TED2015
Esther Perel: Rethinking infidelity ... a talk for anyone who has ever loved
艾絲特•佩雷爾: 重新思考外遇... 給所有愛過的人
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外遇是終極的背叛。只有這個選擇嗎？身為情侶心理治療師的艾絲特•佩雷爾探討人為何會外遇，並分析它讓人如此讓人受傷的原因：外遇讓我們在情緒上對自己缺乏安全感。在外遇中，她看到其它可能－ 一種表達渴望和失落的方法。曾經外遇、遭外遇背叛，或僅僅是想用一個新框架來思考人際關係的人，一定要點進來看看。
Esther Perel - Relationship therapist
Psychotherapist Esther Perel is changing the conversation on what it means to be in love and have a fulfilling sex life. Full bio
Psychotherapist Esther Perel is changing the conversation on what it means to be in love and have a fulfilling sex life. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:12
Why do we cheat?
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為什麼我們會出軌？
00:16
And why do happy people cheat?
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為何快樂的人會外遇？
00:20
And when we say "infidelity,"
what exactly do we mean?
what exactly do we mean?
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談到「不貞」時，我們真正指的是什麼？
00:26
Is it a hookup, a love story,
paid sex, a chat room,
paid sex, a chat room,
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是一次邂逅，一場戀愛，
性交易，聊天室聊天，
性交易，聊天室聊天，
00:32
a massage with a happy ending?
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又或者是按摩店的終極服務？
00:36
Why do we think that men cheat
out of boredom and fear of intimacy,
out of boredom and fear of intimacy,
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為何我們覺得男人出軌的原因
是無聊和恐懼親密，
是無聊和恐懼親密，
00:41
but women cheat out of loneliness
and hunger for intimacy?
and hunger for intimacy?
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而女人卻是寂寞難耐和急需親密？
00:47
And is an affair always
the end of a relationship?
the end of a relationship?
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出軌必須是一段關係的終結者嗎？
00:53
For the past 10 years,
I have traveled the globe
I have traveled the globe
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過去十年，我在各處旅行
00:56
and worked extensively
with hundreds of couples
with hundreds of couples
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與各地數百對的夫妻一同合作。
00:59
who have been shattered by infidelity.
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婚姻的不貞使他們的生活破碎。
01:02
There is one simple act of transgression
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出軌是一個簡單的犯罪行為，
01:06
that can rob a couple
of their relationship,
of their relationship,
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它會破壞兩人的關係。，
01:11
their happiness and their
very identity: an affair.
very identity: an affair.
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幸福和自我認同。
01:15
And yet, this extremely common
act is so poorly understood.
act is so poorly understood.
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然而，我們對這個普遍的行為卻所知甚少
01:22
So this talk is for anyone
who has ever loved.
who has ever loved.
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所以這次演講是給所有愛過的人。
01:29
Adultery has existed
since marriage was invented,
since marriage was invented,
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出軌的歷史和婚姻的歷史一樣長，
01:33
and so, too, the taboo against it.
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苛責通姦的戒律也是。
01:37
In fact, infidelity has a tenacity
that marriage can only envy,
that marriage can only envy,
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事實上，婚外情的韌性連婚姻都望塵莫及，
01:42
so much so, that this is
the only commandment
the only commandment
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比如說，它甚至列為聖經的十誡之一
01:46
that is repeated twice in the Bible:
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在聖經中被重複提及兩次：
01:50
once for doing it, and once
just for thinking about it.
just for thinking about it.
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一次是別做，一次是連想也不准想。
01:54
(Laughter)
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(笑聲)
01:56
So how do we reconcile
what is universally forbidden,
what is universally forbidden,
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所以我們要如何面對這個普遍被禁止
02:00
yet universally practiced?
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但人人都在做的行為呢？
02:05
Now, throughout history, men
practically had a license to cheat
practically had a license to cheat
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從古自今，男人們幾乎都有出軌許可證
02:10
with little consequence,
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出軌不用付多大的代價
02:12
and supported by a host
of biological and evolutionary theories
of biological and evolutionary theories
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許多生物學和進化論
02:16
that justified their need to roam,
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合理化外遇行為
02:19
so the double standard
is as old as adultery itself.
is as old as adultery itself.
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雙重標準如同通姦一樣存在已久
02:24
But who knows what's really going on
under the sheets there, right?
under the sheets there, right?
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但床單下真的發生什麼，有人知道嗎？
02:29
Because when it comes to sex,
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當我們談到性愛，
02:31
the pressure for men
is to boast and to exaggerate,
is to boast and to exaggerate,
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男性就應該要表現的自信或誇大
02:35
but the pressure for women
is to hide, minimize and deny,
is to hide, minimize and deny,
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而女性隱藏，把自己顯得渺小和拒絕
02:41
which isn't surprising when you consider
that there are still nine countries
that there are still nine countries
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因此當你得知世界還有九個國家
02:45
where women can be killed for straying.
