ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Esther Perel - Relationship therapist
Psychotherapist Esther Perel is changing the conversation on what it means to be in love and have a fulfilling sex life.

Why you should listen

For the first time in human history, couples aren’t having sex just to have kids; there’s room for sustained desire and long-term sexual relationships. But how? Perel, a licensed marriage and family therapist with a practice in New York, travels the world to help people answer this question. For her research she works across cultures and is fluent in nine languages. She coaches, consults and speaks regularly on erotic intelligence, trauma, sexual honesty and conflict resolution. She is the author of Mating in Captivity: Reconciling the Erotic and the Domestic. Her latest work focuses on infidelity: what it is, why happy people do it and how couples can recover from it. She aims to locate this very personal experience within a larger cultural context.

More profile about the speaker
Esther Perel | Speaker | TED.com
TED2015

Esther Perel: Rethinking infidelity ... a talk for anyone who has ever loved

艾斯特·佩蕾尔: 艾斯特·佩蕾尔:重新思考婚外情——给所有经历过爱情的人

Filmed:
14,857,688 views

出轨是一种终极背叛。但非这样不可吗?婚姻专家艾斯特·佩蕾尔研究人们出轨的原因,分析婚外情为何令人如此痛苦:因为它威胁了我们的情感安全。在婚外情中,她看到了意想不到的东西——对渴望和失落的表达。对所有曾经出过轨或被出轨伤害过的人,以及那些想重新理解婚姻关系的人而言,这都是一段必看的演讲。
- Relationship therapist
Psychotherapist Esther Perel is changing the conversation on what it means to be in love and have a fulfilling sex life. Full bio

Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.

00:12
Why do we cheat作弊?
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我们为何出轨?
00:16
And why do happy快乐 people cheat作弊?
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为何幸福之人也会出轨?
00:20
And when we say "infidelity不忠,"
what exactly究竟 do we mean?
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我们所谓的“不忠”到底指的是什么?
00:26
Is it a hookup挂钩, a love story故事,
paid支付 sex性别, a chat room房间,
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是一夜情?爱情故事?
有偿性服务?私聊?
00:32
a massage按摩 with a happy快乐 ending结尾?
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还是特殊按摩服务?
00:36
Why do we think that men男人 cheat作弊
out of boredom无聊 and fear恐惧 of intimacy亲密关系,
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为什么我们认为男人出轨
是因为寻求刺激或是害怕亲密关系,
00:41
but women妇女 cheat作弊 out of loneliness孤单
and hunger饥饿 for intimacy亲密关系?
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而女人出轨是因为孤独
或是渴求亲密关系?
00:47
And is an affair事务 always
the end结束 of a relationship关系?
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婚外情是不是意味着婚姻已走到尽头?
00:53
For the past过去 10 years年份,
I have traveled旅行 the globe地球
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在过去十年间,我走遍世界
00:56
and worked工作 extensively广泛
with hundreds数以百计 of couples情侣
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走访了数百对夫妻,
00:59
who have been shattered破灭 by infidelity不忠.
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他们都因出轨而心力交瘁。
01:02
There is one simple简单 act法案 of transgression
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婚外情毫无疑问是一种越轨行为,
01:06
that can rob a couple一对
of their relationship关系,
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它离间夫妻关系,
01:11
their happiness幸福 and their
very identity身分: an affair事务.
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破坏家庭幸福,衍生信任危机。
01:15
And yet然而, this extremely非常 common共同
act法案 is so poorly不好 understood了解.
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然而,我们对这一普遍现象的
理解却极其有限。
01:22
So this talk is for anyone任何人
who has ever loved喜爱.
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因此我将这次演讲
献给所有经历过爱情的人。
01:29
Adultery通奸 has existed存在
since以来 marriage婚姻 was invented发明,
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婚外情自婚姻诞生之日起就存在了,
01:33
and so, too, the taboo忌讳 against反对 it.
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我们对婚外情的反对亦是如此。
01:37
In fact事实, infidelity不忠 has a tenacity韧性
that marriage婚姻 can only envy羡慕,
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实际上,婚外情比婚姻顽强多了,
婚姻只有嫉妒的份儿,
01:42
so much so, that this is
the only commandment诫命
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以至于它成为了圣经的戒律,
01:46
that is repeated重复 twice两次 in the Bible圣经:
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并且重复出现两次:
01:50
once一旦 for doing it, and once一旦
just for thinking思维 about it.
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一次是不准做,
另一次是连想都不准想。
(笑声)
01:54
(Laughter笑声)
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01:56
So how do we reconcile调和
what is universally举世 forbidden被禁止,
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那我们究竟如何处理出轨,
02:00
yet然而 universally举世 practiced?
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这一屡禁不止的现象呢?
02:05
Now, throughout始终 history历史, men男人
practically几乎 had a license执照 to cheat作弊
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自古以来,男人出轨是被允许的,
02:10
with little consequence后果,
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几乎不用承担什么后果,
02:12
and supported支持的 by a host主办
of biological生物 and evolutionary发展的 theories理论
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甚至还有生物理论和进化理论
02:16
that justified有理 their need to roam漫游,
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来为他们撑腰,
02:19
so the double standard标准
is as old as adultery通奸 itself本身.
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这一双重标准自婚外情
诞生之日起就存在了。
02:24
But who knows知道 what's really going on
under the sheets床单 there, right?
