Taste3 2008
Dan Barber: A foie gras parable
Dan Barber 出人意料的肥鹅肝寓言
Filmed:
Readability: 3.7
1,525,293 views
厨师 Dan Barber 讲述他在西班牙小农庄的发现：农夫 Eduardo Sousa 照着 Barber 人传统的食品生产法，以自然方法在自然环境中养鹅，人道且自然地生产肥鹅肝。
Dan Barber - Chef
Dan Barber is a chef and a scholar -- relentlessly pursuing the stories and reasons behind the foods we grow and eat. Full bio
Dan Barber is a chef and a scholar -- relentlessly pursuing the stories and reasons behind the foods we grow and eat. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:16
I went to Spain a few months ago
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几个月前我去了趟西班牙
00:20
and I had the best foie gras of my life.
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在那里我吃到了今生吃过最好吃的鹅肝酱
00:26
The best culinary experience of my life.
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这是我一生中最美妙的饮食经验
00:30
Because what I saw, I'm convinced, is the future of cooking.
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因为我相信我看到了饮食文化的未来
00:37
Ridiculous, right?
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莫名其妙，对吗？
00:38
Foie gras and the future of cooking.
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鹅肝酱和饮食文化的未来
00:40
There's not a food today that's more maligned than foie gras, right?
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在今日的饮食文化中，没有比鹅肝酱更敏感的话题了
00:43
I mean, it's crucified.
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几乎没人敢碰
00:45
It was outlawed in Chicago for a while.
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在芝加哥甚至有一阵子是违法的
00:47
It's pending here in California, and just recently in New York.
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加利福尼亚州还没有决定，纽约刚公布法令
00:52
It's like if you're a chef and you put it on your menu,
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感觉像是如果一个厨师把鹅肝酱放上菜单
00:55
you risk being attacked.
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就有被攻击的危险
00:57
Really, it happened here in San Francisco to a famous chef.
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真的，它才刚发生在旧金山一位知名厨师身上
01:01
I'm not saying that there's not a rationale
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我不是说反对鹅肝酱
01:07
for being opposed to foie gras.
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是不合理的
01:09
The reasons usually just boil down to the gavage, which is the force feeding.
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人们反对的是强制喂食
01:13
Basically you take a goose or a duck
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你抓着鹅，或是鸭
01:15
and you force feed a ton of grain down its throat.
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然后把大量的谷物往它脖子里倒
01:20
More grain in a couple of weeks than it would ever get in a lifetime.
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这两个礼拜的谷物等于它们一生的食量
01:24
Its liver expands by eight times.
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于是它们的肝脏胀大了八倍
01:27
Suffice to say it's like -- it's not the prettiest picture of sustainable farming.
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简单来说，这不是一个美好的景象
01:32
The problem for us chefs is that it's so freakin' delicious.
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问题是，对厨师来说，它实在超级无敌好吃
01:38
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
01:41
I mean, I love the stuff.
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我是说，我爱死它了
01:44
It is fatty, it's sweet, it's silky, it's unctuous.
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它油而不腻，带着丝般的甜味
01:49
It makes everything else you put it with taste incredible.
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它让所有东西都变得好吃
01:54
Can we produce a menu that's delicious without foie gras?
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我们可以创造一个零鹅肝的可口菜单吗？
02:00
Yes, sure.
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当然可以
02:02
You can also bike the Tour de France without steroids, right?
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就像你也可以不使用类固醇参加环法自行车赛啊
02:05
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
02:08
Not a lot of people are doing it.
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没什么人这样做
02:10
And for good reason.
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这是有原因的
02:12
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
02:13
So several months ago, a friend of mine sent me this link to this guy,
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几个月前，有个朋友介绍一个人给我
02:18
Eduardo Sousa.
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Eduardo Sousa。
02:21
Eduardo is doing what he calls natural foie gras.
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Eduardo 做得是全天然的肥鹅肝
02:25
Natural foie gras.
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全天然的肥鹅肝
02:27
What's natural about foie gras?
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肥鹅肝有可能是天然的吗？
02:30
To take advantage of when the temperature drops in the fall,
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他等到秋天天气变冷时
02:34
geese and ducks gorge on food
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鹅和鸭开始大量进食
02:39
to prepare for the harsh realities of winter.
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为冬天做准备
02:44
And the rest of the year they're free to roam around Eduardo's land
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其它时候它们漫游在 Eduardo 的农场上
02:49
and eat what they want.
