Taste3 2008
Dan Barber: A foie gras parable
Dan Barber 出人意料的肥鹅肝寓言
Filmed:
Readability: 3.7
1,525,293 views
廚師 Dan Barber 講述他在西班牙小農莊的發現﹕農夫 Eduardo Sousa 照著 Barber 人傳統的食品生產法﹐以自然法在自然環境中養鵝﹐人道且自然地生產肥鵝肝。
Dan Barber - Chef
Dan Barber is a chef and a scholar -- relentlessly pursuing the stories and reasons behind the foods we grow and eat. Full bio
Dan Barber is a chef and a scholar -- relentlessly pursuing the stories and reasons behind the foods we grow and eat. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:16
I went to Spain a few months ago
0
0
4000
幾個月前我去了趟西班牙
00:20
and I had the best foie gras of my life.
1
4000
6000
在那裏我吃到了今生吃過最好吃的鵝肝醬
00:26
The best culinary experience of my life.
2
10000
3000
這是我一生中最美妙的飲食經驗
00:30
Because what I saw, I'm convinced, is the future of cooking.
3
14000
7000
因為我相信我看到了飲食文化的未來
00:37
Ridiculous, right?
4
21000
1000
莫名其妙，對嗎？
00:38
Foie gras and the future of cooking.
5
22000
2000
鵝肝醬和飲食文化的未來
00:40
There's not a food today that's more maligned than foie gras, right?
6
24000
3000
在今日的飲食文化中，沒有比鵝肝醬更敏感的話題了
00:43
I mean, it's crucified.
7
27000
2000
幾乎沒人敢碰
00:45
It was outlawed in Chicago for a while.
8
29000
2000
在芝加哥甚至有一陣子是違法的
00:47
It's pending here in California, and just recently in New York.
9
31000
5000
加州還沒有決定，紐約剛公佈法令
00:52
It's like if you're a chef and you put it on your menu,
10
36000
3000
感覺像是如果一個廚師把鵝肝醬放上菜單
00:55
you risk being attacked.
11
39000
2000
就有被攻擊的危險
00:57
Really, it happened here in San Francisco to a famous chef.
12
41000
4000
真的，它才剛發生在舊金山一位知名廚師身上
01:01
I'm not saying that there's not a rationale
13
45000
6000
我不是說反對鵝肝醬
01:07
for being opposed to foie gras.
14
51000
2000
是不合理的
01:09
The reasons usually just boil down to the gavage, which is the force feeding.
15
53000
4000
人們反對的是填鴨
01:13
Basically you take a goose or a duck
16
57000
2000
你抓著鵝，或是鴨
01:15
and you force feed a ton of grain down its throat.
17
59000
5000
然後把大量的穀物往它脖子裏倒
01:20
More grain in a couple of weeks than it would ever get in a lifetime.
18
64000
4000
這兩個禮拜的穀物等於它們一生的食量
01:24
Its liver expands by eight times.
19
68000
3000
於是牠們的肝臟脹大了八倍
01:27
Suffice to say it's like -- it's not the prettiest picture of sustainable farming.
20
71000
5000
簡單來說，這不是一個美好的景象
01:32
The problem for us chefs is that it's so freakin' delicious.
21
76000
6000
問題是，對廚師來說，它實在超級無敵好吃
01:38
(Laughter)
22
82000
3000
（笑聲）
01:41
I mean, I love the stuff.
23
85000
3000
我是說，我愛死它了
01:44
It is fatty, it's sweet, it's silky, it's unctuous.
24
88000
5000
它油而不膩，帶著絲般的甜味
01:49
It makes everything else you put it with taste incredible.
25
93000
5000
它讓所有東西都變得好吃
01:54
Can we produce a menu that's delicious without foie gras?
26
98000
6000
我們可以創造一個零鵝肝的可口菜單嗎？
02:00
Yes, sure.
27
104000
2000
當然可以
02:02
You can also bike the Tour de France without steroids, right?
28
106000
3000
就像不靠類固醇也可以完成環法自行車賽啊
02:05
(Laughter)
29
109000
3000
（笑聲）
02:08
Not a lot of people are doing it.
30
112000
2000
沒什麼人這樣做
02:10
And for good reason.
31
114000
2000
這是有原因的
02:12
(Laughter)
32
116000
1000
（笑聲）
02:13
So several months ago, a friend of mine sent me this link to this guy,
33
117000
5000
幾個月前，有個朋友介紹一個人給我
02:18
Eduardo Sousa.
34
122000
3000
Eduardo Sousa。
02:21
Eduardo is doing what he calls natural foie gras.
35
125000
4000
Eduardo 做的是全天然的肥鵝肝
02:25
Natural foie gras.
36
129000
2000
全天然的肥鵝肝
02:27
What's natural about foie gras?
37
131000
3000
肥鵝肝有可能是天然的嗎？
02:30
To take advantage of when the temperature drops in the fall,
38
134000
4000
他等到秋天天氣變冷時
02:34
geese and ducks gorge on food
39
138000
5000
鵝和鴨開始大量進食
02:39
to prepare for the harsh realities of winter.
40
143000
5000
為冬天做準備
02:44
And the rest of the year they're free to roam around Eduardo's land
41
148000
5000
其他時候牠們漫遊在 Eduardo 的農場上
02:49
and eat what they want.