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但在床上到底发生了什么,
其实谁也不清楚,对吧?
02:29
Because when it comes to sex性别,
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因为一谈到性,
男人可以夸夸奇谈,自吹自擂,
02:31
the pressure压力 for men男人
is to boast and to exaggerate夸大,
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02:35
but the pressure压力 for women妇女
is to hide隐藏, minimize最小化 and deny拒绝,
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而女人却要遮遮掩掩。
02:41
which哪一个 isn't surprising奇怪 when you consider考虑
that there are still nine countries国家
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难以置信的是,
如今仍有9个国家的女性
02:45
where women妇女 can be killed杀害 for straying走失.
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会因出轨而被处死。
02:49
Now, monogamy一夫一妻制 used to be
one person for life.
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一夫一妻制,
曾经指的是“一辈子一个”,
02:54
Today今天, monogamy一夫一妻制 is one person at a time.
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而现在指的是“每次一个”。
02:58
(Laughter笑声)
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(笑声)
(掌声)
03:00
(Applause掌声)
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03:04
I mean, many许多 of you probably大概 have said,
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我想,在座有很多人可能说过,
03:06
"I am monogamous一夫一妻制 in all my relationships关系."
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“我在每段关系里都遵守一夫一妻制”。
03:09
(Laughter笑声)
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(笑声)
03:12
We used to marry结婚,
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过去我们先结婚,
03:14
and had sex性别 for the first time.
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再初尝禁果。
03:16
But now we marry结婚,
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而现在,我们先结婚,
03:18
and we stop having sex性别 with others其他.
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然后停止与别人发生关系。
03:21
The fact事实 is that monogamy一夫一妻制
had nothing to do with love.
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实际上一夫一妻制已经与爱情无关。
03:26
Men男人 relied on women's女士的 fidelity保真度
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男人根据女人是否忠诚,
03:28
in order订购 to know whose谁的 children孩子 these are,
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来判断孩子是不是自己的,
03:31
and who gets得到 the cows奶牛 when I die.
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进而决定遗产归谁。
03:36
Now, everyone大家 wants to know
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大家都想知道,
03:38
what percentage百分比 of people cheat作弊.
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出轨的人到底占多少百分比。
03:40
I've been asked that question
since以来 I arrived到达 at this conference会议.
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从我到达现场,
就不停有人问这个问题。
(笑声)
03:43
(Laughter笑声)
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这跟你们也有关系。
03:46
It applies适用 to you.
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03:48
But the definition定义 of infidelity不忠
keeps保持 on expanding扩大:
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因为出轨的含义在不断扩大:
03:52
sexting发色情短信, watching观看 pornA片, staying
secretly偷偷 active活性 on dating约会 apps应用.
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发色情短信,看黄片,
在约会软件上玩暧昧。
03:58
So because there is no
universally举世 agreed-upon同意;打勾 definition定义
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正因为缺乏一个统一的定义,
04:02
of what even constitutes构成 an infidelity不忠,
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到底什么才算出轨,
04:05
estimates估计 vary变化 widely广泛,
from 26 percent百分 to 75 percent百分.
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因此这个百分比范围很广,
从26%到75%。
04:12
But on top最佳 of it, we are
walking步行 contradictions矛盾.
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但与此相矛盾的是,
04:16
So 95 percent百分 of us will say
that it is terribly可怕 wrong错误
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有95%的人认为,
另一半试图掩盖
04:19
for our partner伙伴 to lie谎言
about having an affair事务,
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出轨的事实是不可饶恕的,
04:22
but just about the same相同
amount of us will say
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但差不多同样多的人也会说:
04:25
that that's exactly究竟 what we
would do if we were having one.
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如果我出轨的话肯定也不会声张。
04:28
(Laughter笑声)
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(笑声)
04:31
Now, I like this definition定义
of an affair事务 --
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我倾向于这样来定义婚外情,
04:35
it brings带来 together一起 the three key elements分子:
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它包含三个要素:
04:39
a secretive隐秘 relationship关系,
which哪一个 is the core核心 structure结构体 of an affair事务;
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首先是遮遮掩掩的关系,
这是婚外情的核心;
04:45
an emotional情绪化 connection连接
to one degree or another另一个;
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二是拥有某种程度上的感情联系;
04:49
and a sexual有性 alchemy炼金术.
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三是性幻想。
04:52
And alchemy炼金术 is the key word here,
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性吸引是这里的关键词,
04:55
because the erotic好色之徒 frisson战栗 is such这样 that
the kiss that you only imagine想像 giving,
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对于性高潮而言,即便是想象出来的亲吻,
05:02
can be as powerful强大 and as enchanting妖娆
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也和数小时的翻云覆雨,
05:05
as hours小时 of actual实际 lovemaking做爱.
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拥有同样的魔力。
05:09
As Marcel马塞尔 Proust普鲁斯特 said,
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如马塞尔·普鲁斯特所言,
05:11
it's our imagination想像力 that is responsible主管
for love, not the other person.
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“我们的爱源自想象,而非源自对方。”
05:17
So it's never been easier更轻松 to cheat作弊,
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因此出轨是很容易的,
05:21
and it's never been more
difficult to keep a secret秘密.
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但保守出轨的秘密却难上加难。
05:25
And never has infidelity不忠 exacted付出
such这样 a psychological心理 toll收费.