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随意吃自己喜欢的
02:51
So no gavage, no force feeding,
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没有任何的强制喂食
02:52
no factory-like conditions, no cruelty.
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没有工厂、残忍虐待
02:56
And it's shockingly not a new idea.
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这是个惊人的新做法
02:58
His great-granddad started -- Patería de Sousa -- in 1812.
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从他的曾祖父开始 － Patria de Sousa
03:04
And they've been doing it quietly ever since.
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从1812年开始，他们不动声色地这样做
03:10
That is until last year,
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直到去年
03:13
when Eduardo won the Coup de Coeur,
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当 Eduardo 赢了法国厨艺界的
03:18
the coveted French gastronomic prize.
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”一见钟情“奖
03:22
It's like the Olympics of food products.
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那是食材的奥林匹克奖
03:25
He placed first for his foie gras.
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他得到鹅肝酱的第一名
03:29
Big, big problem.
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问题大了
03:31
As he said to me, that really pissed the French off.
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他告诉我，法国人非常生气
03:34
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
03:38
He said it sort of gleefully.
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他愉快地告诉我
03:40
It was all over the papers.
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它占满了报纸头条
03:42
I read about it. It was in Le Monde.
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我也读到了。在世界报上
03:44
"Spanish chef accused ... " -- and the French accused him.
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”西班牙厨师被控告……“法国人控告他
03:48
"Spanish chef accused of cheating."
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“西班牙厨师被控告有作弊嫌疑”
03:50
They accused him of paying off the judges.
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他们怀疑他收买了评审
03:52
They implicated actually, the Spanish government, amazingly.
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他们暗示这是西班牙政府做的
03:56
Huh, amazing.
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惊人吧
03:58
A huge scandal for a few weeks.
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这个巨大的丑闻持续了几个礼拜
03:59
Couldn't find a shred of evidence.
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没人能找到证据
04:02
Now, look at the guy.
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看看他
04:03
He doesn't look like a guy who's paying off French judges
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他怎么也不像一个会拿钱收买法国评审的人
04:05
for his foie gras.
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为了他的鹅肝酱
04:07
So that died down, and very soon afterward,
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风波慢慢平息，很快地
04:10
new controversy.
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新的争议出现了
04:12
He shouldn't win because it's not foie gras.
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他不能赢因为那不是鹅肝酱
04:17
It's not foie gras because it's not gavage.
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因为他没有使用强制喂食法
04:19
There's no force feeding.
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所以那不能算是鹅肝酱
04:21
So by definition, he's lying and should be disqualified.
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因为定义不同，他说了谎而且应该取消资格
04:26
As funny as it sounds, articulating it now and reading about it --
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虽然现在想想，或读到会觉得有点好笑
04:29
actually, if we had talked about it before this controversy,
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事实上，如果我们在争议发生前谈论此事
04:32
I would have said, "That's kind of true."
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我会说，那不是真的
04:34
You know, foie gras by definition, force feeding, it's gavage,
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鹅肝酱一定得使用强制喂食法
04:36
and that's what you get when you want foie gras.
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这就是你吃鹅肝酱所得到的
04:42
That is, until I went to Eduardo's farm in Extremadura,
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直到我去了 Eduardo 位在艾斯马度华的农场
04:47
50 miles north of Seville, right on the Portugal border.
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在塞维尔50英里的北方，葡萄牙边境
04:51
I saw first-hand a system that is incredibly complex
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我亲眼见到一个非常复杂的系统
04:55
and then at the same time, like everything beautiful in nature,
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同时也非常美丽而自然
05:00
is utterly simple.
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它非常简单
05:04
And he said to me, really from the first moment,
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他告诉我，从我见到他的第一刻起
05:06
my life's work is to give the geese what they want.
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我只是给这些鹅它们想要的
05:11
He repeated that about 50 times in the two days I was with him.
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在我与他在一起的这两天，他重复了50次
05:14
I'm just here to give the geese what they want.
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我只是给这些鹅它们想要的
05:18
Actually, when I showed up he was lying down with the geese with his cell phone
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事实上，我到的时候他正躺在地上
05:21
taking pictures of them
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用手机拍摄他的鹅
05:22
like his children in the grass.
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像他在草地上的孩子
05:24
Amazing.