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女人會遭到殺害或流放時，並不會太過驚訝
02:49
Now, monogamy used to be
one person for life.
one person for life.
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一夫一妻制以前指一生一次
02:54
Today, monogamy is one person at a time.
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現在，是一次一人
02:58
(Laughter)
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(笑聲)
03:00
(Applause)
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(鼓掌)
03:04
I mean, many of you probably have said,
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你們應該說過，
03:06
"I am monogamous in all my relationships."
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「我在所有關係裡都是一對一」
03:09
(Laughter)
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(笑聲)
03:12
We used to marry,
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過去，我們結婚
03:14
and had sex for the first time.
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並在婚後發生第一次性行為
03:16
But now we marry,
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現在，我們結婚
03:18
and we stop having sex with others.
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然後停止和其他人發生性行為
03:21
The fact is that monogamy
had nothing to do with love.
had nothing to do with love.
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原因是一夫一妻制跟愛情無關
03:26
Men relied on women's fidelity
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男人依靠女人的忠貞
03:28
in order to know whose children these are,
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來確保孩子是他的，
03:31
and who gets the cows when I die.
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確認死後誰會繼承家產。
03:36
Now, everyone wants to know
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現在，大家都想知道，
03:38
what percentage of people cheat.
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外遇的比例有多少。
03:40
I've been asked that question
since I arrived at this conference.
since I arrived at this conference.
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來到這個會議時，許多人都這樣問我
03:43
(Laughter)
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(笑聲)
03:46
It applies to you.
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包括你。
03:48
But the definition of infidelity
keeps on expanding:
keeps on expanding:
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但婚外情的定義一直在擴大，
03:52
sexting, watching porn, staying
secretly active on dating apps.
secretly active on dating apps.
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諸如性愛簡訊，看色情影片，
偷偷使用聯誼網站等。
偷偷使用聯誼網站等。
03:58
So because there is no
universally agreed-upon definition
universally agreed-upon definition
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我們還沒有一個大家都同意的定義
04:02
of what even constitutes an infidelity,
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來說明構成不貞的要素
04:05
estimates vary widely,
from 26 percent to 75 percent.
from 26 percent to 75 percent.
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估計26%到75%的人
04:12
But on top of it, we are
walking contradictions.
walking contradictions.
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除此之外，我們常常自我矛盾。
04:16
So 95 percent of us will say
that it is terribly wrong
that it is terribly wrong
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所以95%的人會說
04:19
for our partner to lie
about having an affair,
about having an affair,
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另一半因外遇說謊是很糟糕的行為
04:22
but just about the same
amount of us will say
amount of us will say
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但一樣多的人表示
04:25
that that's exactly what we
would do if we were having one.
would do if we were having one.
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當我們外遇時也會這樣做。
04:28
(Laughter)
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（笑聲）
04:31
Now, I like this definition
of an affair --
of an affair --
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我喜歡這樣定義外遇，
04:35
it brings together the three key elements:
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它是三個關鍵要素構成的
04:39
a secretive relationship,
which is the core structure of an affair;
which is the core structure of an affair;
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外遇的主要架構是一段秘密的關係
04:45
an emotional connection
to one degree or another;
to one degree or another;
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和他人某種程度上的情緒連結
04:49
and a sexual alchemy.
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最後是性愛的化學作用
04:52
And alchemy is the key word here,
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化學作用是這裡的關鍵字
04:55
because the erotic frisson is such that
the kiss that you only imagine giving,
the kiss that you only imagine giving,
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一個充滿性慾和顫慄的吻
05:02
can be as powerful and as enchanting
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可以很有力量，且令人著迷，
05:05
as hours of actual lovemaking.
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如同實際做愛幾小時
05:09
As Marcel Proust said,
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普魯斯特說過，
05:11
it's our imagination that is responsible
for love, not the other person.
for love, not the other person.
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要對愛情負責的不是另一半，是想像力
05:17
So it's never been easier to cheat,
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所以沒有什麼比外遇更簡單
05:21
and it's never been more
difficult to keep a secret.
difficult to keep a secret.
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沒什麼比保住一個秘密更難
05:25
And never has infidelity exacted
such a psychological toll.
such a psychological toll.
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沒什麼比不真更讓人人財兩失
05:31
When marriage was an economic enterprise,
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當我們把婚姻比喻作企業
05:35
infidelity threatened
our economic security.
our economic security.
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不貞動搖整個經濟架構
05:39
But now that marriage
is a romantic arrangement,
is a romantic arrangement,
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當婚姻由浪漫所構成時
05:41
infidelity threatens
our emotional security.
our emotional security.