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因为(出轨者)要承受巨大的心理压力。
05:31
When marriage婚姻 was an economic经济 enterprise企业,
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如果婚姻是一家企业,
05:35
infidelity不忠 threatened受威胁
our economic经济 security安全.
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那婚外情威胁它的经济安全。
05:39
But now that marriage婚姻
is a romantic浪漫 arrangement安排,
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如果婚姻是一种浪漫协议,
05:41
infidelity不忠 threatens威胁
our emotional情绪化 security安全.
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那婚外情威胁我们的情感安全。
05:45
Ironically讽刺地, we used to turn to adultery通奸 --
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讽刺的是,我们曾经对婚外情充满幻想,
05:50
that was the space空间 where
we sought追捧 pure love.
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认为它是孕育真爱之地。
而现在我们从婚姻中寻找爱情,
05:53
But now that we seek寻求 love in marriage婚姻,
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05:55
adultery通奸 destroys破阵 it.
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而婚外情则将其摧毁。
05:58
Now, there are three ways方法 that I think
infidelity不忠 hurts伤害 differently不同 today今天.
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我认为,如今的婚外情有三大罪状。
06:05
We have a romantic浪漫 ideal理想
in which哪一个 we turn to one person
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我们浪漫地认为,会有那么一个人,
06:11
to fulfill履行 an endless无穷 list名单 of needs需求:
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能满足我们所有的需求:
06:14
to be my greatest最大 lover情人, my best最好 friend朋友,
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是我最棒的情人,最好的朋友,
06:18
the best最好 parent, my trusted信任 confidant知己,
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最好的父母,最信任的知己,
06:21
my emotional情绪化 companion伴侣,
my intellectual知识分子 equal等于.
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是情感伴侣,又志趣相投。
06:25
And I am it: I'm chosen选择, I'm unique独特,
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而我自己则符合上述所有条件:
我万里挑一,我独一无二,
06:29
I'm indispensable必不可少, I'm irreplaceable不可替代,
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我不可或缺,我无法取代,
06:33
I'm the one.
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我就是真命天子(女)。
06:35
And infidelity不忠 tells告诉 me I'm not.
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但婚外情告诉我,并不是那么回事。
06:39
It is the ultimate最终 betrayal辜负.
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这是一种终极背叛。
06:41
Infidelity不忠 shatters碎裂
the grand盛大 ambition志向 of love.
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出轨粉碎了我们对爱情的憧憬。
06:46
But if throughout始终 history历史,
infidelity不忠 has always been painful痛苦,
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如果回顾历史,
婚外情从来都是充满痛苦的,
06:51
today今天 it is often经常 traumatic创伤,
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而在今天更是有过之而不及,
06:53
because it threatens威胁 our sense of self.
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因为它威胁了我们的自我意识。
06:57
So my patient患者 Fernando费尔南多, he's plagued困扰.
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我的一个病人费尔南多,就深受其害。
06:59
He goes on: "I thought I knew知道 my life.
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他说:“我曾以为我了解自己的生活,
07:02
I thought I knew知道 who you were,
who we were as a couple一对, who I was.
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我曾以为我了解你,
了解我们的婚姻,了解我自己。
07:06
Now, I question everything."
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但现在,我对这一切都产生了怀疑。”
07:09
Infidelity不忠 -- a violation违反 of trust相信,
a crisis危机 of identity身分.
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婚外情是对信任的践踏,
对自我认同的摧毁。
07:14
"Can I ever trust相信 you again?" he asks.
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“我还能再相信你吗?”他问。
“我还能相信任何人吗?”
07:17
"Can I ever trust相信 anyone任何人 again?"
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07:20
And this is also what my patient患者
Heather石南属 is telling告诉 me,
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我的另一个病人希瑟也有这种想法,
07:23
when she's talking to me
about her story故事 with Nick缺口.
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她跟我讲了她和尼克的故事。
07:26
Married已婚, two kids孩子.
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他们结婚了,有两个孩子。
07:27
Nick缺口 just left on a business商业 trip,
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尼克出差刚走,
07:30
and Heather石南属 is playing播放
on his iPadiPad的 with the boys男孩,
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希瑟和孩子一起在玩尼克的iPad,
07:34
when she sees看到 a message信息
appear出现 on the screen屏幕:
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然后屏幕上出现了一条信息:
07:37
"Can't wait to see you."
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“我等不及想见你。”
07:39
Strange奇怪, she thinks,
we just saw each other.
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真奇怪,希瑟想,我们不是刚见过吗?
07:42
And then another另一个 message信息:
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然后又来了一条:
07:44
"Can't wait to hold保持 you in my arms武器."
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“真想马上拥抱你。”
07:47
And Heather石南属 realizes实现
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这时希瑟意识到,
07:50
these are not for her.
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这些信息不是发给自己的。
07:52
She also tells告诉 me
that her father父亲 had affairs事务,
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希瑟说他父亲也有婚外情,
07:55
but her mother母亲, she found发现
one little receipt收据 in the pocket口袋,
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但她母亲只是在口袋里
发现了一张收据,
在领子上发现了一点口红印。
07:59
and a little bit of lipstick口红
on the collar.
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08:03
Heather石南属, she goes digging挖掘,
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希瑟继续翻看着,
08:06
and she finds认定 hundreds数以百计 of messages消息,
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发现了上百条信息,
08:09
and photos相片 exchanged交换
and desires欲望 expressed表达.