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非常神奇。
05:26
He's really just in love with -- he's at one with --
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他深爱着这些 － 他就是
05:28
he's the goose whisperer.
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所谓的“从一鹅终”
05:30
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
05:36
And when I was speaking to him, you know, I thought,
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当我和他谈话的时候，你知道
05:41
like I'm speaking to you now, right,
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就像我现在和你说话一样
05:43
but sort of in the middle of my questions, my excited questions,
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但在我兴奋地向他提问的时候
05:48
because the more I got to know him and his system,
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因为我越认识他和他的姐妹
05:49
the more exciting this whole idea became.
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我就越对这个新知感到兴奋
05:53
He kept going like this to me.
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他多我做这个动作
05:57
And I thought, OK, excited Jew from New York, right?
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我想，哦，一个来自纽约的兴奋犹太人
06:01
I'm talking a little too aggressively, whatever,
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或许我有点太激进了，但没关系
06:05
so you know, I slowed down.
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于是我慢了下来
06:07
And finally, by the end of the day I was like,
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终于，在一天快结束时，我说
06:08
Ed-uar-do, you know like this?
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Eduardo，这是什么意思？
06:11
But he was still going like this.
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但他仍然做着一样的动作
06:14
I figured it out.
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我终于懂了
06:16
I was speaking too loudly.
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我说话太大声了
06:19
So I hushed my voice.
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于是我降低声音
06:21
I kind of like asked these questions and chatted with him through a translator
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我经过一个翻译员，问他这些问题
06:25
in kind of a half whisper.
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轻声细语地
06:27
And he stopped doing this.
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他不再做这个手势了
06:29
And amazingly, the geese who were on the other side of the paddock when I was around --
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神奇的是，那些刚刚站得离我们很远的鹅
06:34
"Get the hell away from this kid!" --
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“不要靠近那些孩子！”
06:36
when I lowered my voice, they all came right up to us.
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当我降低声音，它们围了上来
06:39
Right up to us, like right up to here.
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围到了这里
06:40
Right along the fence line.
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沿着栅栏线
06:41
And fence line was amazing in itself.
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连栅栏线本身也很神奇
06:44
The fence -- like this conception of fence that we have
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我们概念里的栅栏
06:47
it's totally backward with him.
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与他的概念正好是相反的
06:49
The electricity on this fiberglass fence
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玻璃纤维栅栏上
06:51
is only on the outside.
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是向外的一圈通电
06:54
He rewired it. He invented it.
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于是他重新设计发明
06:57
I've never seen it. Have you?
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我从来没有看过，你有吗？
07:00
You fence in animals. You electrify the inside.
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你把动物围住，向内通电
07:03
He doesn't.
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他不是
07:04
He electrifies only the outside.
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他把栅栏外面通电
07:07
Why?
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为什么？
07:08
Because he said to me that he felt like the geese --
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因他说他认为这些鹅
07:10
and he proved this actually, not just a conceit, he proved this --
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这不只是一个想法，他证明了
07:15
the geese felt manipulated when they were imprisoned in their little paddocks.
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当这些鹅住在栅栏中，它们会感觉自己被监禁
07:21
Even though they were imprisoned in this Garden of Eden
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就算是被监禁在这个伊甸园一样美好的地方
07:23
with figs and everything else.
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到处都是无花果
07:24
He felt like they felt manipulated.
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他认为它们感觉自己受控
07:26
So he got rid of the electricity,
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于是他把电关掉
07:28
he got rid of current on the inside
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把向内的电流关上
07:31
and kept it on the outside,
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只保留了向外的电流
07:32
so it would protect them against coyotes and other predators.
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让通电栅栏可以保护它们不受小野狼和其它天敌
07:35
Now, what happened?
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然后呢？
07:37
They ate, and he showed me on a chart,
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它们大吃。他给我看图表
07:39
how they ate about 20 percent more feed to feed their livers.
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它们多吃了百分之二十，喂肥它们的肝
07:44
The landscape is incredible.
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这景色非常神奇
07:46
I mean, his farm is incredible.
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他的牧场非常神奇
07:48
It really is the Garden of Eden.
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感觉就像伊甸园一样
07:50
There's figs and everything else there for the taking.
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有无花果和其它食物供应
07:52
And the irony of ironies is because Extremadura, the area --
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讽刺中的讽刺是，这个叫艾斯马度华的地方
07:54
what does Extremadura mean?