42
153000
2000
隨意吃自己喜歡的
02:51
So no gavage, no force feeding,
43
155000
1000
沒有任何的填鴨
02:52
no factory-like conditions, no cruelty.
44
156000
4000
沒有工廠、殘忍虐待
02:56
And it's shockingly not a new idea.
45
160000
2000
這是個驚人的新做法
02:58
His great-granddad started -- Patería de Sousa -- in 1812.
46
162000
6000
從他的曾祖父開始 － Patria de Sousa
03:04
And they've been doing it quietly ever since.
47
168000
6000
從1812年開始，他們不動聲色地這樣做
03:10
That is until last year,
48
174000
3000
直到去年
03:13
when Eduardo won the Coup de Coeur,
49
177000
5000
當 Eduardo 贏了法國廚藝界的
03:18
the coveted French gastronomic prize.
50
182000
4000
”一見鍾情“獎
03:22
It's like the Olympics of food products.
51
186000
3000
那是食材的奧林匹克獎
03:25
He placed first for his foie gras.
52
189000
4000
他得到鵝肝醬的第一名
03:29
Big, big problem.
53
193000
2000
問題大了
03:31
As he said to me, that really pissed the French off.
54
195000
3000
他告訴我，法國人非常生氣
03:34
(Laughter)
55
198000
4000
（笑聲）
03:38
He said it sort of gleefully.
56
202000
2000
他愉快地告訴我
03:40
It was all over the papers.
57
204000
2000
它占滿了報紙頭條
03:42
I read about it. It was in Le Monde.
58
206000
2000
我也讀到了。在世界報上
03:44
"Spanish chef accused ... " -- and the French accused him.
59
208000
4000
”西班牙廚師被控告……“法國人控告他
03:48
"Spanish chef accused of cheating."
60
212000
2000
“西班牙廚師被控告有作弊嫌疑”
03:50
They accused him of paying off the judges.
61
214000
2000
他們懷疑他收買了評審
03:52
They implicated actually, the Spanish government, amazingly.
62
216000
3000
他們暗示這是西班牙政府做的
03:56
Huh, amazing.
63
220000
2000
驚人吧
03:58
A huge scandal for a few weeks.
64
222000
1000
這個巨大的醜聞持續了幾個禮拜
03:59
Couldn't find a shred of evidence.
65
223000
3000
沒人能找到證據
04:02
Now, look at the guy.
66
226000
1000
看看他
04:03
He doesn't look like a guy who's paying off French judges
67
227000
2000
他怎麼也不像一個會拿錢收買法國評審的人
04:05
for his foie gras.
68
229000
2000
為了他的鵝肝醬
04:07
So that died down, and very soon afterward,
69
231000
3000
風波慢慢平息，很快地
04:10
new controversy.
70
234000
2000
新的爭議出現了
04:12
He shouldn't win because it's not foie gras.
71
236000
5000
他不能贏因為那不是鵝肝醬
04:17
It's not foie gras because it's not gavage.
72
241000
2000
因為他沒有使用填鴨法
04:19
There's no force feeding.
73
243000
2000
所以那不能算是鵝肝醬
04:21
So by definition, he's lying and should be disqualified.
74
245000
5000
因為定義不同，他說了謊而且應該取消資格
04:26
As funny as it sounds, articulating it now and reading about it --
75
250000
3000
雖然現在想想，或讀到會覺得有點好笑
04:29
actually, if we had talked about it before this controversy,
76
253000
3000
事實上，如果我們在爭議發生前談論此事
04:32
I would have said, "That's kind of true."
77
256000
2000
我會說，那不是真的
04:34
You know, foie gras by definition, force feeding, it's gavage,
78
258000
2000
鵝肝醬一定得使用填鴨法
04:36
and that's what you get when you want foie gras.
79
260000
6000
這就是你吃鵝肝醬所得到的
04:42
That is, until I went to Eduardo's farm in Extremadura,
80
266000
5000
直到我去了 Eduardo 位在艾斯馬度華的農場
04:47
50 miles north of Seville, right on the Portugal border.
81
271000
4000
在塞維爾50英里的北方，葡萄牙邊境
04:51
I saw first-hand a system that is incredibly complex
82
275000
4000
我親眼見到一個非常複雜的系統
04:55
and then at the same time, like everything beautiful in nature,
83
279000
5000
同時也非常美麗而自然
05:00
is utterly simple.
84
284000
3000
它非常簡單
05:04
And he said to me, really from the first moment,
85
288000
2000
他告訴我，從我見到他的第一刻起
05:06
my life's work is to give the geese what they want.
86
290000
5000
我只是給這些鵝牠們想要的
05:11
He repeated that about 50 times in the two days I was with him.
87
295000
3000
在我與他在一起的這兩天，他重複了50次
05:14
I'm just here to give the geese what they want.
88
298000
4000
我只是給這些鵝牠們想要的
05:18
Actually, when I showed up he was lying down with the geese with his cell phone
89
302000
3000
事實上，我到的時候他正躺在地上
05:21
taking pictures of them
90
305000
1000
用手機拍攝他的鵝
05:22
like his children in the grass.
91
306000
2000
像他在草地上的孩子
05:24
Amazing.
92
308000
2000
非常神奇。
05:26
He's really just in love with -- he's at one with --
93
310000
2000
他深愛著這些 － 他就是
05:28
he's the goose whisperer.
