602481
1215
然后就在这里做功课、
10:15
where they do homework and write stories
229
603696
2174
编故事、制作电影
10:17
and make films and this is a book release party
230
605870
2460
这是新书发布会
10:20
where kids will read.
231
608330
1484
孩子们在这里阅读
10:21
There's a quarterly that's published
232
609814
1902
这里每季度都要发行
10:23
with just writing that's done by the kids
233
611716
1429
孩子们利用每天放学后的时间
10:25
who come every day after school,
234
613145
1057
在这里完成的写作作品
10:26
and we have release parties
235
614202
1528
我们还举行发布会
10:27
and they eat cake and read for their parents
236
615730
2947
孩子们一边吃着蛋糕
一边把作品读给父母听
一边把作品读给父母听
10:30
and drink milk out of champagne glasses.
237
618677
2852
还用香槟酒杯喝牛奶
10:33
And it's a very special space,
238
621529
3248
这里真的是一个很特别的地方
10:36
because it's this weird space in the front.
239
624777
3219
完全是因为前面的那家怪异商店
10:39
The joke isn't a joke.
240
627996
3299
笑话不再是笑话
10:43
You can't find the seams on the fiction,
241
631295
2400
小说里看不出拼接的痕迹
10:45
and I love that. It's this little bit of fiction
242
633695
2908
我超爱这点，正是这种小小说
10:48
that's colonized the real world.
243
636603
3262
俘获了现实世界
10:51
I see it as kind of a book in three dimensions.
244
639865
4057
我觉得它有点像三维立体书
10:55
There's a term called metafiction,
245
643922
2240
有个词叫「元小说」
10:58
and that's just stories about stories,
246
646162
4083
即讲述小说的小说
11:02
and meta's having a moment now.
247
650245
1575
现在「元」的概念非常热门
11:03
Its last big moment was probably in the 1960s
248
651820
2025
上次流行的时候可能是 1960 年代
11:05
with novelists like John Barth and William Gaddis,
249
653845
2677
以小说家约翰•巴思
和威廉•加迪斯为代表
和威廉•加迪斯为代表
11:08
but it's been around.
250
656522
1248
这个技法现在还有人在用
11:09
It's almost as old as storytelling itself.
251
657770
3541
它的历史几乎和讲故事一样久远
11:13
And one metafictive technique
252
661311
2540
其中有一个元小说技巧
11:15
is breaking the fourth wall. Right?
253
663851
1794
是打破第 4 堵墙 对吧
11:17
It's when an actor will turn to the audience
254
665645
3250
举个例子，演员面向观众
11:20
and say, "I am an actor,
255
668895
1066
说道：「我是个演员
11:21
these are just rafters."
256
669961
2591
他们只是些椽木」
11:24
And even that supposedly honest moment,
257
672552
2025
即使是这种看似诚实的介绍
11:26
I would argue, is in service of the lie,
258
674577
2226
在我看来，也是为了揭露谎言
11:28
but it's supposed to foreground the artificiality
259
676803
2756
使小说人为的虚构性
11:31
of the fiction.
260
679559
1687
更加突出
11:33
For me, I kind of prefer the opposite.
261
681246
2149
对我而言，我喜欢反其道而行之
11:35
If I'm going to break down the fourth wall,
262
683395
2134
如果我要拆除第 4 堵墙
11:37
I want fiction to escape
263
685529
2343
我希望小说逃离
11:39
and come into the real world.
264
687872
2083
进入现实世界
11:41
I want a book to be a secret door that opens
265
689955
4599
我希望书籍能成为一扇秘密之门
11:46
and lets the stories out into reality.
266
694554
2892
开启故事王国，再进入现实世界
11:49
And so I try to do this in my books.
267
697446
2981
写自己的书时我一直努力这样做
11:52
And here's just one example.
268
700427
1543
举个简单的例子
11:53
This is the first book that I ever made.
269
701970
1922
这是我写的第一本书
11:55
It's called "Billy Twitters
and his Blue Whale Problem."
and his Blue Whale Problem."
270
703892
2621
书名叫《比利推特和他的蓝鲸问题》
11:58
And it's about a kid who gets a blue whale as a pet
271
706513
2130
故事讲述一个小孩
养了一条蓝鲸当宠物
养了一条蓝鲸当宠物
12:00
but it's a punishment
272
708643
1586
后果可想而知
12:02
and it ruins his life.
273
710229
2475
毁了他整个人生
12:04
So it's delivered overnight by FedUp.
274
712704
2812
这只蓝鲸以肥死快递送到
12:07
(Laughter)
275
715516
2590
（笑声）
12:10
And he has to take it to school with him.
276
718106
1994
他还得带蓝鲸去学校
12:12
He lives in San Francisco —
277
720100
1354
他住在旧金山
12:13
very tough city to own a blue whale in.