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艾斯马度华是什么意思？
07:55
Extra hard land, right?
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艾斯马度华是“硬地”的意思
07:58
Extra difficult. Extra hard.
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非常坚硬的土地。
08:00
But over four generations, he and his family
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但在他的家庭住了四代以后
08:02
have literally transformed this extra hard land into a tasting menu.
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这块“硬地”变成了可口的菜单
08:07
Upgrades the life for these geese.
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鹅的生活改善了
08:13
And they are allowed to take whatever they want.
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它们可以随心所欲的吃自己想吃的
08:15
Another irony, the double irony
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还有另一个意外
08:16
is that on the figs and the olives,
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那些拿来喂鹅的无花果和橄榄
08:17
Eduardo can make more money selling those
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如果 Eduardo 卖掉它们
08:20
than he can on the foie gras.
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会比肥鹅肝本身更值钱
08:22
He doesn't care.
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但他不在乎
08:23
He lets them take what they want and he says,
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他让它们想吃什么就吃什么，他说
08:25
"Usually, it's about 50 percent. They're very fair."
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”大概会吃掉一半吧，它们很公平的。“
08:28
The other 50 percent, he takes and he sells and he makes money on them.
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他把另外的一半卖掉赚钱
08:31
Part of the income for his farm.
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他牧场收入的一部分
08:33
A big part of his income for his farm.
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很大的一部分
08:35
But he never controls it.
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但他从来不控制那些鹅
08:37
They get what they want,
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它们可以吃自己想吃的
08:38
they leave the rest for me and I sell it.
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我再把它们留给我的卖掉
08:41
His biggest obstacle, really, was the marketplace,
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他最大的困难在市场
08:45
which demands these days bright yellow foie gras.
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市场需求是又黄又亮的鹅肝酱
08:50
That's how I've been trained.
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我也是被这样训练的
08:51
You want to look and see what good foie gras is,
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如果你要知道好的鹅肝酱是什么样子
08:53
it's got to be bright yellow.
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一定得是亮黄色的
08:55
It's the indication that it's the best foie gras.
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它证明那是最好的鹅肝酱
08:59
Well, because he doesn't force feed,
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因为他不强制喂食
09:01
because he doesn't gavage tons of corn,
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因为他不强喂大量的玉米
09:05
his livers were pretty grey.
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他的鹅肝酱是灰色的
09:07
Or they were.
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应该说，本来是
09:09
But he found this wild plant called the Lupin bush.
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他后来找到了一种叫羽扁豆的野生植物
09:15
The Lupin bush, it's all around Extremadura.
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艾斯马度华上到处都是这种羽扁豆
09:17
He let it go to seed, he took the seeds,
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他等它结种，他取得种子以后
09:19
he planted it on his 30 acres, all around.
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把它种在附近30公顷的土地上
09:22
And the geese love the Lupin bush.
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鹅非常喜欢羽扁豆
09:24
Not for the bush, but for the seeds.
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不是它的叶子，而是它的种子
09:26
And when they eat the seeds, their foie gras turns yellow.
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当它们吃下这些种子，鹅肝便变黄
09:30
Radioactive yellow.
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荧光黄
09:32
Bright yellow.
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亮黄色
09:35
Of the highest quality foie gras yellow I've ever seen.
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我见过最好的肥鹅肝黄
09:38
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
09:41
So I'm listening to all this, you know, and I'm like,
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我听着他说，心想
09:44
is this guy for real? Is he making some of this up?
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他是说真的吗？还是编出来的？
09:47
Is he like, you know -- because he seemed to have an answer for everything,
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他好像有一切解答
09:50
and it was always nature.
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而且永远保持天然
09:52
It was never him.
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而不是人造。
09:54
And I was like, you know, I always get a little, like,
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我有点 － 你知道
09:58
weirded out by people who deflect everything away from themselves.
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我总觉得那些对成果却之不恭的人很奇怪
10:01
Because, really, they want you to look at themselves, right?
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他们要的不是自我表现吗？
10:03
But he deflected everything away from his ingenuity
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但他从未提到他对他的农场
10:05
into working with his landscape.
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所做的这些独出心裁的发明
10:08
So it's like, here I am, I'm on the fence about this guy,
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我就坐在那里，有些狐疑的
10:11
but increasingly, eating up his every word.
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但渐渐地被说服
10:14
And we're sitting there, and I hear [clapping] from a distance, so I look over.