94
312000
2000
所謂的“從一鵝終”
05:30
(Laughter)
95
314000
2000
（笑聲）
05:36
And when I was speaking to him, you know, I thought,
96
320000
5000
當我和他談話的時候，你知道
05:41
like I'm speaking to you now, right,
97
325000
2000
就像我現在和你說話一樣
05:43
but sort of in the middle of my questions, my excited questions,
98
327000
5000
但在我興奮地向他提問的時候
05:48
because the more I got to know him and his system,
99
332000
1000
因為我越認識他和他的姐妹
05:49
the more exciting this whole idea became.
100
333000
4000
我就越對這個新知感到興奮
05:53
He kept going like this to me.
101
337000
1000
他對我做這個動作
05:57
And I thought, OK, excited Jew from New York, right?
102
341000
4000
我想，哦，一個來自紐約的興奮猶太人
06:01
I'm talking a little too aggressively, whatever,
103
345000
4000
或許我有點太激進了，但沒關係
06:05
so you know, I slowed down.
104
349000
2000
於是我慢了下來
06:07
And finally, by the end of the day I was like,
105
351000
1000
終於，在一天快結束時，我說
06:08
Ed-uar-do, you know like this?
106
352000
3000
Eduardo，這是什麼意思？
06:11
But he was still going like this.
107
355000
3000
但他仍然做著一樣的動作
06:14
I figured it out.
108
358000
2000
我終於懂了
06:16
I was speaking too loudly.
109
360000
2000
我說話太大聲了
06:19
So I hushed my voice.
110
363000
2000
於是我降低聲音
06:21
I kind of like asked these questions and chatted with him through a translator
111
365000
4000
我經過一個翻譯員，問他這些問題
06:25
in kind of a half whisper.
112
369000
2000
輕聲細語地
06:27
And he stopped doing this.
113
371000
2000
他不再做這個手勢了
06:29
And amazingly, the geese who were on the other side of the paddock when I was around --
114
373000
5000
神奇的是，那些剛剛站得離我們很遠的鵝
06:34
"Get the hell away from this kid!" --
115
378000
2000
“不要靠近那些孩子！”
06:36
when I lowered my voice, they all came right up to us.
116
380000
3000
當我降低聲音，牠們圍了上來
06:39
Right up to us, like right up to here.
117
383000
1000
圍到了這裏
06:40
Right along the fence line.
118
384000
1000
沿著柵欄線
06:41
And fence line was amazing in itself.
119
385000
3000
連柵欄線本身也很神奇
06:44
The fence -- like this conception of fence that we have
120
388000
3000
我們概念裏的柵欄
06:47
it's totally backward with him.
121
391000
2000
與他的概念正好是相反的
06:49
The electricity on this fiberglass fence
122
393000
2000
玻璃纖維柵欄上
06:51
is only on the outside.
123
395000
3000
是向外的一圈通電
06:54
He rewired it. He invented it.
124
398000
3000
於是他重新設計發明
06:57
I've never seen it. Have you?
125
401000
3000
我從來沒有看過，你有嗎？
07:00
You fence in animals. You electrify the inside.
126
404000
3000
你把動物圍住，向內通電
07:03
He doesn't.
127
407000
1000
他不是
07:04
He electrifies only the outside.
128
408000
3000
他把柵欄外面通電
07:07
Why?
129
411000
1000
為什麼？
07:08
Because he said to me that he felt like the geese --
130
412000
2000
因他說他認為這些鵝
07:10
and he proved this actually, not just a conceit, he proved this --
131
414000
5000
這不只是一個想法，他證明了
07:15
the geese felt manipulated when they were imprisoned in their little paddocks.
132
419000
6000
當這些鵝住在柵欄中，它們會感覺自己被監禁
07:21
Even though they were imprisoned in this Garden of Eden
133
425000
2000
就算是被監禁在這個伊甸園一樣美好的地方
07:23
with figs and everything else.
134
427000
1000
到處都是無花果
07:24
He felt like they felt manipulated.
135
428000
2000
他認為它們感覺自己受控
07:26
So he got rid of the electricity,
136
430000
2000
於是他把電關掉
07:28
he got rid of current on the inside
137
432000
3000
把向內的電流關上
07:31
and kept it on the outside,
138
435000
1000
只保留了向外的電流
07:32
so it would protect them against coyotes and other predators.
139
436000
3000
讓通電柵欄可以保護它們不受小野狼和其他天敵
07:35
Now, what happened?
140
439000
2000
然後呢？
07:37
They ate, and he showed me on a chart,
141
441000
2000
牠們大吃。他給我看圖表
07:39
how they ate about 20 percent more feed to feed their livers.
142
443000
5000
它們多吃了百分之二十，餵肥牠們的肝
07:44
The landscape is incredible.
143
448000
2000
這景色非常神奇
07:46
I mean, his farm is incredible.
144
450000
2000
他的牧場非常神奇
07:48
It really is the Garden of Eden.
145
452000
2000
感覺就像伊甸園一樣
07:50
There's figs and everything else there for the taking.
146
454000
2000
有無花果和其他食物供應
07:52
And the irony of ironies is because Extremadura, the area --
147
456000
2000
諷刺中的諷刺是，這個叫艾斯馬度華的地方
07:54
what does Extremadura mean?
148
458000
1000
艾斯馬度華是什麼意思？
07:55
Extra hard land, right?