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不貞讓我們情緒不穩
05:45
Ironically, we used to turn to adultery --
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諷刺地，過去人們認為“通姦”
05:50
that was the space where
we sought pure love.
we sought pure love.
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是在窄縫中尋求真愛
05:53
But now that we seek love in marriage,
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現在我們在婚姻中尋覓愛情
05:55
adultery destroys it.
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卻說通姦毀了婚姻
05:58
Now, there are three ways that I think
infidelity hurts differently today.
infidelity hurts differently today.
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不貞在現今，用三種方式傷害人們
06:05
We have a romantic ideal
in which we turn to one person
in which we turn to one person
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我們有個完美主義或浪漫情節，對另一個人
06:11
to fulfill an endless list of needs:
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盡可能滿足對方所需
06:14
to be my greatest lover, my best friend,
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對愛人，摯友，
06:18
the best parent, my trusted confidant,
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父母，好友
06:21
my emotional companion,
my intellectual equal.
my intellectual equal.
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心靈伴侶，人生目標相同的人
06:25
And I am it: I'm chosen, I'm unique,
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我就是我，是被選中且獨特的
06:29
I'm indispensable, I'm irreplaceable,
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我是不可或缺也無法被替代的
06:33
I'm the one.
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我是獨一無二的
06:35
And infidelity tells me I'm not.
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但外遇告訴我一切並非如此
06:39
It is the ultimate betrayal.
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這是最終的背叛
06:41
Infidelity shatters
the grand ambition of love.
the grand ambition of love.
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不貞粉碎我們對愛情懷有的偉大夢想
06:46
But if throughout history,
infidelity has always been painful,
infidelity has always been painful,
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但回顧歷史，過去不貞使人痛心欲絕
06:51
today it is often traumatic,
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今日早成的傷害只是外部的。
06:53
because it threatens our sense of self.
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因為他威脅我們自身，
06:57
So my patient Fernando, he's plagued.
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我的客戶費南多，他完全崩潰了。
06:59
He goes on: "I thought I knew my life.
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他說：我以為了解自己的人生
07:02
I thought I knew who you were,
who we were as a couple, who I was.
who we were as a couple, who I was.
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我以為了解曾經的你，我們的婚姻和我
07:06
Now, I question everything."
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現在，我對一切都有疑問
07:09
Infidelity -- a violation of trust,
a crisis of identity.
a crisis of identity.
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不貞，使信任崩解，
也瓦解人對自我的認知
也瓦解人對自我的認知
07:14
"Can I ever trust you again?" he asks.
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我可以再信任你嗎？他問
07:17
"Can I ever trust anyone again?"
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我能再相信任何人嗎？
07:20
And this is also what my patient
Heather is telling me,
Heather is telling me,
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我的另一位客戶，希瑟說到
07:23
when she's talking to me
about her story with Nick.
about her story with Nick.
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當她在跟我講述她和尼克之間的故事時
07:26
Married, two kids.
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他們結婚，育有兩個小孩
07:27
Nick just left on a business trip,
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尼克剛離家出差
07:30
and Heather is playing
on his iPad with the boys,
on his iPad with the boys,
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希瑟和孩子們在玩他的平板，
07:34
when she sees a message
appear on the screen:
appear on the screen:
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她看見一條訊息出現在螢幕上：
07:37
"Can't wait to see you."
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我等不及要見你了。
07:39
Strange, she thinks,
we just saw each other.
we just saw each other.
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心裡感到莫名，
我們不是才剛分開嗎？她想
我們不是才剛分開嗎？她想
07:42
And then another message:
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接著另一封訊息寫道：
07:44
"Can't wait to hold you in my arms."
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等不及將你緊緊地抱在懷裡。
07:47
And Heather realizes
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希瑟頓時知道
07:50
these are not for her.
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這些訊息不是給她的
07:52
She also tells me
that her father had affairs,
that her father had affairs,
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她告訴我，她的父親也有外遇
07:55
but her mother, she found
one little receipt in the pocket,
one little receipt in the pocket,
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她的母親在他的口袋中發現一張小收據
07:59
and a little bit of lipstick
on the collar.
on the collar.
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領口上沾染一點口紅。
08:03
Heather, she goes digging,
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希瑟開始抽絲剝繭
08:06
and she finds hundreds of messages,
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她發現他們之間互傳幾百封的簡訊
08:09
and photos exchanged
and desires expressed.
and desires expressed.
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互相交換照片，對彼此訴說情慾
08:13
The vivid details
of Nick's two-year affair
of Nick's two-year affair
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尼克外遇兩年的證據和細節擺在眼前
08:16
unfold in front of her in real time,
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在現實中赤裸地呈現出來
08:19
And it made me think:
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不禁使我想到
08:21
Affairs in the digital age
are death by a thousand cuts.
are death by a thousand cuts.