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我们就坐在那里，我听见不远处……的声音
10:20
And he grabs my arm and the translator's,
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他抓住我和翻译员的手臂
10:23
and ducks us under a bush and says, "Watch this."
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拉着我们躲到树丛里，他说“你看。”
10:25
"Shush," he says again for the 500th time to me.
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“嘘！”他再次提醒我
10:27
"Shush, watch this."
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“嘘，你看。“
10:30
And this squadron of geese come over.
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一队鹅飞了过来
10:32
[Clapping]
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（击掌）
10:33
And they're getting louder, louder, louder, like really loud, right over us.
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声音越来越大，越来越大，就在我们后方
10:38
And like airport traffic control, as they start to go past us
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当它们飞跃我们，感觉就像站在飞机跑道上
10:44
they're called back -- and they're called back and back and back.
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它们被叫了回来 － 被一次次地叫了回来
10:48
And then they circle around.
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它们绕着飞
10:49
And his geese are calling up now to the wild geese.
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他的鹅呼唤着野鹅
10:52
[Clapping]
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（击掌）
10:53
And the wild geese are calling down.
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野鹅被叫了下来
10:54
[Clapping]
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（击掌）
10:55
And it's getting louder and louder and they circle and circle
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它们绕着绕着，越来越大声
10:57
and they land.
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然后它们降落
10:58
And I'm just saying, "No way."
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我心想，”这怎么可能。“
11:00
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
11:03
No way.
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怎么可能。
11:05
And I look at Eduardo, who's near tears looking at this,
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我看着 Eduardo，他眼眶含泪
11:10
and I say, "You're telling me that your geese are calling to the wild geese
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我说“你是说你的鹅在跟这些野鹅说
11:14
to say come for a visit?"
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来拜访我们一下？”
11:16
And he says, "No, no, no.
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他说“不，不
11:18
They've come to stay."
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它们是来住的。”
11:21
They've come to stay?
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它们要留在这里？
11:23
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
11:25
It's like the DNA of a goose is to fly south in the winter, right?
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野鹅的基因应该是冬天往南飞啊
11:31
I said that. I said "Isn't that what they're put on this Earth for?
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我说，“这不是就是它们来到世界上的目的吗？
11:34
To fly south in the winter and north when it gets warm?"
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冬天往南，温暖再往北飞？”
11:36
He said, "No, no, no.
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他说，“不，不，不。
11:38
Their DNA is to find the conditions that are conducive to life.
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它们的基因是为自己找到一个
11:42
To happiness.
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快乐生存的方法
11:45
They find it here.
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它们在这里找到了
11:47
They don't need anything more."
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它们一无所缺了。”
11:49
They stop. They mate with his domesticated geese,
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它们留下。它们和他的家鹅交配
11:53
and his flock continues.
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他的鹅群继续着
11:56
Think about that for a minute.
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想一想
11:58
It's brilliant, right?
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这不是很妙吗？
11:59
Imagine -- I don't know, imagine a hog farm
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想象在一个猪棚中
12:03
in, like, North Carolina,
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在北卡罗来纳州好了
12:04
and a wild pig comes upon a factory farm
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野猪跑进了一个农业工厂
12:09
and decides to stay.
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决定定居
12:11
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
12:12
So how did it taste?
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究竟吃起来怎样呢？
12:14
I finally got to taste it before I left.
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在我离开前我终于品尝到了
12:16
He took me to his neighborhood restaurant
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他带我去附近的一家餐厅
12:19
and he served me some of his foie gras, confit de foie gras.
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他给了我一些鹅肝酱
12:23
It was incredible.
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那真是太美妙了。
12:25
And the problem with saying that, of course, is that
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这么说的问题在
12:28
you know, at this point it risks hyperbole really easily.
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听上去可能有些夸张
12:33
And I'd like to make a metaphor, but I don't have one really.
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我很希望有个合适的比喻，但我没有
12:37
I was drinking this guy's Kool-Aid so much,
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我喝了太多他给我灌的迷汤
12:40
he could have served me goose feathers and I would have been like,
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他就算给我吃鹅毛我也会说
12:44
this guy's a genius, you know?
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这家伙是个天才，你知道
12:46
I'm really in love with him at this point.
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我那时简直爱上他了
12:48
But it truly was the best foie gras of my life.