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里面有互换的照片,
以及各种互诉衷肠。
08:13
The vivid生动 details细节
of Nick's尼克 two-year两年 affair事务
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尼克出轨两年的确凿证据
08:16
unfold展开 in front面前 of her in real真实 time,
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在她面前赤裸裸地呈现出来。
08:19
And it made制作 me think:
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我不禁在想:
08:21
Affairs事务 in the digital数字 age年龄
are death死亡 by a thousand cuts削减.
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数字时代的出轨真是能让人
感到被千刀万剐,生不如死。
08:27
But then we have another另一个 paradox悖论
that we're dealing交易 with these days.
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但是我们又发现了另外一个矛盾。
08:31
Because of this romantic浪漫 ideal理想,
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因为前面说到的浪漫遐想,
08:33
we are relying依托 on our partner's伙伴
fidelity保真度 with a unique独特 fervor热情.
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我们极度依赖自己伴侣的忠诚。
08:38
But we also have never
been more inclined to stray流浪,
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但同时,我们比以前也更容易出轨,
08:42
and not because we have new desires欲望 today今天,
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并不是因为我们有了新的欲望,
08:45
but because we live生活 in an era时代
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而是我们现在所处的时代,
08:47
where we feel that we are
entitled标题 to pursue追求 our desires欲望,
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让我们觉得有权利去追求自己的欲望,
08:50
because this is the culture文化
where I deserve值得 to be happy快乐.
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这就是我们的文化特点:我有权快乐。
08:55
And if we used to divorce离婚
because we were unhappy不快乐,
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如果过去离婚是因为我们不快乐,
08:59
today今天 we divorce离婚
because we could be happier幸福.
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那现在离婚是因为我们可以更快乐。
09:03
And if divorce离婚 carried携带的 all the shame耻辱,
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如果在过去,离婚是不光彩的,
09:06
today今天, choosing选择 to stay when you can leave离开
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那今天,能离婚而不离婚,
09:10
is the new shame耻辱.
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才是不光彩。
09:12
So Heather石南属, she can't talk to her friends朋友
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所以希瑟,不敢告诉自己的朋友,
09:15
because she's afraid害怕 that they
will judge法官 her for still loving爱心 Nick缺口,
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她害怕朋友们责怪她还爱着尼克,
09:18
and everywhere到处 she turns,
she gets得到 the same相同 advice忠告:
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无论她找谁倾诉,大家都劝她:
09:21
Leave离开 him. Throw the dog on the curb抑制.
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离开他吧,大家各走各路。
09:25
And if the situation情况 were reversed反向的,
Nick缺口 would be in the same相同 situation情况.
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如果出轨的是希瑟,
相信尼克的处境也会一样。
09:31
Staying入住 is the new shame耻辱.
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维持婚姻成了不光彩的事。
09:35
So if we can divorce离婚,
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那如果我们能离婚,
09:38
why do we still have affairs事务?
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那为什么还要出轨呢?
09:41
Now, the typical典型 assumption假设
is that if someone有人 cheats秘籍,
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一种典型的观点是,如果你出轨,
09:46
either there's something wrong错误
in your relationship关系 or wrong错误 with you.
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要么是婚姻出了毛病,
要么是你自己出了毛病。
09:51
But millions百万 of people
can't all be pathological病态的.
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但是不可能成千上万的人
全都有毛病吧。
09:56
The logic逻辑 goes like this: If you
have everything you need at home,
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这一观点的逻辑是这样的:
如果你的家庭完美无缺,
10:00
then there is no need
to go looking elsewhere别处,
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那就没必要出轨了,
10:03
assuming假设 that there is such这样
a thing as a perfect完善 marriage婚姻
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假设完美婚姻确实存在,
10:07
that will inoculate接种 us against反对 wanderlust.
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能治好我们爱出轨的毛病。
10:11
But what if passion
has a finite有限 shelf life?
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但如果激情无法持久呢?
10:15
What if there are things
that even a good relationship关系
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如果有些东西,
即使在完美的婚姻中,
10:19
can never provide提供?
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也无法找到呢?
10:22
If even happy快乐 people cheat作弊,
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如果幸福的人也出轨呢?
10:25
what is it about?
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这又是怎么回事?
10:28
The vast广大 majority多数 of people
that I actually其实 work with
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我接触和研究过的绝大多数人,
10:31
are not at all chronic慢性 philanderers花花公子.
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并不全都是积习难改的好色之徒。
10:34
They are often经常 people who are
deeply monogamous一夫一妻制 in their beliefs信仰,
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从观念上,他们通常赞同一夫一妻制,
10:38
and at least最小 for their partner伙伴.
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至少对自己的另一半是如此。
10:40
But they find themselves他们自己 in a conflict冲突
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但他们往往处于一种矛盾之中,
10:43
between之间 their values and their behavior行为.
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就是观念和做法不一样。
10:47
They often经常 are people who have
actually其实 been faithful可信 for decades几十年,
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他们通常忠诚了几十年,
10:51
but one day they cross交叉 a line线
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但突然有天就跨过了红线,
10:54
that they never thought they would cross交叉,
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冒着失去一切的风险,
10:57
and at the risk风险 of losing失去 everything.