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在數位時代，外遇就像凌遲
08:27
But then we have another paradox
that we're dealing with these days.
that we're dealing with these days.
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但我們現今卻存在另一個矛盾
08:31
Because of this romantic ideal,
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浪漫的理想，
08:33
we are relying on our partner's
fidelity with a unique fervor.
fidelity with a unique fervor.
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我們依賴父母之間對彼此忠誠
08:38
But we also have never
been more inclined to stray,
been more inclined to stray,
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但也時常偏離正道
08:42
and not because we have new desires today,
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並非現今的慾望比以前更多
08:45
but because we live in an era
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而是生在這個世代
08:47
where we feel that we are
entitled to pursue our desires,
entitled to pursue our desires,
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我們被灌輸要追求自己所渴望的一切
08:50
because this is the culture
where I deserve to be happy.
where I deserve to be happy.
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在這個文化薰陶下，我理應過得快樂
08:55
And if we used to divorce
because we were unhappy,
because we were unhappy,
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如果過去我們因為不開心而離婚
08:59
today we divorce
because we could be happier.
because we could be happier.
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今日我們離婚為追求更快樂的生活
09:03
And if divorce carried all the shame,
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過去，離婚是可恥的
09:06
today, choosing to stay when you can leave
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現在，當你可以離婚是卻選擇留下
09:10
is the new shame.
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同樣也被認為可恥。
09:12
So Heather, she can't talk to her friends
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所以希瑟無法向她的好友訴說這一切
09:15
because she's afraid that they
will judge her for still loving Nick,
will judge her for still loving Nick,
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她怕朋友會認為她仍愛著尼克
09:18
and everywhere she turns,
she gets the same advice:
she gets the same advice:
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無論求助何方，得到的都是一樣的建議
09:21
Leave him. Throw the dog on the curb.
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離開尼克，把這爛男人丟在一旁。
09:25
And if the situation were reversed,
Nick would be in the same situation.
Nick would be in the same situation.
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現在情況顛倒過來，尼克也會面臨同樣的事
09:31
Staying is the new shame.
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選擇留下也會視為可恥
09:35
So if we can divorce,
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如果我們可以選擇離婚
09:38
why do we still have affairs?
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為何外遇仍存在?
09:41
Now, the typical assumption
is that if someone cheats,
is that if someone cheats,
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一個典型的假設是，如果有人外遇
09:46
either there's something wrong
in your relationship or wrong with you.
in your relationship or wrong with you.
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不論問題在於你或你們的關係
09:51
But millions of people
can't all be pathological.
can't all be pathological.
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大部份的人是正常的
09:56
The logic goes like this: If you
have everything you need at home,
have everything you need at home,
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邏輯是這樣的，家裡有你需要的一切
10:00
then there is no need
to go looking elsewhere,
to go looking elsewhere,
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那就沒有必要去別處找
10:03
assuming that there is such
a thing as a perfect marriage
a thing as a perfect marriage
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假設有一個完美的婚姻
10:07
that will inoculate us against wanderlust.
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它讓我們的心繫著家裡
10:11
But what if passion
has a finite shelf life?
has a finite shelf life?
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但是假設激情有保存期限?
10:15
What if there are things
that even a good relationship
that even a good relationship
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假設一段再好的關係
10:19
can never provide?
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也有它欠缺的東西？
10:22
If even happy people cheat,
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如果就連開心的人都會外遇
10:25
what is it about?
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又是為什麼呢？
10:28
The vast majority of people
that I actually work with
that I actually work with
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大多數和我一同工作的人
10:31
are not at all chronic philanderers.
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都不是習慣於調戲他人的人
10:34
They are often people who are
deeply monogamous in their beliefs,
deeply monogamous in their beliefs,
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他們絕大部分推崇一夫一妻制
10:38
and at least for their partner.
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至少對他們的另一半是這樣。
10:40
But they find themselves in a conflict
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但是它們發現身處矛盾之中
10:43
between their values and their behavior.
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因為價值觀和行為南轅北轍
10:47
They often are people who have
actually been faithful for decades,
actually been faithful for decades,
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十幾年來，他們常常對另一半忠誠
10:51
but one day they cross a line
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有天，他們越過那條線
10:54
that they never thought they would cross,
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他們從未想過自己會越界
10:57
and at the risk of losing everything.
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且冒著會失去一切的風險
11:00
But for a glimmer of what?
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但是為的是什麼呢？
11:03
Affairs are an act of betrayal,
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外遇是背叛的行為
11:06
and they are also an expression
of longing and loss.
of longing and loss.