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但那的确是我吃过最好吃的鹅肝
12:51
So much so that I don't think I had ever really had foie gras until that moment.
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到了一种，我认为我从来没有真正吃过鹅肝
12:55
I'd had something that was called foie gras.
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只是一些叫做鹅肝的东西
12:58
But this was transformative. Really transformative.
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那改变了我，真的改变了我
13:00
And I say to you, I might not stick to this,
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我对各位说，虽然有可能不会履行
13:04
but I don't think I'll ever serve foie gras on my menu again
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但我想我不会再把鹅肝放到菜单上
13:09
because of that taste experience with Eduardo.
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因为和 Eduardo 的那次美食经验
13:15
It was sweet, it was unctuous.
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它甜美，不油腻
13:16
It had all the qualities of foie gras,
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它拥有肥鹅肝该有的一切
13:19
but its fat had a lot of integrity and a lot of honesty.
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但这些脂肪里却充满着诚实和尊严
13:24
And you could taste herbs, you could taste spices.
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你可以吃到香草，你可以吃到香料
13:27
And I kept -- I said, you know, I swear to God I tasted star anise.
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我发誓我吃到了八角茴香
13:33
I was sure of it.
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我很确定
13:34
And I'm not like some super taster, you know?
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我不是那种舌头很灵的人，你知道
13:36
But I can taste things.
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但我还是尝得出来
13:38
There's 100 percent star anise in there.
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我百分之百确定那里有八角茴香的味道
13:40
And he says, "No."
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他说“没有。“
13:42
And I ended up like going down the spices,
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我努力尝出不同香料
13:43
and finally, it was like, OK, salt and pepper,
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终于，我说，好，盐和胡椒
13:46
thinking he's salted and peppered his liver.
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想着他应该在鹅肝里放了盐和胡椒吧
13:48
But no.
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但没有
13:49
He takes the liver when he harvests the foie gras,
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它把肥鹅肝拿出来
13:52
he sticks them in this jar
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放进罐子里
13:54
and he confits it.
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做浓缩，渍料处理
13:56
No salt, no pepper, no oil, no spices.
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没有盐，没有胡椒，没有油，没有香料
13:59
What?
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没有香料？
14:01
We went back out for the final tour of the farm,
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我们最后一次回到农庄
14:04
and he showed me the wild pepper plants
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他给我们看那些野生的胡椒
14:06
and the plants that he made sure existed on his farm for salinity.
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以及他种来保持土地咸度的植物
14:11
He doesn't need salt and pepper.
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他不需要盐或胡椒
14:12
And he doesn't need spices, because he's got this potpourri of herbs and flavors
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也不需要香料，因为他的鹅就吃他
14:18
that his geese love to gorge on.
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种的这些混合香草
14:22
I turned to him at the end of the meal,
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饭后我转向他
14:23
and it's a question I asked several times,
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问他一个我反复问他
14:25
and he hadn't, kind of, answered me directly,
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他却没有正面回答的问题
14:27
but I said, "Now look, you're in Spain,
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我说“你在西班牙，
14:30
some of the greatest chefs in the world are --
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这里有全世界最好的厨师
14:32
Ferran Adria, the preeminent chef of the world today, not that far from you.
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Ferran Adria，当代最好的厨师，就在你附近
14:40
How come you don't give him this?
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为什么你没有给他这个？
14:42
How come no one's really heard of you?"
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为什么你默默无名？”
14:45
And it may be because of the wine,
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可能是因为酒的关系
14:46
or it may be because of my excitement,
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可能是因为我的兴奋
14:47
he answered me directly and he said, "Because chefs don't deserve my foie gras."
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他直接回答我说：因为厨师配不上我的肥鹅肝。
14:52
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
14:55
And he was right.
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他说的是对的
14:56
He was right.
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是对的
14:57
Chefs take foie gras and they make it their own.
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厨师们用肥鹅肝做自己想要的
15:01
They create a dish
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把它变成一道菜。
15:03
where all the vectors point at us.
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但我们今天所得到的这一切
15:07
With Eduardo it's about the expression of nature.
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都是 Eduardo 力求天然的成果
15:12
And as he said, I think fittingly,
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他说
15:16
it's a gift from God, with God saying, you've done good work.
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这是来自上天的礼物，上天说：你做得好。
15:22
Simple.