149
459000
3000
艾斯馬度華是“硬地”的意思
07:58
Extra difficult. Extra hard.
150
462000
2000
非常堅硬的土地。
08:00
But over four generations, he and his family
151
464000
2000
但在他的家庭住了四代以後
08:02
have literally transformed this extra hard land into a tasting menu.
152
466000
5000
這塊“硬地”變成了可口的菜單
08:07
Upgrades the life for these geese.
153
471000
6000
鵝的生活改善了
08:13
And they are allowed to take whatever they want.
154
477000
2000
牠們可以隨心所欲的吃自己想吃的
08:15
Another irony, the double irony
155
479000
1000
還有另一個意外
08:16
is that on the figs and the olives,
156
480000
1000
那些拿來餵鵝的無花果和橄欖
08:17
Eduardo can make more money selling those
157
481000
3000
如果 Eduardo 賣掉它們
08:20
than he can on the foie gras.
158
484000
2000
會比肥鵝肝本身更值錢
08:22
He doesn't care.
159
486000
1000
但他不在乎
08:23
He lets them take what they want and he says,
160
487000
2000
他讓牠們想吃什麼就吃什麼，他說
08:25
"Usually, it's about 50 percent. They're very fair."
161
489000
3000
”大概會吃掉一半吧，牠們很公平的。“
08:28
The other 50 percent, he takes and he sells and he makes money on them.
162
492000
3000
他把另外的一半賣掉賺錢
08:31
Part of the income for his farm.
163
495000
2000
他牧場收入的一部分
08:33
A big part of his income for his farm.
164
497000
2000
很大的一部分
08:35
But he never controls it.
165
499000
2000
但他從來不控制那些鵝
08:37
They get what they want,
166
501000
1000
牠們可以吃自己想吃的
08:38
they leave the rest for me and I sell it.
167
502000
3000
我再把牠們留給我的賣掉
08:41
His biggest obstacle, really, was the marketplace,
168
505000
4000
他最大的困難在市場
08:45
which demands these days bright yellow foie gras.
169
509000
5000
市場需求是又黃又亮的鵝肝醬
08:50
That's how I've been trained.
170
514000
1000
我也是被這樣訓練的
08:51
You want to look and see what good foie gras is,
171
515000
2000
如果你要知道好的鵝肝醬是什麼樣子
08:53
it's got to be bright yellow.
172
517000
2000
一定得是亮黃色的
08:55
It's the indication that it's the best foie gras.
173
519000
4000
牠證明那是最好的鵝肝醬
08:59
Well, because he doesn't force feed,
174
523000
2000
因為他不填鴨
09:01
because he doesn't gavage tons of corn,
175
525000
4000
因為他不強餵大量的玉米
09:05
his livers were pretty grey.
176
529000
2000
他的鵝肝醬是灰色的
09:07
Or they were.
177
531000
2000
應該說，本來是
09:09
But he found this wild plant called the Lupin bush.
178
533000
6000
他後來找到了一種叫羽扁豆的野生植物
09:15
The Lupin bush, it's all around Extremadura.
179
539000
2000
艾斯馬度華上到處都是這種羽扁豆
09:17
He let it go to seed, he took the seeds,
180
541000
2000
他等它結種，他取得種子以後
09:19
he planted it on his 30 acres, all around.
181
543000
3000
把它種在附近30公頃的土地上
09:22
And the geese love the Lupin bush.
182
546000
2000
鵝非常喜歡羽扁豆
09:24
Not for the bush, but for the seeds.
183
548000
2000
不是它的葉子，而是它的種子
09:26
And when they eat the seeds, their foie gras turns yellow.
184
550000
4000
當牠們吃下這些種子，鵝肝便變黃
09:30
Radioactive yellow.
185
554000
2000
螢光黃
09:32
Bright yellow.
186
556000
2000
亮黃色
09:35
Of the highest quality foie gras yellow I've ever seen.
187
559000
3000
我見過最好的肥鵝肝黃
09:38
(Laughter)
188
562000
3000
（笑聲）
09:41
So I'm listening to all this, you know, and I'm like,
189
565000
3000
我聽著他說，心想
09:44
is this guy for real? Is he making some of this up?
190
568000
3000
他是說真的嗎？還是編出來的？
09:47
Is he like, you know -- because he seemed to have an answer for everything,
191
571000
3000
他好像有一切解答
09:50
and it was always nature.
192
574000
2000
而且永遠保持天然
09:52
It was never him.
193
576000
2000
而不是人造。
09:54
And I was like, you know, I always get a little, like,
194
578000
4000
我有點 － 你知道
09:58
weirded out by people who deflect everything away from themselves.
195
582000
3000
我總覺得那些對成果卻之不恭的人很奇怪
10:01
Because, really, they want you to look at themselves, right?
196
585000
2000
他們要的不是自我表現嗎？
10:03
But he deflected everything away from his ingenuity
197
587000
2000
但他從未提到他對他的農場
10:05
into working with his landscape.
198
589000
3000
所做的這些獨出心裁的發明
10:08
So it's like, here I am, I'm on the fence about this guy,
199
592000
3000
我就坐在那裏，有些狐疑的
10:11
but increasingly, eating up his every word.
200
595000
3000
但漸漸地被說服
10:14
And we're sitting there, and I hear [clapping] from a distance, so I look over.