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也是表達渴望和失去的方式
11:10
At the heart of an affair,
you will often find
you will often find
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你會發現婚外情的核心
11:14
a longing and a yearning
for an emotional connection,
for an emotional connection,
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是對憧憬和嚮往的一種情緒表達
11:18
for novelty, for freedom,
for autonomy, for sexual intensity,
for autonomy, for sexual intensity,
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尋求新奇、自由、自主和性刺激
11:24
a wish to recapture
lost parts of ourselves
lost parts of ourselves
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希望重現自己失去的那一塊
11:28
or an attempt to bring back
vitality in the face of loss and tragedy.
vitality in the face of loss and tragedy.
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或企圖在失落和悲慘的生活中找回活力
11:34
I'm thinking about
another patient of mine, Priya,
another patient of mine, Priya,
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這使我想到另一位客戶，普里亞
11:37
who is blissfully married,
185
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她有個幸福美滿的婚姻
11:40
loves her husband,
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且深愛她的丈夫
11:41
and would never want to hurt the man.
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永遠都不曾想過傷害這個男人
11:44
But she also tells me
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但她同時告訴我
11:46
that she's always done
what was expected of her:
what was expected of her:
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她總是按著大家對她的期許生活
11:50
good girl, good wife, good mother,
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當個好女孩、好妻子，好媽媽
11:53
taking care of her immigrant parents.
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照顧她移民的雙親
11:56
Priya, she fell for the arborist
who removed the tree from her yard
who removed the tree from her yard
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桑迪颶風過境後，普里亞愛上從她院子
12:01
after Hurricane Sandy.
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移走樹木的樹藝家
12:03
And with his truck and his tattoos,
he's quite the opposite of her.
he's quite the opposite of her.
194
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他駕駛著卡車，帶有紋身，和她恰恰相反
12:09
But at 47, Priya's affair is about
the adolescence that she never had.
the adolescence that she never had.
195
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5222
但47歲，普里亞的婚外情就這樣稍縱即逝
12:15
And her story highlights for me
that when we seek the gaze of another,
that when we seek the gaze of another,
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她的故事提醒我，我們常尋求他人的注意
12:21
it isn't always our partner
that we are turning away from,
that we are turning away from,
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那人不是我們常避開頭的另一伴
12:25
but the person that
we have ourselves become.
we have ourselves become.
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而是我們心中希望成為的那個人
12:29
And it isn't so much that we're
looking for another person,
looking for another person,
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3546
我們注視著另一個人
12:33
as much as we are
looking for another self.
looking for another self.
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就像在她身上找另一個自己的影子
12:39
Now, all over the world,
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現在，世界各地
12:40
there is one word that people
who have affairs always tell me.
who have affairs always tell me.
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有婚外情的人都會這樣跟我說
12:45
They feel alive.
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1881
他們覺得重生了
12:48
And they often will tell me
stories of recent losses --
stories of recent losses --
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4240
他們也常常告訴我最近生活上失落的事
12:52
of a parent who died,
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1855
父親或母親去世了
12:54
and a friend that went too soon,
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762141
2200
朋友太快離開人間
12:56
and bad news at the doctor.
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1800
或從醫生口中捎來，不幸的消息
12:59
Death and mortality often live
in the shadow of an affair,
in the shadow of an affair,
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死亡和失敗多寄宿在婚外情的影子裡
13:04
because they raise these questions.
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它們讓人產生這些疑問
13:06
Is this it? Is there more?
210
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2904
就這樣？沒有更多了嗎？
13:09
Am I going on for another
25 years like this?
25 years like this?
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3056
未來的25年也是這樣過嗎？
13:13
Will I ever feel that thing again?
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我會再次有那樣的感受嗎？
13:18
And it has led me to think
that perhaps these questions
that perhaps these questions
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4411
這使我想到，假使這些問題
13:22
are the ones that propel
people to cross the line,
people to cross the line,
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3159
驅使人們去跨越界線
13:25
and that some affairs are
an attempt to beat back deadness,
an attempt to beat back deadness,
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3992
有些人外遇是試圖要擺脫無精打采的生活
13:29
in an antidote to death.
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把它當作死亡的解毒劑
13:33
And contrary to what you may think,
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相反地，你可能會想
13:36
affairs are way less about sex,
and a lot more about desire:
and a lot more about desire:
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5036
婚外情比起性愛，更關乎渴望
13:41
desire for attention,
desire to feel special,
desire to feel special,
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3489
想要獲得注意，想到感到獨一無二
13:45
desire to feel important.
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1916
想要感到自己是重要的
13:48
And the very structure of an affair,
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3010
婚外情的結構本身
13:51
the fact that you can
never have your lover,
never have your lover,
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事實是我們會對另一半
13:53
keeps you wanting.
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1435
感到厭煩
13:54
That in itself is a desire machine,
224
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婚外情是個製造渴望的機器
13:57
because the incompleteness, the ambiguity,
225
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2788
不完全性和模糊的距離
14:00
keeps you wanting
that which you can't have.
that which you can't have.