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这在之前他们连想都不敢想。
11:00
But for a glimmer微光 of what?
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但换来的是什么呢?
11:03
Affairs事务 are an act法案 of betrayal辜负,
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婚外情是一种背叛行为,
11:06
and they are also an expression表达
of longing渴望 and loss失利.
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同时也是对于渴望和失去的一种表达。
11:10
At the heart of an affair事务,
you will often经常 find
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透过出轨的表象,我们经常能看到
11:14
a longing渴望 and a yearning怀念
for an emotional情绪化 connection连接,
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一种寻求情感联系的渴望,
11:18
for novelty新奇, for freedom自由,
for autonomy自治, for sexual有性 intensity强度,
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追求新奇、自由、自立和性快感,
11:24
a wish希望 to recapture夺回
lost丢失 parts部分 of ourselves我们自己
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渴望找回失去的自我,
11:28
or an attempt尝试 to bring带来 back
vitality活力 in the face面对 of loss失利 and tragedy悲剧.
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或者是试图走出失意和悲伤。
11:34
I'm thinking思维 about
another另一个 patient患者 of mine, Priya普里亚,
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我想起了我的另一个病人,普莉娅,
11:37
who is blissfully幸福 married已婚,
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她婚姻美满,
11:40
loves her husband丈夫,
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深爱着自己的丈夫,
11:41
and would never want to hurt伤害 the man.
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从未想过要伤害他。
11:44
But she also tells告诉 me
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但她跟我说,
11:46
that she's always doneDONE
what was expected预期 of her:
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她总是在扮演别人期望的那个角色:
11:50
good girl女孩, good wife妻子, good mother母亲,
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好女孩,好妻子,好母亲,
11:53
taking服用 care关心 of her immigrant移民 parents父母.
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照顾自己移民过来的父母。
11:56
Priya普里亚, she fell下跌 for the arborist树艺
who removed去除 the tree from her yard
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但在桑迪飓风来袭之后,
普莉娅爱上了那个帮她清理院子中
12:01
after Hurricane飓风 Sandy.
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残破树木的工人。
12:03
And with his truck卡车 and his tattoos纹身,
he's quite相当 the opposite对面 of her.
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他开着卡车,纹着纹身,
跟她完全是两个世界的人。
12:09
But at 47, Priya's普里亚的 affair事务 is about
the adolescence青春期 that she never had.
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尽管出轨时已经47岁,
但普莉娅找回了从未有过的青春。
12:15
And her story故事 highlights强调 for me
that when we seek寻求 the gaze凝视 of another另一个,
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她的故事告诉我,
当我们寻找情人的时候,
12:21
it isn't always our partner伙伴
that we are turning车削 away from,
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并不一定是想逃离现在的伴侣,
12:25
but the person that
we have ourselves我们自己 become成为.
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而是想逃离那个曾经的自己。
12:29
And it isn't so much that we're
looking for another另一个 person,
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与其说我们在寻找那么一个人,
12:33
as much as we are
looking for another另一个 self.
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不如说我们在寻找另一个自己。
12:39
Now, all over the world世界,
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我走遍世界,
12:40
there is one word that people
who have affairs事务 always tell me.
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遇到很多有婚外情的人,
他们总是跟我说一个词,
12:45
They feel alive.
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他们觉得自己“活着”。
12:48
And they often经常 will tell me
stories故事 of recent最近 losses损失 --
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紧接着他们会告诉我,
自己最近失去了什么人。
12:52
of a parent who died死亡,
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比如父母去世,
12:54
and a friend朋友 that went too soon不久,
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2200
朋友出了意外,
12:56
and bad news新闻 at the doctor医生.
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谁查出来得了绝症。
12:59
Death死亡 and mortality死亡 often经常 live生活
in the shadow阴影 of an affair事务,
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婚外情常常同死亡
和人生苦短联系在一起,
13:04
because they raise提高 these questions问题.
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因为他们经常会问,
13:06
Is this it? Is there more?
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就这样了吗?会不会还有其他人出现?
13:09
Am I going on for another另一个
25 years年份 like this?
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我是不是还要这么过25年?
13:13
Will I ever feel that thing again?
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我还能不能感受到爱?
13:18
And it has led me to think
that perhaps也许 these questions问题
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这不禁让我思考,
也许正是这些问题,
13:22
are the ones那些 that propel推进
people to cross交叉 the line线,
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推动他们跨过了红线,
13:25
and that some affairs事务 are
an attempt尝试 to beat击败 back deadnessdeadness,
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有些人想通过婚外情来重拾信心,
13:29
in an antidote解药 to death死亡.
216
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对抗情感的死亡。
13:33
And contrary相反 to what you may可能 think,
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可能与你们想的恰恰相反,
13:36
affairs事务 are way less about sex性别,
and a lot more about desire欲望:
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婚外情跟性的关系更小,
却与渴望密切相关:
13:41
desire欲望 for attention注意,
desire欲望 to feel special特别,
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渴望被关注,渴望重拾信心,
13:45
desire欲望 to feel important重要.
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渴望被人需要。
13:48
And the very structure结构体 of an affair事务,
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婚外情的显著特点,
13:51
the fact事实 that you can
never have your lover情人,
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就是你无法完全拥有你的情人,
13:53
keeps保持 you wanting希望.