201
598000
6000
我們就坐在那裏，我聽見不遠處……的聲音
10:20
And he grabs my arm and the translator's,
202
604000
3000
他抓住我和翻譯員的手臂
10:23
and ducks us under a bush and says, "Watch this."
203
607000
2000
拉著我們躲到樹叢裏，他說“你看。”
10:25
"Shush," he says again for the 500th time to me.
204
609000
2000
“噓！”他再次提醒我
10:27
"Shush, watch this."
205
611000
3000
“噓，你看。“
10:30
And this squadron of geese come over.
206
614000
2000
一隊鵝飛了過來
10:32
[Clapping]
207
616000
1000
（擊掌）
10:33
And they're getting louder, louder, louder, like really loud, right over us.
208
617000
5000
聲音越來越大，越來越大，就在我們後方
10:38
And like airport traffic control, as they start to go past us
209
622000
6000
當牠們飛躍我們，感覺就像站在飛機跑道上
10:44
they're called back -- and they're called back and back and back.
210
628000
4000
牠們被叫了回來 － 被一次次地叫了回來
10:48
And then they circle around.
211
632000
1000
牠們繞著飛
10:49
And his geese are calling up now to the wild geese.
212
633000
3000
他的鵝呼喚著野鵝
10:52
[Clapping]
213
636000
1000
（擊掌）
10:53
And the wild geese are calling down.
214
637000
1000
野鵝被叫了下來
10:54
[Clapping]
215
638000
1000
（擊掌）
10:55
And it's getting louder and louder and they circle and circle
216
639000
2000
牠們繞著繞著，越來越大聲
10:57
and they land.
217
641000
1000
然後它們降落
10:58
And I'm just saying, "No way."
218
642000
2000
我心想，”這怎麼可能。“
11:00
(Laughter)
219
644000
3000
（笑聲）
11:03
No way.
220
647000
2000
怎麼可能。
11:05
And I look at Eduardo, who's near tears looking at this,
221
649000
5000
我看著 Eduardo，他眼眶含淚
11:10
and I say, "You're telling me that your geese are calling to the wild geese
222
654000
4000
我說“你是說你的鵝在跟這些野鵝說
11:14
to say come for a visit?"
223
658000
2000
來拜訪我們一下？”
11:16
And he says, "No, no, no.
224
660000
2000
他說“不，不
11:18
They've come to stay."
225
662000
3000
"牠們是來住的。”
11:21
They've come to stay?
226
665000
2000
牠們要留在這裏？
11:23
(Laughter)
227
667000
2000
（笑聲）
11:25
It's like the DNA of a goose is to fly south in the winter, right?
228
669000
6000
野鵝的基因應該是冬天往南飛啊
11:31
I said that. I said "Isn't that what they're put on this Earth for?
229
675000
3000
我說，“這不是就是它們來到世界上的目的嗎？
11:34
To fly south in the winter and north when it gets warm?"
230
678000
2000
冬天往南，溫暖再往北飛？”
11:36
He said, "No, no, no.
231
680000
2000
他說，“不，不，不。
11:38
Their DNA is to find the conditions that are conducive to life.
232
682000
4000
牠們的基因是為自己找到一個
11:42
To happiness.
233
686000
3000
快樂生存的方法
11:45
They find it here.
234
689000
2000
牠們在這裏找到了
11:47
They don't need anything more."
235
691000
2000
牠們一無所缺了。”
11:49
They stop. They mate with his domesticated geese,
236
693000
4000
牠們留下。牠們和他的家鵝交配
11:53
and his flock continues.
237
697000
3000
他的鵝群繼續著
11:56
Think about that for a minute.
238
700000
2000
想一想
11:58
It's brilliant, right?
239
702000
1000
這不是很妙嗎？
11:59
Imagine -- I don't know, imagine a hog farm
240
703000
4000
想像在一個豬棚中
12:03
in, like, North Carolina,
241
707000
1000
在北卡羅來納州好了
12:04
and a wild pig comes upon a factory farm
242
708000
5000
野豬跑進了一個農業工廠
12:09
and decides to stay.
243
713000
2000
決定定居
12:11
(Laughter)
244
715000
1000
（笑聲）
12:12
So how did it taste?
245
716000
2000
究竟吃起來怎樣呢？
12:14
I finally got to taste it before I left.
246
718000
2000
在我離開前我終於品嘗到了
12:16
He took me to his neighborhood restaurant
247
720000
3000
他帶我去附近的一家餐廳
12:19
and he served me some of his foie gras, confit de foie gras.
248
723000
4000
他給了我一些鵝肝醬
12:23
It was incredible.
249
727000
2000
那真是太美妙了。
12:25
And the problem with saying that, of course, is that
250
729000
3000
這麼說的問題在
12:28
you know, at this point it risks hyperbole really easily.
251
732000
5000
聽上去可能有些誇張
12:33
And I'd like to make a metaphor, but I don't have one really.
252
737000
4000
我很希望有個合適的比喻，但我沒有
12:37
I was drinking this guy's Kool-Aid so much,
253
741000
3000
我喝了太多他給我灌的迷湯
12:40
he could have served me goose feathers and I would have been like,
254
744000
4000
他就算給我吃鵝毛我也會說
12:44
this guy's a genius, you know?
255
748000
2000
這傢伙是個天才，你知道
12:46
I'm really in love with him at this point.
256
750000
2000
我那時簡直愛上他了
12:48
But it truly was the best foie gras of my life.