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2775
讓人想得到自己不該擁有的
14:05
Now some of you probably think
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1536
現在一些人大概想說
14:07
that affairs don't happen
in open relationships,
in open relationships,
228
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婚外情在開放式的關係中不會存在
14:10
but they do.
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1191
但是他還是會發生
14:12
First of all, the conversation
about monogamy is not the same
about monogamy is not the same
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3130
第一，關於一夫一妻制的對話是不同的
14:15
as the conversation about infidelity.
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2181
更遑論婚外情
14:18
But the fact is that it seems
that even when we have
that even when we have
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但事實是，就算我們有了
14:21
the freedom to have other sexual partners,
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2673
可以有其他性伴侶的自由
14:24
we still seem to be lured
by the power of the forbidden,
by the power of the forbidden,
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4088
我們仍會著迷於觸犯禁忌的感覺
14:28
that if we do that which
we are not supposed to do,
we are not supposed to do,
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3487
當我們做了不該做的事
14:32
then we feel like we are really
doing what we want to.
doing what we want to.
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2799
我們會覺得，在做我們真正想做的事
14:37
And I've also told
quite a few of my patients
quite a few of my patients
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3604
我跟很多病人說
14:40
that if they could bring
into their relationships
into their relationships
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4601
如果在一段關係中
14:45
one tenth of the boldness,
the imagination and the verve
the imagination and the verve
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3631
他們可以帶入十分之一的勇氣、想像力和活力
14:49
that they put into their affairs,
240
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把外遇時的十分之一放到婚姻
14:50
they probably would never need to see me.
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2245
就可能永遠不會來上們求診了
14:53
(Laughter)
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2000
(笑聲)
14:56
So how do we heal from an affair?
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所以我們要如何從婚外情中康復？
15:00
Desire runs deep.
244
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1919
慾望已根深蒂固
15:02
Betrayal runs deep.
245
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1871
背叛也是
15:05
But it can be healed.
246
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1555
但這是可以治癒的
15:07
And some affairs are death knells
247
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2921
有時婚外情就像死亡的鐘聲
15:10
for relationships that were
already dying on the vine.
already dying on the vine.
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折磨那些接近凋零的關係
15:14
But others will jolt us
into new possibilities.
into new possibilities.
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3016
但那鐘聲也會敲醒一些人探索新的可能
15:17
The fact is, the majority of couples
250
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1983
事實是，大部分歷經過
15:19
who have experienced
affairs stay together.
affairs stay together.
251
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2214
婚外情的夫妻仍在一起
15:22
But some of them will merely survive,
252
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2633
有些則難以回復到從前
15:25
and others will actually be able
to turn a crisis into an opportunity.
to turn a crisis into an opportunity.
253
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4704
其他甚至將危機化為轉機
15:30
They'll be able to turn this
into a generative experience.
into a generative experience.
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3643
他們能夠將這個做為一輩子的經驗
15:34
And I'm actually thinking even
more so for the deceived partner,
more so for the deceived partner,
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3714
我其實還得更多，所以對於被欺騙的那方
15:38
who will often say,
256
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1336
他們常說
15:39
"You think I didn't want more?
257
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1807
你以為我就不想要更多嗎？
15:41
But I'm not the one who did it."
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1842
但我沒有外遇
15:43
But now that the affair is exposed,
259
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2142
現在，婚外情揭露後
15:46
they, too, get to claim more,
260
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2134
他們開始要求更多
15:48
and they no longer have
to uphold the status quo
to uphold the status quo
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2642
所以他們不必再維持現狀
15:50
that may not have been working
for them that well, either.
for them that well, either.
262
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2914
反而過得更好
15:56
I've noticed that a lot of couples,
263
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2889
我注意到很多對夫妻
15:59
in the immediate aftermath of an affair,
264
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2141
在婚外情結束後的一段時間
16:01
because of this new disorder
that may actually lead to a new order,
that may actually lead to a new order,
265
949251
4336
生活上的失序反而讓他們重新找回生活步調
16:05
will have depths of conversations
with honesty and openness
with honesty and openness
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3582
開始進行有深度、誠實、開放的對話
16:09
that they haven't had in decades.
267
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1655
彌補過去幾十年的空白
16:11
And, partners who were
sexually indifferent
sexually indifferent
268
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2937
而且，性冷淡的夫妻們
16:14
find themselves suddenly
so lustfully voracious,
so lustfully voracious,
269
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2599
發現他們突然性急地渴望彼此
16:17
they don't know where it's coming from.