223
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这让你欲罢不能。
13:54
That in itself本身 is a desire欲望 machine,
224
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就像有一台欲望机器在不断驱动你,
13:57
because the incompleteness不完备, the ambiguity歧义,
225
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种种不完整,种种暧昧不清,
14:00
keeps保持 you wanting希望
that which哪一个 you can't have.
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2775
让你对得不到的东西念念不忘。
14:05
Now some of you probably大概 think
227
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你们中一些人可能会想,
14:07
that affairs事务 don't happen发生
in open打开 relationships关系,
228
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是不是在开放的关系中
婚外情就不会发生了,
14:10
but they do.
229
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并不是这样。
14:12
First of all, the conversation会话
about monogamy一夫一妻制 is not the same相同
230
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3130
首先,关于一夫一妻制的讨论,
14:15
as the conversation会话 about infidelity不忠.
231
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2181
与关于不忠的讨论并不一样。
14:18
But the fact事实 is that it seems似乎
that even when we have
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但事实是,即使我们可以随心所欲地
14:21
the freedom自由 to have other sexual有性 partners伙伴,
233
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拥有其他性伴侣,
14:24
we still seem似乎 to be lured引诱
by the power功率 of the forbidden被禁止,
234
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我们还是无法抗拒偷尝禁果的诱惑,
14:28
that if we do that which哪一个
we are not supposed应该 to do,
235
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3487
如果我们做了被禁止的事,
14:32
then we feel like we are really
doing what we want to.
236
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2799
反倒会觉得自己在做真正想做的事。
14:37
And I've also told
quite相当 a few少数 of my patients耐心
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3604
我告诉过我的许多病人,
14:40
that if they could bring带来
into their relationships关系
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如果他们能将自己投入婚外情的
14:45
one tenth第十 of the boldness魄力,
the imagination想像力 and the verve气魄
239
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3631
勇气、想象力和热情,拿出十分之一
14:49
that they put into their affairs事务,
240
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给自己的婚姻,
14:50
they probably大概 would never need to see me.
241
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也许他们就不用来找我了。
14:53
(Laughter笑声)
242
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2000
(笑声)
14:56
So how do we heal愈合 from an affair事务?
243
884362
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那么我们该如何治疗
因婚外情所受的创伤?
15:00
Desire欲望 runs运行 deep.
244
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1919
欲望根深蒂固,
15:02
Betrayal辜负 runs运行 deep.
245
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1871
背叛刻骨铭心。
15:05
But it can be healed愈合.
246
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但伤痛是可以治愈的。
15:07
And some affairs事务 are death死亡 knellsknells
247
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有些婚外情只不过是压死婚姻的
最后一根稻草。
15:10
for relationships关系 that were
already已经 dying垂死 on the vine藤蔓.
248
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2738
15:14
But others其他 will jolt颠簸 us
into new possibilities可能性.
249
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而另一些却让婚姻有了新的可能。
15:17
The fact事实 is, the majority多数 of couples情侣
250
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1983
实际上,大部分经历了
15:19
who have experienced有经验的
affairs事务 stay together一起.
251
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2214
婚外情的夫妻最后仍然在一起。
15:22
But some of them will merely仅仅 survive生存,
252
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2633
只不过有的人精疲力尽,
15:25
and others其他 will actually其实 be able能够
to turn a crisis危机 into an opportunity机会.
253
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4704
有的人则将危机转化为机遇。
15:30
They'll他们会 be able能够 to turn this
into a generative生成的 experience经验.
254
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3643
他们善于将其转化为一场经历。
实际上我甚至认为
被欺骗的一方更是如此,
15:34
And I'm actually其实 thinking思维 even
more so for the deceived被骗 partner伙伴,
255
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3714
15:38
who will often经常 say,
256
926222
1336
他们经常说,
15:39
"You think I didn't want more?
257
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1807
“你以为我就不想得到更多吗?
15:41
But I'm not the one who did it."
258
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1842
但我并没有踏出这一步。”
15:43
But now that the affair事务 is exposed裸露,
259
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2142
一旦婚外情暴露,
15:46
they, too, get to claim要求 more,
260
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2134
他们也会提出更多要求,
15:48
and they no longer have
to uphold坚持 the status状态 quo现状
261
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2642
不再继续委曲求全,
15:50
that may可能 not have been working加工
for them that well, either.
262
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2914
因为委曲求全的结果并不理想。
15:56
I've noticed注意到 that a lot of couples情侣,
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2889
我注意到,很多夫妻
15:59
in the immediate即时 aftermath后果 of an affair事务,
264
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2141
在婚外情曝光之后,
16:01
because of this new disorder紊乱
that may可能 actually其实 lead to a new order订购,
265
949251
4336
由于局面混乱,
可能会产生新的家庭秩序,
16:05
will have depths深处 of conversations对话
with honesty诚实 and openness透明度
266
953587
3582
他们往往会进行开诚布公的深入交流,
16:09
that they haven't没有 had in decades几十年.
267
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1655
这种交流可能几十年都未曾有过。
16:11
And, partners伙伴 who were
sexually indifferent冷漠
268
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2937
之前毫无“性致”的夫妻,
16:14
find themselves他们自己 suddenly突然
so lustfully贪婪 voracious贪心,
269
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2599
可能突然变得“性致”勃勃,
16:17
they don't know where it's coming未来 from.