278
721454
2531
这个城市能养条蓝鲸很不容易
12:15
A lot of hills, real estate is at a premium.
279
723985
4434
那里山多、房价高
12:20
This market's crazy, everybody.
280
728419
2508
市场简直不可理喻，各位
12:22
But underneath the jacket is this case,
281
730927
3791
书的封套下面是这个盒子
12:26
and that's the cover underneath the book, the jacket,
282
734718
4186
那是书下面的封面 封套
12:30
and there's an ad
283
738904
1380
上面是一则广告
12:32
that offers a free 30-day risk-free trial
284
740284
3243
30 天免费试养蓝鲸
12:35
for a blue whale.
285
743527
1899
30 天免费试养蓝鲸
12:37
And you can just send in a
self-addressed stamped envelope
self-addressed stamped envelope
286
745426
2994
读者只需寄来一个含邮资信封
写上自己的姓名和地址
写上自己的姓名和地址
12:40
and we'll send you a whale.
287
748420
3850
我们将给您寄去一条蓝鲸
12:44
And kids do write in.
288
752270
4340
还真有孩子写信过来
12:48
So here's a letter. It says, "Dear people,
289
756610
3408
这是其中的一封
上面说道：「敬启者，
上面说道：「敬启者，
12:52
I bet you 10 bucks you won't send me a blue whale.
290
760018
3181
我赌 10 美元
你们肯定不会给我寄蓝鲸
你们肯定不会给我寄蓝鲸
12:55
Eliot Gannon (age 6)."
291
763199
2477
艾略特•甘农（6 岁）
12:57
(Laughter) (Applause)
292
765676
3674
（笑声）（掌声）
13:02
So what Eliot and the other kids
293
770838
2122
艾略特和其他写信给我们的孩子
13:04
who send these in get back
294
772960
2491
收到的是
13:07
is a letter in very small print
from a Norwegian law firm —
from a Norwegian law firm —
295
775451
2925
一封小号字体打印的信
由挪威一家法律事务所寄出
由挪威一家法律事务所寄出
13:10
(Laughter) —
296
778376
3961
（笑声）
13:14
that says that due to a change in customs laws,
297
782337
3361
信上说，由于海关法修订后
13:17
their whale has been held up in Sognefjord,
298
785698
2207
他们的蓝鲸滞留在松恩峡湾
13:19
which is a very lovely fjord,
299
787905
1224
挪威最美丽的峡湾之一
13:21
and then it just kind of talks about Sognefjord
300
789129
1464
信中接着聊了一会松恩峡湾
13:22
and Norwegian food for
a little while. It digresses.
a little while. It digresses.
301
790593
2480
和挪威的美食。律师也离题了
13:25
(Laughter)
302
793073
1782
（笑声）
13:28
But it finishes off by saying that
303
796767
1913
信最后说道
13:30
your whale would love to hear from you.
304
798680
2734
「蓝鲸期待收到你的回信
13:33
He's got a phone number,
305
801414
1586
他有电话号码
13:35
and you can call and leave him a message.
306
803000
4714
欢迎你来电留言」
13:39
And when you call and leave him a message,
307
807714
2576
当孩子们真的来电留言时
13:42
you just, on the outgoing message,
308
810290
1991
电话这头的录音
13:44
it's just whale sounds and then a beep,
309
812281
5118
是鲸的声音
然后是「哔」的一声
然后是「哔」的一声
13:49
which actually sounds a lot like a whale sound.
310
817399
3555
确实很像鲸的声音
13:52
And they get a picture of their whale too.
311
820954
1980
他们还收到一张蓝鲸的照片
13:54
So this is Randolph,
312
822934
2531
照片里是伦道夫
13:57
and Randolph belongs to a kid named Nico
313
825465
3341
伦道夫属于一位叫尼科的小朋友
14:00
who was one of the first kids to ever call in,
314
828806
4282
他也是第一位打电话来的小读者
14:05
and I'll play you some of Nico's message.
315
833088
2310
现在我给大家放一些尼科的留言
14:07
This is the first message I ever got from Nico.
316
835398
4132
这是我收到尼科的第一条留言
14:11
(Audio) Nico: Hello, this is Nico.
317
839530
2239
（录音）尼科：你好！我是尼科
14:13
I am your owner, Randolph. Hello.
318
841769
4034
我是你的主人，伦道夫。你好啊
14:17
So this is the first time I can ever talk to you,
319
845803
3476
嗯 这是我第一次和你聊天
14:21
and I might talk to you soon another day. Bye.
320
849279
6244
呃，改天我再找你聊了。拜
14:27
Mac Barnett: So Nico called back, like, an hour later.
321
855523
2587
马克•巴内特：然后呢
大概过了一个小时尼科又打过来
大概过了一个小时尼科又打过来
14:30
(Laughter)
322
858110
2250
（笑声）
14:32
And here's another one of Nico's messages.