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就是这样。
15:24
I flew home, I'm on the flight with my little black book
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在回程飞机上，我打开我黑色的小笔记本
15:26
and I took, you know, pages and pages of notes about it.
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里面写满了一页又一页的笔记
15:29
I really was moved.
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我非常感动
15:31
And in the corner of one of these -- one of my notes,
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在这些笔记的其中一个角落
15:36
is this note that says, when asked,
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我写道，当他被问到对于
15:40
what do you think of conventional foie gras?
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今日一般人所吃的肥鹅肝
15:41
What do you think of foie gras that
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那些世界上百分之99.99999
15:42
99.99999 percent of the world eats?
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的人所吃的肥鹅肝有什么意见？
15:47
He said, "I think it's an insult to history."
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他说“我认为那是污辱历史。”
15:50
And I wrote, insult to history.
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我写着：对历史的污辱。
15:53
I'm on the plane and I'm just tearing my hair out.
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我在飞机上感觉悔恨万分
15:55
It's like, why didn't I follow up on that?
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为什么我没追问下去？
15:56
What the hell does that mean?
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他为什么这么说？
15:57
Insult to history.
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对历史的污辱
16:00
So I did some research when I got back,
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于是我回去着手做了一些研究
16:02
and here's what I found.
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这些是我找到的资料
16:04
The history of foie gras.
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肥鹅肝的历史
16:05
Jews invented foie gras.
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犹太人发明了肥鹅肝
16:09
True story.
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千真万确
16:10
True story.
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千真万确
16:11
By accident.
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是意外发现的
16:13
They were looking for an alternative to schmaltz.
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他们在找鸡油的替代品
16:17
Gotten sick of the chicken fat.
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因为吃腻了鸡油
16:18
They were looking for an alternative.
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他们开始找寻一些替代品
16:19
And they saw in the fall that there was this natural,
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在秋天的时候他们发现了这全天然
16:21
beautiful, sweet, delicious fat from geese.
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甜美，可口的鹅脂肪
16:25
And they slaughtered them, used the fat throughout the winter for cooking.
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他们把鹅杀了，整个冬天就用这油来煮
16:29
The Pharaoh got wind of this --
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法老听说了
16:31
This is true, right off the Internet.
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这千真万确，我从互联网上找的
16:33
The Pharaoh got -- (Laughter)
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法老听 （笑声）
16:36
I swear to God.
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我对神发誓
16:38
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
16:39
The Pharaoh got wind of this and wanted to taste it.
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埃及法老听说了，想要尝尝看
16:43
He tasted it and fell in love with it.
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他尝了，爱上了这个滋味
16:45
He started demanding it.
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他开始要求厨房提供给他
16:46
And he didn't want it just in the fall, he wanted it all year round.
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不止在秋天，他全年都要
16:49
And he demanded that the Jews supply enough for everyone.
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他要求犹太人要让每个人都能吃到
16:53
And the Jews, fearing for their life,
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担心自己生命安全的犹太人
16:55
had to come up with an ingenious idea,
348
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想出了一个前所未有的点子
16:57
or at least try and satisfy the Pharaoh's wishes, of course.
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尝试满足埃及法老的要求
17:01
And they invented, what? Gavage.
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他们发明了 － 强喂法
17:03
They invented gavage in a great moment of fear for their lives,
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他们是在生命威胁下发明强喂法的
17:11
and they provided the Pharaoh with gavage liver,
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他们把喂肥了的肝献给埃及法老
17:14
and the good stuff they kept for themselves.
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然后把好的部分留下给自己
17:16
Supposedly, anyway. I believe that one.
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应该是，至少我相信
17:19
That's the history of foie gras.
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这就是肥鹅肝的来源
17:22
And if you think about it,
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如果我们思考
17:23
it's the history of industrial agriculture.
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农业产业化的历史
17:28
It's the history of what we eat today.
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就是我们今日食物的历史
17:31
Most of what we eat today.
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今天我们所吃的食物大部分都是
17:33
Mega-farms, feed lots, chemical amendments,
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巨型农场、集体喂食、化学改良
17:37
long-distance travel, food processing.
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长距离的运送过程，工厂处理
17:40
All of it, our food system.
362
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全在我们的食物系统里
17:42
That's also an insult to history.
363
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这也是对历史的污辱
17:46
It's an insult to the basic laws of nature
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对自然法则的污辱
17:50
and of biology.