270
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2535
而他们完全搞不懂这是为什么。
16:20
Something about the fear恐惧
of loss失利 will rekindle重燃 desire欲望,
271
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3953
对于失去的恐惧可能会重燃激情,
16:24
and make way for an entirely完全
new kind of truth真相.
272
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3319
引导你通往全新的真实之路。
16:30
So when an affair事务 is exposed裸露,
273
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2871
那么当婚外情曝光之后,
16:33
what are some of the specific具体 things
that couples情侣 can do?
274
981004
3161
作为夫妻的当事人具体应该怎么办呢?
16:38
We know from trauma外伤 that healing复原 begins开始
275
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4071
我们知道要想治疗创伤,
16:42
when the perpetrator肇事者
acknowledges承认 their wrongdoing坏事.
276
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3992
犯错者首先应该承认错误。
16:47
So for the partner伙伴 who had the affair事务,
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对于出轨的那一方,
16:51
for Nick缺口,
278
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比如说尼克,
16:52
one thing is to end结束 the affair事务,
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首先应该停止婚外情,
16:54
but the other is the essential必要,
important重要 act法案 of expressing表达
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但更重要的是要向妻子
16:59
guilt有罪 and remorse悔恨 for hurting伤害 his wife妻子.
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表达自己对伤害她的愧疚和歉意。
17:02
But the truth真相 is
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然而事实上,
17:04
that I have noticed注意到 that quite相当 a lot
of people who have affairs事务
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我注意到,很多出轨的人,
17:07
may可能 feel terribly可怕 guilty有罪
for hurting伤害 their partner伙伴,
284
1015365
3098
也许对于伤害他们的另一半怀有愧疚,
17:10
but they don't feel guilty有罪
for the experience经验 of the affair事务 itself本身.
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但对于出轨行为本身毫无悔意。
17:14
And that distinction分别 is important重要.
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1841
这一差别非常重要。
17:17
And Nick缺口, he needs需求 to hold保持
vigil守夜 for the relationship关系.
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对尼克来说,他需要维持这段婚姻。
17:21
He needs需求 to become成为, for a while,
the protector保护者 of the boundaries边界.
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至少在一段时间内,
他要成为婚姻的保卫者。
17:24
It's his responsibility责任 to bring带来 it up,
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这是尼克的责任,
17:26
because if he thinks about it,
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1980
因为他明白只有这样,
17:28
he can relieve缓解 Heather石南属 from the obsession困扰,
291
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3010
他才能帮希瑟走出阴影,
17:31
and from having to make sure
that the affair事务 isn't forgotten忘记了,
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让希瑟不必再拿出轨说事儿,
17:35
and that in itself本身
begins开始 to restore恢复 trust相信.
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这样信任才能慢慢恢复。
17:39
But for Heather石南属,
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但对希瑟而言,
17:41
or deceived被骗 partners伙伴,
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1745
或者说被伤害的一方而言,
17:43
it is essential必要 to do things
that bring带来 back a sense of self-worth自我价值,
296
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5338
去做一些重拾自我价值的
事情十分必要,
17:48
to surround环绕 oneself自己 with love
and with friends朋友 and activities活动
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3733
比如同亲朋好友聚会,
感受他们的爱意,
17:52
that give back joy喜悦
and meaning含义 and identity身分.
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多参加快乐有意义的活动,找回自我。
17:55
But even more important重要,
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但更重要的是,
17:57
is to curb抑制 the curiosity好奇心
to mine for the sordid污秽 details细节 --
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4903
不要去纠结出轨的细节:
18:02
Where were you? Where did you do it?
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你们都去过哪里?在哪里做过?
18:04
How often经常? Is she better
than me in bed? --
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多久见一次面?她在床上是不是比我棒?
18:07
questions问题 that only inflict造成 more pain疼痛,
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2484
这些问题只会带来更多痛苦,
18:10
and keep you awake苏醒 at night.
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让你彻夜难眠。
18:12
And instead代替, switch开关 to what I call
the investigative研究 questions问题,
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取而代之的,要问一些深层次的问题,
18:17
the ones那些 that mine
the meaning含义 and the motives动机 --
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3300
更关注行为的意义和动机:
18:20
What did this affair事务 mean for you?
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2473
这场婚外情对你意味着什么?
18:23
What were you able能够 to express表现
or experience经验 there
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2772
他(她)能给你哪些体会和经历
18:25
that you could no longer do with me?
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2255
是在我这儿没法得到的?
18:28
What was it like for you
when you came来了 home?
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3032
你每次回到家有什么感觉?
18:31
What is it about us that you value?
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3399
对于我们的关系,
你最珍视的是什么?
18:34
Are you pleased满意 this is over?
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2152
结束婚外情你觉得开心吗?
18:38
Every一切 affair事务 will redefine重新定义 a relationship关系,
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4321
每一场婚外情都会重新定义一段婚姻,
18:42
and every一切 couple一对 will determine确定
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2882
每一对夫妻都将经历
18:45
what the legacy遗产 of the affair事务 will be.
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2535
婚外情给他们带来的影响。
18:49
But affairs事务 are here to stay,
and they're not going away.
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3762
但婚外情不会消失,
它将一直存在。
18:54
And the dilemmas困境 of love and desire欲望,
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2643
关于爱和欲望的困境,
18:56
they don't yield产量 just simple简单 answers答案
of black黑色 and white白色 and good and bad,
318
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5970
不能简单地划分黑白和对错,
19:02
and victim受害者 and perpetrator肇事者.