323
860360
3937
这是尼科的另一条留言
14:36
(Audio) Nico: Hello, Randolph, this is Nico.
324
864297
3543
（录音）尼科：你好
伦道夫，我是尼科
伦道夫，我是尼科
14:39
I haven't talked to you for a long time,
325
867840
5153
好久没和你聊天了
14:44
but I talked to you on Saturday or Sunday,
326
872993
4695
我周六还是周日找你聊过吧
14:49
yeah, Saturday or Sunday,
327
877688
2250
没错，周六或周日
14:51
so now I'm calling you again
328
879938
3015
所以我才又给你打电话了
14:54
to say hello and I wonder what you're doing right now,
329
882953
4916
你好吗，我想知道你现在干嘛呀
14:59
and I'm going to probably call you again
330
887869
2936
我大概会在明天或者今天
15:02
tomorrow or today,
331
890805
2183
再给你打电话
15:04
so I'll talk to you later. Bye.
332
892988
4196
到时我再跟你聊咯，拜
15:09
MB: So he did, he called back that day again.
333
897184
4308
麦克：果然，他当天又打过来了
15:13
He's left over 25 messages for Randolph
334
901492
3881
他一共给伦道夫录了25条留言
15:17
over four years.
335
905373
2752
持续四年的时间
15:20
You find out all about him
336
908125
2091
你会非常了解他
15:22
and the grandma that he loves
337
910216
1636
如他喜爱的奶奶
15:23
and the grandma that
he likes a little bit less —
he likes a little bit less —
338
911852
2355
还有他比较不喜欢的另一位奶奶
15:26
(Laughter) —
339
914207
2193
（笑声）
15:28
and the crossword puzzles that he does,
340
916400
2427
还有，知道他做的填字游戏
15:30
and this is — I'll play you one
more message from Nico.
more message from Nico.
341
918827
3780
让我们听听另一则尼科的留言
15:34
This is the Christmas message from Nico.
342
922607
3303
这是尼科的圣诞留言
15:37
[Beep] (Audio) Nico: Hello, Randolph,
343
925910
2363
[哔]（录音）尼科：你好，伦道夫
15:40
sorry I haven't talked to you in a long time.
344
928273
3255
对不起，我好久没有和你聊天了
15:43
It's just that I've been so busy
345
931528
2666
主要是我一直很忙
15:46
because school started,
346
934194
2699
因为开学了
15:48
as you might not know, probably,
347
936893
3033
你可能不明白，也许吧
15:51
since you're a whale, you don't know,
348
939926
3881
毕竟你是鲸鱼，自然不知道了
15:55
and I'm calling you to just say,
349
943807
4680
我打电话给你，是想说
16:00
to wish you a merry Christmas.
350
948487
3690
祝你圣诞快乐
16:04
So have a nice Christmas,
351
952177
4601
圣诞快乐啊
16:08
and bye-bye, Randolph. Goodbye.
352
956778
6873
拜拜，伦道夫，拜拜
16:15
MB: I actually got Nico,
353
963651
1524
麦克：我很久没听到尼科打电话来
16:17
I hadn't heard from in 18 months,
354
965175
3131
大约18 个月了
16:20
and he just left a message two days ago.
355
968306
4118
不过就在两天前 他留言了
16:24
His voice is completely different,
356
972424
2426
他的声音变化很大
16:26
but he put his babysitter on the phone,
357
974850
3500
他也让保姆讲电话
16:30
and she was very nice to Randolph as well.
358
978350
3861
她对伦道夫也很好
16:34
But Nico's the best reader I could hope for.
359
982211
4350
尼科是我所梦想的最好的读者
16:38
I would want anyone I was writing for
360
986561
3726
我希望我的每位读者
16:42
to be in that place emotionally
361
990287
2141
都能如此用心感受
16:44
with the things that I create.
362
992428
2236
我创造的东西
16:46
I feel lucky. Kids like Nico are the best readers,
363
994664
3701
我觉得很幸运
像尼科这样的小朋友是最好的读者
像尼科这样的小朋友是最好的读者
16:50
and they deserve the best stories we can give them.
364
998365
3595
他们值得我们给他们创作最好的故事
16:53
Thank you very much.
365
1001960
2202
谢谢各位
16:56
(Applause)
366
1004162
2655
（掌声）
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Mac Barnett - Children's book authorMac Barnett is a bestselling author of books for children.
Why you should listen
Mac Barnett is the author of fifteen books for children. He was the executive director of 826LA, a nonprofit writing center, and founded the Echo Park Time Travel Mart, a convenience store for time travelers. In this talk about creativity and wonder, he explains why kids are the ideal readers of literary fiction -- and what adults can learn from them about imagination and the willing suspension of disbelief.
Mac Barnett | Speaker | TED.com