257
752000
3000
但那的確是我吃過最好吃的鵝肝
12:51
So much so that I don't think I had ever really had foie gras until that moment.
258
755000
4000
到了一種，我認為我從來沒有真正吃過鵝肝
12:55
I'd had something that was called foie gras.
259
759000
3000
只是一些叫做鵝肝的東西
12:58
But this was transformative. Really transformative.
260
762000
2000
那改變了我，真的改變了我
13:00
And I say to you, I might not stick to this,
261
764000
4000
我對各位說，雖然有可能不會履行
13:04
but I don't think I'll ever serve foie gras on my menu again
262
768000
5000
但我想我不會再把鵝肝放到菜單上
13:09
because of that taste experience with Eduardo.
263
773000
6000
因為和 Eduardo 的那次美食經驗
13:15
It was sweet, it was unctuous.
264
779000
1000
它甜美，不油膩
13:16
It had all the qualities of foie gras,
265
780000
3000
它擁有肥鵝肝該有的一切
13:19
but its fat had a lot of integrity and a lot of honesty.
266
783000
5000
但這些脂肪裏卻充滿著誠實和尊嚴
13:24
And you could taste herbs, you could taste spices.
267
788000
3000
你可以吃到香草，你可以吃到香料
13:27
And I kept -- I said, you know, I swear to God I tasted star anise.
268
791000
6000
我發誓我吃到了八角茴香
13:33
I was sure of it.
269
797000
1000
我很確定
13:34
And I'm not like some super taster, you know?
270
798000
2000
我不是那種舌頭很靈的人，你知道
13:36
But I can taste things.
271
800000
2000
但我還是嘗得出來
13:38
There's 100 percent star anise in there.
272
802000
2000
我百分之百確定那裏有八角茴香的味道
13:40
And he says, "No."
273
804000
2000
他說“沒有。“
13:42
And I ended up like going down the spices,
274
806000
1000
我努力嘗出不同香料
13:43
and finally, it was like, OK, salt and pepper,
275
807000
3000
終於，我說，好，鹽和胡椒
13:46
thinking he's salted and peppered his liver.
276
810000
2000
想著他應該在鵝肝裏放了鹽和胡椒吧
13:48
But no.
277
812000
1000
但沒有
13:49
He takes the liver when he harvests the foie gras,
278
813000
3000
它把肥鵝肝拿出來
13:52
he sticks them in this jar
279
816000
2000
放進罐子裏
13:54
and he confits it.
280
818000
2000
做濃縮，漬料處理
13:56
No salt, no pepper, no oil, no spices.
281
820000
3000
沒有鹽，沒有胡椒，沒有油，沒有香料
13:59
What?
282
823000
2000
沒有香料？
14:01
We went back out for the final tour of the farm,
283
825000
3000
我們最後一次回到農莊
14:04
and he showed me the wild pepper plants
284
828000
2000
他給我們看那些野生的胡椒
14:06
and the plants that he made sure existed on his farm for salinity.
285
830000
5000
以及他種來保持土地鹹度的植物
14:11
He doesn't need salt and pepper.
286
835000
1000
他不需要鹽或胡椒
14:12
And he doesn't need spices, because he's got this potpourri of herbs and flavors
287
836000
6000
也不需要香料，因為他的鵝就吃他
14:18
that his geese love to gorge on.
288
842000
4000
種的這些混合香草
14:22
I turned to him at the end of the meal,
289
846000
1000
飯後我轉向他
14:23
and it's a question I asked several times,
290
847000
2000
問他一個我反復問他
14:25
and he hadn't, kind of, answered me directly,
291
849000
2000
他卻沒有正面回答的問題
14:27
but I said, "Now look, you're in Spain,
292
851000
3000
我說“你在西班牙，
14:30
some of the greatest chefs in the world are --
293
854000
2000
這裏有全世界最好的廚師
14:32
Ferran Adria, the preeminent chef of the world today, not that far from you.
294
856000
8000
Ferran Adria，當代最好的廚師，就在你附近
14:40
How come you don't give him this?
295
864000
2000
為什麼你沒有給他這個？
14:42
How come no one's really heard of you?"
296
866000
3000
為什麼你默默無名？”
14:45
And it may be because of the wine,
297
869000
1000
可能是因為酒的關係
14:46
or it may be because of my excitement,
298
870000
1000
可能是因為我的興奮
14:47
he answered me directly and he said, "Because chefs don't deserve my foie gras."
299
871000
5000
他直接回答我說：因為廚師配不上我的肥鵝肝。
14:52
(Laughter)
300
876000
3000
（笑聲）
14:55
And he was right.
301
879000
1000
他說的是對的
14:56
He was right.
302
880000
1000
是對的
14:57
Chefs take foie gras and they make it their own.
303
881000
4000
廚師們用肥鵝肝做自己想要的
15:01
They create a dish
304
885000
2000
把它變成一道菜。
15:03
where all the vectors point at us.
305
887000
4000
但我們今天所得到的這一切
15:07
With Eduardo it's about the expression of nature.
306
891000
5000
都是 Eduardo 力求天然的成果
15:12
And as he said, I think fittingly,
307
896000
4000
他說
15:16
it's a gift from God, with God saying, you've done good work.
308
900000
6000
這是來自上天的禮物，上天說：你做得好。
15:22
Simple.