319
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1974
区分受害者和罪犯。
19:06
Betrayal辜负 in a relationship关系
comes in many许多 forms形式.
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1134221
4075
一段婚姻中的背叛可以有很多种形式。
19:10
There are many许多 ways方法
that we betray背叛 our partner伙伴:
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2354
我们背叛伴侣的方式很多:
19:12
with contempt鄙视, with neglect忽略,
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2169
藐视,忽视,
19:14
with indifference漠不关心, with violence暴力.
323
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2473
冷漠,暴力。
19:17
Sexual有性 betrayal辜负 is only
one way to hurt伤害 a partner伙伴.
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3438
(肉体)出轨只是伤害伴侣的方式之一。
19:21
In other words, the victim受害者 of an affair事务
325
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2604
换句话说,婚外情的受害者
19:24
is not always the victim受害者 of the marriage婚姻.
326
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2942
并不一定是婚姻的受害者。
19:29
Now, you've listened听了 to me,
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听我说了这么多,
19:32
and I know what you're thinking思维:
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2375
我知道你们在想什么:
19:34
She has a French法国 accent口音,
she must必须 be pro-affair亲外遇.
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3774
她有法国口音,她肯定是个出轨老手。
19:38
(Laughter笑声)
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3302
(笑声)
19:43
So, you're wrong错误.
331
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1504
但是,你们错了。
19:45
I am not French法国.
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1555
我不是法国人。
19:47
(Laughter笑声)
333
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2453
(笑声)
19:50
(Applause掌声)
334
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2880
(掌声)
19:53
And I'm not pro-affair亲外遇.
335
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1667
我也不是出轨老手。
19:56
But because I think that good
can come out of an affair事务,
336
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4384
但是因为我经常说,
婚外情也有好的方面,
20:01
I have often经常 been asked
this very strange奇怪 question:
337
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3331
所以经常会有人问我一个奇怪的问题:
20:04
Would I ever recommend推荐 it?
338
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1737
你有建议过别人出轨吗?
20:07
Now, I would no more
recommend推荐 you have an affair事务
339
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我当然不建议你们出轨,
20:10
than I would recommend推荐 you have cancer癌症,
340
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2544
就像我不建议你们得癌症一样,
20:13
and yet然而 we know that people
who have been ill生病
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2703
尽管我们知道,有些患绝症的人
20:15
often经常 talk about how their illness疾病
has yielded产生 them a new perspective透视.
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1203752
4198
经常说疾病让他们
对世界有了新的看法。
20:20
The main主要 question that I've been asked
since以来 I arrived到达 at this conference会议
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1208569
3337
自从我到达会场,
说我要谈婚外情的问题,
20:23
when I said I would talk
about infidelity不忠 is, for or against反对?
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1211906
3511
大家都问我,
那你到底是赞成还是反对?
20:28
I said, "Yes."
345
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1261
我说,“是的。”(既赞成又反对)
20:30
(Laughter笑声)
346
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2421
(笑声)
20:33
I look at affairs事务 from a dual perspective透视:
347
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3637
我将婚外情一分为二来看:
20:37
hurt伤害 and betrayal辜负 on one side,
348
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3648
一方面是伤害和背叛,
20:41
growth发展 and self-discovery自我发现 on the other --
349
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另一方面是成长和自我发现。
20:44
what it did to you,
and what it meant意味着 for me.
350
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3096
婚外情给你带来了什么,
对我又意味着什么。
20:48
And so when a couple一对 comes to me
in the aftermath后果 of an affair事务
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4668
当婚外情被发现,
20:53
that has been revealed透露,
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1803
夫妻俩来找我,
20:55
I will often经常 tell them this:
353
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2328
我经常会告诉他们:
20:57
Today今天 in the West西,
354
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2405
今天在西方社会,
20:59
most of us are going to have
two or three relationships关系
355
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4879
大部分人会有2、3段恋情,
21:04
or marriages婚姻,
356
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1699
或者婚姻,
21:06
and some of us are going
to do it with the same相同 person.
357
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其中有些人是跟同一个人一起经历的。
21:10
Your first marriage婚姻 is over.
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你的第一段婚姻结束了,
21:13
Would you like to create创建
a second第二 one together一起?
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2841
你还愿意跟你的另一半
重新开始第二段吗?
21:17
Thank you.
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谢谢大家。
21:18
(Applause掌声)
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6634
(掌声)
Translated by fuyu you
Reviewed by Yuanqing Edberg

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ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Esther Perel - Relationship therapist
Psychotherapist Esther Perel is changing the conversation on what it means to be in love and have a fulfilling sex life.

Why you should listen

For the first time in human history, couples aren’t having sex just to have kids; there’s room for sustained desire and long-term sexual relationships. But how? Perel, a licensed marriage and family therapist with a practice in New York, travels the world to help people answer this question. For her research she works across cultures and is fluent in nine languages. She coaches, consults and speaks regularly on erotic intelligence, trauma, sexual honesty and conflict resolution. She is the author of Mating in Captivity: Reconciling the Erotic and the Domestic. Her latest work focuses on infidelity: what it is, why happy people do it and how couples can recover from it. She aims to locate this very personal experience within a larger cultural context.

More profile about the speaker
Esther Perel | Speaker | TED.com