365
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以及对生物的污辱
17:54
Whether we're talking about beef cattle
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无论是肉牛
17:57
or we're talking about chickens,
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鸡
18:00
or we're talking about broccoli or Brussels sprouts,
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花椰菜或是抱子甘蓝
18:04
or in the case of this morning's New York Times, catfish --
369
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或是今天早上纽约时报的报导 － 鲶鱼
18:09
which wholesale are going out of business.
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的批发商的经营失利
18:13
Whatever it is, it's a mindset that is reminiscent of General Motors.
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无论如何，这就像通用汽车
18:18
It's rooted in extraction.
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都是需索无度
18:21
Take more, sell more, waste more.
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拿取，贩卖，浪费
18:24
And for the future it won't serve us.
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在未来这些都不再存在
18:28
Jonas Salk has a great quote.
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Jonas Saik 说过一金句
18:30
He said, "If all the insects disappeared,
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他说“如果所有昆虫消失
18:32
life on Earth as we know it would disappear within 50 years.
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我们所知道的地球万物在50年内会全部消失，
18:39
If human beings disappeared, life on Earth as we know it would flourish."
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如果人类消失，地球万物会蓬勃生长。”
18:46
And he's right.
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他是对的
18:50
We need now to adopt a new conception of agriculture.
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我们需要接受一种新的农业概念
18:56
Really new.
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完全崭新
18:57
One in which we stop treating the planet
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我们不能再把地球
19:00
as if it were some kind of business in liquidation.
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当作一个几乎破产的公司
19:04
And stop degrading resources under the guise of
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停止利用便宜食物之名来
19:08
cheap food.
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浪费资源
19:10
We can start by looking to farmers like Eduardo.
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我们可以以 Eduardo 这样的农夫为例子
19:14
Farmers that rely on nature
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农夫靠天吃饭
19:15
for solutions, for answers,
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靠自然提供答案
19:19
rather than imposing solutions on nature.
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与其勉强自然接受人为的解答
19:22
Listening as Janine Benyus,
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我最喜欢的作家和思想家
19:24
one of my favorite writers and thinkers about this topic says,
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Janine Benyus 这么说
19:27
"Listening to nature's operating instructions."
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“遵照自然的使用说明”
19:30
That's what Eduardo does, and does so brilliantly.
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这就是 Eduardo 所达成的
19:33
And what he showed me and what he can show all of us, I think,
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他显示给我们我们在场每个人，包括我，看的
19:35
is that the great thing for chefs, the great blessing for chefs,
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对厨师和那些关系食物和厨艺的人们
19:42
and for people that care about food and cooking,
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来说最好的事是
19:49
is that the most ecological choice for food
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最符合自然的食物选择
19:52
is also the most ethical choice for food.
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也是最符合伦理道德的食物选择
19:55
Whether we're talking about Brussels sprouts or foie gras.
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无论我们讨论的是抱子甘蓝还是肥鹅肝
19:58
And it's also almost always, and I haven't found an example otherwise,
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几乎总是，我从未发现其它可能
20:02
but almost always, the most delicious choice.
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这也是最美味的选择
20:07
That's serendipitous.
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浑然天成。
20:08
Thank you.
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谢谢。
20:09
(Applause)
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（掌声）
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Dan Barber - ChefDan Barber is a chef and a scholar -- relentlessly pursuing the stories and reasons behind the foods we grow and eat.
Why you should listen
Dan Barber is the chef at New York's Blue Hill restaurant, and Blue Hill at Stone Barns in Westchester, where he practices a kind of close-to-the-land cooking married to agriculture and stewardship of the earth. As described on Chez Pim: "Stone Barns is only 45 minutes from Manhattan, but it might as well be a whole different universe. A model of self-sufficiency and environmental responsibility, Stone Barns is a working farm, ranch, and a three-Michelin-star-worthy restaurant." It's a vision of a new kind of food chain.
Barber's philosophy of food focuses on pleasure and thoughtful conservation -- on knowing where the food on your plate comes from and the unseen forces that drive what we eat. He's written on US agricultural policies, asking for a new vision that does not throw the food chain out of balance by subsidizing certain crops at the expense of more appropriate ones.
In 2009, Barber received the James Beard award for America's Outstanding Chef, and was named one of the world's most influential people in Time’s annual "Time 100" list. In 2014 he published The Third Plate: Field Notes on the Future of Food.
Dan Barber | Speaker | TED.com