309
906000
1000
就是這樣。
15:24
I flew home, I'm on the flight with my little black book
310
908000
2000
在回程飛機上，我打開我黑色的小筆記本
15:26
and I took, you know, pages and pages of notes about it.
311
910000
3000
裏面寫滿了一頁又一頁的筆記
15:29
I really was moved.
312
913000
2000
我非常感動
15:31
And in the corner of one of these -- one of my notes,
313
915000
5000
在這些筆記的其中一個角落
15:36
is this note that says, when asked,
314
920000
4000
我寫道，當他被問到對於
15:40
what do you think of conventional foie gras?
315
924000
1000
今日一般人所吃的肥鵝肝
15:41
What do you think of foie gras that
316
925000
1000
那些世界上百分之99.99999
15:42
99.99999 percent of the world eats?
317
926000
5000
的人所吃的肥鵝肝有什麼意見？
15:47
He said, "I think it's an insult to history."
318
931000
3000
他說“我認為那是污辱歷史。”
15:50
And I wrote, insult to history.
319
934000
3000
我寫著：對歷史的污辱。
15:53
I'm on the plane and I'm just tearing my hair out.
320
937000
2000
我在飛機上感覺悔恨萬分
15:55
It's like, why didn't I follow up on that?
321
939000
1000
為什麼我沒追問下去？
15:56
What the hell does that mean?
322
940000
1000
他為什麼這麼說？
15:57
Insult to history.
323
941000
3000
對歷史的污辱
16:00
So I did some research when I got back,
324
944000
2000
於是我回去著手做了一些研究
16:02
and here's what I found.
325
946000
2000
這些是我找到的資料
16:04
The history of foie gras.
326
948000
1000
肥鵝肝的歷史
16:05
Jews invented foie gras.
327
949000
4000
猶太人發明了肥鵝肝
16:09
True story.
328
953000
1000
千真萬確
16:10
True story.
329
954000
1000
千真萬確
16:11
By accident.
330
955000
2000
是意外發現的
16:13
They were looking for an alternative to schmaltz.
331
957000
4000
他們在找雞油的替代品
16:17
Gotten sick of the chicken fat.
332
961000
1000
因為吃膩了雞油
16:18
They were looking for an alternative.
333
962000
1000
他們開始找尋一些替代品
16:19
And they saw in the fall that there was this natural,
334
963000
2000
在秋天的時候他們發現了這全天然
16:21
beautiful, sweet, delicious fat from geese.
335
965000
4000
甜美，可口的鵝脂肪
16:25
And they slaughtered them, used the fat throughout the winter for cooking.
336
969000
4000
他們把鵝殺了，整個冬天就用這油來煮
16:29
The Pharaoh got wind of this --
337
973000
2000
法老聽說了
16:31
This is true, right off the Internet.
338
975000
2000
這千真萬確，我從網路上找的
16:33
The Pharaoh got -- (Laughter)
339
977000
3000
法老聽 （笑聲）
16:36
I swear to God.
340
980000
2000
我對神發誓
16:38
(Laughter)
341
982000
1000
（笑聲）
16:39
The Pharaoh got wind of this and wanted to taste it.
342
983000
4000
埃及法老聽說了，想要嘗嘗看
16:43
He tasted it and fell in love with it.
343
987000
2000
他嘗了，愛上了這個滋味
16:45
He started demanding it.
344
989000
1000
他開始要求廚房提供給他
16:46
And he didn't want it just in the fall, he wanted it all year round.
345
990000
3000
不止在秋天，他全年都要
16:49
And he demanded that the Jews supply enough for everyone.
346
993000
4000
他要求猶太人要讓每個人都能吃到
16:53
And the Jews, fearing for their life,
347
997000
2000
擔心自己生命安全的猶太人
16:55
had to come up with an ingenious idea,
348
999000
2000
想出了一個前所未有的點子
16:57
or at least try and satisfy the Pharaoh's wishes, of course.
349
1001000
4000
嘗試滿足埃及法老的要求
17:01
And they invented, what? Gavage.
350
1005000
2000
他們發明了 － 強餵法
17:03
They invented gavage in a great moment of fear for their lives,
351
1007000
8000
他們是在生命威脅下發明強餵法的
17:11
and they provided the Pharaoh with gavage liver,
352
1015000
3000
他們把餵肥了的肝獻給埃及法老
17:14
and the good stuff they kept for themselves.
353
1018000
2000
然後把好的部分留下給自己
17:16
Supposedly, anyway. I believe that one.
354
1020000
3000
應該是，至少我相信
17:19
That's the history of foie gras.
355
1023000
3000
這就是肥鵝肝的來源
17:22
And if you think about it,
356
1026000
1000
如果我們思考
17:23
it's the history of industrial agriculture.
357
1027000
5000
農業產業化的歷史
17:28
It's the history of what we eat today.
358
1032000
3000
就是我們今日食物的歷史
17:31
Most of what we eat today.
359
1035000
2000
今天我們所吃的食物大部分都是
17:33
Mega-farms, feed lots, chemical amendments,
360
1037000
4000
巨型農場、集體餵食、化學改良
17:37
long-distance travel, food processing.
361
1041000
3000
長距離的運送過程，工廠處理
17:40
All of it, our food system.
362
1044000
2000
全在我們的食物系統裏
17:42
That's also an insult to history.