270
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2535
連他們都不知這感覺哪裡來的
16:20
Something about the fear
of loss will rekindle desire,
of loss will rekindle desire,
271
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3953
害怕失去會使人重新燃起興趣
16:24
and make way for an entirely
new kind of truth.
new kind of truth.
272
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3319
並用全然不同的角度看待一切
16:30
So when an affair is exposed,
273
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2871
所以當婚外情暴露了
16:33
what are some of the specific things
that couples can do?
that couples can do?
274
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3161
夫妻間可以做什麼具體的是呢?
16:38
We know from trauma that healing begins
275
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4071
心理創傷開始癒合時
16:42
when the perpetrator
acknowledges their wrongdoing.
acknowledges their wrongdoing.
276
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3992
是在外遇的那方主動先認錯
16:47
So for the partner who had the affair,
277
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3711
所以外遇的那方，
16:51
for Nick,
278
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1532
像是尼克
16:52
one thing is to end the affair,
279
1000582
1805
他該做的事是結束這段婚外情
16:54
but the other is the essential,
important act of expressing
important act of expressing
280
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4722
另一件必不可少且重要的是
16:59
guilt and remorse for hurting his wife.
281
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3206
表達出傷害妻子讓他感到內疚又自責
17:02
But the truth is
282
1010889
1375
但真相是
17:04
that I have noticed that quite a lot
of people who have affairs
of people who have affairs
283
1012264
3101
我注意到大部分有婚外情的人
17:07
may feel terribly guilty
for hurting their partner,
for hurting their partner,
284
1015365
3098
對於傷害另一伴感到極度的內疚
17:10
but they don't feel guilty
for the experience of the affair itself.
for the experience of the affair itself.
285
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3213
但是他們並不覺得婚外情本身是有罪的
17:14
And that distinction is important.
286
1022135
1841
這個區別很重要
17:17
And Nick, he needs to hold
vigil for the relationship.
vigil for the relationship.
287
1025230
3626
尼克在這個關係中需要保持警戒
17:21
He needs to become, for a while,
the protector of the boundaries.
the protector of the boundaries.
288
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3073
他需要暫時做這個分界的保護者
17:24
It's his responsibility to bring it up,
289
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2623
這是他的責任
17:26
because if he thinks about it,
290
1034949
1980
因為只要他這樣做
17:28
he can relieve Heather from the obsession,
291
1036929
3010
就會讓希瑟從痛庫苦之中解脫
17:31
and from having to make sure
that the affair isn't forgotten,
that the affair isn't forgotten,
292
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3210
同時也確認這段婚外情時不被遺忘的
17:35
and that in itself
begins to restore trust.
begins to restore trust.
293
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3183
也讓自己慢慢找回和希瑟間的信任
17:39
But for Heather,
294
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1859
但對於希瑟
17:41
or deceived partners,
295
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1745
和被欺騙的那一方
17:43
it is essential to do things
that bring back a sense of self-worth,
that bring back a sense of self-worth,
296
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5338
做一些能讓自己找回自我價值的事
17:48
to surround oneself with love
and with friends and activities
and with friends and activities
297
1056512
3733
讓愛、好友和各種活動填滿自己的生活
17:52
that give back joy
and meaning and identity.
and meaning and identity.
298
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3403
這讓人重拾快樂，和自身的價值
17:55
But even more important,
299
1063936
1933
但更重要的是
17:57
is to curb the curiosity
to mine for the sordid details --
to mine for the sordid details --
300
1065869
4903
要抑制住想要挖角過去黑暗面的好奇心
18:02
Where were you? Where did you do it?
301
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2197
你當時在哪裡？你那時做了什麼？
18:04
How often? Is she better
than me in bed? --
than me in bed? --
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很常見面嗎？她的上床技術比我更好？
18:07
questions that only inflict more pain,
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這些問題只會讓彼此更受傷
18:10
and keep you awake at night.
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並讓自己失眠
18:12
And instead, switch to what I call
the investigative questions,
the investigative questions,
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而是，切換到我所說的調查性問題
18:17
the ones that mine
the meaning and the motives --
the meaning and the motives --
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針對背後的意義和動機－
18:20
What did this affair mean for you?
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外遇對你意味著什麼?
18:23
What were you able to express
or experience there
or experience there
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你在那的表達和經歷些什麼
18:25
that you could no longer do with me?
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和我在一起無法做的事？
18:28
What was it like for you
when you came home?
when you came home?
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你回到家時有什麼感覺？
18:31
What is it about us that you value?
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我們之間你最珍惜什麼?
18:34
Are you pleased this is over?
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這件是告一段落你開心嗎？
18:38
Every affair will redefine a relationship,
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每段婚外情都會讓人重新檢視婚姻
18:42
and every couple will determine
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每對夫妻都會決定
18:45
what the legacy of the affair will be.
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婚外情後留下的是什麼
18:49
But affairs are here to stay,
and they're not going away.
and they're not going away.