363
1046000
4000
這也是對歷史的污辱
17:46
It's an insult to the basic laws of nature
364
1050000
4000
對自然法則的污辱
17:50
and of biology.
365
1054000
4000
以及對生物的污辱
17:54
Whether we're talking about beef cattle
366
1058000
3000
無論是肉牛
17:57
or we're talking about chickens,
367
1061000
3000
雞
18:00
or we're talking about broccoli or Brussels sprouts,
368
1064000
4000
花椰菜或是抱子甘藍
18:04
or in the case of this morning's New York Times, catfish --
369
1068000
4000
或是今天早上紐約時報的報導 － 鯰魚
18:09
which wholesale are going out of business.
370
1073000
4000
的批發商的經營失利
18:13
Whatever it is, it's a mindset that is reminiscent of General Motors.
371
1077000
5000
無論如何，這就像通用汽車
18:18
It's rooted in extraction.
372
1082000
3000
都是需索無度
18:21
Take more, sell more, waste more.
373
1085000
3000
拿取，販賣，浪費
18:24
And for the future it won't serve us.
374
1088000
4000
在未來這些都不再存在
18:28
Jonas Salk has a great quote.
375
1092000
2000
Jonas Saik 說過一金句
18:30
He said, "If all the insects disappeared,
376
1094000
2000
他說“如果所有昆蟲消失
18:32
life on Earth as we know it would disappear within 50 years.
377
1096000
7000
我們所知道的地球萬物在50年內會全部消失，
18:39
If human beings disappeared, life on Earth as we know it would flourish."
378
1103000
7000
如果人類消失，地球萬物會蓬勃生長。”
18:46
And he's right.
379
1110000
2000
他是對的
18:50
We need now to adopt a new conception of agriculture.
380
1114000
6000
我們需要接受一種新的農業概念
18:56
Really new.
381
1120000
1000
完全嶄新
18:57
One in which we stop treating the planet
382
1121000
3000
我們不能再把地球
19:00
as if it were some kind of business in liquidation.
383
1124000
4000
當作一個幾乎破產的公司
19:04
And stop degrading resources under the guise of
384
1128000
4000
停止利用便宜食物之名來
19:08
cheap food.
385
1132000
2000
浪費資源
19:10
We can start by looking to farmers like Eduardo.
386
1134000
4000
我們可以以 Eduardo 這樣的農夫為例子
19:14
Farmers that rely on nature
387
1138000
1000
農夫靠天吃飯
19:15
for solutions, for answers,
388
1139000
4000
靠自然提供答案
19:19
rather than imposing solutions on nature.
389
1143000
3000
與其勉強自然接受人為的解答
19:22
Listening as Janine Benyus,
390
1146000
2000
我最喜歡的作家和思想家
19:24
one of my favorite writers and thinkers about this topic says,
391
1148000
3000
Janine Benyus 這麼說
19:27
"Listening to nature's operating instructions."
392
1151000
3000
“遵照自然的使用說明”
19:30
That's what Eduardo does, and does so brilliantly.
393
1154000
3000
這就是 Eduardo 所達成的
19:33
And what he showed me and what he can show all of us, I think,
394
1157000
2000
他顯示給我們我們在場每個人，包括我，看的
19:35
is that the great thing for chefs, the great blessing for chefs,
395
1159000
7000
對廚師和那些關係食物和廚藝的人們
19:42
and for people that care about food and cooking,
396
1166000
7000
來說最好的事是
19:49
is that the most ecological choice for food
397
1173000
3000
最符合自然的食物選擇
19:52
is also the most ethical choice for food.
398
1176000
3000
也是最符合倫理道德的食物選擇
19:55
Whether we're talking about Brussels sprouts or foie gras.
399
1179000
3000
無論我們討論的是抱子甘藍還是肥鵝肝
19:58
And it's also almost always, and I haven't found an example otherwise,
400
1182000
4000
幾乎總是，我從未發現其他可能
20:02
but almost always, the most delicious choice.
401
1186000
5000
這也是最美味的選擇
20:07
That's serendipitous.
402
1191000
1000
渾然天成。
20:08
Thank you.
403
1192000
1000
謝謝。
20:09
(Applause)
404
1193000
6000
（掌聲）
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Dan Barber - ChefDan Barber is a chef and a scholar -- relentlessly pursuing the stories and reasons behind the foods we grow and eat.
Why you should listen
Dan Barber is the chef at New York's Blue Hill restaurant, and Blue Hill at Stone Barns in Westchester, where he practices a kind of close-to-the-land cooking married to agriculture and stewardship of the earth. As described on Chez Pim: "Stone Barns is only 45 minutes from Manhattan, but it might as well be a whole different universe. A model of self-sufficiency and environmental responsibility, Stone Barns is a working farm, ranch, and a three-Michelin-star-worthy restaurant." It's a vision of a new kind of food chain.
Barber's philosophy of food focuses on pleasure and thoughtful conservation -- on knowing where the food on your plate comes from and the unseen forces that drive what we eat. He's written on US agricultural policies, asking for a new vision that does not throw the food chain out of balance by subsidizing certain crops at the expense of more appropriate ones.
In 2009, Barber received the James Beard award for America's Outstanding Chef, and was named one of the world's most influential people in Time’s annual "Time 100" list. In 2014 he published The Third Plate: Field Notes on the Future of Food.
Dan Barber | Speaker | TED.com