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婚外情會留下，它不會被淡忘。
18:54
And the dilemmas of love and desire,
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愛情和慾望之間的兩難
18:56
they don't yield just simple answers
of black and white and good and bad,
of black and white and good and bad,
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夫妻間不會用簡單的答案，黑白是非來定義
19:02
and victim and perpetrator.
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害傷的和做錯事的人
19:06
Betrayal in a relationship
comes in many forms.
comes in many forms.
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一段關係中，背叛有很多形式
19:10
There are many ways
that we betray our partner:
that we betray our partner:
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我們用很多方法背叛另一伴
19:12
with contempt, with neglect,
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蔑視和忽視
19:14
with indifference, with violence.
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冷漠和暴力
19:17
Sexual betrayal is only
one way to hurt a partner.
one way to hurt a partner.
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用性背叛是傷害另一伴的方式之一
19:21
In other words, the victim of an affair
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也就是說，婚外情中的受傷者
19:24
is not always the victim of the marriage.
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並不是都是在婚姻中受傷的
19:29
Now, you've listened to me,
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現在，你聽我說
19:32
and I know what you're thinking:
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我知道你在想什麼
19:34
She has a French accent,
she must be pro-affair.
she must be pro-affair.
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她有法式口音，她一定贊成婚外情
19:38
(Laughter)
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(笑聲)
19:43
So, you're wrong.
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所以，你錯了
19:45
I am not French.
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我不是法國人
19:47
(Laughter)
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(笑聲)
19:50
(Applause)
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(掌聲)
19:53
And I'm not pro-affair.
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我也沒有外遇過
19:56
But because I think that good
can come out of an affair,
can come out of an affair,
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但因為認為婚外情過後會帶來好處
20:01
I have often been asked
this very strange question:
this very strange question:
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我常被問到這個十分奇怪的問題:
20:04
Would I ever recommend it?
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你支持婚外情嗎？
20:07
Now, I would no more
recommend you have an affair
recommend you have an affair
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現在，我不會再建議你去外遇
20:10
than I would recommend you have cancer,
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我建議你得癌症
20:13
and yet we know that people
who have been ill
who have been ill
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到目前為止，我們知道病入膏肓的人
20:15
often talk about how their illness
has yielded them a new perspective.
has yielded them a new perspective.
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常說身患重疾使他們對人生有新的領悟
20:20
The main question that I've been asked
since I arrived at this conference
since I arrived at this conference
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抵達這個會議後我主要被問的問題是
20:23
when I said I would talk
about infidelity is, for or against?
about infidelity is, for or against?
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當我說我要講述將於婚外情，贊成還是反對
20:28
I said, "Yes."
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我說「是」
20:30
(Laughter)
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(笑聲)
20:33
I look at affairs from a dual perspective:
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我用兩個面向看婚外情
20:37
hurt and betrayal on one side,
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受傷和背叛在一塊
20:41
growth and self-discovery on the other --
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成長和自我探索在另一邊
20:44
what it did to you,
and what it meant for me.
and what it meant for me.
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婚外其對你做過什麼，意義又是什麼？
20:48
And so when a couple comes to me
in the aftermath of an affair
in the aftermath of an affair
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所以當一對夫妻在婚外情
20:53
that has been revealed,
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被揭露過後來找我
20:55
I will often tell them this:
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我都這樣告訴他們
20:57
Today in the West,
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現今在西方國家
20:59
most of us are going to have
two or three relationships
two or three relationships
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大部分的我們都有過兩到三段感情
21:04
or marriages,
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或婚姻
21:06
and some of us are going
to do it with the same person.
to do it with the same person.
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有時候我們和同一個人經歷過這些
21:10
Your first marriage is over.
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你們第一個婚姻已經是過去式了
21:13
Would you like to create
a second one together?
a second one together?
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你們願意一起展開第二個嶄新的婚姻嗎？
21:17
Thank you.
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謝謝
21:18
(Applause)
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(鼓掌)
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Esther Perel - Relationship therapistPsychotherapist Esther Perel is changing the conversation on what it means to be in love and have a fulfilling sex life.
Why you should listen
For the first time in human history, couples aren’t having sex just to have kids; there’s room for sustained desire and long-term sexual relationships. But how? Perel, a licensed marriage and family therapist with a practice in New York, travels the world to help people answer this question. For her research she works across cultures and is fluent in nine languages. She coaches, consults and speaks regularly on erotic intelligence, trauma, sexual honesty and conflict resolution. She is the author of Mating in Captivity: Reconciling the Erotic and the Domestic. Her latest work focuses on infidelity: what it is, why happy people do it and how couples can recover from it. She aims to locate this very personal experience within a larger cultural context.
Esther Perel | Speaker | TED.com